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Johnny Appleseed

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SCHOOL Resident Tuition Non-Resident Tuition Average graduate indebtedness (Graduating Class)
UNTHSC/TCOM $13,078 $28,766 $139,337 (2014)
LECOM-PA $31,030 $31,030 $158,153 (2014)
LECOM-Brad. $29,480 $31,610 $163,080 (2014)
WCU-COM $39,800 $39,800 N/A
LUCOM $40,000 $40,000 N/A
UP-KYCOM $40,120 $40,120 $162,300 (2014)
CUSOM $40,600 $40,600 N/A
KCU-COM $42,450 $42,450 $254,000 (2013)
VCOM-Auburn $42,500 $42,500 N/A
VCOM-CC $42,500 $42,500 N/A
VCOM-VC $42,500 $42,500 $173,644 (2014)
ACOM $42,580 $42,580 N/A
OU-HCOM $30,530 $43,540 $186,857 (2014)
DMU-COM $44,042 $44,042 $218,227 (2014)
LMU-DCOM $44,140 $44,140 $234,974 (2014)
OSU-COM $22,835 $44,966 $185,484 (2014)
PCOM $45,036 $45,036 $181,968 (2014)
GA-PCOM $45,036 $45,036 $174,198 (2014)
TouroCOM-NY $45,850 $45,850 $209,529 (2014)
MU-COM $46,305 $46,305 N/A
BCOM $46,650 $46,650 N/A
ATSU-KCOM $48,124 $48,124 $268,800 (2013)
ATSU-SOMA $48,136 $48,136 $300,099 (2013)
RVUCOM $48,378 $48,378 $222,974 (2014)
TUCOM-CA $48,510 $48,510 N/A
PNWU-COM $49,000 $49,000 $253,963 (2014)
NSU-COM $44,945 $49,235 $224,685 (2014)
WVSOM $20,450 $50,200 $242,742 (2013)
TUNCOM $50,450 $50,450 $266,000 (2013)
UNECOM $51,660 $51,660 $233,000 (2014)
WesternU/COMP $52,215 $52,215 $258,919 (2014)
NYIT-COM $52,430 $52,430 $180,000 (2013)
AZCOM/MWU $58,030 $58,030 $288,190 (2014)
RowanSOM $36,360 $58,340 $173,281 (2014)
CCOM/MWU $59,826 $59,826 $270,816 (2014)
MSUCOM $41,724 $83,718 $202,022 (2013)

This is the tuition, and average graduate indebtedness of every DO school listed in the CIB. I sorted them by out of state tuition cost. I am just amazed! Going to LECOM could save you $80,000 compared to going to other schools like AZCOM! Is the education between these schools really that different? Is it really worth an extra $80,000.

Why is there such a disparity in tuition prices? Are some of these schools just getting über rich of medical students? I don't understand how there can be such a great discrepancy.

Another point I noticed was the outrageous debt of graduates in 2013 and 2014. Those numbers are not even representative of what medical students who are starting med school now will have. As tuition rises the debt will rise as well.

I'm not going into medicine for money so this isn't turning me away from continuing down this path, but it is definitely making me rethink if family practice is a reasonable option... you could be tied down to your debt the rest of your life. A specialist who makes $100,000 more a year just sounds more practical with that much debt.
 
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Johnny Appleseed

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Sorry format was strange, here is the excel file to view the tuition prices.
 

