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The downside to mid-level providers in my experience is that their training is both less broad and less deep than a doctor's. Their experience is good for 90% of what a doctor deals with a daily basis, but when something unusual comes up or the **** really hits the fan, their algorithm based training falls short. Medical school and residency spends MUCH more time teaching theory and teaching how to think than PA/NP school. Most of the time you don't need to think and you don't need to know the theory, but when you do....bad things happen. Ask any anesthesiologist or OB/GYN for a horror story involving mid-levels in their field. They've all got plenty.

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Maybe not all, but certainly many in the AF that end up as GMOs did a military internship, wanted or not.

Define many. Everybody that is non-USUHS graduate or is not doing a military residency, will do a civilian internship. In the AF, there is not nearly enough PGY-1 military spots to go around. I would estimate that only 50% per year will do a military internship, and that is being generous.
 
The downside to mid-level providers in my experience is that their training is both less broad and less deep than a doctor's. Their experience is good for 90% of what a doctor deals with a daily basis, but when something unusual comes up or the **** really hits the fan, their algorithm based training falls short. Medical school and residency spends MUCH more time teaching theory and teaching how to think than PA/NP school. Most of the time you don't need to think and you don't need to know the theory, but when you do....bad things happen. Ask any anesthesiologist or OB/GYN for a horror story involving mid-levels in their field. They've all got plenty.

Not sure about the exact mechanism of NP training but I can tell you that PA training does not utilize algorithm style learning. My library of required textbooks includes Harrison's IM, CMDT, Merck Manual, Netter's, Tintinalli's, Bates...the EXACT same books Med schools use. In fact, Med students and PAs take the same classes together at some programs.

PA training = Medical Model = Fast-track Doc training style used by the military to train Physicians in Vietnam.

I have rotations scheduled in IM, FP/UC, EM/Trauma, Neurosurg, OB/Gyn, Cardiology/CCU, Geriatrics, Mental Health and more to still be scheduled. We take a National Certifying Exam (PANCE) which is approved by the AMA and other Medical oversight committees/associations. We have post-grad residencies in specialties such as ICU/Trauma Med, Oncology, Orthosurg, CTS, and many others. In the military PAs even work in aviation medicine.

So I believe that you must be generalizing midlevels as one in the same. There are differences in training and this again is why you do see more PAs in the surgical theater and other subspecialties more so than NPs.
 
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The downside to mid-level providers in my experience is that their training is both less broad and less deep than a doctor's. Their experience is good for 90% of what a doctor deals with a daily basis, but when something unusual comes up or the **** really hits the fan, their algorithm based training falls short. quote]

This is why PAs are dependent practitioners. We do not fall under a seperate entity (Nursing Board) and work in collaboration with Physicians. That is what our profession is based on...but keep in mind that a competent PA with experience can do a large % of routine patient care. I beleive that this can be a sore spot for some.
 
Define many. Everybody that is non-USUHS graduate or is not doing a military residency, will do a civilian internship. In the AF, there is not nearly enough PGY-1 military spots to go around. I would estimate that only 50% per year will do a military internship, and that is being generous.

Even if they're going to be doing a military residency... I apologize I am confused. :confused:
 
I am intrested in serving my country as a physician in the military. I was diagnosed with Crohn's disesase over 5 years ago. I am still currently on medication. Am I elligible for the military scholarship or will I ever be elligibile?

This dx would preclude your service.
 
What would be the possible ramifications for it least attempting to pass the physical. I have been told numerous times that many people forget to tell the physical doc of thier entire history. If lets say I did pass the physical through dishonest means, ( which does happen please do not respond saying its a cardnial sin to lie about your medical history) what is the worst that could happen. I assume I am no good to the military in the field, I would also assume I would have to pay back any loans which wouldnt matter b/c I would need to pay the money for tuition regardless. I guess I am trying to ask if there is any possibilities of a dishonorable discharge, or if something could haunt me throughout my career? Thank you for your experienced responses.
 
