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Hi all,
I posted the same question on grad cafe, got no replies so far, so here it is.

My ultimate goal is to get Ph.D in counseling psych.
but I got rejected by 9 schools that I applied this year :'(

but I got accepted to MS - U of Kentucky - counseling psych
and MA- Boston College- Mental Health Counseling

Which school will help me prepare for Ph.D program in 2 years?
I was leaning toward KY, then BC ranking is way higher...

Help me........please.....:idea:
 
Any other thoughts on the Rutgers vs. St. John's debate?

I don't want to offer any concrete advice because I am wait-listed at one of these two programs and therefore obviously biased. BUT, please make a decision soon!!! I'm dying to hear back but can only hold out for so long until I need to accept at my second choice school. That being said, the one piece of advice I have to offer is to consult with a professor or someone in the field who knows you well and can offer their two cents on which program is a better fit for your interests and financial situation. Good luck! I'm sure you will be very happy at either program, as they're both great!
 
Hi all,
I have recently been accepted into both Nova's and Florida Tech's PsyD programs. I have been trying to weigh the pro's and con's and am hoping to get some feedback about the programs from anyone who has been in one, is currently in one, or has some good input about either one. I know they are both expensive, and I know they differ greatly in class size (NSU admitting about 80 students and FIT about 20, both with varying faculty sizes). Each program seems promising and each one has professors that have similar interests as myself. I also have come to realize that it is much cheaper to live in Melbourne than it is in Ft. Lauderdale, and FIT offers RA positions as well as some graduate research scholarship programs.

Any information would be helpful! Thanks!

Hi there. Not sure if you've made your decision already but I was in a very similar situation to you regarding Nova and Florida Tech. I interviewed at both and in my opinion Florida Tech offered a ton more information and seemed genuinely invested in ensuring their students do what they need to do in order to secure an APA internship. On the other hand, Nova had a very "you should be happy you are even here" mentality. I inquired about their APA match rates (looks like although overall they are above the national average, only half go to APA and the other half to APPIC) and they treaded very lightly around this topic. The fact that they took the importance of APA internship so lightly was a big turn off for me. While I know that APPIC is becoming more acceptable due to the crisis, it should not take away from the importance. Lastly, the cohort size was an issue for me. I just don't see how 80 students could get the training they need.. granted, they have a larger faculty and some very prominent in the field, there is just something telling me that you really have to push and be very cut throat to grab the right professors attention. I'd rather know I have a supportive and flexible faculty that is easily approachable and will know me by name (seems to be the norm at FIT). It was a tough decision because I love south Florida and I love how they have some concentrations I am very interested in but at the end of the day I think FIT offers a bit better of an education and a more individualized approach to training. Just my 2 cents.. wish you the best of luck either way.
 
Hi all,
I posted the same question on grad cafe, got no replies so far, so here it is.

My ultimate goal is to get Ph.D in counseling psych.
but I got rejected by 9 schools that I applied this year :'(

but I got accepted to MS - U of Kentucky - counseling psych
and MA- Boston College- Mental Health Counseling

Which school will help me prepare for Ph.D program in 2 years?
I was leaning toward KY, then BC ranking is way higher...

Help me........please.....:idea:

Why were you leaning towards KY?

To prepare for Ph.D applications, you will need to get some good research experience. Which program would allow for that more? Does either program have faculty doing research in an area you want to pursue at the doctoral level? These are questions you should be asking yourself and the program.
Price differences?
 
a
I'm hoping someone could answer a question i've had trouble answering to others in my life when they ask why i'm going straight from bachelors to a doctoral program:
Because why would you waste your time and money with an MA if you don't need to?Most programs let you earn an MA en route anyhow

In what situation, or under what circumstances, would it be beneficial to attend a masters program as a stepping stone to improving one's chances to be admitted to a doctoral program?
Need to compensate for poor grades, show proficiency in a specific sub-field they hadn't taken coursework is, no other way to get research experience (this isn't likely). I got my terminal MA first because I wasn't entirely sold on getting a phd, and hadn't gotten research experience in undergrad when I thought I wanted a Psyd and didn't understand the value of money.

I understand a lot of what masters teaches is taught again in a phd program, and that little if any of it will transfer over. I also understand the price tag on a masters program can be hefty, especially compared to just buckling down at your alma mater and RA'ing for a mentor there for experience.

I'm a big fan of quality state/city universities if your area has them for this reason. Yup, you could even RA part time and work full time if you'd like. Just make sure you are getting good experience, not just gruntwork and no opportunities for scholarly work

What i've had trouble explaining is ignoring the potentially unique opportunity to better study some populations or topics that simply aren't available at my undergrad. I'm interested in assessment of threat and risk for future offending, assessment of competency, and understanding the etiology of violent crime and violent behavior -- the lab im volunteering at now is in human and animal cognition.

