Multiple acceptances - Do vet schools find out and offer merit to protect yield?

[DVMDream]

Yea I know. I was mainly asking for a best case scenario. As in, if you make toward the higher end, is it feasible to pay off your debt much faster.

I mean if I could make $125k while living in Wyoming, I'd probably have a bit more free income to play with, but no one is making $125k while living in Wyoming....

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[battie]

Yea I know. I was mainly asking for a best case scenario. As in, if you make toward the higher end, is it feasible to pay off your debt much faster.

Not going to lie, but it should be the other way around. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

 

[ajs513]

I mean if I could make $125k while living in Wyoming, I'd probably have a bit more free income to play with, but no one is making $125k while living in Wyoming....

I also wouldn’t want to live in Wyoming... no offense Wyoming! I’m used to living off of $60,000 gross in Philadelphia though, so it wouldn’t be an adjustment for me to continue living that way but with a significantly higher income.

 

[ajs513]

Not going to lie, but it should be the other way around. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

You’re totally right. My goal here was to just understand all situations since you mostly hear about the bad and the ugly.

 

[DVMDream]

I also wouldn’t want to live in Wyoming... no offense Wyoming! I’m used to living off of $60,000 gross in Philadelphia though, so it wouldn’t be an adjustment for me to continue living that way but with a significantly higher income.

I still think you have a bit of rose-colored glasses view of how things will truly be once you graduate and have to pay back the debt. I hope I am wrong and that things run smooth for you, but I am afraid from personal experience and hearing of other's in the field that you may be a titch optimistic here.

 

[Quigly]

Yea I know. I was mainly asking for a best case scenario. As in, if you make toward the higher end, is it feasible to pay off your debt much faster.

If you can graduate with under 200K in debt and are able to live a little cheaper than average, you stand a decent chance. If you are over 300K, I think just the mental fatigue of that number is enough to keep many from seriously trying to attack it, which is understandable because they don't stand much of a chance.

 

[WildZoo]

I mean, it is feasible, if that's what you want to hear. If the stars align and you work your ass off, and you go at it very aggressively. The stars aligning is a big part there. I don't think anyone is saying it's impossible.

 

[ANSohschm]

And I HATE when people state the bolded. Yes, I get it. If you get a refund that means you gave the government an interest free loan for the year.... blah, blah, blah, blah, blah..... yeah, when you are struggling paycheck to paycheck like the vast majority of the world and like I am.... the last thing you want to see is that you OWE taxes. I know ideally you want that number to be $0... neither owe or get a refund but damn if I have to pick owe vs refund since it is near impossible to get it to exactly $0.... I'd pick refund every time. I can't afford to OWE the government MORE than I am already paying in.

Don’t get too hung up. The bottom line is that the mass hysteria over not getting your tax refund does not alone provide enough info to establish how the tax changes affected your overall tax burden, because the withholding tables changed too. You are correct that for people living paycheck to paycheck that struggle to save money, it is nice to get that fat refund- I have been that person in the past. It is also true that you would have been better off getting it throughout the year in less withheld taxes, just from a raw math standpoint. A lot of it comes down to the math vs psychology of finances. It seems like you already know this. Didn’t mean to step on any toes there.

I am still genuinely curious how you only managed to bring home $70k out $125k, as you alluded to above.

 

[ajs513]

I still think you have a bit of rose-colored glasses view of how things will truly be once you graduate and have to pay back the debt. I hope I am wrong and that things run smooth for you, but I am afraid from personal experience and hearing of other's in the field that you may be a titch optimistic here.

You’re definitely right. I’m 22 years old, have never had a true financial struggle in my life, and things have kind of just worked out for me so far. I got a pretty rude awakening in undergrad a few times but still nothing like being saddled with a lot of debt. I can’t claim at all that im not optimistic. But hopefully things go well.

 

[DVMDream]

I mean, it is feasible, if that's what you want to hear. If the stars align and you work your ass off, and you go at it very aggressively. The stars aligning is a big part there. I don't think anyone is saying it's impossible.

And that you never want to start a family, buy a home, buy a car, etc.

I mean considering most people come out of vet school at 26-30 and that is prime "settling down" time for a majority of people.... you are being smacked by the reality of your large debt at the same time that other big $$$ spending things become something you very much want.

 

[WildZoo]

And that you never want to start a family, buy a home, buy a car, etc.

I mean considering most people come out of vet school at 26-30 and that is prime "settling down" time for a majority of people.... you are being smacked by the reality of your large debt at the same time that other big $$$ spending things become something you very much want.

This is why I'm hoping my ovaries never wake up and realize their one true purpose in life is not just to cause me pain...

 

[DVMDream]

Don’t get too hung up. The bottom line is that the mass hysteria over not getting your tax refund does not alone provide enough info to establish how the tax changes affected your overall tax burden, because the withholding tables changed too. You are correct that for people living paycheck to paycheck that struggle to save money, it is nice to get that fat refund- I have been that person in the past. It is also true that you would have been better off getting it throughout the year in less withheld taxes, just from a raw math standpoint. A lot of it comes down to the math vs psychology of finances. It seems like you already know this. Didn’t mean to step on any toes there.

I am still genuinely curious how you only managed to bring home $70k out $125k, as you alluded to above.

I didn't say I made $125k I said I made "shy of $120k" by the end of 2018.

I understand tax brackets change. I also understand that Trump changed to placed a higher tax burden on the middle class.... I am not stupid. I know how to see the difference. My income didn't change from 2017 to 2018. Neither did my income tax allowance. So I had the same amount removed in 2017 with the same salary in 2017 as I did in 2018. Yet, I somehow need to pay the government $2800 more between the two years..... yeah, no this isn't just a bracket changing deal. This is MUCH MORE than that.

