Interesting thread comparing Carib. SGU to DO

[IamaBanana]

BTW: what the hell is a nutraceutical. Is that similar to "wyngz" (if you don't know what wyngz are, you probably should google it + colbert report)

Nutraceuticals are the bastard children of drugs and herbal supplements. They exist in this weird limbo of FDA regulation short of "real" medicine but far beyond anything you would have for, say, a Gingko pill. Typically they are used in medical settings as opposed to being sold at your local GNC. EntenZe is not actually a neutraceutical any more than the stuff you would find in the health aisle at WholeFoods becuase it's really just a mixture of powdered herbs. I want to give an example but I'm having a tough time thinking up a good one.

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[christina30]

Not sure if you were serious or joking, but that cracked me up to read. They def aren't owned by the same company, but I am sure BIOTAB Nutraceuticals thanks you for the proper capitalization of the brand name. As they will thank me for typing their company name AS IF I WERE SHOUTING IT!

BTW: what the hell is a nutraceutical. Is that similar to "wyngz" (if you don't know what wyngz are, you probably should google it + colbert report)

Sounds like neuticles - those prosthetic testicles they make for neutered dogs

 

[DD214_DOC]

Why do none of them see the irony of claiming, "SGU is #1 in the Caribbean". That's like being proud you're the least ******ed kid in special ed. Oh, I guess I answered my own question.

I've worked with SGU students and residents and have NOT been impressed at all.


I bet I get an infraction for this.

 

[dbeast]

I'm not trying to stir things up here, but I mostly just curious- The hospital I work at (midsize community hospital) has a Caribbean grad working there but no DO's. Is this just coincidence or do some hospitals avoid hiring DO's but will take a Carib grad?

 

[DD214_DOC]

I'm not trying to stir things up here, but I mostly just curious- The hospital I work at (midsize community hospital) has a Caribbean grad working there but no DO's. Is this just coincidence or do some hospitals avoid hiring DO's but will take a Carib grad?

Probably just coincidence. Some areas of the country have a paucity of DOs.

 

[driftking]

I've worked with SGU students and residents and have NOT been impressed at all.

There are excellent and poor SGU students, and there are excellent and poor DO students.

 

[DrFraud]

There are excellent and poor SGU students, and there are excellent and poor DO students.

and some students are both excellent and poor

 

[taylormade2006]

My personal PCP is out of SABA and he's great, for what it's worth (not much).

 

[Postal]

My personal PCP is out of SABA and he's great, for what it's worth (not much).

Actually, my PCP went to the Carribean as well and I like him

 

[DocEspana]

Wow everyone has anecdotes about great carib PCPs.

I wonder how many of those PCPs wanted to be surgeons or a specialized internist, and settled for PCP when that was too hard to get. #lowblow #crusheddreams #ohyeshewentthere (I just found out yesterday what hashtags on twitter are, so this is leaking over)

 

[taylormade2006]

Not sure, DocEspana. I can't really think of a tactful way to ask questions like that, haha.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Wow everyone has anecdotes about great carib PCPs.

I wonder how many of those PCPs wanted to be surgeons or a specialized internist, and settled for PCP when that was too hard to get. #lowblow #crusheddreams #ohyeshewentthere (I just found out yesterday what hashtags on twitter are, so this is leaking over)

I still don't understand them, and felt like too much of a loser to google what they meant.

Care to fill me in??

 

[taylormade2006]

I still don't understand them, and felt like too much of a loser to google what they meant.

Care to fill me in??

I am urban dictionarying it as we speak.

EDIT - Here you go:

If you have been on Twitter, you may have seen a "hashtag." To put it simply, a hash tag is simply a way for people to search for tweets that have a common topic and to begin a conversation. For example, if you search on #LOST (or #Lost or #lost, because it's not case-sensitive), you'll get a list of tweets related to the TV show. What you won't get are tweets that say "I lost my wallet yesterday" because "lost" isn't preceded by the hash tag.

 

[DocEspana]

I still don't understand them, and felt like too much of a loser to google what they meant.

