Is medical school just for rich kids?

[jinglemingle]

Definitely get eligible then.

We will get there in due course. Until a few decades ago, Native Americans were not even US citizens, even though most of them had served in the US military. Until around 1963, we were not even eligible to vote - I believe Utah gave us the right to vote in 1963. But we will get SSNs for all eventually - maybe 3-4 generations down the road.

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[familyaerospace]

MCAT prep isn't some sort of requirement. Lots of people don't take prep courses. I sure didn't.

My scores were considered too low even as an SES URM (see my round 3 on mdapps) and I was told I have to retake this time with a prep course. For my first two rounds I used the SN2 schedule on SDN with horrible results.

Khan unfortunately has already flipped to the 2015 MCAT and half the things I am looking for are gone I am retaking Nov 2014.

Wikipremed better work for me as I can afford $60.

 

[DermViser]

They set the rate for student loans. They determine that interest adds up as you're going through school and that you have to start paying as a resident. I will be paying nearly as much in interest as I will be paying back for the principal of my loans.

This is a little unrelated but this jumped out at me from the comments:

Lisa Goins says:
April 24, 2014 at 12:40 pm
There is always being a Nurse Practitioner with a Doctor of Nursing Practice. There are other ways out there than just being a physician in helping our people.
-Dr. Lisa Goins PhD, APRN, FNP-BC, RMT

"Doctor of Nursing Practice" "Dr. whatever"
Thought they didn't want to be doctors?

From her linked in:

IMHS
PhD, Holistic Healing
2013
Pending certifications in Reiki and walking graduation in May 2014

Indiana Wesleyan University
Master of Science in Nursing, Primary Care in Nursing
2009 – 2011

A 2 year "PhD" in holistic healing. Jesus christ.

Yes, and interest rates are the lowest they've been in years. Also, they've said they don't want to be physicians. They do however believe they are doctors, due to having a doctorate.

 

[Gauss44]

Trust me, I am all about advocating for underserved communities. Read my above post. What I am saying is that the financing and support for these groups is there at top schools. If anything it is those just above low-SES, middle class applicants basically, that get nailed and end up taking on hundreds of thousands of debt dollars.

At the end of the day, top schools spend a lot, lot, lot to make this easier for students. Now the undergrad system can be something of a different story, but we're not arguing that here.

The chances of a student who cannot afford textbooks, housing, or food to somehow end up with a GPA, MCAT score, and ECs required by top schools (as presented by MSAR), must be pretty close to zero.

Think about it, a starving person who ill with hunger pains, not sleeping enough, working a full time job which doesn't cover tuition costs, who is often homeless, coming up with make-shift ways to learn without proper materials....

I wonder:

1. How many people reap the benefits from those programs you described at those "top schools"? It's easy for an institution to offer money if they never have to pay it out! If it's impossible for a student with a qualifying background to get there, top schools won't have to pay a dime.

2. I wonder if there ARE people benefiting from the top school financial programs (you mentioned), but not anyone as bad off as the people I described? There will always be people who can strategically make themselves qualify on paper even if, in reality, they shouldn't qualify (i.e. put your money in grandma's name so fafsa doesn't catch it; decrease taxable income the year before applying to school, etc.).

3. This question might not be easily answered, but OUT OF ALL the people in the world (including those here in the USA) who meet my description of not affording food, housing, or textbooks, what sort of IQ, skill, etc... What would it take for them get into a top school? What's the threshold of intelligence, etc. required by them versus a middle class student?

 

[circulus vitios]

Yes, and interest rates are the lowest they've been in years. Also, they've said they don't want to be physicians. They do however believe they are doctors, due to having a doctorate.

They are? I've heard that med students who graduated 5-10 years ago could get 3-5% on federal loans. I'm looking at about 7%.

 

[ace12345]

The chances of a student who cannot afford textbooks, housing, or food to somehow end up with a GPA, MCAT score, and ECs required by top schools (as presented by MSAR), must be pretty close to zero.

