Freaking out

[Coltuna]

I spent at least 4 hours/day in lab for the MSK lab practical and I had friends spending 8-10 hrs/day down there.

Did you all walk uphill both ways in the dead of winter too?

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[jcve34]

Did you all walk uphill both ways in the dead of winter too?

In all seriousness I spent that much time in the lab as well...

 

[libertyyne]

Just as a counterpoint to lab proponents. I spent ZERO time there and was an SD above my class and an sd and a half above national scores.I did spend a lot time anking it.

 

[Neopolymath]

Just as a counterpoint to lab proponents. I spent ZERO time there and was an SD above my class and an sd and a half above national scores.I did spend a lot time anking it.

Yeah, I thought it was hilarious how people were living in the lab and doing way worse than me with no previous anatomy course. It's definitely blanket advice for some reason though to go stand in there for hours.

 

[ohmanwaddup]

Yeah, I thought it was hilarious how people were living in the lab and doing way worse than me with no previous anatomy course. It's definitely blanket advice for some reason though to go stand in there for hours.

I think it just shows that time invested does not always equal success in medical school, which is a huge hurdle to get through for a lot of people myself included. You can spend 12 hours studying something but if its low yield or not much active learning, you are going to have a bad time.

 

[libertyyne]

Yeah, I thought it was hilarious how people were living in the lab and doing way worse than me with no previous anatomy course. It's definitely blanket advice for some reason though to go stand in there for hours.

I also did not have any prior anatomy. its the blind leading the blind. You have to know what you are looking at before you can identity anything on a cadaver, even then there is variation.

 

[Stagg737]

I think an important point to note is that this IS our second block. We took MCM, and then went straight into MSK. We haven't had Immuno yet. I think that might be a factor in why the average was so low, since people are saying that MSK is harder than Immuno.

That's a problem. KCU is a solid school, but they should have the curriculum figured out by now. I was in the first class for the new curriculum and there were definitely kinks, but for significant changes to be happening again is an issue that I think will just hurt them in the long run.

Did you all walk uphill both ways in the dead of winter too?

No, I just put in he work necessary to do well. Something which it seems the M1's haven't figured out yet (at least for anatomy). You can only blame so much on the faculty. We had one section where the tags were so bad the fellows apologized to us and our class average was still an 88 or 89. If the lab practical mean was near failing there may have been an issue with the teaching, but I don't believe that's the only problem (as someone who took the same practicals at the same school).

 

[Stagg737]

I also did not have any prior anatomy. its the blind leading the blind. You have to know what you are looking at before you can identity anything on a cadaver, even then there is variation.

So did you make anki cards with pisctures or something? I didn't use anki because the time it took to actually make a deck was inefficient, I can't imagine how long it would take to make one with pictures...

 

[libertyyne]

So did you make anki cards with pisctures or something? I didn't use anki because the time it took to actually make a deck was inefficient, I can't imagine how long it would take to make one with pictures...

i did. i took images out of netters and blanked out all the labels. it took 30 seconds to a minute per picture. By the end of the class I had the entire netters in my head. I dont go to the same school, but my school has a reputation for going overboard on anatomy. Im not saying my way is the only way. Its just that people have to find their own way and no one apprach may suit all people. Going to the lab frustrated me to no end. People would misidentify stuff with the utmost confidence and everyone would agree.

 

[Coltuna]

In all seriousness I spent that much time in the lab as well...

Oh yeah I was just poking fun. I think that spending a lot of time in lab is good advice for the majority of students; however, if I spent 4-5 hours per day in the lab during this last block, I most likely would've failed the written exam. Walking around looking for structures that may or may not exposed until like the week before the exam is a very low yield study strategy FOR ME. I'll gladly leave the extra out-of-class dissecting to the more kinesthetic learners in the class and stick to my anki cards of Olinger's cadaver images until like a week before the test.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

From most people's consensus, our KC practical was fair. I can 100% admit that I did not prepare well/accurately, and I accept 100% of the blame for my practical score. The upstairs test was another story, but yeah....I don't want too much blame to go on professors/outside people. I can accept when something is my fault, and the downstairs test certainly was.

