IR Rank List Help

[spruntable]

I have a few weeks between interviews to start to gather my notes and **** but I was wondering if anybody would be able to help me sort through my rank list. Considerations are:
1) Want to go into academic IR, so research (especially basic/translational/device development) is very important to me. That's why Rush, Sinai are so low despite being baller programs--no university research apparatus.
2) Partner wants to live on the west coat, or at least in a major city. Going to med school in a "college town" and we're both over that lifestyle.
Biggest issue is I don't know where to position DR at a lot of places. But if there's anything that looks totally crazy about this list or you have a red flag about one of the first few, that would be really helpful. Thank you so much to whomever can help!
Tentative list, very much subject to change:
UW Seattle IR
UCLA IR
NYU DR (didn't get IR interview, but they let you switch freely into IR)
Hopkins DR (no IR resi but guarantee IR fellowship spot)
UVA IR
Duke IR
Stanford DR (didn't get IR invite)
UMich IR
UCSD IR
MGH IR
Yale IR
MIR IR
Cornell IR (loved program but heard bad things about them clinically/technically)
Columbia IR
Rush IR
Pitt IR
Mt Sinai NYC IR (REALLY didn't like their program, yes I know they're one of the top IR programs in the country)
U Chicago IR
Henry Ford IR
Beaumont IR
[All other DRs?]

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[reddevs321]

I have a few weeks between interviews to start to gather my notes and **** but I was wondering if anybody would be able to help me sort through my rank list. Considerations are:
1) Want to go into academic IR, so research (especially basic/translational/device development) is very important to me. That's why Rush, Sinai are so low despite being baller programs--no university research apparatus.
2) Partner wants to live on the west coat, or at least in a major city. Going to med school in a "college town" and we're both over that lifestyle.
Biggest issue is I don't know where to position DR at a lot of places. But if there's anything that looks totally crazy about this list or you have a red flag about one of the first few, that would be really helpful. Thank you so much to whomever can help!
Tentative list, very much subject to change:
UW Seattle IR
UCLA IR
NYU DR (didn't get IR interview, but they let you switch freely into IR)
Hopkins DR (no IR resi but guarantee IR fellowship spot)
UVA IR
Duke IR
Stanford DR (didn't get IR invite)
UMich IR
UCSD IR
MGH IR
Yale IR
MIR IR
Cornell IR (loved program but heard bad things about them clinically/technically)
Columbia IR
Rush IR
Pitt IR
Mt Sinai NYC IR (REALLY didn't like their program, yes I know they're one of the top IR programs in the country)
U Chicago IR
Henry Ford IR
Beaumont IR
[All other DRs?]

Congrats on all of the impressive interviews! Where did you here that NYU lets you switch freely into IR? That definitely wasn't my impression from talking to residents and other applicants on the trail.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

I have a few weeks between interviews to start to gather my notes and **** but I was wondering if anybody would be able to help me sort through my rank list. Considerations are:
1) Want to go into academic IR, so research (especially basic/translational/device development) is very important to me. That's why Rush, Sinai are so low despite being baller programs--no university research apparatus.
2) Partner wants to live on the west coat, or at least in a major city. Going to med school in a "college town" and we're both over that lifestyle.
Biggest issue is I don't know where to position DR at a lot of places. But if there's anything that looks totally crazy about this list or you have a red flag about one of the first few, that would be really helpful. Thank you so much to whomever can help!
Tentative list, very much subject to change:
UW Seattle IR
UCLA IR
NYU DR (didn't get IR interview, but they let you switch freely into IR)
Hopkins DR (no IR resi but guarantee IR fellowship spot)
UVA IR
Duke IR
Stanford DR (didn't get IR invite)
UMich IR
UCSD IR
MGH IR
Yale IR
MIR IR
Cornell IR (loved program but heard bad things about them clinically/technically)
Columbia IR
Rush IR
Pitt IR
Mt Sinai NYC IR (REALLY didn't like their program, yes I know they're one of the top IR programs in the country)
U Chicago IR
Henry Ford IR
Beaumont IR
[All other DRs?]

