Interesting thread comparing Carib. SGU to DO

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DrFraud

DrFraud

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I have something funny to share with you. I recently was questioning a study described on ValueMD posted on the SGU forum, and the Dean of admissions posted the following in an attempt to discredit me....

"- and you exhort your readers, once again, to look at DO schools. (Your unflagging and persistent interest in DO schools is so strong, it leads us to wonder about your vested interests). "

this was in responce to my statement "For applicants looking at SGU and other comparable program or even going the DO route, it might be important to give this information....."

I couln't stop laughing when I read this. How desperate are they. Me of all people accused of this. Anyone here who knows my posting hx knows I am not like this.

Here is a link to the thread.
http://www.valuemd.com/st-georges-university-school-medicine/208181-sgu-does-again.html

ROFL
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Ironic, isn't it, that she thinks you are siding with DO medical schools. Obviously she hasn't encountered all your other threads in which you insist on calling DOs as 'osteopaths' and refusing to label our education as 'medical school', but only wanting to call it 'osteopathic school'. Just interesting to say the least.

But on the other hand, kudos to SGU for their high pass rates. I'm still happier to be at a DO school (and thank the excellent and kind Caribbean students, now residents, who advised me at the time to choose DO over SGU, even though they themselves had gone the Caribbean route). But I'm still very pleased to know that students at SGU are doing well. It's important for prospective students to have this info when trying to decide on which schools to pursue.
 
Oh look! Another pissing conest on the interwebz!
 
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DrFraud said:
ROFL
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Not that you need to be told this but you made a very nuanced and well worded argument. The dean over there also made a good response, but did directly avoid the points you brought up (because, i assume, it would not be flattering to release the exact numbers you asked for or admit that a school by school, rather than country by country may not be so advantageous).

After that point though, all the posters on there completely misrepresented your points and twisted them so that it was a straw man they argued against. Ridiculous. Their counter arguments don't even address the issues you actually brought up!
 
It's honestly shocking to watch both:

1. Your (very valid) points just FLY over the heads of the majority of individuals in that thread

2. The 'facts' presented from the respective admission representatives. As they say, 'there are three types of lies - lies, damn lies, and statistics.'
 
It's pretty standard PR by their folks -- find a point that is impressive, and beat it to death. Twist it, bend it, shake it, but keep the same underlying point (87%!). Ignore all conflicting data, say things like "Well it depends who you ask" and only accept your own data as valid. They have a vested interest in promoting their school, and the Caribbean option, and in turn discrediting osteopathic schools (who are their main competitors).

Sure, they have a great first-time pass rate, and match people into good programs. You really can't deny that. But the true test (and you may have mentioned this in that thread, I didn't read all the way through the comments) would be comparing the pass rate/match statistics of those who enter with those who leave. If 200 students start at Hopkins in 2004, 188 pass, 187 match, and 10 dropped/failed out, that's excellent, but not 100%. If 200 students start at LECOM, 180 pass, 180 match, 20 drop/fail out, that's 100% passing + matching, but you question why 10% didn't finish.

If 500 start at SGU, 250 pass, 250 match and 250 drop/fail out, you can publish that 100% of first time test takers passed, but it's deceptive. The goal of a medical school should be to finish what you started, not just do the best with what's left.
 
In my volunteering program, we have guest speakers come to our meetings to give talks about various healthcare career options. Last year we had this lady from Ross University (The Asian lady, if you are from California you might know who I am talking about, she does all the recruitment and interview on the West Coast). After the talk when most of the volunteer had left, one of the members from the leadership team asked her the "DO or Carib" question, she said: "If you could go to a US-based medical school, by all means, do it."
 
DocEspana said:
Not that you need to be told this but you made a very nuanced and well worded argument. The dean over there also made a good response, but did directly avoid the points you brought up (because, i assume, it would not be flattering to release the exact numbers you asked for or admit that a school by school, rather than country by country may not be so advantageous).

After that point though, all the posters on there completely misrepresented your points and twisted them so that it was a straw man they argued against. Ridiculous. Their counter arguments don't even address the issues you actually brought up!
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I agree with you 100 %.
 
These people are idiots...and that dean is an ass...perfect combination.

In her response to Dr.Fraud
SGU Admissions Dean said:
...Generally the discussions here are heartfelt and genuine - a discourse of humans interested in medical education. Your recent posts smack of disingenuousness (echoing your name)....
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she referred to them as humans...as opposed to what? animals?

