Downshifting on the road to retirement...

[JacobMcCandles]

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To be fair, starting at negative $300k, a net worth of $2.5m 10 years out is almost mathematically impossible for an EM doc barring exceptional market conditions (like the ones we’ve had for the past 5 years).

I wouldn’t go that far to say it’s almost mathematically impossible. There’s EM docs saving $200k-$300k per year. I fully admit that it’s a small minority but they’re out there. You get a higher earning EM doc that’s a saver and you’d be surprised what they can do in 10 years. It’s within reach to double the $2.5M you mention 10 years out.

 

[Splenda88]

Ya you're right. I revise my initial statement. 1M by 10 seems to be normal as per the WCI data. Still think 2 to 2.5 is a stretch tho.

You might be correct that 2-2.5M might be a stretch, but I think that should be the goal.

 

[emergentmd]

the 10 yr, 2Mil Mark all depends on essentially 2 factors. #1 - Are you married and does she/you spend alot. #2 - Do you have kids and how many.

If you are good with #1 and do not have any kids, getting to 2M in 10 yrs seems simple even if you have 500K debt. Make 400K full time puts you at 300K take home. Even if you spend 150K/yr, you are saving 150K/yr.

With 500K debt, you are paid off in about 3.5 yrs. That leaves 6.5 yrs. At typical market return, you will be right at 1.5M.

Now if you have kids x3 , private school x3, SAHM then everything is thrown out the window. Ask me how I know and I only started with about 120K school debt.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

An ED doc that is single and doesn't have any kids that DOESN'T reach 2M by 10Y just isn't even trying, and if they try to justify it here in any way I want them to imagine me doing this to them

 

[bravotwozero]

the 10 yr, 2Mil Mark all depends on essentially 2 factors. #1 - Are you married and does she/you spend alot. #2 - Do you have kids and how many.

If you are good with #1 and do not have any kids, getting to 2M in 10 yrs seems simple even if you have 500K debt. Make 400K full time puts you at 300K take home. Even if you spend 150K/yr, you are saving 150K/yr.

With 500K debt, you are paid off in about 3.5 yrs. That leaves 6.5 yrs. At typical market return, you will be right at 1.5M.

Now if you have kids x3 , private school x3, SAHM then everything is thrown out the window. Ask me how I know and I only started with about 120K school debt.

How do you know?

 

[skougess]

Ya you're right. I revise my initial statement. 1M by 10 seems to be normal as per the WCI data. Still think 2 to 2.5 is a stretch tho.

The gap between $1m and $2.5m at 10 years is the size of the Grand Canyon. $2.5M at 10 years required a combination of extreme penny pinching and/or extremely favorable market conditions. On the flip side, if you can’t even save $1m at 10 years then you’ve got some serious financial work to do.

 

[skougess]

An ED doc that is single and doesn't have any kids that DOESN'T reach 2M by 10Y just isn't even trying, and if they try to justify it here in any way I want them to imagine me doing this to them

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If you graduated in 2016 and got to ride this insane asset value increase over the past 10 years, I’d agree with you. Generally disagree though.

 

[skougess]

I wouldn’t go that far to say it’s almost mathematically impossible. There’s EM docs saving $200k-$300k per year. I fully admit that it’s a small minority but they’re out there. You get a higher earning EM doc that’s a saver and you’d be surprised what they can do in 10 years. It’s within reach to double the $2.5M you mention 10 years out.

Sure; but we are talking about an average ER doc with an average mid $300s salary. The take home is just over $200k.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

Sure; but we are talking about an average ER doc with an average mid $300s salary. The take home is just over $200k.

I was speaking to you calling it almost mathematically impossible. Averages being the averages, even your highest average paying specialties aren’t doing $5M net worths 10 years out.

 

[skougess]

I was speaking to you calling it almost mathematically impossible. Averages being the averages, even your highest average paying specialties aren’t doing $5M net worths 10 years out.

