IA... should I give up?

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nutellalicker

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To those who get angry from reading this, I am sorry. Firstly, I deeply regret my actions. I think about my poor decision every day. However, I don't want to give up my dream of medical school. Currently I am enrolled in a 6 year pharmacy program. Is it worth it to pursue medical school afterwards, or drop out right now and become premed? I am not afraid of hard work, but I want to know if redemption is possible, and what steps I might take towards that?

My violation was this: right before college started i wanted to go somewhere cool. I thought taking a summer class at a university in a big city might be a nice opportunity to get ahead on my coursework and practice making friends in a new environment. On the final exam for the class, I was about to turn it in when the professor left the room. There was one small mc question I really had no idea for, so I looked it up on my phone quickly then wrote down the answer. I am still in shock sometimes why I did this. Typing it out now makes me feel so stupid. When the professor confronted me it was clear someone turned me in, as the nature of his accusation was inaccurate. However, I didn't want to deny as I felt so guilty I made myself completely transparent and admitted to cheating. Result was a grade reduction from A to C, with no mark on transcript. Academic office has record of the incident. Although it was at a separate university from my current one and there is no transcript record, I intend on reporting the incident if I apply to medical school as I want to take this opportunity to become an honest student again. Am I screwed? I am open to all suggestions, DO, Caribbean, and just straight up quitting, anything. I just finished my first year in school with 3.8 GPA, over 600 hours employment in doctor's office as medical assistant, pharmacy school newspaper editor, and currently employed as pharm tech and working in lab research over the summer. Any response, advice, or even negative comments would be appreciated 🙁
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You made a mistake when you were young, and as long as you're honest/transparent about what you did and show genuine remorse, I don't believe it means you have 0% chance of getting into medical school. Just make sure you address it in your application.

Where you apply may depend on what was your GPA in college was and your score on the MCAT?

I've had multiple friends apply to medical school 1 year into graduate programs anything from MPH to PHD. It's your life, so you should do what you feel is right for you. Understand though, there's no guarantee you'll get in the first time you apply to medical school, so honestly, I would not drop out of the pharmacy program as I applied for med school.
 
I can't sugar coat this; you'd be DOA at my school right now. Not just for cheating, but for being so stupid as to cheat with your phone during an exam with witnesses over something so freaking trivial as a single MC answer.

Your medical career is in stasis.

Lead an exemplary life, preferably engaging in positions of responsibility and apply some five + years from now.

Ans always have a Plan B.
 
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Let's be realistic for a second. Not that I'm taking a position either way - but maybe ask yourself why you would report this if it will never be revealed to the adcom. Do you think people with "sealed/purged" criminal records are reporting that to the schools? Hell no they're not, because apparently only a federal background check can disclose that information. Lying is lying of course, but we're talking about non-disclosure of minor information that otherwise would bury your career aspirations.
 
Tim_Hortons_Cafe said:
You made a mistake when you were young, and as long as you're honest/transparent about what you did and show genuine remorse, I don't believe it means you have 0% chance of getting into medical school. Just make sure you address it in your application.

Where you apply may depend on what was your GPA in college was and your score on the MCAT?

I've had multiple friends apply to medical school 1 year into graduate programs anything from MPH to PHD. It's your life, so you should do what you feel is right for you. Understand though, there's no guarantee you'll get in the first time you apply to medical school, so honestly, I would not drop out of the pharmacy program as I applied for med school.
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I am beginning my second year of college now. My program is 2 years undergrad then admittance into the graduate pharmacy school. Thank you for your response though.
 
Goro said:
I can't sugar coat this; you'd be DOA at my school right now. Not just for cheating, but for being so stupid as to cheat with your phone during an exam with witnesses over something so freaking trivial as a single MC answer.

Your medical career is in stasis.

Lead an exemplary life, preferably engaging in positions of responsibility and apply some five + years from now.

