MD vs. DO thread-- Final Resting Place

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amikhchi said:
well, like i said, i'm applying DO so you didn't need to sell me, i was just curious as to why the stats are different, and I think if i lived on the east coast that i wouldn't think DOs are so unknown (right?) but out here if you talk about DO to anyone but a premed student they probably won't know what you're talking about (also live in socal)... In that sense it seems that in the coming years as it becomes mroe and more popular there won't be a question, seems like eventually (dunno, maybe 10 years down the line) the MD/DO schools will merge somewhat... either way thanks for the info, it makes perfect sense

a bit off topic, but as far as DO schools go, is there some sort of ranking system that lists the DO schools, i mean either way i would go where i felt the best fit, but just curious...

***is there a place to get DO stats, like number of students applied/matriculated per year, just want to see how it's gone up in the past 5 years***
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You can look at the 2009 College Information Book, found on aacom.org. That might give you some of the info you want.
 
I am a premed sophomore trying to decide between a few medical careers. If anyone out there was on the fence about what type of doctor they wanted to be, could you tell me what made you choose one over the other? I go to a competitive private school and a lot of the pre-meds there consider DO school as "second place". I don't really think one is better than the other, they both have good and bad aspects to them and I have seen a practice with a DO and MD working together. If anyone could share their thoughts on this, I would really appreciate it!
Thank you!!!!
 
I plan on applying to both, and then determining where I will go depending on what schools I get into. Since I really don't care what the letters after my name are, I will be happy with either. Also I am predicting a lock in about 4 posts.
 
jadabrizi said:
I am a premed sophomore trying to decide between a few medical careers. If anyone out there was on the fence about what type of doctor they wanted to be, could you tell me what made you choose one over the other? I go to a competitive private school and a lot of the pre-meds there consider DO school as "second place". I don't really think one is better than the other, they both have good and bad aspects to them and I have seen a practice with a DO and MD working together. If anyone could share their thoughts on this, I would really appreciate it!
Thank you!!!!
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You need to look at the almost 200 schools out there, and pick about a dozen you like...regardless of MD/DO classification...

Think about location, city size, cost of living, programs offered by the school, tuition, your odds of being accepted...etc.

Apply, and see where you get interviews. This is what I did, and I got interviews everywhere I applied...so VISITING the schools made my decision for me. When I went to VCOM to interview, the school fit ME more than any other school.

That's why you should pick a school, because it is right for you. Sure, I could have gone to an MD school or another DO school, but none of them were as right for me as VCOM. Just have an open mind and see what you really, truly like.
 
jadabrizi said:
i am a premed sophomore trying to decide between a few medical careers. If anyone out there was on the fence about what type of doctor they wanted to be, could you tell me what made you choose one over the other? I go to a competitive private school and a lot of the pre-meds there consider do school as "second place". I don't really think one is better than the other, they both have good and bad aspects to them and i have seen a practice with a do and md working together. If anyone could share their thoughts on this, i would really appreciate it!
Thank you!!!!
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lol!!
 
Why arent there more threads asking to compare matriculation into DO vs US based MD schools. I think that by always comparing our schools to IMGs, we are not letting our schools live up to their true potential (local MD alternatives)...I chose DO over local MD because of location and teachers. If we didn't always look at osteo's as second choices maybe they would be viewed as equal alternatives faster than the current rate....I think im just getting tired of seeing DO vs IMG MD.
 