What would be the possible ramifications for it least attempting to pass the physical. I have been told numerous times that many people forget to tell the physical doc of thier entire history. If lets say I did pass the physical through dishonest means, ( which does happen please do not respond saying its a cardnial sin to lie about your medical history) what is the worst that could happen. I assume I am no good to the military in the field, I would also assume I would have to pay back any loans which wouldnt matter b/c I would need to pay the money for tuition regardless. I guess I am trying to ask if there is any possibilities of a dishonorable discharge, or if something could haunt me throughout my career? Thank you for your experienced responses.

It is a federal offense to lie to them. They *could* fine you and put you in jail. More likely, they'll get really pissed and discharge you and require monetary penalties + repayment. When you go to MEPS, they'll tell you how serious lying on the forms is. It is either a misdemeanor or a felony, I don't remember.

If you decide to try anyway, do so at your own risk. Best of luck, and sorry to learn of you ineligibility to serve. Bummer.
 
What would be the possible ramifications for it least attempting to pass the physical. I have been told numerous times that many people forget to tell the physical doc of thier entire history. If lets say I did pass the physical through dishonest means, ( which does happen please do not respond saying its a cardnial sin to lie about your medical history) what is the worst that could happen. I assume I am no good to the military in the field, I would also assume I would have to pay back any loans which wouldnt matter b/c I would need to pay the money for tuition regardless. I guess I am trying to ask if there is any possibilities of a dishonorable discharge, or if something could haunt me throughout my career? Thank you for your experienced responses.

Honestly, I think it would be one thing if you are not actively on meds and could consider yourself in remission. But the fact that you are dependent on medication you are obviously still in an active state. Lying to meps to say you have never gotten a headache (so they don't freak out and assume you have a brain tumor) or that you never had trouble sleeping, ect. is one thing. Lying to them about a autoimmune disease that in its active state can severely affect job performance is quite another
 
Even if they're going to be doing a military residency... I apologize I am confused. :confused:

What are you confused about?

The majority of GMOs in the AF did not do a military internship (PGY-1)

None of the 7 non-residency trained Flight Docs at my base did a military internship.
 
i think he lasted around the same amount of time as the other recruiters. i wonder what happens when they drop off the planet like that?


--your friendly neighborhood waiting for the next one caveman
 
Define many. Everybody that is non-USUHS graduate or is not doing a military residency, will do a civilian internship. In the AF, there is not nearly enough PGY-1 military spots to go around. I would estimate that only 50% per year will do a military internship, and that is being generous.

That's the fun thing about words like many. It could mean anything from 10-90%. :)
 
Not sure about the exact mechanism of NP training but I can tell you that PA training does not utilize algorithm style learning. My library of required textbooks includes Harrison's IM, CMDT, Merck Manual, Netter's, Tintinalli's, Bates...the EXACT same books Med schools use. In fact, Med students and PAs take the same classes together at some programs.

I'm not sure if we're agreeing or disagreeing or maybe a little of both. Just because you used textbooks doesn't mean you approach problems the same way a doc might. I mean, come on, you don't really claim to have read Harrisons or Tintinalli during PA school do you? It isn't uncommon at all for an emergency doc to read Tintinallis cover to cover or an internist to read Harrison's cover to cover during residency.

It isn't so much the algorithm based learning as the algorithm based practice that I see so much these days. (Although I've been told by PAs that their school was definitely "fast-tracked" in that when they asked "Why..." they were basically told "That's just the way it is" and the instructor moved on to the next subject.

I work frequently with half a dozen very good PAs and see algorithm based thinking all the time.

If we both see a 8 month old well-appearing girl with fever, a cough, and a pulse ox of 96% at sea level, this is the way the PA thinks about it:

Peds fever....blood cultures, CBC, urine cx, cxr. If WBC>15 or <5, give Rocephin, see again tomorrow here or in the pediatricians office.

Whereas the doc knows the literature behind which studies the patient needs and which ones the patient doesn't, so when a new paper comes out, he can evaluate it and determine how his practice ought to change. He also understands the reasoning, uncertainty, and limitations behind each of the tests and when they need to be done and when they don't. For instance, based on current literature, an 8 month old girl needs a UA/Cx even with a confirmed diagnosis of RSV but an 8 month old boy doesn't need a UA/Cx if he's circumcised, well-appearing, and has no hx of UTI. 5 months, they both get a UA. A febrile kiddo with an abnormal RR, pulse ox, abnormal chest exam, or respiratory symptoms needs a CXR, most kids don't. A well-appearing febrile child without significant PMH who's had his 2,4, and 6 month vaccinations doesn't need a blood culture. A PA may see that this is how the docs around him practice, and adopt their style, but he may not understand the reason why (the rate of false positives in this group is so much higher than the true positives due to the introduction of the Hib and Pneumococcal vaccines that we do more harm than good by testing and treating the positives.) More likely, he'll just order all the tests in my experience, "so he doesn't miss anything." 90% of the time, it's fine. They are subtleties, fine points, but at rare times, important distinctions.
 