Ans always have a Plan B.
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Damn but thanks for your honesty. If I finish my program it will have been 6 years from the incident, which also happened before going to college so hopefully that may lighten the severity. Thank you for your advice
 
sab3156 said:
Let's be realistic for a second. Not that I'm taking a position either way - but maybe ask yourself why you would report this if it will never be revealed to the adcom. Do you think people with "sealed/purged" criminal records are reporting that to the schools? Hell no they're not, because apparently only a federal background check can disclose that information. Lying is lying of course, but we're talking about non-disclosure of minor information that otherwise would bury your career aspirations.
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I believe medical schools can contact the academic office and obtain a record of it. Even though it might go unnoticed, I don't want to take the chance and like to think I took a lesson and am trying to be an honest person from now on.
 
nutellalicker said:
To those who get angry from reading this, I am sorry. Firstly, I deeply regret my actions. I think about my poor decision every day. However, I don't want to give up my dream of medical school. Currently I am enrolled in a 6 year pharmacy program. Is it worth it to pursue medical school afterwards, or drop out right now and become premed? I am not afraid of hard work, but I want to know if redemption is possible, and what steps I might take towards that?

My violation was this: right before college started i wanted to go somewhere cool. I thought taking a summer class at a university in a big city might be a nice opportunity to get ahead on my coursework and practice making friends in a new environment. On the final exam for the class, I was about to turn it in when the professor left the room. There was one small mc question I really had no idea for, so I looked it up on my phone quickly then wrote down the answer. I am still in shock sometimes why I did this. Typing it out now makes me feel so stupid. When the professor confronted me it was clear someone turned me in, as the nature of his accusation was inaccurate. However, I didn't want to deny as I felt so guilty I made myself completely transparent and admitted to cheating. Result was a grade reduction from A to C, with no mark on transcript. Academic office has record of the incident. Although it was at a separate university from my current one and there is no transcript record, I intend on reporting the incident if I apply to medical school as I want to take this opportunity to become an honest student again. Am I screwed? I am open to all suggestions, DO, Caribbean, and just straight up quitting, anything. I just finished my first year in school with 3.8 GPA, over 600 hours employment in doctor's office as medical assistant, pharmacy school newspaper editor, and currently employed as pharm tech and working in lab research over the summer. Any response, advice, or even negative comments would be appreciated 🙁
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If I was reviewing your app on the admissions committee and I saw that you cheated in this manner, there definitely is a certain value in you being transparent and honest about it, but that does not override the fact that you actually did it. At our school, even if you won a Nobel Prize, your app would get tossed... however, if I saw an application with a high GPA like you have, and strong ECs like you have, you'd have a shot at getting an interview if I wasn't aware of the cheating incident.

If it was my call, I would never mislead the adcom or withhold this information, but ultimately, it's your call. If you decide to be transparent about it, you're 99% going to get rejected if you apply within the next few years. If you don't mention it, you're lying and it's not a great way to start your medical career, but if you truly regret it (sounds like you do), and if you have learned from it and know it will not happen again, withholding the information isn't a bad idea. From a cost-benefit perspective, lying about it is the play... you have a much larger upside if you do and stand to gain a lot... and you don't have much to lose... again I don't condone lying to the adcom, this is a very gray area since you're technically not lying... some secondaries ask if you've been the subject of academic investigation etc, if you are asked that, I would be honest, if you're not, you don't have an obligation to report it
 
well that sucks. yes you should give up

EDIT: and it's "IA", not "AI"
 
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nutellalicker said:
I believe medical schools can contact the academic office and obtain a record of it. Even though it might go unnoticed, I don't want to take the chance and like to think I took a lesson and am trying to be an honest person from now on.
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Do you really think schools will be doing this? And just for you (randomly?) or for everyone who is applying to their school? Come on, they don't have that kind of time or man-power. You're likely not going to get into medical school if you reported this. If you have learned from this experience, you can just leave it in the past and move on - never speak of it again to anybody in medical school.
 
I’d rethink your plan very carefully. Why are you in a pharmacy program and switching to medicine? That’s six years of school (and debt) on top of medical school.

I’m a pharmacist who pursued medical school after completing a 6 year pharmacy program and it was the number one thing asked during my interview. Oh, and my transcript. Since 6 year programs are not the norm, your transcript can be confusing to some folks who interview you (undergrad gpa 2 years plus grad gpa 4 years). I spent more time explaining my transcript and “why not pharmacy” (and why not pursue a pharmacy residency) than I would have liked. Instead of talking about positive experiences I had in my application, I often was challenged to defend why medical school and not just continue as a clinical pharmacist. Being a pharmacist does not give you a leg up on applying to medical school (it doesn't hurt, either, but it's extra schooling and debt you do not need).

Since you also have an institutional action against you, you will have to spend even more time explaining this IA plus your 6 year program plus why not a pharmacy residency (it is a clinical career, after all, that is challenging— why not do that instead of becoming a MD?). I think you could make it work but it’ll be an uphill battle.

