DRoP the WW sign ups and game thread

[lhmhtd]

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****. I didn't play the last WW game and got out of the habit of checking SDN every 2 hours 😀. Oh well. Go villagers!

 

[LetItSnow]

Thanks for trying to pile on me in the end while I wasn't around and could not possibly have had time to mount a defense even if I had been.

Retaliatory votes may be "lame," but they are also the most common first votes I've seen as DVMD demonstrated shortly after exclaiming how distasteful they were.

Oy. I have my work cut out for me here.

Omg the whininess. Make it stop.

 

[katashark]

Sorry I wasn't around yesterday! Was it normal first day stuff?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[DVMDream]

Thanks for trying to pile on me in the end while I wasn't around and could not possibly have had time to mount a defense even if I had been.

Retaliatory votes may be "lame," but they are also the most common first votes I've seen as DVMD demonstrated shortly after exclaiming how distasteful they were.

Oy. I have my work cut out for me here.

My vote wasn't retaliatory. It had two reasons. 1. You stated no reason for your vote of me. 2. My assumed guess to reason was that it was in retaliation to my being a wolf last game, which was just discussed heavily as a bad idea.

I don't care if they've been "common", common things can still be stupid. As we've been attempting to point out here.

 

[Abnerrs]

I forgot how tense these games can get 😕

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

My vote wasn't retaliatory. It had two reasons. 1. You stated no reason for your vote of me. 2. My assumed guess to reason was that it was in retaliation to my being a wolf last game, which was just discussed heavily as a bad idea.

I don't care if they've been "common", common things can still be stupid. As we've been attempting to point out here.

We all know what happens when one makes an assumption.

I never stated it was retaliatory but others did for their votes.

My reasoning was:
1. I thought you were a wolf last game and when I cited my reasons, which I admitted were about half feels based, I could get no traction from others.

2. From the way you have played in the past and responded to others on this forum and elsewhere, and even to me in some of the posts in this current game, I know you carry grudges. If, by some miracle I were to be able to let you direct that into a game that I can watch from the sidelines rather than directly confronting it every day (and likely night) of this game, that would make play more enjoyable for me.

Our argument last game was a distraction tactic on your side, which we got into because I tried to point it out. I get the feeling this one is much less game related.

 

[Promethean]

Thinking out loud -- The mechanics of games are really interesting to me.

I'm assuming that there must be at least one person who can receive a tithe per Hold. Do they receive the tithe from their Hold, I wonder? or do they go into a pool and get distributed? So, if someone does withhold their tithe, will someone in their hold be able to tell?

If there were one Dragon and one Rider per hold, that would be 10. Assuming there are so many: do they both receive a benefit from the tithe, or just one?

What happens to tithes later in the game, if there are more of them than there are players to receive them? Do they double up, or do some just go to waste?

 

[Promethean]

I don't expect answers, I'm just putting out there what I'm thinking about. Always more questions than answers at this stage.

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

Lynch DVMD

Maybe some leftover feelings of hostility from Dy's game. But mostly random.

So here is someone stating a retaliatory lynch. Also on you, but apparently not interestin enough.

You know, I hadn't even thought about that, but you bring up a good point that as players are lynched/wolf killed it will be more and more difficult for holds to tithe. Eventually toward end game many of the groups probably won't be able to tithe at all. We may also run into the problem of not being able to use certain player abilities if they choose to tithe and there aren't many players left in their group. I wonder what the implications of tithing will be on the game mechanics later on.

So LIS voting for me was an example of something that was discussed as being a bad idea.

You know, I don't quite get some of these last minute votes. Gwen voting for guise who has no votes yet and so is a throw away vote. Hmoo voting me after I have obviously shown some knowledge of the game and am around. Can people please start playing the game with a little more thought? I don't care if it is first day. We are in the last hour of lynch and this is when you make decisions based on who is going down.

Waiting last minute then voting someone who has no votes? It is not good play. I don't get it. the end.

