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I am a student at Midwestern University in Arizona. I need to warn everyone thinking about applying to Midwestern. My advice is to pick another school. Midwestern treats its students horribly. They do not allow students to use the bathroom during 2-3 hour long tests, which occur 2-3 times a week on average. If you have to leave the room, you will fail the test and they can charge you for another year that you have to repeat. Their policy of no bathroom access is very dangerous for the health of the students. Not only does holding it increase the risk of developing UTIs, but students will be forced to restrict their water intake before exams, which is very dangerous in a dry desert where temperatures reach above 120 degrees.

They say this is to prevent cheating, but when a student who was a family friend of the assistant dean was caught emailing old tests to other students over the university email account, the student just received a warning, rather than be expelled. My advice to all prospective students is to pick another school. You can do much better than Midwestern, which treats its students worse than prisoners are treated under the Geneva Convention.
 
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gwarm01

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I'm pretty sure I couldn't leave the room during any of my exams either. This probably isn't that uncommon.
 
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What the hell test in pharmacy school tales 3 hours? The NAPLEX doesn't take that long, does it?

That's another thing. WTF is up with all the people that took more than like 45 minutes to get a test done? I never understood that. I just went in...looked at the questions...answered them. I never really doubted myself. I got a physical pharmacy (physical chemistry) test designed to take an hour done in 18 minutes one time. One of two academic achievements I'm proud of.
 
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CetiAlphaFive

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I am a student at Midwestern University in Arizona. I need to warn everyone thinking about applying to Midwestern. My advice is to pick another school. Midwestern treats its students horribly. They do not allow students to use the bathroom during 2-3 hour long tests, which occur 2-3 times a week on average. If you have to leave the room, you will fail the test and they can charge you for another year that you have to repeat. Their policy of no bathroom access is very dangerous for the health of the students. Not only does holding it increase the risk of developing UTIs, but students will be forced to restrict their water intake before exams, which is very dangerous in a dry desert where temperatures reach above 120 degrees.

They say this is to prevent cheating, but when a student who was a family friend of the assistant dean was caught emailing old tests to other students over the university email account, the student just received a warning, rather than be expelled. My advice to all prospective students is to pick another school. You can do much better than Midwestern, which treats its students worse than prisoners are treated under the Geneva Convention.

It would be interesting to allow students unlimited bathroom trips during one exam as a pilot, and to include a few questions not covered anywhere in the lectures, notes, or textbook.
The exam proctor could make note of who went to the restroom, and then see if they're the only people who got those trick questions right
 
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Sparda29

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I mean, they allowed us bathroom breaks during the NAPLEX, the MPJE and the NYS Part III exams. Smartphones in 2012 were still a little iffy and data speeds weren't really fast enough that you could use them to cheat.

But yeah, I was usually the last one to enter the exam room (the policy for being late to an exam was that you lost the time you missed) but still the first one out. If I don't know an answer I use eeiny-meanie-miny-mo and move on.
 

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Good practice for CVS. Get used to working 12 hours straight without eating or using the bathroom!
 
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I am a student at Midwestern University in Arizona. I need to warn everyone thinking about applying to Midwestern. My advice is to pick another school. Midwestern treats its students horribly. They do not allow students to use the bathroom during 2-3 hour long tests, which occur 2-3 times a week on average. If you have to leave the room, you will fail the test and they can charge you for another year that you have to repeat. Their policy of no bathroom access is very dangerous for the health of the students. Not only does holding it increase the risk of developing UTIs, but students will be forced to restrict their water intake before exams, which is very dangerous in a dry desert where temperatures reach above 120 degrees.

They say this is to prevent cheating, but when a student who was a family friend of the assistant dean was caught emailing old tests to other students over the university email account, the student just received a warning, rather than be expelled. My advice to all prospective students is to pick another school. You can do much better than Midwestern, which treats its students worse than prisoners are treated under the Geneva Convention.


Lol, I think there's a ton of pharm schools that do this. My school did the same exact thing. Go figure.
 
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I mean, they allowed us bathroom breaks during the NAPLEX, the MPJE and the NYS Part III exams. Smartphones in 2012 were still a little iffy and data speeds weren't really fast enough that you could use them to cheat.

But yeah, I was usually the last one to enter the exam room (the policy for being late to an exam was that you lost the time you missed) but still the first one out. If I don't know an answer I use eeiny-meanie-miny-mo and move on.

Huh, NYS part 3 we were not allowed to do so back in 2014...must be cracking down.
 

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What the hell test in pharmacy school tales 3 hours? The NAPLEX doesn't take that long, does it?