Honestly, I would not have continued pharmacy school if I found out earlier that it was not the career for me (but you have your own reasons).
 
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sab3156 said:
Do you really think schools will be doing this? And just for you (randomly?) or for everyone who is applying to their school? Come on, they don't have that kind of time or man-power. You're likely not going to get into medical school if you reported this. If you have learned from this experience, you can just leave it in the past and move on - never speak of it again to anybody in medical school.
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Med schools check on all acceptees. That's simply doing due diligence.

Never, ever think that "they dont' time for that". That's a pre-med delusion.
 
sab3156 said:
Do you really think schools will be doing this? And just for you (randomly?) or for everyone who is applying to their school? Come on, they don't have that kind of time or man-power. You're likely not going to get into medical school if you reported this. If you have learned from this experience, you can just leave it in the past and move on - never speak of it again to anybody in medical school.
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The OP is talking about redemption after lying to get ahead. What the @$!# is wrong with you that you would even suggest a bigger lie to cover up the first one? The first lie put his future in question; a second one would end it completely. Furthermore, those of us with a moral compass recognize that lying is wrong even if we don't get caught. For you to even suggest that course of action is incredibly malicious.
 
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nutellalicker said:
Damn but thanks for your honesty. If I finish my program it will have been 6 years from the incident, which also happened before going to college so hopefully that may lighten the severity. Thank you for your advice
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1. You were taking a college class at a college. It didn't happen before going to college. It happened while you were in college.
2. Why are you in pharmacy school if you are going to medical school? Generally its a bad idea to do vocational training for something you don't plan on going into.
3. With an IA, the rest of your application needs to be exemplary. You gave schools a reason to easily throw out your application, now you need to figure out how to force them to consider you.
 
I understand that academic dishonesty is a huge red flag but I'm still surprised at the severity of some of these answers. It sounds like the OP was punished for their actions and paid the price. We make mistakes but we shouldn't dwell on them if we've moved on and changed. The OP has had a lot of redeeming experiences since then and sounds like an excellent candidate for med school. We all have to come to grips with our mistakes big or small. I think the OP should feel good about whichever decision.
 
I don't see the big deal. You did it on one question. It was early in your college career when you were prob 17/18. If I was on the admission, it would be a non event.

Why someone would turn you in for that is pretty petty. Seems pretty petty for the professor to give you a C. If it was me, I would make you run a few laps. Scare the crap out of you by telling you that you just failed the class. And send you on your way with your A.
 
nutellalicker said:
To those who get angry from reading this, I am sorry. Firstly, I deeply regret my actions. I think about my poor decision every day. However, I don't want to give up my dream of medical school. Currently I am enrolled in a 6 year pharmacy program. Is it worth it to pursue medical school afterwards, or drop out right now and become premed? I am not afraid of hard work, but I want to know if redemption is possible, and what steps I might take towards that?

My violation was this: right before college started i wanted to go somewhere cool. I thought taking a summer class at a university in a big city might be a nice opportunity to get ahead on my coursework and practice making friends in a new environment. On the final exam for the class, I was about to turn it in when the professor left the room. There was one small mc question I really had no idea for, so I looked it up on my phone quickly then wrote down the answer. I am still in shock sometimes why I did this. Typing it out now makes me feel so stupid. When the professor confronted me it was clear someone turned me in, as the nature of his accusation was inaccurate. However, I didn't want to deny as I felt so guilty I made myself completely transparent and admitted to cheating. Result was a grade reduction from A to C, with no mark on transcript. Academic office has record of the incident. Although it was at a separate university from my current one and there is no transcript record, I intend on reporting the incident if I apply to medical school as I want to take this opportunity to become an honest student again. Am I screwed? I am open to all suggestions, DO, Caribbean, and just straight up quitting, anything. I just finished my first year in school with 3.8 GPA, over 600 hours employment in doctor's office as medical assistant, pharmacy school newspaper editor, and currently employed as pharm tech and working in lab research over the summer. Any response, advice, or even negative comments would be appreciated 🙁
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You should concentrate on doing well in classes and finishing the Pharm degree without cheating/failing out.
Once you get that PharmD and if you still want to become an MD/DO at that point then you can take the MCAT and head on to Meds school.
Otherwise, these days, you can do a residency after the PharmD and can work in Hospitals as a clinical pharmacist, working with other healthcare professionals while making a fine salary, so it is not all gloom and sad this route either.
 
