Lost in Translation

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It seems that many of the users here are of white, black, Middle Eastern (so... white? :p), or South/South East Asian descent. But are there any users of Chinese/Taiwanese/Japanese/Korean descent?

Actually, many of my pre-med "friends" weren't even from this demographic. Is our market share shrinking :laugh:?

Anyway, share your experiences with this whole medicine thing here.
 
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BluMist

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What about us Mongolians?
 
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oshanimalia

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It seems that many of the users here are of white, black, Middle Eastern (so... white? :p), or South/South East Asian descent. But are there any users of Chinese/Taiwanese/Japanese/Korean descent?

Actually, many of my pre-med "friends" weren't even from this demographic. Is our market share shrinking :laugh:?

Anyway, share your experiences with this whole medicine thing here.
Yes. Asians in medicine are currently experiencing a slash. Why?

Politically correct: the demographic of the state should be represented properly in the proportion of the physician class, or so research claims that patients feel more comfortable with this. "Never mind the encroaching problem that is patient survey based healthcare".

Truth: there has always been a disdain for doctors that have terrible listening skills and bedside manner. There has been a push to "humanize" doctors, whether it be making their criteria prereqs to be "more well rounded", etc. Problem is, thanks to Hollywood and the general anti China media, people tend to associate Asians to being robotic and only good test takers with no leadership. This phenomenon is observed plenty of times not only in corporate offices, but in movies and tv shows (an otherwise intelligent or physically adept Asian character gets usurped by protagonist that is not Asian because protagonist has 'leadershipz' and 'emotion' ( and gets the submissive Asian girl, which is a whole other can of worms). I've seen some threads here where some higher ups inadvertently admit that these "robotic type Asians" are part of a factor as to why the mcat has changed. To be more blunt, this applies more to asian men than asian women, because asian women have had relatively more 'accepted' exposure in media (provided they are either 1) hypersexualized (Lucy Liu) or 2) married to a white dude that demonstrates their "assimilation" (Amy Tan) - again, whole other can of worms that I don't want to address here unless I want to be like JK Rowling and write 7 novels). http://www.asamnews.com/2015/03/07/tv-producer-asian-guys-in-my-show-not-gonna-happen/ <- anecdote of a dude in a Nickelodean exec room on a new show.

Harvard was recently sued by Asian American associations because they realized that well rounded Asian students that did awesome world changing things were not being fairly considered because there was a quota on Asians. This phenomenon is commonly called "goal changing" where the goal is constantly getting moved so the person trying to score never really gets it, even if he aimed right. This candidate scored well on tests? well duh, he's asian, all he does is study. Oh what? He played collegiate soccer and founded a health fraternity? Just padding his resume, he has no passion because he is asian and he is a robot. Of course, this isn't overtly said, because overt racism is addressed nowadays. It's the passive ones that go under the radar. It is a crappy feeling having sacrifice so much to create and do so many great things, only to not have them acknowledged because or "oh just another asian doing typical asian things", etc etc.

The interviews I've been to, I was literally one of two Asian guys, sometimes the only one. Idk what can be concluded from that, maybe all Asian dudes went to business? Lol

That being said, I think that it's not all bad, but it's important to be aware of these constantly fluctuating circumstances so you or your future kids won't be on the short end of the stick because of your race. To dismiss it because it's not necessarily happening to you personally is essentially not learning from history, and it will definitely repeat itself. Too many times I've been shamed for speaking up in these issues because "you're Asian why are you complaining", which is a whole level of ignorance within itself and dismissing my individual story because of my race. Keeping your head down and "working hard" will not solve anything. Any previous social movement, historical or otherwise, would not have happened if the people involved in the movement studied hard instead, did their own thing, and hoped society would change their views on certain issues.

Sorry for my rant, I will change this into more readable language once I'm done at the gym

Edit: screw it. It's 4am and I had the best workout sess. I'm hitting the sack.

Sent from my SM-G900V using SDN mobile
 
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^^^^^^

I applaud you. Thank you.

A Filipino here. Is that considered East Asian? I was led to believe it was Pacific Islander.
 