Think about it, a starving person who ill with hunger pains, not sleeping enough, working a full time job which doesn't cover tuition costs, who is often homeless, coming up with make-shift ways to learn without proper materials....

I wonder:

1. How many people reap the benefits from those programs you described at those "top schools"? It's easy for an institution to offer money if they never have to pay it out! If it's impossible for a student with a qualifying background to get there, top schools won't have to pay a dime.

2. I wonder if there ARE people benefiting from the top school financial programs (you mentioned), but not anyone as bad off as the people I described? There will always be people who can strategically make themselves qualify on paper even if, in reality, they shouldn't qualify (i.e. put your money in grandma's name so fafsa doesn't catch it; decrease taxable income the year before applying to school, etc.).

3. This question might not be easily answered, but OUT OF ALL the people in the world (including those here in the USA) who meet my description of not affording food, housing, or textbooks, what sort of IQ, skill, etc... What would it take for them get into a top school? What's the threshold of intelligence, etc. required by them versus a middle class student?

Please read the last line of my previous post again. I don't disagree with what you're saying, but we're not talking about the undergraduate system here.

 

[DokterMom]

From comments to the article: fully one third (1/3) of O’odham Natives cannot get a SSN because they were born somewhere on their reservation and cannot document their birth with a birth certificate that is acceptable to the government.

Huh.

If this is true (which I certainly don't concede without extensive research) then it's an outrage that needs fixing.

But since I'm all for social justice, I did some research -- and found lots of information (I considered the Soc. Sec. Admin's site the most informative and reliable). But I couldn't find anything substantiating how difficult it was for a Native American to get a SSN. I did find this on the Social Security website (http://www.socialsecurity.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v72n4/v72n4p1.html) that was semi-relevant -- only 86.6% of AIAN seniors received benefits (guess they have SSNs?):

"A smaller share of AIANs reported receiving Social Security income in the previous 12 months than did so from the total population, 15.4 percent compared with 18.9 percent (Table 2). A similar, but slightly smaller, disparity exists among those aged 65 or older, as 86.6 percent of AIANs report receiving Social Security benefits, compared with 88.4 percent of the total population. One likely explanation for this pattern is that fewer AIANs qualify for Social Security benefits because their work records are insufficient to insure them under the program.16"​

If I'm wrong @jinglemingle, and Native Americans are being denied SSNs in droves, do please direct me to a reputable web site and I'll write a letter to my congressman and start a petition on Change.org to raise awareness of this despicable practice. If it exists.

We will get there in due course. Until a few decades ago, Native Americans were not even US citizens, even though most of them had served in the US military. Until around 1963, we were not even eligible to vote - I believe Utah gave us the right to vote in 1963. But we will get SSNs for all eventually - maybe 3-4 generations down the road.

 

[sazerac]

Thank you for the compassionate response, which largely seems to be lacking among posters in this thread. Sage does not have a SSN and isn't eligible for one, like 33% of her tribe, so she cannot get student loans.

Can you go more into detail on this? Why is 66% of her tribe eligible? The commenters in the original article made it sound like the problem is due to a lack of paperwork being provided by the rez.

 

[Gauss44]

Please read the last line of my previous post again. I don't disagree with what you're saying, but we're not talking about the undergraduate system here.

I've read all of your posts including the last line of your previous one. I am talking about medical school. I wish you would stop accusing me of not reading. I have no clue what you think I've missed. Maybe it's you that missed something?

 

[sazerac]

Also, in order to qualify for SS retirement income, you have to pay into the system for a certain amount of time. I think it is 40 quarters, or 10 years. I bet working income-tax-free and FICA-tax-free on the rez doesn't qualify.

 

[ridethecliche]

The more I apply to medical school the more I am convinced the process is for the super rich. Not necessarily the application itself as there is FAP if you qualify but MCAT prep itself is absurd and I unfortunately need it but can't afford the $2K prep course. Everything else is mostly doable.

I am of the opinion that study habits trump classes here.

MCAT prep isn't some sort of requirement. Lots of people don't take prep courses. I sure didn't.