NotAndrew said:
I plan on applying to both, and then determining where I will go depending on what schools I get into. Since I really don't care what the letters after my name are, I will be happy with either. Also I am predicting a lock in about 4 posts.
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You know, I am in that dilemma right now. My goal was simply medicine, now I do not know where to start to think so that I can make a final decision between my Do and Md offers.:help:🙁+pity+:poke:
 
I think the issue is that of opportunity. While in practice, there is no difference between a MD and a DO, there is a difference in the opportunities available to you, should you choose academic medicine, or research. A few specialties are very hard to get, and some PDs, especially in traditional specialties like surgery, will discriminate. On the whole, for some residencies, it matters not at all, while in others, it may. Osteopathic specialties are often fewer in number (adjusting for student: residency ratio), sometimes not funded, and often in less desirous locations. They also tend to be at community hospitals instead of university centers (with exceptions), which may hamper you if your goal is a subspecialty and/or academic practice. It never precludes you, but medical school (DO or MD) is hard as hell and you want to choose the path of least resistance.

In terms of knowledge, the education is the same, so it just depends on you and your test scores. There is no winner there.

My advice to someone is if you think you might be interested in academic medicine, or in a difficult specialty or have geographic constraints in terms of where DO residencies tend to be offered, I would choose MD. The only thing about that is its extremely difficult to know what specialty you may end up in, so its tough as a premed. That might be why many people seem to select a MD school if they get into both.

For me, I am going to be applying to DO/PhD programs to help with the academic aspect of it, so hopefully I can help myself into academic medicine. So there are things you can do to mitigate whatever downsides you may end up with. I don't care about DO or MD residencies but I'd like it in an academic center as I'm interested in research.

If you don't care about any of the reasons mentioned above, I'd choose the cheapest school out there. My advice to everyone in this process would be to choose the path of least resistance. You'll have enough to worry about.

Of course, some people really are interested in OMM, but many schools do offer courses for MDs to become acquainted with OMM.
 
Not to say that DO programs or MD programs is easier, but it seems to me that in the allo forums the pre-meds that have low GPAs end up going to DO schools because they're more likely to get accepted; and, the end result is the same: you become a physician.
I get the impression that if you have a low GPA (~3.5) and still want to be a physician then you should apply to DO schools.
As far as distinguishing between MD or DO, it's just initials after your name. With that said, I get the feeling that even if an MD says he respects a DO, he still has a slight bias against the DO. I don't mean to belittle anyone's efforts on SDN, since I'm still a very little sapling.
 
tahdah said:
Not to say that DO programs or MD programs is easier, but it seems to me that in the allo forums the pre-meds that have low GPAs end up going to DO schools because they're more likely to get accepted; and, the end result is the same: you become a physician.
I get the impression that if you have a low GPA (~3.5) and still want to be a physician then you should apply to DO schools.
As far as distinguishing between MD or DO, it's just initials after your name. With that said, I get the feeling that even if an MD says he respects a DO, he still has a slight bias against the DO. I don't mean to belittle anyone's efforts on SDN, since I'm still a very little sapling.
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Whoa now. Since when is 3.5 a low GPA?! You've obviously been spending too much time with the pre-med gunners in allo. :laugh:
 
Semicolon said:
Whoa now. Since when is 3.5 a low GPA?! You've obviously been spending too much time with the pre-med gunners in allo. :laugh:
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I have 2 physicians for uncles. I got an A- in Calc II at a CC and they chewed me out saying that it's "totally unacceptable". I'm about to receive a B+ for a 200 level English course at the same CC. They're probably going to tell me that I have no chance whatsoever at med school, even though I have a 3.9 GPA.
I used low in relative terms to what I'm used to.
Sorry if I offended anyone.
 
tahdah said:
Not to say that DO programs or MD programs is easier, but it seems to me that in the allo forums the pre-meds that have low GPAs end up going to DO schools because they're more likely to get accepted; and, the end result is the same: you become a physician.
I get the impression that if you have a low GPA (~3.5) and still want to be a physician then you should apply to DO schools.
As far as distinguishing between MD or DO, it's just initials after your name. With that said, I get the feeling that even if an MD says he respects a DO, he still has a slight bias against the DO. I don't mean to belittle anyone's efforts on SDN, since I'm still a very little sapling.
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Genius. Why hasn't anyone brought this up before??? 3.5. Pathetic. You should look into janitor jobs, not med school with a 3.5. I'm gonna call troll now.
 
