I have no chance of getting into med school. What are my options?

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After reading the bolded I honestly can't take anything else you say seriously. Unless you want to site that fact, there's no way any school would consider 20% a "pass". If an MD told you that, then either you misunderstood or he's talking out his ass. To the underlined, the same holds true in the U.S., but that doesn't mean you'll get into the field you want or into a decent program. The same can be said about contacts anywhere though. If you know the right people you can be pretty mediocre and still get to where you want to go. Fortunately, at the residency level that's not true 99% of the time and you still have to be a decent candidate to get into a strong program even with that contact. You're acting like knowing someone can get you whatever you want and that this occurs frequently in Canada. I'd be willing to be it's far less common than you think, and if it is common then Canada has a far more corrupt medical system than I would have ever expected.



I'll re-emphasize this because too many people are still acting like OP actually has a chance at getting into med school. Her best option is to forget med school for the next 10-12 years, grow up, and do something productive with her life. She'd essentially have to re-take college to have enough grade-replacement to have a decent GPA, and every med school would question why she spent 7-8 years getting a bachelor's/post-bacc degree. In other words, she wouldn't get in even with the grade replacement.

OP needs to move on and find some other way to live a fulfilling life. If she still has a burning passion to be a pediatrician in a decade, then she can go back to school and start from scratch. Any further effort to get into med school at this point though would be a waste of her time and her parents' money.
That is your choice. There are current and former canadian md students here and they can give you a better picture but I have researched a lot into canadian med schools I'm ontario and have spoken to many canadian graduates. In Canada you don't get anywhere without a network in the field. If you know better than me on canadian schools please correct me, but when you haven't seen how the Canadian system works don't say something in ignorance.http://

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Weird, jokes are usually supposed to be funny. Somehow I imagine you making "jokes" like this on the regular to girls in person.
Never knew you took that so personal. My apologies. I mean this is an anonymous forum site where I can say anything unless it violates the TOS. I found what I said to be funny, you don't have to agree with me.
 
Never knew you took that so personal. My apologies. I mean this is an anonymous forum site where I can say anything unless it violates the TOS. I found what I said to be funny, you don't have to agree with me.

Nah you're right. Being anonymous totally gives you the green light to act creepy. My bad.
 
Not sure how the Canada stuff came up, but I'm going to weigh in anyway. @Kevin47 you've either been misinformed or have misinterpreted what people have told you. The only way that med school can be seen as a "joy ride" in Canada is that schools are extremely supportive, and if you start to struggle they'll pull out all the stops (tutors, mentors, counsellors) to help you get back on track. From what I've heard US schools tend to be that way as well, as both countries have extremely low attrition rates. Whoever told you that at Western you're fine if you're getting 20% was probably using hyperbole or making a joke that you didn't get. Courses being P/F doesn't mean that med school becomes a joke.

Residents are allowed to unionize in Canada, so (at least in Ontario) their mandatory hours are slightly less than in the US, but ultra-competitive residencies like ortho expect residents to voluntarily spend that extra time at the hospital anyway so they're no less intense. Getting into a competitive residency is just as hard as well. Maybe you ran in to someone who complained that their spot was taken by someone less qualified because they "knew someone", but that doesn't mean that that's how things are done in Canada. You land a competitive residency by impressing during your rotations and getting great evals. Getting along with staff can only help your chances, but it doesn't replace the tremendous amount of work that goes into pursuing a competitive specialty. You want ENT? Better start doing research in your first year.

And about the malpractice thing, just because you witnessed some cases doesn't mean that Canadian hospitals are death traps filled with incompetent residents who are only there because they networked. Malpractice insurance is actually much less in Canada, mainly because Canadians are significantly less litigious than Americans. You can rest assured, though, that if idiot residents were killing people because they went to a P/F med school, that would swiftly change.

