Friend lied on application?

[lm1106]

Hi guys, so someone I know (not really a friend but more of an acquaintance as a fellow officer in an org) has been bragging about how she blatantly lied on her med school applications about her ECs and said things like she came up with xyz program even though it was actually a different officer who did it. She also brags about how she exaggerated her involvement in a bunch of things, like saying she came up with specific big fundraiser ideas even though it was actually someone else’s idea and she was just part of a committee that helped execute it.

Am I supposed to do something about this or just ignore it?? Is there anything I CAN do besides tell her how f-ed up that is? I feel like it’s so messed up?

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[westsidestoryz]

Mind your own business. Liars get caught eventually down the road.

 

[878956]

LOL, I have a colleague who is applying this cycle that stated he is an African American male (he is Caucasian), shaved his head and eyebrows. Needless to say, he's got an interview at Harvard, Georgetown, Hopkins, NYU and accepted to Rochester.

There's nothing you can do beyond contacting admissions and reporting them to the school. AAMC doesn't care about these things nor will they investigate. Admissions is a dirty game and it is not played fair. Life sucks.

 

[AsepticTechnique]

She'll get caught up either in an interview or somewhere down the road lying about something else.

 

[Blazers_33]

LOL, I have a colleague who is applying this cycle that stated he is an African American male (he is Caucasian), shaved his head and eyebrows. Needless to say, he's got an interview at Harvard, Georgetown, Hopkins, NYU and accepted to Rochester.

There's nothing you can do beyond contacting admissions and reporting them to the school. AAMC doesn't care about these things nor will they investigate. Admissions is a dirty game and it is not played fair. Life sucks.

Seriously? Thats terrible

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

LOL, I have a colleague who is applying this cycle that stated he is an African American male (he is Caucasian), shaved his head and eyebrows. Needless to say, he's got an interview at Harvard, Georgetown, Hopkins, NYU and accepted to Rochester.

There's nothing you can do beyond contacting admissions and reporting them to the school. AAMC doesn't care about these things nor will they investigate. Admissions is a dirty game and it is not played fair. Life sucks.

So what, they didn’t think it was weird when he showed up and was white? Or did Rochester just not care?

 

[NYCVillain]

It’s one thing to lie on your application, but I think it’s on a completely new level to boast about lying on your application. Stupidity and snitching on yourself at its finest, smh

 

[lm1106]

Mind your own business. Liars get caught eventually down the road.

She'll get caught up either in an interview or somewhere down the road lying about something else.

Just-world hypothesis? Give me that 132 on P/S amiright

But seriously yeah I hope so... Just feels frustrating since I know about it but can’t do anything

 

[PapaGuava]

@H20_Jay
How did Rochester react to his interview? That’s crazy haha. Sometimes personal pride is a not a thing with people.

 

[878956]

So what, they didn’t think it was weird when he showed up and was white? Or did Rochester just not care?

Well they accepted him, so you be the judge...

 

[NYCVillain]

Well they accepted him, so you be the judge...

Hahah he’s gonna be in trouble once his hair starts to grow back, or does he plan on staying shaved for the rest of his life

 

[puahate]

Well they accepted him, so you be the judge...

Pretty disgusting. No one wants to experience being black until they are applying for schools.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Well they accepted him, so you be the judge...

I mean, it could have been a big coincidence. Maybe it’s a closed file interview and the interviewer didn’t mention the race in their write up so his cover wasn’t blown.

 

[878956]

I mean, it could have been a big coincidence. Maybe it’s a closed file interview and the interviewer didn’t mention the race in their write up so his cover wasn’t blown.

UR is open file. But, I see your point.

 

[lm1106]

LOL, I have a colleague who is applying this cycle that stated he is an African American male (he is Caucasian), shaved his head and eyebrows. Needless to say, he's got an interview at Harvard, Georgetown, Hopkins, NYU and accepted to Rochester.

Why did he shave his eyebrows tho

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Why did he shave his eyebrows tho

Clearly black people don’t have eyebrows.

 

[deleted938090]

That's quite disgusting. I wouldn't feel bad at all about calling them out on it. What would you do if you saw someone cheating?

Cheating is anathema here and people don't hesitate to report.

 

[878956]

Pretty disgusting. No one wants to experience being black until they are applying for schools.

Word up.

 

[younggotti]

LOL, I have a colleague who is applying this cycle that stated he is an African American male (he is Caucasian), shaved his head and eyebrows. Needless to say, he's got an interview at Harvard, Georgetown, Hopkins, NYU and accepted to Rochester.