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I'm not sure if we're agreeing or disagreeing or maybe a little of both.
A little of both I believe but I do understand your viewpoint a little better now.
Just because you used textbooks doesn't mean you approach problems the same way a doc might. I mean, come on, you don't really claim to have read Harrisons or Tintinalli during PA school do you? It isn't uncommon at all for an emergency doc to read Tintinallis cover to cover or an internist to read Harrison's cover to cover during residency.

No, not completely but we do read and reference them in our training. I will be referencing them long after I finish PA school as well.

It isn't so much the algorithm based learning as the algorithm based practice that I see so much these days. (Although I've been told by PAs that their school was definitely "fast-tracked" in that when they asked "Why..." they were basically told "That's just the way it is" and the instructor moved on to the next subject.

I am civilian-training, not IPAP. We use the Etiology, Pathophys, S/Sx, DDx, Assessment and Treatment, Education and Follow-up approach. We do utilize EBM in our curriculum as well.

I work frequently with half a dozen very good PAs and see algorithm based thinking all the time.

Are you referring to a "most common", "typical tx plan", TOC or DOC based on pts age, presentation, etc. approach? Well OK I can see your point if this is what you mean.

Obviously with more schooling comes more understanding so I would agree that the "why" lends itself more to what you as a Physician are responsible for. My DDx list may not be as deep as yours and if I am out of my element then I come to you...dependent practitioner.

How many times a day do you consult with the PAs you work with? Just curious.

Thanks for keeping the conversation just that and not reverting to the chest-thumping that commonly occurs...:D
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i think he lasted around the same amount of time as the other recruiters. i wonder what happens when they drop off the planet like that?


--your friendly neighborhood waiting for the next one caveman

They seperate and become headhunters for Fortune 500 companies with interests in the middle east...lol.:idea:
 
It is a federal offense to lie to them. They *could* fine you and put you in jail. More likely, they'll get really pissed and discharge you and require monetary penalties + repayment. When you go to MEPS, they'll tell you how serious lying on the forms is. It is either a misdemeanor or a felony, I don't remember.

If you decide to try anyway, do so at your own risk. Best of luck, and sorry to learn of you ineligibility to serve. Bummer.

Would it be different if he didn't have anything disqualifying before and then after entering the HPSP program, if he were to be diagnosed with Crohn's disease? What would happen then? Does the Navy just drop you?
 
Would it be different if he didn't have anything disqualifying before and then after entering the HPSP program, if he were to be diagnosed with Crohn's disease? What would happen then? Does the Navy just drop you?

At least in the AF, we were required to report if there were any changes in our health/medical conditions on a yearly basis, while we were in med school. I am sure it is the same way if you are in residency in a civilian program.

I am unsure if that person would have to go through a Medical Evaluation Board (MEB) as that person has not yet started Active Duty yet
 
I don't generally consult with my PAs about anything...although sometimes I'll show them something cool I found. Actually, that's not true. I've had them look at a rash every now and then (I suck at rashes) but if I don't know what it is they don't either usually.

They typically consult me once or twice a shift (out of maybe 30 patients they see.) But they generally will pick up the "less-sick" patients. At one place a work there is a separate "fast-track" they work in. At the other place, I simply preferentially grab the sicker patients (which still aren't all that sick) or they simply leave them for me. I've offered my PAs opportunities to do LPs and had them turn me down, which I thought was a little odd since they seem to love going to trauma courses and doing chest tubes and intubations there (none of which ever happens in the EDs I work in with the military, but don't tell that new guy on the other thread who doesn't want to hear from disgruntled EPs.)
 
