High ranked Intl Program vs Low Ranked US MD for Neurology

[ccrose]

Hi, I'm a non-US citizen looking at Neurology as a career choice. I currently have a 3.4 GPA (not taken the MCAT yet) and am in a position to get into a well-ranked international MD program. I went to the undergrad in the US at a top 20 liberal arts school--solid EC's, LORs etc. Given that I am not aiming for a very desirable residency program (Neurology) what do you think about picking a better ranked EU medical school and being an IMG vs struggling to get into a low-ranked US school with my credentials??

I know that being a US MD is >>>>>> than a non-citizen IMG, but will the caliber of the medical schools cross things out when being evaluated by residencies? Or is even an unranked US medical MD better than say a UCL MBBS for purposes of matching into a less than desirable speciality? Also, Where would DO fall into this totem polem?

I know there is always the chance that I will change my mind and then be stuck with a speciality where only 19% would do it again if given a chance....

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[gyngyn]

Hi, I'm a non-US citizen looking at Neurology as a career choice. I currently have a 3.4 GPA (not taken the MCAT yet) and am in a position to get into a well-ranked medical school in Ireland. I went to the undergrad in the US at a top 20 liberal arts school--solid EC's, LORs etc. Given that I am not aiming for a very desirable residency program (Neurology) what do you think about picking a better ranked EU medical school and being an IMG vs struggling to get into a low-ranked US school with my credentials??

I know that being a US MD is >>>>>> than a non-citizen IMG, but will the caliber of the medical schools cross things out when being evaluated by residencies? Or is even an unranked US medical MD better than say a UCL MBBS for purposes of matching into a less than desirable speciality? Also, Where would DO fall into this totem polem?

I know there is always the chance that I will change my mind and then be stuck with a speciality where only 19% would do it again if given a chance....

Many of us haven't a clue as to the prestige of foreign medical schools.
In almost any situation in which the goal is to practice in the US, a US school is going to be preferred over any international school.

 

[ccrose]

Many of us haven't a clue as to the prestige of foreign medical schools.
In almost any situation in which the goal is to practice in the US, a US school is going to be preferred over any international school.

Thank you for the response! From your response, it also seems to follow that a US DO program >> highly ranked global MD program, if I am not mistaken.

 

[gyngyn]

Thank you for the response! From your response, it also seems to follow that a US DO program >> highly ranked global MD program, if I am not mistaken.

It would.
You might want to take a look at this thread, too: US citizen IMG medical residency dynamics
It's different from your situation, but the info is good:

 

[gutonc]

Moved to Pre-Med forum where this belongs.

 

[ccrose]

in 2018 335 non US IMGs applied for neurology as their 1st choice and 180 matched which is just 54%.

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Thank you for this info! You know, it actually looks more promising than the chances of actually getting into a US MD program for internationals, which is about 20% and then having an easier match transition, so it's not the scariest. Regardless, I will try my best during the application cycle, and then the rest is up to higher powers

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Thank you for this info! You know, it actually looks more promising than the chances of actually getting into a US MD program for internationals, which is about 20% and then having an easier match transition, so it's not the scariest. Regardless, I will try my best during the application cycle, and then the rest is up to higher powers

I hope I’m misreading this, but it sounds like you’re saying a 54% match rate sounds good.

 

[ccrose]

I hope I’m misreading this, but it sounds like you’re saying a 54% match rate sounds good.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I know that that is a really low number.

I am saying that 180/335= 54% is low, and so is the (roughly) 20% chance of actually GETTING INTO an US MD program as a non-US citizen non-Canadian applicant, and then having security about residency. It's just extremely intimidating at this end of the process, given the fact that you can apply to just a handful of schools in the first place. If you would like to offer any constructive advice, and weren't just taking a dig at my reading/comprehension skills, I am more than happy to listen to any ideas you may have!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

No, that's not what I'm saying. I know that that is a really low number.

I am saying that 180/335= 54% is low, and so is the (roughly) 20% chance of actually GETTING INTO an US MD program as a non-US citizen non-Canadian applicant, and then having security about residency. It's just extremely intimidating at this end of the process, given the fact that you can apply to just a handful of schools in the first place. If you would like to offer any constructive advice, and weren't just taking a dig at my reading/comprehension skills, I am more than happy to listen to any ideas you may have!

Don’t get so defensive. I didn’t want to tell you not to do something that you weren’t planning on doing anyway. If you want to practice here, it’s always better to go to school here. But it seems like you realize that.

 

[ccrose]

Don’t get so defensive. I didn’t want to tell you not to do something that you weren’t planning on doing anyway. If you want to practice here, it’s always better to go to school here. But it seems like you realize that.

No, this is good to hear from as many people as possible! Thank you for sharing

 

[ccrose]

Don’t get so defensive. I didn’t want to tell you not to do something that you weren’t planning on doing anyway. If you want to practice here, it’s always better to go to school here. But it seems like you realize that.

You are right though that that 55% may look better than it is actually is because of the smaller applicant pool, but not sure how that is offset by the caliber of the applicant pool? Regardless, it's still LOW and the general idea that I am getting is that almost any school in the US >>>> great program abroad

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

You are right though that that 55% may look better than it is actually is because of the smaller applicant pool, but not sure how that is offset by the caliber of the applicant pool? Regardless, it's still LOW and the general idea that I am getting is that almost any school in the US >>>> great program abroad

No, I wasn’t saying it’s good. I was saying it’s bad. Much lower than a us med school. Your last sentence is exactly what I was saying. Glad you agree.

 

[sunshinefl]

I hear what you’re saying. But you should definitely TRY for a US medical school admission first, at least.

 

[Doogie.Howser]

Regardless, it's still LOW and the general idea that I am getting is that almost any school in the US >>>> great program abroad

It's not that "almost any school in the US" is better than an abroad program. It's that every school in the US is better for matching. When it comes to landing an interview for residency as a non-US IMG, you're almost three times less likely than a DO. If you were a US IMG, then you'd still have less of a chance of getting an interview compared to a DO. Comparing US IMGs and Non-US IMGs - your chances are cut in more than half. Unfortunately, your chances worsen when it comes to being ranked by a program.

Source: Program Director Survey 2018

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

You are right though that that 55% may look better than it is actually is because of the smaller applicant pool, but not sure how that is offset by the caliber of the applicant pool? Regardless, it's still LOW and the general idea that I am getting is that almost any school in the US >>>> great program abroad

I think it is important here to not assume anything about the true "caliber" of the applicant pool of international students who have made it to graduation. The Step scores for matched/unmatched IMGs is almost identical to that of US med students. I think a common error made on this website is assuming future performance will be above average without accepting that average is the most likely outcome. Don't forget everyone at these schools believes they're the exception to the international student story. Nobody thinks they'll be the one to get 200 on step 1. You are getting the right general idea but I'd like to reinforce that-if you definitely want to practice in the US-you should apply multiple times in the states rather than taking the international school spot.