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On amcas Filipino is considered Asian (girlfriend who applied to med school is part Filipino), but I would be curious to see what happened if you applied as Pacific Islander. It'd definitely be a booster, although questionably ethical
 

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On amcas Filipino is considered Asian (girlfriend who applied to med school is part Filipino), but I would be curious to see what happened if you applied as Pacific Islander. It'd definitely be a booster, although questionably ethical
It backfires where I work.
 
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Brahnold Bloodaxe

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You guys are dropping from being over represented by 600% to only 500%. It's the end days indeed.

Nah,just kidding. I haven't seen any evidence for a drop in Asians to less than 600% of their share of the population. Which is great, cause personally I love me some Asian girls.
 
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Lucca

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Yes. Asians in medicine are currently experiencing a slash. Why?

Politically correct: the demographic of the state should be represented properly in the proportion of the physician class, or so research claims that patients feel more comfortable with this. "Never mind the encroaching problem that is patient survey based healthcare".

Truth: there has always been a disdain for doctors that have terrible listening skills and bedside manner. There has been a push to "humanize" doctors, whether it be making their criteria prereqs to be "more well rounded", etc. Problem is, thanks to Hollywood and the general anti China media, people tend to associate Asians to being robotic and only good test takers with no leadership. This phenomenon is observed plenty of times not only in corporate offices, but in movies and tv shows (an otherwise intelligent or physically adept Asian character gets usurped by protagonist that is not Asian because protagonist has 'leadershipz' and 'emotion' ( and gets the submissive Asian girl, which is a whole other can of worms). I've seen some threads here where some higher ups inadvertently admit that these "robotic type Asians" are part of a factor as to why the mcat has changed. To be more blunt, this applies more to asian men than asian women, because asian women have had relatively more 'accepted' exposure in media (provided they are either 1) hypersexualized (Lucy Liu) or 2) married to a white dude that demonstrates their "assimilation" (Amy Tan) - again, whole other can of worms that I don't want to address here unless I want to be like JK Rowling and write 7 novels). http://www.asamnews.com/2015/03/07/tv-producer-asian-guys-in-my-show-not-gonna-happen/ <- anecdote of a dude in a Nickelodean exec room on a new show.

Harvard was recently sued by Asian American associations because they realized that well rounded Asian students that did awesome world changing things were not being fairly considered because there was a quota on Asians. This phenomenon is commonly called "goal changing" where the goal is constantly getting moved so the person trying to score never really gets it, even if he aimed right. This candidate scored well on tests? well duh, he's asian, all he does is study. Oh what? He played collegiate soccer and founded a health fraternity? Just padding his resume, he has no passion because he is asian and he is a robot. Of course, this isn't overtly said, because overt racism is addressed nowadays. It's the passive ones that go under the radar. It is a crappy feeling having sacrifice so much to create and do so many great things, only to not have them acknowledged because or "oh just another asian doing typical asian things", etc etc.

The interviews I've been to, I was literally one of two Asian guys, sometimes the only one. Idk what can be concluded from that, maybe all Asian dudes went to business? Lol

That being said, I think that it's not all bad, but it's important to be aware of these constantly fluctuating circumstances so you or your future kids won't be on the short end of the stick because of your race. To dismiss it because it's not necessarily happening to you personally is essentially not learning from history, and it will definitely repeat itself. Too many times I've been shamed for speaking up in these issues because "you're Asian why are you complaining", which is a whole level of ignorance within itself and dismissing my individual story because of my race. Keeping your head down and "working hard" will not solve anything. Any previous social movement, historical or otherwise, would not have happened if the people involved in the movement studied hard instead, did their own thing, and hoped society would change their views on certain issues.

Sorry for my rant, I will change this into more readable language once I'm done at the gym

Edit: screw it. It's 4am and I had the best workout sess. I'm hitting the sack.