Only by a long stretch of explanation in a personal statement can i elaborate on how studying self regulation and self control gives me experience in studying individuals with impulsive personalities and their respective outcomes on our cognition tests. There's nothing else at my undergrad any closer to forensic psychology or its subtopics or i'd be RA'ing there as a volunteer instead.

Furthermore, i've heard attending a masters program sometimes puts you at a disadvantage when competing for a spot in a doctoral program.

Two questions: why is this? What is the thinking behind some (even a minority of) programs looking disparagingly at a masters before a doctorate?

Second: is it ( the unique chance to get relevant research experience and publishing opportunities) enough of a reason to pay for 2 or 3 years of masters knowing i'll go through a lot of it again?

Thanks in advance for any input..
 
I'm a long time lurker, first time poster. This site has always been a great reference! It seems I am in a similar position as a few other posters on here regarding both Florida Institute of Technology and Nova Southeastern University.

I simply cannot decide.. and the deadline is quickly approaching. Both have pros and cons but I just can't seem to find the pro to put one over the other. For instance, FIT has a heavy focus on assessment, which I am very interested in. However, I am concerned that with Melbourne being as small of a town that it is--- there may not be many practicum sites that match my interests. They seem to have decent match rates- most going to APA internships.

Nova on the other hand has a large faculty and many areas of specialization/concentration. It's also in a more diverse area with more practicum opportunity. The only peeve I have is the large cohort size and their APA/APPIC match rates, as another poster previously mentioned. Does anyone know what their APA match was this year?


If anyone can offer some advice on EITHER program I would really appreciate it. I have done a search on here and found what I've read helpful, but confusing. Seems like many people have the same qualms regarding cohort size but some are saying if you seek out the right people, you'll be okay at Nova.

PS- before anyone comments on my name being similar to Rorschach, I did not misspell it, rorsarch is my maiden name.
 
I have received offers from both and being highly recruited by MSPP. I an concerned and have read threads about their low APA match rates compared to the Chicago School which is so much higher, but I liked Boston. They say they give special attention to students admitted with a masters - is this true versus the Chicago School? Any advice as to which program is better would greatly appreciaetd because I really need to make up my mind ASAP.
 
I have received offers from both and being highly recruited by MSPP. I an concerned and have read threads about their low APA match rates compared to the Chicago School which is so much higher, but I liked Boston. They say they give special attention to students admitted with a masters - is this true versus the Chicago School? Any advice as to which program is better would greatly appreciaetd because I really need to make up my mind ASAP.

Hi GladysNic:

Neither. Both of these programs have very low APA internship match rates. Not obtaining an APA internship will limit your employment options and probably your salary potential since federal government jobs tend to be the highest paying clinically oriented jobs for psychologists.

Check out the doctorate employment survey for recent graduates. This will provide you with some data on expected salaries for a PsyD 1 year after graduating (spoiler alert: it is not high enough to justify loans and similar to starting salaries with a BA degree):

http://www.apa.org/workforce/publications/09-doc-empl/table-11.pdf
 
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I They say they give special attention to students admitted with a masters - is this true versus the Chicago School?

1. Sounds creepy...😀

2. Kinda insulting and unfair to those admitted with BA/BSs, dont you think?

3. Why would you wanna go to a school that admits it plays favorites and gives deferential/preferential treatment to certain members of your cohort?! Sounds like a recipe for producing and divided cohort/poor student relationships, and environment that would breed competitiveness and poor faculty student relationships...
 
Any other thoughts on the Rutgers vs. St. John's debate?

Congrats on getting into both programs! I want to echo the other poster on the research component of St. John's. If research in your heart of hearts is not your passion, I would choose Rutgers. St. John's emphasizes research training and it will be a tough journey to pretend you are passionate about it if your end goal is more clinically-oriented.

Funding difference should not be the deciding factor because Rutgers has excellent funding and stipends, and should also have a lower cost of living than St. John's.

Good luck!
 
I have received offers of admission to both The Chicago School and MSPP in CLinical Psychology PsyD. I am being heavily recruited by MSPP. They will recognize my Master's and admit me with advanced standing, which would shorten the program compared to Chicago by 1 year, but I am concerned about their low match with an APA internship, which I want to do. They said their published data is misleading and that they match 50% of those seeking an APA accredited internship, which would be similar to Chicago School. Can anyone tell me which is a better school, since I have read what is on this site, which seems to favor Chicago? I need to decide right away so any help is appreciated.
 
Hi there... I need some help making a choice between two funded PhD programs and thought, "who better than complete strangers?" 😳

I also don't want to give away too many details but here goes:

Program 1:
-love the research
-like all the professors in the department
-great external practica (somewhat due to location in a big city)
-good internship match rate
-did not get a good feeling from current students... everyone seemed extremely high strung and stressed out, and nobody seemed to be friends
-extremely health psych focused

Program 2:
-like the research enough
-POI is supportive and willing to be flexible
-limited external practica (due to location)
-GREAT internship match rate
-everyone seems extremely friendly, they seem to like each other a lot/ I felt happier here
-opportunities to get some health psych experience
-summer funding!

