Dropping out of Medical School

[pre med 2014]

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Not sure why everyone is piling on Cubsfan10. I'm sure none of you would feel entirely comfortable getting on a plane if you knew the pilot was suffering from depression severe enough to interfere with his day to day function. I'm not saying the OP should be barred from medicine, but the refusal to even consider, as a global point, the implications of putting the lives of others into the hands of mentally ill people because doing so might result in hurt feelz is emblematic of today's society. Thou Shalt not Hurt Feelz seems to be the prime directive these days, superseding everything else.

I'd be more comfortable getting on a plane knowing if a pilot wanted to get help they were free to do so instead of either white fisting the problem or having to pay cash only in Mexico to stay under the radar


And just to be clear you're not talking about hurting someone's feelings, you're talking about putting a person into complete financial ruin with hundreds of thousands of debt not dischargeable in bankruptcy because you're offended at the idea of someone going to get treatment for a relatively common medical issue

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[TxsMed14]

So when you are burned out, how do you know if you should push through it or call it quits?

That's a great question, and the reason I decided to share my experience. I think if someone is feeling the way I was, they need to stop, get help and address the issue. The idea that 'medical school is supposed to be hard' kept me pushing longer than I should have. I hope it will help others with prevention. But if you get burned out, there's no shame stopping to evaluate what happened. Just don't keep pushing, or you'll bury yourself deeper. Now I'm trying to find my way back to where I was when I wanted to be a doctor.

If you don't mind, I added your question to the comment sections on my recent post. thanks for responding!

 

[TxsMed14]

In reading your blog, though there are only three posts, I do feel like I'm reading what will eventually be a post mortem on your possible career in medicine. I could be wrong. Its too bad, as it seems like you might have a lot to offer patients. While it's worthwhile to define the hurdles facing med students wrt the bell curve, which may be amplified at a top 10, they become less of a burden if your goal is always kept in mind. Should that goal be being the top 1% of the top 1%, then you might succeed and then find yourself wanting to be the top 0.1%. On the other hand, if med school is a path to getting a job that will make you happy, your position on the bell curve is more about "good enough?" This is a long-winded way of asking, "why medicine?"

Thanks for taking the time to read them - I've only recently had the courage to share my experience. I'd say, I was at a point where it was a post-mortem. but taking the time to reflect and get feedback from people has changed how I see things. Especially on the feed - like not using this time to study/take step 1! I realized I still feel tired when I think of going back, which is probably a symptom of where I am right now.

I still want to go into medicine for the same reasons. to use my skills and experience to positively impact the lives of others. The perfectionism is something I need to address, if I want to do that AND be happy.

I plan to continue writing, and include skills & research i've found helpful. i want my posts to be thought out and evidenced based so I am spacing them out weekly.

 

[whoops]

I'm a current MS2, and never failed an exam or rotation. I took a leave of absence last fall, which has stretched into five months and finally turning a corner on whether to drop out (I think it's time, despite $100k for two years at a private med school. Probably the heaviest factor in my decision). A lot of people have said I should 'just finish and then decide.' .. but that's a ton of money to then not become a physician. I can't transfer to a public school, because we are on a one-year classroom curriculum.

My school is giving me time to sort it out. There aren't too many recent threads on dropping out years, but I appreciate so much those who have done so in the past! I wanted to share my story, and welcome any input/advice from anyone else struggling with the decision. I've started putting my thoughts here if anyone wants to answer anonymously. MedSchoolDropOut.com

OP,

I have two posts on SDN, under the thread I started: "I think I made a terrible decision."

I felt similarly. Many people offered me advice in a very similar thread. I encourage you to read it: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/i-think-i-made-a-terrible-decision.442544/#post-5550478

I ultimately finished medical school, finding myself that there was almost nothing worse than the first and second years, third year barely tolerable, fourth year pretty great (as an exception, mainly because I didn't have to be there much). Went to residency. Found the first year pretty brutal but beyond that enjoyed residency a thousand times more than medical school. To this day, I can still honestly say that I hated medical school. I loved my residency program.

Now I am an emergency medicine attending, assistant medical director, husband, father, biomedical device consultant, who gets to spend various weekends working for professional sports franchises (they even pay me!), and I wouldn't go back and change a thing. I wish I had known this years ago, and told myself that, it may have made the journey less painful for me. It is hard to know when you are in the middle of it, though. I think the PROCESS itself is rough, and difficult, arduous and long. Many things are onerous when they should be simple. It is understandable that you feel the way that you do. Just know that you aren't alone in your feelings and there are folks on the other end, too, which you will be one day, once you find your own path.