Lupin stating how bad of an idea and what poor play it is to vote and bandwagon at the last minute. Another example of a reason why the votes for me were discussed as being a bad idea.

Do you mean like, revenge voting for wrongs from last game? In that case I'd have to lynch both Zen and DVMD

Gwen talking about revenge voting on you.

lynch lotf

Because I'd rather see her lynched than any of the ones up for lynch

Dy here and in her next post admitting a grudge completely unrelated to the current game. A very prime example of retaliatory voting.
This is also 11 minutes before close. Again, stated as a bad idea multiple times in this thread.

Sorry, guys, work today, got my role late, still need to even read the intro thread. I'm not a wolf, have a somewhat useful role.

Lynch LoTF because I still haven't caught up and she has no real reason for her voting me. And because retaliation posts from previous games played are dumb and we've discussed that before.

We have discussed it in previous games and sort of here... by other people using it as reasoning to lynch you or thinking about lynching you. In previous games it has also been defended as a valid opening move by players you do actually respect.
All reasons that even if my vote was retalitory, there is no way to claim yours is anything but.
This vote is 10 minutes before close. I was supposed to defend myself exactly when?

I'm still hesitant to start lynching my hold right off he bat but will feel dumb if html is indeed a wolf.

I'm going with
Lynch Lotf
As well because she always seems wolfy to me (even when she says she's a villager...) and I agree with Lupin about ffms defense. I have no thoughts on kata

Bandwagoning on a last minute push why?

unlynch DVMD
lynch lotF

Also someone voting for you, now swapping to me 6 minutes before close.

I gave no defense yesterday because I never even saw I was up for lynch until after I got home, got the kids in bed and took care of farm chores. I had been helping explain the game to those who are not familiar with the theme, which might be worth keeping around for awhile, but I have very good reasons for keeping me around otherwise if I am presented with a reason to give them out, and I suppose I should state, if I am given a chance to present them outside of the last 10 minutes of a lynch.

 

[Lupin21]

We are also going to have problems simply because the cycles are getting back to being 12 hours or less. I know people are busy which led to yesterday's lynch conundrum. Hard for there to be a good gauge on anything when the great majority of votes came with an hour and a half remaining. Not much we can do though with people having a lot going on. It will hopefully get better and we thin the herd, but I foresee more late bandwagons happening with the current amount of activity.

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

Bandwagoning on a last minute push why?

I should have listed this as separate because it does make me wonder:
Yes, a last minute bandwagon vote, but why? I know the others have argued with me mildly in previous games, but the current grudge is from the lounge, and while I know pre-vets do read over there... the others were all vocal over there and thus have a more obvious reasoning. FB was not vocally against me, but is sneaking a vote into the middle of a bandwagon and it makes it stick out like a sore thumb. If this was an attempt to hide a vote, it did the opposite in my mind.

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

We are also going to have problems simply because the cycles are getting back to being 12 hours or less. I know people are busy which led to yesterday's lynch conundrum. Hard for there to be a good gauge on anything when the great majority of votes came with an hour and a half remaining. Not much we can do though with people having a lot going on. It will hopefully get better and we thin the herd, but I foresee more late bandwagons happening with the current amount of activity.

And we have 2 games going on with multiple players in both. It may make time management and gauging wolfiness off of that timing... interesting.

 

[Lupin21]

And we have 2 games going on with multiple players in both. It may make time management and gauging wolfiness off of that timing... interesting.

nah, playing two at once isn't a problem. Not playing at all when signed up is.

 

[WildZoo]

I was driving all day yesterday so I missed everything, I'm going to read over it when i can but can anyone provide a summary?

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

nah, playing two at once isn't a problem. Not playing at all when signed up is.

I haven't juggled 2 games at once, but I was thinking that if I did, my time in either would decrease slightly and would be a bit different from my regular post pattern. Since some people try to use that as a wolf tell... won't it affect that strategy some?

 

[Lupin21]

I was driving all day yesterday so I missed everything, I'm going to read over it when i can but can anyone provide a summary?

