How much money do YOU expect to make?

Discover Your Odds of Getting into Medical School
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enough to make it rain at da club.
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Dubaifan490 said:
They will look at the salaries of cardiologists and radiologists and then b*tch about how it is contributing to out of control Medicare costs. Once that mental image of the "rich doctor" sets in, they will still think of 150-180K (typical for primary care) as a lot of money and maybe too much.
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Even if we ignore the reality that it is not possible to "hide" our compensation from the public (if someone wants to find out how much they're making and is going to get mad about it--they're going to find out and they are probably going to get mad about it), let's remember that we have the potential and perhaps an obligation to make it clear the amount of training we undertake and how salaries are distributed across the profession.

People complain about the salary of pretty much every high paying salary from athletes and lawyers to businessmen and dentists. Healthcare is a hot topic so we're in the hot seat now. Earlier the bailout and overall economy was the hot topic so businessmen were in the hot seat. Our best tool for fighting this type of mob attack is not to try to be passive and hide our salaries (which doesn't have a chance of working) but to be active and defend their value (if one feels compelled to do either).
 
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Narmerguy said:
Important to remember that the vocal minority that obsessively respond to those CNN and other news articles do not necessarily represent the views of America. Even if someone didn't think doctor's were all greedy and dishonest, who would feel strongly enough about it to argue with someone that does? I don't think all lawyers are crumby and evil but I'd never spend my time debating on an online news article with someone who's convinced they are. Why should I care?
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oh, I agree. haha I offered that up as an example of how unaware people can be when it comes to how much we put into all this.

and @ SexyDoctor-
yeah, haha, years in an ER with the docs and as an EMT and you get an idea of how their lifestyle dictates their income. The job can be an $xxx/hr gig, and when you bust your ass, that can translate to a hell of a lot of $$$
 
Narmerguy said:
Even if we ignore the reality that it is not possible to "hide" our compensation from the public (if someone wants to find out how much they're making and is going to get mad about it--they're going to find out and they are probably going to get mad about it), let's remember that we have the potential and perhaps an obligation to make it clear the amount of training we undertake and how salaries are distributed across the profession.

People complain about the salary of pretty much every high paying salary from athletes and lawyers to businessmen and dentists. Healthcare is a hot topic so we're in the hot seat now. Earlier the bailout and overall economy was the hot topic so businessmen were in the hot seat. Our best tool for fighting this type of mob attack is not to try to be passive and hide our salaries (which doesn't have a chance of working) but to be active and defend their value (if one feels compelled to do either).
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I agree with you about needing to educate people about the cost, length, and intensity of medical school and residency, the risk and the hours of this profession, and the fact that doctors don't make these six-figure incomes until their 30s. People are unaware of the enormous opportunity costs and negative income during med school. We also need to educate Americans about how the number of doctors is controlled. People often make out the AMA to be the villian that limits the number of doctors to keep their incomes high, while we all know that it is the number of residency spots that determines how many doctors we have.

I just think that people who make salaries way above average (for their specialty) should keep it on the DL.
 
SexyDoctor said:
oooohhhhh...
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obama-make-it-rain.gif
 
SexyDoctor said:
Actually he is single, no family, works in a private hospital, head of group, used to moonlight, has many hours :laugh: wow right on it :thumbup:
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At least for EM, the salary is widely variably depending on factors such as location, private/community vs. academics, type of shifts, payer mix, urban/suburban/rurual, acuity of setting, hospital contracts, malpractice environment, benefits package. To whittle everything down to one number is very short sighted.

I've seen numbers as low as 125/hr and as high as 300/hr.
 
I take issue with anyone who can say that X amount is "way too much for any one person to make" or anything of that sort. Really? Why?

Also, this thread needs a poll.

Also, without adding further to the discussion of where reimbursement is going, I don't plan on making any particular amount of money per year, I just hope I am compensated to an extent that I feel is reflective of my future expertise and work. I want to make enough that I don't feel gipped, whether I'm working 55 hours/week as a Pediatrician, or 100 hours/week as a neurosurgeon. This will obviously be dependent on the current economy of the times and the reimbursement rates of other specialties, but I just want to be happy.

As a side note, does everyone really think that the income gap between specialties needs to be greatly shrunk? Why is the income level of certain specialists considered "obscene" just because it's dramatically higher than others? Not every physician-hour is inherently equal in value, at least IMO.
 
