Meeting with someone from medical board coming up - tips?

[j4pac]

You can go ahead a read my previous posts. Of course BC certified doc will open more doors, but you can also make a good living as a GP. I lived in south FL (not rural America) and GPs were EVERYWHERE. I am friends with a few.

Perhaps why Miami Dade has the highest malpractice rate in the country? You need to keep that type of stuff to yourself. Lol The last things I need is more incompetent physicians being driven to my state to increase our already insane rates.

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[Splenda88]

Perhaps why Miami Dade has the highest malpractice rate in the country? You need to keep that type of stuff to yourself. Lol The last things I need is more incompetent physicians being driven to my state to increase our already insane rates.

Lol.

 

[rokshana]

To be fair, @Splenda88 has been quite the curious george poking around all sorts of forums I imagine. NP/PA forums, I'm sure he/she looks at attending forums, physician job forums, etc.

You mean like staying at a holiday inn can make you a doctor?

I have seen his posts and I am sure he comes from a good place... but you dont know, what you don’t know... think about what you thought clinical rotations were going to be like as a 2nd year and what you actually realized and learned when you eventually were a 3rd year...or what you thought being an intern would be like with yourself knowledge as a sub I and what was the actuality when you became an intern...it’s the same...that first year as an attending is eye opening and the learning curve is steep!

there are easier ways and harder ways to practice medicine... it not be board eligible or certified is a big hurdle... can it be overcome? Sure, but not easy.

 

[Redpancreas]

You mean like staying at a holiday inn can make you a doctor?

I have seen his posts and I am sure he comes from a good place... but you dont know, what you don’t know... think about what you thought clinical rotations were going to be like as a 2nd year and what you actually realized and learned when you eventually were a 3rd year...or what you thought being an intern would be like with yourself knowledge as a sub I and what was the actuality when you became an intern...it’s the same...that first year as an attending is eye opening and the learning curve is steep!

there are easier ways and harder ways to practice medicine... it not be board eligible or certified is a big hurdle... can it be overcome? Sure, but not easy.

Thanks for this.

 

[Splenda88]

You mean like staying at a holiday inn can make you a doctor?

I have seen his posts and I am sure he comes from a good place... but you dont know, what you don’t know... think about what you thought clinical rotations were going to be like as a 2nd year and what you actually realized and learned when you eventually were a 3rd year...or what you thought being an intern would be like with yourself knowledge as a sub I and what was the actuality when you became an intern...it’s the same...that first year as an attending is eye opening and the learning curve is steep!

there are easier ways and harder ways to practice medicine... it not be board eligible or certified is a big hurdle... can it be overcome? Sure, but not easy.

Glad you agree with me. You are not saying anything that people don't know.

 

[Redpancreas]

Glad you agree with me. You are not saying anything that people don't know.

What I got from it was that in practice, we don't know what know what we don't know until we live the life of an attending (kind of knew that, but a cognitive reminder).

 

[Mass Effect]

That’s true. While psych is competitive it is not a medical emergency and typically (and no offense) psych prelims are the ones with the least expectations. OP, that’s another option I guess...

This is inaccurate. There are a lot of medical emergencies in psych and anyone who carries something in his letter of departure about not being able to recognize medical emergencies will likely be screwed at the vast majority of residency programs.

NMS, catatonia, serotonin syndrome, suicide attempt (usually by hanging), and overdose are all psych-related potentially fatal medical emergencies. Not to mention there are a lot of medical emergencies on the inpatient psych unit. A psychiatry resident is not expected to manage the emergencies, but they are very much expected to recognize the emergency and begin treatment while putting out a call for another service. We have people seize on the psych unit, people in acute withdrawal, people have heart attacks, people have strokes, people fall (more often than they should frankly thanks to polypharmacy in many cases), and a psych resident needs to be able to recognize all of these things and start whatever treatment protocol. Plus, there are restraints that could also go wrong. Residents typically spend much of PGY 1 and PGY 2 year on the inpatient units. They also do nightfloat and weekend calls on their own on the inpatient unit. They have to be able to handle emergencies. They don't just sit on their hands and wait for medicine (or for an ambulance if it's a free-standing psych unit).