I don't generally consult with my PAs about anything...although sometimes I'll show them something cool I found. Actually, that's not true. I've had them look at a rash every now and then (I suck at rashes) but if I don't know what it is they don't either usually.

They typically consult me once or twice a shift (out of maybe 30 patients they see.) But they generally will pick up the "less-sick" patients. At one place a work there is a separate "fast-track" they work in. At the other place, I simply preferentially grab the sicker patients (which still aren't all that sick) or they simply leave them for me. I've offered my PAs opportunities to do LPs and had them turn me down, which I thought was a little odd since they seem to love going to trauma courses and doing chest tubes and intubations there (none of which ever happens in the EDs I work in with the military, but don't tell that new guy on the other thread who doesn't want to hear from disgruntled EPs.)

I can appreciate your humor. I believe you to be a person that is approachable and realistic as to what patient management is really about. Now I know that does not quite ring true in milmed...but let's not go there.:rolleyes:;)

I'm glad you caught on to the fact that I intended to say, "How often do PAs consult with you about a patient they are working up/treating?". The distinction is important in that you should be seeing the "sicker" patients if they truly are more complex cases.

That is the beauty of dependent practitioner IMHO. I know that after significant time and experience as a PA I will be able to do more. There will be continuous growth curve. I just hope to get into a situation when I start my AD payback where I am surrounded by providers willing to teach and mentor. If not, I may become one of the majority here and adapt the BOHICA mentality,lol:laugh:

I am guessing that you are at Travis or WHMC. If so I know the environment you referenced...:hungover:
 
I have been following this discussion and would like some of your opinions on a program other than the HPSP. The Nat'l Guard has a program that they are accepting students for right now where they say they will put in writing that you are non-deployable until you finish med school and residency. My question is should this be trusted. I am in med school (2nd year) with a wife and 3 little ones. I would like to join the guard and the program suits our needs better than the army, navy, or air force. They say the reason they can't pull out of residency is that because it is not a military residency, if a person gets pulled out of it they would be required to start all over back at the beginning. The contract they make you sign is for 6 years and starts as soon as you sing. Meaning, according to the recruiter, that I will be done with my time during my 3rd year of residency and thus would never have a chance to be deployed, unless I stay in which is a definite possibility. What do you guys think about this???
 
I have been following this discussion and would like some of your opinions on a program other than the HPSP. The Nat'l Guard has a program that they are accepting students for right now where they say they will put in writing that you are non-deployable until you finish med school and residency. My question is should this be trusted. I am in med school (2nd year) with a wife and 3 little ones. I would like to join the guard and the program suits our needs better than the army, navy, or air force. They say the reason they can't pull out of residency is that because it is not a military residency, if a person gets pulled out of it they would be required to start all over back at the beginning. The contract they make you sign is for 6 years and starts as soon as you sing. Meaning, according to the recruiter, that I will be done with my time during my 3rd year of residency and thus would never have a chance to be deployed, unless I stay in which is a definite possibility. What do you guys think about this???

things that sound too good to be true, especially in the military, probably are.

the non-deployable stuff soudns right-- not during school or residency, however-- i seriously doubt time in your residency (or medschool) are counting toward that 6 year contract. what is in it for the military? it would be pretty stupid for them to pay for your school, let you train in residency 3 years, then let you go. ask the recruiter specifically when your obligation is over, and what years count toward the contractual payback.

unless i'm totally off base of course. anyone else familiar with this program?

--your friendly neighborhood skeptical caveman
 
I agree with the philosophy that if it sounds too good to be true in usually is, especially with the military. However, there are some big differences between this and HPSP. The Guard will not pay a penny for tuition unless I sign back up with them for a 3-5 year commitment when my 6 years are up. What they are offering is active duty pay for a 2nd lieutenant while in medical school provided I help them recruit and do my drill. Then regular guard pay while I am in residency. Does this sound more plausible?
 
