"Help me decide" mega thread

[twelve13]

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My goal is to get into a clinical psychology PhD program. I got into five MA/MS programs (one of which I already declined) and I'm having a lot of trouble making the decision.

Villanova: Probably the most prestigious of the ones I got into. It isn't my exact research interests (gender/sexual behavior/anxiety/sub abuse), but I should have the ability to explore them. I haven't heard back about funding yet, though :/. I got in touch with them and learned that I wouldn't hear until after April 15th.

Indiana State: This has my research interests to the tee and I got a $6100 assistantship and 50% tuition waiver. However, I have not visited the campus and I know the least about the program in general.

Western Carolina: It isn't my exact research interest, but I should have the ability to explore it. $8000 assistantship and only paying in state tuition.

University at Buffalo: I would only have to pay in state tuition. It is probably the furthest from my research interest. It's possible that I could explore it, but not as likely.

I would accept Villanova if I got funding (I feel like I would have the best chance of getting into a PhD program from there), but the trouble is that I will not know about the funding one way or another until after the deadline tomorrow, and it would be rather pricey without funding :/ I'm leaning toward either Villanova or Western Carolina.

Any advice is appreciated! Thank you!

 

[PFTSAI]

Hello,

I have got acceptance into Pepperdine(Psychology evening program), Cal Lutheran(Clinical Psy), Cal State U at Fullerton(Clinical Psy MS).
My future goal is to get a doctorate. I'm still not sure whether I'm going to pursue a PhD or a PsyD. This is the reason I apply for a master first. (My B.S. degree is Psychology) These three programs are in my final decision list. It's a difficult decision to choose a program.
I really need some advice or recommendation. Thank you for any advice!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

For the last 2 posters….both of you want to eventually attain a doctorate, so I'd recommend:
1. If you go the MS route first, you REALLY want to avoid taking on debt.
2. If you go the MS route make sure you get research mentorship and ideally have to complete a formal thesis.
3. Any program you are considering needs to be able to answer, "What % of your graduates go on to fully funded Ph.D. program in psychology?"…and the answer needs to be a high %.
4. If you cannot secure close to full funding, you really should consider other options because you could very well end up in the same place 1-2 years from now with a bunch of debt in tow.
5. If a full-time MS doesn't work out, consider trying to find a paid R.A. position. This isn't easy, but it helps you avoid debt.
6. Just to make sure…DEBT = BAD.

-guy who is paying Sallie Mae way too much for the next 10+yrs.

 

[awholeneuroworld]

Hi everyone,

I've occasionally lurked around the forum before, but this is the first time I've joined/posted. I'm about to graduate with my B.S. in Psychology with a minor in Addiction Studies. I've been accepted to a Clinical Psychology PhD program at Jackson State University (JSU) and an M.S. in Counseling Psychology program at the University of Southern Mississippi (USM). I'm trying to decide which offer to take. I know that ultimately I would like to get a PhD - I've always wanted it to be in Clinical Psych, but lately I've learned more about Counseling Psych and I think I could reach my goals with that degree too. The only reasons I'm considering doing the masters program are:

1) My interests in psychology are still very broad, which makes me unsure about committing to a PhD program right away
2) USM has a much larger psychology program
3) USM gets much more funding and does more research and publication
4) The PhD at JSU has no terminal master's degree, so if for some reason I can't complete the program I walk away with no degree

Basically my options are 1) take the PhD offer now, 2) take the master's offer and later apply to the school's Clinical & Counseling PhD programs and risk not getting in, or 3) reject both offers, get some more experience, and reapply to schools next year when I've had more time to pinpoint exactly what I want to do. I wouldn't be left in debt by attending either school, there is not much of a difference financially.

If anyone could offer their thoughts or insight, I would appreciate it!

 

[Doctorle]

Hi everyone,

I've occasionally lurked around the forum before, but this is the first time I've joined/posted. I'm about to graduate with my B.S. in Psychology with a minor in Addiction Studies. I've been accepted to a Clinical Psychology PhD program at Jackson State University (JSU) and an M.S. in Counseling Psychology program at the University of Southern Mississippi (USM). I'm trying to decide which offer to take. I know that ultimately I would like to get a PhD - I've always wanted it to be in Clinical Psych, but lately I've learned more about Counseling Psych and I think I could reach my goals with that degree too. The only reasons I'm considering doing the masters program are:

1) My interests in psychology are still very broad, which makes me unsure about committing to a PhD program right away
2) USM has a much larger psychology program
3) USM gets much more funding and does more research and publication
4) The PhD at JSU has no terminal master's degree, so if for some reason I can't complete the program I walk away with no degree

Basically my options are 1) take the PhD offer now, 2) take the master's offer and later apply to the school's Clinical & Counseling PhD programs and risk not getting in, or 3) reject both offers, get some more experience, and reapply to schools next year when I've had more time to pinpoint exactly what I want to do. I wouldn't be left in debt by attending either school, there is not much of a difference financially.

If anyone could offer their thoughts or insight, I would appreciate it!

Don't you have to accept the phd offer by today in order to even get in?
What are your doubts about the program if that's the ultimate route you want to take?

 

[awholeneuroworld]

I was the first person on the wait list, so whoever they offered admission to first only called Monday to turn down their admission offer (meaning I got the acceptance call on Monday afternoon), so they just asked that I give them a decision by Wednesday.

My biggest doubt is that the faculty interests are pretty narrow, and I don't feel like I can commit to working only on research in those interests because my research & clinical interests are still developing. I talked to some of the grad students and many take opportunities to do research with people outside of the university, but I still have a lot of unanswered questions about how that works and who is eligible to do that. I have some doubts about the amount of research people at their university are publishing as well, it doesn't seem to be all that much. They were upfront about the fact that their department doesn't get a lot of funding, which I appreciate, but also worry about how that affects the opportunities I'll have in graduate school.

 

[Doctorle]

Sounds like you really don't like the program. Don't do it then. It is a long road ahead, and you don't want to be stuck in a program you knew you wouldn't like from the beginning.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I was the first person on the wait list, so whoever they offered admission to first only called Monday to turn down their admission offer (meaning I got the acceptance call on Monday afternoon), so they just asked that I give them a decision by Wednesday.

My biggest doubt is that the faculty interests are pretty narrow, and I don't feel like I can commit to working only on research in those interests because my research & clinical interests are still developing. I talked to some of the grad students and many take opportunities to do research with people outside of the university, but I still have a lot of unanswered questions about how that works and who is eligible to do that. I have some doubts about the amount of research people at their university are publishing as well, it doesn't seem to be all that much. They were upfront about the fact that their department doesn't get a lot of funding, which I appreciate, but also worry about how that affects the opportunities I'll have in graduate school.

By "get a lot of funding," do you mean that they don't always have funding for current/future grad students (e.g., stipend and tuition remission), that they don't have enough funding to take more than a few grad students, or that their faculty don't pull in a lot of grant funding?

