HELP: UCLA v. Harbor v. UW PC

[stormshadow]

Howdy, I'm looking for some help! (I'm not sure yet what I'm going into as far as fellowship)

Really liked U. Washington and will rank their categorical program high, but am unsure where to rank the primary care-Seattle track. It doesn't seem all that different other than more clinic/less elective time, but am wondering what the implications would be as far as fellowship placement. BTW if anyone has any insight into "touchy-feely" aspects of this program, i.e. resident happiness, administrative support, etc. I'd love to hear about it - I liked what I saw, but I feel I only got to see a small part.

UCLA and Harbor - I think I liked Harbor more, but am concerned about the financial situation of LA county hospitals. UCLA seems to have a reputation for being incredibly malignant, though I didn't get that impression when I interviewed. Also read some older posts about how the PD doesn't seem to be very supportive - is the current PD (Friedman) new? She seemed like a nice supportive person to me... And while the intern year is supposed to be tough, is it going to be much tougher than at Harbor (they seemed to work their tails off)?

Appreciate any info/advice!

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[Jamezuva]

Howdy, I'm looking for some help! (I'm not sure yet what I'm going into as far as fellowship)

Really liked U. Washington and will rank their categorical program high, but am unsure where to rank the primary care-Seattle track. It doesn't seem all that different other than more clinic/less elective time, but am wondering what the implications would be as far as fellowship placement. BTW if anyone has any insight into "touchy-feely" aspects of this program, i.e. resident happiness, administrative support, etc. I'd love to hear about it - I liked what I saw, but I feel I only got to see a small part.

UCLA and Harbor - I think I liked Harbor more, but am concerned about the financial situation of LA county hospitals. UCLA seems to have a reputation for being incredibly malignant, though I didn't get that impression when I interviewed. Also read some older posts about how the PD doesn't seem to be very supportive - is the current PD (Friedman) new? She seemed like a nice supportive person to me... And while the intern year is supposed to be tough, is it going to be much tougher than at Harbor (they seemed to work their tails off)?

Appreciate any info/advice!

UW: best rep of the 3, you will get great fellowship opportunities here even if you do the PC track as evidenced by their fellowship lists.

UCLA: Don't know about the PD b/c she was absent the day I interviewed and absent during other days as well. The main complaint I've heard about it is that there is too much tertiary/quaternary care (esp. transplant patients). Fellowship placement is almost all solely in southern cali, so if you want to go somewhere else, your opportunities probably will not be as strong as UW

Harbor: Definitely you'll have the most scut here, but also the most autonomy. They get better than expected fellowship placement because of that reputation. Plus, once you finish, you'll be able to tackle ANYTHING that comes your way medically.

 

[bof]

if you really liked UW, i would rank the PC program highly. i do think that there are implications for fellowship down the line, and that is a decision you are going to have to make for yourself.

UCLA has probably the best reputation out of the three that you mentioned, and is definately one of the strongest programs in LA. residents seem to want to stay in socal, but i don't think you will have a problem getting into a fellowship outside of california, if that is your thing. i think that all top programs are pretty malignant, so hard work isn't a deal breaker for me.

Habor is also a top program. National reputation is nowhere near the other two, but within california, the rep is pretty decent. You will probably work hard, do some scut, but you may learn the most out of the three programs. I think in comparison to UCLA-CHS, it really boils down to learning style. People that are attracted to the autonomy of a county program, don't really mind the scut as much. If an one hospital, county experience is your thing, Harbor is the choice.

Howdy, I'm looking for some help! (I'm not sure yet what I'm going into as far as fellowship)

Really liked U. Washington and will rank their categorical program high, but am unsure where to rank the primary care-Seattle track. It doesn't seem all that different other than more clinic/less elective time, but am wondering what the implications would be as far as fellowship placement. BTW if anyone has any insight into "touchy-feely" aspects of this program, i.e. resident happiness, administrative support, etc. I'd love to hear about it - I liked what I saw, but I feel I only got to see a small part.

UCLA and Harbor - I think I liked Harbor more, but am concerned about the financial situation of LA county hospitals. UCLA seems to have a reputation for being incredibly malignant, though I didn't get that impression when I interviewed. Also read some older posts about how the PD doesn't seem to be very supportive - is the current PD (Friedman) new? She seemed like a nice supportive person to me... And while the intern year is supposed to be tough, is it going to be much tougher than at Harbor (they seemed to work their tails off)?

Appreciate any info/advice!

 

[Jamezuva]

if you really liked UW, i would rank the PC program highly. i do think that there are implications for fellowship down the line, and that is a decision you are going to have to make for yourself.

UCLA has probably the best reputation out of the three that you mentioned, and is definately one of the strongest programs in LA. residents seem to want to stay in socal, but i don't think you will have a problem getting into a fellowship outside of california, if that is your thing. i think that all top programs are pretty malignant, so hard work isn't a deal breaker for me.

Habor is also a top program. National reputation is nowhere near the other two, but within california, the rep is pretty decent. You will probably work hard, do some scut, but you may learn the most out of the three programs. I think in comparison to UCLA-CHS, it really boils down to learning style. People that are attracted to the autonomy of a county program, don't really mind the scut as much. If an one hospital, county experience is your thing, Harbor is the choice.

really??...u think UCLA has a better national rep than UW?? May I ask why?

 

[lostforever]

UCLA and Harbor - I think I liked Harbor more, but am concerned about the financial situation of LA county hospitals. UCLA seems to have a reputation for being incredibly malignant, though I didn't get that impression when I interviewed. Also read some older posts about how the PD doesn't seem to be very supportive - is the current PD (Friedman) new? She seemed like a nice supportive person to me... And while the intern year is supposed to be tough, is it going to be much tougher than at Harbor (they seemed to work their tails off)?