I kind of feel like I'm having to choose between being a bit unhappy in the short term feeling very solid in terms of future career direction or being happy for the short term but feeling a bit less solid in the direction of my career. Any thoughts? Thanks so much!
 
They said their published data is misleading and that they match 50% of those seeking an APA accredited internship, which would be similar to Chicago School.

Both have an APA match rate of 50%? Neither.
 
1. Sounds creepy...😀

2. Kinda insulting and unfair to those admitted with BA/BSs, dont you think?

3. Why would you wanna go to a school that admits it plays favorites and gives deferential/preferential treatment to certain members of your cohort?! Sounds like a recipe for producing and divided cohort/poor student relationships, and environment that would breed competitiveness and poor faculty student relationships...

See my post above regarding your earlier question. I don't think anyone here would recommend either one. Too much money, too much risk. Apply again or do something else.
 
Hi there... I need some help making a choice between two funded PhD programs and thought, "who better than complete strangers?" 😳

I also don't want to give away too many details but here goes:

Program 1:
-love the research
-like all the professors in the department
-great external practica (somewhat due to location in a big city)
-good internship match rate
-did not get a good feeling from current students... everyone seemed extremely high strung and stressed out, and nobody seemed to be friends
-extremely health psych focused

Program 2:
-like the research enough
-POI is supportive and willing to be flexible
-limited external practica (due to location)
-GREAT internship match rate
-everyone seems extremely friendly, they seem to like each other a lot/ I felt happier here
-opportunities to get some health psych experience
-summer funding!

I kind of feel like I'm having to choose between being a bit unhappy in the short term feeling very solid in terms of future career direction or being happy for the short term but feeling a bit less solid in the direction of my career. Any thoughts? Thanks so much!

If I was in your position I'd pick program 2, hands down. It sounds like you felt more comfortable and welcome there, and I think that's very important. I'd imagine grad school is much easier to get through if you're a part of a supportive and friendly environment. Just my two cents!
 
DISCLAIMER: This is my first post, but I am already not interested in hearing yet another opinion about the massive debt-load I am taking on by attending a largely un-funded Psy.D program, nor am I interested in hearing that APA internship match rate should be the primary deciding factor. I am an excellent student, test very well (National Merit Scholar, 99th percentile on GRE), have a great (if non-traditional) clinical background working with brain injury rehabilitation, and interview well. Even if Wright only places 40-something percent of students in APA internships, I will 100% be one of them. Yeshiva's higher prestige level is one factor, but I am not interested in replies stating that it should be THE factor. Thanks.

I was admitted to all four Psy.D programs I applied to (Pacific, Antioch New England, Wright Institute and Yeshiva). I have already passed on the offers from Pacific and Antioch New England, and just was notified today that I made it into Yeshiva via the waitlist. I have three days to decide. Here are my priorities (more or less in order), and how the programs each address them:

Clinical Training - Yeshiva gets point for rigor, but both programs place you in clinical situations early and often, and both have incredible connections in their local communities. Both have small group lab set-ups designed to help students integrate academic theory with practice.

Commitment to Social Justice - Wright Institute in a landslide, it's a foundational principle of the program.

Opportunity to work with diverse populations - both are strong, locations in the bay area and the bronx are incredible for this.

Neuropsych Concentration (not a lock that I want to do a post-doc and go the full route, but want the option at this point) - Yeshiva's is more in-depth, spanning multiple years, while Wright trains generalists but offers a 3rd-year specialization in neuropsych. The Wright neuropsych professor reports 100% of students who took this concentration and pursued neuropsych APA internships were successful in obtaining them and subsequent post-docs.

Core Faculty - Yeshiva has prestige (clinical director is prez of the int'l association of cognitive therapists), but Wright's core faculty impressed me more during interviews and panels, demonstrating incredible depth and breadth of professional involvement and understanding of how to train practitioners to meet the community's needs.

CBT training - Yeshiva's will be more in-depth.

Program Size - Yeshiva takes ~25, Wright takes ~55. Point to Yeshiva.

Research training and opportunities - Yeshiva will be more research-focused, which is not a huge personal priority, but something I am happy to do to contribute to the field and keep more professional doors open. At Wright I will have to work harder to create opportunities (outside of my dissertation), but I will also not be asked to divert time to contribute to research that is not my area of interest.

Location - Purely on a self-care basis, I need lots of cardio to be the healthiest, happiest student possible, and I really want a dog. In Berkeley/Oakland I could bike to/from class every day, play ultimate frisbee, soccer, and tennis year-round, and get a dog easily. In NY, I'd be fighting frigid rain/snow and leaving the city altogether to get field space for sports, and finding a dog-friendly apt will add to the difficulty of being a renter in NY. Quality of life points go to Wright.

Now that I've dumped out entirely too much information - I still haven't made a decision. Appreciate any and all thoughts, keeping in mind the disclaimer above. Thanks!
 