tahdah said:
I have 2 physicians for uncles. I got an A- in Calc II at a CC and they chewed me out saying that it's "totally unacceptable". I'm about to receive a B+ for a 200 level English course at the same CC. They're probably going to tell me that I have no chance whatsoever at med school, even though I have a 3.9 GPA.
I used low in relative terms to what I'm used to.
Sorry if I offended anyone.
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two things:

I am glad that I don't hv them as my "uncles", because I would, in fact, chew their backside off for chewing me out like that! 😀 What is wrong with A- and B+? They are perfectly fine grades!

People got accepted to schools not because they make perfect A+++ grades, it is a combination of ability to handle rigorous academic demands, sense of maturity, altruism etc. Many ppl with great numbers don't get in med schs (MD and DO)!

Lastly, I can see the gate to hell opening!!!:laugh:
 
PipiChen said:
two things:

I am glad that I don't hv them as my "uncles", because I would, in fact, chew their backside off for chewing me out like that! 😀 What is wrong with A- and B+? They are perfectly fine grades!

People got accepted to schools not because they make perfect A+++ grades, it is a combination of ability to handle rigorous academic demands, sense of maturity, altruism etc. Many ppl with great numbers don't get in med schs (MD and DO)!

Lastly, I can see the gate to hell opening!!!:laugh:
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Thanks,
I've been depressed because of the horrid B+.

Can D.O.s go into the same specialties as M.D.s? I'm especially interested in ophthalmology or radiology.
 
tahdah said:
Thanks,
I've been depressed because of the horrid B+.

Can D.O.s go into the same specialties as M.D.s? I'm especially interested in ophthalmology or radiology.
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Please use the search function to figure out this basic information. People are going to label you as a troll and not answer your questions. Yes a DO can enter any specialty that an MD can.
 
tahdah said:
I'm especially interested in ophthalmology or radiology.
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You and every other pre-med out there. 🙄 Strange that so many are interested, but then so few end up matching into those specialties. Better get used to working your butt off and performing near the top of your class, then, because your interests demand you to be at the very top in medical school, since they are highly competitive fields to match into.
 
spicedmanna said:
You and every other pre-med out there. 🙄 Strange that so many are interested, but then so few end up matching into those specialties. Better get used to working your butt off and performing near the top of your class, then, because your interests demand you to be at the very top in medical school, since they are highly competitive fields to match into.
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Funniest thing is that these specialties are on the way out. According to the ophta and rads boards, it's super saturated and hard to get a good paying job for the former ... and the latter could be looking at up to a 50% reimbursement decrease in the near future. Apparently rads would still be high though. It's all about figuring out what's going to be hot 8-10 years down the road (no pun ).
 
Is it possible to get an MD after receiving a DO? if yes, then how? I heard it's one more year of schooling and then you can get an MD. is that true?
 
Fuzz said:
Is it possible to get an MD after receiving a DO? if yes, then how? I heard it's one more year of schooling and then you can get an MD. is that true?
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Who told you this, a 9 year old? For one - why would you ever need/want both degrees? for two - it would take eight years prior to residency at minimum. again, one would ask why go to the trouble?

So, no. you cannot do that in one year.
 
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Fuzz said:
Is it possible to get an MD after receiving a DO? if yes, then how? I heard it's one more year of schooling and then you can get an MD. is that true?
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Nope, they are equivalent degrees and getting one after the other would be like getting a BS in biology from one school, then going back and getting a BA in biology from a university down the street. Wouldn't do you any good ... you have the full degree you need. There are those cheesy DO to MD programs where you pay for an extra year of school in the Caribbean and get their MD, but it's worthless and makes you look like a joke. Embrace the DO ... it's so god damn hard to get in itself. The closer I get to applying, the more I realize how borderline impossible and absurd this whole process is and the more you realize things like DO vs MD don't matter.
 