 

[Caiter92]

My only thought about paying off faster vs paying off with IBR is that if you pay it off sooner your don’t have that debt burden moving forward. You don’t have to factor in your loan payments when thinking about if you can afford other payments. It’s a bad way to be, but I like to have peace of mind with one less thing on my plate. Even if I can just get my monthly payments to a more manageable level, that would be nice.

I know I’m getting way ahead of myself because I don’t even HAVE debt yet, but I don’t wan to be hit in the face with it later.

But if your principle is 400k.. your payments would be something like 4K+ on the 10 year plan. Let’s say you take home 70k after taxes, and your SO does the same. You’re going to be paying 50k of your 140k income just in loans every year. Now add on a house payment, two car payments, car insurance, etc. you’re not going to have much left of the remaining 90k to live on, even in a lower COL area.

Yeah it majorly ****s with you to have that debt over your head (I have around 100 including interest and I’m not even paying it back yet and it makes me nervous), but you have to have room to live.

I probably won’t end up doing IBR, cause saving that much for me depends on having dependents for 18/25 years of repayment and being married the whole time, and that won’t likely be the case. But it’s just not realistic to be able to live and still pay off 400k in loans without using a forgiveness plan.

 

[ajs513]

But if your principle is 400k.. your payments would be something like 4K+ on the 10 year plan. Let’s say you take home 70k after taxes, and your SO does the same. You’re going to be paying 50k of your 140k income just in loans every year. Now add on a house payment, two car payments, car insurance, etc. you’re not going to have much left of the remaining 90k to live on, even in a lower COL area.

Yeah it majorly ****s with you to have that debt over your head (I have around 100 including interest and I’m not even paying it back yet and it makes me nervous), but you have to have room to live.

I probably won’t end up doing IBR, cause saving that much for me depends on having dependents for 18/25 years of repayment and being married the whole time, and that won’t likely be the case. But it’s just not realistic to be able to live and still pay off 400k in loans without using a forgiveness plan.

I think the biggest thing for me over the next couple years is finding a solid budgeting plan and loan repayment plan. Luckily my dad is a financial advisor so I have that going for me to help figure all of that out. My end goal is for my SO and me to live like we’re making a little below the median household income and figure it out from there

 

[Minnerbelle]

Hello! Just wondering in case I missed this- did you go to Penn? And if so, as a GP it only took you like 4 years to pay back the debt? (if that's the case, GP here I come!) Also making $120+ a year as a GP sounds great like where do you work lol

Nope, couldn't stomach the thought of living in Philly. But I didn't have a cheap IS option so they all cost about the same. My parents footed half of my tuition so I graduated with about the average for my year at ~$150k. Lived on hubby's salary and paid $3-4K per month on my student loans and had hubby throw in a bunch of cash instead of giving me an engagement ring and forgoing a proper wedding. I worked my ass off to do that, but I fully admit that I am quite lucky (born and married into relative affluence), and didnt mean to imply this was feasible for everyone. There's no way you could pay off >$250k in that short with a $120k salary. There's def a point at which it's actually stupid to try and pay it off with the option of IBR/PAYE and forgiveness.

I work in New England, and actually earn less than my other friends who also work in NE. Based on location, salaries vary widely. I'm in a mid-cost of living town relatively speaking for my area. I certainly can't afford to live in some of the insanely high cost of living cities near me. But even then, the median family income for my town is $150k, which is pretty high. I'm pretty well off for a veterinarian in my position, but even then, I'm still living a rather modest lifestyle.

 

[ANSohschm]

I didn't say I made $125k I said I made "shy of $120k" by the end of 2018.

I understand tax brackets change. I also understand that Trump changed to placed a higher tax burden on the middle class.... I am not stupid. I know how to see the difference. My income didn't change from 2017 to 2018. Neither did my income tax allowance. So I had the same amount removed in 2017 with the same salary in 2017 as I did in 2018. Yet, I somehow need to pay the government $2800 more between the two years..... yeah, no this isn't just a bracket changing deal. This is MUCH MORE than that.

I am not insinuating that you are stupid.

Are you saying you didn’t change your allowances in your W4 to account for the adjusted withholding tables?

 

[DVMDream]

I am not insinuating that you are stupid.

Are you saying you didn’t change your allowances in your W4 to account for the adjusted withholding tables?

The withholding tables haven't changed much from 2017 to 2018, actually the withholding should be LESS for 2018 compared to 2017. Hence my repeatedly telling you this is MORE than changing tax brackets. This year I'm supposed to have LESS withheld compared to last year, I had the same withheld and I apparently have to still give the government $2800 more than I did last year.

Quit trying to jump onto some bull**** here and just trust when two veterinarians in this thread explain that taxes are done ****ed up this year because of the new tax bill, that they really are done ****ed up. I know hundreds of vets in the same position ..... this is about MORE than tax brackets.

So quit trying to prove something. Or question what I'm saying.

 

[ANSohschm]

The withholding tables haven't changed much from 2017 to 2018, actually the withholding should be LESS for 2018 compared to 2017. Hence my repeatedly telling you this is MORE than changing tax brackets. This year I'm supposed to have LESS withheld compared to last year, I had the same withheld and I apparently have to still give the government $2800 more than I did last year.

Quit trying to jump onto some bull**** here and just trust when two veterinarians in this thread explain that taxes are done ****ed up this year because of the new tax bill, that they really are done ****ed up. I know hundreds of vets in the same position ..... this is about MORE than tax brackets.

So quit trying to prove something. Or question what I'm saying.

Wow, you better write to the editors of NYT, motley fool, and npr (among others) so they can fix their news articles.