Some discussion about if it is a wolf vs village setup and who would be wolves. Whether tithes are going to be a problem and who exactly they are going to. Late lynching yesterday ended with some ties going between FFM, DVMD, HTML, and Lotf. Ended up with HTML, who of course was the tracker.

 

[Lupin21]

I haven't juggled 2 games at once, but I was thinking that if I did, my time in either would decrease slightly and would be a bit different from my regular post pattern. Since some people try to use that as a wolf tell... won't it affect that strategy some?

Nope. Worst thing that happens is some people confuse who said what in which game for those of us playing in both. Posting style doesn't change in my estimation. Like I said, play should be based on what is being said and when in a game, not all based on what you expect a person to post like. While that generality can help you focus in, it should not prevent the main reasoning of suspicion being on the present, not the past.

 

[KCgophervet]

Night closed, results pending

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

Other bits of yesterday that might be helpful but Lupin totally ninja'd me:

Page 2 and 3 are mostly people trying to figure out the theme and how it will affect this game. Plus the standard LIS/SOV exchange of votes. A few random votes here and there otherwise. Guise said he (right?) was attacked, FB said somebody tried to steal their ability. A few votes are placed based on the assumption that someone in Guise's group was the likely attacker.

Top of page 4 is 2 hours left in the day. A few more mostly random lynchés occur and the last 15 minutes is outlined in too much detail above.

How is the move going? Fish tank survive and all the Littles doing well?

 

[guisantes]

Guise said he (right?) was attacked, FB said somebody tried to steal their ability. A few votes are placed based on the assumption that someone in Guise's group was the likely attacker.

She 🙂

And html was in FB's group. I, personally, voted for html because FB said the people in her group may have noticed that she didn't tithe her ability, and therefore assumed she has an important ability and tried to steal it. Ability stealing seems wolfy to me, and that was my logic. I'm not sure why the other people who voted for html after me did it

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

She 🙂

And html was in FB's group. I, personally, voted for html because FB said the people in her group may have noticed that she didn't tithe her ability, and therefore assumed she has an important ability and tried to steal it. Ability stealing seems wolfy to me, and that was my logic. I'm not sure why the other people who voted for html after me did it

Ok, cool. Sorry I got in backwards on the reread. And I'll try to fix the gender confusion in my brain 🙂

 

[guisantes]

Ok, cool. Sorry I got in backwards on the reread. And I'll try to fix the gender confusion in my brain 🙂

Don't worry it's not a WW game without gender confusion!

 

[hazelmoo]

You know, I don't quite get some of these last minute votes. Gwen voting for guise who has no votes yet and so is a throw away vote. Hmoo voting me after I have obviously shown some knowledge of the game and am around. Can people please start playing the game with a little more thought? I don't care if it is first day. We are in the last hour of lynch and this is when you make decisions based on who is going down.

Rereading everything from yesterday and would like to address this! Just because you have lots of knowledge on the subject and are around means nothing. Just the fact that you say it as if it should exonerate you makes no sense to me. The first day is always a mess, and I started a little late so was trying to get a vote in before close. I didn't want to jump on a bandwagon, because look where those always end up... Just because you don't understand my vote doesn't mean I'm playing the game with less than sufficient thinking! Anyways, I'm going to continue reading now 😛

 

[LetItSnow]

I forgot how tense these games can get 😕

It's a game BUILT around lying and deception......... I mean, the whole design of the game encourages conflict. Whatchooexpect?

 

[Trilt]

**************

It's a game BUILT around lying and deception......... I mean, the whole design of the game encourages conflict. Whatchooexpect?

Plus, way more amusing for the mods when people get feisty... see me on the left:

**************

 

[hazelmoo]

**************

Plus, way more amusing for the mods when people get feisty... see me on the left:

**************

And me on the right 😛

 

[LetItSnow]

OMG the crap level is SO deep.

So LIS voting for me was an example of something that was discussed as being a bad idea.