@Stagg737
 
Not sure how the Canada stuff came up, but I'm going to weigh in anyway. @Kevin47 you've either been misinformed or have misinterpreted what people have told you. The only way that med school can be seen as a "joy ride" in Canada is that schools are extremely supportive, and if you start to struggle they'll pull out all the stops (tutors, mentors, counsellors) to help you get back on track. From what I've heard US schools tend to be that way as well, as both countries have extremely low attrition rates. Whoever told you that at Western you're fine if you're getting 20% was probably using hyperbole or making a joke that you didn't get. Courses being P/F doesn't mean that med school becomes a joke.

Residents are allowed to unionize in Canada, so (at least in Ontario) their mandatory hours are slightly less than in the US, but ultra-competitive residencies like ortho expect residents to voluntarily spend that extra time at the hospital anyway so they're no less intense. Getting into a competitive residency is just as hard as well. Maybe you ran in to someone who complained that their spot was taken by someone less qualified because they "knew someone", but that doesn't mean that that's how things are done in Canada. You land a competitive residency by impressing during your rotations and getting great evals. Getting along with staff can only help your chances, but it doesn't replace the tremendous amount of work that goes into pursuing a competitive specialty. You want ENT? Better start doing research in your first year.

And about the malpractice thing, just because you witnessed some cases doesn't mean that Canadian hospitals are death traps filled with incompetent residents who are only there because they networked. Malpractice insurance is actually much less in Canada, mainly because Canadians are significantly less litigious than Americans. You can rest assured, though, that if idiot residents were killing people because they went to a P/F med school, that would swiftly change.

@Stagg737
Thanks. I was going by second hand accounts and articles I had read about canadian health care. As well as my time in the hospital here, which is a terrible reprisentation of Canadian hospitals. I know canadian schools are very supportive but I don't know how. From what the student said it seemed that all they cared about was getting you to graduate.

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Thanks. I was going by second hand accounts and articles I had read about canadian health care. As well as my time in the hospital here, which is a terrible reprisentation of Canadian hospitals. I know canadian schools are very supportive but I don't know how. From what the student said it seemed that all they cared about was getting you to graduate.

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Well they definitely want all their students to graduate. But not in a "we don't care how incompetent you are" way, it's in a "we only accept A students and know you can handle this so whatever is holding you back we can help you rectify" way.
 
OP: Could you still get in? It would have to take a 180' personality change, super-human dedication, and a lot of time/money to do it. Given your background, you don't have the self-discipline to make this happen. You may never have it. It doesn't make you a bad person, but it does mean that medicine probably isn't for you. Find something you're passionate about and focus on that - it may help you build the self-discipline and self-confidence you'll need to be successful in life.
 
Not sure how the Canada stuff came up, but I'm going to weigh in anyway. @Kevin47 you've either been misinformed or have misinterpreted what people have told you. The only way that med school can be seen as a "joy ride" in Canada is that schools are extremely supportive, and if you start to struggle they'll pull out all the stops (tutors, mentors, counsellors) to help you get back on track. From what I've heard US schools tend to be that way as well, as both countries have extremely low attrition rates. Whoever told you that at Western you're fine if you're getting 20% was probably using hyperbole or making a joke that you didn't get. Courses being P/F doesn't mean that med school becomes a joke.

Residents are allowed to unionize in Canada, so (at least in Ontario) their mandatory hours are slightly less than in the US, but ultra-competitive residencies like ortho expect residents to voluntarily spend that extra time at the hospital anyway so they're no less intense. Getting into a competitive residency is just as hard as well. Maybe you ran in to someone who complained that their spot was taken by someone less qualified because they "knew someone", but that doesn't mean that that's how things are done in Canada. You land a competitive residency by impressing during your rotations and getting great evals. Getting along with staff can only help your chances, but it doesn't replace the tremendous amount of work that goes into pursuing a competitive specialty. You want ENT? Better start doing research in your first year.

And about the malpractice thing, just because you witnessed some cases doesn't mean that Canadian hospitals are death traps filled with incompetent residents who are only there because they networked. Malpractice insurance is actually much less in Canada, mainly because Canadians are significantly less litigious than Americans. You can rest assured, though, that if idiot residents were killing people because they went to a P/F med school, that would swiftly change.