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Johnny Appleseed

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Med Tuition.PNG
 
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Wjldenver

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SCHOOL Resident Tuition Non-Resident Tuition Average graduate indebtedness (Graduating Class)
UNTHSC/TCOM $13,078 $28,766 $139,337 (2014)
LECOM-PA $31,030 $31,030 $158,153 (2014)
LECOM-Brad. $29,480 $31,610 $163,080 (2014)
WCU-COM $39,800 $39,800 N/A
LUCOM $40,000 $40,000 N/A
UP-KYCOM $40,120 $40,120 $162,300 (2014)
CUSOM $40,600 $40,600 N/A
KCU-COM $42,450 $42,450 $254,000 (2013)
VCOM-Auburn $42,500 $42,500 N/A
VCOM-CC $42,500 $42,500 N/A
VCOM-VC $42,500 $42,500 $173,644 (2014)
ACOM $42,580 $42,580 N/A
OU-HCOM $30,530 $43,540 $186,857 (2014)
DMU-COM $44,042 $44,042 $218,227 (2014)
LMU-DCOM $44,140 $44,140 $234,974 (2014)
OSU-COM $22,835 $44,966 $185,484 (2014)
PCOM $45,036 $45,036 $181,968 (2014)
GA-PCOM $45,036 $45,036 $174,198 (2014)
TouroCOM-NY $45,850 $45,850 $209,529 (2014)
MU-COM $46,305 $46,305 N/A
BCOM $46,650 $46,650 N/A
ATSU-KCOM $48,124 $48,124 $268,800 (2013)
ATSU-SOMA $48,136 $48,136 $300,099 (2013)
RVUCOM $48,378 $48,378 $222,974 (2014)
TUCOM-CA $48,510 $48,510 N/A
PNWU-COM $49,000 $49,000 $253,963 (2014)
NSU-COM $44,945 $49,235 $224,685 (2014)
WVSOM $20,450 $50,200 $242,742 (2013)
TUNCOM $50,450 $50,450 $266,000 (2013)
UNECOM $51,660 $51,660 $233,000 (2014)
WesternU/COMP $52,215 $52,215 $258,919 (2014)
NYIT-COM $52,430 $52,430 $180,000 (2013)
AZCOM/MWU $58,030 $58,030 $288,190 (2014)
RowanSOM $36,360 $58,340 $173,281 (2014)
CCOM/MWU $59,826 $59,826 $270,816 (2014)
MSUCOM $41,724 $83,718 $202,022 (2013)

This is the tuition, and average graduate indebtedness of every DO school listed in the CIB. I sorted them by out of state tuition cost. I am just amazed! Going to LECOM could save you $80,000 compared to going to other schools like AZCOM! Is the education between these schools really that different? Is it really worth an extra $80,000.

Why is there such a disparity in tuition prices? Are some of these schools just getting über rich of medical students? I don't understand how there can be such a great discrepancy.

Another point I noticed was the outrageous debt of graduates in 2013 and 2014. Those numbers are not even representative of what medical students who are starting med school now will have. As tuition rises the debt will rise as well.

I'm not going into medicine for money so this isn't turning me away from continuing down this path, but it is definitely making me rethink if family practice is a reasonable option... you could be tied down to your debt the rest of your life. A specialist who makes $100,000 more a year just sounds more practical with that much debt.

Somebody once said something on this forum which stuck with me. "DO is DO is DO. Go to the least expensive school in an area of the country which you like."
 
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Johnny Appleseed

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Wild that ATSU has broken $300k average indebtedness. Sad that it's probably only going up from here for the foreseeable future. :greedy:
Whats really sad is that is an average, there must be people with well above $300,000 of debt. Its one of my top choices..... but that is a scary number!
 
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SpartanWolverine

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Whats really sad is that is an average, there must be people with well above $300,000 of debt. Its one of my top choices..... but that is a scary number!
Yep, considering schools typically have ~20% of students that take on no debt, and less than half above 200k. So there's a good chunk well above 300k if the average is there!
 
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Dr. Death

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I'm no math major but the difference between AZCOM and LECOM is 27k per year x 4 years = 108k over the four years. And no the difference in education is not worth over 100,000$. I disagree that DO is DO is DO though. I think the state run schools and the big 5 are clearly a cut above the rest.
 
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Roxas

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This info neglects the interest accrued during school, so the "actual indebtedness" is misleading. My final bill will be about 100k more than what is listed
 
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Buzzlightyear33

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What can we do against this? The proliferation of DO schools hasn't brought tuition down.
 

VagabondKing

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DO is DO is DO as was mentioned above. I'm at LECOM and the 4 year indebtedness (factoring in compounding interest during residency) was a considerable component in choosing the school. Quality wise I consider the school excellent, we're very heavily clinically and boards oriented and I haven't noticed anything that a more expensive school ie NYCOM can offer that LECOM doesn't already.

Also consider cost of living, LECOM SH and Erie are in areas where rent is cheap, while NYCOM is in a relatively expensive area of Long Island - over time these costs add up quite a bit. [Sorry to be harping on NYCOM, it's a great school and several of my friends go there but its just so expensive]
 
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Johnny Appleseed

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DO is DO is DO as was mentioned above. I'm at LECOM and the 4 year indebtedness (factoring in compounding interest during residency) was a considerable component in choosing the school. Quality wise I consider the school excellent, we're very heavily clinically and boards oriented and I haven't noticed anything that a more expensive school ie NYCOM can offer that LECOM doesn't already.