I voted to lynch SOV, not you. Not sure what you're talking about.

Dy here and in her next post admitting a grudge completely unrelated to the current game.

She most certainly did not "admit a grudge". I can't say what she meant because I can't read her mind, but nowhere did she say "I'm voting for LotF because of grudge." I read it as voting for you because she doesn't like your play style and finds that it hurts villagers more than it helps, or because she finds your passive aggressiveness tends to make it less enjoyable for her, or ... any number of other reasons. Nothing to do with 'grudge'. You putting those words in her mouth says a lot.

This vote is 10 minutes before close. I was supposed to defend myself exactly when?

Said everyone who is bandwagoned ever. Get over it. We have ALL been bandwagoned at some point or another. So what. Either make time to be online when the lynch is scheduled to end if it bothers you that much, or just get over the fact that it might happen. All that defensiveness? Not useful.

I gave no defense yesterday because I never even saw I was up for lynch until after I got home, got the kids in bed and took care of farm chores.

As I have pointed out many times, being busy is not an excuse for anything. Being busy doesn't make one a villager. It doesn't mean one shouldn't get lynched. If it did, we would all just check out of the game at the beginning and say "gee, shucks, sorry, I'm busy."

I might vote to lynch you just for how much you're putting words in people's mouths and whining. It's really distracting and isn't likely to help villagers.

That's not a "grudge," btw, that's just choosing to vote for someone I feel isn't being helpful.

 

[Lupin21]

Rereading everything from yesterday and would like to address this! Just because you have lots of knowledge on the subject and are around means nothing. Just the fact that you say it as if it should exonerate you makes no sense to me. The first day is always a mess, and I started a little late so was trying to get a vote in before close. I didn't want to jump on a bandwagon, because look where those always end up... Just because you don't understand my vote doesn't mean I'm playing the game with less than sufficient thinking! Anyways, I'm going to continue reading now 😛

Your vote was made without any reason and you didn't even hang around to question me. That is a throw away vote and is aggravating play. And while yes, me being knowledgable has no bearing on me being a wolf, you don't start lynching someone who has something to offer in the game as an encourager of talk without taking the time to back up the vote with interrogations. It is bad play.

 

[hazelmoo]

Your vote was made without any reason and you didn't even hang around to question me. That is a throw away vote and is aggravating play. And while yes, me being knowledgable has no bearing on me being a wolf, you don't start lynching someone who has something to offer in the game as an encourager of talk without taking the time to back up the vote with interrogations. It is bad play.

I know you don't agree, but I would rather have a throw away vote than vote for someone who has no evidence of being a wolf. I knew you wouldn't get lynched, and I didn't want to vote for htlm or anyone with more votes because I don't know who's suspicious and who's not. As someone who has gotten bandwagoned on the first day a few games in the past, I really try to stay away from it, especially when the player isn't around to defend themselves.

 

[hazelmoo]

also, since when do first day votes need to have a reason??

 

[Lupin21]

I know you don't agree, but I would rather have a throw away vote than vote for someone who has no evidence of being a wolf. I knew you wouldn't get lynched, and I didn't want to vote for htlm or anyone with more votes because I don't know who's suspicious and who's not. As someone who has gotten bandwagoned on the first day a few games in the past, I really try to stay away from it, especially when the player isn't around to defend themselves.

Yes, that makes sense. Thank you for explaining.

 

[KCgophervet]

Though no Thread has fallen, the night was busy, with fire lizards being sent off with messages, Thread shutters being slammed shut, and unfortunately the brutal death of a brave Weyrleader. N'ton had been a night owl obsessed with staring at the stars through a distance viewer. This made him a good protector, as he tried to watch over his fellow Pernese. Unfortunately, the one he should have protected last night was himself. He was found on top of the Star Stones at Fort Weyr, brutally strangled to death. Shortly following, his loyal dragon Lioth jumped between forever, and a mournful keen arose from the dragons as they cried out for the loss of one of their own.

Dead is MQ - N'ton, protector (Villager).