If you want west coast, put all west coast programs first

As far as NYC program goes, my personal preference would be Columbia > Cornell = Sinai > NYU. Read about NYU on auntminnie. Sinai used to be the best until they massively expanded their program (7 fellows + 2 IRDR resident + 1 ESIR resident last year was my understanding). A word of caution though, Sinai do have tons of research. Rush also has tons of research.

 

[masaraksh]

Seems like putting west coast IR and then west coast DR is a good move - I mean, integrated is nice but really its not like the fellowship/ESIR path is going away and with the caliber of those interviews you won't have to worry about securing a training spot through that pathway. Right?

 

[spruntable]

Knowing approximate stats & region might help. Curious though, why is UChicago so low if you want academic?

Fiancee's job prospects, weather, weird vibe from faculty. Their research apparatus is definitely great, just didn't feel like a good fit for me personally.
Rough stats are 260s steps, top 25% of class at top ten school in midwest, not AOA, research-heavy app.

 

[spruntable]

Congrats on all of the impressive interviews! Where did you here that NYU lets you switch freely into IR? That definitely wasn't my impression from talking to residents and other applicants on the trail.

Thanks! That's what they told me at DR interview day, both from PD and department chair though I haven't talked to any of the IR residents. Their chair did three fellowships before settling on his actual career path (including IR) so he said they made switching between the tracks frictionless. Did you hear that was bull**** in practice?

 

[spruntable]

If you want west coast, put all west coast programs first

As far as NYC program goes, my personal preference would be Columbia > Cornell = Sinai > NYU. Read about NYU on auntminnie. Sinai used to be the best until they massively expanded their program (7 fellows + 2 IRDR resident + 1 ESIR resident last year was my understanding). A word of caution though, Sinai do have tons of research. Rush also has tons of research.

Sinai has tons of research (most SIR abstracts this year) but it's not the flavor of research I'm looking for--you can do clinical research anywhere that you have patients, but to do anything translational, esp in residency, you really really need an established university research apparatus you can tag along with since you have no time to lead stuff yourself. Again, nothing wrong with the research they do, just missing a big part of what I'm looking for as I build my career. What makes you put Columbia first, out of curiosity? I liked their program, just haven't heard many call it tops in NYC.

 

[spruntable]

Seems like putting west coast IR and then west coast DR is a good move - I mean, integrated is nice but really its not like the fellowship/ESIR path is going away and with the caliber of those interviews you won't have to worry about securing a training spot through that pathway. Right?

Yes and no, I think there's a lot of uncertainty in the ESIR/independent pathway given that we don't know how many programs will only use independent spots for internal applicants/largely fill internally. I think the training caliber is the same as integrated (if not better, since you can do MGH or UCSF DR and then Rush or Sinai IR, getting the best of both worlds) but there's no assurance you get an IR spot at the back end. I can envision there being an independent scramble cluster**** in five years that rivals the cluster**** of this IR match. Several PDs I've talked to have mentioned grumblings of this concern and all suggest doing integrated if you can get it.

So location preference is probably less important than securing an IR spot for me, personally.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Sinai has tons of research (most SIR abstracts this year) but it's not the flavor of research I'm looking for--you can do clinical research anywhere that you have patients, but to do anything translational, esp in residency, you really really need an established university research apparatus you can tag along with since you have no time to lead stuff yourself. Again, nothing wrong with the research they do, just missing a big part of what I'm looking for as I build my career. What makes you put Columbia first, out of curiosity? I liked their program, just haven't heard many call it tops in NYC.

In general, people like Columbia and Sinai for IR over NYU and Cornell. This is different from DR where NYU > Cornell > sinai = columbia.