Also consider cost of living, LECOM SH and Erie are in areas where rent is cheap, while NYCOM is in a relatively expensive area of Long Island - over time these costs add up quite a bit. [Sorry to be harping on NYCOM, it's a great school and several of my friends go there but its just so expensive]

LECOM sounds like a great option to me... I'm just nervous that I won't get in at any of these cheaper schools. I guess there's no way to ensure a spot anywhere.

Any advice on how to get in at LECOM? I want to tailor my app for them...
 
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IslandStyle808

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This info neglects the interest accrued during school, so the "actual indebtedness" is misleading. My final bill will be about 100k more than what is listed

You can't take that into account because people maybe using different loans with different interest rates.
 

VagabondKing

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LECOM sounds like a great option to me... I'm just nervous that I won't get in at any of these cheaper schools. I guess there's no way to ensure a spot anywhere.

Any advice on how to get in at LECOM? I want to tailor my app for them...

It's pretty much the same as any other DO school - get a decent MCAT, GPA, have extracurriculars, etc. The interview process is relatively laidback and our secondary is just a general demographics/campus preference selection sheet. Overall I'd say just aim to do well in your courses, MCAT, etc and you'll have a good shot at the school. Good luck!
 
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DrMikeP

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Yes loans and costs are ridiculous but there are solutions check out ibrinfo.org and you can be debt free in 10yrs if you work for a non profit 30hrs a week. Start in residency and that's only 7 more years. There are other options as well unless the gov screws them up.
 

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I'm no math major but the difference between AZCOM and LECOM is 27k per year x 4 years = 108k over the four years. And no the difference in education is not worth over 100,000$. I disagree that DO is DO is DO though. I think the state run schools and the big 5 are clearly a cut above the rest.

Is this just an opinion? Most all DO schools are pretty equal, the difference comes with residency options. Many schools also differ in board scores simply because the difference in how the curriculum is taught. The average acceptance offer per student is 1 offer per student, therefore leading me to believe that there is not a whole lot of roomy to be choosey so if it is a style that doesn't fit them well then they are obviously going to suffer. OSU, a state run school, just changed its curriculum and their own medical students are saying it has taken quite the negative impact on their board scores this past year.
 

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Is this just an opinion? Most all DO schools are pretty equal, the difference comes with residency options. Many schools also differ in board scores simply because the difference in how the curriculum is taught. The average acceptance offer per student is 1 offer per student, therefore leading me to believe that there is not a whole lot of roomy to be choosey so if it is a style that doesn't fit them well then they are obviously going to suffer. OSU, a state run school, just changed its curriculum and their own medical students are saying it has taken quite the negative impact on their board scores this past year.
All DO schools are not created equally and they each have their own pros and cons that a person should weigh when making their decision. However I think that the pros of the publics and big 5 are far more significant than the pros of the other DOs.

The public schools offer in-state tuition, have good research and rotations, are well connected in the state and beyond and have locations ranging from decent to excellent. The big 5 have all the same except for the in state tuition.

The other schools have one or more of the following problems (some have almost all these problems). Exorbitant tuition, for profit, new, shoddy rotations, unheard of in the medical field, not well connected, bad location, bad reputation, poor facilities and ties to fanatical religious organizations.
 

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All DO schools are not created equally and they each have their own pros and cons that a person should weigh when making their decision. However I think that the pros of the publics and big 5 are far more significant than the pros of the other DOs.

The public schools offer in-state tuition, have good research and rotations, are well connected in the state and beyond and have locations ranging from decent to excellent. The big 5 have all the same except for the in state tuition.

The other schools have one or more of the following problems (some have almost all these problems). Exorbitant tuition, for profit, new, shoddy rotations, unheard of in the medical field, not well connected, bad location, bad reputation, poor facilities and ties to fanatical religious organizations.

Well you have a nice way of generalizing things. I respectfully disagree and would have to argue that you are WAY wrong. There are very few public universities for starters--being FOR profit is not good OR bad..it is just a label and sometimes it helps to better serve the school with various situations, in-state tuition is good but I think you are forgetting that most DO schools offer a flat rate for in-state and out-of-state tuition due to their private status. Research? Osteopathic schools are known for training physicians, not researchers. This is not to say it is unimportant or irrelevant, but it is not a top priority and for the record there are many research opportunities for students who actually seek it out. You should be more specific if you are going to say these things, because it makes me think you are just throwing out opinions and labeling them as facts.
 

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All DO schools are not created equally and they each have their own pros and cons that a person should weigh when making their decision. However I think that the pros of the publics and big 5 are far more significant than the pros of the other DOs.

The public schools offer in-state tuition, have good research and rotations, are well connected in the state and beyond and have locations ranging from decent to excellent. The big 5 have all the same except for the in state tuition.