I feel like a zombie scavanging the brains of the recent dead when I open up my mailbox in the morning and read this thread.
It's all fun and games until I get mad cow disease!!
 
I'm sure this point has been made before but there's certainly no reason it cannot be made twice.😀

One reason that some people choose D.O. over M.D. schools is that THEY DO TAKE THE WHOLE PERSON INTO CONSIDERATION. But not with their patients (atleast any more than M.D.'s) but with their applicants

I don't know how the rest of you feel, but this whole getting into medical school thing is a ridiculous ordeal. Being expected to maintain a 3.8 gpa in difficult science classes and a 36 on the mcat while getting hundreds of clinical hours, hundreds of volunteer hours, research hours, shadowing, getting to know professors and committees etc. etc. IS DAMN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE. This is especially true if you are what I call a "middle class med student" where you're not fortunate enough to have a parent whos a millionaire C.M.O. or get scholarships for being in a disadvantaged status. Which means you have to work 40+ hours a week to pay for school and care for your family in addition to all of the absurdities of a good med school app

This is not to say that everyone who goes to an M.D. school didn't bust there ass to get in because they did, but it seems that (from talking to current students and seeing school stats) that D.O. schools really are more willing to take into consideration other qualities that can make someone a sucessful physician. Perhaps I'm just crazy but I just don't think having a 4.0 and a 45 on the mcat means that you will be an inherently better Doctor, then the guy who has a 3.4 and a 29.
 
Well... I don't think all allopathic students think d.o.'s are scum. I had the opportunity to go to my state M.D. school, but I like the d.o. route and I really liked my top d.o. school choice better than a state m.d. school. I have friends in m.d. schools that were suprised that I chose d.o., but for the most part have been supportive.... so at least there are a couple people out there thinking logically.🙂
 
One of the first decent postings on reasons to apply DO I've seen in a while, good job!

I tend to agree, I think there's the overall feeling that they tend to look at more aspects of the student than just GPA and MCAT. I did really well on my MCAT but GPA was only ~3.3-3.4 and I had some adcom staff at MD schools I talked to tell me that, just depending on who looked at my app, they may not be able to "get past" the GPA. Like a lot of people I had a rough first year of undergrad and after taking some time off of school, getting some real world experience, maturity, and finally coming back to school and finishing strong it still wasn't going to be enough for some places.

At least here I know we have a fair amount of non-traditionals and I'm constantly impressed by the backgrounds of some of these people.... RN's, PA's, PhD's, 2nd career folks who had successful careers/businesses in other fields, etc....
 
I'm sure this point has been made before but there's certainly no reason it cannot be made twice.😀

One reason that some people choose D.O. over M.D. schools is that THEY DO TAKE THE WHOLE PERSON INTO CONSIDERATION. But not with their patients (atleast any more than M.D.'s) but with their applicants

I don't know how the rest of you feel, but this whole getting into medical school thing is a ridiculous ordeal. Being expected to maintain a 3.8 gpa in difficult science classes and a 36 on the mcat while getting hundreds of clinical hours, hundreds of volunteer hours, research hours, shadowing, getting to know professors and committees etc. etc. IS DAMN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE. This is especially true if you are what I call a "middle class med student" where you're not fortunate enough to have a parent whos a millionaire C.M.O. or get scholarships for being in a disadvantaged status. Which means you have to work 40+ hours a week to pay for school and care for your family in addition to all of the absurdities of a good med school app

This is not to say that everyone who goes to an M.D. school didn't bust there ass to get in because they did, but it seems that (from talking to current students and seeing school stats) that D.O. schools really are more willing to take into consideration other qualities that can make someone a sucessful physician. Perhaps I'm just crazy but I just don't think having a 4.0 and a 45 on the mcat means that you will be an inherently better Doctor, then the guy who has a 3.4 and a 29.
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I both agree and disagree.
I am fortunate not to have had to work during my college life - I have a good GPA and I am well aware that it has a lot to do with being able to focus soley on school. I applied to only D.O. schools because this is what I want to do, it would not matter to me what number score I got on my MCAT ( and for those of you who make some assumption about my score- think what you want).