There are 2-3 CA neuropsychologists on here, so maybe they can speak to Wright, but my impression of them is that they'd be a very poor fit for someone interested in studying neuropsych. They aren't known for it, they have a horrid APA match rate, and their research reputation is poor. The field is competitive enough before having to overcome those perceptions too, as most Div40 fellowships are at academically affiliated hospitals, and they *do* care about your training program.

I can't speak to Yeshiva.
 
There are 2-3 CA neuropsychologists on here, so maybe they can speak to Wright, but my impression of them is that they'd be a very poor fit for someone interested in studying neuropsych. They aren't known for it, they have a horrid APA match rate, and their research reputation is poor. The field is competitive enough before having to overcome those perceptions too, as most Div40 fellowships are at academically affiliated hospitals, and they *do* care about your training program.

I can't speak to Yeshiva.

DISCLAIMER: This is my first post, but I am already not interested in hearing yet another opinion about the massive debt-load I am taking on by attending a largely un-funded Psy.D program, nor am I interested in hearing that APA internship match rate should be the primary deciding factor. I am an excellent student, test very well (National Merit Scholar, 99th percentile on GRE), have a great (if non-traditional) clinical background working with brain injury rehabilitation, and interview well. Even if Wright only places 40-something percent of students in APA internships, I will 100% be one of them. Yeshiva's higher prestige level is one factor, but I am not interested in replies stating that it should be THE factor. Thanks.

I was admitted to all four Psy.D programs I applied to (Pacific, Antioch New England, Wright Institute and Yeshiva). I have already passed on the offers from Pacific and Antioch New England, and just was notified today that I made it into Yeshiva via the waitlist. I have three days to decide. Here are my priorities (more or less in order), and how the programs each address them:

Clinical Training - Yeshiva gets point for rigor, but both programs place you in clinical situations early and often, and both have incredible connections in their local communities. Both have small group lab set-ups designed to help students integrate academic theory with practice.

Commitment to Social Justice - Wright Institute in a landslide, it's a foundational principle of the program.

Opportunity to work with diverse populations - both are strong, locations in the bay area and the bronx are incredible for this.

Neuropsych Concentration (not a lock that I want to do a post-doc and go the full route, but want the option at this point) - Yeshiva's is more in-depth, spanning multiple years, while Wright trains generalists but offers a 3rd-year specialization in neuropsych. The Wright neuropsych professor reports 100% of students who took this concentration and pursued neuropsych APA internships were successful in obtaining them and subsequent post-docs.

Core Faculty - Yeshiva has prestige (clinical director is prez of the int'l association of cognitive therapists), but Wright's core faculty impressed me more during interviews and panels, demonstrating incredible depth and breadth of professional involvement and understanding of how to train practitioners to meet the community's needs.

CBT training - Yeshiva's will be more in-depth.

Program Size - Yeshiva takes ~25, Wright takes ~55. Point to Yeshiva.

Research training and opportunities - Yeshiva will be more research-focused, which is not a huge personal priority, but something I am happy to do to contribute to the field and keep more professional doors open. At Wright I will have to work harder to create opportunities (outside of my dissertation), but I will also not be asked to divert time to contribute to research that is not my area of interest.

Location - Purely on a self-care basis, I need lots of cardio to be the healthiest, happiest student possible, and I really want a dog. In Berkeley/Oakland I could bike to/from class every day, play ultimate frisbee, soccer, and tennis year-round, and get a dog easily. In NY, I'd be fighting frigid rain/snow and leaving the city altogether to get field space for sports, and finding a dog-friendly apt will add to the difficulty of being a renter in NY. Quality of life points go to Wright.

Now that I've dumped out entirely too much information - I still haven't made a decision. Appreciate any and all thoughts, keeping in mind the disclaimer above. Thanks!

Berkely has very entitled hippies activitists. = drawback. :laugh:

I am glad to see the internal locus of control, but I would warn you that the nature of the internship imbalance removes this somewhat. I would do Yesheiva.
 
Even if Wright only places 40-something percent of students in APA internships, I will 100% be one of them.

Probably not, sorry. The match imbalance doesn't discriminate--I know plenty of qualified, competitive applicants who didn't match their first time around.

Location - Purely on a self-care basis, I need lots of cardio to be the healthiest, happiest student possible, and I really want a dog. In Berkeley/Oakland I could bike to/from class every day, play ultimate frisbee, soccer, and tennis year-round, and get a dog easily. In NY, I'd be fighting frigid rain/snow and leaving the city altogether to get field space for sports, and finding a dog-friendly apt will add to the difficulty of being a renter in NY. Quality of life points go to Wright.

NYC has gyms and the weather isn't that bad. Also, I've heard baaaad things about Oakland. Very, very bad things.
 
as a new yorker, i must tell you that there is plenty of space for outdoor activities. while we do get some snow/snowish rain in the winter, it really isn't that bad.

i think you will also find that there are plenty of dog friendly apts. i have never had an issue with this, and i have moved around a bit with my terrier in tow.

as the more senior members have suggested, i would choose based on internship match rates. good luck with your decision!
 
