MSU-COM for those who are considering....

[DO to be 1]

For those who are considering MSUCOM as your potential DO school, please think again.

I am so disappointed with the quality of the education here at MSUCOM. Yes.. the administrative staff is extremely nice and helpful and so is the dean's office. BUt when it comes to the faculty, by far this has been the worst faculty i have been taught by.
The course packs are a mess... essentially they took the MSUCHM course pack, replaced CHM with COM (literally, they did ctrl+f to replace it, since some of the words in the sentences with CHM were replaced with COM as well).... and gave this "course pack" to faculty that did not have any clue as to what was in the course pack to teach us.
Needless to say most of us had to use youtube and other resources to teach ourselves...... and still teaching ourselves
The anatomy faculty was even worst, expect for two profs (i will refrain from mentioning any names). We had a prof that was calling gut tube "little yellow thing" and "cheerleaders" :S and teaching us as if we were in kindergarten... now for some ppl this necessarily might not be too bad but give me a break we are not going to be learning actual medical terminology if our profs are teaching us like kids.

Our OPC clinics, in which we are supposed to learn clinical skills, are a joke. We are taught our clinical skills by second year students :S ...who themselves are not even fully accustomed to using all the medical equipment. And when we asked our "physician teacher" to show us how to use a tuning fork, he asked us for our clinical book so he could read and see if he remembers how to use it.....and after 10 mins of looking through it he did not know how to use it.

If we thought first semester was bad, second semester is hopeless. Basically our faculty includes profs that should not be allowed to teach high school sciences much less medical school. I understand if someone has a language barrier but reading statements off of the course packs that we already have , without any explanations is no help to us... and when asked for an explanation... well yes they do not know and try to bs their way through it.

SO there was my little rant... nevertheless it is true. This is the quality of education that i am so dearly paying for. Was not expecting this from my medical school education. And now i completely understand as to why MSUCOM has one of the lowest board scores.
And it seems like any suggestions or feedback are going straight in to the trash can as after talking to most of the upper years, it seems like this has been a continuous problem.

So, for those who are considering MSUCOM, please reconsider it.... this is my 2 cents.

---

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[Drrrrrr. Celty]

80k a year is still far more a deterrent to me than this story

 

[NurWollen]

MSUCOM: Crappiest school of the week.

First LECOM, then AZCOM, then it was KCOM, then it was PCOM.... seriously, you could find one of these threads about ANY school.



Fwiw, AZCOM rocks.

 

[darklabel]

80k a year is still far more a deterrent to me than this story

Yup, dat tuition statement alone will keep me far away from the school, though at the rate tuition keeps increasing, I'm sure other schools will catch up.

 

[Jumpstartmy5HT]

I would be interested to hear from other current MSUCOM students on this topic.

 

[Samuel3]

i would be interested to hear from other current msucom students on this topic.

+1

 

[bark]

May I ask which campus you are studying at DO to be1?

 

[Anicetus]

May I ask which campus you are studying at DO to be1?

There are different MSU-COM campuses??

 

[HotHamH2O]

More importantly it's in Michigan...

 

[as1212559]

So you mean to tell me that your med school professors expect you to take their material and expand upon what they present to you outside of class?!

The nerve of those people.

 

[coolingglasses]

Ooh, exciting. We got a few threads like these last year.

So you mean to tell me that your med school professors expect you to take their material and expand upon what they present to you outside of class?!

The nerve of those people.

:werd: I get very little out of lectures, even those I find entertaining/interesting. They just move too quick for me. I do my best work going through the handouts in sections and processing for understanding in my head.

 

[NurWollen]

I never thought I'd see someone complain that their DO school's curriculum was page for page identical to an MD school's curriculum.

 

[NeuroLAX]

I never thought I'd see someone complain that their DO school's curriculum was page for page identical to an MD school's curriculum.

I don't think that is what they were complaining about.

 

[edgerock24]

Hard to take this post seriously. Looks like the writing of a middle school student.

 

[pattr]

post count = 1.... hmmm...

 

[SurgeDO]

For those who are considering MSUCOM as your potential DO school, please think again.

I am so disappointed with the quality of the education here at MSUCOM. Yes.. the administrative staff is extremely nice and helpful and so is the dean's office. BUt when it comes to the faculty, by far this has been the worst faculty i have been taught by.
The course packs are a mess... essentially they took the MSUCHM course pack, replaced CHM with COM (literally, they did ctrl+f to replace it, since some of the words in the sentences with CHM were replaced with COM as well).... and gave this "course pack" to faculty that did not have any clue as to what was in the course pack to teach us.
Needless to say most of us had to use youtube and other resources to teach ourselves...... and still teaching ourselves
The anatomy faculty was even worst, expect for two profs (i will refrain from mentioning any names). We had a prof that was calling gut tube "little yellow thing" and "cheerleaders" :S and teaching us as if we were in kindergarten... now for some ppl this necessarily might not be too bad but give me a break we are not going to be learning actual medical terminology if our profs are teaching us like kids.