Thanks for the response, this is what I assumed the med process in Canada was and what I've heard it's like from Canadian classmates who have MS friends back home. @Kevin47 , the bold is essentially what I was trying to get at. I'm not saying that networking doesn't help or that it doesn't matter. The point I was making was that networking alone very rarely does anything for med students or residents and that it's just skill among many that is involved in getting into a residency or job. A student could know the Prime Minister and still not get a spot if he doesn't know how to take an HPI.

Thanks. I was going by second hand accounts and articles I had read about canadian health care. As well as my time in the hospital here, which is a terrible reprisentation of Canadian hospitals. I know canadian schools are very supportive but I don't know how. From what the student said it seemed that all they cared about was getting you to graduate.

Again, it's not all they care about, but attrition rates are something that is looked at seriously. Accepting 100 students and then having 20 fail out before graduating reflects extremely poorly on a medical school. It's part of why there's so much negativity surrounding the Caribbean schools. Med schools worth attending will only accept students they actually believe will end up being competent physicians. Since they're confident in their students, it makes sense that they'd create a supportive system that will give their students as many resources as they can to be successful.
 
"I also got pregnant twice because of these habits"

Obvious troll lol
 
"I also got pregnant twice because of these habits" Obvious troll lol

Ah, don't be too sure. When I first read it I had to reread it again because I thought it might be some @#$ who stalked me in RL, trolling me here. Then I saw NY and realized this is not me, nor are the drugs use. But the rest of it?

VERY close to my life........ sans the MCAT score and application to Carib (neither of which apply to me).... right to the GPA....... which was 30 years ago.

IF OP is not trolling, I would say only this:

1. Grow up
2. Get a job
3. Work a very long time while doing #1
4. Volunteer a crap-ton because you SHOULD, not because it's a check box on the application
5. Shadow a few docs to see if you really can handle the real interactions with patients.
6. Decide if this really is your path while doing #1 - 3
7. After maybe 10 - 15 years, retake EVERY pre-req course and get A's
8. Take the MCAT
9. Apply - like I said, about 10 - 15 years from now
10. If you don't get in, continue to volunteer because you SHOULD

Good Luck!
 
I feel comfortable saying this is a trollpost for a lot of the things mentioned in the narrative.

If they are not a troll, well, then basically they've had a few doctors and some admin essentially come in and say, forget medicine.

If I'm calling them a troll, it's because their narrative contains such fantastically bad elements for a future physician that they're getting laughed out of here at the thought. This is either going to teach this person, galvanize them, or they'll move on to a more realistic career option.

Yeah, reinvention is great, and I get people make mistakes when they're young.

But reality is that there are a ton of applicants with way better reasons to have ****ed up this bad.

I don't buy into "oh you lied once, you cheated on a test once," you can never be redeemed and have **** character and character can never be changed forever.
The way that they have lied and stolen from family, and this level of **** up due to boy chasing, well, not everyone's cut out to be a doc. Serious questions about this person's judgement and character, even for being a young adult.
 
But reality is that there are a ton of applicants with way better reasons to have ****ed up this bad.... and this level of **** up due to boy chasing, well, not everyone's cut out to be a doc. Serious questions about this person's judgement and character, even for being a young adult.

Hope you're not one of the people reviewing my application...
 
If you have a 2.11 GPA, a history of deceit and poor decision making, and a sub-500 MCAT, it probably doesn't matter who is looking at your app.
She was asking for help on the forum with people who immediately called her a troll. I don't know if she was or is not but the part about poor decision making and etc etc etc got to me.

I AM the parent of two kids, different fathers; one child is dead, the other is mid-20s. I did make very poor choices and chased boys... good Lord, having been beaten all my life it was nice to get attention from someone... and then I grew up.

To me, that post hit home. As I said, it felt like someone took MY life and trolled ME changing just enough of the details to see if they could draw me out. IF that was the case, good job.

