Is medical school just for rich kids?

[jinglemingle]

http://www.idealmedicalcare.org/blo...ich-kids-this-native-american-woman-says-yes/

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[ace12345]

Many areas of the educational system en masse make things very difficult for underprivileged students. This is not up for debate.

But with FAP, Financial aid, URM acceptance stats...you've got to admit medical schools are trying right?

 

[karayaa]

It's easy to criticize med schools, but they're at the receiving end of 20+ years of prior challenges and struggles for people who are disadvantaged, some of which are suggested in the article. I'm not surprised that so few black/hispanic/native students get into med school.

 

[LizzyM]

So much whining! I find it hard to be sympathetic. The writer (if the writer is real; I have my doubts) is giving up before even starting. Such a defeatist attitude. I think the blog writer just has an ax to grind.

 

[jinglemingle]

So much whining! I find it hard to be sympathetic. The writer (if the writer is real; I have my doubts) is giving up before even starting. Such a defeatist attitude. I think the blog writer just has an ax to grind.

LizzyM, the writer is real and some of us know who she is. She sings traditional songs at pow wows and dances, so I too know who she is. The essay is misleading because it describes only part of a much larger problem - the essay condenses about 20 e-mails into one brief essay by the blog writer Dr. Wible. If you contact the blog writer Dr. Pamela Wible, she can put you in touch with the writer, who can tell you the whole story. I think one frustration of the letter writer is that one in three Indians from her tribe lack social security numbers. Without an SSN, they cannot get student loans and that effectively takes medical school out of reach. The essay misses mentioning this critical part that the student lacks a social security number like 33% of her Native American tribe, which is a serious blow when it comes to any kind of loan. Many scholarships first ask you to apply for federal aid, which is impossible without an SSN. The essay also does not talk about the constant harassment by the police and the efforts of the police to falsely frame her for crimes she did not commit (her only "crime" was that she flipped off a cop who had shot and killed her brother a few years ago and that cop is trying to frame her for some crime), her family conditions like having to use honeybuckets instead of toilets and many, many, many other aspects which were part of the 20-odd e-mails. But basically, for an extremely poor Indian, medical school is not an option without a social security number.

 

[lmn]

I agree with LizzyM, the writer just likes to cry and whine about everything being against her and everyone being out to get her and make it hard for her, while she believes it to be a cake walk for anyone who is of a different ethnicity than her. Further she seeks to insult "White" Native Americans for wanting to separate themselves from reservation life? Who the hell does she think she is that she is so much better than these people? Many of the Native Americans that fall under her categorization of "White" Native Americans are ones who's parents, or themselves worked extremely hard and overcame all the odds to eventually get off away from the negative environment of the reservation to provide a better life for them and their children. And somehow this girl wants to make these people feel ashamed and bad for working so hard to get away from an environment that very often takes people with kind intentions and bright possibilities and surrounds them with alcoholism, drug addiction, illegal activities, little education, and almost no hope to ever escape or do something better, that is an absolutely and completely despicable and idiotic outlook imo. I'm all for helping out the community that you came from, but after what some people have seen and experienced growing up on reservations, other than family ties, often the last thing they would want to ever do is put themselves back in such an often negative environment and relive their negative experiences.

Yes getting into college and medical school is tough coming from a reservation, but with the defeatist and negative attitude the writer has taken from the get go, I'm not surprised she hasn't made it. Honestly, the way she writes is extremely typical of the negative way some reservation Indians speak, with the belief that they have been so utterly wronged and that it is everyone else's fault and that for that reason, everyone else should bend over backwards and give them the shirts off their back to make it right even if they haven't necessarily done anything to prove their hard work, determination, and perseverance. It is honestly quite disappointing to see an article like this published since it casts such a negative light on Native Americans, and instead of spreading the word on the struggles of Native Americans to obtain higher education and medical training, more seems to insult other races as having it "easy" and looking down upon anyone other than herself who has been successful.

 

[LizzyM]

The comparisons to an Asian student at Penn and an African American student who owns two airplanes just comes across as superficial and whining. The blogger has done nothing to make this applicant the least bit sympathetic.

 

[masaraksh]

The comparisons to an Asian student at Penn and an African American student who owns two airplanes just comes across as superficial and whining. The blogger has done nothing to make this applicant the least bit sympathetic.