 

[Trefoil]

I'm a current MS2, and never failed an exam or rotation. I took a leave of absence last fall, which has stretched into five months and finally turning a corner on whether to drop out (I think it's time, despite $100k for two years at a private med school. Probably the heaviest factor in my decision). A lot of people have said I should 'just finish and then decide.' .. but that's a ton of money to then not become a physician. I can't transfer to a public school, because we are on a one-year classroom curriculum.

My school is giving me time to sort it out. There aren't too many recent threads on dropping out years, but I appreciate so much those who have done so in the past! I wanted to share my story, and welcome any input/advice from anyone else struggling with the decision. I've started putting my thoughts here if anyone wants to answer anonymously. MedSchoolDropOut.com

A lot of us experience severe stress and burnout during medical school. It seems like you have locked into a state of rumination. I found these feelings peaked early in third year and then dissipated throughout the rest of the year. If you have the right mindset, you will start connecting to your patients in a wonderful way. The wrong mindset can send you down an endless path of cynicism.

It sounds like you are additionally coping with no longer being the top of your class. Our generation spends so much time in school that our self-worth is almost entirely attached to our grades. I would recommend finding worth outside of work and school. Find a hobby that fulfills you. In the end, it is just a job. I think you could likely find a field in medicine that allows you to find fulfillment from work and life. You just have to detach yourself from the grade and see this point in your life as a means to an end. If you finish the last two years (4th year is a breeze) and an intern year, you can always find a great job outside of clinical work (though I would argue that clinical practice is what makes medicine special).

I felt the same way at different points in medical school, but I can say that it gets better with confidence. You would be selling yourself short not to finish, but I do think the choice is yours and yours alone to make.

 

[TxsMed14]

OP,

I have two posts on SDN, under the thread I started: "I think I made a terrible decision."

I felt similarly. Many people offered me advice in a very similar thread. I encourage you to read it: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/i-think-i-made-a-terrible-decision.442544/#post-5550478

I ultimately finished medical school, finding myself that there was almost nothing worse than the first and second years, third year barely tolerable, fourth year pretty great (as an exception, mainly because I didn't have to be there much). Went to residency. Found the first year pretty brutal but beyond that enjoyed residency a thousand times more than medical school. To this day, I can still honestly say that I hated medical school. I loved my residency program.

Now I am an emergency medicine attending, assistant medical director, husband, father, biomedical device consultant, who gets to spend various weekends working for professional sports franchises (they even pay me!), and I wouldn't go back and change a thing. I wish I had known this years ago, and told myself that, it may have made the journey less painful for me. It is hard to know when you are in the middle of it, though. I think the PROCESS itself is rough, and difficult, arduous and long. Many things are onerous when they should be simple. It is understandable that you feel the way that you do. Just know that you aren't alone in your feelings and there are folks on the other end, too, which you will be one day, once you find your own path.

Thank you so much for sharing!! That's really helpful to know, that people go on and love the field after school. I think that's most important to me.

 

[hopefulERdoc251]

You're stuck now. I've seen this happen to people before and they all finish because they have to or the money/debt load will ruin them.

You should have realized you weren't cut out for med school beforehand. Thanks for taking up a spot.

Mean, I know. But, truth hurts and we're all thinking it so I'll say it.

Really.......you are part of the problem with stigmatizing mental illness. Rather than focusing on giving advice, you guilt trip the guy. Also...I sure as hell hope you aren't this "brutal" and "upfront" with your patients and show a bit more empathy when talking to them/trying to understand them.

 

[hopefulERdoc251]

Much respect to you, by no means I mean any offence, but.....

Having a DO after your name vs. a mental disorder are 2 different things.

Who would you choose to take care of your family?

A) mentally ill MD
B) overall healthy DO

(age, gender, and years of experience are the same)

 

[Montisumo]

That would lessen the applicant pool too severely.


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how do you even begin to empathize with another human without having some experience with mental illness yourself? The best doctors time and time again are the ones who have or are currently suffering through a mental illness. I'll go ahead and say what everyone's thinking @Cubsfan10, you need to grow the heck up and learn more about the world and medicine. Things are not rainbows and butterflies: challenges strengthen character and make us all better overall humans in the end.