Although like Doctorle mentioned, it sounds like you're having serious reservations about the program. You could always try checking into how many of their graduates go on to work in areas similar to where you'd like to one day work to see if they're successfully training folks for those kinds of positions.
I don't know much about JSU myself, unfortunately. As for USM, I can say from first-hand experience that their program turns out well-trained folks, particularly when it comes to health psychology.

 

[Doctorle]

Given that you have to tell them by today, you should probably get the answers to all your questions and concerns from the DCT asap. In my acceptance and waitlist letters it was always clearly stated that I could call them with any questions or reservations about the program. But if you don't believe their research is similar to your interests, it might not be the best fit.

Good luck!

 

[NPW3816]

I've made my list of Counseling Psych programs I'd like to apply to:

• University of North Texas
• University of Houston
• University of South Alabama
• Texas A&M
• University of Texas-Austin
• University of Memphis
• Our Lady of The Lake (PsyD)
• Texas Woman's University
• University of Southern Mississippi

I'd love some feed back from you guys.
Probably premature, but I'm trying to rank these.

 

[erg923]

Southern miss, Texas @Austin, Texas A&M.

 

[NPW3816]

Southern miss, Texas @Austin, Texas A&M.

Very interesting… what do you like about these?

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Very interesting… what do you like about these?

It'll of course depend on your interests, but they're all very solid programs; I've worked with folks who've come from all three, and they've universally been very well-trained. UT and Southern Miss have excellent clinical programs as well (don't know as much about A&M, or if they even have a clinical program).

 

[MCParent]

I've made my list of Counseling Psych programs I'd like to apply to:

• University of North Texas
• University of Houston
• University of South Alabama
• Texas A&M
• University of Texas-Austin
• University of Memphis
• Our Lady of The Lake (PsyD)
• Texas Woman's University
• University of Southern Mississippi

I'd love some feed back from you guys.
Probably premature, but I'm trying to rank these.

Looks like you like the south, so here's a plug for Texas Tech. 🙂

 

[modestmousktr]

Hum.

So, my conundrum is this:

I applied to three PsyD programs two years ago, and only interviewed at one: Rutgers GSAPP PsyD. I was close, but didn't get in; and, since then, I've been working as hard as I could with GSAPP as my benchmark. Aim for the stars and so forth. So I worked in the psychiatric emergency room for the intervening time, which was a very lucky experience to get. This time, I applied to eight schools, got interview invites to six, and actually went on four interviews.

So I've been accepted to two programs: Rutgers GSAPP, and LIU Post's PsyD program. I was accepted within a week for LIU, and was offered a research assistantship to help with tuition shortly after. I just got the offer from GSAPP yesterday morning, after being put on the regular waitlist (apparently they had the "high" waitlist and a regular one). Obviously things are so new there that they're still going to be working out administrative stuff before they can say what, if anything, they'd be able to offer me.

I'm honestly a little unsure of what to do. In terms of reputation, price, pragmatics, my goals, and sheer opportunities, GSAPP is a better choice. Rutgers is well renowned. The tuition is much lower than LIU. I work in New Jersey as is, so moving there would be easy, and I'm already connected to their mental health community. Rutgers has been my dream school since my near miss. It has a lot of opportunities.

LIU also seemed like a great place when I interviewed there. They have many of the same systems of training. LIU also trains in dynamics, CBT, and has someone who worked with Linehan for DBT. The sense of community and cohesion seemed better...not quite as competitive between students in the same cohort, if you will. The tuition is much higher, 120,000+ or so. They've offered me an assistantship; but, everyone gets those. And at Rutgers, I'm pretty sure they'll also be offering an assistantship that'll help for about the same price cut (10k).

My original thought was this: if I don't get into Rutgers, I'd be happy to go to LIU. Now that I'm there, my biggest question is whether or not rank order affects treatment, financial packages, or opportunities in these kinds of programs. Perhaps it would be better to be higher up the tier at LIU than one of the last at Rutgers...IF that's how it's run. Any perspectives? I'm heavily leaning towards Rutgers, but I don't want to jump and make an impulsive decision.

As the person above me said, RUTGERS RUTGERS RUTGERS, for all of the reasons you mentioned. Also, if you're happy about LIU and a faculty's connection to Marsha Linehan, Dr. Shireen Rizvi who is faculty at Rutgers, got her Ph.D. from UW under Marsha Linehan and researchers DBT with borderline individuals. There is a lot of good work going on at Rutgers, and it sounds like work you're interested in. Congrats!

 

[Shiriyama]

Ah, heh, I knew of Dr. Rizvi. I made my choice, and it was the obvious one. Rutgers all the way!

 

[Bryan91]

This might be redundant, but I was wondering if you guys can tell me if this was a good choice. In the future, I have no interest in conducting research and I do not want to be a MSW. I choose to attend the Pacific University PsyD program in Oregon. My academic credentials are low, 3.3 GPA with a 149verb/152quant/4.5writing, 2 years undergraduate research, 1.5 years undergraduate teaching assistant, and 1 year undergraduate internship at a counselors center. Pacific University offers a strong track program in forensics psychology, which at the moment is becoming a growing interest of mine, as well as an emphasis in CBT training. The large cohort classes(due to the opening of a building specifically for the program with clinical offices for training) do make me a bit worrisome, but you are still guaranteed an APA or APPIC accredited internship. The staff are improving the importance of student to mentor interactions, as well as the importance of catering to all of their students. There is an 89% pass rate on the license examination, most of which was on the first attempt. I've calculated that I will most likely accumulate 150k in loans. At the moment, I do not regret anything, I think the program fits me the best for what I have to offer, but I just feel like I am limited to my options due to my credentials as an undergraduate. I do not want to attend a masters level program as it will only hinder my ability to finish with a higher level degree and I do not have an interest in pursuing a PhD program. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

 

[erg923]

The notion of learning how to a be a scientific clinician without actually DOING any science seems naive, IMHO

 

[CaliMac]

Erg, is your statement in response to the PsyD in general (taking into account program variability, of course) or to PU specifically?

No way am I pursuing a professional school, I am just curious about your opinion.

 

[WisNeuro]

Erg, is your statement in response to the PsyD in general (taking into account program variability, of course) or to PU specifically?

No way am I pursuing a professional school, I am just curious about your opinion.

It's an opinion shared by many in the field. Clinicians who don't understand the research behind what they are doing are merely monkeys wielding hammers. Although, I do admit that that is an offensive comparison. Monkeys have actually shown an ability to effectively use tools for problem solving.

 

[CaliMac]

Ha, monkeys everywhere must be livid 😉

Is the qualm that PsyDs are competing for jobs for which they are not trained (as well as PhDs)? Does the same sentiment apply to master's-level workers or are they exempt since they don't typically fill doctoral-level positions?

Because really, if I'm going to me a monkey, I'd at least like a prehensile tail.