.jerk.
 
In a premed post-MCAT freak out, I started to fill out their app but stopped. They are ruthless in their attempt to recruit. I received at least 6 phone calls and 2 giant info packets, along with a bunch of leaflets. I believe I got something from them in the mail the other day lol. I suggest one NEVER signs up for anything from them (learn from my stupidity).
 
OrangeRoost said:
In a premed post-MCAT freak out, I started to fill out their app but stopped. They are ruthless in their attempt to recruit. I received at least 6 phone calls and 2 giant info packets, along with a bunch of leaflets. I believe I got something from them in the mail the other day lol. I suggest one NEVER signs up for anything from them (learn from my stupidity).
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I wonder if they send stuff to everyone who takes the MCAT or just those within a certain range of scores.
 
NurWollen said:
I wonder if they send stuff to everyone who takes the MCAT or just those within a certain range of scores.
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well if i understand it correctly, it was only recently that they raised they're average matric mcat to about 26 or so they say. But before that, i'd imagine they're mcat/gpa stats were rather low.

hell, just a few years ago, a 23 or 24 was competitive for most DO schools, carib had to be well below that. then again, i'm just speculating so don't anyone go trying to bite my head off.
 
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Skippygonenuts said:
well if i understand it correctly, it was only recently that they raised they're average matric mcat to about 26 or so they say. But before that, i'd imagine they're mcat/gpa stats were rather low.

hell, just a few years ago, a 23 or 24 was competitive for most DO schools, carib had to be well below that. then again, i'm just speculating so don't anyone go trying to bite my head off.
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The average for most of the Caribbean schools (even the "top" 4) is a 22. But remember they don't require a balanced score. A girl I worked with got into AUC with a 21 8-5-8. Also, the established DO schools like CCOM/MSUCOM/UMDNJ-SOM/etc. have MCATs of 27+ now.
 
Touro-CA has an avg score of 29 as well which is a bit surprising since it isn't considered one of the "top" schools.
 
That forum at valueMD makes me gassy.

I wouldn't be surprised if DMU is up there. Paradoxically two of what I considered the better schools in the AOA, KCOM and PCOM, had some of the lowest MCAT averages of the osteopathic medical schools. My program is pretty close to one of those schools and we have grads from there running around all over the place, so maybe it does not matter too much.
 
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They should include the attrition rate and how many students get one of their top 3 residency choices.
 
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You know, there is all this doom-and-gloom about DO's being squeezed out of ACGME residencies due to increased MD class sizes. However, we see average MCAT scores for DO schools rising ever closer to those of MD schools, and I can't help but wonder if all the aforementioned doom-and-gloom is nothing but smoke and mirrors. It seems more and more people are realizing that DO=MD and applying accordingly. If that is the case, and issues with residencies etc might just go out the window.
 
the whole MD/DO stigma is still slightly there with the older docs...but it has gone down drastically and is on a steady decline.

However I think it's the MD gunners who are in med school now who will be ignorant enough in 10 years and refuse to believe that us DO's got as good of an education as they did, if not better.

luckily applicants are starting to recognize DO for what it's worth and are applying accordingly. The averages are now on par with several US MD schools and they seem to only be increasing.

Just imagine what the pre-allo / pre-osteo forum will be like 10 years from now...
 
NurWollen said:
You know, there is all this doom-and-gloom about DO's being squeezed out of ACGME residencies due to increased MD class sizes. However, we see average MCAT scores for DO schools rising ever closer to those of MD schools, and I can't help but wonder if all the aforementioned doom-and-gloom is nothing but smoke and mirrors. It seems more and more people are realizing that DO=MD and applying accordingly. If that is the case, and issues with residencies etc might just go out the window.
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It's not smoke and mirrors ... it's just a simple numbers game. Number of students continues increasing, but the number of residency programs stays the same. Unfortunately, this is an area where the AOA could really step up and make DO schools even more attractive by opening up as many new residencies as possible and letting it be known to future applicants that they are the ones expanding the number of residency programs.

Keep in mind though that increasing numbers work both ways. Not only will it be tougher for DO students to get spots, but it's going to be tougher for US MD as well. Again, it's just a numbers game. However, I really do think MD expansion isn't happening on the scale that they wanted it to (it seems like a lot of new schools are delayed/on hiatus due to the economy), so who knows how doom and gloom it will really be. My guess is that it will just keep getting more competitive.