What is very strange is the line where it says:

"Despite being accepted by an Ivy League college, I’m at a low-tier school near my reservation while Lily studies at a super-elite university"

Riiight, so you were accepted by an Ivy and chose to NOT attend? Something doesn't add up. Ivys are probably the most generous with fin aid because they have so much money, and it seems obvious from how she portrays her living conditions that she would probably be given a full ride.


Personally, I am a little put off by the description of the Upenn pre-med 'Lily', even though I completely agree that some people coming from wealthy families do have a huge advantage.

 

[sazerac]

LizzyM, the writer is real and some of us know who she is. She sings traditional songs at pow wows and dances, so I too know who she is. The essay is misleading because it describes only part of a much larger problem - the essay condenses about 20 e-mails into one brief essay by the blog writer Dr. Wible. If you contact the blog writer Dr. Pamela Wible, she can put you in touch with the writer, who can tell you the whole story. I think one frustration of the letter writer is that one in three Indians from her tribe lack social security numbers. Without an SSN, they cannot get student loans and that effectively takes medical school out of reach. The essay misses mentioning this critical part that the student lacks a social security number like 33% of her Native American tribe, which is a serious blow when it comes to any kind of loan. Many scholarships first ask you to apply for federal aid, which is impossible without an SSN. The essay also does not talk about the constant harassment by the police and the efforts of the police to falsely frame her for crimes she did not commit (her only "crime" was that she flipped off a cop who had shot and killed her brother a few years ago and that cop is trying to frame her for some crime), her family conditions like having to use honeybuckets instead of toilets and many, many, many other aspects which were part of the 20-odd e-mails. But basically, for an extremely poor Indian, medical school is not an option without a social security number.

Is it that difficult to get a social security number? I needed one when I got my first job at age 13, so my parents took me to an office and I had one that afternoon. I know most people get SSNs at birth now, but if visiting an unfamiliar office and filling out a form is a near-insurmountable problem, then yeah there is no way they could survive a physician's paperwork load, and they should consider alternate career plans.

 

[el_duderino]

This article is ridiculous. At the point the author started talking about how she's a "winner" in the midst of all that whining my eyes rolled so far back I almost detached my retinas.

 

[EMDO2018]

.

 

[darkjedi]

I am extraordinarily skeptical of this person's claims. Ivy leagues are incredibly generous with financial aid if you are from a low income family.

Is it harder to get into a good undergrad and/or medical school when you are poor? Of course, but to say that medical school is just for those who are rich is ridiculous. I don't doubt her day to day struggles are real, but it seems like she is making up excuses as to why she is giving up pursuing medicine.

What's preventing her from getting a social security number? Honestly not having a SSN holds you back from a lot more than just college and medical school. Clearly there are more details than what is shared here in the article, but something doesn't quite add up.

 

[LizzyM]

I have come to the conclusion that jinglemingle is a troll who reads wacky blogs and then concocts posts to link to them.... "I'm not instate anywhere", "URM preferences are illegal in Texas-- based on a blog by a "full professor" in Michigan (!)" and now "med school is for rich kids".
I'm done.

 

[Donald Kimball]

Being poor is a huge disadvantage, and I think the medical school admissions process inherently favors wealthy applicants who have the luxury to spend their time volunteering, researching, or working clinical jobs that pay **** wages.

At the same time, this article is painful to read, and the author sounds like a pretentious cry-baby.

 

[sazerac]

Is it that difficult to get a social security number? I needed one when I got my first job at age 13, so my parents took me to an office and I had one that afternoon. I know most people get SSNs at birth now, but if visiting an unfamiliar office and filling out a form is a near-insurmountable problem, then yeah there is no way they could survive a physician's paperwork load, and they should consider alternate career plans.

What's preventing her from getting a social security number? Honestly not having a SSN holds you back from a lot more than just college and medical school. Clearly there are more details than what is shared here in the article, but something doesn't quite add up.

From comments to the article: fully one third (1/3) of O’odham Natives cannot get a SSN because they were born somewhere on their reservation and cannot document their birth with a birth certificate that is acceptable to the government.

Huh.

