Donuts and Doughnuts WW - Game Thread

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BobLoblaw78 said:
I’m

yeah right. Who are you trying to convince? Are we pretending that Mexico doesn’t count
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I've never been to Mexico? You're not referencing a game, are you? Because that's what I use AM for.

If you'd said France, then you might have a case.
 
WildZoo said:
Ok, my point was that the only scenario where I could see a wolf not self prezzing there is if they were both wolves. It wasn't to take away from your point (I wasn't aware you had one, you had just asked the question), it was to give my opinion.
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I’ve heard you (I think) say there’s pretty much nothing outside Mel’s wolf range, does that not include not self-prezzing on a villager?
 
Viscernable said:
I’m still not comfortable reading chaos as town after seeing what he’s capable of as wolf but the argument style reminds me strongly of how he’s villaged and much less of his wolfing last game
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The style change is dramatic enough that it's got me thinking he's village, but I agree with you about the comfort level.
 
cubsrule4e said:
Psssst. Vote dubz
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Cubs is weirding me out significantly (flying under the radar it feels, pushing Dubz hard and I haven’t seen reasoning tho perhaps I missed it) but this doesn’t sound like the wolf cubs I saw in madagascar or SK cubs. Thoughts from the class on whether this is more in his village or wolf range? I think the trouble I’m having is that I’m used to seeing how he plays when under pressure.
 
Viscernable said:
Cubs is weirding me out significantly (flying under the radar it feels, pushing Dubz hard and I haven’t seen reasoning tho perhaps I missed it) but this doesn’t sound like the wolf cubs I saw in madagascar or SK cubs. Thoughts from the class on whether this is more in his village or wolf range? I think the trouble I’m having is that I’m used to seeing how he plays when under pressure.
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cubs is in my neutrals, but I think he'd look good with a Chaos wolf flip.
 
Sorry I’ve been MIA. The vote on cray is interesting, I think she hasn’t been rocking the boat as much as she usually does.
 
Viscernable said:
Cubs is weirding me out significantly (flying under the radar it feels, pushing Dubz hard and I haven’t seen reasoning tho perhaps I missed it) but this doesn’t sound like the wolf cubs I saw in madagascar or SK cubs. Thoughts from the class on whether this is more in his village or wolf range? I think the trouble I’m having is that I’m used to seeing how he plays when under pressure.
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A whole post devoted to me? How sweet. Under the radar? I’ve been talking all day. And my vote for dubz was clearly substantiated by Mel.
 
mkg323 said:
Sorry I’ve been MIA. The vote on cray is interesting, I think she hasn’t been rocking the boat as much as she usually does.
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I don’t have any real wolf reads yet and don’t feel great about any of the current wagons but I do agree with this. It’s harder to say since in the last few games where she’s had less time her style has definitely been different, but I still haven’t got any village cray feelings that I usually do and I feel some possible hesitancy to make enemies or put out interactions
 
Viscernable said:
I don’t have any real wolf reads yet and don’t feel great about any of the current wagons but I do agree with this. It’s harder to say since in the last few games where she’s had less time her style has definitely been different, but I still haven’t got any village cray feelings that I usually do and I feel some possible hesitancy to make enemies or put out interactions
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Are you going to vote?
 
Viscernable said:
I don’t have any real wolf reads yet and don’t feel great about any of the current wagons but I do agree with this. It’s harder to say since in the last few games where she’s had less time her style has definitely been different, but I still haven’t got any village cray feelings that I usually do and I feel some possible hesitancy to make enemies or put out interactions
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This flailing around is not a good look on you.
 