 

[WisNeuro]

Ha, monkeys everywhere must be livid 😉

Is the qualm that PsyDs are competing for jobs for which they are not trained (as well as PhDs)? Does the same sentiment apply to master's-level workers or are they exempt since they don't typically fill doctoral-level positions?

Because really, if I'm going to me a monkey, I'd at least like a prehensile tail.

I personally think that any clinician that doesn't understand research is limited in their effectiveness. This is across disciplines. This is why you see MD's stuck in their ways, prescribing meds that don't work (e.g., Aricept), or performing procedures that don't really do anything (high volume spinal taps in most cases for enlarged ventricles). Medicine needs to embrace evidence-based procedures. The only way to do that is to make sure that your clinicians know how to properly evaluate research.

 

[CaliMac]

Agreed. Science that doesn't embrace research is simply dogma.

I am trying to figure out how to squeeze more research into (or around) the only CACREP-accredited MFT/LPCC program within a two-hour drive from me. The same university has an MS in clinical that also prepares for both licenses and has more research but is not accredited. When I emailed the advisor, she replied that the program was used for doctoral prep (differed from their website) and referred me to the school of counseling. Pretty disappointing.

 

[Bryan91]

If I am accepted into the track program, I will be doing more research than most PsyD programs. Which is why I like the program, it does not completely toss out the research side of clinical psychology but rather a supplement to the clinical training which is based on evidence based practices. It is a 30/ 70 clinical for track options and 20/80 for a gestalt approach. I know there is a need for all PhD candidates to bash on PsyD programs. But honestly I doubt that I would make it into a PhD program that is highly credible. I've applied to both PhD programs and PsyD programs, as well as Master level clinical programs. I got into all PsyD and Masters programs but bluntly denied from the PhD programs.

 

[erg923]

Erg, is your statement in response to the PsyD in general (taking into account program variability, of course) or to PU specifically?

No way am I pursuing a professional school, I am just curious about your opinion.

I vacillate frequently on how much I truly buy into the Psy.D training model. Some days are better than others.

I was simply pointing out the irony of a person who rejects all desire/motivation/notion of doing any research in a field where that forms the basis of everything we do. Essentially, I would like to initiate a 5-6 years quest to be scientifically informed practitioner, but I don't really have desire to do any science during said quest. Its assbackwards.

 

[Bryan91]

I vacillate frequently on how much I truly buy into the Psy.D training model. Some days are better than others.

I was simply pointing out the irony of a person who rejects all desire/motivation/notion of doing any research in a field where that forms the basis of everything we do. Essentially, I would like to initiate a 5-6 years quest to be scientifically informed practitioner, but I don't really have desire to do any science during said quest. Its assbackwards.

There is nothing wrong with having no interest with conducting research in an academic setting, which is why I want more clinical training over research training (which is essentially what a PsyD is). A PsyD model following a practitioner-scholar approach does not mean it is throwing away all information regarding research and science, you can ask any other PsyD candidates yourself. Just because it is not research oriented does not mean that PsyD graduates will not be scientifically informed, that is just absurd to say. It just simply means we are geared more towards working in a clinical environment over academic research environment. There is no reason to turn what I said into a bashing out at the PsyD degree itself, if it was "assbackwards" then APA would not have accepted the degree idea. I wish this forum section wasn't so negatively biased towards PsyD programs.

 

[erg923]

There is nothing wrong with having no interest with conducting research in an academic setting, which is why I want more clinical training over research training (which is essentially what a PsyD is). A PsyD model following a practitioner-scholar approach does not mean it is throwing away all information regarding research and science, you can ask any other PsyD candidates yourself. Just because it is not research oriented does not mean that PsyD graduates will not be scientifically informed, that is just absurd to say. It just simply means we are geared more towards working in a clinical environment over academic research environment. There is no reason to turn what I said into a bashing out at the PsyD degree itself, if it was "assbackwards" then APA would not have accepted the degree idea. I wish this forum section wasn't so negatively biased towards PsyD programs.

So you are asserting: 1. psyds student get more clinical training. 2. Phd programs/students focus is on academic settings, not clincial work/settings. 3. one can be a scientific practitioner, but not actually learn how to do any science. 4. APA only accredits quality training programs. Is this accurate?

 

[CaliMac]

I vacillate frequently on how much I truly buy into the Psy.D training model. Some days are better than others.

I was simply pointing out the irony of a person who rejects all desire/motivation/notion of doing any research in a field where that forms the basis of everything we do. Essentially, I would like to initiate a 5-6 years quest to be scientifically informed practitioner, but I don't really have desire to do any science during said quest. Its assbackwards.

Seems like a Vail vs. Boulder issue, in essence.

Theoretical differences but good skiing either way 🙂

 

[erg923]

Seems like a Vail vs. Boulder issue, in essence.

Theoretical differences but good skiing either way 🙂

Not really. There is nothing in the Vail model that proposes/assumes that students who have no interest in exploring the science of psychology should pursue doctoral study.There was an underlying goal to create a program where there was more clinical application of that science. However, objective data shows that Psy.D programs do NOT provide more clinical training hours that Ph.D. programs. I think once upon a time they did, but phd programs rectified this many many years ago.

There is nothing wrong with having no interest with conducting research in an academic setting,

Grad school is an "academic setting"...so if you dont want to learn science there, where are you proposing that you do it?

I am well aware that they teach science in psyd programs. The argument is that doing is a necessary component of learning. I don't hear any psyd applicants proposing that one can just take classes in therapy and assessment and be a adequately trained practitioner?!

 

[Bryan91]

Grad school is an "academic setting"...so if you dont want to learn science there, where are you proposing that you do it?

I am well aware that they teach science in psyd programs. The argument is that doing is a necessary component of learning. I don't hear any psyd applicants proposing that one can just take classes in therapy and assessment and be a adequately trained practitioner?!

Do you even get what I am saying at all? After graduate school, I do not want to conduct research, this clearly does not mean I don't want to learn science at all. Where did I say "I don't want to learn science", this just shows your ignorance in talking about PsyD programs. This is exactly why you don't see anyone in PsyD programs seeking help/advice on this forum, all they receive is complete absurdity and negatively biased opinions. This forums should really just separate the PhD and PsyD programs into two separate threads.

So you are asserting: 1. psyds student get more clinical training. 2. Phd programs/students focus is on academic settings, not clincial work/settings. 3. one can be a scientific practitioner, but not actually learn how to do any science. 4. APA only accredits quality training programs. Is this accurate?

No. I am not saying PsyD students receive more clinical training, as I never conducted a literature review on this idea. I am simply just stating that they place an emphasis on clinical training over academic research. I never once said that "one can be a scientific practitioner, but not actually learn how to do any science" now did I? APA would not have accepted the idea of a PsyD program if it did not yield positive outcomes. Of course there are programs that destroy the reputation of clinical psychology that are APA accredited.

 

[erg923]

Yes, I do. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe your original question was "is this a good choice?" Pursuing a doctoral degree with little interest in research and at a program where one can matriculate without doing any research, is, in my opinion (and others obviously), NOT a good choice. No need to get all drama queen about it cause you dont like the answers provided, aight?!