Too soon to say. It's a long way off and any expectations will dramatically change with the way things are going right now. What everyone would want though is to be properly compensated, whether that's asking too much or not.
 
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gettheleadout said:
I take issue with anyone who can say that X amount is "way too much for any one person to make" or anything of that sort. Really? Why?

Also, this thread needs a poll.

Also, without adding further to the discussion of where reimbursement is going, I don't plan on making any particular amount of money per year, I just hope I am compensated to an extent that I feel is reflective of my future expertise and work. I want to make enough that I don't feel gipped, whether I'm working 55 hours/week as a Pediatrician, or 100 hours/week as a neurosurgeon. This will obviously be dependent on the current economy of the times and the reimbursement rates of other specialties, but I just want to be happy.

As a side note, does everyone really think that the income gap between specialties needs to be greatly shrunk? Why is the income level of certain specialists considered "obscene" just because it's dramatically higher than others? Not every physician-hour is inherently equal in value, at least IMO.
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The income gap needs to be shrunk to the point that primary care doctors who work full time (40+ hrs/week) will make at least 200K. Most currently make less than that.

And I don't think there are many specialties that are overpaid, because there needs to be reward for making life and death decisions, forgoing a six figure income for several more years than PCPs, and working that many more years in residency/fellowship. Not to mention the extremely long hours in specialties like neurosurgery, general surgery, and cardiology.

And if the Gang of Six plan works well, then Medicare reimbursement will be frozen for the next 10 years.
 
Venom5 said:
I guess 1 million/ year is enough for two ferraris a mansion and three trophy wives... So let's start there
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1 million/yr is enough for two ferraris and a mansion, but three trophy wives....

68zs3q.jpg


In the long run, the car is cheaper...
 
Dubaifan490 said:
My goodness, I sometimes wonder why anesthesia isn't more competitive.
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Because it requires like 10 or so years just to become one. I think you can become a full-time working physician way before then.
 
So how much do doctors really make? I never did any research on the issue, only know that you definitely make enough as a doctor.

Primary care = ?
General Surgeon = ?
Internist = ?
Cardiologist = ?
Radiologist = ?
Anesthesiologist = ?
etc
 
MeowMeowCAT said:
Because it requires like 10 or so years just to become one. I think you can become a full-time working physician way before then.
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:confused:
1 yr internship, 3 years of anesthesia residency.
+/- 1 yr fellowship.

You can be a "full time working physician" in 4 years. SDN darling FP is 3.
I think it's worth the extra year...
 
FattySlug said:
So how much do doctors really make? I never did any research on the issue, only know that you definitely make enough as a doctor.

Primary care = ?
General Surgeon = ?
Internist = ?
Cardiologist = ?
Radiologist = ?
Anesthesiologist = ?
etc
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MGMA 2010 data for "the ROAD"
.....Mean median 25th% 90th%
Rads 515 468 405 780
Optho 376 338 250 631
Anesthesia 419 426 338 571
Derm 437 385 281 744

EM 280 262 225 398

Academics will be closer to the 25% mark, though not always.;)
 
I would be legitimately happy with 120K.
 
NickNaylor said:
Derm - $500k+

gunner.jpg
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That's surprising (unless your joking) cause I kinda imagine you to be that Rad guy lol don't know why.

Edit: I've always been interested in ENT, hopefully if there is a cut I can still make a happy living with it :)
 
I would get a fake family for that...referring to the pic

tttttc said:
1 million/yr is enough for two ferraris and a mansion, but three trophy wives....

68zs3q.jpg


In the long run, the car is cheaper...
Click to expand...
 
I believe I'd make 120K starting after school (family med)if I went into a for-profit organization. But I aspire to work in nonprofit and would see probably 20% less than than that. I don't think it would be a lifelong thing, but it's what I want to do.

I have really little desire to have excess $$ - to be able to get rid of that debt and own my own house debt free, with ability to travel and adventure...what's the $$ doing me after that point?
 
Dubaifan490 said:
Here is an example of the public opinion we face.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/29/980287/-Doctors-should-share-in-the-sacrifice
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Wow. What audacious propaganda. Nowhere in the article does the author mention the crippling debt that medical students acquire. And then he goes on to comparing salaries in Europe -where medical education is 6 years out of high school and free!- to USA and then says "lol american doctors need to make sacrifices".