Why a Tax Cut Might Not Mean a Bigger Refund



https://www.google.com/amp/s/financ...ler-refund-apos-not-government-000500934.html

 

[Caiter92]

Wow, you better write to the editors of NYT, motley fool, and npr (among others) so they can fix their news articles.

Why a Tax Cut Might Not Mean a Bigger Refund



https://www.google.com/amp/s/financ...ler-refund-apos-not-government-000500934.html

Dude, just drop it. So many people are getting screwed this year.

 

[DVMDream]

Wow, you better write to the editors of NYT, motley fool, and npr (among others) so they can fix their news articles.

Why a Tax Cut Might Not Mean a Bigger Refund



https://www.google.com/amp/s/financ...ler-refund-apos-not-government-000500934.html

FFS are you just refusing to read what I said?

YOU are the one saying "why didn't you change your deductions?" "DID you look at your tax bracket?"

I'M the one pointing out this has NOTHING TO DO WITH TAX BRACKETS.

 

[DVMDream]

An npr statement? There's the top line of information there.....not.

 

[ANSohschm]

FFS are you just refusing to read what I said?

YOU are the one saying "why didn't you change your deductions?" "DID you look at your tax bracket?"

I'M the one pointing out this has NOTHING TO DO WITH TAX BRACKETS. Thanks for linking articles to prove MY point and disprove your standpoint. Much appreciated

You: the withholding tables haven’t changed much from 2017 to 2018.
False. They did change, the exact amount is too complicated to display here, but every linked article mentions it.

You: actually the withholding tables should be less for 2018 compared to 2017.
yes, less withheld by the government = more in your paycheck every month = less of a tax refund. This is very clearly detailed in linked articles.

You: this is more than changing tax brackets.
True. There were major changes to deductions, especially if you live in a state with a high state income tax. There were also major positive changes to the standard deduction. I have already stated this in this thread.

I never asked why you didn’t change your deductions - I asked about your withholding allowances. They are not the same.

I also have been neither crass nor rude. If the goal of this forum is to help aspiring veterinarians, I’d love to see more financial oriented discussions. I don’t spend enough time on this site to know if this is commonplace manners to get all superior and “THEY ARE A VETERINARIAN, THEY DO NO WRONG.” Let’s have some mutual respect here.

 

[DVMDream]

You: the withholding tables haven’t changed much from 2017 to 2018.
False. They did change, the exact amount is too complicated to display here, but every linked article mentions it.

You: actually the withholding tables should be less for 2018 compared to 2017.
yes, less withheld by the government = more in your paycheck every month = less of a tax refund. This is very clearly detailed in linked articles.

You: this is more than changing tax brackets.
True. There were major changes to deductions, especially if you live in a state with a high state income tax. There were also major positive changes to the standard deduction. I have already stated this in this thread.

I never asked why you didn’t change your deductions - I asked about your withholding allowances. They are not the same.

I also have been neither crass nor rude. If the goal of this forum is to help aspiring veterinarians, I’d love to see more financial oriented discussions. I don’t spend enough time on this site to know if this is commonplace manners to get all superior and “THEY ARE A VETERINARIAN, THEY DO NO WRONG.” Let’s have some mutual respect here.

This isn't the place for this. Go to spf if you want political/tax discussions.

I'm not going to go over this with you.

There's no reason that you've listed to explain someone going from a $2-3k refund in 2017 to owing $8800 in 2018 while also having no major changes to income, deductions, withholdings, etc.....yet there's at least 25 people I know of that this is happening to and many more concerned about it but haven't finished filing to have their exact numbers.

Quit spoon eating news articles and open your eyes to what the real examples are. Most of the people I know are using CPAs to file taxes and have for years. The common theme is every one of them saying how the new tax law has destroyed hundreds to thousands of people (the CPAs are saying this).

This isn't a "well you were making $50-100 extra each paycheck this year compared to last".... no, this is much MORE complex and this forum isn't the proper place to discuss this.

I mean you have one of the examples right here in this thread..... where the poster went from getting "thousands in refund" to "we owe $8k this year".... you can't explain that away via anything. It is obscene and not the only one I've heard it from. But just stick your head in the sand and post New York times articles instead, clearly journalists know more than CPAs and a journalist never spins a story to support a narrative they want an audience to hear.

If you want a tax discussion....go to spf. I specifically stated "not to get too political" in my first post intentionally so it wouldn't spin off into this. So stop spinning it off and go to the appropriate forum for this discussion.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I ran the numbers and I’ll end up with around $250,000 before interest. That’s if I don’t apply for and get any scholarships. It’s definitely not a low amount of debt, but it could be worse. Especially since I’m making this decision for many other reasons than just money.

You realize that means you'll have about $45000 in interest added on to that at the time of repayment when your interest will capitalize right?

So 6 months from graduation you'll be at $290k+ principal and your MONTHLY interest will be at like $1600. That's $1600 post tax income that just goes poof! and doesn't even go towards your principal. So you can try putting most of your paycheck to it, but even if you are paying $3400 a month (post-tax income, which is a lot of money to pretend you don't have) it would take you 10 years of not missing any payments. Life is hard, needing to pay that much monthly no fail for 10 years is not comfortable (maybe not doable) for someone who doesn't earn multi 6 figure salaries. And you would pay a total of >$400k in those 10 years. That's 10 years during the prime of your life. That's miserable. And this is coming from someone who lived in Boston on 30k prior to vet school and continued to live that way for an additional 4.5 years to pay off debt. It was a short enough time that I bit the bullet and did it, but any longer than that would have been unsustainable. Im experienced enough now that I can command a high salary without working that much, but I'm going to be taking a huge pay cut now to have time to raise kids. But in order to start making $120k at 6 mos out of school, I worked more hours than your average academic intern.