And, what "positive outcomes" are you speaking off? Is this a study you are referencing?

 

[marsmarie]

I decided to post on here since I have been sleeplessly thinking about school options and even after talking with mentors/grad students/advisors etc I am still not confident in what is the best decision.

My overall goal is to obtain a PhD in Clinical or Counseling psychology...my end goal would be to do research and/or have the option to practice in some way.

I applied this year to PhD programs (11 total) and unfortunately was not admitted to any (of course a huge disappointment...although at least I had McNair Scholar fee waiver therefore didnt lose $$ on applications). My initial plan was to apply next year and do what I can to be more competitive. Feedback received from PhD programs mentioned I was a strong applicant with great research experience but they had an overwhelming amount of applications and some saw strengths to transfer my application to their masters. I was admitted to several masters this way (Columbia and UM being my top 2). Although they did not mention it, I know my below average GRE and GPA were factors (I don’t mind sharing that info: 300 and 3.41). I see the masters as a way to show I could excel academically in graduate level work, I am also retaking the GRE this summer and although I do have significant research experience, I would like to get more meaningful experience with some relevance to my interests (coping, resiliency and trauma). I currently do research with Girl Scouts as Director of Grants and Research, have assisted with several national Girl Scout Research Institute publications and have also presented at several conferences (including one at Yale not too long ago but non presenting in my research interests).

The reasons above were why the Columbia MA seemed ideal.
- I can finish in a year if fulltime (3 semesters).
- Faculty of interest, Dr. Bonnano, is renowned for his work in resiliency and coping (my research interest)
-You do not complete a thesis but you complete a final project.
-I was given a $25,000 Teachers College scholarship which will cover a little more than half of total tuition (scholarship not normally given to masters students).
-A description of the program in its manual is “This program is ideal for students who wish to strengthen their applications to Ph.D. programs”
University of Miami:
-Mental Health Counseling M.S.Ed.at the UM department of Educational and Psychological Studies.
- The curriculum includes 15 content courses and a practicum year, therefore minimum to graduate for this program is 2 years.
-Terminal degree have option to get licensed
-Faculty does a lot of research with minority and at risk populations including youth (area of interest).
-When I interviewed I was told there are plenty of opportunities to work in research labs and conduct research (although not a part of the program)
-There is no required project or Thesis (just an exam)
-I was awarded an $8,000 scholarship which covers a small portion of the tuition.

Weighing out the financials: Although I received more scholarship money from Columbia, the housing and living in New York (which is very expensive) would have to be paid for mostly through loans. In Miami I will not have to pay for housing given I have family that lives in the area but I would have to pay for a good portion of the tuition.

Financials ARE important (especially since I plan on continuing to the PhD) and when weighing out the financials for the masters I weighed out Columbia for 1 year and UM for 2 years. On average UM’s tuition is about $75,000 (including scholarship) and I dont have to pay for housing and Columbia’s is $25,000 (including scholarship). I estimated Columbia to be about $50,000 w/ housing and additional expenses for a year in NY. ...although I’ve never lived in NY so I may be off on my estimates.

I am a hard worker and will do what it takes to stand out in either program. I currently work about 60 hours per week at my current position and this will be the first time I will be able to fully focus and dedicate my efforts to academics (definitely a pay cut but looking forward to it). Miami would definitely be the easier transition (with more support) and it definitely scares me to move up to NY by myself (although I have some friends there and a sister in CT). Although scary, I would take on the challenge of Columbia though, IF and only if it is the best choice for me and my future goals.

But of course a decision has to be made. I wanted to make sure I took my time and really thought prior to making such a big decision and hopefully in the next couple of days I have a clear and confident decision made.

Great advice and feedback will be helpful! 🙂

 

[Bryan91]

It sounds like you have a solid plan. I am actually quite impressed at your application strengths. I to fall under the category of having a poor GPA and it does hold you back big time when it comes to graduate studies. I ended up going a difference route tho. Anyways, based on your interests and financial importance, I would suggest doing the Columbia MA. However, if you want to strengthen your application more and are willingly to take a large debt collection over two years, I personally would go with the UM MS as it would give you the clinical experience and potentially licensing opportunity in the future if things do not go as planned. Bottom line: I say go to UM MS

 

[rugox]

Go to UM. The only thing going for you at Columbia Teachers College is probably Bonnano. 25k is not a whole lot of money to study in NYC full time. It basically only covers one semester. I'm surprised you even got that money as they rarely fund masters students. TC Columbia's clinical program is a joke. I am a recent graduate of the counseling program there and everyone I know who went through the clinical program call it a degree mill. They say it prepares you for phd programs but they actually don't do this. They accept more than 100 ppl per year and thesis is not a component. People often get through the program without any substantial knowledge in research which should be the focus of these programs. Of course, this is unless you want to move to NYC.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I decided to post on here since I have been sleeplessly thinking about school options and even after talking with mentors/grad students/advisors etc I am still not confident in what is the best decision.

My overall goal is to obtain a PhD in Clinical or Counseling psychology...my end goal would be to do research and/or have the option to practice in some way.

I applied this year to PhD programs (11 total) and unfortunately was not admitted to any (of course a huge disappointment...although at least I had McNair Scholar fee waiver therefore didnt lose $$ on applications). My initial plan was to apply next year and do what I can to be more competitive. Feedback received from PhD programs mentioned I was a strong applicant with great research experience but they had an overwhelming amount of applications and some saw strengths to transfer my application to their masters. I was admitted to several masters this way (Columbia and UM being my top 2). Although they did not mention it, I know my below average GRE and GPA were factors (I don’t mind sharing that info: 300 and 3.41). I see the masters as a way to show I could excel academically in graduate level work, I am also retaking the GRE this summer and although I do have significant research experience, I would like to get more meaningful experience with some relevance to my interests (coping, resiliency and trauma). I currently do research with Girl Scouts as Director of Grants and Research, have assisted with several national Girl Scout Research Institute publications and have also presented at several conferences (including one at Yale not too long ago but non presenting in my research interests).

The reasons above were why the Columbia MA seemed ideal.
- I can finish in a year if fulltime (3 semesters).
- Faculty of interest, Dr. Bonnano, is renowned for his work in resiliency and coping (my research interest)
-You do not complete a thesis but you complete a final project.
-I was given a $25,000 Teachers College scholarship which will cover a little more than half of total tuition (scholarship not normally given to masters students).
-A description of the program in its manual is “This program is ideal for students who wish to strengthen their applications to Ph.D. programs”
University of Miami:
-Mental Health Counseling M.S.Ed.at the UM department of Educational and Psychological Studies.
- The curriculum includes 15 content courses and a practicum year, therefore minimum to graduate for this program is 2 years.
-Terminal degree have option to get licensed
-Faculty does a lot of research with minority and at risk populations including youth (area of interest).
-When I interviewed I was told there are plenty of opportunities to work in research labs and conduct research (although not a part of the program)
-There is no required project or Thesis (just an exam)
-I was awarded an $8,000 scholarship which covers a small portion of the tuition.