 

[DermViser]

So much whining! I find it hard to be sympathetic. The writer (if the writer is real; I have my doubts) is giving up before even starting. Such a defeatist attitude. I think the blog writer just has an ax to grind.

The blog is from a doctor herself. Also, realize you have a slight conflict of interest in this.

 

[DermViser]

Many areas of the educational system en masse make things very difficult for underprivileged students. This is not up for debate.

But with FAP, Financial aid, URM acceptance stats...you've got to admit medical schools are trying right?

Sorry but more loans hardly qualifies as "financial aid". Schools are hardly "trying" to contain costs bc they don't have to. Which is exactly why NP and PA schools have proliferated. Now for the first time in history, the federal govt. is taking away the monopoly formerly kept by medical schools.

 

[DermViser]

The comparisons to an Asian student at Penn and an African American student who owns two airplanes just comes across as superficial and whining. The blogger has done nothing to make this applicant the least bit sympathetic.

That's irrelevant. The point is is it the truth?

 

[darkjedi]

Sorry but more loans hardly qualifies as "financial aid". Schools are hardly "trying" to contain costs bc they don't have to. Which is exactly why NP and PA schools have proliferated. Now for the first time in history, the federal govt. is taking away the monopoly formerly kept by medical schools.

Many medical schools don't even dictate their own tuitions as they are usually set by the trustees of the university, which is the case for my school. Tuition inflation doesn't affect only medical schools, but is something that is an issue with higher education in general. I'm not sure how the 'federal government is taking away the monopoly' as this is an issue for NP and PA programs too.

 

[ace12345]

Sorry but more loans hardly qualifies as "financial aid". Schools are hardly "trying" to contain costs bc they don't have to. Which is exactly why NP and PA schools have proliferated. Now for the first time in history, the federal govt. is taking away the monopoly formerly kept by medical schools.

By financial aid I was referring to grants offered by many institutions to students from low socioeconomic backgrounds (Much more common than merit aid in my opinion). These are not loans and they do not need to be paid back. This is particularly the case at top schools, of which the blog writers seems to take particular issue.

If you do wish to push the point of schools giving out more loans, of note would also be institution-specific loans that often carry much more forgiving interest rates that are subsidized up to and frequently including fellowship. Again though, this is largely a conversation point only relevant at top schools. The SYSTEM carries MANY inherent disadvantages to those from underprivileged backgrounds. The point is that schools are trying, and I think quite hard, to level the field.

 

[masaraksh]

Well, I think it's safe to say that entry to other professional fields like business, government, or big law is much more stacked against people from poor backgrounds than medicine.

I think medical schools are trying their best to make thing fair.

 

[DermViser]

Many medical schools don't even dictate their own tuitions as they are usually set by the trustees of the university, which is the case for my school. Tuition inflation doesn't affect only medical schools, but is something that is an issue with higher education in general. I'm not sure how the 'federal government is taking away the monopoly' as this is an issue for NP and PA programs too.

One year of PA school tuition is not equivalent to one year of MD school tuition. Same for NP school. Same tuitions for the same end.

 

[LizzyM]

The blog is from a doctor herself. Also, realize you have a slight conflict of interest in this.

The doctor clams that this is a letter from a college student. The college student is a cry-baby who can't seem to come to her point without crying about life being not fair. Frankly, fair is the f-word that we don't use in my house. As many sages have pointed out, "Life is not fair." Get over it.

There is an enormous amount of grant money at the top schools for students of low SES. Free-ride in many cases. All of this race-baiting and whining just seems suspect to many of us.

 

[DermViser]

The doctor clams that this is a letter from a college student. The college student is a cry-baby who can't seem to come to her point without crying about life being not fair. Frankly, fair is the f-word that we don't use in my house. As many sages have pointed out, "Life is not fair." Get over it.

There is an enormous amount of grant money at the top schools for students of low SES. Free-ride in many cases. All of this race-baiting and whining just seems suspect to many of us.

What is the likelihood of someone from a vert low SES background attending a top-tier medical school? Let's talk about the rules, not the exceptions. The point is for the average American or a low SES American, a medical school education is out of reach without owing a $300,000 home without the actual home.

 

[LizzyM]

What is the likelihood of someone from a vert low SES background attending a top-tier medical school? Let's talk about the rules, not the exceptions. The point is for the average American or a low SES American, a medical school education is out of reach without owing a $300,000 home without the actual home.