Exactly.

My scores were considered too low even as an SES URM (see my round 3 on mdapps) and I was told I have to retake this time with a prep course. For my first two rounds I used the SN2 schedule on SDN with horrible results.

Khan unfortunately has already flipped to the 2015 MCAT and half the things I am looking for are gone I am retaking Nov 2014.

Wikipremed better work for me as I can afford $60.

Here's where the cost of time and studying is made better by taking a good schedule and sticking to it over justifying inferior materials. I bought most of my stuff used and it was still good enough. Even using just examkrakers and AAMC exams should net someone atleast a 30 if they actually learned something during the coursework. Obviously, non-trads with 5+ years of no coursework will have a harder time.

 

[ace12345]

I've read all of your posts including the last line of your previous one. I am talking about medical school. I wish you would stop accusing me of not reading. I have no clue what you think I've missed. Maybe it's you that missed something?

No, getting ECs, MCAT, GPAs as you discuss above is not about medical school. It's about undergrad. I too wish the roadblocks to undergraduate success did not exist for those of low-SES background. I wish even more those roadblocks did not exist at the high school and lower levels, where they are extreme.

Medical schools, I feel, have worked very hard to commit financing toward reducing such difficulties as a medical school student. This is a different conversation than discussing lack of food, as you mention, which is never a problem for medical students due to loans, etc.

 

[Beargryllz]

Yes, and interest rates are the lowest they've been in years. Also, they've said they don't want to be physicians. They do however believe they are doctors, due to having a doctorate.

Nah I think they're higher today. 6.8% is the absolute best loan you can get for medical school and that won't even cover the full cost of attendance. All the practicing and retired docs talk about their loans and I can't help but feel very jealous of those 1, 2, and 3% interest rates tacked onto a trivial (by my standards) tuition. Hopefully none of this matters because I don't even want loans at all.

 

[Gauss44]

No, getting ECs, MCAT, GPAs as you discuss above is not about medical school. It's about undergrad. I too wish the roadblocks to undergraduate success did not exist for those of low-SES background. I wish even more those roadblocks did not exist at the high school and lower levels, where they are extreme.

Medical schools, I feel, have worked very hard to commit financing toward reducing such difficulties as a medical school student. This is a different conversation than discussing lack of food, as you mention, which is never a problem for medical students due to loans, etc.

Right, in that context, I was discussing "getting into medical school," and the impact of poverty on GPA, MCAT, ECs, etc. With all due respect, I disagree with your first sentence. I understand it, but I think EC's, MCAT, and GPA ARE about medical school in the sense that they are required for "getting in, in the first place."

(I do follow your train of thought: You're saying that since GPA, MCAT, and EC's take place primarily during undergrad, they don't qualify as being "part of medical school." I feel that GPA, MCAT, and EC's are more than relevant to the OP's discussion because they are admissions requirements for medical school, and they are heavily impacted by poverty.)

 

[ruedjgtc]

Low SES applicants, like URM applicants, are the exception in med school applications. The vast majority of applicants are high SES.

Hi my name is Exception

I independent and SES, but my college always considered my parents income although we were estranged during most of university. This also rolled over into FAP, and most other types of aid.

On a positive note, I was offered a merit scholarship that helps a lot in medical school. I'm general money gives most people an advantage, it's not anything new, but medical schools are trying and likely harder than most.

 

[Teleologist]

Med school's also for cadavers, bro.

 

[Zelda840]

The more I apply to medical school the more I am convinced the process is for the super rich. Not necessarily the application itself as there is FAP if you qualify but MCAT prep itself is absurd and I unfortunately need it but can't afford the $2K prep course. Everything else is mostly doable.

What really kills me is the idea of interviewing all over the country. FAP pays for 15 applications and that's great, but how are people with very limited funds supposed to get there? I am using all 15 chances, but I know I'll only be able to attend one or two interviews if offered. My whole family will be chipping in what they can but it's not like any of them have the money to spare. I will feel so guilty if I use their money to go on interviews and don't get in anywhere. It would be really nice to see a program in place to help with travel expenses for interviews.

