Let's rank top programs in order of malignancy...

[Pili]

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OK, so I have decided that my primary deciding factor will be level of malignancy. I do NOT agree that anyone, doctor or not, has the right to treat other human beings with disrespect. Some programs have a coupla losers whose moms did not teach them decent manners. Thus, I am not gonna rank them.
So, in order of least malignancy, Brown would be first? And stupid me canceled the interview!
OK, I suggest
1. Brown
2. BIDMC
3. Mayo Rochester
4. UW
5. Yale PC
6. Cornell?
7. ??????

 

[bicycle]

Other than Brown, did you only include programs where you interviewed? Not sure how you decided what programs would make your list.

 

[Pili]

This list is in order of Most Malignancy to Least
U of Michigan is the number one malignant program
Yale
UAB
WashU
BIDMC
Indiana

I am not sure where to place the NY programs but they are up there also

<gasp> Is BIDMC malignant? <deleting from ranking list>

 

[Pili]

Other than Brown, did you only include programs where you interviewed? Not sure how you decided what programs would make your list.

No, just from hearsay. C'mon, guys, let the information flow. Who are the losers out there? Who is NOT treating students or residents with respect?

 

[johnd]

This list is in order of Most Malignancy to Least
U of Michigan is the number one malignant program
Yale
UAB
WashU
BIDMC
Indiana

I am not sure where to place the NY programs but they are up there also

WashU is about the least malignant program in the country.

 

[scrub monkey]

most programs that make their interns wear short white coats have a reputation for malignancy.

hopkins
duke
mgh

 

[med1234]

WashU is about the least malignant program in the country.

same with yale. where is this info coming from???

 

[kingofhearts]

This list is in order of Most Malignancy to Least
U of Michigan is the number one malignant program
Yale
UAB
WashU
BIDMC
Indiana

I am not sure where to place the NY programs but they are up there also

Washington University is indeed malignant if you consider the following attributes to be malignant:

1. Strict adherence to the RRC guidelines
2. Strong housestaff loyalty and camaraderie
3. Program leadership with a sincere interest in your feedback
4. Respectful attendings that act as mentors in your clinical and academic endeavors
5. Protected research time; funding provided by the IM department
6. No clinic on your post-call day
7. Retention of many residents as fellows at a top 10 institution

 

[irlandesa]

OK, I can see that this thread is going to degenerate pretty quickly into "your program is malignant", "is not!", "is too"... Why not write about specific things we've seen at programs we've rotated through in terms of malignancy that concern us rather than slapping labels.

I wouldn't stay that any of the places I've interviewed or applied to are malignant per se, but there are a few things that concern me about some of the institutions I've interviewed at and/or rotated through:

Lahey: know of a few unhappy residents there, negativity toward other programs a bit exaggerated, don't expect to fit in well if you aren't preggers or married. One of my friends who gets along with absolutely everyone had a horrible experience with a resident there. But, dedication to teaching is strong, attendings are sharp. PD is really nice.

Tufts-NEMC: Peds and Ob/Gyn rotations and residents are nightmarish, no comraderie with other programs in Boston area, know a few rude and arrogant residents there that I would NOT like to work with.

Caritas St. Elizabeths: attendings are great, Psych residents who rotate with the IM teams are NOT, administration is unstable, new PD failed to attend a single AM or intern report the entire time I was there, and was quite overextended to say the least. Facilities and pagers are in the dark ages. I did NOT apply here.

U of Maryland: very nice, supportive environment, esp. at University Hospital. However, make sure you want to spend at least 4+ months of the year at the Maryland VA, where ancillary services are probably not great.

BIDMC: PD is reportedly not that approachable, and it still irritates me that she sent "special" personalized rejection letters to some people and just the form letter to others. Also, while the residents seem pretty cool, there are definitely egos in this place like any other. I also know of a student that did less than honorable and honest things to get an interview there; if you end up in this program (or any) with her, you have my sympathy.

Please note that I think all of these programs are academically solid and I am not trying to slap labels; just trying to broaden the discussion.

 

[bob3]

Nephrons, May want to move Yale to the number one malignant program from number two. Grapevine has it that because of the atmosphere, several interns have left the program, besides a senior resident that was fired earlier in the year and one that was fired last year. Residents are having a hard time covering for the gaps in housestaff. What do you do if dismissed at a senior level as has happened at Yale? Unstable program.

This list is in order of Most Malignancy to Least
U of Michigan is the number one malignant program
Yale
UAB
WashU
BIDMC
Indiana

I am not sure where to place the NY programs but they are up there also

 

[Jackie1.]

Nephrons, May want to move Yale to the number one malignant program from number two. Grapevine has it that because of the atmosphere, several interns have left the program, besides a senior resident that was fired earlier in the year and one that was fired last year. Residents are having a hard time covering for the gaps in housestaff. What do you do if dismissed at a senior level as has happened at Yale? Unstable program.

bob3, you may want to stop bashing Yale. When I was there, they had better fellowship placements that most boston programs. Also, the residents seemed very happy at the interview. Are you just going nuts on them due to some adverse outcome you received from them? Unfair, cutthroat comments you make I'm afraid.

 

[Fantasy Sports]

Whoa, not that is a good argument there, you just convinced me, Yale is the new number one malignant program

 

[Pili]

bob3, you may want to stop bashing Yale. When I was there, they had better fellowship placements that most boston programs. Also, the residents seemed very happy at the interview. Are you just going nuts on them due to some adverse outcome you received from them? Unfair, cutthroat comments you make I'm afraid.

To make it fair for Yale, we should discuss why residents were fired. Once we know that, we might actually respect Yale all the more. I for one know a few residents that deserve stat firing at my institution and others.