Appearently Cornell / Sloan has less autonomy for fellow compared to other places but it’s very academic and got big names faculties. T

I personally put Columbia above Sinai because I was worried about dilution of the experience with the number of fellows on board. I did end up in a program with many fellows so we’ll see how it goes in July!

 

[ICanHasRads]

The idea that you can just switch into the IR program as a DR pathway resident can lead you down a very slippery slope. If all available spots are taken by DR/IR pathway residents, there is no guarantee that you will be able to join the pathway, which is what the ESIR is for. So if you wanted to go to NYU for IR fellowship I wouldn't count on switching tracks as a DR resident.

As for the relative strength of the DR programs in NYC, you should know that the residents from NYU and Cornell are babied and are given very little if any independence to manage a service on their own. Cornell's residents are known to be mediocre coming out of residency and into fellowship/practice. And if I'm not mistaken, NYU's residents aren't even allowed to take overnight call any more at the Tisch Hospital. Their call burden is now only 5 weeks total in 4 years of residency, which is awful. They have a terrific research reputation, but by and large that is due to the presence of the faculty there and has little to do with the residents. Residents aren't counted on for anything there, which may be your cup of tea but it certainly isn't mine.

 

[Rads4lyfe]

The idea that you can just switch into the IR program as a DR pathway resident can lead you down a very slippery slope. If all available spots are taken by DR/IR pathway residents, there is no guarantee that you will be able to join the pathway, which is what the ESIR is for. So if you wanted to go to NYU for IR fellowship I wouldn't count on switching tracks as a DR resident.

As for the relative strength of the DR programs in NYC, you should know that the residents from NYU and Cornell are babied and are given very little if any independence to manage a service on their own. Cornell's residents are known to be mediocre coming out of residency and into fellowship/practice. And if I'm not mistaken, NYU's residents aren't even allowed to take overnight call any more at the Tisch Hospital. Their call burden is now only 5 weeks total in 4 years of residency, which is awful. They have a terrific research reputation, but by and large that is due to the presence of the faculty there and has little to do with the residents. Residents aren't counted on for anything there, which may be your cup of tea but it certainly isn't mine.

I'm not sure about NYU, but I know from a friend that Hopkins is guaranteed IR fellowship for their DR residents, so I think that is a pretty sweet option for applicants since it has a solid DR and IR reputation. Plus having the option if you change your mind on doing IR is nice too, since many people ultimately change their mind during residency. I'm glad I didn't have to make that choice when I was applying for residency.

Sure, the residency at NYU and cornell is a little more cush, but to say they come out poorly trained is untrue. And at the end of the day, those residents will most likely get the best jobs in NYC compared to the other NYC programs given the more prestigious name in the radiology world. Also, given that OP is interested in academics and translational research, I would go with the bigger names since it's a big circle jerk in academics.

 

[radsplus]

The idea that you can just switch into the IR program as a DR pathway resident can lead you down a very slippery slope. If all available spots are taken by DR/IR pathway residents, there is no guarantee that you will be able to join the pathway, which is what the ESIR is for. So if you wanted to go to NYU for IR fellowship I wouldn't count on switching tracks as a DR resident.

As for the relative strength of the DR programs in NYC, you should know that the residents from NYU and Cornell are babied and are given very little if any independence to manage a service on their own. Cornell's residents are known to be mediocre coming out of residency and into fellowship/practice. And if I'm not mistaken, NYU's residents aren't even allowed to take overnight call any more at the Tisch Hospital. Their call burden is now only 5 weeks total in 4 years of residency, which is awful. They have a terrific research reputation, but by and large that is due to the presence of the faculty there and has little to do with the residents. Residents aren't counted on for anything there, which may be your cup of tea but it certainly isn't mine.

Hey, current NYU Resident Here. I used to use this site as a resource when I was a med student. Thus, I think it is time I give back a little. Just want to clarify a few things and make sure you guys know what is true and what is false.