 

[mrh125]

http://www.idealmedicalcare.org/blo...ich-kids-this-native-american-woman-says-yes/

I'd say the majority of the time that's the truth. It's mostly for those who are privileged, from affluent backgrounds, can just autopilot through school/mcat, and have never seen real adversity in their lives. Look at how much money you have to spend on mcats, how the FAP won't cover past a certain number of schools, and how much money you may have to spend flying to different places for interviews. if that doesn't select for predominately affluent backgrounds i dont know what does.

You can also tell this pretty easily by their responses to those who actually encounter adversity during the process and little respect for them they have. "Anyone can do what I can do". No they cant you're just bias and short-sighted. When 70% of people aren't getting a 30 or higher on the mcat, it's pretty damn obvious not everyone can. These people can't tell how easy they got it. You really wonder how they're gonna treat patients when they can't take their own personal biases into account in this application process.

 

[familyaerospace]

Here's where the cost of time and studying is made better by taking a good schedule and sticking to it over justifying inferior materials. I bought most of my stuff used and it was still good enough. Even using just examkrakers and AAMC exams should net someone atleast a 30 if they actually learned something during the coursework. Obviously, non-trads with 5+ years of no coursework will have a harder time.

I don't think you actually read my post. I did the schedule that is considered to be one of the best on SDN and I really kept to it although I expanded it to 4 months instead of 3. Used EK, all AAMC, and TBR all of which were used (well except for AAMC)

I was still told I had to retake and advise to take an actual prep course to see what I am doing wrong.

 

[familyaerospace]

What really kills me is the idea of interviewing all over the country. FAP pays for 15 applications and that's great, but how are people with very limited funds supposed to get there? I am using all 15 chances, but I know I'll only be able to attend one or two interviews if offered. My whole family will be chipping in what they can but it's not like any of them have the money to spare. I will feel so guilty if I use their money to go on interviews and don't get in anywhere. It would be really nice to see a program in place to help with travel expenses for interviews.

15 primary apps, but all secondaries.

I had 4 interviews. Three in state (two of which were daytrips), one OOS where I drove to and slept out of my car.

 

[ridethecliche]

I don't think you actually read my post. I did the schedule that is considered to be one of the best on SDN and I really kept to it although I expanded it to 4 months instead of 3. Used EK, all AAMC, and TBR all of which were used (well except for AAMC)

I was still told I had to retake and advise to take an actual prep course to see what I am doing wrong.

I don't know your situation, but cases like this baffle me.

This is probably overly simplistic and misguided, but I think anyone with good study habits that did well in the coursework can get atleast a 30 with TBR if they actually take a step back every now and then and actually work out why they're making mistakes. Patterns are hard to break and that, plus the self doubt, are often the hardest things to fix. The content is far from the hard part.

 

[jinglemingle]

Can you go more into detail on this? Why is 66% of her tribe eligible? The commenters in the original article made it sound like the problem is due to a lack of paperwork being provided by the rez.

I would have LOVED to go into more detail but I think I am doomed after LizzyM called me a troll. Anything more I say will only hurt Indians. I am saying goodbye to SDN. Seriously, after LizzyM calls someone a troll, the person will never get any useful advice on SDN and I am wasting my time in here. I am headed over to /r/premed on Reddit for advice. Best wishes to you all in your admissions!


Edit:
Most of our issues are never covered by the media - like we had a suicide epidemic last week (chain of suicides). No one covered it. Then you have to Google the right words for the right tribes, which most non-Indians don't know how to Google.

E.g. if you google "Tohono O'Odham" with other search terms you get "About a third of the nation’s 24,000 enrolled members born in the United States don’t have paperwork needed to prove citizenship." See this link here: http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue2/2001/11/23/81209-o-odham-citizenship-bid-wins-100-backers/ which says "Without birth certificates, some cannot obtain Social Security numbers." That was in 2001. The problem is even worse after 9-11. But of course I am a troll according to LizzyM, so if you want to catch me, do so on http://www.reddit.com/r/premed because I don't want to be posting here again, so please don't bait me to post here again.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

No, I don't think medical school is just for rich kids, even if they are the overwhelming majority. Us poor folk might have a harder road, but I don't think it's impossible.