Please please pleas say you’re joking...please. This man sounds like the dumbest kind of person ever. If this won’t get your license revoked I honestly do not know what will. What the absolute ****. What the ****.

 

[younggotti]

Like serious man, please hit us with the “jk!!!!!”

 

[878956]

Hahah he’s gonna be in trouble once his hair starts to grow back, or does he plan on staying shaved for the rest of his life

I highly doubt it will matter once he schools starts as long as the school can report the numbers...

 

[878956]

Like serious man, please hit us with the “jk!!!!!”

Nope no joke. Sorry bro.

 

[getdown]

lol. Dude gamed the system and won. That's on the schools though. You expect some other ethnicity and you get a white guy instead and you don't catch it ... that's on you.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

lol. Dude gamed the system and won. That's on the schools though. You expect some other ethnicity and you get a white guy instead and you don't catch it ... that's on you.

Yeah, it's on them. It's still on him for being a piece of ****.

 

[climbrunskirepeat]

lol. Dude gamed the system and won. That's on the schools though. You expect some other ethnicity and you get a white guy instead and you don't catch it ... that's on you.

I assume that if it doesn't catch up to them now, it could impact them in the future. They still have to apply to residency and maybe fellowship, if this comes to light, it would be pretty terrible for them.

 

[Stagg737]

So what, they didn’t think it was weird when he showed up and was white? Or did Rochester just not care?

I didn't realize Mindy Kaling's brother had re-applied for med school...

 

[bananafish94]

If that story is true, which it almost certainly isn't, that guy will be living in a Hell that pales in comparison to getting rejected from medical school. Knowing that every single day there is a chance that somebody will discover his lie, and the whole ruse will come crashing down on him. All while that interest accrues and he gets farther and farther past the point of no return, bit by bit. I think that would drive me insane.

 

[Stagg737]

@lm1106 , this may be advice out of the norm, but please report this person. You can inform the dean of your school about their dishonesty or write an anonymous letter to the medical school. If you have proof send it as well. I realize this may go against other's advice, but I wouldn't want to work alongside that person and I certainly would not want my friends or family being treated by her. People say "it'll catch up to her", but if it keeps getting kicked down the line for someone else to take care of then it won't.

@LizzyM , @Goro , @gonnif , I'd be interested to hear what your take is on cases like this. Would you want to be informed of someone who knowingly lied on their applications? I know the answer will be "it would get caught in an interview", but what if they got an acceptance? You're the gatekeepers to the actual beginning of this career path, what say you?

If that story is true, which it almost certainly isn't, that guy will be living in a Hell that pales in comparison to getting rejected from medical school. Knowing that every single day there is a chance that somebody will discover his lie, and the whole ruse will come crashing down on him. All while that interest accrues and he gets farther and farther past the point of no return, bit by bit. I think that would drive me insane.

Mindy Kaling's brother did it and attended SLU for 2 years without every being caught. He dropped out to start his own business, but apparently had scholarship offers from several med schools including Emory with a 3.1 GPA and 31 MCAT. Just look up Vijay Chokal-Ingram, there's plenty of stories about it.

 

[Goro]

@lm1106 , this may be advice out of the norm, but please report this person. You can inform the dean of your school about their dishonesty or write an anonymous letter to the medical school. If you have proof send it as well. I realize this may go against other's advice, but I wouldn't want to work alongside that person and I certainly would not want my friends or family being treated by her. People say "it'll catch up to her", but if it keeps getting kicked down the line for someone else to take care of then it won't.

@LizzyM , @Goro , @gonnif , I'd be interested to hear what your take is on cases like this. Would you want to be informed of someone who knowingly lied on their applications? I know the answer will be "it would get caught in an interview", but what if they got an acceptance? You're the gatekeepers to the actual beginning of this career path, what say you?



Mindy Kaling's brother did it and attended SLU for 2 years without every being caught. He dropped out to start his own business, but apparently had scholarship offers from several med schools including Emory with a 3.1 GPA and 31 MCAT. Just look up Vijay Chokal-Ingram, there's plenty of stories about it.

I personally would want to know if someone lied about their ethnicity to take advantage of the URM policy, but for stuff like padding of hours, keep in mind that contacts do get checked up on, precisely for this reason. So the OP's ying friend may indeed be caught, if they make it past the interview.

One of the risks we face is if the complaint is honest, or just made by someone with a grudge.

 

[LizzyM]

Short of a DNA test, how are you going to prove a lie about ethnicity? Proving that someone had an initial idea versus someone who was a member of the team that carried the idea to fruition would be almost impossible.