I have found that not having to have had to work has put me at a disadvantage in some of my interviews. That the basic idea is that someone who has not worked does not have the commitment to become a doctor--just my impression of course.

This is the same form of discernment that solely looking at stats and ECS is, in my opinion.

Schools look for candidates that fit their missions.

I think that this is fair. Maybe not in alignment with my mission 🙂 but fair.
 
futurehealer117 said:
One reason that some people choose D.O. over M.D. schools is that THEY DO TAKE THE WHOLE PERSON INTO CONSIDERATION. But not with their patients (atleast any more than M.D.'s) but with their applicants

I don't know how the rest of you feel, but this whole getting into medical school thing is a ridiculous ordeal. Being expected to maintain a 3.8 gpa in difficult science classes and a 36 on the mcat while getting hundreds of clinical hours, hundreds of volunteer hours, research hours, shadowing, getting to know professors and committees etc. etc. IS DAMN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE. This is especially true if you are what I call a "middle class med student" where you're not fortunate enough to have a parent whos a millionaire C.M.O. or get scholarships for being in a disadvantaged status. Which means you have to work 40+ hours a week to pay for school and care for your family in addition to all of the absurdities of a good med school app

This is not to say that everyone who goes to an M.D. school didn't bust there ass to get in because they did, but it seems that (from talking to current students and seeing school stats) that D.O. schools really are more willing to take into consideration other qualities that can make someone a sucessful physician. Perhaps I'm just crazy but I just don't think having a 4.0 and a 45 on the mcat means that you will be an inherently better Doctor, then the guy who has a 3.4 and a 29.
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Sounds like someone is bitter.

Yeah the cream of the crop couldnt possibly take the whole patient into consideration. Really, people who come out of harvard, hopkins and the like are just plain bad doctors. It must be that schools that have lower stats really take the whole student into consideration too. They also train their students to treat the whole patient.

My school has much lower stats than Harvard. I really doubt that my school takes the whole student into consideration more than harvard; harvard just has a stronger applicant pool to decide from.

Every year the pre-DO kids come out of the wood work and spout off about how holistic DO schools are and how they are much better. Some of this is reaction formation and some they actually believe. Notice that the current DO students are not nearly as adamant... take from that what you will

eek09 said:
The more well known MD schools, as we all know, are numbers only. It doen't matter if you struggled in classes when you started college, have over 6,000 hours in the clinical/hospital setting for PAID experience, have over 200 hours of shadowing, etc, there is no way possible to even get looked at by those schools. I love the fact that DO schools will look at the whole person and not be numbers pushing.

What bugs me is that some allopathic medical students think DO students are scum.
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Wide sweeping generalizations are always right.
 
The reason I chose DO was because I was promised a sexy party:

[youtube]MDX5c3nXexc[/youtube]
 
One of the reasons I appreciate the DO application process is that AACOMAS counts Engineering classes towards science GPA.

ARE YOU AMCAS ASS WIPES GOING TO TRY AND TELL ME THAT CHEMICAL ENGINEERING CLASSES DON'T INVOLVE SCIENCE? Maybe you're right. Definitely no chemistry in seperation technologies, despite spending a month on chromatography.

Definitely no biology in my senior thesis project on "Biocompatibility of nanocomposite resin".

No physics in fluid mechanics or heat transfer.

And definitely no math in kinetics/fluid mechanics/thermodynamics/heat transfer/mass transfer/Unit operations/material balance/EVERYTHING ENGINEERING


Gee maybe engineering shouldn't be counted as science GPA 🙄
 
Instatewaiter said:
Sounds like someone is bitter.