Furthermore ... creating as many residency spots as possible may not be the best thing overall. It would be awful to see the market/degree devalued because there are simply too many grads. Personally, I don't think the examples quite correlate, but look at what's happening in Law and then compare this to a competitive field in medicine with a LOW number of residency spots like dermatology.

Skippygonenuts said:
the whole MD/DO stigma is still slightly there with the older docs...but it has gone down drastically and is on a steady decline.

However I think it's the MD gunners who are in med school now who will be ignorant enough in 10 years and refuse to believe that us DO's got as good of an education as they did, if not better.

luckily applicants are starting to recognize DO for what it's worth and are applying accordingly. The averages are now on par with several US MD schools and they seem to only be increasing.

Just imagine what the pre-allo / pre-osteo forum will be like 10 years from now...
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I think the stats being equal really depends on how quickly new schools pop up and what the entering stats are like. However, I agree that things are getting much more level and it's really interesting to see the difference between an MD/DO discussion in the Allopathic forums versus the Pre-Allo forums. I feel like the people who give a crap in Allo (which are quite few) just look very immature and most of the time pre-Allos who come in and make DO quips are quickly shown the door.
 
JaggerPlate said:
It's not smoke and mirrors ... it's just a simple numbers game. Number of students continues increasing, but the number of residency programs stays the same. Unfortunately, this is an area where the AOA could really step up and make DO schools even more attractive by opening up as many new residencies as possible and letting it be known to future applicants that they are the ones expanding the number of residency programs. .
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Total "heard from someone with a vested interest" here, but apparently north jersey and NYC area are massively increasing AOA approved residencies in the next few years.

DME from a series of New Jersey hospitals said recently (and this has been known to be in the works for years) that he has worked out a gigantic number of residency spots between his two hospitals where a 350 bed hospital that has never before had residents will be hosting the majority of the spots and some will be split with a 300 bed teaching hospital nearby. The number he cited was preposterously large, so I wont embarrass myself by quoting it here, but he appears to be fully approved by the AOA to add a crapton of specialties, and a bunch in competitive specialities (derm and optho were both in the list of ones he said he had full approval for already).

His implication was that he'll be getting it up 2012 unless something goes wrong, and that he's one of a few hospitals in the area that are going to be getting a big influx of new AOA residency spots. AOA may have realized that two DO schools in one metro area probably means you gotta up your presence in training there.
 
NurWollen said:
You know, there is all this doom-and-gloom about DO's being squeezed out of ACGME residencies due to increased MD class sizes. However, we see average MCAT scores for DO schools rising ever closer to those of MD schools, and I can't help but wonder if all the aforementioned doom-and-gloom is nothing but smoke and mirrors. It seems more and more people are realizing that DO=MD and applying accordingly. If that is the case, and issues with residencies etc might just go out the window.
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Not really, MCAT scores are steadily increasing at allo institutions, too. Even the 'worst' private allo schools seem to average at least a 32 for their 2014 classes
 
Brachyury said:
Not really, MCAT scores are steadily increasing at allo institutions, too. Even the 'worst' private allo schools seem to average at least a 32 for their 2014 classes
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Wayne State is a 30. Also, the allo schools are increase, that's true. But they're increasing ever slowly.
 
Brachyury said:
Not really, MCAT scores are steadily increasing at allo institutions, too. Even the 'worst' private allo schools seem to average at least a 32 for their 2014 classes
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While i'm not going to check a giant sample of places to prove my point... that has to be garbage. Harvards current average MCAT is a 33. Its been that way for years. Robert Woods Johnson, one of the more competitive med schools in the north east is at 30.6 average MCAT.

Two application cycles ago when I applied I was told by everyone that the mean MCAT was 29 or 30 depending on where you applied and among the schools I applied to, that was true (I didnt apply to harvard, columbia, cornell, JHU. I did apply to all the 'good' ones in the northeast though). Looking really quickly at a list of allopathic schools on eduers.com shows that while a few creep into 34 average territory and one that freakishly has a 37.5 average (washington university @ st louis), almost all of them fall between 29-31 with some skew towards 31.
 
elftown said:
Temple
Matriculation in 2010: 31.22
http://www.temple.edu/medicine/admissions/entering_profile.htm