I mean it is almost mathematically impossible for your average doc. All of you guys who are about 10 years out have enjoyed one of the greatest bull runs and housing markets run ups in decades.

So yeah, to that point I agree. If you are a doc 10 years out right now, you should have about $2m. Going forward, it’s hard to say if that’s a reasonable milestone.

In a flat stagnant market, saving $100k/yearly puts you at $1m after 10 years (obvious, but I think worth putting in writing.) Hardly financial illiteracy to be saving $100k/yr.

I think you can say if a doc 10 years out doesn’t have >$1m, they have made missteps. I don’t think you can say the same for the $2m level. This IS sdn though where we are all worth $3m and still buy Porsches and go to 5 star hotels and got a 290 step 1 ha.

 

[skougess]

I know we’ve had a data point thread before, but I’ll throw my own real numbers into the ring.

Not including my working-wife’s contributions, my individual net worth 4 years out would be about $200-250k. I started at negative $320k (student loans) and spent three years in a sweat equity partnership track as a new grad. I think I’m doing well.

I drive a Toyota sedan and live in a LOC area. This is the average doc.

 

[Janders]

Yeah, its just the simple combination of spending / savings rate-amount / upward market movement.

I think with our salaries saving $50k/yr is ridiculous, unless you are doing to to rapidly pay off massive high interest debt for a couple years, because you graduated with a half-mil in debt. Which we could reframe as "saving".

$100k/yr should be the base for proper saving, prolly half of that in retirement accounts / matches / HSA / ROTH and the rest in brokerage.

Personally my goal coming out was $150k/year saving, through either working extra or low spend. My wife isn't a big spender, but also had a reasonably low-paying career, so her contribution was mostly maxing her retirement accounts. We did use a hunk of our first 2-3yr savings as a downpayment on our first house, then caught back up.

Obviously WITHOUT growth, these savings rates would give you 500k, 1mil and 1.5mil but..

Assuming an 8% compounded annual growth [just to throw a conservative ETF profile number out there]
10yr x 50k = 725k
10yr x 100k = 1.6ml
10yr x 150k = 2.2mil

Now skougess above sounds like his "saving" has been low end for his first 4yr out, only about 50k. Except it appears he's also paid off 300+k of loans and got himself into a partnership. So you could reframe this that its just like he's been saving 150k... and clearly having paid off the loans (and likely getting more income now) things will just skyrocket...

 

[EctopicFetus]

One very important item that people seemingly glance over is the pre tax vs post tax savings. Saving 100k pretax is not the same as saving 50k pre and 50k post tax. Depending on a slew of items that marginal dollar may be taxed at about 1/3 (or more) depending on state and local taxes along with deductions you take.

We often conflate those numbers or ignore the nuance there. As I get closer to planning my own exit as i probably have 8-10 years left.

Roth IRA money, money in regular brokerage accounts is not treated the same as your 401k money.

I have reached my FI number but partially of my liquid assets a little under 50% is in roth IRA/regular brokerage. the other 50%+ is in tax deferred accounts. In practice what that means is if I retired today, over half of the money I have to use in retirement would come from the accounts where the income has already been taxed (Yes I know about long term capital gains on my brokerage). Of course this is a complex issue where i can and will withdraw from my 401k in a manner to limit my overall tax. Also keep in mind RMDs are an issue down the line as well.

 

[Janders]

One very important item that people seemingly glance over is the pre tax vs post tax savings. Saving 100k pretax is not the same as saving 50k pre and 50k post tax. Depending on a slew of items that marginal dollar may be taxed at about 1/3 (or more) depending on state and local taxes along with deductions you take.

Oh yeah. Upfront, maximizing every iota of tax-savings space is an absolute boon, basically "free returns" in a way.