Animal Midwife said:
Updated thoughts on the people you brought up earlier today?
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Don’t feel great about genny, dubz, and now also cray. TBD on chaos, vissy. I can give more once I get to my laptop and I’m still alive
 
cubsrule4e said:
A whole post devoted to me? How sweet. Under the radar? I’ve been talking all day. And my vote for dubz was clearly substantiated by Mel.
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From reading the thread I felt like there wasn’t as much wolfhunting content as I’m used to and that there was more echoing, mild statements, and fluffposting for the sake of posting. Just ISOed you to see if that feeling was justified:
WildZoo said:
I was feeling ok about Bob but this post feels fake. Might just be all the question marks though.
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cubsrule4e said:
Agree, Bob giving off a big village vibe to me. Words and thoughts more free flowing.
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First content of today. The feeling of “just echoing, mild statement, and fluff” was from my impression of yesterday and the beginning of today, I believe. Got a bit of a whiteknighting feeling from this and the following post
cubsrule4e said:
I think he was just amped up during his posting lol

Edit: "jump" to just
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cubsrule4e said:
Why did neither Chaos or Mel self prez out of a tie? I know Mel said made some inside joke about seeing if he could get yeeted D1 or something or other but I havent seen a real explain from either.
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This post was necessary and I appreciated cubs getting the discussion on that going. Not taking any stand though.
cubsrule4e said:
Correct. I am #2 wolf read just 'cause at the moment. Only thing he said was I voted him without "Conviction."
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This makes sense to me and looks more like village getting bad feelings from how someone is interacting with them than the defensive wolf cubs I’m used to
WildZoo said:
Well the other explanation is we got really lucky and they're both scum :heckyeah:
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cubsrule4e said:
And risk a double (likely game ending) death? Hmm

In any case,

VOTE CHAOS
(emphasis added for conviction)
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Initially this looked to me like “cubs was setting up for someone to look at his post and say ‘maybe they’re both scum’” so that he wouldn’t have to be the one that idea gets traced back to if they both flip village”. But that conclusion actually isn’t such an obvious one to draw so I don’t think cubs was fishing for someone to say it - looks much more like he was genuinely just questioning them to try to get an explanation for the puzzling behaviour, then Dubz piped up with a theory he was unsure of. Two wolves on the board allowing themselves to end in a tie, very visibly not prezzing on each other, immediately after a game where Bob was caught partially because Pippy notably refused to self-prez onto him D1? Honestly that feels like the least likely aff combo between chaos and Mel to me.
WildZoo said:
I already talked about the ones that could be agreed or disagreed with. The only one I didn't mention was cubs which like...isn't a real read so.
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cubsrule4e said:
So then what is your read on Cubs?
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I read this as “cubs is starting to get twitchy and try to feel out how people are reading him” but now I’m seeing a logical progression of Dubz having a response to his question not aimed at her that pinged him -> cubs questions Dubz as he gets suspicious of her -> doesn’t like response to that either -> pushes Dubz
cubsrule4e said:
If we are to believe this is a basics game, we shouldnt be overly dwelling on PRs anyway, just as we shouldnt be overly dwelling on Bobs conversion drivel.
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Fair enough and trying to steer away from distracting convo looks villagey
cubsrule4e said:
I could dip my toe in the Dubz pool. Nothing striking me about mkg at this point.
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I now see where the Dubz sus came from, it looked like out of nowehere jumping on a wagon to me before
cubsrule4e said:
unvote chaos
vote dubbie
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cubsrule4e said:
Dunno... just starting to get that not-so-phresh feeling. Dont like how she was brought up as a potential pack with someone and immediately jumped on that vote when given the chance.



This also felt weird.

Vis, I only said I agreed with what Bob had laid out with some soft sussing attempts. Like she kinda started trying to be "in" with the joking posts at first, but then backed out and threw some shade at other joking posts.
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More points on Dubz that I forgot about.
cubsrule4e said:
It just seemed strange to throw out, especially when you followed it up with "no mod would ever kill 2 wolves in a tie D1" as to then take away from the whole point of my line of questioning as to why neither self prezzed.
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By the “point of [your] line of questioning”, do you mean that you wanted to hear their responses? Because yeah it is also pinging me that she jumped in on that to throw out the idea of them as w/w, which feels like the low-hanging-fruit explanation and doesn’t make a ton of sense to me once you think about it, instead of allowing them to answer. Or did you have your own theory about why it happened that you were trying to hint at? Because if so I totally missed what that point was
 
I’m interested in the Dubz vote now, not 100% behind it so want to reread some Dubz stuff before close but for now

vote Dubz
 
mkg323 said:
Don’t feel great about genny, dubz, and now also cray. TBD on chaos, vissy. I can give more once I get to my laptop and I’m still alive
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Hm I like this reads list overall. Why genny, once you can elaborate?
 
