Does Scribing = Patient Contact?

[Grant94]

Is scribing considered patient contact? Do Medical Schools place premiums/look highly upon applicants with significant scribing experience (1 year~)?

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[starspells]

A recent post on scribing: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/non-clinical-hospital-volunteering.1194039/#post-17641899

I think if scribing allows you to talk to patients then yes, it would be looked at favorably.

 

[The Buff OP]

A recent post on scribing: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/non-clinical-hospital-volunteering.1194039/#post-17641899

I think if scribing allows you to talk to patients then yes, it would be looked at favorably.

When we bring in patients (EMS), I see that most scribes are in the back corner just typing away, but don't really ever touch or talk to the patient. However, I think they can get a learning experience if they ask the doctor questions about the cases they see.

 

[hopefulERdoc251]

Even if it doesn't allow you to talk to patients, its still a significant clinical experience. If you choose, you are actively involving yourself in cases, learning the material and essentially dissecting the physician's thought process as to why they are doing a certain test. That critical thinking + the sheer exposure of medical terminology/basic knowledge definitely works in your favor when it comes to application time. You also learn the inner workings of the healthcare system. I work in a community hospital ER and we see everything from inner city to rural farmland patients. Seeing the problems all those populations face is definitely eye opening and can only help and allow you to become a better future physician. One of the most important things though is that you get to see what "good" and "bad" doctoring is from an empathy aspect. You'll see doctors treat their patients like ****, and you'll see others treat their patients with the utmost respect and truly empathize with them. Sure that's not the same as directly talking to them, but you'd find it hard to find an experience that encompasses all those aspects of medicine.

 

[starspells]

I didn't say just because you didn't talk to them that it's not valuable! Just that it would likely be ideal if you did get to talk to them.

 

[hopefulERdoc251]

Oh ahha absolutely! But as premed it's impossible to get a job that'll do that other than EMT/CNA/Tech/Hospice (and even then, hospice is volunteering)

 

[7331poas]

A recent post on scribing: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/non-clinical-hospital-volunteering.1194039/#post-17641899

I think if scribing allows you to talk to patients then yes, it would be looked at favorably.

I dont see how thats the test. Even if you arent talking about hte patients it may still be an even better experience than patient care because you get a direct look at charting and the healthcare system.

 

[P0ke]

Is scribing considered patient contact? Do Medical Schools place premiums/look highly upon applicants with significant scribing experience (1 year~)?

Scribing is usually seen as the gold-standard for clinical experience. You're doing a part of the doctor's job.

 

[freak7]

Can you smell the patient?

 

[LizzyM]

Touching the patient or talking to the patient is not required for something to be a clinical experience. But @freak7 is onto something...

 

[mehc012]

When we bring in patients (EMS), I see that most scribes are in the back corner just typing away, but don't really ever touch or talk to the patient. However, I think they can get a learning experience if they ask the doctor questions about the cases they see.

Very program-specific. I talked to every patient we saw. In the patient visit, I'd often be in the room first (if my doc said 'meet me in Room x), or stay behind/head back (if they'd asked for water or a blanket or a pillow while we were in there). One of my docs used to send me in ahead of time on purpose because he said the patients were often in a better mood by the time he got there (I had the time to chat non-medical).
Beyond that, our docs not only introduced us to every patient, but often spoke directly to us during patient encounters, more like 'we' were seeing the patient even though obviously only they were. Thus, patients also tended to pay attention to me and interact with me directly, both during the actual visit and for the rest of their stay. My station was closer to the patient rooms, and they recognized me, so patients and families would typically speak to me first if they needed something, and I would go speak to their doctor or nurse as appropriate for the inquiry.
The docs would also send me in for follow-up Qs, to give them updates, etc. So I'd be the one sticking my head back in the room to ask "sorry to bother you again, but have you eaten in the past 8hrs?" or whatever, or track down their PCP's info, or simply tell them "the doctor will give you more details and answer any questions you have shortly, but we know you're anxious, so she just wanted to let you know that the scans came back and don't show any signs of (whatever they talked about earlier), so you're going to be able to go home tonight).

So for the OP: I can't think of any scribing situation which doesn't count as clinical contact. However, the amount of direct patient interaction you will have will very much depend on where you work and with whom.

 

[More_Medz]

As a veteran medical scribe, I do not directly talk to or interact with patients. However, you will find with a lot of the pre-med typical jobs that include clinical experience such as CNA, ER tech, EMS, etc.. while providing you with direct experience in dealing with patients they don't directly correlate to what a physician actually does.

As a medical scribe, you get to learn everything involving obtaining a relevant history, searching past medial records and drawing up relevant information to their pertinent complaint, recording relevant physical exam findings, and finally recording and simultaneously learning about how all of this information plays a part in formulating the assessment and plan of the patient's treatment. In essence, it allows you to understand why the physicians ask the questions they do, think about the things they do, and do the things that they do. You learn about patient care from arrival to discharge.

I personally don't get to hung up on actual patient contact because, doing so in a role that is relevant to what a physician does, is only possible through going to medial school. Now, don't get me wrong, the CNAs, ER techs, nurse, etc.. are great and helpful but they don't correlate and are not the same to what a physician does.

Hope this helps!

 

[LizzyM]

There are three things that adcoms are looking for in this regard: that you are someone who has acted on an interest in helping those in need, particularly the most downtrodden or needy in our society, that you have had face-to-face experience with the sick and/or injured in their homes or in a clinical setting, and that you are familiar with the role of the physician in the care of the patient and within the health care team. Most successful applicants can point to several experiences that, in combination, showed that the student had met these expectations in preparation for the application cycle.