On the other side, the "best" combination of 401/403/HSA dollars, ROTH dollars and classic brokerage dollars to have available at retirement age (and what age that happens to be!) is a bit more complex of a puzzle. Personally (ignoring home equity) I'm close to 50% in various 401k-esque accounts and 50% in brokerage. You hear some people worry about having "too much" in 401k space, especially if they want to retire early... I don't think its a common problem in our particular situations. Some of this really does depend on unknowns-- value of ROTH space will vary by future tax brackets, etc.

 

[skougess]

Yeah, its just the simple combination of spending / savings rate-amount / upward market movement.

I think with our salaries saving $50k/yr is ridiculous, unless you are doing to to rapidly pay off massive high interest debt for a couple years, because you graduated with a half-mil in debt. Which we could reframe as "saving".

$100k/yr should be the base for proper saving, prolly half of that in retirement accounts / matches / HSA / ROTH and the rest in brokerage.

Personally my goal coming out was $150k/year saving, through either working extra or low spend. My wife isn't a big spender, but also had a reasonably low-paying career, so her contribution was mostly maxing her retirement accounts. We did use a hunk of our first 2-3yr savings as a downpayment on our first house, then caught back up.

Obviously WITHOUT growth, these savings rates would give you 500k, 1mil and 1.5mil but..

Assuming an 8% compounded annual growth [just to throw a conservative ETF profile number out there]
10yr x 50k = 725k
10yr x 100k = 1.6ml
10yr x 150k = 2.2mil

Now skougess above sounds like his "saving" has been low end for his first 4yr out, only about 50k. Except it appears he's also paid off 300+k of loans and got himself into a partnership. So you could reframe this that its just like he's been saving 150k... and clearly having paid off the loans (and likely getting more income now) things will just skyrocket...

That’s exactly how I think about it. I actuallly have about $200k of student loans left and have about $100k in equity in my house and $350k or so in my 401k/brokerages individually. My budget has me contribute about $100k of my paychecks to brokerages/retirements yearly and $55k to student loans yearly. When the loans are gone in about 4 years I’ll add that number to my retirements OR cut down on shifts to prolong longevity in the field and keep stashing $100k/yr while covering my yearly expenses and keeping me in the game as long as possible.

The formula for a new grad should be “yearly Retirement savings + yearly student loan paydown should AT MINIMUM equal $100k.”

 

[Bittersteel]

An ED doc that is single and doesn't have any kids that DOESN'T reach 2M by 10Y just isn't even trying, and if they try to justify it here in any way I want them to imagine me doing this to them

View attachment 424622

Makes sense to me. Married w kids and I'm 2M at 10 years. On one income.

Wasn't a stroke of genius just saved 50 to 100k / yr in SPY.

Now take away kids? Damn I'd be at at least 2.5.

 

[cyanide12345678]

2019 residency graduate. So 7 years for me. Income range between 300k (these days) to 450k.

Wife 2021 FM graduate. 5 years post residency. Income range 220k to 250k for her.

Sitting at 3.3M. First million was 7/22, so 3 years post residency for me.

Paid 195k of student loans for me. Wife had no debt and her med school cost $100/year in Pakistan.

 

[skougess]

2019 residency graduate. So 7 years for me. Income range between 300k (these days) to 450k.

Wife 2021 FM graduate. 5 years post residency. Income range 220k to 250k for her.

Sitting at 3.3M. First million was 7/22, so 3 years post residency for me.

Paid 195k of student loans for me. Wife had no debt and her med school cost $100/year in Pakistan.

View attachment 424630

Most of us who post net worths on SDN will have the problem of dying with millions in the bank at the expense of experiences and time while we were living. It’s the opposite problem of the doctor who spends everything he makes and has nothing to show for it after 20 years.

I’ve been trying to make sure I don’t “over save” for a life that may never come or for a life that’s at the expense of my time now. It’s all a balancing act, and on this forum we likely all err toward the side of over-saving.