I agree with the philosophy that if it sounds too good to be true in usually is, especially with the military. However, there are some big differences between this and HPSP. The Guard will not pay a penny for tuition unless I sign back up with them for a 3-5 year commitment when my 6 years are up. What they are offering is active duty pay for a 2nd lieutenant while in medical school provided I help them recruit and do my drill. Then regular guard pay while I am in residency. Does this sound more plausible?

it does sound more plausible. but it also begs the question of what use you would be to them for 6 years if they can't use you like everyone else. what kind of recruiting are they going to have you do?

get everything in writing and be careful, lol

--your friendly neighborhood fully deployable caveman
 
i would refer Spineman to the 2 threads titled "nat guard instead of HPSP" and "Best Mil Deal Ever". Both of these threads have individuals in the nat guard ADSW program and the questions you refer to have been touched on in these threads =D
 
Search button did not produce any useful results, so...

I'm not a citizen, but I really want to go to USUHS. And with all the application expenses coming up, I really cannot afford the $800 right now to pay for the citizenship (otherwise, I qualify).

Also I hear it's a lengthy process, which can take half a year or more, but USUHS asks for citizenship by November of the year in which you apply--in other words, in 4 months.

I would hate to skip a year. Is there still a way for me to get in? Could they maybe accept me as enlisted until I get the citizenship? Or, are my chances basically zero and I shouldn't even bother?
 
Search button did not produce any useful results, so...

I'm not a citizen, but I really want to go to USUHS. And with all the application expenses coming up, I really cannot afford the $800 right now to pay for the citizenship (otherwise, I qualify).

Also I hear it's a lengthy process, which can take half a year or more, but USUHS asks for citizenship by November of the year in which you apply--in other words, in 4 months.

I would hate to skip a year. Is there still a way for me to get in? Could they maybe accept me as enlisted until I get the citizenship? Or, are my chances basically zero and I shouldn't even bother?

You have to be a commissioned officer in the US Military for any of these programs and that requires citizenship.
 
Greetings all! Like the title says Im a Amedd recruiter and mostly recruit HPSP. I joined this forum to answer questions and gain insight into military medicine and military docs. I am currently stationed in New Jersey and cover most of NJ.(UMDNJ, Rutgers, Seton Hall). Look forward to chatting with all of you!

SSG Clevenger


Question please:

Can you get an FAP for a military residency?

You don't get full pay as a captain in a civilian residency correct?

Do you have to be a HSPS to obtain a military residency?

Thanks for your time.
 
Can you get an FAP for a military residency?
No. FAP is a stipend you get while you are going through your civilian residency. After you finish your civilian residency, you will be obligated to serve as a full-time military physician.
You don't get full pay as a captain in a civilian residency correct?
You get about $70K/year from the military plus whatever your civilian residnecy pays, so somewhere between $100K-$110K. The military pays you an annual grant of $45K plus whatever the monthly HPSP stipend is (about $1900/month currently). All this is before taxes.
Do you have to be a HSPS to obtain a military residency?
HPSP or UHUHS. I don't know any other way.
 
HPSP or UHUHS. I don't know any other way.

Graduate a civilian residency in something, come into the military as an attending and apply for a new residency. I've met one person who was an attending for several years, came into the military as a flight surgeon for a few years and then applied for a different residency. I guess that would make 3 ways...
 
Graduate a civilian residency in something, come into the military as an attending and apply for a new residency. I've met one person who was an attending for several years, came into the military as a flight surgeon for a few years and then applied for a different residency. I guess that would make 3 ways...
Why. On. Earth?
 
Becoming a flight surgeon to fight boredom? Isn't that kind of out-of-the-flying-pan/into-the-fire?

Oh well. I suppose that after doing a tour as a flight surgeon he was eligible for military residencies. Given that it can be very hard to get a second residency approved in anything other than primary care due to funding issues, the military might have been a smarter choice.
 
SSG, I am considering joining the ANG. I have never served before and currently work in the IT field but I am considering a career change to the medical field. To participate in the ASR program do you already have to be working towards a medical degree?
 
You may not be interested in military medicine. That doesn't mean that you need to ruin it for everyone else. Not everyone wants to be a doctor because of money. In fact I would not go to a doctor who is only worried about money. I don't think that half of these people in here have any idea the effect their words have. We still need a military to protect our country and we need selfless acts such as the ones from our military docs to save the lives of the men an women who dedicate their lives to endure the freedoms of our country. Might sound corny to you, but you might be one of the shallow incosiderate people who have medical school handed to you and have absolutely no plans on serving your community unless it means $300,000 per year in your pocket. Grow some courage stop being so shallow, and stop trying to prevent people from serving our country. Or you will be one of the ******s saying,"friggin draft man, what the hell" (in the voice of Chich and chong) haha.
Give the sgt some friggin credit and respect for giving you the freedom to be an opinionated jerk in a chatroom.
 