Care to fill me in??

pretty much what taylormade said. Its a way on twitter to identify what your tweet topic is. The less fun way to use it is to do something obvious like "#SDN" "#justinbeiber" "#LostWallets". It is much more fun to make rapid fire commentary by putting crazy hashtags and seeing if anyone else has put similar ones.

for example, Chris Paul recently tweeted about his friend getting traded to the dead end New Jersey Nets. His hashtags about that trade were #epicfail #notagoodlook #gottabekiddingme and #cmonson

 

[scpod]

Actually, my PCP went to the Carribean as well and I like him

That really is one of the problems today with healthcare. Medical schools are producing too few doctors that people like. There is a misconception that a good doctor is someone that takes a lot of time with the patient and shows a lot of caring and is well-liked. None of those things speak one iota for thei clinical decision making. That's one of the things that is driving the public toward NPs too. People seem to like them more. My sister adores the NP who prescribed Bactrim for her skin infection recently, because she might have MRSA.

Give me the nasty old doctor any day who makes me wait an hour, never looks me in the eye and smells like pee... if he knows what he's doing.

 

[Postal]

That really is one of the problems today with healthcare. Medical schools are producing too few doctors that people like. There is a misconception that a good doctor is someone that takes a lot of time with the patient and shows a lot of caring and is well-liked. None of those things speak one iota for thei clinical decision making. That's one of the things that is driving the public toward NPs too. People seem to like them more. My sister adores the NP who prescribed Bactrim for her skin infection recently, because she might have MRSA.

Give me the nasty old doctor any day who makes me wait an hour, never looks me in the eye and smells like pee... if he knows what he's doing.

1) I think my doctor knows what he's doing. But what do I know? I'm just an unsuspecting American patient.
1A.) Who's to say doctors from the Caribbean don't know what they're doing? I'm inclined to think that if they could make it through a Caribbean school (which is reputed to have little student support as opposed to American schools) then my doctor likely has the smarts to perform as a PCP in the states. I really disagree with this notion that doctors from the Caribbean aren't as good as American graduates. I will agree that Caribbean medical schools aren't as American medical schools and it really depends on the person.
2) Is it too much to ask for both ( a doctor who's super nice and knows what he's doing)?

 

[scpod]

...Is it too much to ask for both ( a doctor who's super nice and knows what he's doing)?

It's more like a fairy tale... but there actually are quite a few out there somewhere, I'm sure. Whether they come from the US or Carribean really makes little difference to me. My point is more that people tend to rate doctors higher who they like-- regardless of their clinical ability.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Eh, from my limited experience, it seems like the 'happy and talented' doctor scenario isn't as rare as some may thing. My PCP is a DO from KCOM ... he's fantastic and a sniper when it comes to diagnosing, but he also genuinely cares, talks with me for 15 minutes every time I come in, knows the name of everyone in my family (despite the fact that he's arguably the most popular FM guy in my area and has soooo many patients), etc.

However, I agree with scpod and given the choice ... I'll take the caustic, bitter smart doc who treats me like poo over the one who can't diagnose for ish, but makes up for it in spunk and hugs.

 

[Postal]

My point is more that people tend to rate doctors higher who they like-- regardless of their clinical ability.

Oh yeah, this is totally probably true. It's easier to forgive a guy who screwed up your diagnosis if he has a caring attitude.

 

[JaggerPlate]

So I guess it's 'be good, get good or' ... be nice???

 

[denco88]

Nutraceuticals are the bastard children of drugs and herbal supplements. They exist in this weird limbo of FDA regulation short of "real" medicine but far beyond anything you would have for, say, a Gingko pill. Typically they are used in medical settings as opposed to being sold at your local GNC. EntenZe is not actually a neutraceutical any more than the stuff you would find in the health aisle at WholeFoods becuase it's really just a mixture of powdered herbs. I want to give an example but I'm having a tough time thinking up a good one.

I work with nutraceuticals in a lab... example, callistephin, which is a chemical (antioxidant) in strawberries that give them their rich, red color, that has been shown to have neuroprotective properties.

 

[TiB77]

I've been accepted to a caribbean school but still keeping a positive outlook on the US schools I applied to. SGU gives 30 days to confirm enrollment/reserve a seat which I did after submitting $1000. I did this to have at least one option in the end. Does anyone know or has anyone withdrawn their seat at a Caribbean school after reserving a seat to go to a US school when accepted? Both school start in August, and I don't mind losing the $1000 though its a lot of money to go to a US school. Any help is much appreciated.