Our OPC clinics, in which we are supposed to learn clinical skills, are a joke. We are taught our clinical skills by second year students :S ...who themselves are not even fully accustomed to using all the medical equipment. And when we asked our "physician teacher" to show us how to use a tuning fork, he asked us for our clinical book so he could read and see if he remembers how to use it.....and after 10 mins of looking through it he did not know how to use it.

If we thought first semester was bad, second semester is hopeless. Basically our faculty includes profs that should not be allowed to teach high school sciences much less medical school. I understand if someone has a language barrier but reading statements off of the course packs that we already have , without any explanations is no help to us... and when asked for an explanation... well yes they do not know and try to bs their way through it.

SO there was my little rant... nevertheless it is true. This is the quality of education that i am so dearly paying for. Was not expecting this from my medical school education. And now i completely understand as to why MSUCOM has one of the lowest board scores.
And it seems like any suggestions or feedback are going straight in to the trash can as after talking to most of the upper years, it seems like this has been a continuous problem.

So, for those who are considering MSUCOM, please reconsider it.... this is my 2 cents.

wow...never have i read such a childish rant on SDN. it sounds like you were expecting a spoon-fed education...sorry MSUCOM came up short.

the anatomist you are referring to is a nationally renown anatomist who has co-authored multiple anatomy text books. i am very offended at how much you degraded this person in your whiney little fit. the above mentioned anatomist has gone above and beyond in helping me--as well as my fellow deserving classmates--understand anatomy to the point where i have personally gone out of my way to praise her to MSUCOM administration as well as MSU administration.

i could go on and on with how satisfied i am with my anatomical education at MSUCOM. pro-section>>>>>>>dissection any day of the week. the faculty are very informative to those who desire to learn.

the course packs are fine.

grow up, kid. med school is hard.

 

[SurgeDO]

ugh. this post has really rattled my jimmies.

The course packs are a mess... essentially they took the MSUCHM course pack, replaced CHM with COM (literally, they did ctrl+f to replace it, since some of the words in the sentences with CHM were replaced with COM as well).... and gave this "course pack" to faculty that did not have any clue as to what was in the course pack to teach us.

the professors who are teaching us (some of who also teach at MSUCHM) wrote the course packs...they were not handed anything. your point is irrelevant.

Needless to say most of us had to use youtube and other resources to teach ourselves...... and still teaching ourselves

welcome to med school.

Our OPC clinics, in which we are supposed to learn clinical skills, are a joke. We are taught our clinical skills by second year students :S ...who themselves are not even fully accustomed to using all the medical equipment. And when we asked our "physician teacher" to show us how to use a tuning fork, he asked us for our clinical book so he could read and see if he remembers how to use it.....and after 10 mins of looking through it he did not know how to use it.

many, many medical schools do not even BEGIN teaching clinical skills until 2nd year. MSUCOM started this class 3 years ago. my physician teachers taught me how to use a tuning fork just fine...and the 2nd years are very knowledgable and were taught well.

If we thought first semester was bad, second semester is hopeless. Basically our faculty includes profs that should not be allowed to teach high school sciences much less medical school. I understand if someone has a language barrier but reading statements off of the course packs that we already have , without any explanations is no help to us... and when asked for an explanation... well yes they do not know and try to bs their way through it.

i don't know what would cause you to even write this? from my experience, the faculty go above and beyond to help us and answer our questions. after lecturing us all day, they go home to their computers and continuously answer questions we ask of them via our course web sites. never have i had a question go unanswered by at least one of the multiple faculty members who teach our courses.

And it seems like any suggestions or feedback are going straight in to the trash can as after talking to most of the upper years, it seems like this has been a continuous problem.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? you have got to be a troll.

for one, you are the second class experiencing the revised curriculum. the revised curriculum last year was DRASTICALLY different than the one you are currently experiencing...due to the feedback from the now 2nd years.

in addition to this, we are REQUIRED to evaluate EVERY lecturer for EVERY course after EVERY test. i can tell you for a fact that administration takes our feedback very seriously.

in addition to this, we are given multiple opportunities to meet with the administration in person to give feedback on the curriculum.


if you cannot tell, i absolutely adore MSUCOM--as do the majority of my classmates--and cannot be more satisfied with my education. the faculty and administration truly go above and beyond to make us feel comfortable and part of the MSUCOM family.