Weighing out the financials: Although I received more scholarship money from Columbia, the housing and living in New York (which is very expensive) would have to be paid for mostly through loans. In Miami I will not have to pay for housing given I have family that lives in the area but I would have to pay for a good portion of the tuition.

Financials ARE important (especially since I plan on continuing to the PhD) and when weighing out the financials for the masters I weighed out Columbia for 1 year and UM for 2 years. On average UM’s tuition is about $75,000 (including scholarship) and I dont have to pay for housing and Columbia’s is $25,000 (including scholarship). I estimated Columbia to be about $50,000 w/ housing and additional expenses for a year in NY. ...although I’ve never lived in NY so I may be off on my estimates.

I am a hard worker and will do what it takes to stand out in either program. I currently work about 60 hours per week at my current position and this will be the first time I will be able to fully focus and dedicate my efforts to academics (definitely a pay cut but looking forward to it). Miami would definitely be the easier transition (with more support) and it definitely scares me to move up to NY by myself (although I have some friends there and a sister in CT). Although scary, I would take on the challenge of Columbia though, IF and only if it is the best choice for me and my future goals.

But of course a decision has to be made. I wanted to make sure I took my time and really thought prior to making such a big decision and hopefully in the next couple of days I have a clear and confident decision made.

Great advice and feedback will be helpful! 🙂

Mod Note: Moved this to the "Help me decide" mega thread.

 

[KayDee103]

I decided to post on here since I have been sleeplessly thinking about school options and even after talking with mentors/grad students/advisors etc I am still not confident in what is the best decision.

My overall goal is to obtain a PhD in Clinical or Counseling psychology...my end goal would be to do research and/or have the option to practice in some way.

I applied this year to PhD programs (11 total) and unfortunately was not admitted to any (of course a huge disappointment...although at least I had McNair Scholar fee waiver therefore didnt lose $$ on applications). My initial plan was to apply next year and do what I can to be more competitive. Feedback received from PhD programs mentioned I was a strong applicant with great research experience but they had an overwhelming amount of applications and some saw strengths to transfer my application to their masters. I was admitted to several masters this way (Columbia and UM being my top 2). Although they did not mention it, I know my below average GRE and GPA were factors (I don’t mind sharing that info: 300 and 3.41). I see the masters as a way to show I could excel academically in graduate level work, I am also retaking the GRE this summer and although I do have significant research experience, I would like to get more meaningful experience with some relevance to my interests (coping, resiliency and trauma). I currently do research with Girl Scouts as Director of Grants and Research, have assisted with several national Girl Scout Research Institute publications and have also presented at several conferences (including one at Yale not too long ago but non presenting in my research interests).

The reasons above were why the Columbia MA seemed ideal.
- I can finish in a year if fulltime (3 semesters).
- Faculty of interest, Dr. Bonnano, is renowned for his work in resiliency and coping (my research interest)
-You do not complete a thesis but you complete a final project.
-I was given a $25,000 Teachers College scholarship which will cover a little more than half of total tuition (scholarship not normally given to masters students).
-A description of the program in its manual is “This program is ideal for students who wish to strengthen their applications to Ph.D. programs”
University of Miami:
-Mental Health Counseling M.S.Ed.at the UM department of Educational and Psychological Studies.
- The curriculum includes 15 content courses and a practicum year, therefore minimum to graduate for this program is 2 years.
-Terminal degree have option to get licensed
-Faculty does a lot of research with minority and at risk populations including youth (area of interest).
-When I interviewed I was told there are plenty of opportunities to work in research labs and conduct research (although not a part of the program)
-There is no required project or Thesis (just an exam)
-I was awarded an $8,000 scholarship which covers a small portion of the tuition.

Weighing out the financials: Although I received more scholarship money from Columbia, the housing and living in New York (which is very expensive) would have to be paid for mostly through loans. In Miami I will not have to pay for housing given I have family that lives in the area but I would have to pay for a good portion of the tuition.

Financials ARE important (especially since I plan on continuing to the PhD) and when weighing out the financials for the masters I weighed out Columbia for 1 year and UM for 2 years. On average UM’s tuition is about $75,000 (including scholarship) and I dont have to pay for housing and Columbia’s is $25,000 (including scholarship). I estimated Columbia to be about $50,000 w/ housing and additional expenses for a year in NY. ...although I’ve never lived in NY so I may be off on my estimates.

I am a hard worker and will do what it takes to stand out in either program. I currently work about 60 hours per week at my current position and this will be the first time I will be able to fully focus and dedicate my efforts to academics (definitely a pay cut but looking forward to it). Miami would definitely be the easier transition (with more support) and it definitely scares me to move up to NY by myself (although I have some friends there and a sister in CT). Although scary, I would take on the challenge of Columbia though, IF and only if it is the best choice for me and my future goals.

But of course a decision has to be made. I wanted to make sure I took my time and really thought prior to making such a big decision and hopefully in the next couple of days I have a clear and confident decision made.

Great advice and feedback will be helpful! 🙂

It sounds like your GRE scores are the only thing really holding you back. Your GPA may in fact be below average, but I don't think enough to be a deal-breaker for most programs. I would suggest bypassing the Master's altogether, save the money and focus on really improving your GRE scores. Aim for AT LEAST 75th percentile for each subscore, although you may need higher (85th+), especially to offset the GPA. Your research seems solid, but if you want to get something closer to your research interests then look for a paid, or even part-time volunteer opportunity. And don't get discouraged! It's unfortunate but very common for great candidates to apply more than once. As long as you raise those GRE scores and your statement and letters are excellent, you should have a great chance at success the next time around. Best of luck to you!

 

[marsmarie]

Thank you so much for your all your feedback and for your suggestions! (I''m not sure if I'm replying correctly since I'm completely new to forums ^_^) I definitely have focused on getting the most research experience I could to be able to stand out when applying to Clinical Psych programs. I have a plan in place for when I apply again (GRE, making connections, more conferences, publications etc). The only decision left is which masters program. Overall, I know they are both good choices and both can help me with my end goal of getting into a Clinical Psych PhD. But the question I ask myself is which one would help me the most? (hence the back and forth) I initially was leaning more towards Columbia but because of negative things about the quality of the program it just doesn't seem worth it as several posts here mentioned (I also talked to a couple of alum that said their experience was good but if they had to do it over they would have gone with another program). UM was definitely harder to get into (had to interview twice) and has smaller class sizes, more opportunities to work with faculty etc. Therefore whereas before I was leaning towards Columbia I am now leaning towards UM ^_^ I also found out if you work part time at UM they waive 15 credits per year which is definitely helpful. I applied to several research associate positions they had and given my research background I feel I have a good chance of landing a job.