Sent from my SM-G900V using SDN mobile

This is a good post. Esp. The bit about nothing changing if everyone keeps their head down which is the only advice you see on these forums from adcoms. I do think on SDN the conversation tends to converge on ORM v. URM when the reality is that all minorities should show solidarity for one another and acknowledge the many forms of discrimination in this country and how they bias our organizational principals.East Asians, in general, are a fairly successful minority though compared to others
 
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Brahnold Bloodaxe

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Something I don't agree with is grouping Indian and East Asian people under the same category. Indians make up nearly half of the overall Asian candidate pool but only 1% of the population, while East Asians make up 5.6% of the population. When you crunch the numbers, you find that East Asians aren't overrepresented at all, though medical schools still see them as such.

It's not like they share any cultural history either. I can understand grouping Latino Americans under a single category, but East Asians and Indians? I mean Indians make great doctors, but when statistics say 17% of doctors in my hospital are Asian and I come to find out they are all Indian sans one, it is pretty misleading.

Yes and no. Lots of Indians in the hospital cause they come fresh off the boat as immigrant doctors. But in medical school, east Asians handily outnumber indians, just check that aamc publication that has data on medical schools, forgot what it's called. It breaks the Asian category down into ethnicities so you can even know how many Chinese vs Koreans there are.

I should know,cause the number of Koreans is what I used when selecting a med school. It's just my opinion, but Korean girls are the hottest Asian girls. All hot Asian girls are welcome though, i don't disciminate like those evil adcoms ;)
 
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Theeseesit

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Yes and no. Lots of Indians in the hospital cause they come fresh off the boat as immigrant doctors. But in medical school, east Asians handily outnumber indians, just check that aamc publication that has data on medical schools, forgot what it's called. It breaks the Asian category down into ethnicities so you can even know how many Chinese vs Koreans there are.

I should know,cause the number of Koreans is what I used when selecting a med school. It's just my opinion, but Korean girls are the hottest Asian girls. All hot Asian girls are welcome though, i don't disciminate like those evil adcoms ;)
Cringeworthy sexpat talk man -___-
 
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Brahnold Bloodaxe

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Here's an idea: let's not turn a good thread into a fetish thread kthx.

Nothing fetishistic about it. The phrase "Gentlemen prefer blondes" is such a staple of our culture that it's the first thing to show up in Google auto suggest when you start typing the word "gentlemen." If liking blondes is normal, so is liking Asians. The only way that wouldn't be the case is if you assume Asian girls are so ugly that only an unnatural sick fetish would allow one to fancy them over other categories of girls.

Else we have to change such an integral part of our cultural tradition into "fetishists prefer blondes" to stay logically consistent, and thats too much damn work. Carry on.;)
 
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ZedsDed

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Here's an idea: let's not turn a good thread into a fetish thread kthx.
Is it really a good thread though? I give it until noon (PT) before it degenerates into another ORM vs. URM disaster.
 
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AlphaBeta<3

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Here's an idea: let's not turn a good thread into a fetish thread kthx.
Lol I'm glad people see this is fetishization. They didn't get it when I said it before about black women

Yes. Asians in medicine are currently experiencing a slash. Why?

Politically correct: the demographic of the state should be represented properly in the proportion of the physician class, or so research claims that patients feel more comfortable with this. "Never mind the encroaching problem that is patient survey based healthcare".

Truth: there has always been a disdain for doctors that have terrible listening skills and bedside manner. There has been a push to "humanize" doctors, whether it be making their criteria prereqs to be "more well rounded", etc. Problem is, thanks to Hollywood and the general anti China media, people tend to associate Asians to being robotic and only good test takers with no leadership. This phenomenon is observed plenty of times not only in corporate offices, but in movies and tv shows (an otherwise intelligent or physically adept Asian character gets usurped by protagonist that is not Asian because protagonist has 'leadershipz' and 'emotion' ( and gets the submissive Asian girl, which is a whole other can of worms). I've seen some threads here where some higher ups inadvertently admit that these "robotic type Asians" are part of a factor as to why the mcat has changed. To be more blunt, this applies more to asian men than asian women, because asian women have had relatively more 'accepted' exposure in media (provided they are either 1) hypersexualized (Lucy Liu) or 2) married to a white dude that demonstrates their "assimilation" (Amy Tan) - again, whole other can of worms that I don't want to address here unless I want to be like JK Rowling and write 7 novels). http://www.asamnews.com/2015/03/07/tv-producer-asian-guys-in-my-show-not-gonna-happen/ <- anecdote of a dude in a Nickelodean exec room on a new show.