The other schools have one or more of the following problems (some have almost all these problems). Exorbitant tuition, for profit, new, shoddy rotations, unheard of in the medical field, not well connected, bad location, bad reputation, poor facilities and ties to fanatical religious organizations.

Funny I've heard some anti DO people say very similar things about ALL DO schools. You forgot diploma mills, teaching bogus medicine with omm, do's are fancy chiropractors, DOs dont learn the science behind medicine, etc etc etc

What one wants in a medical degree varies as much as what one wants to do with a degree. Some people want to rotate through a small community hospital. Not all of us are staying in state. There are tons of MD schools that originated out of religious institutions, many top major universities started that way. Not all people want to spend time doing research. A small town location has much to offer and small town docs are desperately needed. Big cities are not better but different. Trying to say certain schools are low quality because they don't offer what you like is opinion at best and potentially bigotry at worst.

Just my opinion as you have a right to yours and I hope you graduate from a school that makes you happy.
 
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DoctorKrieger

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OSU, a state run school, just changed its curriculum and their own medical students are saying it has taken quite the negative impact on their board scores this past year.

Please stop with this. The curriculum is now in it's third year and is modeled after some other DO schools' systems curricula (who have a reputation of having high level 1 scores). One year of less-than-desirable COMLEX results from the first class through a revised curriculum does not equal a trend.
 
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OrdinaryDO

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Please stop with this. The curriculum is now in it's third year and is modeled after some other DO schools' systems curricula (who have a reputation of having high level 1 scores). One year of less-than-desirable COMLEX results from the first class through a revised curriculum does not equal a trend.
I never said it was a trend and I am only stating what I have heard first hand from some of my very best friends. I grew up right down the road from OSU and have lived and worked in the area for 20 years. My information doesn't come from just rumors on the Internet or SDN, I hear this from actual friends who are attending OSU and sincerely feel this way. While your opinion may differ, it is just that, an opinion.
 

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I never said it was a trend and I am only stating what I have heard first hand from some of my very best friends. I grew up right down the road from OSU and have lived and worked in the area for 20 years. My information doesn't come from just rumors on the Internet or SDN, I hear this from actual friends who are attending OSU and sincerely feel this way. While your opinion may differ, it is just that, an opinion.

Sorry, but I can't help noticing, but when others were mentioning how BCOM is also new, and going through an untested curriculum which may be tough for the first couple of classes, you also defended the fact that since BCOM is modeling theirs after a proven curriculum and that it would be fine, because that curriculum has been "proven to produce the highest board scores."

I believe OSU is doing the same, but according to you, that it has made students get less than satisfactory scores...

I'm sorry to point this out, but it DOES sound a little bit hypocritical. We were even pointing out that any new curriculum that is being introduced, old/established or new schools, will be tough for those new classes going through it first.
 
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OrdinaryDO

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Sorry, but I can't help noticing, but when others were mentioning how BCOM is also new, and going through an untested curriculum which would be tough for the first couple of classes, you also defended the fact that since BCOM is modeling theirs after a proven curriculum that it would be fine.
Lol I see where this is going and it has nothing to do with this conversation. What I am saying is pertaining to something that has already happened and purely based on what I have heard from the students who are going through the curriculum change at this particular school. I'm not sure why you are bringing up my reasoning for BCOMs educational potential. What exactly are you trying to say?
 
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mathnerd88

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Lol I see where this is going and it has nothing to do with this conversation. What I am saying is pertaining to something that has already happened and purely based on what I have heard from the students who are going through the curriculum change at this particular school. I'm not sure why you are bringing up my reasoning for BCOMs educational potential. What exactly are you trying to say?

Well, it does seem a little hypocritical, IMHO. I'm honestly not trying to be rude here.

I understand there will be some bias, but we're all acknowledging the same thing here...Every school, new or old, will go through this when a curriculum changes or introducing a new one.
 
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OrdinaryDO

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Well, it does seem a little hypocritical, IMHO. I'm honestly not trying to be rude here.
It is in no way hypocritical. My conversation pertaining to BCOM for which you are citing was in response to your post I believe, but I was making a point that the curriculum is not entirely new, it is being modeled almost exactly off of RVU'S curriculum. The purpose for that statement was to respond to those who were saying new schools are inevitably going to struggle because of the new curriculum, and for which I responded that the curriculum is not new it has been in the works at a top university for quite some time with great success. What I am saying HERE is that public universities are not as far above the margin as that guy liked to say. Me citing OSU was just an example of why I think that is not true. So, once again, I don't know what you are trying to say by bringing up that totally unrelated topic from BCOM's thread, because it doesn't fit here in any way whatsoever.
 