On the other hand, you could do PAYE and only pay like $830 a month assuming your goals of earning $120k straight out of school is met. Even with the tax at the end of 20 years, you would be paying the same amount you would have total with your 10 year life sucking plan. You would pay less than that if your income is less. It seems like a no brainer... unless you have family/hubby that can contribute a significant amount into your student loans in tens of thousands of dollars chunks.

 

[ajs513]

You realize that means you'll have about $45000 in interest added on to that at the time of repayment when your interest will capitalize right?

So 6 months from graduation you'll be at $290k+ principal and your MONTHLY interest will be at like $1600. That's $1600 post tax income that just goes poof! and doesn't even go towards your principal. So you can try putting most of your paycheck to it, but even if you are paying $3400 a month (post-tax income, which is a lot of money to pretend you don't have) it would take you 10 years of not missing any payments. Life is hard, needing to pay that much monthly no fail for 10 years is not comfortable (maybe not doable) for someone who doesn't earn multi 6 figure salaries. And you would pay a total of >$400k in those 10 years. That's 10 years during the prime of your life. That's miserable. And this is coming from someone who lived in Boston on 30k prior to vet school and continued to live that way for an additional 4.5 years to pay off debt. It was a short enough time that I bit the bullet and did it, but any longer than that would have been unsustainable. Im experienced enough now that I can command a high salary without working that much, but I'm going to be taking a huge pay cut now to have time to raise kids. But in order to start making $120k at 6 mos out of school, I worked more hours than your average academic intern.

On the other hand, you could do PAYE and only pay like $830 a month assuming your goals of earning $120k straight out of school is met. Even with the tax at the end of 20 years, you would be paying the same amount you would have total with your 10 year life sucking plan. You would pay less than that if your income is less. It seems like a no brainer... unless you have family/hubby that can contribute a significant amount into your student loans in tens of thousands of dollars chunks.

What was you debt load out of school if you don’t mind my asking? I’m just trying to get as many people’s experiences as possible so I know what to expect. Is it worth doing a life sucking plan for 4 years or so to then lower the amount that I’m paying for the remaining 6 years? I know with IBR I’m paying less per month and less overall but that’s over 20-25 years. I’m okay with not really starting my life until I’m 31. At least as of now. That might change an probably will, but I’m just trying to explore all options.

 

[ANSohschm]

This isn't the place for this. Go to spf if you want political/tax discussions.

I'm not going to go over this with you.

There's no reason that you've listed to explain someone going from a $2-3k refund in 2017 to owing $8800 in 2018 while also having no major changes to income, deductions, withholdings, etc.....yet there's at least 25 people I know of that this is happening to and many more concerned about it but haven't finished filing to have their exact numbers.

Quit spoon eating news articles and open your eyes to what the real examples are. Most of the people I know are using CPAs to file taxes and have for years. The common theme is every one of them saying how the new tax law has destroyed hundreds to thousands of people (the CPAs are saying this).

This isn't a "well you were making $50-100 extra each paycheck this year compared to last".... no, this is much MORE complex and this forum isn't the proper place to discuss this.

I mean you have one of the examples right here in this thread..... where the poster went from getting "thousands in refund" to "we owe $8k this year".... you can't explain that away via anything. It is obscene and not the only one I've heard it from. But just stick your head in the sand and post New York times articles instead, clearly journalists know more than CPAs and a journalist never spins a story to support a narrative they want an audience to hear.

If you want a tax discussion....go to spf. I specifically stated "not to get too political" in my first post intentionally so it wouldn't spin off into this. So stop spinning it off and go to the appropriate forum for this discussion.

Oh this is so, so, so good. I'd like to note that this has been completely apolitical on my end and you were the one who brought up the importance of how taxes impact one when their income starts to creep above the 6 figure mark (which is important, so good on you). Also note, I despise taxes and would prefer almost all of your hard earned money stay with you.

That being said, you are spewing absolutely tax-illiterate nonsense in a thread. You said the current administration got rid of the deduction of student loan interest (they didn't). You said the withholding tables have not changed (they have). You have misused the terms deductions and allowances specifically when referring to tax withholding. When presented with news articles from obviously legitimate, non-controversial sources that coddle irate tax filers (like yourself) with some pretty basic examples, you start on some nonsense about how those articles are fake news and how the 25 people you know are paying more. Guess what, I also know CPAs and people that file taxes in various tax brackets. We all do. The CPAs I know have had to take training to help cool down people like yourself that are all pissy their refunds got smaller. Go to any financial forum, call a financial planner, or HR Block or any other tax preparing service. A majority of people have seen little overall change in how much they owe throughout the course of the year. Not everyone, but most. As a profession of science and data, I'm not sure how you can argue against that with anecdotes. The only apt comparison for how your tax burden changed is to look at your overall tax rate and the dollar amount of your overall tax burden. It would be impossible for me to try and explain how someone's REFUND changed without a lot of their detailed information - such is the nature of our complicated tax code.

You started this whole charade and instead of dealing with any of the incorrect things you said, want to push it away as off topic. The original discussion of how taxes impact the idea of "I'll make $100k, and pay off my $200k debt in 4 years by living on $50k for 4 years" is SUPER important to the type of people looking at this forum. I think we would both at least agree that it is NOT how it works in the real world.

 

[DVMoftheFuture]

Oh this is so, so, so good. I'd like to note that this has been completely apolitical on my end and you were the one who brought up the importance of how taxes impact one when their income starts to creep above the 6 figure mark (which is important, so good on you). Also note, I despise taxes and would prefer almost all of your hard earned money stay with you.

