Military Medicine Today: 4th yr here to give an update view on milmed, and answer any/all (most) Qs!

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bruitrockineverywhere

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Hello SDN Nation,

I'm currently a 4th year at USUHS and this month was recently declared military medicine month. If the exclamation point didn't give it away, I'm pretty pumped about medicine AND being in the military. I've read a lot of the horror stories, and though I'm not discounting their experiences, I can say that things change and that there are thousands of military physicians in all fields who are/were pretty happy about their decision to serve (though it is certainly not for everyone). Despite my enthusiasm, I'll do my best to give a balanced view. So, if the interest is there, I will gladly be answering any questions pertaining to USUHS, military medicine, med school apps, med school life, what makes mil med different, football, baseball, taco places, etc. If I'm not the best resource, I can definitely forward your questions to people who can better answer them (i.e stuff specific for those with families, more administrative type stuff).

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Thanks for the message. The mil-med forum seems more for those already set in mil med or already considering it. This is a more general thread to ask Qs or clarifying questions as mentioned above.
 
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Thanks for doing this!
Which branch of the military are you going into and why?
What specialty?
Are your classes and rotations any different than they would be for a civilian med student?
Are you restricted at all as to where you're allowed to do residency?
What types of ECs might make an applicant stand out to the adcom at USUHS?
 
How does specialization work in the military? Do you guys apply to a smaller "match" within the ranks?
 
This might be hard for you to answer since you are USUHS, but how are DOs perceived in the military match. I have heard that in the military match DO is actually equal to MD and wont be a factor in determining if you match to your specialty of choice. Is this true?
 
Personally, the military is not for me but thank you very much for your service.
 
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Thanks for doing this!
Which branch of the military are you going into and why?
What specialty?
Are your classes and rotations any different than they would be for a civilian med student?
Are you restricted at all as to where you're allowed to do residency?
What types of ECs might make an applicant stand out to the adcom at USUHS?

Hey Orville,

Glad to do it.

So before going into USUHS you choose a branch. I chose the Army for a couple of reasons. Each branch has there own "stereotype" or association. For example the Navy will have the best locations because they tend to be by a body of water (i.e beach front!), but you have to be willing to be on a ship because there's always a chance you'll be assigned to one. Personally, I did the army because I knew that if I were to get deployed- I wanted to be close to the brave young men and women putting their lives on the line. I knew I couldn't do what they were doing, but that I could do medicine. Other factors to consider include residency spots (there are residency spots in the Army because its the bigger branch) and General Medical Officer (GMO- its when you go become a doc for a battalion/group right after internship for 1-2 yrs before going back to do residency. The army RARELY if ever does it. I think you have to volunteer to do it as they prefer to have attendings. Airforce has minimal GMOs and Navy does 40-60%) tours. I can't lie, however, after hanging out with GMOs and talking with several Navy attendings who have done them- I seriously considered volunteering for one. I mean being a doc for an apache wing or F18 pilots (Navy flight docs/GMOs get some serious flight time: http://www.med.navy.mil/sites/nmotc/nami/academics/Pages/FlightSurgeon.aspx) is pretty sick! There are other reasons, but those are the main considerations.

Our general curriculum is 1.5 yrs classroom -> wards (1 yr) -> step1 -> advance clinicals/interviews (take step2 somewhere in between). Our medical classes are the standard civilian load+. We do an organ based system of fundamentals, MSK, CPR (cards/pulm, renal), Neuro, GI, Endo/Repro, ID and eerthang else. We get extra classes in between that include military history, disaster planning, and we have field exercises as well. We have TONS of patient interaction from our first week, and the military loves its simulators/simulations. We've gotten certified in ACLS twice and BLS twice (one more than most med schools). We are also the only medical school allowed by the ACS (American college of surgeons) to be accredited in ATLS (advance trauma life support). We do tons of U/S- from eyes to OB to F.A.S.T exams you name it. We get to do cool summer operational experiences (some people flew with fighter jets, some did mountain medicine, some stayed and did research, some did combatives, others went to DR or Honduras, etc).