Hi there. Not sure if you've made your decision already but I was in a very similar situation to you regarding Nova and Florida Tech. I interviewed at both and in my opinion Florida Tech offered a ton more information and seemed genuinely invested in ensuring their students do what they need to do in order to secure an APA internship. On the other hand, Nova had a very "you should be happy you are even here" mentality. I inquired about their APA match rates (looks like although overall they are above the national average, only half go to APA and the other half to APPIC) and they treaded very lightly around this topic. The fact that they took the importance of APA internship so lightly was a big turn off for me. While I know that APPIC is becoming more acceptable due to the crisis, it should not take away from the importance. Lastly, the cohort size was an issue for me. I just don't see how 80 students could get the training they need.. granted, they have a larger faculty and some very prominent in the field, there is just something telling me that you really have to push and be very cut throat to grab the right professors attention. I'd rather know I have a supportive and flexible faculty that is easily approachable and will know me by name (seems to be the norm at FIT). It was a tough decision because I love south Florida and I love how they have some concentrations I am very interested in but at the end of the day I think FIT offers a bit better of an education and a more individualized approach to training. Just my 2 cents.. wish you the best of luck either way.

Thanks for the input. I agree with you and I have decided to go with FIT. It was also a red flag when I was waiting with a group of applicants outside after the Nova interview and a woman whom I believed worked for the university told us we were making a big mistake considering their program. Yikes.
 
I'm a long time lurker, first time poster. This site has always been a great reference! It seems I am in a similar position as a few other posters on here regarding both Florida Institute of Technology and Nova Southeastern University.

I simply cannot decide.. and the deadline is quickly approaching. Both have pros and cons but I just can't seem to find the pro to put one over the other. For instance, FIT has a heavy focus on assessment, which I am very interested in. However, I am concerned that with Melbourne being as small of a town that it is--- there may not be many practicum sites that match my interests. They seem to have decent match rates- most going to APA internships.

Nova on the other hand has a large faculty and many areas of specialization/concentration. It's also in a more diverse area with more practicum opportunity. The only peeve I have is the large cohort size and their APA/APPIC match rates, as another poster previously mentioned. Does anyone know what their APA match was this year?


If anyone can offer some advice on EITHER program I would really appreciate it. I have done a search on here and found what I've read helpful, but confusing. Seems like many people have the same qualms regarding cohort size but some are saying if you seek out the right people, you'll be okay at Nova.

PS- before anyone comments on my name being similar to Rorschach, I did not misspell it, rorsarch is my maiden name.

Hi! Was in the same boat but decided on FIT. Novas match rate was I think around 60% if I remember correctly - some people at my table were discussing it. I know it's far less than FIT which they said was around 93% I believe. And when I talked to some of my professors about Nova they referred to it as a "degree mill" because of the large number admitted students.
Good luck with your decision!
 
Hi! Was in the same boat but decided on FIT. Novas match rate was I think around 60% if I remember correctly - some people at my table were discussing it. I know it's far less than FIT which they said was around 93% I believe. And when I talked to some of my professors about Nova they referred to it as a "degree mill" because of the large number admitted students.
Good luck with your decision!

Because your post prompted me to look up the data:

FIT's APA match-rate has varied between 81-90% over the last seven years; most recently, it was 84% (http://cpla.fit.edu/clinical/outcomes.php)

Nova's PsyD APA match rate has varied between 42-61% over the same time period; most recently, it was 42% (http://cps.nova.edu/programs/psyd/trainingoutcomes_psyd.html).

Similarly, FIT's incoming class size has ranged between 16-28 students per cohort while Nova's has been between 73-91.

IIRC, FIT has somewhat better funding as well, although neither is fully funded.
 
Location - Purely on a self-care basis, I need lots of cardio to be the healthiest, happiest student possible, and I really want a dog. In Berkeley/Oakland I could bike to/from class every day, play ultimate frisbee, soccer, and tennis year-round, and get a dog easily. In NY, I'd be fighting frigid rain/snow and leaving the city altogether to get field space for sports, and finding a dog-friendly apt will add to the difficulty of being a renter in NY. Quality of life points go to Wright.

...reality check: not much time for cardio
 
I am trying to decide between the two degrees and am really not sure which option is right for me. I have already been accepted into a Psy.D. program and a Counseling MA program. (did not get accepted into any Ph.D.'s.) I want to be a "dr" because of how good it feels to achieve and come out on top, especially because I've been in the valley and know how good it feels to overcome things. I can't stop thinking about the doctorate because I like school and love achieving things/ challenging myself. At the same time, I am not sure if the doctorate is necessary for my professional goals. I want to work with people and issues in their lives. I don't think I am as interested in research, but it is important to the Psy.D.program I was accepted into. The program requires a dissertation, which does not appeal to me. I am not sure if I want to do assessment or not. I also have doubts about my time management skills, but I know I am capable as I earned a 3.8 in undergrad. I just feel that getting the masters is a step down since I have always said I would be a "psychologist" not a "counselor". I guess I never respected the counseling profession as much because it didn't involve going for the top. Since I worked so hard in high school and undergrad to be accepted into multiple Psyd programs, I feel it I would be letting myself down by not going for the gold. But is this a good reason to go to school for 5 years and have lots of debt and pretty much be able to do the same thing except for assessment?
 