 

[TxsMed14]

how do you even begin to empathize with another human without having some experience with mental illness yourself? The best doctors time and time again are the ones who have or are currently suffering through a mental illness. I'll go ahead and say what everyone's thinking @Cubsfan10, you need to grow the heck up and learn more about the world and medicine. Things are not rainbows and butterflies: challenges strengthen character and make us all better overall humans in the end.

My thought is that he is pre-med applicant? I brushed it off, bc I don't think a comment like that would occur to anyone outside the anxiety of application year. I've watched a lot of my classmates mature, it's frustrating but I think its just being young and with fewer life experiences outside of school. And honestly, I probably would feel bad if I was wasting an opportunity from someone else to become a great physician. But the number of medical students so greatly exceeds resident slots, the finally pool of docs won't be impacted. Plus, good number will graduate, change careers and not go on to residency. No one harrasses them for not becoming doctors.

 

[circulus vitios]

Drop out. Your loans are presumably all federal. You can go on PAYE -- just make the minimum payments for 20-25 years and save up for the tax bomb. I dropped out because I hated med school, albeit after 1 semester of MS1. I'm happy with my decision.

 

[jeffk805dent]

Drop out. Your loans are presumably all federal. You can go on PAYE -- just make the minimum payments for 20-25 years and save up for the tax bomb. I dropped out because I hated med school, albeit after 1 semester of MS1. I'm happy with my decision.

if I recall you switched to accounting right? My cousin says it aint too bad. Is it boring as hell or opposite of the stereotype?

 

[circulus vitios]

if I recall you switched to accounting right? My cousin says it aint too bad. Is it boring as hell or opposite of the stereotype?

Correct. I don't start my masters program for another 4 months, so I can't give you a true answer. I took an accounting elective in high school and enjoyed it. It's not the most exciting thing in the world, but the bigger picture -- the language of business and all that -- is exciting, and a CPA plus "Big 4" public accounting experience opens the gateways to a lot of other lucrative and engaging opportunities like senior/partnership roles in public accounting; careers in corporate finance; or as springboards (with sufficient networking and/or an MBA) to investment banking, equity research, etc.

 

[charmiedermie]

What, get back to you about second year? lol, I doubt my feels are gonna change, board studying is going more than fine. More worried about all the weddings this summer than anything school related.

I said clerkship so 3rd year. Although not really fair that you get to pick a site for each, but it will have to do.

 

[Mad Jack]

I said clerkship so 3rd year. Although not really fair that you get to pick a site for each, but it will have to do.

We have several campuses, but don't get to choose- it's a ranked lottery. It's not like we've got unlimited choices. Still, I did select one of the campuses with a better reputation in regard to both teaching and QoL.

 

[charmiedermie]

We have several campuses, but don't get to choose- it's a ranked lottery. It's not like we've got unlimited choices. Still, I did select one of the campuses with a better reputation in regard to both teaching and QoL.

Most people don't get to select third year sites based on lifestyle, so that will be confounding as to how you feel about third year.

 

[Mad Jack]

Most people don't get to select third year sites based on lifestyle, so that will be confounding as to how you feel about third year.

It still isn't fantastic, but it ain't hell. Still gonna be putting in nights and weekends on call during surg and OB. Regardless, I suppose you understand lifestyle concerns, given your field. I'll take a slightly improved lifestyle if available.

 

[charmiedermie]

It still isn't fantastic, but it ain't hell. Still gonna be putting in nights and weekends on call during surg and OB. Regardless, I suppose you understand lifestyle concerns, given your field. I'll take a slightly improved lifestyle if available.

I wasn't meaning anything mean towards you. I just meant that you'll feel very differently about third year depending on the lifestyle on the rotation. So if you got good lifestyle ones in OB-Gyn and Surgery, like at good community hospitals, your opinion would be way different.

 

[Mad Jack]

I wasn't meaning anything mean towards you. I just meant that you'll feel very differently about third year depending on the lifestyle on the rotation. So if you got good lifestyle ones in OB-Gyn and Surgery, like at good community hospitals, your opinion would be way different.

I am not saying you are incorrect, merely that things aren't puppy dogs and rainbows. My rotational experience might be better than the average, however, to that I will concede.

 

[Psai]

Drop out. Your loans are presumably all federal. You can go on PAYE -- just make the minimum payments for 20-25 years and save up for the tax bomb. I dropped out because I hated med school, albeit after 1 semester of MS1. I'm happy with my decision.