Most physicians with average incomes should probably end up with around $2.5-5m in retirement savings after 20 years (in 2026 dollars). Less and you didn’t save enough, more and you didn’t spend enough. Though this goes out the window with people who graduated before the pandemic and enjoyed the huge run up in portfolios and home value. Like cyanide, they should have a bigger slice of pie already.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

3.3 is crazy very few doctor couples have this in 10 years

 

[JacobMcCandles]

I’m a little strange on sharing that much detail like net worth publicly but happy to reply to DMs for any of the regulars that are curious.

 

[bravotwozero]

3.3 is crazy very few doctor couples have this in 10 years

I mean if you're stuck on the computer selling puts or whatever the heck it is all day long for years on end, I'd hope you'd make 3.3 mil

 

[cyanide12345678]

I mean if you're stuck on the computer selling puts or whatever the heck it is all day long for years on end, I'd hope you'd make 3.3 mil

You’d be surprised. I’ve spent a grand total of maybe 15 minutes all week on looking at my etrade.

Here’s my trading from this week literally in 1 screen shot.

Doesn’t mean i don’t have a portfolio of puts, but they are all so far out of the money and with expirations in January that I’m not doing anything until vix is >20. I know it’s 18 today. Once it hits 20, I’ll revamp my entire portfolio with new expirations in March and a 100% completely revamped portfolio. Until then - i do nothing.

 

[cyanide12345678]

3.3 is crazy very few doctor couples have this in 10 years

This post will make @JacobMcCandles really proud.

The real secret sauce was making 505k as a couple and spending $50-60k a year for the first two years of being an attending. It helped living in dirt cheap Toledo in a 2 bedroom apartment. We made a crap tonne of money and spent 10% of it. Thats the secret sauce.

Even as a PGY3, i moonlighted at 5 different places and paid off 50k in debt even before graduating. Then quite literally was debt free by feb 2020 (June 2019 was graduation). By my 7th attending paycheck, i paid the remaining 145k that was left and was quite literally putting 300k/year into investments after that.

We moved in 2021 to a relatively more expensive Midwest area, doubled our expenses (100-120k), had another child, built a 6000 sqft house, but my wife’s income went from 55k to 230k then. I took my first of many paycuts 450-> 420k. But household income still went up to 650k. So the pace of investment never slowed - 250-300k/year.

So really…the secret sauce always was having reasonable expenses and making a crap tonne of money and investing a lot of it.

 

[Splenda88]

I’m a little strange on sharing that much detail like net worth publicly but happy to reply to DMs for any of the regulars that are curious.

I am sure we all know who you are.

 

[cyanide12345678]

I am sure we all know who you are.

I’m basically one of the most transparent to the extent that I’ve had a couple of people send me DMs asking if it’s me.

I’ve been on the wci twice as well so dozens of people i know already know my debt pay down story and when i hit my first million.

I never understood why Americans are so secretive about money. We can learn so much from each other.

 

[Porfirio]

Big shovel, I just kept digging for a long time. I paid off all debt, own my new cars, and have ~2.2 million saved in split Roth/Trad. My wife is SAHM with 3 kids (all birthed since residency graduation).

My secret was giving up the full time mantle and going PRN everywhere.

 

[TysonCook]

My secret was work my butt off on the front of my career, spend very little/penny pinch, (lived in my residency condo post graduating, and our big "step up" into a nice house was $300k), and invest every penny I could. Now I'm PGY17 and can cut back as I've reached well over FI. My wife hasn't worked and I followed a ton of WCI and Boggle heads along the way.

FWIW my advice to new grads is work your a** off for the first 3-5 years and spend like a resident. Reading as much financial education as you can. Once you hit that 5yr mark, re-assess. FI at year 15 and shift to part time.

 

[Janders]

My secret was work my butt off on the front of my career, spend very little/penny pinch, (lived in my residency condo post graduating, and our big "step up" into a nice house was $300k), and invest every penny I could. Now I'm PGY17 and can cut back as I've reached well over FI. My wife hasn't worked and I followed a ton of WCI and Boggle heads along the way.