Viscernable said:
From reading the thread I felt like there wasn’t as much wolfhunting content as I’m used to and that there was more echoing, mild statements, and fluffposting for the sake of posting. Just ISOed you to see if that feeling was justified:



First content of today. The feeling of “just echoing, mild statement, and fluff” was from my impression of yesterday and the beginning of today, I believe. Got a bit of a whiteknighting feeling from this and the following post



This post was necessary and I appreciated cubs getting the discussion on that going. Not taking any stand though.

This makes sense to me and looks more like village getting bad feelings from how someone is interacting with them than the defensive wolf cubs I’m used to


Initially this looked to me like “cubs was setting up for someone to look at his post and say ‘maybe they’re both scum’” so that he wouldn’t have to be the one that idea gets traced back to if they both flip village”. But that conclusion actually isn’t such an obvious one to draw so I don’t think cubs was fishing for someone to say it - looks much more like he was genuinely just questioning them to try to get an explanation for the puzzling behaviour, then Dubz piped up with a theory he was unsure of. Two wolves on the board allowing themselves to end in a tie, very visibly not prezzing on each other, immediately after a game where Bob was caught partially because Pippy notably refused to self-prez onto him D1? Honestly that feels like the least likely aff combo between chaos and Mel to me.


I read this as “cubs is starting to get twitchy and try to feel out how people are reading him” but now I’m seeing a logical progression of Dubz having a response to his question not aimed at her that pinged him -> cubs questions Dubz as he gets suspicious of her -> doesn’t like response to that either -> pushes Dubz

Fair enough and trying to steer away from distracting convo looks villagey

I now see where the Dubz sus came from, it looked like out of nowehere jumping on a wagon to me before



More points on Dubz that I forgot about.

By the “point of [your] line of questioning”, do you mean that you wanted to hear their responses? Because yeah it is also pinging me that she jumped in on that to throw out the idea of them as w/w, which feels like the low-hanging-fruit explanation and doesn’t make a ton of sense to me once you think about it, instead of allowing them to answer. Or did you have your own theory about why it happened that you were trying to hint at? Because if so I totally missed what that point was
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Do people not understand the :heckyeah: as tongue in cheek anymore or what? My whole point is that it would make no sense for either of them not to self prez as a wolf, unless they were both wolves. Did I ever say that was likely or that it was how I was reading the situation? No. I said multiple times today that I don't think chaos is a wolf, and if you follow this to its logical conclusion and the fact that I said I was most interested in you and mkg, it should also be clear I don't think mel is a wolf.

And I wasn't answering for chaos or mel in that situation, it was an open topic of discussion. Me saying "what if they're both wolves" does not stop them from giving their actual answers, and is not the same as someone answering a question that was directed at another player.
 
WildZoo said:
Do people not understand the :heckyeah: as tongue in cheek anymore or what? My whole point is that it would make no sense for either of them not to self prez as a wolf, unless they were both wolves. Did I ever say that was likely or that it was how I was reading the situation? No. I said multiple times today that I don't think chaos is a wolf, and if you follow this to its logical conclusion and the fact that I said I was most interested in you and mkg, it should also be clear I don't think mel is a wolf.

And I wasn't answering for chaos or mel in that situation, it was an open topic of discussion. Me saying "what if they're both wolves" does not stop them from giving their actual answers, and is not the same as someone answering a question that was directed at another player.
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I’ve seen you use :heckyeah: as tongue-in-cheek, yes, but in posts where you were throwing out an idea you do agree with, so without other reason to think you didn’t actually think that was a possibility I assumed you were sincere about the idea.
 