I did not get a sub-500 MCAT nor did I apply Carib but I did get a sub-500 diagnostic MCAT and have friend who went Carib. That is all public knowledge - on here, reddit, and my blog.

I never cheated my parents nor cheated any school but I did have many things erased off my transcript (due to dead child). And my GPA is 2.196 from 1986. It does feel like someone taking my life to try and tell me indirectly by having all of you blast me ... yeah, I know it's twisted. But if it is the case, I know who it is and they are, indeed, very very warped.

What gives SDN such a bad rap is when someone comes here, openly admits to @#$ty choices, and then gets repeatedly reamed for those choices. Compassion chips still exist and it'd be nice if some of you would engage them.
 
Listen here little baby. You're gonna get a lot of hurtful and degrading comments, but that ain't what I'm about. Let me just say, you are perfect the way you are. You hear me sugar? PERFECT. Don't ever change. You deserve anything and everything you want. Stay safe for me, baby girl.

This is my face thinking of you hurting.

anigif_enhanced-buzz-14631-1362379470-3.gif

150% love this guy. I've seen this same post pop up at unexpected times and it makes me laugh hysterically every time. :claps:
 
If you have a 2.11 GPA, a history of deceit and poor decision making, and a sub-500 MCAT, it probably doesn't matter who is looking at your app.
Depends on how long since all that occurred... and I'm still glad you're not reviewing my app... or going to be in my class... or be my doc.
 
Depends on how long since all that occurred... and I'm still glad you're not reviewing my app... or going to be in my class... or be my doc.

From your anecdote, you seem like someone who has their **** together. That's perfectly fine, and what adcoms look for. OP on the other hand hits every red flag.
 
OP needs strangers to tell her; " lying to and stealing from your Dad is wrong". She is either lying to us, or herself. She is a troll either way.

She was asking for help on the forum with people who immediately called her a troll. I don't know if she was or is not but the part about poor decision making and etc etc etc got to me.

I AM the parent of two kids, different fathers; one child is dead, the other is mid-20s. I did make very poor choices and chased boys... good Lord, having been beaten all my life it was nice to get attention from someone... and then I grew up.

To me, that post hit home. As I said, it felt like someone took MY life and trolled ME changing just enough of the details to see if they could draw me out. IF that was the case, good job.

I did not get a sub-500 MCAT nor did I apply Carib but I did get a sub-500 diagnostic MCAT and have friend who went Carib. That is all public knowledge - on here, reddit, and my blog.

I never cheated my parents nor cheated any school but I did have many things erased off my transcript (due to dead child). And my GPA is 2.196 from 1986. It does feel like someone taking my life to try and tell me indirectly by having all of you blast me ... yeah, I know it's twisted. But if it is the case, I know who it is and they are, indeed, very very warped.

What gives SDN such a bad rap is when someone comes here, openly admits to @#$ty choices, and then gets repeatedly reamed for those choices. Compassion chips still exist and it'd be nice if some of you would engage them.
 
Good God, people. Ever think the reason she hasn't come back is because y'all keep berating her? All she wanted was some honest advice and guidance. Calling her a troll, whether she is or not, is completely unnecessary and goes against the whole purpose of SDN. Yes, her chances of acceptance at this moment in time is close to 0, but no one needs to be telling her she can never be a doctor or that she's a lost cause. It might take 5, 10, 15 years for her to get her **** together, but if she really wants it, there are ways for her to go to medical school. There is always a way.
 
If she got pregnant twice in 4 years then I suggest first an intro to anatomy course and a sexual education course preferably one involving safe sex before we move on to the metacarpals and what not in medical school.
 
She was asking for help on the forum with people who immediately called her a troll. I don't know if she was or is not but the part about poor decision making and etc etc etc got to me.

I never said she was a troll. I simply said med school might not be for her if she can't hack it in the pre-reqs, and it'd be better for her to figure this out now rather than several years and thousands of dollars from now.