Nothing is impossible, but as someone who has been on both sides of the fence, I really command people with low SES who are able to make it to med school. They do have so many roadblocks in front of them.

 

[mrh125]

Nothing is impossible, but as someone who has been on both sides of the fence, I really command people with low SES who are able to make it to med school. They do have so many roadblocks in front of them.

That's the truth. Unfortunately, the majority of the time the people who say "anyone can do it" are ones whom the system works for most of the time, which is probably a lot more of those who have had it in the bag to begin with.

 

[DermViser]

What is your opinion of attending a lower ranked say public medical school over a top ranked private medical school for financial reasons? Does the better school justify the costs in education and the name it will add to your pedigree?

Depends on what specialty you're aiming for. If your med school is missing that specialty, then you will have a harder time matching into it. That being said you have no idea what your performance will be relative to your peers.

 

[DermViser]

Nothing is impossible, but as someone who has been on both sides of the fence, I really command people with low SES who are able to make it to med school. They do have so many roadblocks in front of them.

You really shouldn't command people with low SES to do anything, they are not your slaves. However, it is ok for you to commend them.

 

[LaceyMD]

My scores were considered too low even as an SES URM (see my round 3 on mdapps) and I was told I have to retake this time with a prep course. For my first two rounds I used the SN2 schedule on SDN with horrible results.

Khan unfortunately has already flipped to the 2015 MCAT and half the things I am looking for are gone I am retaking Nov 2014.

Wikipremed better work for me as I can afford $60.

I'm a little confused. According to your MDApps, you applied with a 34 last cycle. Is that not accurate, or am I looking at the wrong page? Because I don't see any situation in which you would need to retake a 34, or in which a 34 would be considered a "horrible result".

 

[DermViser]

I would have LOVED to go into more detail but I think I am doomed after LizzyM called me a troll. Anything more I say will only hurt Indians. I am saying goodbye to SDN. Seriously, after LizzyM calls someone a troll, the person will never get any useful advice on SDN and I am wasting my time in here. I am headed over to /r/premed on Reddit for advice. Best wishes to you all in your admissions!

 

[mrh125]

You really shouldn't command people with low SES to do anything, they are not your slaves. However, it is ok for you to commend them.

Yea, it's pretty hard to shatter the status quo when you're being commanded ya know.

 

[familyaerospace]

I'm a little confused. According to your MDApps, you applied with a 34 last cycle. Is that not accurate, or am I looking at the wrong page? Because I don't see any situation in which you would need to retake a 34, or in which a 34 would be considered a "horrible result".

I just do what I'm told at a certain point... it is slightly off because of a typo which I couldn't change once I noticed, but suffice it to say the difference it made was probably quite minimal. I believe they were considering previous results and weighing them more or averaging things but I can't do anything about that.

All I know is that I am being forced to retake the bloody thing and I want to cry about it. This test can rot in the hell I don't believe in.

 

[DermViser]

I just do what I'm told at a certain point... it is slightly off because of a typo which I couldn't change once I noticed, but suffice it to say the difference it made was probably quite minimal. I believe they were considering previous results and weighing them more or averaging things but I can't do anything about that.

All I know is that I am being forced to retake the bloody thing and I want to cry about it. This test can rot in the hell I don't believe in.

I think it more has to do with your situation as a social issue. Discrimination plays a big role for those in the LGBTQ community (heck even on some rotations).

 

[BestDoctorEver]

You really shouldn't command people with low SES to do anything, they are not your slaves. However, it is ok for you to commend them.

Lol... commend* Got it @DermViser ... Thanks

 

[familyaerospace]

I think it more has to do with your situation as a social issue. Discrimination plays a big role for those in the LGBTQ community (heck even on some rotations).