1. Regarding Tisch Call, it is not that we are "not allowed to" take overnights, it is that we don't have to take overnights. Tisch is staffed by one overnight body attending. There are 3 Tisch workstations at the Tisch ED reading room and 1 Bellevue workstation. Any resident can come after work if they wish to take "call." There are more than enough cases to go around. Our volume is unreal. Some of the my seniors opt to take up to 2 month of electives in 4th year as tisch nightfloat to get more experience. It is personal choice, and not a requirement, which I believe is a strength and not a weakness.

2. Regarding IR DR Switch, there are currently 4 fellows. We are being approved for a 5th fellow, and have the capacity to add a 6th or 7th fellow when our ambulatory center opens up in March and when the fellows staff NYU Lutheran (which is now not the case). Currently, there are only 2 IR/DR spots. If you do the math, there is at least one maybe two or more spots for internal switch. NYU has a major preference in taking our own residents for fellowships and jobs. Majority if not all our fellowships are guaranteed for the residents upon entering R2 or R3. For our current second years, three out of nine are doing IR. The ones doing IR have all been guaranteed IR/DR spots by Eric (the IR/DR PD). If they don't choose to stay at NYU for IR for one reason or another, they are given the choice to apply out but also be guaranteed to match back at NYU for independent fellowships. From what I know, NYU is the only program that does this.

3. Regarding independence, we run our Peds, Chest, and Body rotations at Tisch and Bellevue, as well as NF at Bellevue. Our Neuro and MSK rotations are fellow-ran. We have a body and neuro attending in house on nights, which I believe is a plus. All traumas are cleared by the residents at bellevue and not attendings. Residents are the only ones who answer all overnight clinical consults at Bellevue as well as all workflow issues. We are the point of contact for all clinical teams. We only call our attendings, who are in separate locations physically, when we are unsure, or if there is a grossly positive case that require OR immediately. Having a Body and Neuro speciality attending in house means we learn on the job, instead waiting until the next morning for an email telling us what we missed. Instant feedback is sometimes the best way to learn in Radiology.

4. I don't know much about programs in Columbia, Cornell, or Sinai. So, I can't comment if we are better or the best, or if they are better than us. One thing I can comment on is our program makes strong clinical radiologists as well as academic radiologists.

Good luck guys. Hope it helps.

 

[IRorBustguy]

Hey, current NYU Resident Here. I used to use this site as a resource when I was a med student. Thus, I think it is time I give back a little. Just want to clarify a few things and make sure you guys know what is true and what is false.

1. Regarding Tisch Call, it is not that we are "not allowed to" take overnights, it is that we don't have to take overnights. Tisch is staffed by one overnight body attending. There are 3 Tisch workstations at the Tisch ED reading room and 1 Bellevue workstation. Any resident can come after work if they wish to take "call." There are more than enough cases to go around. Our volume is unreal. Some of the my seniors opt to take up to 2 month of electives in 4th year as tisch nightfloat to get more experience. It is personal choice, and not a requirement, which I believe is a strength and not a weakness.

2. Regarding IR DR Switch, there are currently 4 fellows. We are being approved for a 5th fellow, and have the capacity to add a 6th or 7th fellow when our ambulatory center opens up in March and when the fellows staff NYU Lutheran (which is now not the case). Currently, there are only 2 IR/DR spots. If you do the math, there is at least one maybe two or more spots for internal switch. NYU has a major preference in taking our own residents for fellowships and jobs. Majority if not all our fellowships are guaranteed for the residents upon entering R2 or R3. For our current second years, three out of nine are doing IR. The ones doing IR have all been guaranteed IR/DR spots by Eric (the IR/DR PD). If they don't choose to stay at NYU for IR for one reason or another, they are given the choice to apply out but also be guaranteed to match back at NYU for independent fellowships. From what I know, NYU is the only program that does this.