I AM the parent of two kids, different fathers; one child is dead, the other is mid-20s. I did make very poor choices and chased boys... good Lord, having been beaten all my life it was nice to get attention from someone... and then I grew up.

To me, that post hit home. As I said, it felt like someone took MY life and trolled ME changing just enough of the details to see if they could draw me out. IF that was the case, good job.

Sorry that your life has been rough, but this isn't about you. It also isn't a judgement on her choices (at least my posts weren't). But cheating and lying to her parents while continuing to make poor decisions is not a good indication of maturity.

I did not get a sub-500 MCAT nor did I apply Carib but I did get a sub-500 diagnostic MCAT and have friend who went Carib. That is all public knowledge - on here, reddit, and my blog.

I never cheated my parents nor cheated any school but I did have many things erased off my transcript (due to dead child). And my GPA is 2.196 from 1986. It does feel like someone taking my life to try and tell me indirectly by having all of you blast me ... yeah, I know it's twisted. But if it is the case, I know who it is and they are, indeed, very very warped.

That was 30 years ago. Not yesterday. Big difference.

What gives SDN such a bad rap is when someone comes here, openly admits to @#$ty choices, and then gets repeatedly reamed for those choices. Compassion chips still exist and it'd be nice if some of you would engage them.

Assuming that was not directed at me, so I won't really respond other than to say that there is a difference between belittling someone and giving a dose of reality. The latter is necessary, the former is not.
 
Depends on how long since all that occurred... and I'm still glad you're not reviewing my app... or going to be in my class... or be my doc.

No offense, but this isn't a very realistic view. You essentially want people to simply tell her that hard work and wishing will make her dreams come true. It isn't the doctor's job to always be rainbows and unicorns. Sometimes bad news has to be given. I wouldn't want a doctor who was afraid to tell me the truth.

That said, your abysmal GPA from 1984 is not the same as an abysmal GPA from yesterday. If you put considerable time between your terrible GPA and your app, getting excellent grades in the meantime, you might have a shot. But is it worth that if you obviously struggle with undergraduate, intro science courses?
 
That said, your abysmal GPA from 1984 is not the same as an abysmal GPA from yesterday.
Did you read what I wrote?

10 - 15 years later - she should apply... did you read that? or just jump to an erroneous conclusion?

That was 30 years ago. Not yesterday. Big difference.
Need to learn to read what I write. I'm generally pretty clear about my intention and my thoughts. did you mistake what I wrote for telling her the world is glorious and the sky is always blue and that she should immediately apply and retake the MCAT? or did you really read it?

IF OP is not trolling, I would say only this:

1. Grow up
2. Get a job
3. Work a very long time while doing #1
4. Volunteer a crap-ton because you SHOULD, not because it's a check box on the application
5. Shadow a few docs to see if you really can handle the real interactions with patients.
6. Decide if this really is your path while doing #1 - 3
7. After maybe 10 - 15 years, retake EVERY pre-req course and get A's
8. Take the MCAT
9. Apply - like I said, about 10 - 15 years from now
10. If you don't get in, continue to volunteer because you SHOULD

Good Luck!

Just in case you missed it.
 
Did you read what I wrote?

10 - 15 years later - she should apply... did you read that? or just jump to an erroneous conclusion?


Need to learn to read what I write. I'm generally pretty clear about my intention and my thoughts. did you mistake what I wrote for telling her the world is glorious and the sky is always blue and that she should immediately apply and retake the MCAT? or did you really read it?

Uh, no. I was agreeing with you on that part and simply adding that I don't necessarily think that it's worth it for her. The unicorns and rainbows comment was regarding your replies to those of us who told her to move on. You may be clear with your thoughts, but you seem to be quick to infer things. I think you might be a tad bit defensive.
 
I think you might be a tad bit defensive.
Yes, because I think calling her a slut and worse because she had two kids in college hit home. I DID that.

I think any of you who jump to the conclusions that misguided choices of a young person - none of the choices are illegal - are reason to flay them openly in a forum where they were asking for help is wrong.