I am trying to decide between the two degrees and am really not sure which option is right for me. I have already been accepted into a Psy.D. program and a Counseling MA program. (did not get accepted into any Ph.D.'s.) I want to be a "dr" because of how good it feels to achieve and come out on top, especially because I've been in the valley and know how good it feels to overcome things. I can't stop thinking about the doctorate because I like school and love achieving things/ challenging myself. At the same time, I am not sure if the doctorate is necessary for my professional goals. I want to work with people and issues in their lives. I don't think I am as interested in research, but it is important to the Psy.D.program I was accepted into. The program requires a dissertation, which does not appeal to me. I am not sure if I want to do assessment or not. I also have doubts about my time management skills, but I know I am capable as I earned a 3.8 in undergrad. I just feel that getting the masters is a step down since I have always said I would be a "psychologist" not a "counselor". I guess I never respected the counseling profession as much because it didn't involve going for the top. Since I worked so hard in high school and undergrad to be accepted into multiple Psyd programs, I feel it I would be letting myself down by not going for the gold. But is this a good reason to go to school for 5 years and have lots of debt and pretty much be able to do the same thing except for assessment?

I know you're struggling with the possibility of not "shooting for the top," but I think that being the major reason for choosing a doctorate over a masters is going to be problematic for you. Getting a doctorate is a LOT of time, energy, and poor income (or, in the case of a PsyD, debt). It sounds like to do what you want to do, that getting a doctorate is overkill. I wonder that once you have your masters and have entered the workforce, doing what you want to do (not doing a dissertation!) and not having the stress of a lot of debt, that you will be more happy with that route. It seems like you might need to engage in some self-therapy to open yourself up to objectively considering which option is legitimately best for you. From the way you outlined the above, it sounds like the cons of considering the counseling are mostly psychological (your attitude toward the profession, accepting not going for the highest degree because it is psychologically appealing) and perhaps could be changed.
 
But is this a good reason to go to school for 5 years and have lots of debt and pretty much be able to do the same thing except for assessment?

This is far too reductionistic a view of the differences and strengths of education for each degree. It will also take longer than 5 yrs to complete doctoral training and become licensed.
 
Thanks for the replies! Actually I was considering going into private practice (after working for a group practice) rather than working at an agency. I'm not 100% sure I want to do counseling and nothing else. I just don't know enough about assessment to know if I would like/be good at it. I think severe disorders are interesting (which you would deal with more as a psychologist). Which degree would you recommend in that case?

Another consideration is that I want the highest level of training I can get to be the best psychologist/counselor. And I like the challenge/academic excellence factor of the doctorate.

Also, while I'm not focusing on the money, I wonder how each would pan out financially. Counselors make $43,000 on ave, psychologists make $68,000. The Psy.D. program I got into (which has an excellent reputation and is APA accredited. It only accepts 14 students a year and has high internship match rates (85%)) would cost $60,000 total. The MA counseling program (also reputable and CACREP accredited) is $22,000 total (no living expenses for either). I also heard there is a glut of MA level counselors (harder to get a job?)
 
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Hi everyone! Does anyone have any insight into the Psyd program at Loma Linda University? Minus the religious aspect, is it a legit program? I know some Psyd programs have uncertain reviews, etc. Thanks.
 
Hi all, first post here. I'm 24 and coming from an unrelated background so I stand at the foot of the mountain before me. I'm interested in a few areas of psychology, but I hope to sort that out while doing my Master's. My main interest is in clinical practice, but I want the option to do research or teach later, so a PhD is a must. I currently live in Europe teaching English and think I would like to live here long term. I've found that in the UK they offer 'conversion' Masters that are designed for people coming from an unrelated background. Does anyone here know about these and how they are received in the US? I know that for Brits it doesn´t matter which program you go to as long as it´s accredited, but for someone in my situation (who may return to the US) is prestige more important? Is it worth the extra (couple/few) thousand pounds for a more reputable name?

Thanks!
 
Hi all, first post here. I'm 24 and coming from an unrelated background so I stand at the foot of the mountain before me. I'm interested in a few areas of psychology, but I hope to sort that out while doing my Master's. My main interest is in clinical practice, but I want the option to do research or teach later, so a PhD is a must. I currently live in Europe teaching English and think I would like to live here long term. I've found that in the UK they offer 'conversion' Masters that are designed for people coming from an unrelated background. Does anyone here know about these and how they are received in the US? I know that for Brits it doesn´t matter which program you go to as long as it´s accredited, but for someone in my situation (who may return to the US) is prestige more important? Is it worth the extra (couple/few) thousand pounds for a more reputable name?