That being said, you are spewing absolutely tax-illiterate nonsense in a thread. You said the current administration got rid of the deduction of student loan interest (they didn't). You said the withholding tables have not changed (they have). You have misused the terms deductions and allowances specifically when referring to tax withholding. When presented with news articles from obviously legitimate, non-controversial sources that coddle irate tax filers (like yourself) with some pretty basic examples, you start on some nonsense about how those articles are fake news and how the 25 people you know are paying more. Guess what, I also know CPAs and people that file taxes in various tax brackets. We all do. The CPAs I know have had to take training to help cool down people like yourself that are all pissy their refunds got smaller. Go to any financial forum, call a financial planner, or HR Block or any other tax preparing service. A majority of people have seen little overall change in how much they owe throughout the course of the year. Not everyone, but most. As a profession of science and data, I'm not sure how you can argue against that with anecdotes. The only apt comparison for how your tax burden changed is to look at your overall marginal tax rate and the dollar amount of your overall tax burden. It would be impossible for me to try and explain how someone's REFUND changed without a lot of their detailed information - such is the nature of our complicated tax code.

You started this whole charade and instead of dealing with any of the incorrect things you said, want to push it away as off topic. The original discussion of how taxes impact the idea of "I'll make $100k, and pay off my $200k debt in 4 years by living on $50k for 4 years" is SUPER important to the type of people looking at this forum. I think we would both at least agree that it is NOT how it works in the real world.

Can we please not derail this thread with a debate about specific tax laws? The reality is that there is no guarantee that the specific taxes or tax brackets will be the same upon graduation of current vet students, and they may even change as folks are paying off their loans.
When we are talking about hypothetically paying off a loan with some hypothetical income, being super specific is not necessary. To current pre-vets and vet students, what I've been told is to assume that you will lose 15% of your income to federal taxes. It may end up being more or less depending on various factors (and don't forget that there may also be state and local taxes, as well as FICA), but it's probably a decent number to start with if you're just trying to get a sense of what you'll have left to live on and pay loans.

To give an example, assuming I make $90,000 and live in PA, here's what my taxes would look like:

The takeaway: regardless of who is President, you will lose a large chunk of your income to taxes, and it's probably way more than you'd expect.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

As in, if you make toward the higher end, is it feasible to pay off your debt much faster.

Maybe, maybe not.......it depends on what your other expenses are. I would think that would be pretty obvious

There is no "one-size fits all" kind of response to your question.......If you've got a second income in your family, or lower living expenses, or you're growing your own vegetables and meat, etc, then, yes, it is feasible to pay off your debt much faster. And if you're the primary (or only) breadwinner in your household, or if you live in an area with a high cost of living, or if you've got high medical expenses, etc, then, no, it's not feasible to pay off your debt much faster.

 

[ajs513]

Maybe, maybe not.......it depends on what your other expenses are. I would think that would be pretty obvious

There is no "one-size fits all" kind of response to your question.......If you've got a second income in your family, or lower living expenses, or you're growing your own vegetables and meat, etc, then, yes, it is feasible to pay off your debt much faster. And if you're the primary (or only) breadwinner in your household, or if you live in an area with a high cost of living, or if you've got high medical expenses, etc, then, no, it's not feasible to pay off your debt much faster.

Thanks for the response. I’m just trying to gauge the mindset of vets and figure out what the general consensus is. It seems like most people think IBR is the best option, especially on a single income. I really appreciate the info.

 

[4.0nointerviewaurgh]

thank you all. From your answers, it makes me wonder if very expensive vet schools like Cornell and UPenn are filled with students who weren’t accepted elsewhere (which seems unlikely), will borrow excessively for the “name,” or wealthy enough to not care about the costs.

Go look at the accepted board. Cornell is in the middle of the pack of vet schools when it comes to cost. While Tuffs and UPenn are among the highest costs. There are a lot of 3.0 GPA and low vet hour students accepted into Tuffs and UPenn that were rejected from every other school. You have to remember that the ranking of vet schools is done based on their PhD and Masters research programs not their DVM program. Most UPenn and Tuffs PhD and Master students are on full scholarship and dual DVM/PhD and dual DVM/MS students are getting a large amount of the DVM tuition covered too. So these schools do have some of the brightest minds in their vet school.

​

 

[DVMDream]

Oh this is so, so, so good. I'd like to note that this has been completely apolitical on my end and you were the one who brought up the importance of how taxes impact one when their income starts to creep above the 6 figure mark (which is important, so good on you). Also note, I despise taxes and would prefer almost all of your hard earned money stay with you.

That being said, you are spewing absolutely tax-illiterate nonsense in a thread. You said the current administration got rid of the deduction of student loan interest (they didn't). You said the withholding tables have not changed (they have). You have misused the terms deductions and allowances specifically when referring to tax withholding. When presented with news articles from obviously legitimate, non-controversial sources that coddle irate tax filers (like yourself) with some pretty basic examples, you start on some nonsense about how those articles are fake news and how the 25 people you know are paying more. Guess what, I also know CPAs and people that file taxes in various tax brackets. We all do. The CPAs I know have had to take training to help cool down people like yourself that are all pissy their refunds got smaller. Go to any financial forum, call a financial planner, or HR Block or any other tax preparing service. A majority of people have seen little overall change in how much they owe throughout the course of the year. Not everyone, but most. As a profession of science and data, I'm not sure how you can argue against that with anecdotes. The only apt comparison for how your tax burden changed is to look at your overall tax rate and the dollar amount of your overall tax burden. It would be impossible for me to try and explain how someone's REFUND changed without a lot of their detailed information - such is the nature of our complicated tax code.