As long as schools have a strong motivation to admit URM candidates (LCME requires efforts to have a diverse student body) there will be schools that game the system by blindly accepting applicants' self-identification because it is a win for the school. That a few liars get admitted is considered, perhaps, something that we choose to live with if the alternative would be no motivation for schools to admit URM candidates and far fewer real URMs matriculating/graduating/practicing medicine/joining the ranks of faculty.

 

[878956]

If that story is true, which it almost certainly isn't, that guy will be living in a Hell that pales in comparison to getting rejected from medical school. Knowing that every single day there is a chance that somebody will discover his lie, and the whole ruse will come crashing down on him. All while that interest accrues and he gets farther and farther past the point of no return, bit by bit. I think that would drive me insane.

I have no incentive to fabricate this story. I apologize for your denial of the reality we live in.

 

[Peter Pan.]

LOL, I have a colleague who is applying this cycle that stated he is an African American male (he is Caucasian), shaved his head and eyebrows. Needless to say, he's got an interview at Harvard, Georgetown, Hopkins, NYU and accepted to Rochester.

There's nothing you can do beyond contacting admissions and reporting them to the school. AAMC doesn't care about these things nor will they investigate. Admissions is a dirty game and it is not played fair. Life sucks.

I know a guy who claimed he is African American born in Egypt. Barely any volunteering, little research, 501 MCAT and already has 6 acceptances. All DO schools. No one has brought it up in interviews which is odd. 12 interviews. Insane.

 

[Peter Pan.]

But how do people get away with claiming African American but clearly aren’t? Someone I know did it and thinks he was in the clear to schools that had closed file interviews. Would that be the case?

 

[878956]

But how do people get away with claiming African American but clearly aren’t? Someone I know did it and thinks he was in the clear to schools that had closed file interviews. Would that be the case?

Yea if it closed file interview, then I can't imagine repercussions.

 

[lm1106]

Wow y’all I’m appalled by all these anecdotes. Makes me wonder how many former applicants have done similar or worse things, and are now doing shady things as physicians lol

 

[LAIsTheBestPlaceEver]

Been exactly your position. It was hard to let it go but you gotta let it go.

 

[878956]

I know a guy who claimed he is African American born in Egypt. Barely any volunteering, little research, 501 MCAT and already has 6 acceptances. All DO schools. No one has brought it up in interviews which is odd. 12 interviews. Insane.

To be honest, I don't think schools care enough to do anything about it. Like LizzyM said, schools that struggle with diversity will just take what the candidate say on their AMCAS and run with it to help "diversify" their incoming class.

 

[LizzyM]

To be honest, I don't think schools care enough to do anything about it. Like LizzyM said, schools that struggle with diversity will just take what the candidate say on their AMCAS and run with it to help "diversify" their incoming class.

They will take the AMCAS self-identification at face value (pardon the pun), if they choose to admit. Some adcom members get salty about people claiming to be something they aren't, particularly if it looked like an opportunity to game the system. So, it isn't a slam dunk to get admitted as a person claiming to be URM.

 

[Drakozord X]

Unfortunately, there is always a flaw in any system. That's the sad reality we live in.

 

[Stagg737]

I personally would want to know if someone lied about their ethnicity to take advantage of the URM policy, but for stuff like padding of hours, keep in mind that contacts do get checked up on, precisely for this reason. So the OP's ying friend may indeed be caught, if they make it past the interview.

One of the risks we face is if the complaint is honest, or just made by someone with a grudge.

Obviously must be taken into account. But if said complaintant has evidence that the person lied (texts for example), would you want to know? If it was proven they lied, what would your school do about it? Would you contact their UG institution?

Mostly interested in the hypothetical as I've found this scenario is far more common than I ever initially thought.

 

[LizzyM]

Obviously must be taken into account. But if said complaintant has evidence that the person lied (texts for example), would you want to know? If it was proven they lied, what would your school do about it? Would you contact their UG institution?

Mostly interested in the hypothetical as I've found this scenario is far more common than I ever initially thought.

You are a resident but let's promote you to Associate Dean for Admissions. It is your first month on the job. You get an email/phone call/registered letter/ request to meet privately in your office by someone you know/someone you don't know. The person says they have information about a current applicant/admitted applicant/current student. The information is a bunch of text messages/emails/video chats stating "I've really put one over on the school; I totally fabricated some of the sh1t I wrote on my application."

You're the boss. What are you going to do about this? Does it matter if the person reporting this is someone you know or a stranger? Does it matter how the material is delivered to you? Does it matter whether the person is an applicant (who wasn't likely to get an interview even before this came to light), an admitted applicant, or a current student? What will it take for you to act? What will you do?