Low SES applicants, like URM applicants, are the exception in med school applications. The vast majority of applicants are high SES. The top tier private schools have a ton of financial aid. Some students choose military medicine as a trade off with debt, some choose primary care in an underserved area for help in paying off debt. Some applicants who are admitted to top tier med schools will decline the offer and choose a state school closer to home with a lower base tuition rate.

Talented students can get an education without an enormous out of pocket expense. The problem arises with those who don't have talent being offered admission with huge loan burdens. I counseled a HS student IRL last year who had a ACT of ~17 and was offered a $2K scholarship at a school that cost >$25K. She and her parents misunderstood and thought her share of the tuition would be $2K. Obviously, someone in those circumstances has no business borrowing $23K/yr x 4 years to go to undergrad (that's assuming she doesn't flunk out after year 1).

 

[masaraksh]

What is the likelihood of someone from a vert low SES background attending a top-tier medical school? Let's talk about the rules, not the exceptions. The point is for the average American or a low SES American, a medical school education is out of reach without owing a $300,000 home without the actual home.

No. Thats not how it works.

Its not "out of reach", as evidenced by the physicians who come from low SES backgrounds. However, it is just more challenging the lower your family's SES

 

[masaraksh]

Talented students can get an education without an enormous out of pocket expense. The problem arises with those who don't have talent being offered admission with huge loan burdens. I counseled a HS student IRL last year who had a ACT of ~17 and was offered a $2K scholarship at a school that cost >$25K. She and her parents misunderstood and thought her share of the tuition would be $2K. Obviously, someone in those circumstances has no business borrowing $23K/yr x 4 years to go to undergrad (that's assuming she doesn't flunk out after year 1).

I'm suspicious LizzyM has a high end college/med school admissions consulting gig and is living large!

 

[Zelda840]

No, I don't think medical school is just for rich kids, even if they are the overwhelming majority. Us poor folk might have a harder road, but I don't think it's impossible.

 

[Beargryllz]

Does she not know about student loans or something?

Someone help this poor girl

 

[ct303]

Many areas of the educational system en masse make things very difficult for underprivileged students. This is not up for debate.

But with FAP, Financial aid, URM acceptance stats...you've got to admit medical schools are trying right?

I love when people say things like "This is not up for debate." like 1) everyone already agrees with them or 2) everyone must agree with them. I hope what you really meant was "this is not what the article/thread is really about so let's not focus on my broad, overgeneralized statement."

 

[LizzyM]

I'm suspicious LizzyM has a high end college/med school admissions consulting gig and is living large!

LOL -- I wish! Actually, I volunteer (I know, @Planes2Doc will be amazed or horrified) to help low income families in my community and it was in that capacity that I visited a family that thought that $2K was all that stood between a young lady and a college education. Her parents didn't speak much English and most of the financial information might as well have been written in Greek. I find volunteering to be very educational; it helps me to get to know people living in my community but in circumstances very different from my own including undocumented workers, women abandoned by their partners, kids who can't get to school because they have no footwear that is appropriate for snowy conditions, etc. It is eye opening and I highly recommend it.

 

[zzxxzz]

Ho boy...

"Lily and I have similar dreams. The difference is that she is from Asia while I’m Native American. She will be a pediatrician while I want to be a family physician."
-This kind of sneering, racially generalized statement should set off alarm bells in your heads. This person is angry, and it'll color their writing - and facts.

"Despite being accepted by an Ivy League college, I’m at a low-tier school near my reservation while Lily studies at a super-elite university."
-Considering the glut of cash Ivies throw at URMs, I think the author needs to qualify this statement for it to be remotely believable. You're trusting a random emailer trying to make a point?

"An African medical student just visited our tribe. His family has seven servants. Barely 23, he owns two planes. They’re small planes. One seats two people and the other seats four, I think. He’s the kind of person who gets into med school with affirmative action, not me."
-Um, ok? This anecdotal "evidence" is kind of ridiculous. It's a politician's statement, the extreme, exaggerated example targeted to rile people up.

"I want to be a family doctor. I want to return to my reservation and heal my people. But primary care is no way to pay off a quarter-to-half-million debt I’d accumulate as a student."
-Again, I find it difficult to believe some with a "flawless GPA" doesn't understand amortization.