To this day, we sing the tales of the fallen ones. Numerous brave souls among our peers did not make it through that course, and are either expelled or repeating first year. It's sad.

Damn...why would they repeat the year? Did they fail other courses as well? I thought if you failed a class, you just had to remediate it over the summer.

 

[PorkChopsOG]

From most people's consensus, our KC practical was fair. I can 100% admit that I did not prepare well/accurately, and I accept 100% of the blame for my practical score. The upstairs test was another story, but yeah....I don't want too much blame to go on professors/outside people. I can accept when something is my fault, and the downstairs test certainly was.


Damn...why would they repeat the year? Did they fail other courses as well? I thought if you failed a class, you just had to remediate it over the summer.

People historically fail MCM and immunology since they are rapid fire blocks and people aren't used to the pacing of med school. Then all they need is one more failure to have to repeat the year. So people would go into the first systems block, a very difficult one, with 2 failures already and they've only been in med school for a little over a month, and fail MSK. The reason they pushed immunology back behind MSK is so people have a chance with a longer block to get their **** together and figure out how to study.

 

[jcve34]

People historically fail MCM and immunology since they are rapid fire blocks and people aren't used to the pacing of med school. Then all they need is one more failure to have to repeat the year. So people would go into the first systems block, a very difficult one, with 2 failures already and they've only been in med school for a little over a month, and fail MSK. The reason they pushed immunology back behind MSK is so people have a chance with a longer block to get their **** together and figure out how to study.

Blows my mind that not only did they move up MSK but they had them start on UE.

 

[Neopolymath]

So did you make anki cards with pisctures or something? I didn't use anki because the time it took to actually make a deck was inefficient, I can't imagine how long it would take to make one with pictures...

Image occlusion with pictures is super fast to make and perfect for anatomy.

 

[Hippocrates II]

i did. i took images out of netters and blanked out all the labels. it took 30 seconds to a minute per picture. By the end of the class I had the entire netters in my head. I dont go to the same school, but my school has a reputation for going overboard on anatomy. Im not saying my way is the only way. Its just that people have to find their own way and no one apprach may suit all people. Going to the lab frustrated me to no end. People would misidentify stuff with the utmost confidence and everyone would agree.

The bolded above is the *exact* same experience I'm having in anatomy as well. Going into the practical, I thought I was going to bomb it given how confident people in my class are at identifying stuff, and here I am quietly wondering if they are correct or why I never seem to know anything while everyone is standing around nodding in agreement. This is why 80% of my anatomy prep now is just making flashcards off of cadaver pictures and studying those, and then going into the lab in off hours just to see how well my studying aligns with the actual cadaver.

 

[libertyyne]

The bolded above is the *exact* same experience I'm having in anatomy as well. Going into the practical, I thought I was going to bomb it given how confident people in my class are at identifying stuff, and here I am quietly wondering if they are correct or why I never seem to know anything while everyone is standing around nodding in agreement. This is why 80% of my anatomy prep now is just making flashcards off of cadaver pictures and studying those, and then going into the lab in off hours just to see how well my studying aligns with the actual cadaver.

I wouldnt take pictures of the cadaver. I would use rohens if you need actual pictures.

 

[shur711]

I agree, I only went into the lab three times outside of dissecting time, and a few times for the tutoring sessions, and I scored well above the average on this exam. Going into lab and digging around in a cadaver is an extremely low yield strategy in my opinion, UNLESS you already know your structures well enough. There were people in the lab who didn't know stuff that well and were just pointing and stuff and googling muscles to see if they could figure it out. That's a waste of time in my opinion.

I would suggest learning all the material that's anatomy related before going into the lab. Then you can go into the lab and solidify it and outside of lab focus on the non-anatomy stuff that's taught like histo/embryo etc.

As for anki, I used anki as well. Image occlusion is amazing, it doesn't take much time to make cards and making the cards is actually a form of actively studying because you really have to get the info to be able to make a card.

 

[Hippocrates II]

I wouldnt take pictures of the cadaver. I would use rohens if you need actual pictures.

Sorry, I didn't mean that I take the pictures myself. I'd probably get expelled for that haha. I use olingers atlas

 

[fldoctorgirl]

Image occlusion with pictures is super fast to make and perfect for anatomy.