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It is in no way hypocritical. My conversation pertaining to BCOM for which you are citing was in response to your post I believe, but I was making a point that the curriculum is not entirely new, it is being modeled almost exactly off of RVU'S curriculum. The purpose for that statement was to respond to those who were saying new schools are inevitably going to struggle because of the new curriculum, and for which I responded that the curriculum is not new it has been in the works at a top university for quite some time with great success. What I am saying HERE is that public universities are not as far above the margin as that guy liked to say. Me citing OSU was just an example of why I think that is not true. So, once again, I don't know what you are trying to say by bringing up that totally unrelated topic from BCOM's thread, because it doesn't fit here in any way whatsoever.

I understand your point. Some poster above just said OSU is modeling their curriculum after some DO schools with great success in their board scores, and you've just acknowledged that OSU students have some trouble with their boards. However, you seem to fail to acknowledge that this could be a potential problem even for BCOM, when what OSU is experiencing happens at most or all schools, old or new. I won't push this any further because you're right, it isn't contributing to this thread.

However, I do think there is a difference between DO schools, and it is up to an individual to select which school is best for him/her. All students from DO schools have a potential to succeed, but some schools will make it easier for students to succeed over others and help them get where they want to go. Some schools will offer many more research opportunities, which helps students get into more competitive residencies. Again, this is all IMO, and I'm not going to make this into a war between specific schools.
 
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OrdinaryDO

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I understand your point. Some poster above just said OSU is modeling their curriculum after some DO schools with great success in their board scores, and you've just acknowledged that OSU students have some trouble with their boards. However, you seem to fail to acknowledge that this could be a potential problem even for BCOM, when what OSU is experiencing happens at most or all schools, old or new. I won't push this any further because you're right, it isn't contributing to this thread.

However, I do think there is a difference between DO schools, and it is up to an individual to select which school is best for him/her. All students from DO schools have a potential to succeed, but some schools will make it easier for students to succeed over others and help them get where they want to go. Again, this is all IMO, and I'm not going to make this into a war between specific schools.

I never failed to acknowledge any of that, but there is no need to bring this up here all it did was take up space. Everything on this forum is an opinion, to each their own. You basically reiterated my points anyway, so no arguments there.
 

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All I know is that I'll be ballin on a budget for a long time
 
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Buzzlightyear33

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Is it possible medicine will become like pharmacy and dentistry where there's too many graduates and too few job openings?
 

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Is it possible medicine will become like pharmacy and dentistry where there's too many graduates and too few job openings?
It is possible and would have already happened if residency programs had expanded as fast as schools. But as long as residencies are a choke point there will be a cap on new physicians per year. If tomorrow 10,000 new residency slots opened all hell would break loose, all FMG and IMG would get residencies and we would be as common as lawyers.
 
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Dr. Death

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Well you have a nice way of generalizing things. I respectfully disagree and would have to argue that you are WAY wrong. There are very few public universities for starters--being FOR profit is not good OR bad..it is just a label and sometimes it helps to better serve the school with various situations, in-state tuition is good but I think you are forgetting that most DO schools offer a flat rate for in-state and out-of-state tuition due to their private status. Research? Osteopathic schools are known for training physicians, not researchers. This is not to say it is unimportant or irrelevant, but it is not a top priority and for the record there are many research opportunities for students who actually seek it out. You should be more specific if you are going to say these things, because it makes me think you are just throwing out opinions and labeling them as facts.

Funny I've heard some anti DO people say very similar things about ALL DO schools. You forgot diploma mills, teaching bogus medicine with omm, do's are fancy chiropractors, DOs dont learn the science behind medicine, etc etc etc

What one wants in a medical degree varies as much as what one wants to do with a degree. Some people want to rotate through a small community hospital. Not all of us are staying in state. There are tons of MD schools that originated out of religious institutions, many top major universities started that way. Not all people want to spend time doing research. A small town location has much to offer and small town docs are desperately needed. Big cities are not better but different. Trying to say certain schools are low quality because they don't offer what you like is opinion at best and potentially bigotry at worst.

Just my opinion as you have a right to yours and I hope you graduate from a school that makes you happy.