Appreciate any info/advice!

These postings seem pretty honest. Pick Harbor if you like the autonomy and think seeing a wide variety is how you like to learn. Don't worry about the financial situation with county hospitals, it is more a myth than reality. Harbor has a large volume of research that helps subsidize the hospital. King-Drew closed because it had many medical errors not because of financial constraints. I hope this helps.

 

[sharsky]

i have also heard ucla is malignant. i have ran into some ucla med students who rotated at the ucla-chs site and said some attendings there are malignant. is this true? the attending that interviewed me was really nice. and alot of residents i spoke with complained that intern year was really hard but i think this is expected in many programs. in terms of not seeing enough bread and butter medicine, they say you see those cases but just on top of more complex transplant patients. i'm not sure if this means you learn more or not. but they said when they rotate at olive-view, everything there seems much simpler/easier to manage so they made it sound like a good thing.

 

[CernerDrone]

UCLA medical center is #3 in the nation next to Johns Hopkins and Mayo.

People do fellowships in So Cal because they WANT to stay there I'm assuming. Who wouldn't? =)

 

[orientedtoself]

UCLA medical center is #3 in the nation next to Johns Hopkins and Mayo.

where do you get this? us news?

after a brief search for "us news", i found where you got that. it is the us news ranking. please remember that us news and world report is just a magazine.

 

[Doctorkill]

where do you get this? us news?

after a brief search for "us news", i found where you got that. it is the us news ranking. please remember that us news and world report is just a magazine.

Also remember that USNWR uses an extensive criteria based on outcomes, research, patient satisfaction, nursing ration, etc... to come up with its listings of best hospitals. The magazine provides the most objective measure of hospital performance available in a concise review. We should not compare this to "People" magazine and their 25 sexiest celebrities, or other such magazine fodder.

Here is a link to the USNWR website explaining their methodology. If there is a better source please pass it along, I would love to hear it.

http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/articles/070715/23meth.htm

I am not that familiar with the UW program, but I do believe that it has a strong reputation. UCLA CHS has a much stronger rep than Harbor, better fellowship opportunities and plenty of exposure to bread and butter medicine in all three years with experiences at Olive View, Harbor, and Simms Mann (part of Venice family clinic) and Santa Monica Hospital. There is a definite reputation for malignancy, but that may be old and no longer deserved. All of the house staff I talked to seemed very enthusiastic about the program, and those that had some concerns (a couple of interns) seemed more worried about patient mix.

All that said, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the three programs!

Good luck to all fellow seniors in the match and congratulations to everybody who early/military matched!!

My List.
UCLA
UCSD
Stanford
UCSF Fresno
UC Davis
Cedars Sinai
USC

 

[Trekkie963]

UCLA medical center is #3 in the nation next to Johns Hopkins and Mayo. UCLA has a great reputation, more so than UW.

Also remember that USNWR uses an extensive criteria based on outcomes, research, patient satisfaction, nursing ration, etc... to come up with its listings of best hospitals. The magazine provides the most objective measure of hospital performance available in a concise review....If there is a better source please pass it along, I would love to hear it.

So I assume that Mayo is the #2 internal medicine residency program in the country?

Not that I don't think there is some value to the USNWR rankings, but I also think it is important to remember that having a good reputation for patient care is not equivalent to having a good reputation for educating residents. Also, a single hospital may have stronger residencies in certain specialties and weaker residencies in others. USNWR does not rank residencies.

 

[CernerDrone]

In all honesty, do you think UW is going to train you better than Mayo or any of these great programs? No, of course not. They're all good and coming out of any of these highly sought after places will result in a competent physician.

It's absolutely ridiculous to be bickering over, does such and such a place give better training over another when the difference is analogous to how many decimal places after pi you're using.

The key is just go where you felt happy or has what you're looking for (facilities, staff, electives). Forget about which program trains you better because telling me someone from Mayo won't be as good an internist as someone from Harbor because there are a lot of private patients is stupid. They'll both be excellent physicians.

 

[orientedtoself]

it is the list of the 17 sexiest hospitals, based on the us news and world report algorithm. and it is just a magazine.

Also remember that USNWR uses an extensive criteria based on outcomes, research, patient satisfaction, nursing ration, etc... to come up with its listings of best hospitals. The magazine provides the most objective measure of hospital performance available in a concise review. We should not compare this to "People" magazine and their 25 sexiest celebrities, or other such magazine fodder.

 

[Doctorkill]

So I assume that Mayo is the #2 internal medicine residency program in the country?

Not that I don't think there is some value to the USNWR rankings, but I also think it is important to remember that having a good reputation for patient care is not equivalent to having a good reputation for educating residents. Also, a single hospital may have stronger residencies in certain specialties and weaker residencies in others. USNWR does not rank residencies.

I never said that the USNWR ranking was for residency training, simply that there was some value and methodology to the ranking.

 

[tv1]

i have also heard ucla is malignant. i have ran into some ucla med students who rotated at the ucla-chs site and said some attendings there are malignant. is this true? .

Not true! I dont know what people mean by "malignant" but everyone involved with UCLA IM are genuinely nice. OUr work hours are totally fine. Attendings are incredibly approachable (sp?)

Maybe the med students work a little harder at CHS? I dont know. All the UCLA med students I worked with were terrific, and they didnt work long hours (we all send them home pretty early i think).

Check out a few of my posts or Yo Mama posts for more info