FWIW my advice to new grads is work your a** off for the first 3-5 years and spend like a resident. Reading as much financial education as you can. Once you hit that 5yr mark, re-assess. FI at year 15 and shift to part time.

Modify details slightly, this is me. Front load that ****. Work. Make money. Live like a luxurious resident for a few years. WCI is correct. Interest compounds.

Reassess trajectory q5yr.

 

[Apollyon]

My secret was work my butt off on the front of my career, spend very little/penny pinch, (lived in my residency condo post graduating, and our big "step up" into a nice house was $300k), and invest every penny I could. Now I'm PGY17 and can cut back as I've reached well over FI. My wife hasn't worked and I followed a ton of WCI and Boggle heads along the way.

FWIW my advice to new grads is work your a** off for the first 3-5 years and spend like a resident. Reading as much financial education as you can. Once you hit that 5yr mark, re-assess. FI at year 15 and shift to part time.

As I recall, you were THE most superstar from applying to residency and thereafter. Big ups to you! You did it right, and DESERVE your excellent rewards!!

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Sure; but we are talking about an average ER doc with an average mid $300s salary. The take home is just over $200k.

Yeah but he thing is that every ED doctor gets paid per shift so it is relatively easy to make more to work more shifts

 

[BoardingDoc]

I've definitely broken the 1M minimum at almost 10 years post residency. Not at the 2.5M that people are evidently aiming for though.

That said, my wife likes to spend money, I have a family, and I have leaned into some of my wife's spending as a good thing (owning a ski house has literally changed my life and Idgaf if it slowed down my retirement).

Changing specialties also threw a bit of a wrench into the savings rate for the last 2 years, but that's correcting quite nicely.

Added leg up is having my wife's spending habits offset by the fact that she works and basically makes pediatrician money outside of medicine.

 

[skougess]

I've definitely broken the 1M minimum at almost 10 years post residency. Not at the 2.5M that people are evidently aiming for though.

That said, my wife likes to spend money, I have a family, and I have leaned into some of my wife's spending as a good thing (owning a ski house has literally changed my life and Idgaf if it slowed down my retirement).

Changing specialties also threw a bit of a wrench into the savings rate for the last 2 years, but that's correcting quite nicely.

Added leg up is having my wife's spending habits offset by the fact that she works and basically makes pediatrician money outside of medicine.

You’re doing just fine. This forum is full of outliers.

 

[Splenda88]

I’m basically one of the most transparent to the extent that I’ve had a couple of people send me DMs asking if it’s me.

I’ve been on the wci twice as well so dozens of people i know already know my debt pay down story and when i hit my first million.

I never understood why Americans are so secretive about money. We can learn so much from each other.

I don't understand it either. I am only secretive about money to friends, family members.

 

[Bittersteel]

One of the true dangers of EM is how it limits your lifetime income potential.

All of us here racing for whatever goal we've set just to then shift down or quit which severely limits total lifetime earnings.

We could have been radiologists sitting in a dark cool quiet room till we're 60.

 

[skougess]

One of the true dangers of EM is how it limits your lifetime income potential.

All of us here racing for whatever goal we've set just to then shift down or quit which severely limits total lifetime earnings.

We could have been radiologists sitting in a dark cool quiet room till we're 60.

I think about this frequently. Saving $50k/yr for 35 years is a wild retirement. Saving $100k/yr for 35 years is generational wealth. Yet almost none of us get there even though we are saving MORE than that because it’s nearly impossible to stay in an ER full time for longer than 15 years.

We are all racing against the clock of burn out. Plan accordingly.

 

[emergentmd]

EM still has a big shovel. If an EM doc becomes an attending at 30, saves 100K a yr for 10 yrs. 8% stock appreciation, they will have 1.6M at age 40. He downshifts to 6 shifts/month to cover living expenses and saves nothing.