I think you guys misinterpreted the second part of my message. I was saying each school has at least one of these problems and the problems vary in degree. Fact is that if you want a better residency and better rotations, if you want to do research, if you want to attend a reputable school you want one of the upper tier DO schools. If none of that matters to you (at least one of those should matter to everyone) then go to LUCOM. There is no way that DO is DO is DO. That was my original argument and neither of you addressed that. While not everyone wants to do research, live within 3 hours of a city and have great rotations where you don't have to bounce around every month of third and fourth year, these things are more readily available at the higher tier schools. I'm not saying the gap is huge between the tiers and each person has different things they value in a school but overall DO is not DO is not DO
 
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mathnerd88

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I think you guys misinterpreted the second part of my message. I was saying each school has at least one of these problems and the problems vary in degree. Fact is that if you want a better residency and better rotations, if you want to do research, if you want to attend a reputable school you want one of the upper tier DO schools. If none of that matters to you (at least one of those should matter to everyone) then go to LUCOM. There is no way that DO is DO is DO. That was my original argument and neither of you addressed that. While not everyone wants to do research, live within 3 hours of a city and have great rotations where you don't have to bounce around every month of third and fourth year, these things are more readily available at the higher tier schools. I'm not saying the gap is huge between the tiers and each person has different things they value in a school but overall DO is not DO is not DO

I completely agree with this guy. There are differences between DO schools. It just depends on the student what he/she wants out of her DO education. For me, research is important, so my options are limited to those who have more research opportunities available. If I had just wanted to become a physician and treat patients irregardless of where I wanted to be for residency, then any DO school would suffice.

Still, there is so much variability between clinical rotations in schools that it would be a safe bet to go to a school where you feel like you're going to be most likely to practice medicine for the long term. There's a reason why there's a lot more applicants to some schools than others, and it isn't just due to location alone. There are so many factors that Dr. Death listed, and it is in everyone's best interest to go to a DO school that offers the most opportunities, and least sacrifices/risks/inconveniences.

Any DO applicant with multiple acceptances would choose the path of least resistance because in his/her mind, there really is a tier system made up that is markedly different than other DO applicants (which is why it is really difficult to make a ranking system for DO schools.) The old established/state schools are a no brainer, but for the rest, it is kind of up in the air.
 
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OrdinaryDO

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Fact is it is all an opinion. So let's move on. What is it with America and always wanting to RANK things.
 

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@O Grady I'm VERY interested to see what the actual indebtedness is for those of us that aren't getting school paid for. I'm sure most are over 300k. Not sure how anyone will leave Midwestern under 400k with that unethical tuition.
 
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cliquesh

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I completely agree with this guy. There are differences between DO schools. It just depends on the student what he/she wants out of her DO education. For me, research is important, so my options are limited to those who have more research opportunities available. If I had just wanted to become a physician and treat patients irregardless of where I wanted to be for residency, then any DO school would suffice.

Still, there is so much variability between clinical rotations in schools that it would be a safe bet to go to a school where you feel like you're going to be most likely to practice medicine for the long term. There's a reason why there's a lot more applicants to some schools than others, and it isn't just due to location alone. There are so many factors that Dr. Death listed, and it is in everyone's best interest to go to a DO school that offers the most opportunities, and least sacrifices/risks/inconveniences.

Any DO applicant with multiple acceptances would choose the path of least resistance because in his/her mind, there really is a tier system made up that is markedly different than other DO applicants (which is why it is really difficult to make a ranking system for DO schools.) The old established/state schools are a no brainer, but for the rest, it is kind of up in the air.

Osteopathic medical graduates are, in general, all treated the same in the acgme match. Some program directors may be familiar with some osteopathic medical schools, but not others. Some program directors may be completely clueless. I had one program director ask me recently, "I know RVU is considered a good DO school, but is TCOM any good?" I was actually kind of shocked when they asked me this.

Anyway, some DO schools are probably objectively better than others, but I don't think it matters too much in the match process. Additionally, I feel that your residency training is far more important than your medical school education, especially considering how everything is becoming so specialized.
 
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FBurnaby

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It's also ironic that the highest debt (on this list at least) is the school that pushes underserved primary care the most.
 
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Roxas

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@O Grady I'm VERY interested to see what the actual indebtedness is for those of us that aren't getting school paid for. I'm sure most are over 300k. Not sure how anyone will leave Midwestern under 400k with that unethical tuition.
I have a spreadsheet with mine already calculated out. Debt upon graduation will be ~330k. While the following will obviously not be the case, no payments made during 4 years of residency would yield ~475k upon finishing. Man I hope this river of **** I'm swimming through right now is worth it.
 