Goro said:
I can't sugar coat this; you'd be DOA at my school right now. Not just for cheating, but for being so stupid as to cheat with your phone during an exam with witnesses over something so freaking trivial as a single MC answer.

Your medical career is in stasis.

Lead an exemplary life, preferably engaging in positions of responsibility and apply some five + years from now.

Ans always have a Plan B.
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He's first year in a six year pharmacy program. While I agree the actions at hand were stupid, if he's got a clean slate for the following five years, I feel like he'd be okay. But hey, I'm not an adcom.

By the way OP, going all the way through pharmacy school just to apply to medical school isn't the best idea. It's just an enormous waste of time and effort if your ultimate goal is being a physician.
 
bigeman101 said:
I understand that academic dishonesty is a huge red flag but I'm still surprised at the severity of some of these answers. It sounds like the OP was punished for their actions and paid the price. We make mistakes but we shouldn't dwell on them if we've moved on and changed. The OP has had a lot of redeeming experiences since then and sounds like an excellent candidate for med school. We all have to come to grips with our mistakes big or small. I think the OP should feel good about whichever decision.
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Schools see 5-10k applications for ~200 spots. Why accept a documented cheater when you can fill your class multiple times over with qualified applicants?

That's why its a big deal. Schools are looking for ways to weed out their applicant pool and OP gave them a pretty easy reason to do it.
 
ndafife said:
Schools see 5-10k applications for ~200 spots. Why accept a documented cheater when you can fill your class multiple times over with qualified applicants?

That's why its a big deal. Schools are looking for ways to weed out their applicant pool and OP gave them a pretty easy reason to do it.
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You bring up some valid points for sure. I still believe the OP shows more resilience as a result of their being caught and punished. But med school is med school.
 
Goro said:
Med schools check on all acceptees. That's simply doing due diligence.

Never, ever think that "they dont' time for that". That's a pre-med delusion.
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Can you clarify? Are you saying that med schools call each school that an acceptee attended? So, if a student has credits from 3 or 4 colleges, the med school will call each one? Interesting....
Many students have taken an odd class or two during the summer at a local Univ or CC, along with their 4 year college.
 
UnBearable said:
I’d rethink your plan very carefully. Why are you in a pharmacy program and switching to medicine? That’s six years of school (and debt) on top of medical school.

I’m a pharmacist who pursued medical school after completing a 6 year pharmacy program and it was the number one thing asked during my interview. Oh, and my transcript. Since 6 year programs are not the norm, your transcript can be confusing to some folks who interview you (undergrad gpa 2 years plus grad gpa 4 years). I spent more time explaining my transcript and “why not pharmacy” (and why not pursue a pharmacy residency) than I would have liked. Instead of talking about positive experiences I had in my application, I often was challenged to defend why medical school and not just continue as a clinical pharmacist. Being a pharmacist does not give you a leg up on applying to medical school (it doesn't hurt, either, but it's extra schooling and debt you do not need).

Since you also have an institutional action against you, you will have to spend even more time explaining this IA plus your 6 year program plus why not a pharmacy residency (it is a clinical career, after all, that is challenging— why not do that instead of becoming a MD?). I think you could make it work but it’ll be an uphill battle.

Honestly, I would not have continued pharmacy school if I found out earlier that it was not the career for me (but you have your own reasons).
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Prior to college I had a minor interest in medicine, but really wanted to work in a pharmaceutical company as an industry pharmacist like my dad providing large scale solutions for patients. However after having direct patient contact and shadowing a doctor this year, I realized I am much more inclined towards medicine. If I choose to drop out next year, it will be before officially starting the program and I will still be on track for premed and would not be asked about it. I had not considered that continuing pharmacy would hurt me, I thought maybe it would let me further distance myself from the incident and demonstrate my ability to ethically operate in a health care role. Your input is valid and greatly appreciated
 
ndafife said:
1. You were taking a college class at a college. It didn't happen before going to college. It happened while you were in college.
2. Why are you in pharmacy school if you are going to medical school? Generally its a bad idea to do vocational training for something you don't plan on going into.
3. With an IA, the rest of your application needs to be exemplary. You gave schools a reason to easily throw out your application, now you need to figure out how to force them to consider you.
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I was at an impasse between pharmacy and medicine. Many people begin the pharmacy program at my school so they can choose at the end of their 2nd year, as you can drop out then and still be on track. And yes you are absolutely right, I hope some people below will give me some advice on how to improve my application. Thank you
 
I told my mom about this incident last night and we cried together. It has been hard for me to share this experience because of my shame/don't want people to feel bad for me. However, hearing your responses, optimistic and not, have made me glad that I opened up and that people care enough to give me advice. A possible route we discussed is for me to complete my 6 year program so that I will still have a degree to live on just in case. This will allow me more distance from my incident and prove I can be an ethical health care professional. I plan to apply broadly afterwards, low tier MD, DO, foreign MD if necessary. What are the best ways to show I've improved as a person and demonstrate character? Besides joining the military...
 