At 50, he has 3.6M, at 60 he has 7.8M, at 65 he has 11.4M.

At 55 yrs old and $5M, his yearly return will be similar to his full time income (400K) where he will not outspend his return even if he hangs it up.

The EM doc or radiologist who wants to work past 55 is doing it just for generational wealth and not because he doesn't have plenty of money to retire. Also remember that Radiologist starts making money 2-3 yrs later and the market is cyclical. When I finished med school in the late 90's, radiology & Anesthesiology, were down and essentially the back up fields. Just because they are up now, doesn't mean they will be up in 10-20 yrs.

I can see AI doing a better job at reading film and pushing the drugs better than humans. Radiologist give incorrect readings all the time and obvious misses, AI will do better.

I went to play golf yesterday and was paired up with a random orthopedic surgeon employed by a big hospital system. He said he wish he were busier and hated that he was employed with all the politics. His private group was absorbed by the system and did not get a buy out because the work/income ratio was getting lower every year. He wished he could be private but the money/work ratio was not worth.

I am good friends with a private husband/wife surgeon (late 40s) duo who work their A$$es off and tell me they do not see retirement anytime soon. They work all the time just to keep the practice profitable. They have 1 kid who will not go into medicine b/c his parents work all the time.

Grass is not always greener. Yes, you hear of these ROAD specialties who are living high on the hog bc they are the big owners in the practice/surgery centers but this is rare.

 

[skougess]

EM still has a big shovel. If an EM doc becomes an attending at 30, saves 100K a yr for 10 yrs. 8% stock appreciation, they will have 1.6M at age 40. He downshifts to 6 shifts/month to cover living expenses and saves nothing.

At 50, he has 3.6M, at 60 he has 7.8M, at 65 he has 11.4M.

At 55 yrs old and $5M, his yearly return will be similar to his full time income (400K) where he will not outspend his return even if he hangs it up.

The EM doc or radiologist who wants to work past 55 is doing it just for generational wealth and not because he doesn't have plenty of money to retire. Also remember that Radiologist starts making money 2-3 yrs later and the market is cyclical. When I finished med school in the late 90's, radiology & Anesthesiology, were down and essentially the back up fields. Just because they are up now, doesn't mean they will be up in 10-20 yrs.

I can see AI doing a better job at reading film and pushing the drugs better than humans. Radiologist give incorrect readings all the time and obvious misses, AI will do better.

I went to play golf yesterday and was paired up with a random orthopedic surgeon employed by a big hospital system. He said he wish he were busier and hated that he was employed with all the politics. His private group was absorbed by the system and did not get a buy out because the work/income ratio was getting lower every year. He wished he could be private but the money/work ratio was not worth.

I am good friends with a private husband/wife surgeon (late 40s) duo who work their A$$es off and tell me they do not see retirement anytime soon. They work all the time just to keep the practice profitable. They have 1 kid who will not go into medicine b/c his parents work all the time.

Grass is not always greener. Yes, you hear of these ROAD specialties who are living high on the hog bc they are the big owners in the practice/surgery centers but this is rare.

Agree with your entire post. I certainly didnt mean mine as an “woe is me” post. Our BIGGEST asset with EM is the ability to work part time and still make $200k/yr once we’ve built our fortress of solitude.

The unfortunate problem is by that time, sometimes even part time is too much. I’m hoping I’ll be able to ride PT into the sunset in about 10 years.

 

[old_boy]

This is an entertaining thread - thank you and well done forum!

I'm a little over a decade out and about $2 million net worth, albeit mostly in pre-tax accounts. Married with kids; wife hasn't (yet) contributed meaningfully to our retirement accounts as she's been on mom duty and is just getting started with her career. Still have another 5-10 years of near-full-time work I figure and plan to work at least part time until age 60.