Drexel
Matriculation in 2009: 30.6
Matriculation in 2010: 30.3
http://www.drexelmed.edu/Home/AcademicPrograms/MDProgram/StudentDemographics.aspx

Not only does your "at least a 32" seem quite inflated, but it appears some of their numbers are actually going down. :smuggrin:
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You're right, I was off; sorry about that. When I thought of the 'less' competitive private schools, the ones that came to mind had around a 32, although several of the schools are below a 32

Tufts 32.2 http://www.tufts.edu/med/admissions/md/classprofile.html
Jefferson 31.6 http://www.jefferson.edu/jmc/admissions/faq.cfm
USC 32 http://keck.usc.edu/About/Administrative_Offices/Office_of_MD_Admissions/Academic_Requirements.aspx
Saint Louis University 32.56 (class of 2012) http://medschool.slu.edu/admissions/index.php?page=how-to-apply
Tulane 32 http://tulane.edu/som/dean/upload/Dean-Newsletter-Fall-2010-FINAL-2.pdf
Georgetown 31.9 http://som.georgetown.edu/about/prospectus/admissioninformation/
Creighton 30 (class of 2013) http://medschool.creighton.edu/fileadmin/user/medicine/Departments/Admissions/CUMC_Viewbook.pdf
Boston University 33 http://www.bumc.bu.edu/admissions/welcome/classprofile/
Loma Linda 31 http://www.llu.edu/medicine/admissions/faqs.page??
New York Medical College 31 (no year given) http://www.nymc.edu/Academics/SchoolOfMedicine/Admissions/FrequentlyAskedQuestions.html
Rush 31.3 http://www.rushu.rush.edu/servlet/Satellite?MetaAttrName=meta_university&ParentId=1144343940257&ParentType=RushUnivLevel2Page&c=content_block&cid=1191597747056&level1-p=2&level1-pp=1142960797000&level1-ppp=1142960797000&pagename=Rush%2Fcontent_block%2FContentBlockDetail
Loyola 32.1 http://www.stritch.luc.edu/node/55
Medical College of Wisconsin 31.8 http://www.mcw.edu/FileLibrary/User/pconfer/Admissions/2010ClassProfile.pdf
Wake Forest 31.5 http://www.wfubmc.edu/School/Class-Profile.htm
Albert Einstein 32 http://www.einstein.yu.edu/admissions/page.aspx?id=26685&ekmensel=15074e5e_1106_1116_btnlink



And to the person who said that Harvard had a 33 average, it's actually a 35.6 http://hms.harvard.edu/admissions/default.asp?page=statistics
 
DocEspana said:
Total "heard from someone with a vested interest" here, but apparently north jersey and NYC area are massively increasing AOA approved residencies in the next few years.

DME from a series of New Jersey hospitals said recently (and this has been known to be in the works for years) that he has worked out a gigantic number of residency spots between his two hospitals where a 350 bed hospital that has never before had residents will be hosting the majority of the spots and some will be split with a 300 bed teaching hospital nearby. The number he cited was preposterously large, so I wont embarrass myself by quoting it here, but he appears to be fully approved by the AOA to add a crapton of specialties, and a bunch in competitive specialities (derm and optho were both in the list of ones he said he had full approval for already).

His implication was that he'll be getting it up 2012 unless something goes wrong, and that he's one of a few hospitals in the area that are going to be getting a big influx of new AOA residency spots. AOA may have realized that two DO schools in one metro area probably means you gotta up your presence in training there.
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Amazing. I know it's just 'what you've heard,' but made my day just to hear it! I really do think the AOA is in a unique position to set up situations like this one and really attract some excellent DO applicants because of it. I think that even the most pre-allo gunner in the NJ area would give DO schools a thought if he/she knew that the big medical center down the street hosted the AOA ROAD residencies of their dreams. :thumbup:

The exclusive AOA residencies (fair or unfair) should be a huge asset and I think beefing them up is an excellent idea.
 
The AOA match is tomorrow, so we will see how much the AOA residency system has grown over the last year. Data should be posted at 12:00pm at www.natmatch.com.
 
A new AOA approved Orthopedic Surgery residency is opening up this July in South Jersey.
 
So I never go on value md and just read the thread- wow it got me kind of heated! Dr Fraud, you were extremely professional and respectful, on top of bringing up extremely valid arguments. I felt the responses you got (aside from the dean) were insanely childish (well I suppose for a 2 year old they would be rather sophisticated, but thats about it!) It really blew my mind that they came from an adult, let alone a medical student!
 