Incredibly skeptical that this is a real person. Too many angles to bait people in with common sense responses that appeal to SDN e.g. blatant cheating that was caught but undocumented, pharmacy with the intent for medicine, exaggerated self-depreciation, and premature occupational role identity.
 
My situation is different than yours in that I hated pharmacy, hated my college, got academically dismissed from pharm school after the 1st semester of P1 (so 2.5 years into college and which ISNT noted on my transcript), although the classes I failed were evident on my transcript, and was essentially forced to finish a Bio major in the year I had left if I wanted to graduate on time. I also came here a lot when that happened and I couldn't find enough information about whether failing out of a graduate program such as pharmacy would kill all chances of med school but alas it didn't. I worked my ass off my last year at college, went straight into a masters program, and briefly explained my shortcomings during undergrad in my personal statement (2 F's, which i retook 1 out of 2 of those classes, and 3 D's, which I retook both classes, and got a D in the same class twice). HOWEVER, and I dont care what people have to say about this decision so save your breath....I did not say that I was academically dismissed on my apps and I dont regret it. The schools I applied to clearly saw my transcript and the classes I did poorly in so if they had any doubts on my academic abilities they didn't have to accept me. If and when pharmacy was ever brought up in my interviews, whether it was academics or my job as a pharm tech, I addressed it by noting my achievements in grad school and my last year in college and my strong upward trend. You are a dumb freshman straight out high school who made a dumb mistake. Just dont ever do it again and for the love of god, don't do pharmacy if you know you want to do med school.
 
ndafife said:
Schools see 5-10k applications for ~200 spots. Why accept a documented cheater when you can fill your class multiple times over with qualified applicants?

That's why its a big deal. Schools are looking for ways to weed out their applicant pool and OP gave them a pretty easy reason to do it.
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It's not just that. I believe in redemption and I love to see people recover from their mistakes. But the applicant who cheated is competing against hundreds of cream-of-the-crop applicants who didn't cheat. Am I supposed to look them in the eye and say their integrity counts for nothing?

In response to @bigeman101's statement about not dwelling on our mistakes once we've moved past them, I understand what you're saying, but the extent to which you're taking it is absurd. We should forgive ourselves, yes, but those who break rules do not get to dictate the terms of their own parole. Criminals don't get to tell society, "I've changed, I'm leaving prison now" -- rather, society's representatives on the parole board hear the case and determine whether to release the convict. Similarly, those who have been caught cheating don't get to tell medical schools, "I've changed, I'm coming to your school now." The school's representatives on the admissions committee review the application and determine whether they'll offer that candidate a place in their matriculating class. We should learn from our own mistakes and forgive ourselves, but we don't have the right to demand that others disregard what we've done.
 
Whoa man, this thread is a doozy :thinking: Didn't realize people thought there was wiggle room here.

Don't. Ever. Lie.

Sure, you made a mistake "at the age of 17/18." You know what also happened at age 18? I got a C+ in intro bio because I was an idiot and didn't know how to study, and I have been working to correct my first year GPA since. Lots of people have been trying to compensate for mistakes made early in adulthood. Doesn't give us the right to say "oh hey, I'm getting straight A's as a senior/graduate student, let me just change my underclassmen grades and hope no one notices."

That might be a dramatized analogy, but that's how I view it. You didn't just "accidentally glance" at someone's orgo test. You took your phone out. You may be an excellent candidate, but you can't omit something as significant as IA from your application.

I'm sorry this is troubling you, and I wish you all the best in your future. Pharmacy is still a great way to be involved with patient care.
 
Lawper said:
Based on the thread title, I thought someone was thinking about giving up on medicine because of artificial intelligence and its impact on jobs...