You started this whole charade and instead of dealing with any of the incorrect things you said, want to push it away as off topic. The original discussion of how taxes impact the idea of "I'll make $100k, and pay off my $200k debt in 4 years by living on $50k for 4 years" is SUPER important to the type of people looking at this forum. I think we would both at least agree that it is NOT how it works in the real world.

Just drop it, FFS.

You are now actually putting words in my mouth of things I didn't say. I never once said the tax brackets didn't change. .... go look for yourself.

I said they didn't change MUCH. I also said they decreased from 2017 to 2018... They did


I'm not spewing non sense your jumping on me because I'm warning people that you can't see $100k salary and expect to live as if you're making a $60k salary because people forget about taxes. You, admit, yourself, that you don't disagree on that. ...... so why the actual **** did you need to say anything?

Yes, I accidentally typed deduction instead of withholding once while discussing. I also have been sick. It isn't a big deal for someone to make a single typo.....get over it.

There WAS (and you can Google it I'm at the Dr) a law introduced to do away with student loan interest deduction...... it didn't go through. However, that's not even the point.... it doesn't matter if that deduction exists or not because the vast majority of vets do NOT qualify to get it..... we make too much money.


I'm going to believe 25+ CPAs over you that the new tax law is screwing people over. They ARE the experts.

I'm not personally angry about anything, I didn't get screwed over this year.

I am angry to see many veterinarians discussing how they are having giant tax changes despite no change in their income or personal lives between 2017 to 2018.

You're a vet student not a tax person. Are you even filing taxes this year? Do you know how much this is affecting small businesses like vet clinics?

You're looking at such a small snippet that you can't possibly grasp the enormity of what's occurring.

CPAs aren't "placating angry tax payers" this year as you're claiming instead They are pissed.....that's the difference you're missing.

Again, I don't even get why you're trying to argue this when my original point in bringing it up was to explain how you can't look at a salary and expect oh I'll just live like I'm making $20-30k less and put that into loans, it doesn't work because of taxes ,which you don't even disagree on......so why the heck did you have to say anything at all?

 

[4.0nointerviewaurgh]

I’m just gonna say it. Penn, Cornell and Davis REALLY like to play up rankings and brag about the vets they produce. But all schools produce great vets. All schools provide an environment where students can specialize. I really doubt the percentage of students specializing from Penn is much different than other schools. Would honestly not be surprised if it’s lower than some other schools with the amount of debt students come out with.

The school may market themselves as a school that produces specialists, but it’s not exclusive to them.

Vet schools have many programs. DVM is just one of them. Ranking of vet schools are totally based on the impact of the research the school has done and the number of Masters and PhD degrees they offer. There is no ranking the quality of the DVM program. The only thing you can look at is the accreditation of the DVM program. If you view the accreditation report, UPenn is on probation right now. https://www.avma.org/ProfessionalDe...ents/2018-September-Accreditation-Actions.pdf

 

[Caiter92]

Vet schools have many programs. DVM is just one of them. Ranking of vet schools are totally based on the impact of the research the school has done and the number of Masters and PhD degrees they offer. There is no ranking the quality of the DVM program. The only thing you can look at is the accreditation of the DVM program. If you view the accreditation report, UPenn is on probation right now. https://www.avma.org/ProfessionalDe...ents/2018-September-Accreditation-Actions.pdf

I think you missed my point that the schools I listed just like to play up ranking like they matter. When they don’t. The ranking of your school (and yes I realize it has to with research, ect.) is meaningless if it’s an AVMA accredited school. You’ll get a good education at any of them.

Edit: also, probation isn’t a big deal typically. They’re not at risk of losing their accreditation. Most schools have something they need to fix after AVMA visits.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Go look at the accepted board. Cornell is in the middle of the pack of vet schools when it comes to cost. While Tuffs and UPenn are among the highest costs. There are a lot of 3.0 GPA and low vet hour students accepted into Tuffs and UPenn that were rejected from every other school. You have to remember that the ranking of vet schools is done based on their PhD and Masters research programs not their DVM program. Most UPenn and Tuffs PhD and Master students are on full scholarship and dual DVM/PhD and dual DVM/MS students are getting a large amount of the DVM tuition covered too. So these schools do have some of the brightest minds in their vet school.

​

Have you sat on an admission committee for both institutions and therefore have precise knowledge the proportion of accepted students with sub-3.0 GPAs and low vet hour students who were also rejected from every other school?

Or are you basing this statement of purported fact on perusal of a thread in an anonymous online forum?

 

[4.0nointerviewaurgh]

I think you missed my point that the schools I listed just like to play up ranking like they matter. When they don’t. The ranking of your school (and yes I realize it has to with research, ect.) is meaningless if it’s an AVMA accredited school. You’ll get a good education at any of them.

Edit: also, probation isn’t a big deal typically. They’re not at risk of losing their accreditation. Most schools have something they need to fix after AVMA visits.

I was supporting your point. Being accredited is all that matters. But I do think you can look at the probation reports and see if a school is always having problems. Yes, it's very unlikely that they will loss their accreditation. But if cost of two schools are close, a little at a couple years of reports may tell you what school is on the ball of keeping things up.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

also, probation isn’t a big deal typically. They’re not at risk of losing their accreditation. Most schools have something they need to fix after AVMA visits.

Most schools don't have enough, or bad enough, problems to get put on probation........probation means that they have "one or more MAJOR deficiencies that have more than minimal impact on student learning or safety" (emphasis mine). That's a reasonably big deal, in my opinion - not because they might lose their accreditation, but because they've allowed themselves to develop significant problems that affect their students and didn't correct those problems until they were threatened.