Yeah the cream of the crop couldnt possibly take the whole patient into consideration. Really, people who come out of harvard, hopkins and the like are just plain bad doctors. It must be that schools that have lower stats really take the whole student into consideration too. They also train their students to treat the whole patient.

My school has much lower stats than Harvard. I really doubt that my school takes the whole student into consideration more than harvard; harvard just has a stronger applicant pool to decide from.

Every year the pre-DO kids come out of the wood work and spout off about how holistic DO schools are and how they are much better. Some of this is reaction formation and some they actually believe. Notice that the current DO students are not nearly as adamant... take from that what you will



Uummm....Not quite, but thanks for playing. If you'll re-read my post it said nothing about DO's being superior to MD students, and as far as the "DO's being more holistic", it was said in jest. Whereas you are accurate in saying that some of this is certainly due to M.D. institutions having an infinetely larger applicant pool; My point is that by focusing so highly upon the gpa, many financially less advantaged, (but very passionate and capable) students, who's mommies and daddies cant buy them: cars, apartments, tuition, food, tutoring and $3,000 MCAT prep courses, are disadvantaged at pursuing careers in medicine.


You said that your schools stats are lower than Harvards: Does that automatically make the last place student at Harvard better than the top student in YOUR class? Because the Harvard guy probably had a higher undergrad GPA then the top guy at your school.... 😎

Simply said, extremely high stats seem to reflect much more of a persons privleges than it does there intelligence or commitment and ability to becoming a good doctor (to a point, ovbiously a 1.8 science GPA and a 12 on the mcat probably isn't going to cut it)🙄. But because many M.D. schools eliminate many applicants based upon these often highly inflated and biased measurements, many good people lose out.
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i agree with the above poster. anyone who is actually in DO school will agree that there is nothing more holistic about it than any other MD school would be. believing that DOs are any more special than MDs is a stupid pre-med misconception. we're in medical school and we all learn the same basic crap; DOs just spend an extra 2 hours a week for OMM (where we often end up learning clinical stuff that MDs would just have learn in some other way that wasn't titled "omm").

that being said, i don't think the OP was referring that DOs treat the "whole patient" whereas MDs do not. he was saying that DO schools pay more attention to non academic strengths when either mcat or gpa is a little lacking. this, I do agree with.
 
The real reason? Dont give us all this holistic b.s. It's because we want to go to medical school. They (ADCOMs) know it, you know it, so we can all stop jerking each other off and riding this horse of 'distinction'.
 
I applied because they were the schools I stood the best chance of getting into and I didn't have a couple grand to apply broadly. Now that I'm in and have a future, I couldn't be happier. That being said, perhaps my outlook would be different had I applied to med school straight out of college with higher stats than I had. I actually think DO schools take in the whole application more so than others because that's what they have to work with. The people who apply are on average statistically weaker than your average MD applicant, so they look for other standout qualities in the applicant. And just because DO schools take the whole application into account doesn't mean MD schools don't either. There are many people in MD schools with the same outstanding extracurriculars who didn't let their gpa suffer because of them. Okay? Let's cut the BS. This is not to say there aren't DO applicants with superior stats, because there are. But on average that isn't the case, and it really can't be compared because of the grade replacement.

This crapola--->
Being expected to maintain a 3.8 gpa in difficult science classes and a 36 on the mcat while getting hundreds of clinical hours, hundreds of volunteer hours, research hours, shadowing, getting to know professors and committees etc. etc. IS DAMN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE.
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Is a copout, because there are people who've done it. It also implies that every MD school only accepts people of this caliber, which is untrue.

I don't know what this whole deal of making the degree sound better and more distinct than any other medical degree is about. It's med school. There will be standout students who match into outstanding residencies, there will be crappy students, and everyone in between. The bottom line is that after I graduate I can practice medicine and make a good living.
 