Yep, this has been my strategy so far (shout out to @Hippocrates II for convincing me to go with what I know works for me) and I feel a lot more confident. I go through my cards, then pop into the anatomy lab to make sure I can translate from my cards to the real thing.

Any time I've gone into the lab without being prepped/with someone else, they just spend the entire time asking me "what's this? isn't this that?" and 95% of the time, they're totally wrong.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

On a side note, how do you all recommend studying for OS? Not sure if I should waste time making flashcards or just re-read my powerpoints/OSCEs a couple of times. I literally could care less about my grade in OS as long as I pass.

 

[Stagg737]

i did. i took images out of netters and blanked out all the labels. it took 30 seconds to a minute per picture. By the end of the class I had the entire netters in my head. I dont go to the same school, but my school has a reputation for going overboard on anatomy. Im not saying my way is the only way. Its just that people have to find their own way and no one apprach may suit all people. Going to the lab frustrated me to no end. People would misidentify stuff with the utmost confidence and everyone would agree.

Image occlusion with pictures is super fast to make and perfect for anatomy.

Gotcha, I actually tried that at one point and it was taking me 3-4 minutes per image to occlude 3-4 parts. I very rarely used anki because I was just really inefficient when it came to making the cards. So by the time I'd actually get done making cards I'd only have a couple days before the exam, which isn't enough time for spaced repetition and I ended up just finding a page and covering the labels with a note card as it was better for repetition. I'm also one of those people who got nothing out of making the cards while others learn a lot as they make them. So for me it was basically like not studying at all until a few days before the test.

I actually loved anki when I was able to use it and highly recommend it. The only issue is that if you're not efficient at making the cards it can be a huge time sink. If people are going to use anki I recommend starting early when everyone else is also still figuring out how to study. It's a lot harder to adjust if you try and switch later when everyone else has a solid study method down and you're trying to switch.

 

[ololona]

You better now?

 

[chizledfrmstone]

We had a group of 8 people and would cover the entire list until all of us could identify the structures. I wish we were smart enough to just learn everything in lab time. You have to do what you have to do in order to pass.

Med school isn't just about learning medicine. It's about learning how to assimilate a ton of information in a short amount of time.

Just thinking about those lab coats makes me want to puke.

 

[ZatAnteater]

As long as you're not in the bottom 10% of your class, you're fine.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

You better now?

Yep...but I'll let you know next Friday lol. I just want to pass.

 

[pseud0]

Just thinking about those lab coats makes me want to puke.

i still have my lab scrubs for some reason in my closet. They told me not to use the nice ones in there because you will NEVER get the smell out. I thought meh a bit of this a bit of that should get it out

I've washed them like 10 times trying to get the smell out. It will NEVER come out.

 

[workaholic181]

Only thing I would add OP is try not to focus on the number you need. I have a couple classmates who were playing catch up in first block who were fixated on the scores they would need to get and it drove them up the wall. Just take a deep breath and focus on the material.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

BTW Sab or any other KCU students that commented on here, is it true that KCU switched back over to the DO shelf exams for 3rd year? Heard some rumors...

 

[sab3156]

BTW Sab or any other KCU students that commented on here, is it true that KCU switched back over to the DO shelf exams for 3rd year? Heard some rumors...

Yes, unfortunately the extraordinary geniuses of medical education that run KCU decided to switch to the NBOME shelf exams. Moreover, they have decided to not pay for any "USMLE focused" qbanks or prep material for us, in favor of the COMBANK. Praise be to AT Still's sacrum. We are so blessed to be part of this amazing experience.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

Yes, unfortunately the extraordinary geniuses of medical education that run KCU decided to switch to the NBOME shelf exams. Moreover, they have decided to not pay for any "USMLE focused" qbanks or prep material for us, in favor of the COMBANK. Praise be to AT Still's sacrum. We are so blessed to be part of this amazing experience.

 

[Mass Effect]

As long as you're not in the bottom 10% of your class, you're fine.

Even those in the bottom 10% will be fine. Just don't fail out.