In hindsight and for anyone in my position looking to get into Clinical Psychology programs the Clinical Master's at Western Carolina University if THE best option (I just found out about this program through a mentor). More than 50% of their graduates get accepted to Clinical Psyc Ph.D. Programs, you do a thesis, work directly with a faculty member and most importantly they offer Assistantships to masters students.

 

[MikeG33]

Hello all,

Not sure if this is the right forum to ask my question well questions rather. I was in the service for 14 years ( not in the mental health profession). I recently got out and am pursuing a doctorates in psychology. My goal is to become a clinical psychologist for the Department of Veterans Affairs Health department specializing in treating vets with PTSD. I am still doing my general pre req at a community college. My question is at 32 and about to transfer to a 4 year to pursue both a graduate and Phd in Psychologist, is it really logical to do so? I will not finish school and residency until I'm near 40. I will be a recent graduate with Phd in 14 years in the service with no experience besides the residency hours. I'm willing to focus and finish school and do what ever it takes to get my degree and help vets with PTSD. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

You can also work for the VA as a LPC now. The only caveat is it absolutely must be a CACREP accredited program (not APA). If you look on USAjobs.gov there are many openings now for Master's level LPCs due to the shortage of mental health professionals at the various VAs. Also, as a veterans you will get a veteran's preference for employment which, along with your practicums and internship, will help with your lack of experience. The downside is that a LPC is typically a 60 credit program followed by 2 years (min) of supervised practice.

If you really want a doctorate, I would recommend a PhD that is funded (for obvious reasons); but do whatever will make you happy. You have one chance at life, do what makes you happy. I am a veteran doing the same thing (21 credits into my master's), so I am pretty much on the same path as you. Good luck.

 

[ironkiwi]

Though this thread was probably created to help people choose between two programs, I have a different sort of decision to make. I am in my early thirties and have a sort of unconventional background- I was an English major, then paralegal for five years, then went back for a 2nd bac in Psychology from a mediocre state school, worked at Johns Hopkins as a study coordinator for a couple years and applied to clinical PhD programs, During the second year of applications I got accepted to Southern Illinois U, and though I'm happy I have gotten in, I'm a little disappointed by some aspects of the program, and wonder if leaving a national research study at a great research institution to live in Carbondale, IL is the best of ideas. I'm the only person entering the program with a published paper, and my stats (GPA 3.8 GRE 161 V/156 Q) while not stellar are pretty far above average for the program. So I guess my question is, have I been at Hopkins too long and become too obsessed with the prestige of a school's name or will having SIU as my grad school affect my career as a neuropsychologist at a medical center in the future? Internship placements rates are between 80 and 100%. My mentor's previous students have all gotten neuro internships and post-docs...

 

[erg923]

Internship placements rates are between 80 and 100%. My mentor's previous students have all gotten neuro internships and post-docs...

So, whats the problem...?

 

[ironkiwi]

So, whats the problem...?

Fair enough... just didn't know if some programs had reputations that aren't reflected in internship placement stats- (not all internships are created equal, I'm guessing) and I'm trying not to limit myself in the future...

 

[QAsPsych]

I guess my question is, have I been at Hopkins too long and become too obsessed with the prestige of a school's name

The answer to your question is an unequivocal yes.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

The answer to your question is an unequivocal yes.

I'd second this. I'm not saying the mentality is specific to JHU, mind you, but I learned early on in my training that at the training opportunities and quality trump name brand any day of the week.

Mind you, there are still name brand-type programs in psychology, they're just often different than in the non-psychology world. But beyond all that, obtaining a degree from a solid academic program certainly isn't going to close any doors for you, particularly if you do some legwork with respect to networking.

If your current program has solid outcome stats (e.g., match rates and placements into postdocs in your area of interest, as you've mentioned) and is offering you the clinical and research experiences that you're interested in an excited about, then I'd say you've found a great place to land for grad school.

 

[ironkiwi]

I'd second this. I'm not saying the mentality is specific to JHU, mind you, but I learned early on in my training that at the training opportunities and quality trump name brand any day of the week.

Mind you, there are still name brand-type programs in psychology, they're just often different than in the non-psychology world. But beyond all that, obtaining a degree from a solid academic program certainly isn't going to close any doors for you, particularly if you do some legwork with respect to networking.

If your current program has solid outcome stats (e.g., match rates and placements into postdocs in your area of interest, as you've mentioned) and is offering you the clinical and research experiences that you're interested in an excited about, then I'd say you've found a great place to land for grad school.

Thanks for a thoughtful, balanced response- I appreciate it.

 

[BiotoPsych]

I already posted in the WAMC section, but I also had a pertinent "Help me decide" question. I'm currently enrolled in a master's program for counseling psychology, and just completed my first year. Originally I was intending to complete my master's in addition to the extended program that would allow me to work towards my LCPC with the required coursework. The extra coursework would require an additional year's worth of classes to go from a 48 master's program to a 60 credit program that would allow me to take the licensing exam after required hours were met.

However after some consideration I am currently intending to apply to psy d programs instead. My overall long term goal is to eventually open up my own private practice for therapy. However I know this is not an easily obtainable goal and would like other career options/flexibility down the road. Finances and time play an important factor in my decision. I'm currently 28 and will be 29 when I complete the master's program at 48 credits, so I won't actually complete my psy d. until my mid 30's. In terms of finances, psy d. programs will create a substantial amount of debt compared to the completion of the master's program. My current employer pays for 10k a year for tuition but it comes with an agreement to work the following fiscal year. Therefore if I begin a psy d. program next fall, I will have to pay back the 10k I would borrow for this second year of my master's program. However the alternative is I essentially waste a year working there gathering no relevant experience within the field, and I would not begin my psy d program until Fall 2016 at 30.

Given my goals and interests are largely therapy based, is it a waste of time/money applying to psy d. programs? I was considering a third option as well which would be to complete the 60 credits for licensing and then apply for psy d programs after. This would be a "fail safe" sort of plan where I would be able to work towards an LCPC if I failed to get into any psy d. programs. However I'm sure if I did this there will be an overlap in coursework and some of the courses I will take will not be accepted in psy d. programs. I'm concerned that my ambition is getting the best of me and obtaining a psy d. is not the financial/career best decision I can be making given my options. Thank you in advance for any advice or input you guys will have.

 

[devpsych99]

Hello everyone. I'm new here so I apologize if I am not posting this in the correct forum. I would really appreciate some input on my "dilemma" as far as graduate school options are concerned. I am running out of time to make a final decision so I REALLY would like some help.

This past application cycle, I applied to a handful of PhD programs in clinical psychology (I wanted to apply to more but I didn't have the finances) and a few masters programs as backups. I was rejected from all of the programs in clinical psych but was put on a waitlist for an interview for a PhD in developmental psychology that I ultimately did not get. I was accepted in several masters programs: MA in Child Development at Tufts University, MA in general psychology from Adelphi University, MA psychology from Rutgers (Camden), and an MA in developmental psychology from Teachers College, Columbia University. I've narrowed the options down to Rutgers and TC/Columbia but I am somewhat torn between the two.