Sorry about your woes OP but @Goro and @HomeSkool gave you good advice so I defer to them
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I thought the exact same thing and was pretty dissapointed. It’s like when you take a bite of a cookie and there are raisins inside instead of chocolate chips. 8(
 
HomeSkool said:
The OP is talking about redemption after lying to get ahead. What the @$!# is wrong with you that you would even suggest a bigger lie to cover up the first one? The first lie put his future in question; a second one would end it completely. Furthermore, those of us with a moral compass recognize that lying is wrong even if we don't get caught. For you to even suggest that course of action is incredibly malicious.
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Come on big guy, enough with the moral superiority image. Your holier-than-thou attitude disgusts me. The guy obviously shouldn't be judged on a stupid little mistake made in the past. Keep your emotions in check and leave the ad hominems at the door.
 
PreMedMissteps said:
Can you clarify? Are you saying that med schools call each school that an acceptee attended? So, if a student has credits from 3 or 4 colleges, the med school will call each one? Interesting....
Many students have taken an odd class or two during the summer at a local Univ or CC, along with their 4 year college.
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Yes. We get their transcripts, you know.
 
sab3156 said:
Come on big guy, enough with the moral superiority image.
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It's not an image; by encouraging honesty when you're promoting deceit, I am morally superior to you. (I fixed your statement so you wouldn't look like a little asswipe. You're welcome.)

sab3156 said:
Your holier-than-thou attitude disgusts me.
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Your immorality and malignantly bad advice disgust me.

sab3156 said:
The guy obviously shouldn't be judged on a stupid little mistake made in the past.
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He's competing with tens of thousands of people who didn't cheat. Why shouldn't their integrity matter?

sab3156 said:
Keep your emotions in check and leave the ad hominems at the door.
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IMG_5362.JPG
 
Goro said:
I WAS going skewer sab, but after Homeskool got through with him, I don't have the heart to pile on. It would be too easy.

Getting back on thread, one of the other uphill problems the OP faces is the mindset of "Is this someone we want in our class?"
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I think you’ve approached it before, but don’t you also think “is this just the only time they’ve gotten caught? How often do they cheat?” “How do we know they won’t cheat if given the opportunity to in med school?” “Can this person be trusted in a clinical setting? Will they lie if they mess up?”

Just things to think about?
 
ciestar said:
I think you’ve approached it before, but don’t you also think “is this just the only time they’ve gotten caught? How often do they cheat?” “How do we know they won’t cheat if given the opportunity to in med school?” “Can this person be trusted in a clinical setting? Will they lie if they mess up?”

Just things to think about?
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100000% spot on.
 
ciestar said:
I think you’ve approached it before, but don’t you also think “is this just the only time they’ve gotten caught? How often do they cheat?” “How do we know they won’t cheat if given the opportunity to in med school?” “Can this person be trusted in a clinical setting? Will they lie if they mess up?”

Just things to think about?
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Goro said:
Also, we need to consider the perfectionist mindset that drove OP's decision making. Poor judgement in several differen venues.
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I once heard someone say, "Wise people learn from experience. Super-wise people learn from others' experience." The ideal situation would have been for the OP to have decided not to cheat in the first place. However, having done so his best course of action is now to learn from the experience and emerge a better man.

OP, I think you're to be commended for this statement:
nutellalicker said:
I took a lesson and am trying to be an honest person from now on.
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That's the best attitude you could possibly have, and it shows growth and maturation. But saying it on SDN isn't enough. You need to demonstrate to adcoms that you really did learn the lesson. The way to do that is through exemplary behavior, service, leadership, mentoring, etc. -- all the stuff @Goro said in his first post. Don't despair, continue working with the expectation of eventual success, and have a backup plan.
 
Edited the title because I was also bamboozled by this thread.

OP, don’t lie. Sounds like you’ve got a good attitude. Put in the time and definitely have a plan B career.

Others, don’t tell Op to lie. Even if you don’t care about lying and are willing to do “whatever it takes” to get into med school, if the Op is caught lying at any point in their career then their career is over, permanently, which is far worse than starting medical school a couple of years later than expected.
 
Goro said:
Yes. We get their transcripts, you know.
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Yes of course transcripts are received. But if the IA isn’t on the transcript, would the schools know because they ALSO call and inquire about possible IAs because they might not be noted on the transcript?
 
PreMedMissteps said:
Yes of course transcripts are received. But if the IA isn’t on the transcript, would the schools know because they ALSO call and inquire about possible IAs because they might not be noted on the transcript?
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At this point I think it is safe to assume that adcoms know some applicants lie. It seems plausible they could call to inquire about these things.

