My past grades are haunting me! End of my medical career ?

[seren1051]

Let's just answer OP's question and move on. Yeah OP, it will haunt you. Come back when you get in. We'll be all so happy for you.

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[el_duderino]

How much will this affect me?

Remarkable how similar the responses are in this thread and mine. Also interesting how different the OP's responses are.

My advice to the OP, from someone who collected two semesters of straight F's in undergrad and had a 2.8 cGPA (>3.8 without those Fs): it's possible, but not easy. Goro's advice is good. I do have to say I'm not encouraged that your GPA is fairly low at your current institution, so I think a post-bacc or SMP is in your future.

Apply broadly, apply DO, but not until your application is otherwise stellar.

 

[el_duderino]

Let's just answer OP's question and move on. Yeah OP, it will haunt you. Come back when you get in. We'll be all so happy for you.

You don't know as much as you think you do.

 

[deleted898680]

Arrogance is assuming you have something to teach an individual who is a member of a medical school admissions board and has been patiently doling out friendly, constructive free advice here for the better part of a decade.

Am I suppose to believe whatever is said over the Internet ? Lol i have yet to see any constructive advise besides taking few of my words as a focal point.

 

[el_duderino]

Am I suppose to believe whatever is said over the Internet ? Lol i have yet to see any constructive advise besides taking few of my words as a focal point.

I don't think your attitude is conducive to what you need to do to succeed.

 

[trev5150]

Am I suppose to believe whatever is said over the Internet ? Lol i have yet to see any constructive advise besides taking few of my words as a focal point.

LOL why did you come here then? To talk to anonymous people on the internet. Take two courses in logic and rhetoric and call my office in the morning.

 

[trev5150]

Thank you for the sparring session. I'm now in the perfect frame of mind to study for my viro exam on Tuesday.

 

[Insert Member Name Here]

If the only reason you're here is because med school i tough to get into, I hope beyond hope that you're not the one in the E.R. when I have my next kidney stone.

I would feel terrible about you going through a kidney stone, but you'd be delusional if you said I was unfair for saying the X-ray indicates your flank pain is due to one.

 

[deleted898680]

I don't think your attitude is conducive to what you need to do to succeed.

LOL why did you come here then? To talk to anonymous people on the internet. Take two courses in logic and rhetoric and call my office in the morning.

LOL why did you come here then? To talk to anonymous people on the internet. Take two courses in logic and rhetoric and call my office in the morning.

Is it like a professional linkedIn website ? Lol

 

[deleted898680]

I don't think your attitude is conducive to what you need to do to succeed.

No attitude here. Just honest replies.

 

[deleted898680]

These types of attitudes are the ones that try to "teach" attendings during residencies, always conflict with co residents and finally get kicked out of residency.

You can say that about someone without knowing them personally ? Lol amazing! Happy posting!

 

[el_duderino]

No attitude here. Just honest replies.

Take a step back. Your attitude is hostile and combative because people aren't telling you what you want to hear. I understand what you're feeling; look at the thread I linked to earlier, where people told me it was a pipe dream and I had no chance.

Now listen to what I'm telling you. It's the same thing everyone else is telling you. Your attitude is bad and you are responding inappropriately. Your behavior is within your power to change.

You have a chance here, albeit a small one. Your path requires humility and realistic thinking. You need to listen to all the advice you can, even if it's hidden in negative thoughts and opinions. So listen to us.

 

[Insert Member Name Here]

@jonnythan @PashaOdesit Is the opening poster still framing the beginning of each sentence with a lower case letter despite using proper end punctuation? Using "coz" in every single instance? Lashing out at everyone in a volatile manner for no reason? Knows how to use reference tags for their second thread on this site?

 

[gyngyn]

Let's remember to keep it professional, everyone (and don't forget the "ignore" function, when indicated!).

 

[PossibleDOC?]

Figured I may as well just jump into the rabbit hole here.....OP the past bad grades will haunt your app no matter what you do, as you take more credits, increasing the GPA gets harder. Realistically what you need to do is get your sGPA to a 3.0 or above (preferably above), then apply for a SMP preferably one affiliated with a med school for guaranteed admission. Once all that is done take the MCAT. With all of that done and if you do STELLAR then you should get in. This is about 3-5 years worth of work I would think.

As for the other posts you think are bashing you.....you have to remember on SDN everyone hides behind a computer (I'm even doing it!) so they say what they want, and a lot of those people who are med students have never experienced failure or any struggles and feel they are entitled to get into med school because of their high GPA and MCAT, hence the MD acceptances and a sense of "work hard and suck it up" attitude. This attitude is good but when it comes with arrogance thats when I have a problem with it. I have known several MD students who are like that and even some DO students like that it's just a personality trait some people have. I have always said I am not there to be the doctor's friend (when I'm a patient) and that is the way I look at SDN....I am not anyone's friend on here but much like a doctor, I need their help no matter how rude or arrogant they may be (not in most cases but a few obviously). You will most likely end up at a DO school that will be forgiving of your grades, if you're good with that then start the journey but you have work ahead of you.