 

[87DO15]

I've been accepted to a caribbean school but still keeping a positive outlook on the US schools I applied to. SGU gives 30 days to confirm enrollment/reserve a seat which I did after submitting $1000. I did this to have at least one option in the end. Does anyone know or has anyone withdrawn their seat at a Caribbean school after reserving a seat to go to a US school when accepted? Both school start in August, and I don't mind losing the $1000 though its a lot of money to go to a US school. Any help is much appreciated.

I know SGU has a few deadlines requiring you to pay $1K, $5K, then the rest. I imagine if you just don't pay the remaining amount, they'll just withdraw you. The deposit isn't binding, it's just to hold your seat should you decide to go.

 

[Postal]

I've been accepted to a caribbean school but still keeping a positive outlook on the US schools I applied to. SGU gives 30 days to confirm enrollment/reserve a seat which I did after submitting $1000. I did this to have at least one option in the end. Does anyone know or has anyone withdrawn their seat at a Caribbean school after reserving a seat to go to a US school when accepted? Both school start in August, and I don't mind losing the $1000 though its a lot of money to go to a US school. Any help is much appreciated.

People do this all the time. I know someone who got accepted to a U.S. school the day before she was supposed to leave for the Caribbean.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Wow everyone has anecdotes about great carib PCPs.

I wonder how many of those PCPs wanted to be surgeons or a specialized internist, and settled for PCP when that was too hard to get. #lowblow #crusheddreams #ohyeshewentthere (I just found out yesterday what hashtags on twitter are, so this is leaking over)

You do know people say the same thing about D.O right? SGU is an ok school not the best but it is way better than the other Caribbean schools. If you are from Cali I can easily see why SGU would be an option.

 

[JaggerPlate]

You do know people say the same thing about D.O right? SGU is an ok school not the best but it is way better than the other Caribbean schools. If you are from Cali I can easily see why SGU would be an option.

From CA ... think SGU and any Caribbean school should be a last ditch option for people who were unable to obtain a spot at a US school.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

From CA ... think SGU and any Caribbean school should be a last ditch option for people who were unable to obtain a spot at a US school.

No mostly they should just try at SGU.

http://www.sgu.edu/about-sgu/medical-students-enrollment-statistics.html

There posted stats are not that bad.

SGU is a last ditch spot but it isn't that bad and its posted avg is higher than some D.O schools.

I said it is a decent option if you are from Cali since getting into medical school there is HARD

 

[DocEspana]

You do know people say the same thing about D.O right? SGU is an ok school not the best but it is way better than the other Caribbean schools. If you are from Cali I can easily see why SGU would be an option.

The ones who do are dense. I've shown statistics before that in many fields (I haven't found an exception yet, but I also have mostly stuck to surgical specialties) DOs match at rates equivalent to MDs. People forget we make up only 11% of residency applicants in most programs. While I can't go into everyone's head and read their thoughts, I can say that the tons of DO radiologist, opthomologists, anesthesiologist, dermatologist and orthopedic surgeons would prob disagree that they are forced into FM/Peds by their educational location.

On the other hand you'll be hard pressed to find many IMGs in anything but FM/Peds/IM/Gen Surg. And in the last ones case, its often not categorical.

No mostly they should just try at SGU.

http://www.sgu.edu/about-sgu/medical-students-enrollment-statistics.html

There posted stats are not that bad.

SGU is a last ditch spot but it isn't that bad and its posted avg is higher than some D.O schools.

I said it is a decent option if you are from Cali since getting into medical school there is HARD

Their posted stats are for the students who they allow to take the USMLE. Its no secret that they prune approximately 40% (most estimates are 2 or 3% higher, but i round down) of their class out in the pre-clinical years. 60% of the class at SGU is not allowed to take the USMLE at first 'qualification' with 2/3 of that 60% leaving or being told to leave before they can re-qualify to take it. (thus leaving 60% who do eventually take it and 40% who pay in full and are booted at some point before that). If only the top 60% of your class took the boards, and 1/3 of that top 60% had to do an extra year of pure board prep onto of it all... well i'd hope they'd do well.

I have a lot of respect for IMGs who make it out of the system. But I have nothing but negative feelings towards the system itself with every new thing I learn about it.