Im no adcom so i have no idea what goes on behind the scenes
 
I know someone who did something similar and blatantly obvious freshman year, had an official IA on record and had multiple acceptances after several gap years. Granted probably not the same tier schools they would have been accepted to without the IA, but it's not an unsalvageable situation.
 
HomeSkool said:
He's competing with tens of thousands of people who didn't cheat. Why shouldn't their integrity matter?
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Bull****. For example, I know someone with a criminal record that was purged/sealed and they never mentioned it on their application and are in med school. Do you really think an immature moment where he cheated on one multiple choice question should prevent the OP from entering medical school, when people with criminal records are getting in? I think he is mature enough not to do it again.


Lucca said:
Edited the title because I was also bamboozled by this thread.

OP, don’t lie. Sounds like you’ve got a good attitude. Put in the time and definitely have a plan B career.

Others, don’t tell Op to lie. Even if you don’t care about lying and are willing to do “whatever it takes” to get into med school, if the Op is caught lying at any point in their career then their career is over, permanently, which is far worse than starting medical school a couple of years later than expected.
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He may not ever get into medical school in the first place. Though I don't know how most schools will view the IA.
 
sab3156 said:
Bull****. For example, I know someone with a criminal record that was purged/sealed and they never mentioned it on their application and are in med school. Do you really think an immature moment where he cheated on one multiple choice question should prevent the OP from entering medical school, when people with criminal records are getting in? I think he is mature enough not to do it again.
Click to expand...

He wasn’t mature enough to not do it in the first place. Also, tu quoque style arguments are not valid.

I’m all about forgiveness, and six years of not cheating, good grades, and a hell of a convincing story of change would be enough for me. But I’m not an adcom.
 
HomeSkool said:
It's not an image; by encouraging honesty when you're promoting deceit, I am morally superior to you. (I fixed your statement so you wouldn't look like a little asswipe. You're welcome.)


Your immorality and malignantly bad advice disgust me.


He's competing with tens of thousands of people who didn't cheat. Why shouldn't their integrity matter?


View attachment 235641
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I really missed your posts.
 
smukke said:
I know someone who did something similar and blatantly obvious freshman year, had an official IA on record and had multiple acceptances after several gap years. Granted probably not the same tier schools they would have been accepted to without the IA, but it's not an unsalvageable situation.
Click to expand...

sab3156 said:
Bull****. For example, I know someone with a criminal record that was purged/sealed and they never mentioned it on their application and are in med school. Do you really think an immature moment where he cheated on one multiple choice question should prevent the OP from entering medical school, when people with criminal records are getting in? I think he is mature enough not to do it again.

He may not ever get into medical school in the first place. Though I don't know how most schools will view the IA.
Click to expand...
I'll match your anecdata with one of my own. Just yesterday, our Adcom for our SMP was deliberating, and one of the candidates had a cheating incident also. It was less stupid than the OP's, but cheating on an exam nonetheless.

We rejected said candidate.

In fact, in my recollection, we have never taken someone with an exam cheating IA. BTW, not all criminal records are the same, and there are differences between crimes against property, and crimes of moral turpitude. We can forgive DUI, for example.

My clinical colleagues take professionalism VERY seriously. Yet you apologists and cheatsplainers seem appalled that we hold applicants to standards. Some of you even encourage lying about these things on apps.

Interesting attitude for people who want to take part in a profession that values honesty.

Actually, smukke's story is more in line in what I told that OP. His/her medical career is in stasis.
 
Goro said:
I'll match your anecdata with one of my own. Just yesterday, our Adcom for our SMP was deliberating, and one of the candidates had a cheating incident also. It was less stupid than the OP's, but cheating on an exam nonetheless.

We rejected said candidate.

In fact, in my recollection, we have never taken someone with an exam cheating IA. BTW, not all criminal records are the same, and there are differences between crimes against property, and crimes of moral turpitude. We can forgive DUI, for example.

My clinical colleagues take professionalism VERY seriously. Yet you apologists and cheatsplainers seem appalled that we hold applicants to standards. Some of you even encourage lying about these things on apps.

Interesting attitude for people who want to take part in a profession that values honesty.

Actually, smukke's story is more in line in what I told that OP. His/her medical career is in stasis.
Click to expand...
"anecdata" "cheatsplainers" I love neologisms 😍
 
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