Viscernable said:
I’ve seen you use :heckyeah: as tongue-in-cheek, yes, but in posts where you were throwing out an idea you do agree with, so without other reason to think you didn’t actually think that was a possibility I assumed you were sincere about the idea.
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I think it's valuable to keep all possibilities in mind this early, but no I don't think that is the most likely, which again, should have been clear from the multiple times I said I don't think chaos is wolfing here
 
BobLoblaw78 said:
I’ve just never been in a game where no NK first night or no yeet D1.

I agree on chaos seeming village sounding. Mel seems village lean based on D1 vote outcome. Especially if there was no clue that a tie would result in no yeet.

visc and dubz in the middle. Not enough to base a read for Genny or mkg (null?)
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rereading today, what are your thoughts on AM and Cubs?
 
Animal Midwife said:
That's a minor crime compared to what people think American cheese is.
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AM I feel like you're the type of person to make a cheese board, but have it only be different brands of American Cheese

Viscernable said:
Putting down a late self-preservation vote clearly marked as such once it is clearly necessary and after spending the rest of the cycle questioning, pushing, and voting with your real thoughts doesn’t give up spelling out your opinions. I get what you’re saying about how useful those opinions are to village once you’re confirmed village vs when you’re alive and still under suspicion (surviving a contentious vote can make everyone fixated on flipping you for info anyway, which can be deleterious to discussion if everyone gets too fixated on just you because you’re “an egg to be cracked”). But I think in the end it’s focusing on the positive side (getting a retrospective look at a flipped townie’s opinions) of a net negative (misyeeting a villager).
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I feel like Vis has talked a lot about like game logic and not a lot about the things actually going on, but maybe thats just me.
genny said:
yeet mkg
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not a fan of the naked votes on me, neither genny or dubz gave any reasons, dubz jumped on after AM said she would be ok with some pressure on me, and is the only one to have a reason so far.
Viscernable said:
I don’t have any real wolf reads yet and don’t feel great about any of the current wagons but I do agree with this. It’s harder to say since in the last few games where she’s had less time her style has definitely been different, but I still haven’t got any village cray feelings that I usually do and I feel some possible hesitancy to make enemies or put out interactions
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this is really, really concerning to me. I get its a weird D2 bc no one has died, but NONE of the wagons feel ok? the wagons at this point were:
cubs () -
Cray (2) - bobs, MKG
Chaos (1) - AM
AM (1) - chaos
Bobs (1) - Cray
Vissy (1) - Mels
MKG (2) - WZ, genny
WZ (1) - cubs

7/10 people playing are on the board and none of them look good??

Viscernable said:
Hm I like this reads list overall. Why genny, once you can elaborate?
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her posts have actually contributed very little, plus the naked votes. Like IMO her village play is almost more chaotic than this? or at least it was during Bioshock.
 
mkg323 said:
7/10 people playing are on the board and none of them look good??
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Not that there’s any other specific wagon I want, I just don’t feel strongly about anyone. I feel like there are wolf and village points for everyone, and everyone I’ve had suspicions about has had responses that made me feel better about them. No flips is confusing for me.
 
mkg323 said:
AM I feel like you're the type of person to make a cheese board, but have it only be different brands of American Cheese


I feel like Vis has talked a lot about like game logic and not a lot about the things actually going on, but maybe thats just me.

not a fan of the naked votes on me, neither genny or dubz gave any reasons, dubz jumped on after AM said she would be ok with some pressure on me, and is the only one to have a reason so far.

this is really, really concerning to me. I get its a weird D2 bc no one has died, but NONE of the wagons feel ok? the wagons at this point were:
cubs () -
Cray (2) - bobs, MKG
Chaos (1) - AM
AM (1) - chaos
Bobs (1) - Cray
Vissy (1) - Mels
MKG (2) - WZ, genny
WZ (1) - cubs

7/10 people playing are on the board and none of them look good??


her posts have actually contributed very little, plus the naked votes. Like IMO her village play is almost more chaotic than this? or at least it was during Bioshock.
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Sorry I wasn't clear, I thought your initial reads list was meh. Plus a bit of process of elimination since I had village notes for several other players.
 
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