 

[JaggerPlate]

No mostly they should just try at SGU.

http://www.sgu.edu/about-sgu/medical-students-enrollment-statistics.html

There posted stats are not that bad.

SGU is a last ditch spot but it isn't that bad and its posted avg is higher than some D.O schools.

I said it is a decent option if you are from Cali since getting into medical school there is HARD

Like Espana said ... their data is full of lies, and the match lists are blatantly doctored when actual broken down. Do a few searches in these forums and you'll find all the relevant information. And yes ... it's very difficult to get into CA schools, but that doesn't make SGU a good option. It just means that you'll have to be smart in the way you apply to OOS schools or hope from some random CA love.

I don't have the energy to have this discussion for the 10,000th time, but the Caribbean simply isn't a wise option. Ask anyone who's graduated from there and matched ... they will tell you the same thing. 25 years ago, it was no big deal. Today, with DO schools expanding rapidly, MD schools opening up and increasing class sizes, the NRMP essentially doing away with pre-matching and changing the scramble, and the number of residency positions staying the same, it's simply very, very risky and shouldn't be touted as a decent option because CA schools or hard to get into or because THEIR OWN self-reported stats look 'decent.'

I'm not going to respond any further. Again, if you're interested ... do a search and I can all but guarantee I've written a novella about this identical topic in one of the results that pops up.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

The ones who do are dense. I've shown statistics before that in many fields (I haven't found an exception yet, but I also have mostly stuck to surgical specialties) DOs match at rates equivalent to MDs. People forget we make up only 11% of residency applicants in most programs. While I can't go into everyone's head and read their thoughts, I can say that the tons of DO radiologist, opthomologists, anesthesiologist, dermatologist and orthopedic surgeons would prob disagree that they are forced into FM/Peds by their educational location.

On the other hand you'll be hard pressed to find many IMGs in anything but FM/Peds/IM/Gen Surg. And in the last ones case, its often not categorical.



Their posted stats are for the students who they allow to take the USMLE. Its no secret that they prune approximately 40% (most estimates are 2 or 3% higher, but i round down) of their class out in the pre-clinical years. 60% of the class at SGU is not allowed to take the USMLE at first 'qualification' with 2/3 of that 60% leaving or being told to leave before they can re-qualify to take it. (thus leaving 60% who do eventually take it and 40% who pay in full and are booted at some point before that). If only the top 60% of your class took the boards, and 1/3 of that top 60% had to do an extra year of pure board prep onto of it all... well i'd hope they'd do well.

I have a lot of respect for IMGs who make it out of the system. But I have nothing but negative feelings towards the system itself with every new thing I learn about it.

Can I see some data? I think you are confusing Ross with SGU. There is no way 40% of the class is booted considering the number of people who graduate. Last year, St. George's graduated 640. Just by going by the numbers of people who graduate on time the number cant be more than 10%-15%. Also many train in New York which is why NY medschools are trying to get IMG ineligible to train there. Sure it is way harder to match into competitive specialties but only like 40% of a regular med class will get into non primary care.

That being said Im not saying SGU>DO you just have to understand that MD/DO is competitive.
Now the other Caribbean schools are horrible with pass rates of 50%.

http://4medschool.blogspot.com/

This blog should be required reading for people considering Caribbean.

H

 

[DocEspana]

Can I see some data? I think you are confusing Ross with SGU. There is no way 40% of the class is booted considering the number of people who graduate. Last year, St. George's graduated 640. Just by going by the numbers of people who graduate on time the number cant be more than 10%-15%. Also many train in New York which is why NY medschools are trying to get IMG ineligible to train there. Sure it is way harder to match into competitive specialties but only like 40% of a regular med class will get into non primary care.

That being said Im not saying SGU>DO you just have to understand that MD/DO is competitive.
Now the other Caribbean schools are horrible with pass rates of 50%.

http://4medschool.blogspot.com/

This blog should be required reading for people considering Caribbean.

H

I wrote the legislation being brought forward in NY and the national level that examines the educational systems of SGU, Ross, Saba and AUC and suggests alternate ways for them to participate in the medical education system without displacing as many american students. Uncovering all that data they dont want to come to light was a big part of it. So, yes, I'm 100% sure I'm talking about St. George's. Their enrollment is measured at "900+" and leaked student attendance documents show 1020 (ish. I'm going off memory right now rather than going through my giant folder of photocopied stuff to find this) students in 2008.