 

[Mass Effect]

What is there to worry about? The people you’re going to see are usually in absolutely no shape to be able to do anything to you even if they wanted to (not that they do). They are just patients that need help and for whatever reason can’t get it out of their home. If you get to a home and it seems like it’s unsafe, you just don’t go in.

Meh, I'd never take a job where I had to go into people's homes. Even if the ill person can't do anything, you don't know who else is in the home. But then, I'm psych and spent more time than most on forensics. I've heard horror stories.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Meh, I'd never take a job where I had to go into people's homes. Even if the ill person can't do anything, you don't know who else is in the home. But then, I'm psych and spent more time than most on forensics. I've heard horror stories.

My wife did it for over a year and literally had zero problems. None of the people she worked with ever did either. Most people aren’t looking to hurt you, but after doing my month of psych I can see why you’d think that way.

 

[Mass Effect]

My wife did it for over a year and literally had zero problems. None of the people she worked with ever did either. Most people aren’t looking to hurt you, but after doing my month of psych I can see why you’d think that way.

That's great for your wife. Most people walking home at night have no issue either, but there are some who do. The point is everyone has different comfort levels. Antisocial personalities exist in the world as do people with substance use disorders. They're not particularly nice or friendly and if I'm going to treat their family member, it won't be in their house.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

That's great for your wife. Most people walking home at night have no issue either, but there are some who do. The point is everyone has different comfort levels. Antisocial personalities exist in the world as do people with substance use disorders. They're not particularly nice or friendly and if I'm going to treat their family member, it won't be in their house.

Uh wow. Why are you always so overly reactionary?

 

[Mass Effect]

Uh wow. Why are you always so overly reactionary?

Overly reactionary? What? You're telling people they're overreacting because your wife was fine and I'm merely pointing out that's great, but not everyone is the same. How exactly is that overly reactionary?

 

[Apollyon]

Overly reactionary? What? You're telling people they're overreacting because your wife was fine and I'm merely pointing out that's great, but not everyone is the same. How exactly is that overly reactionary?

You're not. That's not on you.

 

[Splenda88]

What I got from it was that in practice, we don't know what know what we don't know until we live the life of an attending (kind of knew that, but a cognitive reminder).

Everyone should know that... because it will be a different role. Again, with a GP license, most doors will be closed but you will have the ability to make a good living.

The poster was not saying anything you and I did not know. Some people in SDN just want to be contrarian for no reason.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Meh, I'd never take a job where I had to go into people's homes. Even if the ill person can't do anything, you don't know who else is in the home. But then, I'm psych and spent more time than most on forensics. I've heard horror stories.

We have an enormous number of home health workers: nurses, PT, wound care and so on.

How often are they attacked? I don't know the answer but it should be easy to find if it's significant.

 

[Mass Effect]

We have an enormous number of home health workers: nurses, PT, wound care and so on.

How often are they attacked? I don't know the answer but it should be easy to find if it's significant.

I'm sure it's not significant, but that's my point. That's why I said to the other poster that ithat's great that his wife wasn't attacked. That was sincere. The vast majority of the time, you'll be fine. But everyone has different levels of comfort and don't want to take unnecessary risks, even if small. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Overly reactionary? What? You're telling people they're overreacting because your wife was fine and I'm merely pointing out that's great, but not everyone is the same. How exactly is that overly reactionary?

Maybe it’s just the nature of the medium, but your reactions to people disagreeing with you, or even sometimes agreeing with you, often read overly reactionary to me. It’s hard to read tone sometimes, and when a phrase is almost always used with a certain tone in your experience, I think it’s natural to just read that tone into a text.

For example, you said “that’s great for your wife” I read that in a very “good for you” kind of tone, since that’s how people in my life have always said that kind of phrase. But maybe you didn’t mean it like that at all.

Edit: and actually, what I said was in my wife’s experience (and her coworkers), there’s no reason to be scared of violence, but given what you do for a living I totally understand why you feel the way you do. Not sure how that is saying you’re overreacting since I literally said I understand why you think that way.