Rotations are different in that we get to do them all over the country (if you chose)! We get to rotate at the military teaching hospitals which include Hawaii, San Diego, Seattle (more by Tacoma), San Antonio, DC, etc. For electives we get to rotate at smaller military hospitals (locations like Spain, Germany, Japan, Korea, Africa) AND civilian hospitals...if you can set it up you can most likely do it. Some of my classmates with families chose to do most of their rotations locally (i.e in the DC area) and for the most part were able to do that for the past 2 yrs (save for a rotation or 2). Personally, I've done 95% of my rotations around the country!

Residency. You can chose what residency you want to do, and if you're a good applicant, will most likely get your 1st choice specialty. I need to get the exact numbers from one of our staff, but I think 1st choice specialty + 1st choice location is something around a 91% match rate. Then 1st choice specialty + 2nd location is like 96/97%. Lemme get better numbers for ya! The Army only allows you to do residency training at Military teaching hospitals. The Navy and Air Force are different in that they do let students out, depending on student competitiveness and need, to civilian programs. Our applicants that go civilian for residency tend to match really well. Fellowship- the military lets folks train at civilian hospitals and in some cases even have partnerships with other universities. Civilian programs like military docs cause a)they're free to them, b) they know they'll work hard/have leadership experience, and c)they're free to them. The attendings I've worked with have trained at MGH, Hopkins, Mayo, UCSD, University of Washington, Duke, etc.

ECs. I think it's just like every other medical school. Volunteer, research, sports, etc. But I think if you hold leadership positions then you give yourself a leg up (which it should in other schools as well, but particularly in the military).

Hope this helps!!! I tried to give the general answer, but there are some nuances and so many things to say!
 
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How does specialization work in the military? Do you guys apply to a smaller "match" within the ranks?

Hey Poas,

We have our own match which occurs in December. You can do whatever residency you want. Just like in the civilian world though- if you're not a good applicant, you probably wont match into your preferred specialty/spot. Sometimes there are cases when even good applicants don't match- and that's a function of the number of spots. For example ENT has 8 spots in the army. If you have 14 strong applicants they all cant get it. So some defer a year or two OR just go into a different (surgical) specialty. There are also years when spots go unfilled. For example, in a recent year derm...yes DERMATOLOGY- them of the terrific life styles- didn't fill. Other years Rads didn't fill, and some years Optha didn't fill. It ebs and flows based on the applicants. But in general, if you're a good applicant you'll get where you want to go (just like everywhere else!). Im going to try and get the match numbers and share it here.

People tend to fixate on those not matching cause that's the one that people fear (and trust me I have the same fears), but the same is true in the civilian world and its not an issue completely unique to the military. Some residencies are more competitive than others. Ortho is competitive in the military just as it is on the outside. However, as I stated above there are some years where super competitive spots don't fill.
 
This might be hard for you to answer since you are USUHS, but how are DOs perceived in the military match. I have heard that in the military match DO is actually equal to MD and wont be a factor in determining if you match to your specialty of choice. Is this true?

Hi 4Real,

Admittedly I don't fully know as I'm not a DO student but if there was stigma then its substantially less than in the civilian setting.

Otherwise, DOs can get into whatever specialty. From GI to ortho to gen surg to you name it, there's probably a DO in that field in the military. Again strong application plus strong interview rotation (usually a month long) is key. I was talking to a military DO student friend of mine and he and his wife (who he met at DO school- she's not in the military) were having a hard time as civilian programs wouldn't even interview her. Apparently this is almost standard, but I was so surprised cause as I mentioned I've seen residents and attendings in every field who were DOs.
 