But...but...medical school is so easy! You just sit there all day with your books and computer, no big deal! The hospital is even climate controlled for your comfort! Have you even worked a single shift on an oil rig in the middle of the ocean for days on end with the sun beating down on you? Medical school will be a joke compared to that and so will residency. People today are so soft, thinking that comfortable book studying can be as hard as manual labor performed outdoors. I can definitely handle medical school, all you guys telling me that medical school is hard and sucks are haters and naysayers. I'll show you all.

 

[chipwhitley]

But...but...medical school is so easy! You just sit there all day with your books and computer, no big deal! The hospital is even climate controlled for your comfort! Have you even worked a single shift on an oil rig in the middle of the ocean for days on end with the sun beating down on you? Medical school will be a joke compared to that and so will residency. People today are so soft, thinking that comfortable book studying can be as hard as manual labor performed outdoors. I can definitely handle medical school, all you guys telling me that medical school is hard and sucks are haters and naysayers. I'll show you all.

Lol.

 

[pre med 2014]

But...but...medical school is so easy! You just sit there all day with your books and computer, no big deal! The hospital is even climate controlled for your comfort! Have you even worked a single shift on an oil rig in the middle of the ocean for days on end with the sun beating down on you? Medical school will be a joke compared to that and so will residency. People today are so soft, thinking that comfortable book studying can be as hard as manual labor performed outdoors. I can definitely handle medical school, all you guys telling me that medical school is hard and sucks are haters and naysayers. I'll show you all.

At least you get to see the sun working on an oil rig. 3rd year surg and ob/gyn rotations you'll be on your way to the hospital well before the sun comes out every single day of the week.


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[TxsMed14]

Hey everyone,

I want to thank you for all your input and advice. I've finally made my decision to leave medical school, and for me it was 100% the right one. Here is my reasoning and experience, for whatever value that adds to someone else struggling right now.

http://medicalschooldropout.com/index.php/2016/09/25/withdrawn/

 

[DaTruMD]

Hey everyone,

I want to thank you for all your input and advice. I've finally made my decision to leave medical school, and for me it was 100% the right one. Here is my reasoning and experience, for whatever value that adds to someone else struggling right now.

http://medicalschooldropout.com/index.php/2016/09/25/withdrawn/

Good luck on your journey. It takes more courage to drop out than to stick through it, in my opinion.

 

[Sardinia]

@TxsMed14 It seems you refused to take any psychiatric medication. Did you have a stigmatizing bias against taking them?

 

[TxsMed14]

@TxsMed14 It seems you refused to take any psychiatric medication. Did you have a stigmatizing bias against taking them?

Not sure what you are referring to, medication improved my quality of life during that period, although my symptoms have resolved since leaving that environment and I no longer need them. Many medical students receive medication treatment. It shouldn't play a role in whether to drop out or stay in, as long as symptoms are being treated.

In fact, our school provides us with resources at the beginning of rotations to identify the symptoms of depression, find therapists and MDs who treat medical students specifically, based on the high rates of depression at our school during this period.

 

[Sardinia]

Not sure what you are referring to. I'm very pro-medication, it has vastly improved my quality of life and always followed my doctors recommendations.

Medications weren't able to abate any of the symptoms brought about by being a medical school student?

 

[TxsMed14]

Medications weren't able to abate any of the symptoms brought about by being a medical school student?

In my case, I chose another direction in my life that would not require to be balanced with so much support medication, therapy, etc. BUT I have spoken with several students in my situation who are still on medications, and chose to stay in school. One just successfully applied to residency! So it is truly a person decision of different life goals, background, etc. Medicine is an extremely high stress field, that these days at least, asks far more of people than is realistic. It's understandable that medications would help someone manage the lifestyle if it was what you want.

Also, I should note that I connected with the medical board about my experience. I asked them how treatment affects physicians and certifications, litigation, etc. At least in NC, I learned that as physicians are treated, and have someone (MD) who can state their psychiatric competency, that is what is important. Issues only arise if someone is not getting treatment, and it begins to affect their standard of care.

 

[Sardinia]

@TxsMed14 What direction have you chosen? I somehow missed it even though I read your latest blog post.

 

[TxsMed14]

@TxsMed14 What direction have you chosen? I somehow missed it even though I read your latest blog post.

I'm applying to project management positions for non-profits in my area. I also started a small (teeny) business, that I may explore. Right now, kind of allowing things to be unclear. I think making the decision to leave, the biggest hurtle to overcome was fear of the unknown. But I'm following my gut and things seem to be working out like they should : )