That's another thing. WTF is up with all the people that took more than like 45 minutes to get a test done? I never understood that. I just went in...looked at the questions...answered them. I never really doubted myself. I got a physical pharmacy (physical chemistry) test designed to take an hour done in 18 minutes one time. One of two academic achievements I'm proud of.

It's a 6hr exam (NAPLEX)...
 
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They say this is to prevent cheating, but when a student who was a family friend of the assistant dean was caught emailing old tests to other students over the university email account, the student just received a warning, rather than be expelled.

This is more of a problem than students going to the restroom and looking up the answers. But of course your professors are too busy rounding with the medical team and don't have the time to write new questions.

What is the need of studying when you already have the questions beforehand?



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VA77

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Think your school is just preparing you for the real world. 1 break during Naplex. The word break don't exist in retail. Cheating and favoritism...lol...grow up.
 

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If you're seriously taking three hours on an Integrated Sequence exam, you're really asking to fail. The vast majority of my old class completed before an hour. We all knew that the ones who time was called on were functionally illiterate and that the three hours was purely just for ADA accommodation. And yes, there was and is a huge cheating problem at the school, because the profs are too lazy to change questions. If you specifically have Joie Rowles (the pharmacologist who reads at a dead monotone from her notes), I can say that she hasn't changed her test questions in 15 years from having one of the residents complain to me about questions that I remember having back then.

Should consider changing the title to "Midwestern University Treats Its Students Like Breathing ATMs", because that tuition is something else.
 
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trailerpark

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Getting questions from past exams isn't cheating. I did it for all of undergrad and pharmacy school. It's pretty standard. If you don't get the questions obviously you don't know anyone or no one likes you.


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zelman

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Getting questions from past exams isn't cheating. I did it for all of undergrad and pharmacy school. It's pretty standard. If you don't get the questions obviously you don't know anyone or no one likes you.


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This is not a black and white issue. Getting old exams is a grey area unless they are explicitly available to everyone.
 

lord999

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Getting questions from past exams isn't cheating. I did it for all of undergrad and pharmacy school. It's pretty standard. If you don't get the questions obviously you don't know anyone or no one likes you.


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I'm ok with it when everyone has equal access to them (I always give my old exams with full keys to all students, and since about half of my questions are free-response structured, I actually will say exactly which questions in some exams will appear on the upcoming one, because I want the material rote memorized by the students), but I'm not ok if they are not. From the teaching side, if a professor reuses old exams all the time, you'll get people memorizing the questions and assembling a test bank. Both frats at both schools that I know really well were well-known for it. Everyone who ended up failing my year's NAPLEX, which was arguably one of the easier ones on record, belonged to a certain frat at my school and certainly used the test banks. I'd even be realistically ok if they studied the old tests and actually remembered the material enough later, but most couldn't be bothered even for that. In other words, it's a cheating problem when the cheating doesn't even cause some learning and I'm willing to look the other way when it does.

And no, I was offered, I was too lazy to cheat. I didn't give a damn about my own grades in school and cared much more about earning some $ as an intern but did fine anyway because the material is segmented into cram and purge memorization. Also, Midwestern exams were easy enough and covered only compact material that you could cram the night before and do acceptably well (B-B+ for two hours, A-A for about four hours). If you needed to cheat to pass at this place, I'd be concerned that they were too stupid to practice.
 

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Most schools won't let you get up during exams.... this is the reason to not recommend the school? LOL!

Make sure you go to the bathroom before the exam.. Problem solved. Most 3-4 yr olds can hold it longer than 2 hrs.
 
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How often do adults get caught in a time while watching a 2-3 hour long movie where they have to go to the bathroom and miss a part of the movie? Even if they go before the movie starts, it still happens quite often. Now imagine if you go to the movie theater 2-3 days a week for 2 years straight. Multiply the frequency of that occurring with over 150 people. How many people will be forced to either fail a test/class or have an accident? All prospective students thinking about Midwestern should take that into consideration when they make their decision. There are better schools that won't treat you that way.
 
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I'm ok with it when everyone has equal access to them (I always give my old exams with full keys to all students, and since about half of my questions are free-response structured, I actually will say exactly which questions in some exams will appear on the upcoming one, because I want the material rote memorized by the students), but I'm not ok if they are not. From the teaching side, if a professor reuses old exams all the time, you'll get people memorizing the questions and assembling a test bank. Both frats at both schools that I know really well were well-known for it. Everyone who ended up failing my year's NAPLEX, which was arguably one of the easier ones on record, belonged to a certain frat at my school and certainly used the test banks. I'd even be realistically ok if they studied the old tests and actually remembered the material enough later, but most couldn't be bothered even for that. In other words, it's a cheating problem when the cheating doesn't even cause some learning and I'm willing to look the other way when it does.