/rant

 

[Wipeout416]

You tell em surge. Thanks for the counter,

 

[Escape_Goat]

Applying to MSUCOM because of this thread.

 

[coolingglasses]

bearing in mind that I go to a different DO school...

welcome to med school.

exactly. my classmates and I use outside resources all the time and I don't think any of us have taken this attitude. professors tell us what we need to know and make themselves available if we need more clarification (in addition to the fellows). otherwise, youtube is a perfectly good resource as long as you compare it back to your handout.

many, many medical schools do not even BEGIN teaching clinical skills until 2nd year. MSUCOM started this class 3 years ago. my physician teachers taught me how to use a tuning fork just fine...and the 2nd years are very knowledgable and were taught well.

can't speak to anyone else's clinical integration. but I will say our 2nd years have been a wealth of information as well.

i don't know what would cause you to even write this? from my experience, the faculty go above and beyond to help us and answer our questions. after lecturing us all day, they go home to their computers and continuously answer questions we ask of them via our course web sites. never have i had a question go unanswered by at least one of the multiple faculty members who teach our courses.

I think it's hilarious they got so offended by the professor using "childish" terms. I won't mention any of the hilarious comparative descriptors I've heard here, but they can definitely help you learn. The lecturer is trying to help you digest the concepts. You can link it to the proper medical terminology on your handout/lecture slides in seconds.

ibbutyouweren'ttherebro

I dunno what incenses people to make threads like these. They try to play like PSAs but save for a couple, they often read like plain old whining. It's not a great way to position yourself in the realm of your medical education, "us vs. them"... even if there are problems, work with what you're given for now and collaborate with your peers to provide feedback if you feel like you aren't being heard.

 

[DO to be 1]

ok i am going to post a quick reply to this.

this is not only my personal experience but seems to be how most of my classmates are feeling.

And as far as Dr. FItz goes, the only faculty i found helpful for anatomy, i was referring to his coursepack and lab manual being super disorganized

and yes med school is all about doing extra work and what not, but that extra work becomes a lot harder when the faculty is so bad at teaching that you have to spend twice as much time going over concepts that should not have been as hard to explain in the first place.

and what exactly did they revise in the curriculum i may ask? put 2 courses on a test instead of 4? without addressing the underlying problem of bad faculty...?
yeap sounds like they are really taking student feedback in to account

all i am saying is, make an informed decision to whoever is applying here. Talk to the first years when you go visit campuses..... and definitely tour campuses, especially EL.

 

[StudyShy]

Applying to MSUCOM because of this thread.

 

[SurgeDO]

And as far as Dr. FItz goes, the only faculty i found helpful for anatomy, i was referring to his coursepack and lab manual being super disorganized

i wish i could upload the course pack to this site without having to worry about copyright infringement just to show everyone how delusional you are. the only thing that i could possibly think of as "disorganized" were minor sections of the upper limb unit. this unit was re-written for us and taught by a new clinical professor because--get this--the now 2nd years were not satisfied with their previous UL professor.

Dr. Fitz is the man...as well are the other anatomists/clinicians whose reputations you have attempted to mar. specifically, the way Dr. Fitz organized the lower limb unit goes unparalleled. i cannot think of a more efficient way to learn the material than the way Dr. Fitz presented it in his course pack.

as for the lab manual, for the life of me, i cannot figure out what the hell you are talking about in terms of it being disorganized. it is literally a check list of anatomical structures we need to be able to identify. go to lab; run through the check list; prosper on the practical: simple for students with even the slightest bit of motivation.

and yes med school is all about doing extra work and what not, but that extra work becomes a lot harder when the faculty is so bad at teaching that you have to spend twice as much time going over concepts that should not have been as hard to explain in the first place.

i would LOVE to know where you did your undergrad at. did your professors hold your hand and tell you how much of a special little snowflake you are?

this. is. medical school. it's not the professors responsibility to make sure that you fully understand the material--that's your job. the professors are there to present the material that you need to master by means of your own. as i've stated before, the professors have gone above and beyond to answer my many, many, many questions.

and what exactly did they revise in the curriculum i may ask? put 2 courses on a test instead of 4? without addressing the underlying problem of bad faculty...?
yeap sounds like they are really taking student feedback in to account

further integrated multiple courses to better prepare us for boards, hired new specialized faculty that teach sections they are specialized in (i.e. we have multiple biochemistry professors), shortened test taking intervals, reorganized the timeline in which our current classes are presented, etc.

all i am saying is, make an informed decision to whoever is applying here. Talk to the first years when you go visit campuses..... and definitely tour campuses, especially EL.

after reading your posts, my only complaint i have with MSUCOM is the lack of higher admission standards. we need to bring back the interview process to prevent entitled children like you from entering the school.

you can tell MSUCOM takes a lot of pride in their production and education of strong clinicians. it is truly an inspirational environment, and i could not be more grateful for every second i spend there learning from phenomenal professors and clinicians. i am offended by the way you have talked about the people who i feel have so deeply influenced my medical education.