Honest to G-d, that is a real suspicion of mine.

I could get a 45 on the bloody MCAT and they would still say something about my score. What then? Too high?

 

[DermViser]

Honest to G-d, that is a real suspicion of mine.

I could get a 45 on the bloody MCAT and they would still say something about my score. What then? Too high?

It's not your score. 34 is absolutely fine. That's not the problem.

 

[familyaerospace]

It's not your score. 34 is absolutely fine. That's not the problem.

We'll see.... we'll see.

Actually I did something for this round that I did not do in previous rounds on the primary. That included getting into an incredible amount of detail about LGBT discrimination and pointing out the incredible rarity of transgender applicants simply trying to get a transgender person through college is difficult and there are almost no transgender doctors. Since this is almost a throwaway cycle for me, the primary allows me to get this off my chest and I don't feel guilty about it. I can revert back to a previous personal statement for round 5.

 

[DermViser]

We'll see.... we'll see.

Actually I did something for this round that I did not do in previous rounds on the primary. That included getting into an incredible amount of detail about LGBT discrimination and pointing out the incredible rarity of transgender applicants simply trying to get a transgender person through college is difficult and there are almost no transgender doctors. Since this is almost a throwaway cycle for me, the primary allows me to get this off my chest and I don't feel guilty about it. I can revert back to a previous personal statement for round 5.

Do you really think a round 5 is a good idea?

 

[familyaerospace]

Do you really think a round 5 is a good idea?

I am a bit committed at this point and unless my partner decides to convert to Judaism, my plan B which he is supportive of cannot occur.

 

[familyaerospace]

Besides I can't get anything else as a transgendered Jew, at least in medicine the Jewish part is a non-issue.

 

[DermViser]

I am a bit committed at this point and unless my partner decides to convert to Judaism, my plan B which he is supportive of cannot occur.

Or you could always do PA school, as there are schools that take the MCAT.

 

[masaraksh]

I am a bit committed at this point and unless my partner decides to convert to Judaism, my plan B which he is supportive of cannot occur.

 

[familyaerospace]

Or you could always do PA school, as there are schools that take the MCAT.

The state PA school (which is also the state MD program) requires like 800 shadowing. I only have 400 shadowing.

And seriously, the schools are the same and many of the adcomms are the same. If me being trans is a problem, it is going to be the same problem with the faculty.

 

[familyaerospace]

My partner wants me to become a rabbi.

Funny thing about that, rabbinical schools want students who are in a committed partnership with a Jew so he'd have to convert as I did. He does not want to go through a haf dam brit.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Or you could always do PA school, as there are schools that take the MCAT.

That is good there are PA schools that take the mcat, but I am not aware of any school that put that on its website. In fact, I think the MCAT is more appropriate for admission to PA school than the GRE.

 

[orthogenes]

The getting an SSN issue is a huge issue.

There are some communication issues and some religious issues that don't go over well with Native Americans trying to attend a university. I don't fully understand them but a Native American lab mate of mine was trying to explain it to me. Basically with religious holidays her friends (tribe members) would miss class and then get docked to the point that they could not make up for it.

Native Americans are very persecuted and are such a small minority that most of us will never know what it is really like.

Yes, the article comes off as whiny but wouldn't you be whiny if it took 20 emails to make a simple point... a point that the person you were trying to communicate with was failing to grasp?

 

[familyaerospace]

That is good there are PA schools that take the mcat, but I am not aware of any school that put that on its website. In fact, I think the MCAT is more appropriate for admission to PA school than the GRE.

I actually think my GRE would be better if I retook it.

I haven't taken that monstrosity in like 5 or 6 years.

 

[drcrispmd]

Thank you for the compassionate response, which largely seems to be lacking among posters in this thread. Sage does not have a SSN and isn't eligible for one, like 33% of her tribe, so she cannot get student loans.

If she does not have a SSN number or cannot get one, she can't do residency after medical school. Maybe she should inquire about how to get this resolved.