And no, I was offered, I was too lazy to cheat. I didn't give a damn about my own grades in school and cared much more about earning some $ as an intern but did fine anyway because the material is segmented into cram and purge memorization. Also, Midwestern exams were easy enough and covered only compact material that you could cram the night before and do acceptably well (B-B+ for two hours, A-A for about four hours). If you needed to cheat to pass at this place, I'd be concerned that they were too stupid to practice.

These are not free response tests I'm taking about. I'm talking about multiple choice tests that use at least half and usually more than 2/3rds of the same questions from year to year. It was cheating and the student did get in trouble for it.
 
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Getting questions from past exams isn't cheating. I did it for all of undergrad and pharmacy school. It's pretty standard. If you don't get the questions obviously you don't know anyone or no one likes you.


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Here's a question for you: Do you believe that only popular students should be allowed access to studying materials?
 
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If you're seriously taking three hours on an Integrated Sequence exam, you're really asking to fail. The vast majority of my old class completed before an hour. We all knew that the ones who time was called on were functionally illiterate and that the three hours was purely just for ADA accommodation. And yes, there was and is a huge cheating problem at the school, because the profs are too lazy to change questions. If you specifically have Joie Rowles (the pharmacologist who reads at a dead monotone from her notes), I can say that she hasn't changed her test questions in 15 years from having one of the residents complain to me about questions that I remember having back then.

Should consider changing the title to "Midwestern University Treats Its Students Like Breathing ATMs", because that tuition is something else.
I agree with you about the tuition, not to mention some $700 "donation" to student services that they don't include with the official tuition charge. As for cheating, if they had a single stall available with no toilet seat cover dispenser, and they had the escort quickly check the stall before each use so no smartphone is on the ground, there would be no cheating, and people's health and human dignity wouldn't be jeopardized.
 

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When you get to studying geriatrics they will introduce you to a handy bathroom alternative for seniors called Depends. Might as well try it so later you can have solid experience with Depends and make a good recommendation.
 
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Good practice for CVS. Get used to working 12 hours straight without eating or using the bathroom!
Pharmacists need to organize a union that is as militant as the nurse's union. If a pharmacy is too busy for a pharmacist to get breaks, then it should have at least 2 pharmacists working it. That will solve the apparent job market difficulty developing.
 
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What the hell test in pharmacy school tales 3 hours? The NAPLEX doesn't take that long, does it?

That's another thing. WTF is up with all the people that took more than like 45 minutes to get a test done? I never understood that. I just went in...looked at the questions...answered them. I never really doubted myself. I got a physical pharmacy (physical chemistry) test designed to take an hour done in 18 minutes one time. One of two academic achievements I'm proud of.
At Midwestern, they lock students up in the testing center during patient encounter practice. No one is allowed to leave for 3 hours except to go to the patient encounter and come right back. They are afraid people will talk about the encounters.
 

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I had this vision of what happens at your school during an exam. Hogan would be the teacher and the student would be the guy with glasses.

 

ChalupaBatman86

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Getting questions from past exams isn't cheating. I did it for all of undergrad and pharmacy school. It's pretty standard. If you don't get the questions obviously you don't know anyone or no one likes you.


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It's called preparing for your exam.


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Here's a question for you: Do you believe that only popular students should be allowed access to studying materials?

I wasn't popular, but I always helped other people whenever I could and it came back to me 2 fold.


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KARM12

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How often do adults get caught in a time while watching a 2-3 hour long movie where they have to go to the bathroom and miss a part of the movie? Even if they go before the movie starts, it still happens quite often. Now imagine if you go to the movie theater 2-3 days a week for 2 years straight. Multiply the frequency of that occurring with over 150 people. How many people will be forced to either fail a test/class or have an accident? All prospective students thinking about Midwestern should take that into consideration when they make their decision. There are better schools that won't treat you that way.
Not that often, most adults will hold it and not potty in their pants. I rarely see adults get up during a movie unless they have kids with them. New school motto via Billy Madison "You ain't cool unless you pee your pants!"

Harrowing, indeed.
 
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I wasn't popular, but I always helped other people whenever I could and it came back to me 2 fold.


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At MWU, you only get access to those exams if you are in one of those frats especially KY. So if you are not in frat you wont get them and not many people are helpful this days like you said.
 
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Oh man! This thread is great. Lol. Did you say Geneva Convention? I'm dying of laughter over here.
As for cheating, if they had a single stall available with no toilet seat cover dispenser, and they had the escort quickly check the stall before each use so no smartphone is on the ground, there would be no cheating, and people's health and human dignity wouldn't be jeopardized.
LMAO!!!
 