JaggerPlate said:
Amazing. I know it's just 'what you've heard,' but made my day just to hear it! I really do think the AOA is in a unique position to set up situations like this one and really attract some excellent DO applicants because of it. I think that even the most pre-allo gunner in the NJ area would give DO schools a thought if he/she knew that the big medical center down the street hosted the AOA ROAD residencies of their dreams. :thumbup:

The exclusive AOA residencies (fair or unfair) should be a huge asset and I think beefing them up is an excellent idea.
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NYCOM is always sending out emails about new affiliated residency programs, etc, so it's not so far-fetched that more are on the way from them as well as UMDNJ. I'm not really sure about Touro, not as an insult, I just have no idea what kind of affiliations they have by comparison. All I know is that NYCOM has an enormous network and well, UMDNJ is UMDNJ - a huge university system.

example, from some time around the end of 2010:
The American Osteopathic Association has approved a new NYCOM-sponsored dually accredited Internal Medicine Residency at Jersey City Medical Center. The program is approved for twelve residents. Douglas Ratner, M.D. will serve as the Interim Program Director. He also serves as the Program Director for their ACGME Internal Medicine Residency. Their Director of Medical Education is Martin Levine, D.O., who is a member of the American Osteopathic Association's Board of Trustees.
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Brachyury said:
You're right, I was off; sorry about that. When I thought of the 'less' competitive private schools, the ones that came to mind had around a 32, although several of the schools are below a 32

Tufts 32.2 http://www.tufts.edu/med/admissions/md/classprofile.html
Jefferson 31.6 http://www.jefferson.edu/jmc/admissions/faq.cfm
USC 32 http://keck.usc.edu/About/Administrative_Offices/Office_of_MD_Admissions/Academic_Requirements.aspx
Saint Louis University 32.56 (class of 2012) http://medschool.slu.edu/admissions/index.php?page=how-to-apply
Tulane 32 http://tulane.edu/som/dean/upload/Dean-Newsletter-Fall-2010-FINAL-2.pdf
Georgetown 31.9 http://som.georgetown.edu/about/prospectus/admissioninformation/
Creighton 30 (class of 2013) http://medschool.creighton.edu/fileadmin/user/medicine/Departments/Admissions/CUMC_Viewbook.pdf
Boston University 33 http://www.bumc.bu.edu/admissions/welcome/classprofile/
Loma Linda 31 http://www.llu.edu/medicine/admissions/faqs.page??
New York Medical College 31 (no year given) http://www.nymc.edu/Academics/SchoolOfMedicine/Admissions/FrequentlyAskedQuestions.html
Rush 31.3 http://www.rushu.rush.edu/servlet/Satellite?MetaAttrName=meta_university&ParentId=1144343940257&ParentType=RushUnivLevel2Page&c=content_block&cid=1191597747056&level1-p=2&level1-pp=1142960797000&level1-ppp=1142960797000&pagename=Rush%2Fcontent_block%2FContentBlockDetail
Loyola 32.1 http://www.stritch.luc.edu/node/55
Medical College of Wisconsin 31.8 http://www.mcw.edu/FileLibrary/User/pconfer/Admissions/2010ClassProfile.pdf
Wake Forest 31.5 http://www.wfubmc.edu/School/Class-Profile.htm
Albert Einstein 32 http://www.einstein.yu.edu/admissions/page.aspx?id=26685&ekmensel=15074e5e_1106_1116_btnlink



And to the person who said that Harvard had a 33 average, it's actually a 35.6 http://hms.harvard.edu/admissions/default.asp?page=statistics
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It interesting to look at these class profiles - thanks for compiling them! :)
 
Brigade4Radiant said:
SGU has a 27 MCAT and a 3.4 GPA which is close to a lot of the upper tier DO schools.


http://www.sgu.edu/about-sgu/medical-students-enrollment-statistics.html
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Somebody in an older SGU thread demonstrated how, like almost all numbers coming from their organization, this was doctored. Apparently, it's only the MCAT/GPA average for a certain sect of students (I don't remember the criteria) and the average was actually like a 3.3/25-26. It used to be in some PDF on the website with the 3.4/27 number on the official admissions thing, but I'm pretty sure the PDF was pulled down.

DO > Caribbean. Still ... and always.
 