3. Regarding independence, we run our Peds, Chest, and Body rotations at Tisch and Bellevue, as well as NF at Bellevue. Our Neuro and MSK rotations are fellow-ran. We have a body and neuro attending in house on nights, which I believe is a plus. All traumas are cleared by the residents at bellevue and not attendings. Residents are the only ones who answer all overnight clinical consults at Bellevue as well as all workflow issues. We are the point of contact for all clinical teams. We only call our attendings, who are in separate locations physically, when we are unsure, or if there is a grossly positive case that require OR immediately. Having a Body and Neuro speciality attending in house means we learn on the job, instead waiting until the next morning for an email telling us what we missed. Instant feedback is sometimes the best way to learn in Radiology.

4. I don't know much about programs in Columbia, Cornell, or Sinai. So, I can't comment if we are better or the best, or if they are better than us. One thing I can comment on is our program makes strong clinical radiologists as well as academic radiologists.

Good luck guys. Hope it helps.

maybe you can answer why they pushed out the old PD for the new IR/DR PD? seems forced. I have heard the IR department is in turmoil

 

[radsplus]

maybe you can answer why they pushed out the old PD for the new IR/DR PD? seems forced. I have heard the IR department is in turmoil

Just so many rumors going on SDN. Good thing it’s cold in NYC, so I will try to dispel a few.

First thing is first. I am not trying to sell our program. It makes no sense to convince anyone to come to a residency under a false pretense. It just makes everyone involved unhappy. Second, I don’t think I need to sell our program. The training and location appeal to a lot of med students. Of course, there are those who do not wantto be in NYC, which is fine.

One, Divya was never forced out. People move and change jobs all the time. It is common, especially for those in their 30s. Two, our program is not in turmoil. Dr. Sista with the support of Dr. Recht is expanding all aspects of the program. Our attendings are from some of the most prestigious and well trained IR institutions with different strength of focus: stanford, Hopkins, northwestern, Ucsf, Sinai, and NYU. IR is probably one of the most tight-knit sections with young and strong leadership from top down. As residents, we get our own room as a second year without fellow, which is unheard of. If anything, our IR program is the strongest it has ever been. With Lutheran and Bellevue, two level 1 centers in NYC. With opening of kimmel pavilion and ambulatory Center, our volume is getting ridiculous. The IR section is currently interviewing and planning to hire another faculty to help deal with the volume. If anything it is under a period of rapid growth instead of “turmoil.”

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Just so many rumors going on SDN. Good thing it’s cold in NYC, so I will try to dispel a few.

First thing is first. I am not trying to sell our program. It makes no sense to convince anyone to come to a residency under a false pretense. It just makes everyone involved unhappy. Second, I don’t think I need to sell our program. The training and location appeal to a lot of med students. Of course, there are those who do not wantto be in NYC, which is fine.

One, Divya was never forced out. People move and change jobs all the time. It is common, especially for those in their 30s. Two, our program is not in turmoil. Dr. Sista with the support of Dr. Recht is expanding all aspects of the program. Our attendings are from some of the most prestigious and well trained IR institutions with different strength of focus: stanford, Hopkins, northwestern, Ucsf, Sinai, and NYU. IR is probably one of the most tight-knit sections with young and strong leadership from top down. As residents, we get our own room as a second year without fellow, which is unheard of. If anything, our IR program is the strongest it has ever been. With Lutheran and Bellevue, two level 1 centers in NYC. With opening of kimmel pavilion and ambulatory Center, our volume is getting ridiculous. The IR section is currently interviewing and planning to hire another faculty to help deal with the volume. If anything it is under a period of rapid growth instead of “turmoil.”

That’s a shame. I interviewed with Dr. Divya Siridar in March of last year and she was one of my favoriate PD on the trail, sounds like her departure is recent?

She told me that you guys hired 6 faculty last year. Did any of those folks leave that necessitated in hiring of another faculty?

Also, just wondering how did the job search go for the fellows last year? I wasn’t able to speak with them much.