Were the syntax and spelling of this article a little worse, you'd think it was an amalgamate of internet news article comments. The vast majority of med school applicants can't write a $250,000 check, either. But saying that's the reason you won't consider medical school is ridiculous. This person clearly feels entitled to a great deal of financial support just to prepare her application to medical school. It sounds like bitterness about a laudable but unrealistic dream. It's sad, because if this person is being completely honest (which I doubt), she could probably enter medical school and pay off her loans without too much trouble. Is she unaware of the plethora of govt. and medical school programs to help people in her exact situation?

Is getting into medical school hard for Native Americans? I have no doubt it is. I bet a lot of aspects of life are difficult for people of that heritage, and others, in America. But this person can only offer excuses. Based on her goal, it sounds like she should've considered being a NP over a physician in the first place.

I can't cite this statistic, but in my freshman bio lab we were told repeatedly that 95% of people who enter college as premed will never set foot in a medical school as even a prospective student in their lives.

 

[Gauss44]

LOL -- I wish! Actually, I volunteer (I know, @Planes2Doc will be amazed or horrified) to help low income families in my community and it was in that capacity that I visited a family that thought that $2K was all that stood between a young lady and a college education. Her parents didn't speak much English and most of the financial information might as well have been written in Greek. I find volunteering to be very educational; it helps me to get to know people living in my community but in circumstances very different from my own including undocumented workers, women abandoned by their partners, kids who can't get to school because they have no footwear that is appropriate for snowy conditions, etc. It is eye opening and I highly recommend it.

Actually, the solution to the footwear problem is wearing plastic shopping bags over sneakers*, even over old sneakers with holes in them. Sure, other students might laugh, and if you're stuck outside too long, frostbite might set in, but that's reality for some people. And I think there's a need in society for some doctors to understand those hardships. For example, if a patient comes into emergency with frostbite on her toes and says that she got it by wearing sneakers with holes in them, some doctors would say (behind her back), "I have no mercy. She should have worn appropriate shoes." Some people just don't get these poverty-related hardships. I would love for more doctors to understand.

I am glad that there are systems in place to help poor people. Although, I wish there were more because MCAT books are expensive (too expensive for some people), flying to interviews can be 100% necessary and prohibitively expensive (from what I've heard), and I've observed that having to hold a full time job while studying for the MCAT makes studying next to impossible for most people (based on my observations of almost 20 people in my study groups and those I've tutored).

What I mentioned in the previous paragraph (re: MCAT and applying) didn't even consider the boost in grades and undergraduate GPA available to those who can afford tutoring and other extras. In contrast, where I went to undergraduate school, not only could many students not afford tutors, but the financial aid office was unable to meet every student's financial need. As a result, I had classmates who were literally starving and unable to afford textbooks or food, and unable to sleep at night from hunger pains (I'm not sure if they didn't qualify for food stamps because they were students, weren't aware of them, or something else). I'm sure that impacted their grades, social lives, and ability to take on ECs relevant to medical school (since those are time consuming and NOT the most profitable jobs). etc.

*Caveat: There is an exception to this "solution" and that's that shoes are one of the most commonly stolen items at homeless shelters. In that case, it wouldn't be a matter of no appropriate shoes, it would just be no shoes period. And perhaps the addition of fleas, body lice, etc. All unpleasantries of shelters.

 

[circulus vitios]

Low SES applicants, like URM applicants, are the exception in med school applications. The vast majority of applicants are high SES. The top tier private schools have a ton of financial aid. Some students choose military medicine as a trade off with debt, some choose primary care in an underserved area for help in paying off debt. Some applicants who are admitted to top tier med schools will decline the offer and choose a state school closer to home with a lower base tuition rate.

Talented students can get an education without an enormous out of pocket expense. The problem arises with those who don't have talent being offered admission with huge loan burdens. I counseled a HS student IRL last year who had a ACT of ~17 and was offered a $2K scholarship at a school that cost >$25K. She and her parents misunderstood and thought her share of the tuition would be $2K. Obviously, someone in those circumstances has no business borrowing $23K/yr x 4 years to go to undergrad (that's assuming she doesn't flunk out after year 1).