Harvard was recently sued by Asian American associations because they realized that well rounded Asian students that did awesome world changing things were not being fairly considered because there was a quota on Asians. This phenomenon is commonly called "goal changing" where the goal is constantly getting moved so the person trying to score never really gets it, even if he aimed right. This candidate scored well on tests? well duh, he's asian, all he does is study. Oh what? He played collegiate soccer and founded a health fraternity? Just padding his resume, he has no passion because he is asian and he is a robot. Of course, this isn't overtly said, because overt racism is addressed nowadays. It's the passive ones that go under the radar. It is a crappy feeling having sacrifice so much to create and do so many great things, only to not have them acknowledged because or "oh just another asian doing typical asian things", etc etc.

The interviews I've been to, I was literally one of two Asian guys, sometimes the only one. Idk what can be concluded from that, maybe all Asian dudes went to business? Lol

That being said, I think that it's not all bad, but it's important to be aware of these constantly fluctuating circumstances so you or your future kids won't be on the short end of the stick because of your race. To dismiss it because it's not necessarily happening to you personally is essentially not learning from history, and it will definitely repeat itself. Too many times I've been shamed for speaking up in these issues because "you're Asian why are you complaining", which is a whole level of ignorance within itself and dismissing my individual story because of my race. Keeping your head down and "working hard" will not solve anything. Any previous social movement, historical or otherwise, would not have happened if the people involved in the movement studied hard instead, did their own thing, and hoped society would change their views on certain issues.

Sorry for my rant, I will change this into more readable language once I'm done at the gym

Edit: screw it. It's 4am and I had the best workout sess. I'm hitting the sack.

Sent from my SM-G900V using SDN mobile
I tried making a thread about this before, this was a class discussion topic, about the immadculation and dehumanization of Asian men, but then it was hard for me to understand why "being smart" was a negative stereotype, even if (especially because) it increases people's expectations of you (rather than lowering it)
 
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Dr Tony T. Chopper

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Chinese guy here. Born in Hong Kong but became a US citizen. I came to America to pursue a medical career because I was allured by the prospects in being the deus ex machina in human misery. SARS was one of my early childhood memories where I was convinced my knack for the sciences could do some good.

Ever since I read Tolstoy's 'Ivan Ilych', I was convinced that being a physician confers front row seating to a precocious conception of death and dying. Learning about mortality was intoxicating to me, a Chinese guy in his twenties who was always taught by my culture that death was a taboo subject that we would do best to avert our gaze from.

Sorry for the rant, but I guess what I'm trying to say is, even though I am Chinese, my reasons for practicing medicine have come from mostly Indian and Russian literary figures. It is convenient but decidedly inaccurate to generalize Asian premeds into one big hyperacademic, score chasing super group when some of us do this for wholly other reasons and would appreciate fair consideration without the ORM labeling. :(
 
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AlphaBeta<3

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Great post. East asian here born in America but bilingual and have amazing bedside manner/compassion (from working as a CNA and other life experiences) and also presumed leadership roles (ironically in groups where asians are the minority too) in activities I was interested in (including finding a health/lifting fraternity at my undergrad - had over 80+ unique members throughout my undergrad career but I never made it into an official club/society so I was doing this not as a resume booster but as something i was passionate about).

Downside is my gpa is on the lower end due to laziness (3.4) but my MCAT is in the 91+ percentile. Are my chances a lot better since i'm the opposite of a stereotyipical asian applicant? Haha. Anyways good luck to my fellow Asians and I also agree Indians should be grouped in a separate category since MSAR data i see a lot more Indian students then actual East Asian students at most schools...

p.s. not to toot my own horn but i've always been called very handsome and tall my whole life so maybe thats what gave me the initiative and comfort to presume leadership positions all the time in the U.S. whereas most other east asians are shy and meek because they aren't tall/handsome...
Your GPA is definitely going to kill you.