It is now Day 2. Lynch deadline is 9PM real Central time/10PM Crazy East-coaster time

Roster:
Ruatha Hold
Filly Bay
StartingoverVet
ResoluteMike
Promethean
DVMDream

Fort Hold
dyachei
Gwenevre
vetmedhead
BeautifulBritishColumbia
Flim Flam Man
SummerTheLynx

Telgar Hold
WildZoo
guisantes
Mad Jack
Kam325

Southern Hold
SandstormDVM
Abney
LadyOtheFarm
Lupin21
LetItSnow

Tillek Hold
PrincessButterCup
katashark
Jilary
Devastating
Animal Midwife
hazelmoo

Deadland
Html - Piemur
MQ - N'ton, dragonrider

A clarification note: if you tithe your ability, you will regain the use of it the following night. I'm sorry if that was unclear, and if that is the reason you did not submit a night action message me and we can work something out.

 

[Lupin21]

also, since when do first day votes need to have a reason??

Because people have gotten into the habit of tossing in a vote then not following up on it or offering up a reason and allowing for the person who received the vote to speak up and defend. The back and forth is missing from the games in the past year, so would be nice to start bringing back some interrogation and defense skills, not just dropping a role name to prove one's innocence.

 

[Kam325]

Pending any real information, I'm going to start with Lynch Kata.

If you're a wolf with a few votes on you in a pretty close, low-vote, D1 race, just not showing up at all until after lynch closes isn't a terrible move. And Kata was the first person on a lynch list with a bunch of single votes to get a second one, and within 10 minutes of her second vote FFM had gotten two more (his second and third). Effort to prevent a bandwagon on a wolf by pushing up a new lynch leader? Could absolutely be coincidence, thin reasoning, but I'd like to see where it goes (and I want to get this lynch going early to prevent the scramble we had last night, that **** only benefits the wolves).

 

[vetmedhead]

She 🙂

And html was in FB's group. I, personally, voted for html because FB said the people in her group may have noticed that she didn't tithe her ability, and therefore assumed she has an important ability and tried to steal it. Ability stealing seems wolfy to me, and that was my logic. I'm not sure why the other people who voted for html after me did it

I had similar reasoning to this. Ability stealing definitely seems wolfy to me and I think it could be smart for wolves to pick through their own groups a bit to see if there's any players they may need to kill right off based on who seems important on hold PM. If the wolves have an ability stealer (seems like they do based on the previous posts on thread) then that means they can use ability stealing or killing to get information. Ability stealing would draw less attention to a wolf than just killing everyone else in their hold.

 

[katashark]

I was just busy yesterday that's all. I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to check in.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Promethean]

Do we have any groups that agreed not to tithe, to see what might come of it? Obviously, we can't know if anyone who said that they would tithe then withheld it privately.

 

[hazelmoo]

I could be wrong, but isn't tithing only beneficial? I don't understand why one would chose not to? Besides giving up their ability.

(I've read through the thread twice and done some googling, but I still don't understand)

 

[Lupin21]

I could be wrong, but isn't tithing only beneficial? I don't understand why one would chose not to? Besides giving up their ability.

(I've read through the thread twice and done some googling, but I still don't understand)

I would say that it could go to a wolf, so there is some danger inherent there.

 

[Kam325]

I could be wrong, but isn't tithing only beneficial? I don't understand why one would chose not to? Besides giving up their ability.

(I've read through the thread twice and done some googling, but I still don't understand)

Why an individual might not tithe--might be someone has either an important villager role or a useful wolf role, but doesn't want to draw attention, so they tithe publicly but revoke privately.

As for a whole hold collectively deciding to withhold--we won't know the consequences of not tithing until we see the effects. Since someone is forced to give up their ability to tithe, there's going to be cost-benefit analysis involved, especially when we get down in numbers. So there's an argument for some experimentation (though I think we might get more info when the first thread falls).

 

[Skimble]

I believe our group didn't tithe n1, but only due to lack of discussion.