 

[Mass Effect]

This is going to be my last post on this topic because the OP needs advice and I don't want to hijack the thread.

Maybe it’s just the nature of the medium, but your reactions to people disagreeing with you, or even sometimes agreeing with you, often read overly reactionary to me.

Maybe focus on what I'm saying in this thread rather than assuming a reaction that wasn't there? I get heated about politics and the like, but I am not aware of being overly reactionary in any regular SDN threads, even ones that turn contentious. And in case there's any doubt, I am not being at all catty or snotty in saying that. I am giving literal advice to make communication easier.

It’s hard to read tone sometimes, and when a phrase is almost always used with a certain tone in your experience, I think it’s natural to just read that tone into a text

I mean, that's fine and all, but it's not fair to me for you to project a tone in what I'm saying just because others have used a tone in your experience.

For example, you said “that’s great for your wife” I read that in a very “good for you” kind of tone, since that’s how people in my life have always said that kind of phrase. But maybe you didn’t mean it like that at all.

Except I didn't mean it in a "good for you" kind of tone, regardless of what people in your life have said. Again, it's not fair for you to assume a certain tone I supposedly used because of other people. Instead of assuming, maybe ask?

Edit: and actually, what I said was in my wife’s experience (and her coworkers), there’s no reason to be scared of violence, but given what you do for a living I totally understand why you feel the way you do. Not sure how that is saying you’re overreacting since I literally said I understand why you think that way

I was talking about your response to others, not me.

And with that, I'm done with this side convo.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

This is going to be my last post on this topic because the OP needs advice and I don't want to hijack the thread.



Maybe focus on what I'm saying in this thread rather than assuming a reaction that wasn't there? I get heated about politics and the like, but I am not aware of being overly reactionary in any regular SDN threads, even ones that turn contentious. And in case there's any doubt, I am not being at all catty or snotty in saying that. I am giving literal advice to make communication easier.



I mean, that's fine and all, but it's not fair to me for you to project a tone in what I'm saying just because others have used a tone in your experience.



Except I didn't mean it in a "good for you" kind of tone, regardless of what people in your life have said. Again, it's not fair for you to assume a certain tone I supposedly used because of other people. Instead of assuming, maybe ask?



I was talking about your response to others, not me.

And with that, I'm done with this side convo.

Lord. Okay. Moving on.

 

[IonClaws]

Pre-tax, I got up to 8-9 people a day, 5 days a week. That would be $4000-4500 per week on average. Sometimes it was less, so I'd get maybe $3000 a week, but I'd say average was around $4k. This is several years ago, though.

I got just under $2000 for one week's work. ThoracicGuy probably had a better area than I did.

The reason why i ask is because some boards have a specific question under the license application "Have you ever been the subject of an investigation by any licensing board?"

Hey guys, just thought I'd share some updates...
The medical board secretary and some assistants (can't recall the exact terminology) met June 9th and finally posted disciplinary actions last week. I was not named in the document nor have I received any letters or other communications from the board. My lawyer says that's a good sign, but then again, I still haven't gotten my medical license. It's a busy time due to all the residents graduating but still frustrating.
Apparently no one from the board has contacted my residency per my PD, so I guess that's a good sign? I just hope they grant my license by August (that's when my signed releases for my physicians and I believe my residency expire).

 

[Crayola227]

Ok. I take it you are a guy though right ---> ThoracicGUY? i am not sure i'd feel comfortable doing that as a woman

Honestly you're not really a big target for any sickos as they tend to premeditate, and victims that have a work appointment that can be confirmed by an outside company are a very poor choice of victim for trying to get away with anything.

 

[Crayola227]

Will be starting residency with an unrestricted license. Does that mean if something were to happen, I would incur more liability than if I had a training license? Very interested to hear this.

Your career is very much in greater jeopardy if you are never able later to get an unrestricted license because of any weirdness with your PD or whatever else, than what almost any lawsuit can do to you, especially with someone with demonstrably more legal liability than you def being on the hook too.

I'd be way more worried about not having that unrestricted license than any theoretical lawsuit while still in residency.