Above average students can still end up with a lot of debt. I attended a public undergrad and received $0 in grants or scholarships. Luckily I "only" graduated $30k in the whole because I commuted to school. If I had lived on-campus, it would have been about $60k.

 

[DermViser]

No. Thats not how it works.

Its not "out of reach", as evidenced by the physicians who come from low SES backgrounds. However, it is just more challenging the lower your family's SES

Yeah, the ones who graduated decades ago when debt was ridiculously low. Wonderful.

 

[Psai]

What is the likelihood of someone from a vert low SES background attending a top-tier medical school? Let's talk about the rules, not the exceptions. The point is for the average American or a low SES American, a medical school education is out of reach without owing a $300,000 home without the actual home.

It's not out of reach for anyone when you have a government that's eagerly looking for young suckers to bilk out of cash through tuition.

 

[EMDO2018]

I love when people say things like "This is not up for debate." like 1) everyone already agrees with them or 2) everyone must agree with them. I hope what you really meant was "this is not what the article/thread is really about so let's not focus on my broad, overgeneralized statement."

Its not up for debate because its common sense. Poor people have a harder time in life, especially in education. If you deny this you probably are sitting atop a butt load of privilege and can only see the world through upper middle class glasses.


But the whole thing is tiring- the poor hate the privileged, the privileged think the poor are lazy and thus deserve to be poor, people hate urms because they can get in with lower stats, urms hate non urms because they most likely had better educational opportunities in life( which lead to higher stats + more competitive applications). I was looking forward to med school. I really hope the class isn't full of envy, resentment, hate, and distrust towards one another. In the end we are all working toward the same goal.

 

[DermViser]

It's not out of reach for anyone when you have a government that's eagerly looking for young suckers to bilk out of cash through tuition.

The govt. isn't bilking it, universities (in this case medical schools) are.

 

[familyaerospace]

The more I apply to medical school the more I am convinced the process is for the super rich. Not necessarily the application itself as there is FAP if you qualify but MCAT prep itself is absurd and I unfortunately need it but can't afford the $2K prep course. Everything else is mostly doable.

 

[Psai]

The govt. isn't bilking it, universities (in this case medical schools) are.

They set the rate for student loans. They determine that interest adds up as you're going through school and that you have to start paying as a resident. I will be paying nearly as much in interest as I will be paying back for the principal of my loans.

 

[Gauss44]

Many areas of the educational system en masse make things very difficult for underprivileged students. This is not up for debate.

But with FAP, Financial aid, URM acceptance stats...you've got to admit medical schools are trying right?

I wish I could agree. I truly WANT TO agree with you!

The trouble is, it's way to easy to hold a focus group of extremely poor pre-meds and some of the poorest 1st year medical school matriculates to find out what problems still need to be addressed. For a wealthy sophisticated organization to NOT even have a plan in place (to eliminate ALL major financial barriers to the poorest students), suggests to me that this is NOT a huge priority of theirs. They are capable of fixing this problem as far as I can tell. How can an organization of that magnitude not?

Theory A: They would rather spend their money on something else. They may have been required (by the law, a judge, an implied threat from a consumer advocacy group/activists, and/or for the sake of reputation management) to offer some minimal financial assistance to poor people resulting in FAP. (URM status was required by law, not by a bleeding heart!) Most corporations do some limited charity to enhance their image, to be liked or less disliked.

Theory B: They just can't afford it.

Theory C: I can't really think of a third one.

 

[ace12345]

I love when people say things like "This is not up for debate." like 1) everyone already agrees with them or 2) everyone must agree with them. I hope what you really meant was "this is not what the article/thread is really about so let's not focus on my broad, overgeneralized statement."

No, I meant what I said. There is little to zero argument that enormous educational deficits exist for those in low-SES circumstances. And it's everywhere. Take a ride through the Mississippi delta, south side of Chicago, etc. etc. etc. are you will see just how little argument there is here.

 

[Planes2Doc]

LOL -- I wish! Actually, I volunteer (I know, @Planes2Doc will be amazed or horrified) to help low income families in my community and it was in that capacity that I visited a family that thought that $2K was all that stood between a young lady and a college education. Her parents didn't speak much English and most of the financial information might as well have been written in Greek. I find volunteering to be very educational; it helps me to get to know people living in my community but in circumstances very different from my own including undocumented workers, women abandoned by their partners, kids who can't get to school because they have no footwear that is appropriate for snowy conditions, etc. It is eye opening and I highly recommend it.