 

[spruntable]

Just so many rumors going on SDN. Good thing it’s cold in NYC, so I will try to dispel a few.

First thing is first. I am not trying to sell our program. It makes no sense to convince anyone to come to a residency under a false pretense. It just makes everyone involved unhappy. Second, I don’t think I need to sell our program. The training and location appeal to a lot of med students. Of course, there are those who do not wantto be in NYC, which is fine.

One, Divya was never forced out. People move and change jobs all the time. It is common, especially for those in their 30s. Two, our program is not in turmoil. Dr. Sista with the support of Dr. Recht is expanding all aspects of the program. Our attendings are from some of the most prestigious and well trained IR institutions with different strength of focus: stanford, Hopkins, northwestern, Ucsf, Sinai, and NYU. IR is probably one of the most tight-knit sections with young and strong leadership from top down. As residents, we get our own room as a second year without fellow, which is unheard of. If anything, our IR program is the strongest it has ever been. With Lutheran and Bellevue, two level 1 centers in NYC. With opening of kimmel pavilion and ambulatory Center, our volume is getting ridiculous. The IR section is currently interviewing and planning to hire another faculty to help deal with the volume. If anything it is under a period of rapid growth instead of “turmoil.”

Both of your posts were extremely helpful, thank you very much for lending your perspective. It's tough to find truth in the rumor mill. I have a faculty mentor from an exceptional IR program who is leaving that institution to join NYU's faculty so I'm not buying the claim that NYU IR is in turmoil. Even if it's the rumor, it's clearly not true. Every indication I have, and every flesh and blood faculty mentor I've spoken to suggests it's a program on the rise. Many of the contrary claims are, oddly enough, coming from anonymous med students.

 

[Naijaba]

If you want west coast, put all west coast programs first

This.

Seems like putting west coast IR and then west coast DR is a good move - I mean, integrated is nice but really its not like the fellowship/ESIR path is going away and with the caliber of those interviews you won't have to worry about securing a training spot through that pathway. Right?

And This.

And I'll add my 2 cents:

I'll be doing DR at UW, they recently got approved for ESIR which takes a load off my shoulders, assuming I'm accepted. I ranked places based on three factors: my interests in computer science, where I wanted to live long-term, and, lastly, the program's strength in IR. I alternated IR/DR and DR at the places that met all three criteria. Seattle is paradise (at least from my perspective). It has technology giants surrounded by forests and water, with the ocean flanked by snow-capped mountains. Mt. Rainier is perfectly framed from Harborview's Skybridge, and you can see the ocean and skyline from back entrance of the hospital. I was enjoying the view while ordering my Synology NAS drive to be same-day delivered from Amazon, on a Sunday. It's simply crazy, you can go hiking in the morning, work as a radiology resident during the day, and then go to a Bladerunner Convention in the evening.

I don't like the possibility of applying to two-year IR-independent residencies, but it's worth it to live here. Personal fit, including location and lifestyle, should guide your rank list. I don't think there's any other criteria you should use, not even IR/DR vs DR-only. If you want to do IR, a path will remain open down the road, even if it takes an additional year. Integrated vascular surgery, integrated plastics, and integrated cardiothoracic surgery reduced training by two years from the general surgery standard pathway. The IR residency does not save any time it only adds a year if you pursue the independent residency.

Moreover, there are specific benefits to doing the two-year independent residency. If you are at all interested in nuclear medicine, you cannot be dual-certified in diagnostic and nuclear under IR/DR or ESIR, whereas under DR-only you can do your fourth-year rotations in nuclear prior to a two-year independent IR residency. You also cannot fashion a fourth-year of IR/DR and ESIR to emphasize other skills (such as breast or body imaging). The elective time has been replaced by clinic, ICU, IR-consult, and IR-procedural rotations. Few medical students have rotated through all of radiology (nuclear, MSK, breast, neuro, and CT-body all do procedures) to close the doors on these subspecialties at the time of applying.