Recalibrate your brains to the real risk here.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Hey guys, just thought I'd share some updates...
The medical board secretary and some assistants (can't recall the exact terminology) met June 9th and finally posted disciplinary actions last week. I was not named in the document nor have I received any letters or other communications from the board. My lawyer says that's a good sign, but then again, I still haven't gotten my medical license. It's a busy time due to all the residents graduating but still frustrating.
Apparently no one from the board has contacted my residency per my PD, so I guess that's a good sign? I just hope they grant my license by August (that's when my signed releases for my physicians and I believe my residency expire).

Good luck--appendages crossed for you! Please keep us updated!

 

[futureapppsy2]

Any updates, @IonClaws ?

 

[Bollinger_MD]

Hey guys,

After nearly 2 months I've been contacted about my medical license application from someone from the medical board (Ohio). We are going to meet in person.
I'm assuming this is about my probation and non renewal from residency, though the person who contacted me did not want to discuss it over the phone.
Any tips for how to prepare for or approach this?

You need an attorney that works regularly with the medical board so that you don’t have lasting detrimental effects from this process. Good luck!

 

[IonClaws]

Any updates, @IonClaws ?

Some updates...unfortunately they are wanting to extend the investigation for at least 3 more months, they are starting by asking me the same questions they did before but this time it's from a board lawyer. My lawyer knows this board lawyer and works with him a lot, but unfortunately he says most likely the board is wanting some kind of restrictions, which I can't have, otherwise my license will be next to useless...
I am starting to think medicine was the wrong career choice for me...

 

[Bollinger_MD]

Some updates...unfortunately they are wanting to extend the investigation for at least 3 more months, they are starting by asking me the same questions they did before but this time it's from a board lawyer. My lawyer knows this board lawyer and works with him a lot, but unfortunately he says most likely the board is wanting some kind of restrictions, which I can't have, otherwise my license will be next to useless...
I am starting to think medicine was the wrong career choice for me...

What is happening to you reflects the individuals on your medical board more than it reflects you and your decision to pursue medicine. Stay strong and keep your head up! Surround yourself with people that you can talk to when you need someone. Don’t let all of the hard work you have put to get to where you are be sabotaged by the malicious acts of someone else.

 

[Mass Effect]

What is happening to you reflects the individuals on your medical board more than it reflects you and your decision to pursue medicine. Stay strong and keep your head up! Surround yourself with people that you can talk to when you need someone. Don’t let all of the hard work you have put to get to where you are be sabotaged by the malicious acts of someone else.

Hold on, what makes you think the board is being malicious or sabotaging the resident? I understand that residents who get terminated or in trouble are always made out to the be the victims, but many of us have witnessed egregious acts by residents who deserved to be under a microscope. Don't assume that just because someone's in trouble, it means they're being sabotaged.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Hold on, what makes you think the board is being malicious or sabotaging the resident? I understand that residents who get terminated or in trouble are always made out to the be the victims, but many of us have witnessed egregious acts by residents who deserved to be under a microscope. Don't assume that just because someone's in trouble, it means they're being sabotaged.

But isn’t this about him trying to get his medical license? He completed like 3 years of residency didn’t he?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

But isn’t this about him trying to get his medical license? He completed like 3 years of residency didn’t he?

Yes, but his program director is unwilling to help him get into any other field that actually involves sick patients. That, rightfully, gives the medical board pause.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yes, but his program director is unwilling to help him get into any other field that actually involves sick patients. That, rightfully, gives the medical board pause.

Ah so because the PD doesn’t want to help him out, it’s raising red flags.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Ah so because the PD doesn’t want to help him out, it’s raising red flags.

That's what this thread seems to indicate from what I can gather. Could easily be wrong though.

 

[rokshana]

Ah so because the PD doesn’t want to help him out, it’s raising red flags.

He did 3 out of 4 years of residency… he didn’t complete the residency because he wasn’t advanced to the 4th year due to concerns of the program on his clinical abilities.

 

[Splenda88]

Yes, but his program director is unwilling to help him get into any other field that actually involves sick patients. That, rightfully, gives the medical board pause.