Edit: do a WAMC thread instead
 
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Sardinia

I'm one of the aforementioned ORM races mentioned in the OP.
  • My uncle graduated from the UMKC program as a BA/MD. He became an OBGYN.
  • My grandfather was a FMG, foreign experience with the navy and worked in the US (aforementioned father of said uncle) as an OBGYN.
  • My other grandfather was also a doctor, met my other grandfather while they were both doctors in the navy and joined an NGO in Tanzania as an OBGYN.
  • We have two relatives that we always see at big get together(s) and I know that one specialized in robotic gastrointestinal surgery in Texas and the other is a urologist.
No one in my nuclear family is a physician or remotely involved in medicine. My father is a lawyer and my mother was a fashion designer (currently a substitute teacher). I personally agree with the ORM system and think that URMs should be more represented. However, I think that medical schools will always fail to capture the most important audience which are first generation trailblazers into the college system and students from lower income families. I do understand the system in the sense that Asians are currently the highest income generators in the United States being +$20,000 over the median due to taking educational advantages. I also think that when you're a primary care program director that there are reduced liability factors that go into accepting someone of the same race/income situation who will most likely be dealing with people who have the most serious complications because they are unable to afford frequent visits presuming all other factors are equal: Step scores, on-track student, good personality (not a psychopath), and they were on track all four years. In addition, when you throw FMGs into the match who have been waiting 5+ years to get ready for a residency the opportunity to practice looks progressively harder each year which is probably why they are opening up DO residencies to ACGME in 2020.
 
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magicdock

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Your GPA is definitely going to kill you.

Edit: do a WAMC thread instead

No thanks. I take everything on sdn said with a grain of salt. I know that I'll be an excellent doctor and am not worried about what a bunch of neurotic fear mongering premeds think.


My WAMC question was kind of sarcastic. I'm applying this cycle so I'll update the thread with my results in a few months.
 

ZedsDed

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I'm applying this cycle so I'll update the thread with my results in a few months.
Please don't. Whatever point you are trying to prove, there are more appropriate places to do it.
 
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magicdock

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Please don't. Whatever point you are trying to prove, there are more appropriate places to do it.

My point is that many Asian people don't pursue medical because of the ORM stigma and how if you don't get a 3.9+ as an ORM you have no chance, which is untrue. I gain no benefit from disproving this myth. Where is a more appropriate place to post this other then a pre med sdn thread about Asians...?


Regardless I've posted on here more than I would want to because I see it as mainly a toxic community so I will kindly show myself the door.
 
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ZedsDed

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My point is that many Asian people don't pursue medical because of the ORM stigma and how if you don't get a 3.9+ as an ORM you have no chance, which is untrue. I gain no benefit from disproving this myth. Where is a more appropriate place to post this other then a pre med sdn thread about Asians...?


Regardless I've posted on here more than I would want to because I see it as mainly a toxic community so I will kindly show myself the door.
Your n=1 experience doesn't prove or disprove a trend. And it sounds like you are more interested in "sticking it to pre-allo" than anything really productive. No thanks.
 

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I'm surprised no one has really talked about how different every single east asian culture is. Even though academics is an important aspect of every asian culture, each comes from a very different background. Sometimes, I find it unfair that even people of Chinese descent get lumped into the same category. A HK person is probably very different from a Taiwanese from a Mainlander. Even northern and southern (east and west as well..) China have a lot of socioeconomic differences. I am certain that other asians feel the same way.
 
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bannie22

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Inherent racism marketed as "affirmative action" throughout the system.

only when China fully develops into the world superpower would there be equality for east asians. maybe 40 years?
 
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The point of this thread is to talk about the East Asian experience in applying to medical school; any attempts to make it about dating, preference for Asian women or a discussion about AA will result in it being closed and those users subject to administrative action.
 
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terra330

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My point is that many Asian people don't pursue medical because of the ORM stigma and how if you don't get a 3.9+ as an ORM you have no chance, which is untrue. I gain no benefit from disproving this myth. Where is a more appropriate place to post this other then a pre med sdn thread about Asians...?