 

[The Buff OP]

Very program-specific. I talked to every patient we saw. In the patient visit, I'd often be in the room first (if my doc said 'meet me in Room x), or stay behind/head back (if they'd asked for water or a blanket or a pillow while we were in there). One of my docs used to send me in ahead of time on purpose because he said the patients were often in a better mood by the time he got there (I had the time to chat non-medical).
Beyond that, our docs not only introduced us to every patient, but often spoke directly to us during patient encounters, more like 'we' were seeing the patient even though obviously only they were. Thus, patients also tended to pay attention to me and interact with me directly, both during the actual visit and for the rest of their stay. My station was closer to the patient rooms, and they recognized me, so patients and families would typically speak to me first if they needed something, and I would go speak to their doctor or nurse as appropriate for the inquiry.
The docs would also send me in for follow-up Qs, to give them updates, etc. So I'd be the one sticking my head back in the room to ask "sorry to bother you again, but have you eaten in the past 8hrs?" or whatever, or track down their PCP's info, or simply tell them "the doctor will give you more details and answer any questions you have shortly, but we know you're anxious, so she just wanted to let you know that the scans came back and don't show any signs of (whatever they talked about earlier), so you're going to be able to go home tonight).

So for the OP: I can't think of any scribing situation which doesn't count as clinical contact. However, the amount of direct patient interaction you will have will very much depend on where you work and with whom.

Sounds like you had wonderful experience.

 

[Chromium Surfer]

There are three things that adcoms are looking for in this regard: that you are someone who has acted on an interest in helping those in need, particularly the most downtrodden or needy in our society, that you have had face-to-face experience with the sick and/or injured in their homes or in a clinical setting, and that you are familiar with the role of the physician in the care of the patient and within the health care team. Most successful applicants can point to several experiences that, in combination, showed that the student had met these expectations in preparation for the application cycle.

Hello, I had a quick question. In regards to clinical volunteering I currently volunteer at a hospice. This has been a very rewarding experience and I have been able to connect with patients as well as their families. However the only health care professionals I interact with are nurses and CNA's.

I do have a shadowing experience that allows me to shadow a variety of doctors at a well respected medial center that is known nationally.

With that in mind is it okay that the hospice volunteering doesn't afford me the opportunity to see a doctor?

Thank you for your time!

 

[LizzyM]

Hello, I had a quick question. In regards to clinical volunteering I currently volunteer at a hospice. This has been a very rewarding experience and I have been able to connect with patients as well as their families. However the only health care professionals I interact with are nurses and CNA's.

I do have a shadowing experience that allows me to shadow a variety of doctors at a well respected medial center that is known nationally.

With that in mind is it okay that the hospice volunteering doesn't afford me the opportunity to see a doctor?

Thank you for your time!

Critical thinking skills, my friend. Have you helped the needy in society? Have you had face-to-face interactions with patients? Have you had the opportunity to see what physicians do?

Do not expect one experience to meet all three but be strategic in choosing activities so that within your 15 experiences, a combination of your activities meet these expectations.

 

[Chromium Surfer]

Critical thinking skills, my friend. Have you helped the needy in society? Have you had face-to-face interactions with patients? Have you had the opportunity to see what physicians do?

Do not expect one experience to meet all three but be strategic in choosing activities so that within your 15 experiences, a combination of your activities meet these expectations.

Thank you very much for your candid reply! It would be asinine to assume that one event has to fulfill all these parameters. Sometimes in my push towards medical school I abandon logical thought

 

[cheshirecatxox]

Touching the patient or talking to the patient is not required for something to be a clinical experience. But @freak7 is onto something...

I have a secondary short answer (350 characters) which asks, What is your most meaningful clinical experience, involving direct patient contact?"
I am having difficulty choosing between writing about being a scribe or about being a caregiver.
For the past 3 years I have scribed in a ED in Inglewood which serves a diverse population, including the socioeconomically disadvantaged. This has allowed me " face-to-face experience with the sick and/or injured in their homes or in a clinical setting, and [familiarity] with the role of the physician in the care of the patient and within the health care team." It has been an invaluable experience, as other authors above explained.
On the other hand, I have also been a caregiver for my disabled mother for the past 2.5 years. This, of course, has personal meaning, and more direct contact, but I am unsure whether it is an appropriate answer to the question.

Do you, or does anyone, have advice on this matter?

 

[jtd2081]

I have a secondary short answer (350 characters) which asks, What is your most meaningful clinical experience, involving direct patient contact?"
I am having difficulty choosing between writing about being a scribe or about being a caregiver.
For the past 3 years I have scribed in a ED in Inglewood which serves a diverse population, including the socioeconomically disadvantaged. This has allowed me " face-to-face experience with the sick and/or injured in their homes or in a clinical setting, and [familiarity] with the role of the physician in the care of the patient and within the health care team." It has been an invaluable experience, as other authors above explained.
On the other hand, I have also been a caregiver for my disabled mother for the past 2.5 years. This, of course, has personal meaning, and more direct contact, but I am unsure whether it is an appropriate answer to the question.

Do you, or does anyone, have advice on this matter?

Which one is more meaningful to you? Which has increased your desire to become a physician?

 

[Crayola227]

I lean toward the stuff with your mom, but it depends on how you write it, and I'm with the above poster as far as their insights