Match vs. Non-match decision

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SweetWater54

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Hey guys, I am interested in ortho, but I'm sure this situation could apply to any specialty. If you receive a non-match offer, how do you decide whether or not to accept it? Lets say it's not your first choice and there are a few schools you would rather attend that use match. I feel like it would be hard to turn down any offer. Do you accept the non-match offer even though it's not your first choice? or risk it and wait to see if you match? How did you guys make this very difficult decision if you were faced with it? Thanks for the insight!

Also, how much does the location of your residency affect where you are able to get a job after you are finished?

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bump. any advice? would love to hear the thought process of those that went through this
 
Hey guys, I am interested in ortho, but I'm sure this situation could apply to any specialty. If you receive a non-match offer, how do you decide whether or not to accept it? Lets say it's not your first choice and there are a few schools you would rather attend that use match. I feel like it would be hard to turn down any offer. Do you accept the non-match offer even though it's not your first choice? or risk it and wait to see if you match? How did you guys make this very difficult decision if you were faced with it? Thanks for the insight!

Also, how much does the location of your residency affect where you are able to get a job after you are finished?

You have heard the expression of a bird in the hand??? If you really want ortho and you got a position; take it. After you finish your program you can move or look for areas that can strengthen your skill sets. All programs have a set and detailed curriculum to follow, and if you are really good at your program, your name will carry regardless of location of the program. Each program varies a little bit. The location is super important when you are looking for jobs because your contacts are all affiliated with that program.
I chose a GPR that was still in state but outside the limitations of my Dental school. All my instructors were great for vouching my skill set but, no one knew these providers...lol.
 
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bump. any advice? would love to hear the thought process of those that went through this

No one is going to be able to give you any significant advice because this situation would be so specific to the programs and you.

Having said that, this choice really comes down to one ultimate decision. In the event that you turned down the offer and didn't match, would you be happier just ending up at any program knowing you're going to be an orthodontist and saving at least a year of your life and thousands of dollars...or would you be happier doing an ortho fellowship/GPR/year of work and reapplying the following year as a probable better candidate and better chance at a program you like a lot more.

My case was different but involved "similar" decision making. I ONLY applied to the OMFS post-match...and while there were 3 programs that I could have applied to, I elected to only apply to the ONE program because I would have preferred a year of improving my resume/reapplying over going to either of the other two programs.

When it comes to geography, it's probably also program specific. But I would imagine that all residency programs in all fields have a significantly hirer percentage of their graduates practicing in the same state as where they trained...but in some programs (definitely in the OMFS world) well known and connected faculty will have a much wider network to help you in procuring a job.
 
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I felt like it was too risky to turn down a guaranteed spot. That was my reasoning for choosing a non-match spot. Also, the non-match school was in an area I've always wanted to live. That made the decision a little easier.
 
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Yea I figured it would be pretty situationally specific but hearing your thought process/how you approached it is helpful. Thank you, very much appreciated.
 
It depends on your risk tolerance too. And everyone is different. I only got two interviews after applying to 32 programs. One interview was match and the other wasn't. I received an acceptance from a non-match program which has $80K/year tuition and required me to drop out of the match upon acceptance of their offer, which I did. Due to the Post 9/11 GI Bill, the match program would have had no tuition and a $12K/year stipend but the non-match program tuition would just drop to about $60K tuition a year with no stipend. I even got a letter from the program director of the match school stating "I really liked your interview." But even with that there was no guarantee and the program director could change his mind if he liked someone else more at the second round of interviews as I attended the 1st round. Or where was I on the list he "really liked"? 1st, 2nd,3rd, 6th? Who knows. There were only 5 positions available there. Imagine how dumb I would have felt if I turned down my acceptance and then didn't match because I was 6th. When I dropped out of the match, the match even called me to verify. I imagine I was probably ranked well at the match program, but I had no guarantee and the program is not allowed to tell you where they ranked you in the match. A letter such as the one received by them is the best they can do if they're following the rules. I will forever wonder what might have been and quite likely lost a $140K+, plus interest, by accepting the non-match position. I will forever have a somewhat bitter taste in my mouth by being "forced" to make this decision. But I am going to be an orthodontist, so how bitter can I really be? I need to be clear. Non-match acceptances are NOT easy to get. They are NOT handed out like candy. If you get one, you still won the lottery.