Regardless I've posted on here more than I would want to because I see it as mainly a toxic community so I will kindly show myself the door.
As with anything, the truth is somewhere in the middle. You don't necessarily need a 3.9+ if you're not gunning for a top school, but you do need to be competitive. For most people I would recommend at least a 3.6 unless they have some incredible extra curricular.


No one cares, sadly. Alll Asian groups are lumped together as URM in the end.
ORM*
 
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Sorry auto correct. Also, it comes to a case by case basis. Maybe if you're the child of Bhutanese refugees, being Asian helps, otherwise Asians are just over represented in healthcare and it's not seen as a plus.

So how do you get in then? Assuming good numbers. How would you craft your diversity essay?
 

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theres a reason why I decline to state my ethnicity on my amcas application.
 
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It's my understanding that diversity essays pertain to diversity of experience, not ethnicity.
While this is true, I did talk about race in mine. There are a lot of Asians applying, yes, but if you include race as a factor to how it shaped your view and on medicine (how it influenced and encouraged you to work with people of different backgrounds - I worked in the Chicago underserved for a while), it shouldn't be seen as a negative. I think the bad part is if you write it in a bitter tone like " I suffered discrimination too or "my culture is special" I guess.

My two cents.

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terra330

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If you decline to state ethnicity, they'll just find out if/when you interview.
I would argue that actually getting the interview is the hard part, so if declining to state gets you a leg up there (I doubt it does), it would absolutely be worth it.
 

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You guys are dropping from being over represented by 600% to only 500%. It's the end days indeed. Nah,just kidding. I haven't seen any evidence for a drop in Asians to less than 600% of their share of the population. Which is great, cause personally I love me some Asian girls.

+1

...but Korean girls are the hottest Asian girls. All hot Asian girls are welcome though, i don't disciminate like those evil adcoms ;)

Can you send a brother one? Jk.............. not really
 

bandwagoner

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Anyway.. to get back to the topic of the thread. My personal opinion is that it can definitely feel a little unfair when you hear that people want to discount your achievements and your work based on the fact that your culture traditionally emphasizes education, and that there are certain stereotypes that may affect how you are perceived on paper. However, I think that there are probably getting to be more asians (and other diverse people) on admissions committees and such who understand when someone truly special comes along. The burden probably rests on ourselves as applicants to learn how to express ourselves better. I certainly get the feeling that many east asians struggle to write about themselves in a way that stands out!
 
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kdn92

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Came across this thread and figured i'd bite:
East asian male, had 7 interviews, 3 acceptances this past cycle
At all my interviews i'd say the interview cohorts were mainly caucasian as expected, and maybe about 2-5 east asians including myself. I wouldn't consider that unusual
Race/ethnicity never came up during my interviews; felt that all my interviewers were just trying to get to know me as a person as you'd expect in a medical school interview. Even when i was asked about my parents (who are immigrants), it was just about what they did for a living and if it influenced my career aspirations. I also didn't really talk about my race in my applications so maybe that's why. Did list my ethnicity on amcas though but that's it.
Overall from my experience it felt like being an east asian guy had minimal effect on my being offered interviews or being accepted or waitlisted, but that's just me. But who knows what goes on at adcom meetings.
 
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Gibbward

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I'm a Filipino and I consider myself Asian, not Pacific Islander. No question. I mean the Philippines is part of the association of south East Asian nations. That's pretty Asian to me.
 
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salemstein

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Consider this for what its worth: When I didn't get in last cycle, I went all out going from school to school trying to find out what had happened. Sure, I got a few adcoms on the phone telling me how I needed more of this and that... etc. you know, your generic answers to why they rejected you. One school did allow me to come into their office to do a face-to-face with one of their adcoms, during which they actually pulled your file and went over what the committee thought about your application. There were three others with me during my time slot (all non-asian btw) and, because I'm a very curious individual, when the adcom was flipping through their files I saw extensive notes on their application from the committee. When she flipped to mine, the only thing I saw was the "Asian American" label underneath race/ethnicity circled in pencil. Nothing else. I cannot help but think what kinds of assumptions come with applying as an Asian, and how would my cycle been different had I been of another race.
 
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