Hey now, I think volunteering is great. You're a rare person though, since people who volunteer extensively are not common. It's a noble trait which I greatly respect and admire.

No one can blame me for pointing out that people are gaming the system where 90% of applicants volunteer and are dying to help the underserved, yet the underserved are still underserved since people aren't making good on their promises once they get an acceptance letter. I don't think Lily in the article is going to help the underserved once she gets her acceptance.

 

[deanthedream17]

Is it just me or is the picture of the blogger like a really stereotypical picture of a native american?

 

[jinglemingle]

Does she not know about student loans or something?

Someone help this poor girl

Thank you for the compassionate response, which largely seems to be lacking among posters in this thread. Sage does not have a SSN and isn't eligible for one, like 33% of her tribe, so she cannot get student loans.

 

[el_duderino]

The more I apply to medical school the more I am convinced the process is for the super rich. Not necessarily the application itself as there is FAP if you qualify but MCAT prep itself is absurd and I unfortunately need it but can't afford the $2K prep course. Everything else is mostly doable.

MCAT prep isn't some sort of requirement. Lots of people don't take prep courses. I sure didn't.

 

[Beargryllz]

Thank you for the compassionate and thoughtful response, which largely seems to be lacking among posters in this thread. Sage does not have a SSN and isn't eligible for one, like 33% of her tribe, so she cannot get student loans.

Definitely get eligible then. Although any savvy investor will advise taking personal responsibility for retirement, you really don't want to miss out on SS benefits. They could save your life if your career doesn't pan out or unforeseen expenses pop up down the road.

 

[ciestar]

MCAT prep isn't some sort of requirement. Lots of people don't take prep courses. I sure didn't.

I'm in one now and I think I would have been better off without it.

 

[deanthedream17]

Low SES applicants, like URM applicants, are the exception in med school applications. The vast majority of applicants are high SES. The top tier private schools have a ton of financial aid. Some students choose military medicine as a trade off with debt, some choose primary care in an underserved area for help in paying off debt. Some applicants who are admitted to top tier med schools will decline the offer and choose a state school closer to home with a lower base tuition rate.

Talented students can get an education without an enormous out of pocket expense. The problem arises with those who don't have talent being offered admission with huge loan burdens. I counseled a HS student IRL last year who had a ACT of ~17 and was offered a $2K scholarship at a school that cost >$25K. She and her parents misunderstood and thought her share of the tuition would be $2K. Obviously, someone in those circumstances has no business borrowing $23K/yr x 4 years to go to undergrad (that's assuming she doesn't flunk out after year 1).

What is your opinion of attending a lower ranked say public medical school over a top ranked private medical school for financial reasons? Does the better school justify the costs in education and the name it will add to your pedigree?

 

[ace12345]

I wish I could agree. I truly WANT TO agree with you!

The trouble is, it's way to easy to hold a focus group of extremely poor pre-meds and some of the poorest 1st year medical school matriculates to find out what problems still need to be addressed. For a wealthy sophisticated organization to NOT even have a plan in place (to eliminate ALL major financial barriers to the poorest students), suggests to me that this is NOT a huge priority of theirs. They are capable of fixing this problem as far as I can tell. How can an organization of that magnitude not?

Theory A: They would rather spend their money on something else. They may have been required (by the law, a judge, an implied threat from a consumer advocacy group/activists, and/or for the sake of reputation management) to offer some minimal financial assistance to poor people resulting in FAP. (URM status was required by law, not by a bleeding heart!) Most corporations do some limited charity to enhance their image, to be liked or less disliked.

Theory B: They just can't afford it.

Theory C: I can't really think of a third one.

Trust me, I am all about advocating for underserved communities. Read my above post. What I am saying is that the financing and support for these groups is there at top schools. If anything it is those just above low-SES, middle class applicants basically, that get nailed and end up taking on hundreds of thousands of debt dollars.

At the end of the day, top schools spend a lot, lot, lot to make this easier for students. Now the undergrad system can be something of a different story, but we're not arguing that here.