No disrespect, but you really have to understand your product. There are not too many ways to polish a turd, and you have worse than a turd on your hand. If you can sell a 4 (8 IRR) yr commitment that includes a significant possibility of training interruption and increasing your commitment to get trained, potentially bottom tier GME, potential mediocre colleagues, poor leadership, poor to no support, and a practically zero retention rate. Who with that information would sign away their early career?? You have a job I could not imagine how you will do.

To get a glimpse of what your up against, check what current and ex AD physicians are saying:

http://www.health.mil/Debates/Debate.aspx?ID=9&a=1

Also you will need a few hours, (days) to familiarize yourself with this forum.

squirrelnine:
You know, you're a dumb ass. I have an idea, how about your recruit people out of the military. Than maybe we can have a draft everytime we go to war. If people are going to volunteer for what you don't have the courage to, then let them. There are far more advantages to being a military doc than you give credit.
 
You may not be interested in military medicine. That doesn't mean that you need to ruin it for everyone else. Not everyone wants to be a doctor because of money. In fact I would not go to a doctor who is only worried about money. I don't think that half of these people in here have any idea the effect their words have. We still need a military to protect our country and we need selfless acts such as the ones from our military docs to save the lives of the men an women who dedicate their lives to endure the freedoms of our country. Might sound corny to you, but you might be one of the shallow incosiderate people who have medical school handed to you and have absolutely no plans on serving your community unless it means $300,000 per year in your pocket. Grow some courage stop being so shallow, and stop trying to prevent people from serving our country. Or you will be one of the ******s saying,"friggin draft man, what the hell" (in the voice of Chich and chong) haha.
Give the sgt some friggin credit and respect for giving you the freedom to be an opinionated jerk in a chatroom.

there's waving your flag, and then there's putting your money where your mouth is. You need to sign up, and spend some time in the military.

watch this board while you go through pre-med, then medical school, and go ahead and go to USUHS, or take the HPSP, and then come on back when your rose colored glasses have tarnished.

I say this because I would have likely sounded a lot like you back when I was pre-med. Now, I sound more like Galo.

i want out (of IRR)
 
Is is a violation of the TOS to call yourself a name?

Ed

:laugh: Forget it... he's rolling


bluto.jpg
 
squirrelnine:
You know, you're a dumb ass.

Squirrelnine,

Ovbiously you must have some further knowledge of military medicine than my 6 years as an active duty general surgeon. You also sound really tough and intimidating. Maybe you should just join up right now and go kill some foreigners to make you feel more patriotic. Just don't get hurt and end up on an operating table under the knife of a person who spent 14 yrs getting trained, but because of the stupidity and mediocrity of military medicine has not done an emergency exploratory lap in 3-4 yrs and has not taken it upon himself to not be a team player or allowed to moonlight doing traima and is not 100% sure how to save your miserable life. Maybe 80%. Would that be good for you?


You ingnorant little pissant, your perfect fodder for the military with that attitude, and you need to learn how to critically evaluate what your going to do with your future other than to knee jerk a reaction with a responce that paints you as some kind of uber patriot who is better than us who served our time.

The only hope I have is that you have the nads to post on this forum again with your experiences IF you ever become a military officer who has the designation of a doctor.

PS. If our military situation gets much worse, there very likely will be a draft, no matter how many people I help make an informed decision about military medicine opposed to the lies a recruiter tells them.
 
Squirrelnine,

Ovbiously you must have some further knowledge of military medicine than my 6 years as an active duty general surgeon. You also sound really tough and intimidating. Maybe you should just join up right now and go kill some foreigners to make you feel more patriotic. Just don't get hurt and end up on an operating table under the knife of a person who spent 14 yrs getting trained, but because of the stupidity and mediocrity of military medicine has not done an emergency exploratory lap in 3-4 yrs and has not taken it upon himself to not be a team player or allowed to moonlight doing traima and is not 100% sure how to save your miserable life. Maybe 80%. Would that be good for you?