I think its ridiculous how those SGU students don't seen what Fraud is trying to say. They all think hes attacking SGU. But... how can you screen out who can or cannot take the USMLE?? And in addition to that, you do a study and post up the pass rates of those screened students. Its like if we screened the top 50% of the class and then published their pass rates. No **** its gonna be high as hell most of the time.
 
christina30 said:
NYCOM is always sending out emails about new affiliated residency programs, etc, so it's not so far-fetched that more are on the way from them as well as UMDNJ. I'm not really sure about Touro, not as an insult, I just have no idea what kind of affiliations they have by comparison. All I know is that NYCOM has an enormous network and well, UMDNJ is UMDNJ - a huge university system.

example, from some time around the end of 2010:
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haha no insult taken. We bring stuff to the table though and they are looking to expand as well. We have St. Johns (you know, the only place to go for AOA derm or optho in the north east), Staten Island University (a level III trauma center looking to expand its AOA residencies) and prob about 8 hospitals on the hudson river in jersey. If the DME is to be believed he's adding about 200 residency spots spread out over 3 hospitals in a year. To be fair the three hospitals are huge and have no residents right now but are affiliated with Mt. Sinai so they have residents from there rolling by all the time... so they're finally getting their own. His number sounds crazy, but given the size of the places I could imagine 200 being *possible* at least.
 
christina30 said:
example, from some time around the end of 2010:

The American Osteopathic Association has approved a new NYCOM-sponsored dually accredited Internal Medicine Residency at Jersey City Medical Center. The program is approved for twelve residents. Douglas Ratner, M.D. will serve as the Interim Program Director. He also serves as the Program Director for their ACGME Internal Medicine Residency. Their Director of Medical Education is Martin Levine, D.O., who is a member of the American Osteopathic Association's Board of Trustees.
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hahhahaha you know i didnt even fully read this. :p you know very well what we offer. Jersey City is a Touro affiliated hospital. We got the same e-mail because our assistant dean is Martin Levine. hahahaha. Thats our program! Why does NYCOM say they're sponsoring it? I forgot the acronym for it, but we have the "we funded the residency and the research credit by those residents is filed with our university" thing. hahah that sentence would make more sense if i remmeber the acronym. It begins with an "I" I think.

either way, i'm glad to see we share that place in common!
 
DocEspana said:
hahhahaha you know i didnt even fully read this. :p you know very well what we offer. Jersey City is a Touro affiliated hospital. We got the same e-mail because our assistant dean is Martin Levine. hahahaha. Thats our program! Why does NYCOM say they're sponsoring it? I forgot the acronym for it, but we have the "we funded the residency and the research credit by those residents is filed with our university" thing. hahah that sentence would make more sense if i remmeber the acronym. It begins with an "I" I think.

either way, i'm glad to see we share that place in common!
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We probably share a lot of places in common - the NYCOMEC system has probably somewhere around 30+ affiliates in New York/New Jersey. There's bound to be overlap with the other NY schools.

And fyi, St. Barnabas Hospital in the Bronx, one of NYCOM's main affiliates, offers an AOA dermatology residency.
 
DocEspana said:
hahhahaha you know i didnt even fully read this. :p you know very well what we offer. Jersey City is a Touro affiliated hospital. We got the same e-mail because our assistant dean is Martin Levine. hahahaha. Thats our program! Why does NYCOM say they're sponsoring it? I forgot the acronym for it, but we have the "we funded the residency and the research credit by those residents is filed with our university" thing. hahah that sentence would make more sense if i remmeber the acronym. It begins with an "I" I think.

either way, i'm glad to see we share that place in common!
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Jersey city is also a NYCOM affiliate along with pretty much every north Jersey hospital. Dr. Levine is pretty high up at NYCOM too and teaches classes for us as well... NYCOM says they are sponsoring it because they are, its part of the NYCOMEC system. The hospital signed the program over to NYCOM. It cant be your program if its not signed into your system. I mean with NYCOM having 32+ hospitals in the NYCOMEC system, and 40+ hospitals affiliated with it, (these are including used and unused programs/ hospitals) and NYCOM was there since the 70's, I believe you are actually at NYCOMs hospitals? Most of these hospitals are already signed into NYCOMEC, since before Touro-NY was created, so any residencies that are created have to be part of NYCOMEC under those contract agreements. Not that any of this maters though, NYCOM has enough hospitals that we can practically rotate anywhere, and there are always tons of left over spots. Although if we didnt have enough spots for some reason in the future, NYCOM would pull the out the NYCOMEC agreements and take over many of the spots other schools are using to rotate right now...
 