Thanks!
Idk how the uk component factors but I decided to do a ms to explore my interests before deciding on the doc and I deeply regret the debt i incurred. If u will need to borrow or pay to get the masters then it's not a good stepping stone to a doc. If these comments are irrelevant bc of the uk piece, my apologies. I couldn't quite tell if u r staying or returning for the degree pursuit.
 
I have to choose! Help!

Roosevelt is only 20,000 a year and in Chicago which is a city I know and love. There seemed to be a lot of support for the students, and a cohort size of 20 seems just big enough to be able to choose friends, but still have small classes.

DU is like...40 or 50,000. BUT you can do it in only 3 years. Thing is, everyone I talked to said that most people do not, and end up with a forth year. Denver is a cool city, but I don't know anyone there/haven't really been there. Also, the cohort size is a bit worrisome- 40 or so.

What do you guys think? The clock is ticking. I am leaning towards Roosevelt but thought I would ask the vast Internets first... 😎


Anyone have opinions?
No go on DU. There is no way you can finish your doctorate in 3 years, unless it is a post-masters program. Even then, why make a 20K+ gamble? Tuition is only half of what you'll pay. Going private, with all loans, expect 50K+ per year. At least. Have you capped out of your federal direct loans? Think of the investment vs the return, and the options you have in both places.

I'd def go with Roosevelt, though there are better schools in Chicago to apply to IMO.
 
Hi all, I'm hoping a few people out there can offer some advice. A little background- my career aim is to become a neuropsychologist; my main research interests are learning disabilities and attention problems (ADHD mainly). I have been accepted to two programs, the first is ranked between 100 and 110 for clinical program in USNews; there is a ped neuropsychologist on faculty who would be my mentor, she has a strong interest in dyslexia research (very close to what I want to do), but no one else at the school does anything I'm particularly interested in. School 2 is ranked between 40 and 50 in USNews for clinical programs (pretty big difference); there are no neuropsychologists on faculty, but several neuroscience-geared research faculty so there are plenty of neuro-anatomy classes and opportunities for imaging and EEG experience; they also have a whole center dedicated to reading research- neural basis as well as paper and pencil testing- but again no neuropsychologists on staff. So....what do I do? Do I need a neuropsych mentor as a grad student? How much does rank of the program matter long term?
 
1. USN&WR rankings mean absolutely nothing in the world of psychology.

2. It is more important to have a mentor who works in your area than have a program that caters to your area. A mentor can provide training and help you gain exposure to more relevant experiences. I'm a big fan of students gaining experience with neuroanatomy, neurophysiology, etc…but as an add-on for good mentorship, not as an alternative to it. There are opportunities to gain that kind of experience on internship, fellowship, etc.

3. Make sure whichever program you choose offers good funding. Getting good training is all well and good, but if you come out with $150k+ in loans you would have done yourself a great disservice because it'll take you most of your career to get out from under that amount of debt.
 
Thanks for the feedback, I'm still torn so I'm going to elaborate on the two choices to see if it helps explain the dilemma better🙂
So though USN&WR rankings might not matter much, there are other differences in the programs that suggest big differences in quality to me- the lower ranked school generally accepts doc students right out of undergrad- almost never any pubs or poster presentations- maybe a few semesters helping out with a lab; the other school generally admits students who have 2-3 years of research experience and a couple posters possibly a paper under their belt- they're more mature, more focused. The second school's mentor doesn't have neuropsych experience but his research focus is on phonological short term memory and visuo-spatial memory, their relationship to attention problems in kids and how that affects academic performance- similar concepts that neuropsych folks look at I think (and definitely close to the clinical population and research topics I'm interested in), but he didn't complete a fellowship in neuro,
What I'm really afraid of is, that I go to school number 2, take a bunch of neuro classes but can't get into a neuro internship because I didn't work with a neuropsychologist as a grad student, and didn't do a bunch of neuropsych testing during practica. I really want to learn about the neural basis of deficits I'd be assessing/treating and feel like neuropsych is the best way to do that. Does that make the decision a bit clearer?
 
Hey just got accepted to U Hart would love to know if you accepted and why or why not. I also have an issue with their diversity and lack of on site clinic for training.
 
I am contemplating between Adler School of Professional Psychology, Chicago School of Professional Psychology, or Massachusetts School of Professional Psychology for a Clinical Psych PsyD. Adler and Chicago School have neuropsych concentrations which I am interested in but would only transfer about 21 credits of my MA degree and MSPP would start me automatically in the second yr of the program (but I like living in Chicago better).

Now, I will finish my 60 credit hr clinical psych MA this summer and I originally was looking for clinical phd programs but my chances are looking slim on that end... My dilemma is IF I should do a clinical psych PsyD (with about $35,000/yr tuition in loans on top of my loans now ~$130,000) AND then which one??
 