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Dred Pirate

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[QUOTE="AnonymousPharmacist, post: 19051398, member: 840960"
They say this is to prevent cheating, but when a student who was a family friend of the assistant dean was caught emailing old tests to other students over the university email account, the student just received a warning, rather than be expelled. My advice to all prospective students is to pick another school. You can do much better than Midwestern, which treats its students worse than prisoners are treated under the Geneva Convention.[/QUOTE]

I will pull out the "damn millennial" entitlement card - seriously dude - pull it together - if any other profession saw this thread RPh's would be a laughing stock
 
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At MWU, you only get access to those exams if you are in one of those frats especially KY. So if you are not in frat you wont get them and not many people are helpful this days like you said.

And people would try to reconstruct the exam by writing down the questions and answers right after the exam. They would then pass on these questions and answers to the next class.

I get it...life is never fair but shouldn't universities make an effort to make sure the exam questions are not known beforehand by writing new questions and by making it an written exam? What is the point of having an exam when 1/2 the class already have answers to it?


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PharmDoReMe

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Lol my school doesn't let anyone leave the room during exams either until they've completed it. What's the big deal?
 
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Lol suck it up and get through school. You're studying to save the lives of people. Who gives a crap about those students who will probably end up in jail or killing someone. I have a ton of those people in my class, and granted to say, if you work hard you will get it. That and if you know how to play the game right, you'll be able to climb up easily.

... And please. You're talking to someone who went to a 6 year school. 8 classes a semester, 3 hour labs sometimes twice a week depending on the year, nonstop exams (at least 2 or 3 a week). Professional organization, 3 jobs, boy scouts, leadership, research, and still a social life and 6-7 hrs of sleep. If I can do this, you should be able to too. -_- Don't complain.
 
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I do not blame them for implementing "harsh" rules with preventing modern students from cheating. There is technology to scan through student essays/reports that analyze sourcing & potential copy/pasting that more colleges are having to enforce to detect plagiarism.

Cheating will catch up to the person eventually be it in professional performance, incompetence, CE audit, anxiety, guilt, etc. Agreed with what others have said, just obey the rules and quit making drama.

You want everyone to take a drug test to screen for amphetamines pre-test, every test?
 
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CetiAlphaFive

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There is technology to scan through student essays/reports that analyze sourcing & potential copy/pasting that more colleges are having to enforce to ?

One ofr the many benefits of speaking other languages:

For tedious, irrelevant writing assignments I would find sources in an alternative language and translate useful pieces into English.
 
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6GodPharm

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Is no one allowed to leave until everyone is done with the test? If this is the case I have a problem with it but if you can leave once done then this is normal practice and who most test I was done in an hour maybe hour and 15 min. 3 hours is absurd and you should be punished by holding it in lol
 

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I'm going to side with the majority here. Not allowing students to roam the hallways while taking an exam is both prudent and also the norm.
 
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I needed this laugh today. Thank you :laugh::laugh::laugh:

I went to Midwestern in Arizona. It was always the rules and I started a few years after the inaugural year started. So nothing has changed in 10 years.

And for the record, if you have a disability or doctor note, you can leave for the restroom. I developed some rare disease my first year of pharmacy school and was on massive amounts of diuretics. School knew what was happening and allowed me to use the restroom.

Personally, I've seen what MWU charges now for school and you are crazy for going.
 
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Wickett

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OP is being a bit dramatic, but I think if you need to use the bathroom, you should be able to. At my school, our integrated exams took a couple hours to complete. If you happen to caffeine load leading up to an exam like I did, you commonly have to go to the bathroom really bad part way through even if you went right before the exam.

It's pretty simple....make everyone show and put up purses, cell phones etc before the exam. Only 1 person can leave for the bathroom at a time. If you're super paranoid, ask the student to turn out their pockets and have a proctor escort the person to the bathroom and wait outside. My school did this and there were no issues. If I gotta pee, I'm gonna go pee. I'm an adult, not a toddler.
 

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I can't remember.. are restroom breaks allowed for the NAPLEX? We had a midpoint break, but I don't recall if we were allowed to leave mid-exam.
 

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I can't remember.. are restroom breaks allowed for the NAPLEX? We had a midpoint break, but I don't recall if we were allowed to leave mid-exam.

(2004 at Prometric) Restroom breaks are allowed during the two breaks, however, you were not allowed to unlock your stuff in the testing center until you fully ended. Prometric had a policy back then if there had to be an disability notice, it had to come from the tester.
 

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I love the discussion about grown adults going into healthcare professions with largely unsupervised access to controlled substances having to ask permission or be supervised to go to the bathroom.
 
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zelman

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I can't remember.. are restroom breaks allowed for the NAPLEX? We had a midpoint break, but I don't recall if we were allowed to leave mid-exam.
Yes, but your time continues going down if it's not the midpoint break.
 
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