UCSF and other UC med schools aren't a 'shoo-in' for even in-staters.
I've worked with both MDs and DOs. No harsh words exchanged about either party.
I just want to be a physician like the rest of you.
Over and out.
 
futurehealer117 said:
Uummm....Not quite, but thanks for playing. If you'll re-read my post it said nothing about DO's being superior to MD students, and as far as the "DO's being more holistic", it was said in jest. Whereas you are accurate in saying that some of this is certainly due to M.D. institutions having an infinetely larger applicant pool; My point is that by focusing so highly upon the gpa, many financially less advantaged, (but very passionate and capable) students, who's mommies and daddies cant buy them: cars, apartments, tuition, food, tutoring and $3,000 MCAT prep courses, are disadvantaged at pursuing careers in medicine.
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Hmm...I think a high gpa has more to do with hard work and putting grades before anything else. There are other factors that come into play, one of them being financial resources, but you can't make a broad generalization like that. There are rich kids with horrible gpas, who didn't take advantage of the opportunities given them. And let's not imply that the financially disadvantaged don't get into MD schools, because they do.




futurehealer117 said:
Simply said, extremely high stats seem to reflect much more of a persons privleges than it does there intelligence or commitment and ability to becoming a good doctor (to a point, ovbiously a 1.8 science GPA and a 12 on the mcat probably isn't going to cut it)🙄. But because many M.D. schools eliminate many applicants based upon these often highly inflated and biased measurements, many good people lose out.
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"...But because many DO schools eliminate many applicants based upon these often highly inflated and biased measurements, many good people lose out."

My question is, where is the line drawn?
 
I agree in that I think that DO schools are doing a great thing by offering opportunities to outstanding students who would otherwise be overlooked because of numbers. However, I also feel that med school SHOULD be very difficult to get into; we're being trained to be responsible for people's LIVES, and not everyone can do that. That said, I do not think that DO schools should make it easier to get into med school, but rather just transfer focus to other aspects of an application (other than pure numbers) to provide an alternative pathway to getting a medical education. I'm not saying that DO schools aren't already doing that, but many people claim that DO schools are easier to get into because all they see are the numbers, and not these other criteria.

My two cents.
 
futurehealer117 said:
Whereas you are accurate in saying that some of this is certainly due to M.D. institutions having an infinetely larger applicant pool; My point is that by focusing so highly upon the gpa, many financially less advantaged, (but very passionate and capable) students, who's mommies and daddies cant buy them: cars, apartments, tuition, food, tutoring and $3,000 MCAT prep courses, are disadvantaged at pursuing careers in medicine.


You said that your schools stats are lower than Harvards: Does that automatically make the last place student at Harvard better than the top student in YOUR class? Because the Harvard guy probably had a higher undergrad GPA then the top guy at your school.... 😎

Simply said, extremely high stats seem to reflect much more of a persons privilege than it does there intelligence or commitment and ability to becoming a good doctor (to a point, ovbiously a 1.8 science GPA and a 12 on the mcat probably isn't going to cut it)🙄. But because many M.D. schools eliminate many applicants based upon these often highly inflated and biased measurements, many good people lose out.
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Stop making excuses.

MD schools (as well as DO schools) are not made up of privileged people who coast through college. By and large it is made up of hard working people who did well in school and on the MCAT, are personable and have very unique experiences. Many worked through college and did just fine. Most are middle class, many were poor growing up.

When a school gets 5,000-10,000 applicants for a class of 150 they dont have to accept some schmuck with mediocre ECs, a 3.2 and a sub-30 MCAT when they have 10 people with better ECs, better grades, better MCAT and who are easier to talk to. I realize this could hurt some feelings but that's the nature of competition. If you can't compete, fine, but dont come here with some ridiculous excuses and notions about how privilege wrongs people in the application process.

Harvard gets great applicants. Period. Thus they can have the guy with great ECs and incredible experiences. It just happens that this guy also has a 3.9 and 35 on the MCAT.