 

[Ho0v-man]

i did. i took images out of netters and blanked out all the labels. it took 30 seconds to a minute per picture. By the end of the class I had the entire netters in my head. I dont go to the same school, but my school has a reputation for going overboard on anatomy. Im not saying my way is the only way. Its just that people have to find their own way and no one apprach may suit all people. Going to the lab frustrated me to no end. People would misidentify stuff with the utmost confidence and everyone would agree.

You should share that deck if it’s that good. I could not find a good deck for anatomy and was one of those poor fools who had to live in the lab. You could make this practice a thing of the past and be the hero ms1 needs.

 

[fourandtwo]

I go to KCU like OP does. I know a lot of people have commented here and have said that the practical was really fair. I, too, thought it was fair even though I received a failing mark on it. What happened was that there was just a ton of info and I was never ever able to catch up. MSK was our 2nd block (rather than the 3rd), histo and embryo was highly emphasized, and back/upper extremity came before lower. All this combined, I think, contributed to our lower average score. We were all busy studying for everything all the time so even though the practical was fair, none of us were experts on it unless you happened to be the type that caught onto your way of studying for anatomy relatively quickly. A lot of my friends took too much time studying for bones/arthrology. What we should have done was just glance at bones/arthrology, study hardcore for myology/neurovasculature so that we knew what was going on during lab. I love Olinger- I think he's a wonderful professor and he's hilarious, but it was partially the way he presented the material. It made us think we needed to knew the bones/arthrology first.

Also, some people mentioned they didn't see many students in the lab. I think that is highly group dependent. Most of my friends, including myself, were in lab A LOT. In fact, a lot of us are spending LESS time in lab for lower extremity. I think what happened was that we just weren't efficient during our lab time. Like, I honestly didn't even get to the brachial plexus until 3 days before the practical. So while I was looking at the structures in lab, I wasn't really retaining it. And when I finally knew it, I only had 1 day to go over it with cadavers.

That's my personal 2 cents. The practical and upstairs tests were both fair. There was just tooooo much info, and most of us didn't catch onto how to study for anatomy quick enough. This is coming from a person who failed both exams.

 

[Magus5454]

Just FYI, the Joplin practical sucked. I walked out feeling I did awesome, then I got my grade back. And I put in the lab time, the drawing time, and the studying time.

Also one thing that irritated me is that for the UE, KC And Joplin got the material in two different ways.

 

[PorkChopsOG]

Also one thing that irritated me is that for the UE, KC And Joplin got the material in two different ways.

Welcome to the bane of our 1st year experience last year.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

I had forgotten how much preclinical years sucked.

 

[sky778]

I came into anatomy with zero previous knowledge of anatomy and made it through, so I'm not sure why our average was so low since the practical is 100% reliant on memorization and regurgitation, and I came into that class as unprepared as one could be. If I could do it, anyone could. I suspect people just didn't put in the time in the lab as I saw the same 15-20 people in the labs outside of class pretty much every time I went. It wasnt until the day before the test that everyone appeared in the lab. I'm all for calling out poor teaching when I see it, and I thought they did a piss poor job preparing is for the upstairs test, but I will maintain the practical was very fairly presented.



That brings up an interesting point and makes me wonder if our practical average is low because Joplin was given a very difficult exam. I do think it's rather bs that we are given the same test while Joplin receives far better material imo.

I will say this in a respectful manner - anatomy by all means IS one of the most challenging class for all medical students and this is coming from a top anatomist in the world who is also an educator for the medical field. You are not in the lab 24/7 so the fact that you think your peers don’t put as much effort needed to ace the class is ignorant. We get it, some people are just good at anatomy and you may be one of them. But never point fingers at your classmates and think that they didn’t study as hard as they need to. Please be humble and professional.

 

[Roxas]

I had forgotten how much preclinical years sucked.

 

[ohmanwaddup]

Just FYI, the Joplin practical sucked. I walked out feeling I did awesome, then I got my grade back. And I put in the lab time, the drawing time, and the studying time.

Also one thing that irritated me is that for the UE, KC And Joplin got the material in two different ways.