You ingnorant little pissant, your perfect fodder for the military with that attitude, and you need to learn how to critically evaluate what your going to do with your future other than to knee jerk a reaction with a responce that paints you as some kind of uber patriot who is better than us who served our time.

The only hope I have is that you have the nads to post on this forum again with your experiences IF you ever become a military officer who has the designation of a doctor.

PS. If our military situation gets much worse, there very likely will be a draft, no matter how many people I help make an informed decision about military medicine opposed to the lies a recruiter tells them.

Galo, we worry about your blood pressure! I challenge thee: List 5 positive things about your MilMed experience (and one shouldn't be having the opportunity to log on here and bitch about MilMed, we'll take that as a given)
 
Galo, we worry about your blood pressure! I challenge thee: List 5 positive things about your MilMed experience (and one shouldn't be having the opportunity to log on here and bitch about MilMed, we'll take that as a given)


Thanks for worrying about my health. My BP, weight, well being has improved 100% since I left the military. Although I am by nature a bit high strung, and I still take hooks with too much ease, I'm working on it, it will be my life struggle.

I've posted my positive experiences on the pro thread a while back if you want to look back, be my guest.

What I'm not sure about is what your experience is in military medicine. I remember you've been in the line before, so you base your experience on that, and its a good supposition, but for some reason completely wrong. On a recent thread someone mentioned that the JAG had told them a majority of petty and ridiculous complaints come from the med group. I did not have time to post, but that was my exact experience at both bases I was at, and yes, I visited the JAG a number of times at both places only to reiterate the fact that once you have rank, you can literally get away with murder. I think that the issue you find at a medical center that you don't find in the line is that the job of being a doctor is so specific and important, that when you have some substandard doctor, nurse, MSC, officer screw with that process, if you are a dedicated physician, there is going to be friction.

Although I am clearly not the only person to experience and post about this, I would like to know how you can post with such certainty, that what we describe is somehow a lie, or exagerated, or possible in the almost perfect military that you experienced?????
 
There is a lot going on here it seems. So I figured I would give my perspective too, why not.

I joined the Army right out of high school in 2000. I Decided I was going to figured out my direction there. I served in the Special Operations Command and jumped into Iraq, and four combat deployments later, I found my direction in life. It was not until I had some intimate experiences with the loss of close friends that I decided to be a doctor. I can state that (as the question was asked if I ever killed anyone in my interview) the loss one experiences in combat is the same regardless of what side of the weapon you are on, part of you still dies inside, at least it was for me.

So in regards to where I will end up, (and in relation to this thread) I feel the need to at least be in the military so that I can recalibrate myself and my past that seems to bear the weight of my agony. It is a personal issue for me to change the the personal mission that I had, helping and not killing. I never "drank the conservative Kool-Aide" that we were ever fighting for freedom, I more or less "rocked the proverbial boat."

In all really, make the decision what fits you all. For me, I have skeletons in my memory that I need to keep at bay through service, even though service created those skeletons in the first place. But more importantly, make an informed decision......its your duty

3-75 Ranger out.......
 
There is a lot going on here it seems. So I figured I would give my perspective too, why not.

I joined the Army right out of high school in 2000. I Decided I was going to figured out my direction there. I served in the Special Operations Command and jumped into Iraq, and four combat deployments later, I found my direction in life. It was not until I had some intimate experiences with the loss of close friends that I decided to be a doctor. I can state that (as the question was asked if I ever killed anyone in my interview) the loss one experiences in combat is the same regardless of what side of the weapon you are on, part of you still dies inside, at least it was for me.

So in regards to where I will end up, (and in relation to this thread) I feel the need to at least be in the military so that I can recalibrate myself and my past that seems to bear the weight of my agony. It is a personal issue for me to change the the personal mission that I had, helping and not killing. I never "drank the conservative Kool-Aide" that we were ever fighting for freedom, I more or less "rocked the proverbial boat."

In all really, make the decision what fits you all. For me, I have skeletons in my memory that I need to keep at bay through service, even though service created those skeletons in the first place. But more importantly, make an informed decision......its your duty

3-75 Ranger out.......