There aren't many specialties where one won't be dealing with sick patients. Maybe Op should try to get into preventive medicine.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Ah so because the PD doesn’t want to help him out, it’s raising red flags.

That's what this thread seems to indicate from what I can gather. Could easily be wrong though.

IIRC, his PD will support him for applying for other residencies but only in occupational/preventative med, presumably due to concerns about his ability to work outside of a clinic setting.

 

[Mass Effect]

But isn’t this about him trying to get his medical license? He completed like 3 years of residency didn’t he?

To be clear, the poster is saying they may grant him a license with restrictions. If he was terminated after 3 years of residency, I don't think we can assume that putting restrictions on his license is evidence of sabotage which is what I was respond to. Sure it sucks. But it doesn't mean that someone's out to get him.

 

[Splenda88]

To be clear, the poster is saying they may grant him a license with restrictions. If he was terminated after 3 years of residency, I don't think we can assume that putting restrictions on his license is evidence of sabotage which is what I was respond to. Sure it sucks. But it doesn't mean that someone's out to get him.

Don't you think it's odd that they let him/her complete 3 yrs out of 4?

I don't know how neurology residency is structured, but when I was a PGY2 in IM, I was managing patients admitted from the ED on my own (with interns writing the notes) until my attending see these patients the next day. I would be shocked if OP was not making SOME decisions on his/her own without direct attending input at some point during PGY3.

 

[Mass Effect]

Don't you think it's odd that they let him/her complete 3 yrs out of 4?

I don't know how neurology residency is structured, but when I was a PGY2 in IM, I was managing patients admitted from the ED on my own (with interns writing the notes) until my attending see these patients the next day. I would be shocked if OP was not making SOME decisions on his/her own without direct attending input at some point during PGY3.

No, I don't. So often, attendings and even PD's are too nice. They allow things to slide because they dont' want to wreck someone's career and most things aren't significant enough to terminate a resident over. Remediation, sure. But termination? Naw. Until it happens, that huge thing that's too egregious to look the other way and/or they fail remediation and/or people freak out that this person is about to graduate and they're incompetent. Any PD worth his salt knows that they're vouching for the skills of every person they graduate. If someone sucks as a PGY 1, there's time to improve. Sucks as a PGY 2? We'll remediate him and he'll be good. Suck as a PGY 3 and people start to really worry.

 

[Splenda88]

No, I don't. So often, attendings and even PD's are too nice. They allow things to slide because they dont' want to wreck someone's career and most things aren't significant enough to terminate a resident over. Remediation, sure. But termination? Naw. Until it happens, that huge thing that's too egregious to look the other way and/or they fail remediation and/or people freak out that this person is about to graduate and they're incompetent. Any PD worth his salt knows that they're vouching for the skills of every person they graduate. If someone sucks as a PGY 1, there's time to improve. Sucks as a PGY 2? We'll remediate him and he'll be good. Suck as a PGY 3 and people start to really worry.

Yeah, but I think they should have let OP go thru a remediation process after PGY1/PGY2 instead of allow him to advance as a PGY3 and then terminate him/her.

Anyway, I think the PD should help OP to get a license. It's not like OP is gonna have hospital privilege where he/she will take care of truly sick patients. Getting a license without completing residency is a restricted license by default.

 

[rokshana]

Anyway, I think the PD should help OP to get a license. It's not like OP is gonna have hospital privilege where he/she will take care of truly sick patients. Getting a license without completing residency is a restricted license by default.

Actually, it’s not…there are states that give a full UN restricted license with only one year of training…it is no different than the full license given to someone who completes a residency…and with a unrestricted license, they can apply for privileges anywhere.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Actually, it’s not…there are states that give a full UN restricted license with only one year of training…it is no different than the full license given to someone who completes a residency…and with a unrestricted license, they can apply for privileges anywhere.

Exactly. I got my full SC license 7 months into my PGY-2 year. That license has not changed in any way since that time. It carried the same legal authority then as it does now.

 

[Splenda88]

Actually, it’s not…there are states that give a full UN restricted license with only one year of training…it is no different than the full license given to someone who completes a residency…and with a unrestricted license, they can apply for privileges anywhere.