It is not just about stats. There are handfuls of people in my class with sub-3.0 GPAs as well as those with MCATs in the low 20s. Were it about stats these people never would have had a prayer.
 
Instatewaiter said:
Stop making excuses.

MD schools (as well as DO schools) are not made up of privileged people who coast through college. By and large it is made up of hard working people who did well in school and on the MCAT, are personable and have very unique experiences. Many worked through college and did just fine. Most are middle class, many were poor growing up.

When a school gets 5,000-10,000 applicants for a class of 150 they dont have to accept some schmuck with mediocre ECs, a 3.2 and a sub-30 MCAT when they have 10 people with better ECs, better grades, better MCAT and who are easier to talk to. I realize this could hurt some feelings but that's the nature of competition. If you can't compete, fine, but dont come here with some ridiculous excuses and notions about how privilege wrongs people in the application process.

Harvard gets great applicants. Period. Thus they can have the guy with great ECs and incredible experiences. It just happens that this guy also has a 3.9 and 35 on the MCAT.

It is not just about stats. There are handfuls of people in my class with sub-3.0 GPAs as well as those with MCATs in the low 20s. Were it about stats these people never would have had a prayer.
Click to expand...

Some people like to polarize this subject matter, and it is far from that. The grey area is huge...but because its easier to identify with a polarized opinion, the same song and dance continues.

In summary, I agree with what you're saying.
 
Instatewaiter said:
Sounds like someone is bitter.

Yeah the cream of the crop couldnt possibly take the whole patient into consideration. Really, people who come out of harvard, hopkins and the like are just plain bad doctors. It must be that schools that have lower stats really take the whole student into consideration too. They also train their students to treat the whole patient.

My school has much lower stats than Harvard. I really doubt that my school takes the whole student into consideration more than harvard; harvard just has a stronger applicant pool to decide from.

Every year the pre-DO kids come out of the wood work and spout off about how holistic DO schools are and how they are much better. Some of this is reaction formation and some they actually believe. Notice that the current DO students are not nearly as adamant... take from that what you will



Wide sweeping generalizations are always right.
Click to expand...

I'm tired of the B.S. about DO schools having lower stats (GPA and MCAT)…..


First of all, people say MD schools as if all of them are the same, there are over 120 MD schools out of which the top 20 schools (e.g. Harvard, Hopkins, etc.) admit people with relatively very high GPA and MCAT scores then they are lumped into other MD schools which raises the overall average for no reason. For example Hopkins admits student with a MCAT average of 35 and your "average state MD school" (the other 120 schools) admit folks with a MCAT average of 27-29. So if you exclude the top 20 schools from the MD averages the actual MCAT average goes down to about 28 (+/-1) for your run of the mill MD school as opposed to your DO schools that admit students with MCAT averages of 26 (+/-1). Also keep in mind that DO schools admit more non-trads. than MD schools, that in my opinion are great assets to medicine and have exceptional previous medical experiences but usually lower MCAT scores due to the hiatus between their basic science classes and the date of their MCAT exam.


So there is only 1-2 points difference between the average MCAT scores of DO schools and most of the MD schools. Do you really think 1-2 points difference is a difference???? You can take a B.S. $3000 MCAT course and raise your score by 1-2 points so it's hardly an indication of intelligence.



As far as GPA is concerned, it's a B.S. way to measure someone because is dependent on so many factors other than the individual's intellectual ability. Do you think an engineering graduate with a 3.5 is less intellectual than a let's say political science (no disrespect) graduate with a 3.8???? if you or anyone thinks so, I encourage you and them to sit in a Calc. IV class (which is a PRE-engineering class) then we can continue our discussion. Furthermore, it's highly dependent on the school which the applicant attended. So for all the abovementioned reasons and many others GPA is not a great measuring factor.


FYI, I'm not a pre-DO student but a very proud DO-student who had acceptances from both DO and MD schools and chose to attend a DO school.
 
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