Playing devil's advocate, I'd be a liar if I said I never thought about the following. I am positive that many accept these positions at non-match schools and then do not drop out of the match like they're supposed to. When they match, they notify the non-match program that they now decline the position and simply lose their deposit. My school's deposit was $5k, so by all means, not a small chunk of change. But this maneuver could backfire on you far worse than just loosing the deposit. Still I imagine that, most of the time, it probably doesn't. Program directors do talk, but it would probably be very difficult for the program director at a non-match school to know where you matched, especially since they don't participate in the match. But if they were able to do so, and divulged what you did to the program director of the school where you matched, you might find yourself out of a position and on a black list. A maneuver like that may prevent you from getting in anywhere even in future cycles. For the record, I doubt a black list really exists though. Also, if the program director of the match school ranked you high enough to get matched, they probably did like you and want you. Given that the match would be over for that cycle, if the match school reneged on their acceptance of you due to your poor ethics, imagine how low they would then have to go on their acceptance list post match in order to fill your slot. In all likelihood, you will still probably keep your position but your program director and the other faculty would probably always view you as the unethical kid who needs to be watched more closely. Not a good place to be, and may indicate that your career will consist of more unethical decisions in the future. That being said, if you were able to keep your spot, despite your tarnished image, I imagine you would frequently think to yourself how dumb you would have been had you accepted the non-match position and how much you saved by rejecting the offer that non-match program tried to "force" you to make. Additionally, should you not match, then you didn't loose anything. Not only will you not feel any resentment against the non-match position which you accepted, but it will make you even more grateful for that program's acceptance.

So there's a risk tolerance part of the equation and also an ethics part. How will it make you feel about yourself to do this? For some, it's an easy answer based on ethics alone. For others, they will justify it as the "cost of doing business" and claim that it is the non-match programs that are being unethical. After all, is it ethical to force a student to lose a shot at saving $140K+, plus interest, to justify getting the best students they can? I believe it is unethical. I say this because I doubt, if it were them, they would want to be put in this same position. That being said, no one put a gun to my head and forced me to apply to this school.

It appears that the legal repercussions are minimally a loss of the deposit. But is it actually a legal document? We make our patient's sign all kinds of documents that would not hold up in court. Would it be ethical/legal for these schools to keep the deposit and then additionally defame you by contacting the program director of the school where you matched? Could you sue the school for defamation and additionally get your deposit back? Do you even want to put yourself in this stressful scenario? These ethical/legal scenarios are debatable and we will all need to answer them for ourselves.
 
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Do non-match schools overlap in their acceptance dates/when they need your answer? For example, if you apply to two non-match schools and got an offer from one, would you know if you got an offer from the second one or not before you had to make a decision on the first?
 
Do non-match schools overlap in their acceptance dates/when they need your answer? For example, if you apply to two non-match schools and got an offer from one, would you know if you got an offer from the second one or not before you had to make a decision on the first?

You can look at past years of ORTHO INTERVIEW/MATCH threads to see when interviews generally are and when acceptances are generally given out.

However, the answer is almost always NO. Programs, especially non-match, do not care to give you the luxury of being able to decide between two (or more) programs, and they will notify you of your acceptance whenever they see fit. They also almost always require an immediate response to the acceptance call, some within an hour, some a few days or a week. There are many tales of students on an interview to some program, and receives an offer from a non-match school, and is (basically) forced to accept it and just leaves in the middle of the interview.

As they stand, non-match programs unfortunately do not work in the favor of applicants.
 
Do match programs often ask at your interview if you are applying to non-match programs? I could imagine that Match programs may be upset if after considering you, interviewing you, and looking at ranking you, you decide to drop out from the entire process early. Do most applicants apply to both Match and Non-Match, mainly match or mainly non-match? If Match programs know that you are applying to Non-match programs, could it diminish their interest in you? Just trying to get a better feel for which programs to apply to. Thanks!
 
Do match programs often ask at your interview if you are applying to non-match programs? I could imagine that Match programs may be upset if after considering you, interviewing you, and looking at ranking you, you decide to drop out from the entire process early. Do most applicants apply to both Match and Non-Match, mainly match or mainly non-match? If Match programs know that you are applying to Non-match programs, could it diminish their interest in you? Just trying to get a better feel for which programs to apply to. Thanks!

Yes, and this year there are several residencies (Iowa, can't remember off the top of my head others) that are stating they are only taking applicants who are applying to MATCH programs only - you have to hand write some sentence saying that you are only applying to match programs only. Now I don't believe there is a way they can confirm that, but yes it would definitely leave a bad taste if you went through everything with the match-only programs and then accepted a non-match offer. Some people say 'who cares, just lie and do whatever works best for you,' others say it will give you a poor stigma that will follow throughout residency or even jeopardize your acceptance into the other program.

All that being said, as much as I dislike the idea that these select programs are limiting students to applying to match only, I am much more against non-match schools getting their picks first. It is not for the benefit of the applicant.
 
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