First of all thank you for your service and sacrifice. My 6 years of hell seem easy compared to what you had to endure. I'm sure that any competent mental health specialist will tell you (I think), that you don't need to be in the military to exercise your demons. To that same line, if you thought it best that you could help out by being a special forces soldier, and signed up again but they sent you in as a cook, you may not be too happy. Be sure why you want to go back in. You can always become a physician, of your choice, based on your performance, and then join the military how you think you will be able to serve better. The military will always take you as a physician. I just think the hazards in getting trained are potentially too much. I also happen to think the system is badly broken and would not suggest you become a part of it, but I can understand your desire. Also, as a person of conviction who "rocked the proverbial boat", as a physician, you will find alot more boats to rock, even in the army.
 
To be honest, I'm not sure that I understood the tone of your post, whether you're leaning (or not) towards milmed. You seem to suggest a need to be in the military, but then maybe not, per your 'demons'.

Well whatever the case, good luck to you. Whether you go civi or mil med, you should be proud of your prior service, and you should be particularly proud of the fact that you were ground-pounding and got shot at (something most of us never experience). I was a line member of the military too, but I'm always quick to point out I was on a safe and cushy tin-can?! (we did come close to a Iranian sub once, but that's another story).

BTW, after you become a doctor (through whatever route you choose), you can still work with troops back home (through various volunteer organizations). You need not be a military doctor per sae. I'm sure they'd love to have you.

peace be with you and good luck!

BTW, I like your definition of hell--getting shot at in the cold mountains of the CENTCOM AOR--a little bit better than Galo's definition. So excuse him when he talks about his own personal "hell"; he tends to be dramatic. "Hell" for Galo entails a 5 year stint at an Air Force base in Nebraska. Calling that "hell" is like me complaining about the weather in San Diego!:laugh:
 
There is a lot going on here it seems. So I figured I would give my perspective too, why not.

I joined the Army right out of high school in 2000. I Decided I was going to figured out my direction there. I served in the Special Operations Command and jumped into Iraq, and four combat deployments later, I found my direction in life. It was not until I had some intimate experiences with the loss of close friends that I decided to be a doctor. I can state that (as the question was asked if I ever killed anyone in my interview) the loss one experiences in combat is the same regardless of what side of the weapon you are on, part of you still dies inside, at least it was for me.

So in regards to where I will end up, (and in relation to this thread) I feel the need to at least be in the military so that I can recalibrate myself and my past that seems to bear the weight of my agony. It is a personal issue for me to change the the personal mission that I had, helping and not killing. I never "drank the conservative Kool-Aide" that we were ever fighting for freedom, I more or less "rocked the proverbial boat."

In all really, make the decision what fits you all. For me, I have skeletons in my memory that I need to keep at bay through service, even though service created those skeletons in the first place. But more importantly, make an informed decision......its your duty

3-75 Ranger out.......

Thank you for your service. The way I'm reading your post, it sounds like you are in the process of applying for med school, is this correct? If so, your commitment to continued service is admirable, but is there a reason that you have to make this particular commitment right now?

You will find many many many fulfilling opportunities to help people in your medical career, especially in medical school and residency training. Committing to the military now is assuming you will feel the same way about things seven or more years from now when you are a fully trained physician. You may find that you have dealt with some of those skeletons by then and now have a somewhat different plan for your life then you did half a decade ago, but now you still have your military commitment.

There are many ways to serve and serve with our soldiers without signing away a good deal of your own personal freedom. For instance, you could specialize in ortho or rehab medicine and commit your practice to serving injured veterans. This would not require signing a service contract and you could still make a great positive impact in many servicemen and women's lives.

Anyway, something to think about.
 
BTW, I like your definition of hell--getting shot at in the cold mountains of the CENTCOM AOR--a little bit better than Galo's definition. So excuse him when he talks about his own personal "hell"; he tends to be dramatic. "Hell" for Galo entails a 5 year stint at an Air Force base in Nebraska. Calling that "hell" is like me complaining about the weather in San Diego!:laugh:
A dude writes in to share the rough experiences he had in his time in combat. Folks commiserate with the challenges he's facing now that he's gotten home. But you have to slide in yet another insult in your little grudge against Galo? Low class, man.
 
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