I know that since I got an unrestricted license into my PGY2. What I was trying to say is that even if you have a FULL license, that does not mean you will get hospital privilege because hospitals ask for board eligibility. That's why I said the license is somewhat restricted by default.

I just hate seeing someone completed 11 yrs of training and cant even work in urgent care, prisons, IHS, health departments etc...

 

[Mass Effect]

I know that since I got an unrestricted license into my PGY2. What I was trying to say is that even if you have a FULL license, that does not mean you will get hospital privilege because hospitals ask for board eligibility. That's why I said the license is somewhat restricted by default.

I just hate seeing someone completed 11 yrs of training and cant even work in urgent care, prisons, IHS, health departments etc...

This is what I mean about people being too nice. This is how it happens when we see someone being terminated after PGY 3 year. The "I just hate seeing someone..." mantra has time and place and I agree it sucks. But with a full license, you can absolutely get hospital privileges and especially urgent care, even without being board eligible. So let me ask this -- if your mom went to urgent care for any reason, would you want her doctor there to be someone who was not allowed to complete residency because he was clinically incompetent?

 

[rokshana]

Don't you think it's odd that they let him/her complete 3 yrs out of 4?

I don't know how neurology residency is structured, but when I was a PGY2 in IM, I was managing patients admitted from the ED on my own (with interns writing the notes) until my attending see these patients the next day. I would be shocked if OP was not making SOME decisions on his/her own without direct attending input at some point during PGY3.

And apparently they were not appropriate decisions…
His PD is supportive of him going into a residency that doesn’t have lot of clinical interaction with pt care… but not one with.

 

[Splenda88]

This is what I mean about people being too nice. This is how it happens when we see someone being terminated after PGY 3 year. The "I just hate seeing someone..." mantra has time and place and I agree it sucks. But with a full license, you can absolutely get hospital privileges and especially urgent care, even without being board eligible. So let me ask this -- if your mom went to urgent care for any reason, would you want her doctor there to be someone who was not allowed to complete residency because he was clinically incompetent?

I would take that doctor over an NP

I just got to advocate for my fellow MD/DOs in this sh***y system in which we are the only ones who got scrutinized.

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See...

 

[Mass Effect]

I would take that doctor over an NP

Most of the time, it's not from a shortage of doctors that NPs get hired so that isn't really relevant, not to mention you're assuming a person who literally got terminated for clinical incompetence is somehow competent enough not to kill/harm your loved one.

 

[Splenda88]

Most of the time, it's not from a shortage of doctors that NPs get hired so that isn't really relevant, not to mention you're assuming a person who literally got terminated for clinical incompetence is somehow competent enough not to kill/harm your loved one.

Why let him/her complete 3 yrs with no remediation if he/she was that dangerous? It makes no sense IMO.

 

[LucidSplash]

I would take that doctor over an NP

I just got to advocate for my fellow MD/DOs in this sh***y system in which we are the only ones who got scrutinized.

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See...

False equivalency fallacy.

The answer should be NEITHER.

 

[Bollinger_MD]

Hold on, what makes you think the board is being malicious or sabotaging the resident? I understand that residents who get terminated or in trouble are always made out to the be the victims, but many of us have witnessed egregious acts by residents who deserved to be under a microscope. Don't assume that just because someone's in trouble, it means they're being sabotaged.

1) Your baseless suggestion that "residents who get terminated or in trouble are always made out to the be the victims" shows your ineptitude with respect to this topic. With all of the training you received on evidence-based medicine, I would think that you might do some research before you make brash suggestions about a constituency of people that you clearly have no understanding of. Painting any group of people with broad strokes of criticism and disdain using absolute terms, such as "always," serves no purpose to this discussion other than to degrade the content of this post to a senseless back-and-forth of biased speculations based upon singular events that in no way help the OP or any others reading its content other than to reinforce bias and perpetuate baseless assumptions.

There aren't many specialties where one won't be dealing with sick patients. Maybe Op should try to get into preventive medicine.

Occupational medicine and preventative medicine are one of the only ways that disenfranchised physicians are able to become "board-certified" in something so that they can practice medicine.