 

[bionerd89]

i wish i could upload the course pack to this site without having to worry about copyright infringement just to show everyone how delusional you are. the only thing that i could possibly think of as "disorganized" were minor sections of the upper limb unit. this unit was re-written for us and taught by a new clinical professor because--get this--the now 2nd years were not satisfied with their previous UL professor.

Dr. Fitz is the man...as well are the other anatomists/clinicians whose reputations you have attempted to mar. specifically, the way Dr. Fitz organized the lower limb unit goes unparalleled. i cannot think of a more efficient way to learn the material than the way Dr. Fitz presented it in his course pack.

as for the lab manual, for the life of me, i cannot figure out what the hell you are talking about in terms of it being disorganized. it is literally a check list of anatomical structures we need to be able to identify. go to lab; run through the check list; prosper on the practical: simple for students with even the slightest bit of motivation.



i would LOVE to know where you did your undergrad at. did your professors hold your hand and tell you how much of a special little snowflake you are?

this. is. medical school. it's not the professors responsibility to make sure that you fully understand the material--that's your job. the professors are there to present the material that you need to master by means of your own. as i've stated before, the professors have gone above and beyond to answer my many, many, many questions.



further integrated multiple courses to better prepare us for boards, hired new specialized faculty that teach sections they are specialized in (i.e. we have multiple biochemistry professors), shortened test taking intervals, reorganized the timeline in which our current classes are presented, etc.



after reading your posts, my only complaint i have with MSUCOM is the lack of higher admission standards. we need to bring back the interview process to prevent entitled children like you from entering the school.

you can tell MSUCOM takes a lot of pride in their production and education of strong clinicians. it is truly an inspirational environment, and i could not be more grateful for every second i spend there learning from phenomenal professors and clinicians. i am offended by the way you have talked about the people who i feel have so deeply influenced my medical education.

great post..I really wish I could come here..but OOS tuition is too crazy..

 

[StudyShy]

great post..I really wish I could come here..but OOS tuition is too crazy..

Word on the street is that it is doable with scholarships and somehow tuition goes down to basically what ISers pay. Apply if you're interested.

 

[Elevencents]

Word on the street is that it is doable with scholarships and somehow tuition goes down to basically what ISers pay. Apply if you're interested.

Shhhhh (OOS here )

 

[bionerd89]

Word on the street is that it is doable with scholarships and somehow tuition goes down to basically what ISers pay. Apply if you're interested.

I did apply and I've seen some of the scholarships on their website but I didn't think it was going to be easy for all OOS students to get it.

 

[Driftinglily11]

.

 

[DE15C]

To the original poster of this thread,
Please do not take this as an attack but rather a critical analysis.
I would strongly advise you to be much more careful with your comments. While you may have some legitimate concerns with your program I do not believe you are addressing them appropriately.
I am sure you were just venting your frustrations, but remember that this is a PUBLIC forum and the statements you make are available for the world to see. I think it is very bad form to provide the name of a faculty member as you did. It reflects poorly on you and does not show maturity or professionalism.
I won't dwell on the merits of your complaints other than 2 points I would like to address.
First, you open by stating how helpful the administration at your school is yet you do not mention ever addressing your concerns with them.
Second, I take issue with your comment about board scores. I have not reviewed the numbers for your school but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. That being said, why would you choose to attend a school which you know has low scores and then be surprised by any academic shortcomings. Again this results in a poor reflection on your decision making.
If you are feeling this way during your first year, you will have a long road ahead of you. I strongly suggest that you attempt to find a way to work within the constraints of your program without ruining your attitude. You will only make yourself miserable and run the risk of jeopardizing your future career.
The medical community is a system of colleagues who are expected to conduct themselves professionally. Ranting online in the manner you chose only shines a negative spotlight on you and detracts from the merits of any arguments you are trying to make. I assure you that this is not the image you want to project of yourself as you prepare to enter this field. That is not to say you are wrong to offer critiques, but I would be much more careful with my wording.
Good luck with your concerns, I hope you can find a way to successfully navigate your way to a rewarding career.