No one is a bigger diploma mill than Ross who tries to hide how big of a cut-down they have by having two campuses with entirely different stats until they have cut down the unwanted students and merge the stats. I will give you that SGU isnt anything like that. I will also say that SGU definitely makes the most respected students. But the issue is that they are not *that* much better than Ross given the large amount of people they still esoterically cut. In that one sense AUC and Saba are much better, enrolling about what they graduate.

as for proof. You gotta give me a day or two. I have to host these things to show them. Everything I've gotten in this particular vein would *not* go into an official legislation unless i wanted it to be killed on the floor for being antagonistic to the offshore schools. (and frankly, some of it is inadmissible as I could never get these schools to release official copies to me, but I trust my sources). As such I haven't found the need to upload them for my legislation, but I have collected them along the way. Since they come from photocopies of internal documents, private e-mail conversations (which I have been allowed access to. No covert stuff here), and other 'non-internet' sources I have to get my IT guy to host documents online for me if you want me to show them. I'm not bugging him at 12:30AM to do this right now.

 

[taylormade2006]

DocEspana, JD.

 

[HockeyDr09]

DocEspana, JD.

Seriously, what a badass.

 

[SFO-IST]

Why do none of them see the irony of claiming, "SGU is #1 in the Caribbean". That's like being proud you're the least ******ed kid in special ed. Oh, I guess I answered my own question.

I've worked with SGU students and residents and have NOT been impressed at all.


I bet I get an infraction for this.

Hello, new DO student here. While I agree that DO is a preferable degree to IMG MD, I don't like how you've worded your statement on a politeness level and an intellectual level. The above post sounds dangerously close to MD's bashing DO's. Anecdotes? Really?? I have one friend at SGU who has a Chemistry PhD from a top 30 school. I saw another Ross graduate (Dr. Rezak) the other day on Boston Med. You can also look up and watch Leslie Saxon's TED talk. She's a Ross graduate, too.

Are you as successful as Leslie Saxon? If her school is a place for "the least ******ed kid in special ed", what does that make you?

Don't statements like the above post degrade the person making it more than the intended target? If you're going to argue the superiority of your degree, I would hope that someone who proudly advertises that they are a DO on their signature would do so in a more effective and less offensive way.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I wrote the legislation being brought forward in NY and the national level that examines the educational systems of SGU, Ross, Saba and AUC and suggests alternate ways for them to participate in the medical education system without displacing as many american students.

BAMF.

Fill us in on the details (not of the report, of your involvement etc) when you get the chance.

 

[DocEspana]

BAMF.

Fill us in on the details (not of the report, of your involvement etc) when you get the chance.

Getting involved with the AMA paid of dividends. You do a lot of stuff that may or may not impact the rest of the world, but eventually you get to reach a level where you know youre impacting change cause you get to leave class to talk to state and national legislators and have contact with lawyers whos job it is to turn your suggestions into bills for 'real' (aka non-AMA.) legislators. I reached that point recently. It's actually unbelievably fulfilling to know you are making an impact.

As for the offshore stuff? They needed people from the NY society to spearhead a new way to approach the offshore issue since the "get the hell out of our hospitals" vs "we paid and the hospitals like us more" approach wasnt working. I just happened to be the one who's work is currently being voted on by the med society of NY. It *should* pass without issue at which point its gonna be put into Albany's plate after that cause its meant to become state policy.

I'd never become DocEspana, JD though. The lawyers are so much better at grammar and constructing an argument on paper than I could ever be. Actually writing this stuff is the hardest part, I just love researching it and arguing for it.

 

[TiB77]

Thanks to 87DO15 and Postal for your response. Had a quick question offices are closed today for spring recess so thought i'd ask here. Has anyone driven to NYIT-NYCOM for their interview. If yes do they have separate parking for visitors and do visitors need a pass to park? Never been there so kind of curious...

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

I wrote the legislation being brought forward in NY and the national level that examines the educational systems of SGU, Ross, Saba and AUC and suggests alternate ways for them to participate in the medical education system without displacing as many american students. Uncovering all that data they dont want to come to light was a big part of it. So, yes, I'm 100% sure I'm talking about St. George's. Their enrollment is measured at "900+" and leaked student attendance documents show 1020 (ish. I'm going off memory right now rather than going through my giant folder of photocopied stuff to find this) students in 2008.