To be clear, the poster is saying they may grant him a license with restrictions. If he was terminated after 3 years of residency, I don't think we can assume that putting restrictions on his license is evidence of sabotage which is what I was respond to. Sure it sucks. But it doesn't mean that someone's out to get him.

1) Having a restricted license without board-certification has drastic career implications. Dismissing the severity of this reality by saying "it sucks" is not only disrespectful, it is reckless and ignorant.
2) Taking the singular point of issuing a restricted license out-of-context and inferring that I suggested that it was evidence of sabotage by the medical board is not only narrow-minded, it is downright pathetic. You yet again illustrate your bias and lack of insight into this topic.

No, I don't. So often, attendings and even PD's are too nice. They allow things to slide because they dont' want to wreck someone's career and most things aren't significant enough to terminate a resident over. Remediation, sure. But termination? Naw. Until it happens, that huge thing that's too egregious to look the other way and/or they fail remediation and/or people freak out that this person is about to graduate and they're incompetent. Any PD worth his salt knows that they're vouching for the skills of every person they graduate. If someone sucks as a PGY 1, there's time to improve. Sucks as a PGY 2? We'll remediate him and he'll be good. Suck as a PGY 3 and people start to really worry

1) Making a generalization that attendings and PDs are "too nice" has no relevance to this discussion.
2) Your point about a PD vouching for the skills of every person they graduate is valid. But why not give another PD in the same specialty the opportunity to evaluate a residents qualifications by allowing that resident to transfer to another program? What harm would come from a resident finding success in another program?
3) Instead of receiving assistance finding another opportunity, the resident in question now cannot even obtain a medical license to maintain an income while struggling to find a way to continue his training. Every month that the medical board delays his licensure is a month that he is unable to obtain income.

Exactly. I got my full SC license 7 months into my PGY-2 year. That license has not changed in any way since that time. It carried the same legal authority then as it does now.

Legal authority means little without board-certification. It is impossible to comprehend, unless you have personally been in that situation.

I know that since I got an unrestricted license into my PGY2. What I was trying to say is that even if you have a FULL license, that does not mean you will get hospital privilege because hospitals ask for board eligibility. That's why I said the license is somewhat restricted by default.

I just hate seeing someone completed 11 yrs of training and cant even work in urgent care, prisons, IHS, health departments etc...

This is the most insightful comment that has been made on this topic. Without completion of an ACGME-accredited residency program and board-certification/eligibility, you will not be hired. While most places will cite insurance reasons, I have yet to come across any policy that states either of these as a requirement. However, the time and energy it takes for employers to explore this non-traditional pathway can be perceived as overly burdensome and impede these individuals from gaining employment. The options for these physicians are thus few and far between.

This is what I mean about people being too nice. This is how it happens when we see someone being terminated after PGY 3 year. The "I just hate seeing someone..." mantra has time and place and I agree it sucks. But with a full license, you can absolutely get hospital privileges and especially urgent care, even without being board eligible. So let me ask this -- if your mom went to urgent care for any reason, would you want her doctor there to be someone who was not allowed to complete residency because he was clinically incompetent?

Thank you for yet again showing your ineptitude by suggesting that every resident that is terminated, issued a restricted license, etc is "clinically incompetent". I don't even have words for how appalling this statement is.

Why let him/her complete 3 yrs with no remediation if he/she was that dangerous? It makes no sense IMO.

One reason among many: When there isn't justification for termination, it takes time to build a paper trail robust enough to either coerce residents to resign and prevent them from successfully appealing any decision of termination or contract non-renewal.

 

[rokshana]

Why let him/her complete 3 yrs with no remediation if he/she was that dangerous? It makes no sense IMO.

What makes you think there was no remediation?
They probably were really trying to help him fix the problems , until it was realized that the problem was he didn’t have the appropriate clinical judgement…I’m all for supporting those physicians and not increasing mid level encroachment… but I’m not for unqualified physician being passed through just because they completed Med school… we have to be held to a high standard…it’s not a thin blue line here…physicians that can’t manage pt are dangerous and getting a medical license should not be rubber stamped.