Hey Poas,

We have our own match which occurs in December. You can do whatever residency you want. Just like in the civilian world though- if you're not a good applicant, you probably wont match into your preferred specialty/spot. Sometimes there are cases when even good applicants don't match- and that's a function of the number of spots. For example ENT has 8 spots in the army. If you have 14 strong applicants they all cant get it. So some defer a year or two OR just go into a different (surgical) specialty. There are also years when spots go unfilled. For example, in a recent year derm...yes DERMATOLOGY- them of the terrific life styles- didn't fill. Other years Rads didn't fill, and some years Optha didn't fill. It ebs and flows based on the applicants. But in general, if you're a good applicant you'll get where you want to go (just like everywhere else!). Im going to try and get the match numbers and share it here.

People tend to fixate on those not matching cause that's the one that people fear (and trust me I have the same fears), but the same is true in the civilian world and its not an issue completely unique to the military. Some residencies are more competitive than others. Ortho is competitive in the military just as it is on the outside. However, as I stated above there are some years where super competitive spots don't fill.

Are the only people eligible for the military match those who come from the military medical school? What if someone applies to the civilian match and the military match? Where would they go?
 
ty for Q&A,

How does further specialization work in the military? What are the largest negatives to military medicine when compared to civilian medicine? Does the military provide language training for individuals who would like to be stationed in Germany/Japan, etc?
 
Are fellowships sometimes limited/restricted?

For example, let's say you complete a military residency in internal medicine and would like to pursue something like - allergy/immunology, or heme/onc, ID, rheum etc.

If the army does not require any allergy docs at that point, can they simply say you are not allowed to pursue this fellowship since they don't need someone to serve in that specialty for the next 5+ years?
 
you are ballin', 70k just to go to school, but then you had to show up to class every day right. what was your hourly wage? basically just divide 70000 by the number of hours you were in class each day.. let me know thanks
 
Are the only people eligible for the military match those who come from the military medical school? What if someone applies to the civilian match and the military match? Where would they go?

Those that apply to the military match are those who go to USUHS and those under the HPSP program (military scholarship but at civilian schools). There are some spots for civilians but I'm not sure how that exactly works. For example, I think anesthesia in San Antonio takes one civilian but the rest are military. I have no idea how that civilian student matches.

If someone was in the Navy/ Air force and did the Military and Civilian match and don't match to either, they would typically do a TY (transitional year). The same happens for those in the Army that don't match in the military match. After their transitional year, they can reapply to the same specialty, a different one, or chose to go operational for a bit.
 
Are fellowships sometimes limited/restricted?

For example, let's say you complete a military residency in internal medicine and would like to pursue something like - allergy/immunology, or heme/onc, ID, rheum etc.

If the army does not require any allergy docs at that point, can they simply say you are not allowed to pursue this fellowship since they don't need someone to serve in that specialty for the next 5+ years?

Great question X,

For the most part direct fellowships are more difficult to get (i.e residency and then the next year do a fellowship). Most of the time you'll be an attending for 2 or so years, maybe do an operational tour in between, and then do a fellowship. But I've worked with programs that send people straight through as well. In SD, they sent one of the Medicine chiefs to pulm/crit care. In rads they've sent two to Breast in Stanford. So straight through does happen. Again, the better you are the more likely you are to have your desired path.

There are some specialties that there aren't a lot of in the military. For example, the Military only has 12 pediatric surgeons total- 6 of which are in the Army. The patient load just isn't there to support any more. At the same time, however, not a lot of people necessarily want to go into pediatric surgery. So there's some internal checks and balances as well. Usually if you're thinking about doing a fellowship, you let your program director/mentor know and they'll set you up for success. Again, you might not be doing right after your done with residency as the military wants to see some returns on its sizable investment, but it'll happen. There are very few specialties I can think of that aren't in the military: pediatric cardiothoracic surgery (we have peds neurosurg, ent, ortho, but peds CT we don't- we just refer out) is one of them...I can't really think of others. The good thing is when you do want to do a fellowship/ are approved for one, you usually go to some sweet spots.