No one is a bigger diploma mill than Ross who tries to hide how big of a cut-down they have by having two campuses with entirely different stats until they have cut down the unwanted students and merge the stats. I will give you that SGU isnt anything like that. I will also say that SGU definitely makes the most respected students. But the issue is that they are not *that* much better than Ross given the large amount of people they still esoterically cut. In that one sense AUC and Saba are much better, enrolling about what they graduate.

as for proof. You gotta give me a day or two. I have to host these things to show them. Everything I've gotten in this particular vein would *not* go into an official legislation unless i wanted it to be killed on the floor for being antagonistic to the offshore schools. (and frankly, some of it is inadmissible as I could never get these schools to release official copies to me, but I trust my sources). As such I haven't found the need to upload them for my legislation, but I have collected them along the way. Since they come from photocopies of internal documents, private e-mail conversations (which I have been allowed access to. No covert stuff here), and other 'non-internet' sources I have to get my IT guy to host documents online for me if you want me to show them. I'm not bugging him at 12:30AM to do this right now.

That is interesting but still the attrition rate at SGU probably isnt more than 15-20% and that can be due to the quality of students after all they have a very large class size.

 

[DocEspana]

That is interesting but still the attrition rate at SGU probably isnt more than 15-20% and that can be due to the quality of students after all they have a very large class size.

Well i told you that the attrition rate is 40% and that the entering class size is ~1000. You told me the graduating size is just over 600.

so that is pretty exactly the 40% i quoted.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Well i told you that the attrition rate is 40% and that the entering class size is ~1000. You told me the graduating size is just over 600.

so that is pretty exactly the 40% i quoted.

They graduate 2 classes per year. And I would like to see these documents because I doubt that SGU could start by enrolling by twice their graduating class. And are you including the entire College of Medicine because that includes a premed program and the two entering classes. The total enrollment is about 4039 and each entering class is about 4096. I guess if you divide that by 4 you would get a 1000. But each entering class is 605. But that is also including the KBT Global Scholars Program Enrollment which is in different areas.

http://www.sgu.edu/about-sgu/medical-students-enrollment.html

 

[javajava]

Hello, new DO student here. While I agree that DO is a preferable degree to IMG MD, I don't like how you've worded your statement on a politeness level and an intellectual level. The above post sounds dangerously close to MD's bashing DO's. Anecdotes? Really?? I have one friend at SGU who has a Chemistry PhD from a top 30 school. I saw another Ross graduate (Dr. Rezak) the other day on Boston Med. You can also look up and watch Leslie Saxon's TED talk. She's a Ross graduate, too.

Are you as successful as Leslie Saxon? If her school is a place for "the least ******ed kid in special ed", what does that make you?

Don't statements like the above post degrade the person making it more than the intended target? If you're going to argue the superiority of your degree, I would hope that someone who proudly advertises that they are a DO on their signature would do so in a more effective and less offensive way.

I was thinking the same thing

 

[patel2]

I'd really like to get some details/proof on this "1000 starting class" that dwindles down to 600 by residency time. I can't imagine SGU is that bad and I remember reading somewhere that it was 80% of first years who make it to US residencies (which is still atrocious, but way higher than 60%)

 

[christina30]

I'd really like to get some details/proof on this "1000 starting class" that dwindles down to 600 by residency time. I can't imagine SGU is that bad and I remember reading somewhere that it was 80% of first years who make it to US residencies (which is still atrocious, but way higher than 60%)

Maybe you read that propaganda on their website - because they definitely do not have a 80% match rate.

 

[87DO15]

They graduate 2 classes per year. And I would like to see these documents because I doubt that SGU could start by enrolling by twice their graduating class. And are you including the entire College of Medicine because that includes a premed program and the two entering classes. The total enrollment is about 4039 and each entering class is about 4096. I guess if you divide that by 4 you would get a 1000. But each entering class is 605. But that is also including the KBT Global Scholars Program Enrollment which is in different areas.

http://www.sgu.edu/about-sgu/medical-students-enrollment.html

Their website states they have 500+ first-year medical students entering this term (January). The class size has gone up dramatically in the past few years. In 2009, I believe, they were enrolling in the low-400s per semester for first years. Here's the article from this year. (The KBT thing still counts though, as those students go to Grenada after the first year. The article says 392 are starting at Grenada and then 120+ or so at the UK campus).

http://www.sgu.edu/news-events/news-archives11-sgu-welcomes-567.html

I was thinking the same thing

I agree.