 

[sazerac]

The getting an SSN issue is a huge issue.

There are some communication issues and some religious issues that don't go over well with Native Americans trying to attend a university. I don't fully understand them but a Native American lab mate of mine was trying to explain it to me. Basically with religious holidays her friends (tribe members) would miss class and then get docked to the point that they could not make up for it.

Native Americans are very persecuted and are such a small minority that most of us will never know what it is really like.

Yes, the article comes off as whiny but wouldn't you be whiny if it took 20 emails to make a simple point... a point that the person you were trying to communicate with was failing to grasp?

I don't think missing many days of residency to the point that it could not be made up for would be a path to success either. Perhaps it is best that these barriers are found early so that they are not caught failing residency and stuck with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt too.

 

[DokterMom]

The getting an SSN issue is a huge issue.

Not being able to get a SSN would certainly be a big issue -- Can anyone (@orthogenes or @jinglemingle ) link to any reliable sources that indicate this problem is real and difficult to surmount? I did a quick Google on it and came away empty-handed.

 

[jinglemingle]

Not being able to get a SSN would certainly be a big issue -- Can anyone (@orthogenes or @jinglemingle ) link to any reliable sources that indicate this problem is real and difficult to surmount? I did a quick Google on it and came away empty-handed.

Most of our issues are never covered by the media - like we had a suicide epidemic last week (chain of suicides). No one covered it. Then you have to Google the right words for the right tribes, which most non-Indians don't know how to Google.

E.g. if you google "Tohono O'Odham" with other search terms you get "About a third of the nation’s 24,000 enrolled members born in the United States don’t have paperwork needed to prove citizenship." See this link here: http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue2/2001/11/23/81209-o-odham-citizenship-bid-wins-100-backers/ which says "Without birth certificates, some cannot obtain Social Security numbers." That was in 2001. The problem is even worse after 9-11. But of course I am a troll according to LizzyM, so if you want to catch me, do so on http://www.reddit.com/r/premed because I don't want to be posting here again, so please don't bait me to post here again.

 

[jinglemingle]

If this is true (which I certainly don't concede without extensive research) then it's an outrage that needs fixing.

But since I'm all for social justice, I did some research -- and found lots of information (I considered the Soc. Sec. Admin's site the most informative and reliable). But I couldn't find anything substantiating how difficult it was for a Native American to get a SSN. I did find this on the Social Security website (http://www.socialsecurity.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v72n4/v72n4p1.html) that was semi-relevant -- only 86.6% of AIAN seniors received benefits (guess they have SSNs?):

"A smaller share of AIANs reported receiving Social Security income in the previous 12 months than did so from the total population, 15.4 percent compared with 18.9 percent (Table 2). A similar, but slightly smaller, disparity exists among those aged 65 or older, as 86.6 percent of AIANs report receiving Social Security benefits, compared with 88.4 percent of the total population. One likely explanation for this pattern is that fewer AIANs qualify for Social Security benefits because their work records are insufficient to insure them under the program.16"​

If I'm wrong @jinglemingle, and Native Americans are being denied SSNs in droves, do please direct me to a reputable web site and I'll write a letter to my congressman and start a petition on Change.org to raise awareness of this despicable practice. If it exists.

Most of our issues are never covered by the media - like we had a suicide epidemic last week (chain of suicides). No one covered it. Then you have to Google the right words for the right tribes, which most non-Indians don't know how to Google.

E.g. if you google "Tohono O'Odham" with other search terms you get "About a third of the nation’s 24,000 enrolled members born in the United States don’t have paperwork needed to prove citizenship." See this link here: http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue2/2001/11/23/81209-o-odham-citizenship-bid-wins-100-backers/ which says "Without birth certificates, some cannot obtain Social Security numbers." That was in 2001. The problem is even worse after 9-11. But of course I am a troll according to LizzyM, so if you want to catch me, do so on http://www.reddit.com/r/premed because I don't want to be posting here again, so please don't bait me to post here again.