TC/Columbia: PROS:
- I like the Risk, Resilience and Prevention area of focus/sub-specialty in the developmental program, which was the main reason why I applied (since it is almost exactly what I want to study).
- One of the professors that I am incredibly eager to work with for my PhD (really solid research match) has recently left TC for another university but still occasionally teaches, conducts research, and mentors students at TC though I am not sure if this is limited to students that they've worked with prior to leaving TC. I was told by my mentor that this professor is not really in residence anymore, obviously so I would not have the opportunity to do research with them if I went to TC but I still want to reapply to work with them the next time I apply for doctoral programs so going to TC might help in some way.
- They are offering around $12k in aid for the first year but nothing the second year. TC is known for it's horrible funding so I'm not guaranteed any aid after the first year.

CONS:
- I absolutely do not like NY and it's super expensive but I am/was willing to try to adapt to it or hope that it would grow on me.
- I do not plan on applying to any NY area schools after getting my masters so I'm not sure if the networking is worth it (I heard that TC is excellent if you want to stay in the NY area for work/a doctoral program).
- I am not guaranteed any RA position or any spot in any lab and there would virtually be no opportunities for a TA position either.
- I've heard that it can be difficult for MA students to get research experience, publications, work in labs since the PhD students take precedent and there doesn't seem to be a large emphasis on research exposure, at least within the program outside of the MA thesis, but it seems like there are a lot of other factors that play into that.

Rutgers (Camden): PROS:
- I haven't been to the campus on an official visit but I it feels like it may be more "like me" or more like my type of environment. I am from Philly so it is definitely more of my style since it's right in my backyard (I'm not looking to commute from my family's house in PHL though so proximity is not being factored into the decision).
- All MA students are matched with a faculty advisor from day one and they are placed in that faculty member's lab in an RA position that will last the duration of the program. There are also TA positions available (more on that later).
- Even though they don't have the Risk and Resilience track that TC has, there are about 3 professors there who similar research interests (one is specifically a resilience researcher) and who have already expressed that they could act as potential advisors.
- There are no doctoral students in this psych department so there would be less competition for faculty attention and research opportunities and even if there was a lot of competition among graduate students, you are still in a guaranteed RA position in a lab with your thesis advisor, so maybe it would feel like everyone is sort of on the same page so to speak in that the program is designed for students who are seeking admission into doctoral programs (or people who just like research lol).

CONS:
- While TC is offering $12k in guaranteed aid, Rutgers would probably only give me $2,000-$3,000 the first year with me paying out-of state tuition. The thing is there are 3 special TA positions available in the second year that include TUITION REMISSION, A STIPEND (I've heard it's a nice amount too), and a health insurance package. I was told that that would cover the entire second year.
- I don't have transportation so getting around would be more difficult than it would be in NY.
- The aforementioned OOS tuition.
- I would certainly like a little more distance from my home town (I want to spread my wings some) and even though I don't really like NY a lot, it would be an opportunity to live in a place that I've never lived in before.
- It's in Camden (lol).
- TC has more interesting courses.

So what are some of your thoughts on what I should do? I have experience as a research assistant from undergrad, my GPA was 3.5, I did avg on the GRE but I am going to retake them soon, and I have a clearly defined idea of what I would like to do in my career. I've been out of school for a year now but I've been back and forth helping family members who have been sick and I was not able to find employment. I would like to pursue a career in academia, research, and teaching and maybe do some clinical work on the side if I pursue a clinical psych degree. I am mainly interested in developmental psychopathology, risk and resilience, and addiction. I already know where I want to apply for my PhD, it's just a matter of doing the work that's going to get me there. Forgot to mention that both programs claim to be research intensive and require a thesis (or special project according to TC) and the main reason why I am doing this is to gain more research experience and get my foot in the graduate door. I'll admit, I am interested in the prestige of TC (it is Columbia after all) but I'm trying to figure out if it is worth what I may have to pay for it.

So thoughts, feedback, advice, opinions, any information about either of these programs or any other information that could help with this decision would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[CheetahGirl]

Hi,

I vote for Rutgers because of the funding-opportunity, the faculty has similar interests (you don't need a program dedicated to Risk & Resilience...that can be your unique focus), and you will not need to negotiate NYC. Yes, Columbia has prestige, but so does Rutgers...so if you make the decision based on practicality, you will be in a strong position with a degree from Rutgers. It just sounds like you get more focused attention and can get more research experience at the Master's level from Rutgers, which will certainly make your more competitive for doctoral programs down the road. I personally would think about the match with the program, then the least debt option, and then the daily living experience.

I live in Manhattan, and the expensiveness can wear you down (a smaller box of Life cereal can cost $6.49 if you walk in the wrong store) so if you don't want to bother with any of it (public transportation, gritty city, etc.), then Columbia may not be right for you. Although...an MA usually takes only 2-3 yrs so if Columbia's prestige & Manhattan's intrigue lure you to choose Columbia, you won't be there that long and it will undoubtedly be a great experience for the future. (But...wait, you said you did NOT have transportation, so Manhattan is ideal for people w/o their own car!? I don't know how people travel around Rutgers but one of my close friends attended their doctoral program & lived in Manhattan & used public transportation.) If you love Columbia...you can always apply to their doctoral programs or for internship there (would be only 1-year in the city for internship), even though you said you don't plan to apply to NYC programs. 🙁

Remember, right now you don't know where you'll end up in a doctoral program, so you want to minimize your debt going in and hopefully also land a doctoral program with great funding. BTW congrats on the acceptances - you are on your way!

Good luck! Tough decision but good one to have!

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Hello everyone. I'm new here so I apologize if I am not posting this in the correct forum. I would really appreciate some input on my "dilemma" as far as graduate school options are concerned. I am running out of time to make a final decision so I REALLY would like some help.

This past application cycle, I applied to a handful of PhD programs in clinical psychology (I wanted to apply to more but I didn't have the finances) and a few masters programs as backups. I was rejected from all of the programs in clinical psych but was put on a waitlist for an interview for a PhD in developmental psychology that I ultimately did not get. I was accepted in several masters programs: MA in Child Development at Tufts University, MA in general psychology from Adelphi University, MA psychology from Rutgers (Camden), and an MA in developmental psychology from Teachers College, Columbia University. I've narrowed the options down to Rutgers and TC/Columbia but I am somewhat torn between the two.

TC/Columbia: PROS:
- I like the Risk, Resilience and Prevention area of focus/sub-specialty in the developmental program, which was the main reason why I applied (since it is almost exactly what I want to study).
- One of the professors that I am incredibly eager to work with for my PhD (really solid research match) has recently left TC for another university but still occasionally teaches, conducts research, and mentors students at TC though I am not sure if this is limited to students that they've worked with prior to leaving TC. I was told by my mentor that this professor is not really in residence anymore, obviously so I would not have the opportunity to do research with them if I went to TC but I still want to reapply to work with them the next time I apply for doctoral programs so going to TC might help in some way.
- They are offering around $12k in aid for the first year but nothing the second year. TC is known for it's horrible funding so I'm not guaranteed any aid after the first year.