 

[Caiter92]

Most schools don't have enough, or bad enough, problems to get put on probation........probation means that they have "one or more MAJOR deficiencies that have more than minimal impact on student learning or safety" (emphasis mine). That's a reasonably big deal, in my opinion - not because they might lose their accreditation, but because they've allowed themselves to develop significant problems that affect their students and didn't correct those problems until they were threatened.

If you look at the accreditation report, Penn is on probation for a minor deficiency. My school technically was too last year for a reason they were still overhauling when they had their site visit, and the board had known it was be an issue, but they didn’t want to rush fixing it. Yeah if a school has major deficiencies that’s a big deal, but a minor one isn’t uncommon to happen and is usually rectified quickly.

 

[ajs513]

If you look at the accreditation report, Penn is on probation for a minor deficiency. My school technically was too last year for a reason they were still overhauling when they had their site visit, and the board had known it was be an issue, but they didn’t want to rush fixing it. Yeah if a school has major deficiencies that’s a big deal, but a minor one isn’t uncommon to happen and is usually rectified quickly.

Penn did have major deficiencies. The deficiencies were downgraded to minor. The emergency services department was overhauled and there are some other things that are in progress to fix everything.

 

[4.0nointerviewaurgh]

Have you sat on an admission committee for both institutions and therefore have precise knowledge the proportion of accepted students with sub-3.0 GPAs and low vet hour students who were also rejected from every other school?

Or are you basing this statement of purported fact on perusal of a thread in an anonymous online forum?

It's clear what I said. "Go look at the accepted board". I pointed out a correlation, there are people going to Upenn and Tufts because it's their only option dispute the cost according to an anonymous online forum. I never said it was a fact.

Are you saying that one should never use an anonymous online forum to draw a correlation? Do you know that data collected from anonymous online forums is the starting point for more in-depth research on topics?

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

It's clear what I said. "Go look at the accepted board". I pointed out a correlation, there are people going to Upenn and Tufts because it's their only option dispute the cost according to an anonymous online forum. I never said it was a fact.

Are you saying that one should never use an anonymous online forum to draw a correlation? Do you know that data collected from anonymous online forums is the starting point for more in-depth research on topics?

I'm saying that you shouldn't use a single thread on an online forum to indirectly draw conclusions about a school's applicant pool or student body.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

If you look at the accreditation report, Penn is on probation for a minor deficiency. My school technically was too last year for a reason they were still overhauling when they had their site visit, and the board had known it was be an issue, but they didn’t want to rush fixing it. Yeah if a school has major deficiencies that’s a big deal, but a minor one isn’t uncommon to happen and is usually rectified quickly.

Agreed.

Also, some of these deficiences are purely structural - i.e. outdated facilities. Fixing this type of deficiency takes a lot of time and money, so sometimes they can't be rectified that quickly. Or, sometimes schools undergo curriculum changes, and this leads to a deficiencies in assessments and such. Ironing out such things does take time.

I would only consider it an issue if there are multiple major deficiencies that go unaddressed year after year after year.

 

[grebes4lyfe]

It's clear what I said. "Go look at the accepted board". I pointed out a correlation, there are people going to Upenn and Tufts because it's their only option dispute the cost according to an anonymous online forum. I never said it was a fact.

Are you saying that one should never use an anonymous online forum to draw a correlation? Do you know that data collected from anonymous online forums is the starting point for more in-depth research on topics?

Penn was not my only option, nor is it commonly people's only option.
Just because they are willing to look at an applicant holistically does not mean that it is not a competitive school to get accepted to.
I may not have a 4.0, but there are other aspects of my application that make up for that, and Penn was willing to see those. I have published research, I respond to oil spills, I work with a veterinarian and an organization on the forefront of publishing care protocols for aquatic birds, since nobody truly knows how to treat these animals, I killed the GRE, I write a kick-ass essay, and I had some great LORs. Yes, I had multiple rejections from schools who didn't look at my application twice due to my 3.3 GPA, but I also had multiple acceptances and I did choose Penn over other schools. I'm waitlisted at Cornell, and I would still choose Penn over Cornell if I get off the waitlist. I think that what you said above about Penn/Tufts accepting low stats and low hours students who couldn't get in anywhere else is incorrect, and implying that these schools take sub-par students because who else would pay that much is uncalled for. These schools also have plenty of 4.0, killer GRE, and 3000+ vet hour students. Those numbers are important, but they are not everything.
I'm sorry that you have a 4.0 and no interviews or whatever your name implies, but don't be salty that others are doing well this cycle and **** on their schools.

 

[Minnerbelle]

What was you debt load out of school if you don’t mind my asking? I’m just trying to get as many people’s experiences as possible so I know what to expect. Is it worth doing a life sucking plan for 4 years or so to then lower the amount that I’m paying for the remaining 6 years? I know with IBR I’m paying less per month and less overall but that’s over 20-25 years. I’m okay with not really starting my life until I’m 31. At least as of now. That might change an probably will, but I’m just trying to explore all options.

I posted my situation above. I only had $150k in debt when I graduated, which is the only reason why I Dave Ramsey'd it and paid it off. And that was hard. If I had almost double the initial amount, and thus double the interest, it would have been unwise to spend a penny more than I needed to on PAYE. It's either you decide to pay it off, or you don't and save for the forgiveness tax and not worry about it. Doing anything in between is going to make you much poorer in the long run. It's literally money down the drain.

 

[prevetkid]

It's clear what I said. "Go look at the accepted board". I pointed out a correlation, there are people going to Upenn and Tufts because it's their only option dispute the cost according to an anonymous online forum. I never said it was a fact.

Are you saying that one should never use an anonymous online forum to draw a correlation? Do you know that data collected from anonymous online forums is the starting point for more in-depth research on topics?