 

[Kevin Baker]

I'd really like to get some details/proof on this "1000 starting class" that dwindles down to 600 by residency time. I can't imagine SGU is that bad and I remember reading somewhere that it was 80% of first years who make it to US residencies (which is still atrocious, but way higher than 60%)

Even if it is 80%, you have to wonder how many years it takes to do get that 80%. Until the data is out there and transparent, I think it is hard for any of us to make a conclusion. It sounded like DocEspana had some relevant info based on what he was posting yesterday.

 

[christina30]

Even if it is 80%, you have to wonder how many years it takes to do get that 80%. Until the data is out there and transparent, I think it is hard for any of us to make a conclusion. It sounded like DocEspana had some relevant info based on what he was posting yesterday.

They don't even have 80% of their first years taking the boards, so that match rate for first years has to be BS.

 

[Kevin Baker]

They don't even have 80% of their first years taking the boards, so that match rate for first years has to be BS.

Of course. Sorry for the confusion. I was referring to the students allowed to take the boards. What is it, like 50% of FMGs who are US citizens match every year, and 40% of non citizen FMGs. 80% sounds like a pretty optimistic limit for those who take the boards of ever getting a US residency. Too risky imo.

 

[christina30]

Of course. Sorry for the confusion. I was referring to the students allowed to take the boards. What is it, like 50% of FMGs who are US citizens match every year, and 40% of non citizen FMGs. 80% sounds like a pretty optimistic limit for those who take the boards of ever getting a US residency. Too risky imo.

And since such a large number don't even get to take the boards, it's even riskier. Not worth it.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Their website states they have 500+ first-year medical students entering this term (January). The class size has gone up dramatically in the past few years. In 2009, I believe, they were enrolling in the low-400s per semester for first years. Here's the article from this year. (The KBT thing still counts though, as those students go to Grenada after the first year. The article says 392 are starting at Grenada and then 120+ or so at the UK campus).

http://www.sgu.edu/news-events/news-archives11-sgu-welcomes-567.html


I agree.

So going by their numbers their attrition rate is not 60% more like maybe 10% and they have a 84% pass rate on USMLE. Also they have delayed track that takes 4.5-5 years.

They don't even have 80% of their first years taking the boards, so that match rate for first years has to be BS.

Can I get some sources?

 

[DocEspana]

Their website states they have 500+ first-year medical students entering this term (January). The class size has gone up dramatically in the past few years. In 2009, I believe, they were enrolling in the low-400s per semester for first years. Here's the article from this year. (The KBT thing still counts though, as those students go to Grenada after the first year. The article says 392 are starting at Grenada and then 120+ or so at the UK campus).

http://www.sgu.edu/news-events/news-archives11-sgu-welcomes-567.html
.

There is the proof everyone wanted right there. They enroll in a rolling manner. 500+ students per semester is 1,000 a year. You need to be careful with their numbers because they are constantly given without context. I pointed out two months ago that SGU posted 650ish matches this year for an entering class that they self-stated as being 500. Their numbers don't match up at first til you stop and go "they enroll two classes each year, but report only one graduating class each year. The stats are mostly made by not admitting that one entering class is only half of a graduating class"

Not sure if 87DO was defending SGU or not, but his point proved mine perfectly. By enrolling two classes of 500 (or really 4 classes of 350, 150, 350 and 150. but whatever) you get 1,000 students a year. Of which 600+ actually take the boards. The other 400 disappear or are stuck in a constant repetition of years limbo. These numbers are all out there in the public view. You just need to ignore the "percents" they give and actually do the math yourself since they use parameters no regular person would use.

again: they are not like Ross who cuts people from pretty much day 1 after collecting all the tuition for pre-clinicals upfront. And not like Ross who disallows repeats, they simply dismiss you. But SGU makes its money by only allowing the top 60% to take the USMLE, and untl you are in that top 60% you are free to keep paying tuition to retake over and over.