 

[Furrball]

So was that a flame? Or should we call it an induction chemo cycle since we are talking about malignant prorams

I guess what do we mean by malignant? Are we talking intense or disrespectful? U Washington has a reputation for malignancy but I loved my interview there and the general feel. I'm ranking Hopkins #1. People were intense but they obviously of a good relationship with their residency director. Somebody here called Michigan malignant. I've heard that elsewhere but if I didn't have relationship requirements pulling me to Baltimore I would be in Ann Arbor in a freakin' instant 😍 . I think that a lot of it is a gut decision that is made with a healthy dose of enlightened self-interest IMHO.

 

[frodeaux II]

You'd have to be crazy or seriously misinformed to think that UAB is a "malignant" program - that or you've been training at Ms. Trudy's Day-Spa Medical U. I cannot even imagine a better combination of great training and friendliness...

 

[Furrball]

Sorry, I don't thin UAB is malignant. Many people here think that it is a very strong program. I have met people who thought it was malignant, especially some of its fellowship programs. And that opinion was from somebody who trained at Charity in New Orleans. I humbly apologize!

 

[frodeaux II]

Ha!

I myself trained at Charity in New Orleans... I wonder who could have told you this (perhaps they're familiar with the way things used to be at UAB, circa 1970's-80's?) Send me a PM.

CP

 

[07match]

[bump from 2005]

based on rumor on the interview trail and/or limited actual experience in 2006-7, least to most malig:

brown
musc
dartmouth
u colorado
utsw
u chicago
ucsd
ucla
ucsf
u washington
duke
mgh
hopkins

 

[CJamblooze]

Ah the whole malignancy thing. So...the real question is "what constitues malignancy?" . At MGH, the residents were friendly and supportive, the program director is ridiculously supportive, and they are compliant with the 80 work week. My realization during the interview process is that "malignancy" is used synonymously for "intensity".

If residents as a culture like to work hard and are very driven, people label the program as "malignant". I wonder how many people from the within the program label it as "malignant"? It always seems to be an outsider with a variable amount of bitterness for whatever reason.

I also think there is a bit of residual reputation lingering from the "pre 80 work week" days. Even if a program is less than 100% compliant, the residents are NOT working 120-150 hour work weeks like in the days of the past.

Phew...thanks for letting me get that off my chest. This website is evil. EVIL!

 

[07match]

well said Cjam, especially the Evil factor here. Fully agreed.

quoting Pili, a great predecessor from 2 years ago, we could define malignant as:

"programs [that] have a coupla losers whose moms did not teach them decent manners. Thus, I am not gonna rank them."

 

[GooglieGoo]

Based on what I've seen and heard (very little factual information):

(least malignant)
Mayo
CCF
Michigan - used to be very bad, but now is actually very nice
BIDMC
duke - sounds like they've turned it down a notch or two
BWH
~~~~~(anything above ths line I would not even term "malignant")~~~
MGH
UCSF
Yale - very back loaded, which oddly enough can be as bad as front loaded when combined with a crap hospital
UWashington - now following "the rules," in name but not spirit
UColorado
UTSW - my personal pick for the next to get put on probation. Not only do they work the hours, and not only do they treat each other like crap, but they also have the med students tricked into believing that this is how it should be. Yeeeah Haw, Cowboy!
Hopkins - surprised they're still accredited. Luckily some of their students know enough to get out.
(most malignant)

 

[Jitterbug79]

Hi there - I have no idea where you are getting you information from, but I am a resident at UTSW and I completely disagree with you. I really get along very well with the other residents in my program, and I have never been "treated like crap" by another resident. I find it to be a very supportive atmosphere with other residents and with the faculty. Yes, Parkland is busy so we see alot, but we do have the 80 hour work week and it is enforced by faculty. I think you may want spend a bit more time at a program before you develop such strong, unfounded opinions about it.

 

[Teejay]

Hi there - I have no idea where you are getting you information from, but I am a resident at UTSW and I completely disagree with you. I really get along very well with the other residents in my program, and I have never been "treated like crap" by another resident. I find it to be a very supportive atmosphere with other residents and with the faculty. Yes, Parkland is busy so we see alot, but we do have the 80 hour work week and it is enforced by faculty. I think you may want spend a bit more time at a program before you develop such strong, unfounded opinions about it.

Hello Jitterbug,
I'm not a resident nor even a fourth year but i must admit that many people i know from my school and outside my school say the same thing about UTSW-(residents look tired,worked-out and unhappy, not so much nice people and sometimes a resident is given 12-16 patients at once) I don't know the veracity of all these accusations but having talked to both 4th years and current residents in other programs, they say virtually the same thing. My best friend who is applying this year said he did not rank them high because of these.
But i still believe all these stories are subjective. I know some residents over there still enjoy being there. And most importantly, y'all get diverse patient exposure and good training because Parkland is one of the most busiest hospital in the world.

 

[georgia9999]

UAB has always had a reputation for being malignant. Any merit?

 

[Doctor&Geek]

UAB has always had a reputation for being malignant. Any merit?

Maybe in the last century, yes. Now, heck no.

 

[Tapout]

Yale is not exactly cush, but not very malignant either - just a very hard-working program. It is indeed backloaded, which IMO is unfavorable. When you have a class of 30, a few will really suck no matter what so as far as people getting kicked out, who knows what happens here (can happen anywhere. They aren't exactly looking to fire you! Faculty will support your quest to find a great fellowship match.

The VA hospital is poorly run and leads to unnecessary scut and workload.

So it has its pluses and minuses, I wouldn't go there for other reasons than its reputation for malignant environment.