Just as a side note, I think GPA is important of course but there are things to consider like rigor of an academic undergraduate institution. It is nearly impossible to have a 4.0 as a STEM major at some schools. I even spoke to a couple 4.0 students at the vet schools I visited and they said they were straight A students in undergrad because they went to a place that didn't challenge them academically and they barely had to study and thus had to get with the studying program REAL quick at vet school if they didn't want to fall behind. Meanwhile, students going to places that really expect a lot from them, challenge them and require dedicated amounts of studying might not produce students with the highest GPA's but they might do better at adjusting to vet school because they already went somewhere challenging for undergrad.
It is quite frustrating to see people talking badly about certain schools that produce qualified veterinarians simply because they accept students with lower GPA's. Also, GPA is not the end all be all. If you look phenomenal on paper but have no communication skills, are not adept at handling animals, cannot think critically on your feet in emergency situations or lack some other facet that makes a great veterinarian I don't think your undergrad GPA matters that much overall.

 

[prevetkid]

Penn was not my only option, nor is it commonly people's only option.
Just because they are willing to look at an applicant holistically does not mean that it is not a competitive school to get accepted to.
I may not have a 4.0, but there are other aspects of my application that make up for that, and Penn was willing to see those. I have published research, I respond to oil spills, I work with a veterinarian and an organization on the forefront of publishing care protocols for aquatic birds, since nobody truly knows how to treat these animals, I killed the GRE, I write a kick-ass essay, and I had some great LORs. Yes, I had multiple rejections from schools who didn't look at my application twice due to my 3.3 GPA, but I also had multiple acceptances and I did choose Penn over other schools. I'm waitlisted at Cornell, and I would still choose Penn over Cornell if I get off the waitlist. I think that what you said above about Penn/Tufts accepting low stats and low hours students who couldn't get in anywhere else is incorrect, and implying that these schools take sub-par students because who else would pay that much is uncalled for. These schools also have plenty of 4.0, killer GRE, and 3000+ vet hour students. Those numbers are important, but they are not everything.
I'm sorry that you have a 4.0 and no interviews or whatever your name implies, but don't be salty that others are doing well this cycle and **** on their schools.

my hero

 

[4.0nointerviewaurgh]

Penn was not my only option, nor is it commonly people's only option.
Just because they are willing to look at an applicant holistically does not mean that it is not a competitive school to get accepted to.
I may not have a 4.0, but there are other aspects of my application that make up for that, and Penn was willing to see those. I have published research, I respond to oil spills, I work with a veterinarian and an organization on the forefront of publishing care protocols for aquatic birds, since nobody truly knows how to treat these animals, I killed the GRE, I write a kick-ass essay, and I had some great LORs. Yes, I had multiple rejections from schools who didn't look at my application twice due to my 3.3 GPA, but I also had multiple acceptances and I did choose Penn over other schools. I'm waitlisted at Cornell, and I would still choose Penn over Cornell if I get off the waitlist. I think that what you said above about Penn/Tufts accepting low stats and low hours students who couldn't get in anywhere else is incorrect, and implying that these schools take sub-par students because who else would pay that much is uncalled for. These schools also have plenty of 4.0, killer GRE, and 3000+ vet hour students. Those numbers are important, but they are not everything.
I'm sorry that you have a 4.0 and no interviews or whatever your name implies, but don't be salty that others are doing well this cycle and **** on their schools.

I don't see where I was being salty. I didn't even apply to UPenn, Tufts, or Cornell. I got into multiple low cost vet schools this cycle. I pointed out that on the accepted forum people posted stats low GPA and low vet hour said they applied to multiple school and only got into UPenn or Tufts. I don't lie! I read the posts, so are you saying those people lied? I was very surprised to see this information. It's a lot higher then other vet schools. So, using this information posted, there appears to be a correlation between cost and applicates stats. Never did a say that UPenn or Tufts only took sub-par students. In fact if you re-read my post you'll see where I said UPenn and Tufts have some of the best minds. Why is it so upsetting to you that I pointed out a correlation? Why did you feel the need to personal attack me?

 

[ajs513]

I don't see where I was being salty. I didn't even apply to UPenn, Tufts, or Cornell. I got into multiple low cost vet schools this cycle. I pointed out that on the accepted forum people posted stats low GPA and low vet hour said they applied to multiple school and only got into UPenn or Tufts. I don't lie! I read the posts, so are you saying those people lied? I was very surprised to see this information. It's a lot higher then other vet schools. So, using this information posted, there appears to be a correlation between cost and applicates stats. Never did a say that UPenn or Tufts only took sub-par students. In fact if you re-read my post you'll see where I said UPenn and Tufts have some of the best minds. Why is it so upsetting to you that I pointed out a correlation? Why did you feel the need to personal attack me?

Well, you did say that they have the best minds IN THE PhD PROGRAM and then went on to say how maybe their veterinary program accepts sub-par applicants. Sooooo

 

[4.0nointerviewaurgh]

I'm saying that you shouldn't use a single thread on an online forum to indirectly draw conclusions about a school's applicant pool or student body.

I didn't draw conclusions about the entire applicant pool or student body and I clearly stated it in the post, by saying the schools had some of the best minds.

 

[4.0nointerviewaurgh]

Well, you did say that they have the best minds IN THE PhD PROGRAM and then went on to say how maybe their veterinary program accepts sub-par applicants. Sooooo

Please point to where I said sub-par.

 

[ajs513]

Please point to where I said sub-par.

“I pointed out a correlation, there are people going to Upenn and Tufts because it's their only option”

That’s a roundabout way of saying “sub-par.”