Lol same my dude, thought i had saved my written score, andddddd once again was below average. Will I ever be average? who the heck knows

 

[NecrotizingFasciitis]

Image occlusion with pictures is super fast to make and perfect for anatomy.

I advocate for this type of thing. I used quizlet last year and made flashcards for everything we needed to know in anatomy lab (and lecture exam.) The only time I went into lab was for tutoring, and towards the end of the year I didn't do that either. I scored typically 85-95% on practicals. If I would have known how to use Anki earlier, I would have 100% been using image occlusion b/c it takes dramatically less time to make FC's.

I still remember getting Spinal Accessory N. correct one practical, despite never seeing it in real life because I used Dr. Olinger's atlas pictures for my flashcards, and he tags things exactly how they look in his book.

That being said, if you are a really hands-on person maybe finding a lab group to hit the lab with a few times a week is a good idea. Have someone ask you lecture material while you try to identify anatomy or something.

On a side note, how do you all recommend studying for OS? Not sure if I should waste time making flashcards or just re-read my powerpoints/OSCEs a couple of times. I literally could care less about my grade in OS as long as I pass.

Know the day AT Still flew the flag of osteopathy into the breeze. We were asked that multiple times throughout the year, despite it being a useless history factoid. It's a free point(s).

Overall, OS is a lot more conceptual than I think people give it credit for. Once I started putting in some time to understand the conceptual justifications behind the OMM stuff, life became a lot easier & involved far less memorization. If you put in the effort to understand the concepts behind the treatment modalities, and then read through the OSCE's maybe 2x, you will absolutely have no problem passing.

Also, good luck in MSK. You've got a lot of support; we're all behind you. Immunology will likely feel far less stressful because you did MSK first. Not sure why admin decided to have MSK be your second class... ya'll need your dose of Dr. Shnyra before entering the bowels of MSK.

 

[Roxas]

Lol same my dude, thought i had saved my written score, andddddd once again was below average. Will I ever be average? who the heck knows

 

[fldoctorgirl]

Also, good luck in MSK. You've got a lot of support; we're all behind you. Immunology will likely feel far less stressful because you did MSK first. Not sure why admin decided to have MSK be your second class... ya'll need your dose of Dr. Shnyra before entering the bowels of MSK.

Thank you! I'm just trucking on day by day....I've accepted that whatever happens at this point will happen.

 

[futuredoctor1995]

Thank you! I'm just trucking on day by day....I've accepted that whatever happens at this point will happen.

That is exactly how I feel about this test. We studied for it and we can't do much so its best to just accept what we have and move on. I am nervous about it too but whatever happens is for the best.

 

[Mr. D.O.five]

Yes, unfortunately the extraordinary geniuses of medical education that run KCU decided to switch to the NBOME shelf exams. Moreover, they have decided to not pay for any "USMLE focused" qbanks or prep material for us, in favor of the COMBANK. Praise be to AT Still's sacrum. We are so blessed to be part of this amazing experience.

Bet he's sacral rocking in his grave right now

 

[chizledfrmstone]

What are the curriculum changes?

Is Puthoff still teaching Pathology?

I can't even imagine histology and embryology being in the curriculum since we never had that.

 

[Hippocrates II]

Just FYI, the Joplin practical sucked. I walked out feeling I did awesome, then I got my grade back. And I put in the lab time, the drawing time, and the studying time.

Also one thing that irritated me is that for the UE, KC And Joplin got the material in two different ways.

I am beyond frustrated with having two separate classes being presented different material, and then having our grades averaged together. I think we (KC) got the easier practical this time (from what I've heard, at least), but myself and many classmates agree you guys get far better lecture material, and it doesn't sound like you have fellows teaching a lot of your classes like we lately have had. Many of us ignore our material now and use the joplin powerpoints and tutoring info. My biggest question is that if they're going to double down on this nonsense of combining our classes despite being taught differently, why don't the lecturers at least teach from the same damn powerpoint? It seems like total nonsense to me to have two different professors making two different powerpoints that stress two different POVs.

I will say this in a respectful manner - anatomy by all means IS one of the most challenging class for all medical students and this is coming from a top anatomist in the world who is also an educator for the medical field. You are not in the lab 24/7 so the fact that you think your peers don’t put as much effort needed to ace the class is ignorant. We get it, some people are just good at anatomy and you may be one of them. But never point fingers at your classmates and think that they didn’t study as hard as they need to. Please be humble and professional.