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And we are now completely off topic, lets get back to the thread topic please? Make a new thread if you want to keep discussing this...
 
NYDOC112 said:
And we are now completely off topic, lets get back to the thread topic please? Make a new thread if you want to keep discussing this...
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*ahem*.... overseas schools y u no submit transparent stats and figures?

content? (studying is slowly making me go insane. my apologies for broadcasting my stress breakdown on SDN)
 
DocEspana said:
*ahem*.... overseas schools y u no submit transparent stats and figures?

content? (studying is slowly making me go insane. my apologies for broadcasting my stress breakdown on SDN)
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LOL :laugh: Hey breaks are good, glad you can blow off the stress somewhere
 
Rather than sounding like educated professionals, the members of the SGU forum have been brainwashed, and are doing nothing but regurgitating the marketing of SGU ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

Because SGU has the ability to control who can sit for Step 1 by certifying the students, it is impossible to discern by looking at the pass rate numbers whether the schools pass rate is affected by weeding out and attrition.

It's much like trying to assess whether a patient is becoming hemodynamically unstable by just looking at BP, without also looking at heart rate and the other vitals.

For anyone considering giving the stats put out by SGU and promoted by members of the SGU forum any credibility and attending SGU, one should demand that the SGU give the complete picture and not just cherry picked data.

As many members have already highlighted here, a high pass rate can be due to 1) lots of weeding 2) fudging data 3) students doing well, or some combination, but it is impossible to tell just by looking at one number just like it is impossible to tell if a patient is hemodynamically changing just by looking at one vital sign.

If SGU was more forthcoming, and if the academics where as strong as it claims, the school would publish "For the class that began in the Fall of 2007, it began with 510 students, of which xyz studnets took step 1 within 2 years of starting, a total of abc students took step 1 from this class including those that deceled or repeated, with a first time pass rate of xx%, and a first time average score of yy%. And it would do this for each and every year for the past 4-5 years.

This is information that applicants should know when evaluating the claims in consideration of attending SGU vs. consideration of applying to alternative programs.
 
Last edited:
DrFraud said:
Rather than sounding like educated professionals, the members of the SGU forum have been brainwashed, and are doing nothing but regurgitating the marketing of SGU ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

Because SGU has the ability to control who can sit for Step 1 by certifying the students, it is impossible to discern by looking at the pass rate numbers whether the schools pass rate is affected by weeding out and attrition.

It's much like trying to assess whether a patient is becoming hemodynamically unstable by just looking at BP, without also looking at heart rate and the other vitals.

For anyone considering giving the stats put out by SGU and promoted by members of the SGU forum any credibility and attending SGU, one should demand that the SGU give the complete picture and not just cherry picked data.

As many members have already highlighted here, a high pass rate can be due to 1) lots of weeding 2) fudging data 3) students doing well, or some combination, but it is impossible to tell just by looking at one number just like it is impossible to tell if a patient is hemodynamically changing just by looking at one vital sign.

If SGU was more forthcoming, and if the academics where as strong as it claims, the school would publish "For the class that began in the Fall of 2007, it began with 510 students, of which xyz studnets took step 1 within 2 years of starting, a total of abc students took step 1 from this class including those that deceled or repeated, with a first time pass rate of xx%, and a first time average score of yy%. And it would do this for each and every year for the past 4-5 years.

This is information that applicants should know when evaluating the claims in consideration of attending SGU vs. consideration of applying to alternative programs.
Click to expand...

I heard SGU is owned by the same company that sells ExtenZe male enhancement tablets, is this true?

I don't know why you waste your energy making a logical argument with people who are not at all versed in logic.
 
FIREitUP said:
I heard SGU is owned by the same company that sells ExtenZe male enhancement tablets, is this true?
Click to expand...

Not sure if you were serious or joking, but that cracked me up to read. They def aren't owned by the same company, but I am sure BIOTAB Nutraceuticals thanks you for the proper capitalization of the brand name. As they will thank me for typing their company name AS IF I WERE SHOUTING IT!

BTW: what the hell is a nutraceutical. Is that similar to "wyngz" (if you don't know what wyngz are, you probably should google it + colbert report)
 
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