 

[Goro]

Obviously must be taken into account. But if said complaintant has evidence that the person lied (texts for example), would you want to know? If it was proven they lied, what would your school do about it? Would you contact their UG institution?

Mostly interested in the hypothetical as I've found this scenario is far more common than I ever initially thought.

Actual evidence is >>>>>>> hearsay. The wise LizzyM's response was, as usual for her, spot on.

 

[Stagg737]

You are a resident but let's promote you to Associate Dean for Admissions. It is your first month on the job. You get an email/phone call/registered letter/ request to meet privately in your office by someone you know/someone you don't know. The person says they have information about a current applicant/admitted applicant/current student. The information is a bunch of text messages/emails/video chats stating "I've really put one over on the school; I totally fabricated some of the sh1t I wrote on my application."

You're the boss. What are you going to do about this? Does it matter if the person reporting this is someone you know or a stranger? Does it matter how the material is delivered to you? Does it matter whether the person is an applicant (who wasn't likely to get an interview even before this came to light), an admitted applicant, or a current student? What will it take for you to act? What will you do?

So clearly a lot to be taken into account. For example's sake, let's use the OP's case + evidence of text messages or e-mails. So a stranger claiming to know an applicant contacts you and provides you with e-mails of those texts/messages (which seem legit) saying the applicant lied. Let's say it's post interview and the person is either strongly being considered for acceptance or has already been accepted. What's the call?

I guess my question is more of what's your threshhold for this kind of reporting? I'm assuming if this was the UG institution contacting you it would be an auto-reject, but curious about random stranger vs. letter-writer vs. professor or activity staff.

 

[Goro]

So clearly a lot to be taken into account. For example's sake, let's use the OP's case + evidence of text messages or e-mails. So a stranger claiming to know an applicant contacts you and provides you with e-mails of those texts/messages (which seem legit) saying the applicant lied. Let's say it's post interview and the person is either strongly being considered for acceptance or has already been accepted. What's the call?

I guess my question is more of what's your threshhold for this kind of reporting? I'm assuming if this was the UG institution contacting you it would be an auto-reject, but curious about random stranger vs. letter-writer vs. professor or activity staff.

I think it would have to be something that gets on our radar, something that rises above the protective standard of "oh this is just somebody with a grudge."

Following that, then one can check on contacts and look for more verification

 

[lm1106]

So clearly a lot to be taken into account. For example's sake, let's use the OP's case + evidence of text messages or e-mails. So a stranger claiming to know an applicant contacts you and provides you with e-mails of those texts/messages (which seem legit) saying the applicant lied. Let's say it's post interview and the person is either strongly being considered for acceptance or has already been accepted. What's the call?

I guess my question is more of what's your threshhold for this kind of reporting? I'm assuming if this was the UG institution contacting you it would be an auto-reject, but curious about random stranger vs. letter-writer vs. professor or activity staff.

I think it would have to be something that gets on our radar, something that rises above the protective standard of "oh this is just somebody with a grudge."

Following that, then one can check on contacts and look for more verification

So what you’re saying is... time to gather some evidence? jk but maybe a lil srs

 

[efle]

Can't imagine a school would want to contest the URM checkbox even if they internally raised their eyebrows. Last thing they want is some drama from an applicant claiming they were only rejected for being white-passing and not "looking the part" of their race.

 

[ChymeofPassion]

Can't imagine a school would want to contest the URM checkbox even if they internally raised their eyebrows. Last thing they want is some drama from an applicant claiming they were only rejected for being white-passing and not "looking the part" of their race.

Similar, my friend found an ID of a woman >21 when he was 19, and tried to enter a bar with it. When the doorman said this isn't you, he said he was transgender, how dare you, next time you hear about this it'll be in the papers, etc.

He was let in the bar.

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

Similar, my friend found an ID of a woman >21 when he was 19, and tried to enter a bar with it. When the doorman said this isn't you, he said he was transgender, how dare you, next time you hear about this it'll be in the papers, etc.

He was let in the bar.

This was really wrong, but I'm not gonna lie it was also really clever too.

 

[Peter Pan.]

Similar, my friend found an ID of a woman >21 when he was 19, and tried to enter a bar with it. When the doorman said this isn't you, he said he was transgender, how dare you, next time you hear about this it'll be in the papers, etc.

He was let in the bar.

Wouldn't a transgender person need to get an updated ID?

 

[deleted480308]

Can't imagine a school would want to contest the URM checkbox even if they internally raised their eyebrows. Last thing they want is some drama from an applicant claiming they were only rejected for being white-passing and not "looking the part" of their race.

Race shouldn’t be a part of this process