Many of us graduate residency into a toxic stew of debt, a stressful chaotic career that seems never-ending, and personal lives complicated by delayed choices and relationship pressure. I agree that working hard and saving and/or paying down debt early in one's career is the right move. But the key for me mid-career has been to have a mix of clinical and nonclinical work and not to work too much,
combined with a conscious attempt to find meaning outside of work in hobbies and family. It's a daily struggle.

A word of caution to emergentmd, cyanide12345678 and others: at current equity valuations and prospects for US economic growth, 8% real return of one's retirement portfolio is IMO optimistic. Personally I'd advise against a 100% or near 100% equity portfolio. Diversify. And I think it's a good idea to still plan on putting as much as possible (15+%) into pre-tax retirement accounts even as income falls later in one's career. This means keeping lifestyle inflation in check. And perhaps making difficult decision about cutting handouts to your kids once they leave the nest.

 

[skougess]

This is an entertaining thread - thank you and well done forum!

I'm a little over a decade out and about $2 million net worth, albeit mostly in pre-tax accounts. Married with kids; wife hasn't (yet) contributed meaningfully to our retirement accounts as she's been on mom duty and is just getting started with her career. Still have another 5-10 years of near-full-time work I figure and plan to work at least part time until age 60.

Many of us graduate residency into a toxic stew of debt, a stressful chaotic career that seems never-ending, and personal lives complicated by delayed choices and relationship pressure. I agree that working hard and saving and/or paying down debt early in one's career is the right move. But the key for me mid-career has been to have a mix of clinical and nonclinical work and not to work too much,
combined with a conscious attempt to find meaning outside of work in hobbies and family. It's a daily struggle.

A word of caution to emergentmd, cyanide12345678 and others: at current equity valuations and prospects for US economic growth, 8% real return of one's retirement portfolio is IMO optimistic. Personally I'd advise against a 100% or near 100% equity portfolio. Diversify. And I think it's a good idea to still plan on putting as much as possible (15+%) into pre-tax retirement accounts even as income falls later in one's career. This means keeping lifestyle inflation in check. And perhaps making difficult decision about cutting handouts to your kids once they leave the nest.

Agree that a 4% real return is much more realistic and the one I use for retirement projections.

 

[Porfirio]

I am using 7% as my number.

 

[Janders]

EM still has a big shovel. If an EM doc becomes an attending at 30, saves 100K a yr for 10 yrs. 8% stock appreciation, they will have 1.6M at age 40. He downshifts to 6 shifts/month to cover living expenses and saves nothing.

At 50, he has 3.6M, at 60 he has 7.8M, at 65 he has 11.4M.

This. I'm 45. I didn't marry into wealth or a big dual income package. I DID marry into minimal debt and low spend habits. At this point, my savings return at at +5% year is a solid attending salary, and a +10% year beats my peak year (working a high $/hr pace FT, doing a boat load of dual admin positions, and some minor moonlighting... banner year).

Will I work FT clinical til I'm 65? LOL I hope not. My graduating trajectory was to aim to be able to walk completely at age 50. I've modified that to cutting back at age 45 and seeing how the next few years go.

There is no perfect job nor perfect strategy, but as boo-hoo as we are about EM, it has absolute perks we should celebrate.

If you told me I could trade for a career where I'd be able to keep reading CTs in a dark factory 40-50hr a week until age 65... I'm not sure I would? I DO love CTs...

 

[devlyyn]

Great thread, I'll add my perspective.

I just crossed over the 10 year out threshold, finished residency with about $240k student loans and no other debt. Bought a house for $515k straight away with a zero % physician loan. My wife has only worked part time for fun and we have 2 children in public schools. We love to travel, and are relatively debt averse.

After paying off the student loans after about 2.5 years, we are just over $2.7M net worth including some home equity (I'm very conservative with home valuation). Round numbers are easier, so my goal has been to save $10k/mo, but with employer retirement contributions and occasional windfalls, we have been saving more than that.