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mathnerd88

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Osteopathic medical graduates are, in general, all treated the same in the acgme match. Some program directors may be familiar with some osteopathic medical schools, but not others. Some program directors may be completely clueless. I had one program director ask me recently, "I know RVU is considered a good DO school, but is TCOM any good?" I was actually kind of shocked when they asked me this.

Anyway, some DO schools are probably objectively better than others, but I don't think it matters too much in the match process. Additionally, I feel that your residency training is far more important than your medical school education, especially considering how everything is becoming so specialized.

This is true, but that's why I mentioned it is also best to go to a school where you feel like you will practice or go to residency, because they have an establishment in that surrounding area. If you're looking to match further away, then yes, all DO applicants will be treated the same.

At my interview with an established state school, I mentioned other schools I was accepted to, they didn't know any of them except CCOM and PCOM.
 

mathnerd88

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I have a spreadsheet with mine already calculated out. Debt upon graduation will be ~330k. While the following will obviously not be the case, no payments made during 4 years of residency would yield ~475k upon finishing. Man I hope this river of **** I'm swimming through right now is worth it.

You'll be fine as long as you pay back as early as possible. It would be even better if your spouse or SO would help too. It sucks, because you're going to be thinking about a family by the time you graduate and in residency, and buying a house/car/raising kids...

Well, people manage, but it is a lot of debt.
 

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LECOM sounds like a great option to me... I'm just nervous that I won't get in at any of these cheaper schools. I guess there's no way to ensure a spot anywhere.

Any advice on how to get in at LECOM? I want to tailor my app for them...

I am planning on doing the LECOM post bacc in order to have a great shot to get into LECOM med. I'm sure my stats could get me in some other school but I am just going for the cheapest option that will make me a practicing physician. Id rather just focus on one school than pay thousands of dollars applying and travelling to interview.
 

OrdinaryDO

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This is true, but that's why I mentioned it is also best to go to a school where you feel like you will practice or go to residency, because they have an establishment in that surrounding area. If you're looking to match further away, then yes, all DO applicants will be treated the same.

At my interview with an established state school, I mentioned other schools I was accepted to, they didn't know any of them except CCOM and PCOM.

so, which schools have you been accepted to? Just curious..
 

mathnerd88

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so, which schools have you been accepted to? Just curious..

I don't think that contributes to this thread, but I have been accepted to all the schools I interviewed at, and declined an interview invite. I will tell you though, that PCOM has a graduate who is a surgical resident at one of the top Boston area hospitals. I believe the name does carry, because traditionally DO's are not accepted in Boston area hospitals for residency, and there are no DO schools nearby, and the nearest DO school UNECOM is two states over.

I'm a firm believer that PCOM has connections that are spread far and wide, and looking at their match list is extremely impressive. I also come from a family of physicians, one of them being an attending at the top hospital in the US. (The hospital alternates with JHU as #1 in the US.) There is a clear bias there against DO's.

Even the DO I shadowed only recommended that I either go to an established school with good rotations like PCOM, CCOM, NYCOM or a state school like UNECOM, MSUCOM, RowanSOM, KCUMB, etc. I told her that LECOM was super cheap, and she told me don't go there because a lot of students hated going there because of the strict rules. She also mentioned that CCOM was not worth the tuition, and to go to a cheap established school. When I mentioned CUSOM, she gave me a blank stare and asked what was that? I loved CUSOM's school and resources and they even offered me a scholarship which would make tuition $30k. However, knowing that it may be an uphill battle if I wanted to go to residency back in the Northeast, I decided to go elsewhere to a more expensive in state school.

Believe it or not, there is not necessarily a "ranking" system for DO's, but the established name does take you far. Many residency programs have been touched by a graduate from an established school, and they're more willing to take that graduate over another from a new name school they've never heard of. That's why where you go to medical school has an impact, however small or big, on where you will go for residency. Obviously board scores are extremely important, but connections are also just as important. I can give anecdotal evidence where I know people with subpar stats get into top medical schools because of someone they knew personally. These connections are stronger at more established schools. This goes back to my main point, is that it is somewhat important to go to a school in an area where you're happy also doing residency at, because the medical school will have connections within the surrounding area with those residency program directors.
 
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Mavs88

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Is it possible medicine will become like pharmacy and dentistry where there's too many graduates and too few job openings?
Well there will be PLENTY of job openings in medicine, it's just that they will be in primary care.
 

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I am planning on doing the LECOM post bacc in order to have a great shot to get into LECOM med. I'm sure my stats could get me in some other school but I am just going for the cheapest option that will make me a practicing physician. Id rather just focus on one school than pay thousands of dollars applying and travelling to interview.
Why don't you do a post-bac at an MD school? And seriously, don't put all your eggs in one basket. Cost is a big thing but that's only one part of it.
 