What's sadder is that the readers seem to be buying it.
 
SU1989 said:
Wow. What audacious propaganda. Nowhere in the article does the author mention the grueling debt that medical students acquire. And then he goes on to comparing salaries in Europe -where medical education is 6 years out of high school and free!- to USA and then says "lol american doctors need to make sacrifices".

What's sadder is that the readers seem to be buying it.
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I wouldn't bother too much about it. It's from the Daily Kos, a "publication" created and run by journalists that are unable to work for any real sort of news company.
 
NickNaylor said:
I wouldn't bother too much about it. It's from the Daily Kos, a "publication" created and run by journalists that are unable to work for any real sort of news company.
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Thanks for the heads up. I thought it was a legit news source for a second.

I can picture it perfectly in my head: Unemployed, grumpy journalist doesn't know how to attract readers' interests, thinks what can be done and figures he should attack physicians in a futile attempt to jump on the healthcare hoopla, and thus remain relevant.

Makes perfect sense now.
 
Like the OP, I would be happy with a 100k salary if I didn't have to incur the 250k med school debt. However, I do not think it is ridiculous that physicians can have 600k salaries considering that some people who are useless to society (ex- pro athletes) can make millions.
 
Dubaifan490 said:
But a few years ago the New York Times had a similar article.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/29/weekinreview/29berenson.html
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That's just a poorly written article. Other than compare salaries between the US and socialized countries - which I think we can all agree doesn't provide any sort of meaningful analysis because of the inherent differences in the systems, especially with respect to how physicians are trained - that article says nothing. It also fails to mention that physician salaries are an EXTREMELY small portion of the overall cost of healthcare.
 
NickNaylor said:
That's just a poorly written article. Other than compare salaries between the US and socialized countries - which I think we can all agree doesn't provide any sort of meaningful analysis because of the inherent differences in the systems, especially with respect to how physicians are trained - that article says nothing. It also fails to mention that physician salaries are an EXTREMELY small portion of the overall cost of healthcare.
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Of course it's poorly written and void of context and real facts, but the masses tend to swallow this propaganda hook, line, and sinker.
 
NickNaylor said:
I.e., people are always panicking and always complaining that the end of times is upon us.
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The end of the golden age is likely upon us. I'll be shocked if radiologists 20 years from now are making the equivalent of $450K on average. If the gap between primary care and specialists is to be narrowed, the ROAD specialties are probably the most obvious choices for cuts.
 
Dubaifan490 said:
The end of the golden age is likely upon us. I'll be shocked if radiologists 20 years from now are making the equivalent of $450K on average. If the gap between primary care and specialists is to be narrowed, the ROAD specialties are probably the most obvious choices for cuts.
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*whoosh*
 
NickNaylor said:
*whoosh*
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Why the "whoosh"? Do you think these 300K+ salaries will be sustained for non-surgical, lifestyle friendly specialties? Radiology may have to deal with outsourcing and automation (though those threats are currently peripheral with a lot of obstacles currently in the way), anesthesiology has the CRNA problem, derm may have DNPs cut into their market, and all three are at risk of reimbursement cuts. One of my HS friends has a father who is an anesthesiologist, who told him that he'll be lucky to make as much money as they currently are making.

As for ophthalmologists, they have already gone through steep cuts and they now mostly make < $300K.
 
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Dubaifan490 said:
Why the "whoosh"? Do you think these 300K+ salaries will be sustained for non-surgical, lifestyle friendly specialties? Radiology may have to deal with outsourcing and automation (though those threats are currently peripheral with a lot of obstacles currently in the way), anesthesiology has the CRNA problem, derm may have DNPs cut into their market, and all three are at risk of reimbursement cuts. One of my HS friends has a father who is an anesthesiologist, who told him that he'll be lucky to make as much money as they currently are making.

As for ophthalmologists, they have already gone through steep cuts and they now mostly make < $300K.
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Probably not.

That said, physicians won't be starving on the street.
 
I dont know but I want a house that's 2mil (in california yeah sorry everything is exp here), a porsche, a ferrari, no kids, no hubbie..and thats about it. whatever will sustain that lifestyle.. oh and a cute wardrobe :)
 
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