I assure you I am neither gifted in anatomy nor arrogant in my nonexistent abilities. I am well aware that many people did put in the time and didn't do well. Anyone can find themselves in a situation where they do a good job in anatomy and learn 80% of the structure list, and then get dinged repeatedly on the other 20% of material. It happens to all of us. Also, I would never presume to suggest my time in the anatomy lab was solely indicative of how much time other people were putting in. I'm more basing that off of the fact that an anatomy fellow told our table how surprised they were with how little our class went to the lab after-hours (this was after a guy in my group was complaining about the practical to them), and how sparse attendance was to many tutoring sessions. In any event, it appears things have changed because it's shoulder to shoulder in the anatomy lab now. Take that for what you will.

Lol same my dude, thought i had saved my written score, andddddd once again was below average. Will I ever be average? who the heck knows

Don't forget that the average person (technically) in our classes have previous anatomy experience, so to even be approaching average without any past/significant anatomy experience is a win IMO. There is one guy in my class that has some sort of advanced degree related to anatomy and never goes to lab outside of dissection, and then did great on the last test. I'm sure there are many people like that, maybe not to the same degree, that are bumping up the averages for the rest of us.

 

[ohmanwaddup]

I am beyond frustrated with having two separate classes being presented different material, and then having our grades averaged together. I think we (KC) got the easier practical this time (from what I've heard, at least), but myself and many classmates agree you guys get far better lecture material, and it doesn't sound like you have fellows teaching a lot of your classes like we lately have had. Many of us ignore our material now and use the joplin powerpoints and tutoring info. My biggest question is that if they're going to double down on this nonsense of combining our classes despite being taught differently, why don't the lecturers at least teach from the same damn powerpoint? It seems like total nonsense to me to have two different professors making two different powerpoints that stress two different POVs.



I assure you I am neither gifted in anatomy nor arrogant in my nonexistent abilities. I am well aware that many people did put in the time and didn't do well. Anyone can find themselves in a situation where they do a good job in anatomy and learn 80% of the structure list, and then get dinged repeatedly on the other 20% of material. It happens to all of us. Also, I would never presume to suggest my time in the anatomy lab was solely indicative of how much time other people were putting in. I'm more basing that off of the fact that an anatomy fellow told our table how surprised they were with how little our class went to the lab after-hours (this was after a guy in my group was complaining about the practical to them), and how sparse attendance was to many tutoring sessions. In any event, it appears things have changed because it's shoulder to shoulder in the anatomy lab now. Take that for what you will.



Don't forget that the average person (technically) in our classes have previous anatomy experience, so to even be approaching average without any past/significant anatomy experience is a win IMO. There is one guy in my class that has some sort of advanced degree related to anatomy and never goes to lab outside of dissection, and then did great on the last test. I'm sure there are many people like that, maybe not to the same degree, that are bumping up the averages for the rest of us.

Lol this funny because a lot of us at Joplin greatly prefer Wright over carter and have been using his material exclusively.

 

[BellaWriterChic]

Lol this funny because a lot of us at Joplin greatly prefer Wright over carter and have been using his material exclusively.

I use both. I found a way to make it work but I agree with this statement. Don't know if this is something anyone has tried but I have been drawing relationships, paths of arteries/nerves, spaces, whatever I can. I just carry sheets of paper with me. Especially for spaces and some histo, it helps to visualize the concepts in your own hand.

Man I can't wait for Friday night.

Sent from my SM-G892A using SDN mobile

 

[Hippocrates II]

Lol this funny because a lot of us at Joplin greatly prefer Wright over carter and have been using his material exclusively.

Fair enough, I'm sure it goes both ways depending on the prof haha. I like wright, but I find pretty much all of the histo stuff on your end is way better.

 

[Magus5454]

Fair enough, I'm sure it goes both ways depending on the prof haha. I like wright, but I find pretty much all of the histo stuff on your end is way better.

Oh I agree Dennis is better. I like Wright over Carter though