But the specialties you've mentioned are docs I've worked with (allergy/immunology, heme/onc, ID, rheum, etc)
 
you are ballin', 70k just to go to school, but then you had to show up to class every day right. what was your hourly wage? basically just divide 70000 by the number of hours you were in class each day.. let me know thanks

Hey Frog,

It is a pretty nice deal. Like most med schools our lectures are recorded so there are days when we don't even have to come in (depends on your learning style of course)! To that, we also have a bunch of required things (path lab, histo, anatomy) that are required. But yeah its a blast getting to do fun things with classmates while in school. Some people take leave in Europe, Asia; people go on cruises; etc. Third year's pretty sweet to with paid travel to training sites. Fourth year you have to mostly fund yourself though. But yes, saving, investing, etc is nice to be able to do while in med school.

I will say though, that if it were me- I personally wouldn't do the military just for the money. You have to know that you'll be doing military things (i.e field exercises, physical fitness tests, uniform inspections, etc) and know that you will probably deploy at some point in your career: however short that may be (i.e HPSP people owe 4 years after residency for residencies that are shorter than 6 years- I believe; USUHS owes 7)
 
ty for Q&A,

How does further specialization work in the military? What are the largest negatives to military medicine when compared to civilian medicine? Does the military provide language training for individuals who would like to be stationed in Germany/Japan, etc?

Hi Lucca,

Thanks for the question. If by further specialization you mean fellowships- it's essentially the same as in the civilian world, save for maybe a 2 or so year delay. Please my reply to X two posts above this reply. If you have further questions on this, absolutely let me know. I will say, I have met/worked with more double certified/ multiple fellowship docs than I have seen/heard anywhere else. The reason is probably cause we're salaried so people can afford to do multiple trainings if they're willing to stay in longer. For example I've worked with docs who did psych for a couple of years and then became a general surgeon, another doc was a medicine doc then did rads, another was medicine then went optha, another as EM then did neurosurg! One of our instructors at USUHS had like 3 or 4 fellowships! It's tough to do this, especially the multiple residencies cause apart from going down from one's attending status one would also take a significant pay cut. The later isn't a problem in the military.

Language training. I don't know if the docs get language training- I haven't had much experience with this to be honest. I know when I was doing my summer experience abroad the docs/nurses/staff were taking group classes together. I would say it depends on how long your going to be stationed there. Let me get back to you on this one.

Negatives. This is tough for me as I considered a lot of this before I joined, and in the end viewed them as a positive. As I alluded to in an earlier post one has to know that you will get deployed. You will do military things. Will it be difficult being away from family and friends for 6-9 months? Yup. I can only imagine how much more difficult it is if I have a kid by then (you don't get deployed/re-stationed until you finish residency, at least not in the Army- see previous post). But I also think about why I would be deploying- to be right there for those in the front lines. To help out in humanitarian aid. When the world needs help who do they call? The U.S. And the U.S's main way of establishing quick care is through the military. Tsunami in Japan. Tsunami in Haiti. Containing Ebola in Africa. We're there. Another negative could be that you can also get stationed to a location that you might really hate for a year or two. There's no sugar coating that one or making it better. Sometimes you get the short end of the stick. The question becomes, well what do you do about it? How do you make the most out of it? This exact scenario probably doesn't apply to the civilian world, but I find it hard to believe that people don't get stuck in crappy situations elsewhere. For example I've heard of docs hating the middle of nowhere (like Alaska) and they were miserable. Then at another site, another doc I worked with was assigned to Alaska for like 2 years and they loved it. Talked about all the sites he was able to see, how we took up boating, fishing, etc. Then there are military things. You have to fill out tons of paper work, and do online trainings for seemingly pointless things. Again, this to me is a small price to pay to train to become a military physician. At the end of the day we are all officers and physicians...and that is pretty awesome. If you come in understanding these things, not pushing them aside or belittling them, but accepting them as part of the job description I think it becomes easier.
 
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