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I am contemplating between Adler School of Professional Psychology, Chicago School of Professional Psychology, or Massachusetts School of Professional Psychology for a Clinical Psych PsyD. Adler and Chicago School have neuropsych concentrations which I am interested in but would only transfer about 21 credits of my MA degree and MSPP would start me automatically in the second yr of the program (but I like living in Chicago better).

Now, I will finish my 60 credit hr clinical psych MA this summer and I originally was looking for clinical phd programs but my chances are looking slim on that end... My dilemma is IF I should do a clinical psych PsyD (with about $35,000/yr tuition in loans on top of my loans now ~$130,000) AND then which one??

What is the difference in income between working with your ma and getting a psyd? Does it outweigh the extra loans & lost time of getting a psyd, taking into account the likelihood of getting an internship and getting licensed coming from any of these schools?
 
What is the difference in income between working with your ma and getting a psyd? Does it outweigh the extra loans & lost time of getting a psyd, taking into account the likelihood of getting an internship and getting licensed coming from any of these schools?
Average salary of an LPC in Clinical Psych (which would be what I'd be starting this summer for about 2yrs) in Chicago is around $38,000-$42,000.
Average salary of an LCPC in Clinical Psych (which would be what I'd be after about 2yrs) in Chicago is around $42,000-$53,000.
Average salary of a PsyD in Clinical Psych in Chicago is $90,000-ish.
 
Average salary of an LPC in Clinical Psych (which would be what I'd be starting this summer for about 2yrs) in Chicago is around $38,000-$42,000.
Average salary of an LCPC in Clinical Psych (which would be what I'd be after about 2yrs) in Chicago is around $42,000-$53,000.
Average salary of a PsyD in Clinical Psych in Chicago is $90,000-ish.

$90,000 seems high based on what what I've heard, but I'm not an expert on these numbers. What about the rest of the questions? These are not exactly top tier schools in terms of outcomes.
 
$90,000 seems high based on what what I've heard, but I'm not an expert on these numbers. What about the rest of the questions? These are not exactly top tier schools in terms of outcomes.
What do you mean by the rest of the questions? And these numbers are based on a google search so who knows :]

Would you take a year off (where my loans would kick in in January to start repaying) and reapply to better Clinical Psych PsyD programs and more PhD programs again? If I did not do well this round for PhDs, why should I expect to do differently next year? I believe my GRE scores hindered me but I retook it last year and did the same as I did 2yrs ago....
 
What do you mean by the rest of the questions? And these numbers are based on a google search so who knows :]

Would you take a year off (where my loans would kick in in January to start repaying) and reapply to better Clinical Psych PsyD programs and more PhD programs again? If I did not do well this round for PhDs, why should I expect to do differently next year? I believe my GRE scores hindered me but I retook it last year and did the same as I did 2yrs ago....

When you look at grad schools, you want to make sure you can finish (look at attrition rates and time to completion), that you can get an apa internship (look at apa internship match rates), and that you can get licensed (look at eppp pass rates and licensure %). Take a look at other forum posts or http://psychologygradschool.weebly.com/ .

And yes, I wouldn't let fear of going into repayment to drive me to take on six figure loans at an unfunded program. Have you sat down with an online loan calculator to figure out what your monthly payment would be afterwards? it will likely financially hobble you for decades. I would take a year or two off to work on the weaknesses in my application, whether that's gaining clarity about what I'm looking for in graduate school, research experience, GREs, or anything else.
 
When you look at grad schools, you want to make sure you can finish (look at attrition rates and time to completion), that you can get an apa internship (look at apa internship match rates), and that you can get licensed (look at eppp pass rates and licensure %). Take a look at other forum posts or http://psychologygradschool.weebly.com/ .

And yes, I wouldn't let fear of going into repayment to drive me to take on six figure loans at an unfunded program. Have you sat down with an online loan calculator to figure out what your monthly payment would be afterwards? it will likely financially hobble you for decades. I would take a year or two off to work on the weaknesses in my application, whether that's gaining clarity about what I'm looking for in graduate school, research experience, GREs, or anything else.
I'm just concerned my scores won't go up enough on the GRE to be competitive still. I wouldn't apply to other PsyD programs I don't think because I want to live here :/
 
RIGHT OFF THE BAT: Let's avoid the usual PsyD/PhD money debate that happens on these forums. I get it, I get it, but let's just assume that I can afford the degree and stop worrying about that.

Okay, so, money aside (and I recognize that's a BIG aside)—are there any current or former students who can tell me what they think of the program? I've been offered admission and am seriously considering attending, but am curious to hear what people have to say, both positive and negative.

Thanks!
 
I think you could do alot worse, but also alot better. You have forbiden disccussion of the biggest contraindication of the program. I am not sure why someone would but such a huge variable on the backburner.
 
I think you could do alot worse, but also alot better. You have forbiden disccussion of the biggest contraindication of the program. I am not sure why someone would but such a huge variable on the backburner.

Well, you found a back door way to talk about it, anyway. Trust that I'm considering that variable, but I want to have a conversation independent of it.

The other programs I'm considering are Widener and Roosevelt.
 
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