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Yes loans and costs are ridiculous but there are solutions check out ibrinfo.org and you can be debt free in 10yrs if you work for a non profit 30hrs a week. Start in residency and that's only 7 more years. There are other options as well unless the gov screws them up.

I would not rely on PSLF for the following reasons.

1) Nobody has actually had their debt forgiven. This program wasnt meant for doctors. The second a doctor applies(you have to apply to have your debt forgiven after making the payments) there will be public outrage and they will do everything legal to RETROACTIVELY change it so it doesnt apply to high earners. I dont know if it is legally possible but if it is they will do it. History has shown this. Some student loans used to be dischargeable in bankruptcy. There was outrage over a very small percentage of Doctors and lawyers discharging their loans and going on to enjoy high paying careers. This was retroactively revoked. So even if you took the loan when it was possible to discharge in bankruptcy, met all the requirements and were set to start the process for discharging it the next day, too bad **** you pay up.

2) There have already been attempts to cap the forgiveness amount at like 50,000

3) If you make IBR type payments, the interest will cause the principle to sky rocket, so when they retroactively close this door for you 8 years into your loan, you will be left with a million+ in debt.
 

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I don't think that contributes to this thread, but I have been accepted to all the schools I interviewed at, and declined an interview invite. I will tell you though, that PCOM has a graduate who is a surgical resident at one of the top Boston area hospitals. I believe the name does carry, because traditionally DO's are not accepted in Boston area hospitals for residency, and there are no DO schools nearby, and the nearest DO school UNECOM is two states over.

I'm a firm believer that PCOM has connections that are spread far and wide, and looking at their match list is extremely impressive. I also come from a family of physicians, one of them being an attending at the top hospital in the US. (The hospital alternates with JHU as #1 in the US.) There is a clear bias there against DO's.

Even the DO I shadowed only recommended that I either go to an established school with good rotations like PCOM, CCOM, NYCOM or a state school like UNECOM, MSUCOM, RowanSOM, KCUMB, etc. I told her that LECOM was super cheap, and she told me don't go there because a lot of students hated going there because of the strict rules. She also mentioned that CCOM was not worth the tuition, and to go to a cheap established school. When I mentioned CUSOM, she gave me a blank stare and asked what was that? I loved CUSOM's school and resources and they even offered me a scholarship which would make tuition $30k. However, knowing that it may be an uphill battle if I wanted to go to residency back in the Northeast, I decided to go elsewhere to a more expensive in state school.

Believe it or not, there is not necessarily a "ranking" system for DO's, but the established name does take you far. Many residency programs have been touched by a graduate from an established school, and they're more willing to take that graduate over another from a new name school they've never heard of. That's why where you go to medical school has an impact, however small or big, on where you will go for residency. Obviously board scores are extremely important, but connections are also just as important. I can give anecdotal evidence where I know people with subpar stats get into top medical schools because of someone they knew personally. These connections are stronger at more established schools. This goes back to my main point, is that it is somewhat important to go to a school in an area where you're happy also doing residency at, because the medical school will have connections within the surrounding area with those residency program directors.
Well, Partners/HMS isn't the only gig in town. Tufts and BU often have a couple DOs in their programs -- and UNECOM is the most common from what I've seen. It may be two states away, but it's under two hours from Boston. Anyhow, I do definitely agree that Boston is traditionally not too friendly to DOs, but if you're a very strong candidate you can make it to the top. Yes, being at a "known" DO school will also help. When people say Boston is anti-DO they need to consider it's a very research-heavy town, and most people at DO schools do not have a deep research background. So of course they're going to have a difficult time. Some of my professors were residents/fellows/attendings at Duke, MGH, etc. and the common thread between them was a lot of research activity.

So, I personally feel that people who want to compete for good programs need to know what it takes to get into those programs. Usually that means going to a school where you can do research, build up relationships and connections in the places you want to, and perform well academically. Some schools may make that easier than others.
 

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Obviously there are differences between DO schools, some are more well connected and have more research opportunities... But cost of tuition doesn't necessarily correlate with a good school right?

That's what I don't understand LECOM (I'll use them as the example because their tuition is so cheap) is much cheaper a year than most schools and they still seem to have a good match every year.

I'll bet if you narrowed the DO schools down to only the ones you think are well connected and have more opportunities and then looked at their tuition you would still have a massive range. I don't understand why these astronomical tuitions even exist...
 
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