CONS:
- I absolutely do not like NY and it's super expensive but I am/was willing to try to adapt to it or hope that it would grow on me.
- I do not plan on applying to any NY area schools after getting my masters so I'm not sure if the networking is worth it (I heard that TC is excellent if you want to stay in the NY area for work/a doctoral program).
- I am not guaranteed any RA position or any spot in any lab and there would virtually be no opportunities for a TA position either.
- I've heard that it can be difficult for MA students to get research experience, publications, work in labs since the PhD students take precedent and there doesn't seem to be a large emphasis on research exposure, at least within the program outside of the MA thesis, but it seems like there are a lot of other factors that play into that.

Rutgers (Camden): PROS:
- I haven't been to the campus on an official visit but I it feels like it may be more "like me" or more like my type of environment. I am from Philly so it is definitely more of my style since it's right in my backyard (I'm not looking to commute from my family's house in PHL though so proximity is not being factored into the decision).
- All MA students are matched with a faculty advisor from day one and they are placed in that faculty member's lab in an RA position that will last the duration of the program. There are also TA positions available (more on that later).
- Even though they don't have the Risk and Resilience track that TC has, there are about 3 professors there who similar research interests (one is specifically a resilience researcher) and who have already expressed that they could act as potential advisors.
- There are no doctoral students in this psych department so there would be less competition for faculty attention and research opportunities and even if there was a lot of competition among graduate students, you are still in a guaranteed RA position in a lab with your thesis advisor, so maybe it would feel like everyone is sort of on the same page so to speak in that the program is designed for students who are seeking admission into doctoral programs (or people who just like research lol).

CONS:
- While TC is offering $12k in guaranteed aid, Rutgers would probably only give me $2,000-$3,000 the first year with me paying out-of state tuition. The thing is there are 3 special TA positions available in the second year that include TUITION REMISSION, A STIPEND (I've heard it's a nice amount too), and a health insurance package. I was told that that would cover the entire second year.
- I don't have transportation so getting around would be more difficult than it would be in NY.
- The aforementioned OOS tuition.
- I would certainly like a little more distance from my home town (I want to spread my wings some) and even though I don't really like NY a lot, it would be an opportunity to live in a place that I've never lived in before.
- It's in Camden (lol).
- TC has more interesting courses.

So what are some of your thoughts on what I should do? I have experience as a research assistant from undergrad, my GPA was 3.5, I did avg on the GRE but I am going to retake them soon, and I have a clearly defined idea of what I would like to do in my career. I've been out of school for a year now but I've been back and forth helping family members who have been sick and I was not able to find employment. I would like to pursue a career in academia, research, and teaching and maybe do some clinical work on the side if I pursue a clinical psych degree. I am mainly interested in developmental psychopathology, risk and resilience, and addiction. I already know where I want to apply for my PhD, it's just a matter of doing the work that's going to get me there. Forgot to mention that both programs claim to be research intensive and require a thesis (or special project according to TC) and the main reason why I am doing this is to gain more research experience and get my foot in the graduate door. I'll admit, I am interested in the prestige of TC (it is Columbia after all) but I'm trying to figure out if it is worth what I may have to pay for it.

So thoughts, feedback, advice, opinions, any information about either of these programs or any other information that could help with this decision would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Mod Note: Merged this into the "Help Me Decide" mega-thread

 

[nessa34]

I agree that rutgers sounds better. Have you looked into RA jobs, especially with the people you are interested in working with? If it's just research experience you need, that can be a good route as well, and it's paid.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[devpsych99]

Hi,

I vote for Rutgers because of the funding-opportunity, the faculty has similar interests (you don't need a program dedicated to Risk & Resilience...that can be your unique focus), and you will not need to negotiate NYC. Yes, Columbia has prestige, but so does Rutgers...so if you make the decision based on practicality, you will be in a strong position with a degree from Rutgers. It just sounds like you get more focused attention and can get more research experience at the Master's level from Rutgers, which will certainly make your more competitive for doctoral programs down the road. I personally would think about the match with the program, then the least debt option, and then the daily living experience.

I live in Manhattan, and the expensiveness can wear you down (a smaller box of Life cereal can cost $6.49 if you walk in the wrong store) so if you don't want to bother with any of it (public transportation, gritty city, etc.), then Columbia may not be right for you. Although...an MA usually takes only 2-3 yrs so if Columbia's prestige & Manhattan's intrigue lure you to choose Columbia, you won't be there that long and it will undoubtedly be a great experience for the future. (But...wait, you said you did NOT have transportation, so Manhattan is ideal for people w/o their own car!? I don't know how people travel around Rutgers but one of my close friends attended their doctoral program & lived in Manhattan & used public transportation.) If you love Columbia...you can always apply to their doctoral programs or for internship there (would be only 1-year in the city for internship), even though you said you don't plan to apply to NYC programs. 🙁

Remember, right now you don't know where you'll end up in a doctoral program, so you want to minimize your debt going in and hopefully also land a doctoral program with great funding. BTW congrats on the acceptances - you are on your way!

Good luck! Tough decision but good one to have!

Thank you and thanks for your response. If I accepted the offer from Rutgers I would just have to work really hard and keep my fingers crossed for one of those funded TA positions but I think there may also be some other forms of funding available in the second year if that does not happen for me. Since you live in Manhattan, do you have any information about the reputation of TC or how some of their former students liked it, assuming that you've come across a TC grad? The Camden campus of Rutgers is small but intimate so getting around campus may not be an issue, and you can take the PATCO rail line into Philly so that's useful if I found some research opportunities in the city. I could do the program at TC in a year and a half and the program at Rutgers is two years. Former students said they had a problem getting recommendations from professors at TC because the program is shorter and therefore you don't have such a great rapport with them. All of the former students I've spoken to at Rutgers-Camden are getting ready to go to psych doctoral programs and they said that the MA program is great for preparing for doctoral programs. Rutgers also has funding to send students to conferences. It just feels weird since TC/Columbia is offering more guaranteed funding.

I agree that rutgers sounds better. Have you looked into RA jobs, especially with the people you are interested in working with? If it's just research experience you need, that can be a good route as well, and it's paid.

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I have applied for paid RA positions but nothing has come through at this point. I even tried contacting different professors and departments to do volunteer work as an assistant and those did not come through either, and I wasn't limiting myself to positions in the Philly area. There was a professor in the clinical program at Temple that I was interesting in working with but she said that all RA positions or volunteer opportunities in her lab were reserved for current TU undergrads and grad students and thus there are no opportunities for me to volunteer. I am currently trying to contact a former communications professor of mine who had expressed interest in writing a paper together (kind of focusing on the influence of psychology and personality on preferred methods of communication), I'm just waiting for her to come back from vacation. It would be great if a publication could come from that.