How will YOU judge a patient in a similar situation? What if YOU have a patient with two kids, different fathers, poor, WHITE, and then maybe trans. Are YOU going to judge that person? How are YOU going to treat them with that condescending, judgmental attitude?
 
If she got pregnant twice in 4 years then I suggest first an intro to anatomy course and a sexual education course preferably one involving safe sex before we move on to the metacarpals and what not in medical school.
Alright bruh, that's enough. At least other people's bluntness was useful advice, while you're just being cruel for the lols and upvotes.
 
She was asking for help on the forum with people who immediately called her a troll. I don't know if she was or is not but the part about poor decision making and etc etc etc got to me.

I AM the parent of two kids, different fathers; one child is dead, the other is mid-20s. I did make very poor choices and chased boys... good Lord, having been beaten all my life it was nice to get attention from someone... and then I grew up.

To me, that post hit home. As I said, it felt like someone took MY life and trolled ME changing just enough of the details to see if they could draw me out. IF that was the case, good job.

I did not get a sub-500 MCAT nor did I apply Carib but I did get a sub-500 diagnostic MCAT and have friend who went Carib. That is all public knowledge - on here, reddit, and my blog.

I never cheated my parents nor cheated any school but I did have many things erased off my transcript (due to dead child). And my GPA is 2.196 from 1986. It does feel like someone taking my life to try and tell me indirectly by having all of you blast me ... yeah, I know it's twisted. But if it is the case, I know who it is and they are, indeed, very very warped.

What gives SDN such a bad rap is when someone comes here, openly admits to @#$ty choices, and then gets repeatedly reamed for those choices. Compassion chips still exist and it'd be nice if some of you would engage them.

You take yourself too seriously.

Its genuinely good that you've gone through what you did and got to where you are. Its also very rare that you have the compassion left to take OP seriously.

We are not asking for your personal history. Her file (when and if she matures) will still raise red flags and rightly so.

Going ad hominem attacks on people who you wouldn't want to be reviewing your file or working with as a colleague is quite immature of you for someone who holds themselves in such high regard. Especially after what you've been through.
 
Mods should just close this thread.

Guys, for what it's worth, I agree with @Ad2b. OP made some stupid decisions, some really stupid decisions, but guess what? So have we all. Maybe not the same ones, maybe different ones. And I agree, the pattern of OP's behavior is not promising so far. But people can and do change. It just requires a greater investment of hard work and more time to right the overturned train.

The responses here have, sadly, progressed from blunt and somewhat informative to plain, ugly bullying. You want to talk about stupid decisions? How about the decision to cyber bully someone into oblivion? It's not compassionate behavior. It's not behavior that is becoming of future physicians.
 
Yes, because I think calling her a slut and worse because she had two kids in college hit home. I DID that.

I think any of you who jump to the conclusions that misguided choices of a young person - none of the choices are illegal - are reason to flay them openly in a forum where they were asking for help is wrong.

How will YOU judge a patient in a similar situation? What if YOU have a patient with two kids, different fathers, poor, WHITE, and then maybe trans. Are YOU going to judge that person? How are YOU going to treat them with that condescending, judgmental attitude?

I think you need to calm down. You're projecting a general negative feeling onto one of the few people who did not judge her or call her names. I told her that she should probably look for a different career. That was it. And it is sound advice. If she chooses to ignore it, that's fine and her choice. And I wish her luck.

Cheating and lying to your parents isn't illegal, but it is wrong and immature. That needs to change, and she needs to grow up. Being promiscuous isn't something I judge anyone for, but it is a risky behavior.

I have been in medicine for 8 years. I have treated criminals, murderers, women getting abortions, drunk people doing stupid stuff, people getting cosmetic surgery, trans patients getting pieces of reassignment surgery, and your run of the mill average joes and janes. You picked the wrong person to focus your hatred on, my friend.
 
pointless :smack:. Bye

I thought it was pretty funny and obviously a joke.

It would have been creepy if you said "What uni did you go to?" It was obviously a joke and he's the only one that took at as seriously as he did...
 
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