I have been tracking my income and expenses for this entire 10 years and we would be in an even better spot if we hadn't gone so heavy into real estate syndications several years ago (a few with total losses, others dramatically underperforming). The things that would have broken this for me would have been:

1. divorce
2. more expensive house (property taxes are very high)
3. private school
4. luxury cars
5. luxury travel (we travel a lot, but not business class or $1k/night hotels)

 

[Splenda88]

Great thread, I'll add my perspective.

I just crossed over the 10 year out threshold, finished residency with about $240k student loans and no other debt. Bought a house for $515k straight away with a zero % physician loan. My wife has only worked part time for fun and we have 2 children in public schools. We love to travel, and are relatively debt averse.

After paying off the student loans after about 2.5 years, we are just over $2.7M net worth including some home equity (I'm very conservative with home valuation). Round numbers are easier, so my goal has been to save $10k/mo, but with employer retirement contributions and occasional windfalls, we have been saving more than that.

I have been tracking my income and expenses for this entire 10 years and we would be in an even better spot if we hadn't gone so heavy into real estate syndications several years ago (a few with total losses, others dramatically underperforming). The things that would have broken this for me would have been:

1. divorce
2. more expensive house (property taxes are very high)
3. private school
4. luxury cars
5. luxury travel (we travel a lot, but not business class or $1k/night hotels)

You are able to find luxury hotel suite for a family of 4 for < $700 these days!

 

[Groove]

Man, WTH kind of job is this and more importantly...who's qualified to take it? ER docs for SEAL team 6?

VIGILINT hiring Emergency Physician - MSRT in United States | LinkedIn

Posted 2:42:33 PM. VIGILINT is a unique medical operations company that provides advisory, planning, logistics…See this and similar jobs on LinkedIn.

www.linkedin.com

 

[AlmostAnMD]

I got a spam text for that job. Looked pretty regular until it asked for a secret clearance

Figured I was just making sure the guys the cia is torturing don't die

 

[southerndoc]

Man, WTH kind of job is this and more importantly...who's qualified to take it? ER docs for SEAL team 6?

View attachment 424747

View attachment 424748

VIGILINT hiring Emergency Physician - MSRT in United States | LinkedIn

Posted 2:42:33 PM. VIGILINT is a unique medical operations company that provides advisory, planning, logistics…See this and similar jobs on LinkedIn.

www.linkedin.com

I saw that. Either it's with a three-letter agency or it's with a tier 1 operator, but usually the tier 1 operators pull from their own military ranks.

I'm betting it's with one of the civilian agencies.

Who shall we nominate to apply so we can all get the details?

 

[Pudortu]

I'm a little late to the party but has anyone considered working just for charity? I have been incredibly blessed to be in the position I am in. I'm 40 years old currently and have considered downshifting in a way that every year from now on I donate the money from that shift to charities of my choice. I work about 10 clinical shifts a month now and have considered by Age 50, I will work 100% to donate everything. No stress about RVU or moving meat. Just work at my pace in a busier shop. If they pay me less then so be it. I can let the market do the lifting between now and then.

 

[skougess]

I'm a little late to the party but has anyone considered working just for charity? I have been incredibly blessed to be in the position I am in. I'm 40 years old currently and have considered downshifting in a way that every year from now on I donate the money from that shift to charities of my choice. I work about 10 clinical shifts a month now and have considered by Age 50, I will work 100% to donate everything. No stress about RVU or moving meat. Just work at my pace in a busier shop. If they pay me less then so be it. I can let the market do the lifting between now and then.

I think that only works if it’s a local charity you are intimately involved with. If you are just shoveling money to charities, you are going to find that not worth it very quickly.

 

[emergentmd]

I plan on giving 6 figures+ every year starting this yr. Not working though to give but I work to feel productive.

 

[Pudortu]

I think that only works if it’s a local charity you are intimately involved with. If you are just shoveling money to charities, you are going to find that not worth it very quickly.

I agree with that sentiment.