 

[Driftinglily11]

.

 

[Bomikepa]

80k plus living for OOS
how hard is to establish MI residency?

 

[orleans]

Maybe you ought to learn how to study in med school, otherwise you'll be in a world of hurt on boards. Another thing: People dislike whiners on rotations...

 

[bark]

To the original poster of this thread,
Please do not take this as an attack but rather a critical analysis.
I would strongly advise you to be much more careful with your comments. While you may have some legitimate concerns with your program I do not believe you are addressing them appropriately.
I am sure you were just venting your frustrations, but remember that this is a PUBLIC forum and the statements you make are available for the world to see. I think it is very bad form to provide the name of a faculty member as you did. It reflects poorly on you and does not show maturity or professionalism.
I won't dwell on the merits of your complaints other than 2 points I would like to address.
First, you open by stating how helpful the administration at your school is yet you do not mention ever addressing your concerns with them.
Second, I take issue with your comment about board scores. I have not reviewed the numbers for your school but I will give you the benefit of the doubt. That being said, why would you choose to attend a school which you know has low scores and then be surprised by any academic shortcomings. Again this results in a poor reflection on your decision making.
If you are feeling this way during your first year, you will have a long road ahead of you. I strongly suggest that you attempt to find a way to work within the constraints of your program without ruining your attitude. You will only make yourself miserable and run the risk of jeopardizing your future career.
The medical community is a system of colleagues who are expected to conduct themselves professionally. Ranting online in the manner you chose only shines a negative spotlight on you and detracts from the merits of any arguments you are trying to make. I assure you that this is not the image you want to project of yourself as you prepare to enter this field. That is not to say you are wrong to offer critiques, but I would be much more careful with my wording.
Good luck with your concerns, I hope you can find a way to successfully navigate your way to a rewarding career.

I worry about the profession when I see tons of posts around here deficient in the professionalism and maturity you wonderfully write about.

I'm still curious which campus DO to be 1 attends?

 

[Back 5]

I'm inclined to give the OP the benefit of the doubt. They sound like they are a 1st year student who most likely graduated college and went directly into med school. That puts them in the 21-23 age bracket? There is a LOT of maturation that happens from 23-30, ask me how I know

I bitched a lot when I was a first year in professional school, ironing out the curriculum of a new school. Fortunately for me, there weren't websites like this, that allowed my frustrations to be publicly displayed.

To the OP: Keep your head down and "take it to the man" by getting A's and rock your boards. Don't make the mistake of poor grades and blame it on the school. You'll look back on this experience and laugh later on.

 

[Roxas]

I'm inclined to give the OP the benefit of the doubt. They sound like they are a 1st year student who most likely graduated college and went directly into med school. That puts them in the 21-23 age bracket? There is a LOT of maturation that happens from 23-30, ask me how I know

I bitched a lot when I was a first year in professional school, ironing out the curriculum of a new school. Fortunately for me, there weren't websites like this, that allowed my frustrations to be publicly displayed.

To the OP: Keep your head down and "take it to the man" by getting A's and rock your boards. Don't make the mistake of poor grades and blame it on the school. You'll look back on this experience and laugh later on.

This is some of the best advice I've read on SDN

 

[Shinobiz11]

ITT:
Med school is hard. Duh.

 

[user3]

I would be interested to hear from other current MSUCOM students on this topic.

+1

Although granted, MSUCOM always seemed like the universally exalted DO school...

It just doesn't get as much attention on here as schools like DMU or CCOM, since if you aren't from Michigan, good luck getting in or paying that OOS tuition if you do.

 

[558363]

I live in Michigan, and I would be very happy if I got accepted to MSUCOM.

 

[NurWollen]

I would be willing to bet that MSUCOM blows a lot of DO schools out of the water when it comes to rotations, what with all the osteopathic teaching hospitals on the area.

 

[as1212559]

ITT:
Med school is hard. Duh.

Strongcliffs/10

 

[Dreamstoo]

I would be willing to bet that MSUCOM blows a lot of DO schools out of the water when it comes to rotations, what with all the osteopathic teaching hospitals on the area.

+1 My friend who goes to MSU said the MSUCOM has better rotations and is an arguably a better school than the MSU MD program.

 

[Shinobiz11]

+1 My friend who goes to MSU said the MSUCOM has better rotations and is an arguably a better school than the MSU MD program.

Top 10 in primary care

 

[Dreamstoo]

Top 10 in primary care

Yep a doctor I shadowed said its a phenomenal program for ppl interested in primary care