 

[Promethean]

I would say that it could go to a wolf, so there is some danger inherent there.

That is a risk that I'm trying to explore. I think that it likely always goes to a Dragon and/or a Rider.

I would doubt that either of those roles would be wolves, certainly to start. I'm not clear on whether we are dealing with a game where all the wolves are bad guys from the start, or a game where there could be some element of conversion. The latter possibility makes extending trust a greater risk, and complicates the decision about tithing, and whether it is a good thing or not.

 

[Kam325]

Why an individual might not tithe--might be someone has either an important villager role or a useful wolf role, but doesn't want to draw attention, so they tithe publicly but revoke privately.

As for a whole hold collectively deciding to withhold--we won't know the consequences of not tithing until we see the effects. Since someone is forced to give up their ability to tithe, there's going to be cost-benefit analysis involved, especially when we get down in numbers. So there's an argument for some experimentation (though I think we might get more info when the first thread falls).

Also a possibility that a wolf volunteers to tithe specifically so that they can revoke and force their hold to go tithe-less....sabotage!

 

[Lupin21]

That is a risk that I'm trying to explore. I think that it likely always goes to a Dragon and/or a Rider.

I would doubt that either of those roles would be wolves, certainly to start. I'm not clear on whether we are dealing with a game where all the wolves are bad guys from the start, or a game where there could be some element of conversion. The latter possibility makes extending trust a greater risk, and complicates the decision about tithing, and whether it is a good thing or not.

There are definitely a couple dragon riders that are not good guys in the series, so while we have yet to determine what equates a wolf, I am still weary of a couple of them.

 

[Skimble]

Also a possibility that a wolf volunteers to tithe specifically so that they can revoke and force their hold to go tithe-less....sabotage!

I feel this is definitely possible, but we also don't know if the consequences will negatively affect the wolves too, since we don't know what the consequences are yet. I do believe each group should elect to tithe for now.

 

[Promethean]

There are definitely a couple dragon riders that are not good guys in the series, so while we have yet to determine what equates a wolf, I am still weary of a couple of them.

Good to know. Like I say, my knowledge of the setting has a couple decades of dust on it.

I believe our group didn't tithe n1, but only due to lack of discussion.

Anyone else from Tillek could confirm this? Did no one mention tithing n1? If no tithe was made, then we might not see an effect from withholding unless Thread is falling.

 

[Trilt]

Officialish Lynch Tally
kata 1 (Kam)

1/25 votes
Deadline 10PM CST/11PM EST

 

[guisantes]

If no tithe was made, then we might not see an effect from withholding unless Thread is falling.

I am leaning toward thinking this is the case. If there were immediate consequences, I think it would defeat the purpose of being able to PM the mods secretly and say you don't actually want to tithe, because then everyone would know that happened.

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

I voted to lynch SOV, not you. Not sure what you're talking about.

Sorry this is my fault. I went from memory that there was a supreme vote on me when I wrote it and assumed it was because someone from my hold voted for me... I was wrong, either way I had meant to go back and correct it before posting but got bogged down in the rest of the post and forgot.

As far as the rest... aren't you one of the ones that normally argues against the last 10 minute lead switch because it yields so much less info, in part, because of a lack of defense?

With Dy, I may be reading too much into it, but based on wording of her posts around her lynch vote, I don't think so. I am willing to wait and see what happens to reevaluate if I was wrong.

For the most part, the people who voted late for me voted in all the ways that they normally rail against. At the least I find it suspicious. And frequently, people who get very argumentative and try to cover uncharacteristic behavior with real or bluffed anger have turned out to be wolves. In this case, I have a clue where else it could be coming from so I am trying to tease apart these post patterns to see if they are game related or not. As the focus here, I have less leverage than someone else, but I am also the only tool I can rely on to probe efficiently where I intend to look.

 

[Lupin21]

I find it interesting that Telgar hold is the one being singled out. Guis had an attempt N1, then they got MQ last night.