Good Luck

 

[deleted898680]

Figured I may as well just jump into the rabbit hole here.....OP the past bad grades will haunt your app no matter what you do, as you take more credits, increasing the GPA gets harder. Realistically what you need to do is get your sGPA to a 3.0 or above (preferably above), then apply for a SMP preferably one affiliated with a med school for guaranteed admission. Once all that is done take the MCAT. With all of that done and if you do STELLAR then you should get in. This is about 3-5 years worth of work I would think.

As for the other posts you think are bashing you.....you have to remember on SDN everyone hides behind a computer (I'm even doing it!) so they say what they want, and a lot of those people who are med students have never experienced failure or any struggles and feel they are entitled to get into med school because of their high GPA and MCAT, hence the MD acceptances and a sense of "work hard and suck it up" attitude. This attitude is good but when it comes with arrogance thats when I have a problem with it. I have known several MD students who are like that and even some DO students like that it's just a personality trait some people have. I have always said I am not there to be the doctor's friend (when I'm a patient) and that is the way I look at SDN....I am not anyone's friend on here but much like a doctor, I need their help no matter how rude or arrogant they may be (not in most cases but a few obviously). You will most likely end up at a DO school that will be forgiving of your grades, if you're good with that then start the journey but you have work ahead of you.

Good Luck

Thank you for your input! I do realize it is a long journey but will reach their eventually. And ironically those people advise us to remain humble...whatever, its done. Moving forward with my head held up high, not with pride but by being humble thoughout my journey. Great people had great past! Goodluck guys.

 

[Robin-jay]

@Jeff_xd Life isn't fair. You want medical schools to throw you a bone when the reason why everyone wants to get into medical school is because of selectivity in its admission process. If a 2.5 was the new standard for admission, then who would medical schools be excluding?

People that would make excellent physicians.

I've seen enough 4.0/high MCAT automotons that have almost no clinical experience. Its a real stretch to say they would make excellent physicians with almost no work experience in a hospital/clinic to back it up. Good in medical school? sure. Good as a doctor? No one knows.

So I do think they would exclude very good physicians. I knew many people that did extraordinary things after a sub-par GPA (including being excellent Scribes, EMTs, CRNAs, etc.) and with increased trends in grades (post-bac/masters/PhD/SMP) that show they can handle being a physician, even if they end up with a 2.5 GPA combined with uGPA.

 

[Insert Member Name Here]

People that would make excellent physicians. I've seen enough 4.0/high MCAT automotons that have almost no clinical experience. Its a real stretch to say they would make excellent physicians with almost no work experience in a hospital/clinic to back it up. Good in medical school? sure. Good as a doctor? No one knows. So I do think they would exclude very good physicians. I knew many people that did extraordinary things after a sub-par GPA (including being excellent Scribes, EMTs, CRNAs, etc.) and with increased trends in grades (post-bac/masters/PhD/SMP) that show they can handle being a physician, even if they end up with a 2.5 GPA combined with uGPA.

And yet this misses the nuance of looking at the post holistically in that the socioeconomic reason as to why people want to go to medical school is built into the exclusivity factor with counterexamples of saturated and lenient admissions being revealed in law schools and pharmacy schools. Adcoms on this site have noted that they have more than enough competent applicants during any admission cycle and not just from a pure quantitative standpoint. I never stated that GPA ought to be an exclusive factor, because I don't believe GPA is everything. However, bombing classes can be analogous to a bad vital sign that needs to be scrutinized and reevaluated.

 

[ciestar]

People that would make excellent physicians.

I've seen enough 4.0/high MCAT automotons that have almost no clinical experience. Its a real stretch to say they would make excellent physicians with almost no work experience in a hospital/clinic to back it up. Good in medical school? sure. Good as a doctor? No one knows.

So I do think they would exclude very good physicians. I knew many people that did extraordinary things after a sub-par GPA (including being excellent Scribes, EMTs, CRNAs, etc.) and with increased trends in grades (post-bac/masters/PhD/SMP) that show they can handle being a physician, even if they end up with a 2.5 GPA combined with uGPA.

I actually have to agree here. So often those low GPAs are coming from basically lack of maturity as an 18 year old. That's why reinvention is good, but I feel more MD schools should consider it. I see a lot on SDN about terrible GPAs brought on from grades a decade prior. If you have a significant upward trend and have gotten >3.7 not counting those old grades..well, that should be considered. That is why I am not a fan of computer screens. People with excellent stories may not even get a chance.

My story helped get me in. I had a good GPA and MCAT, which helped me significantly, but metrics only get you so far.

 

[Robin-jay]

I never stated that GPA ought to be an exclusive factor, because I don't believe GPA is everything. However, bombing classes can be analogous to a bad vital sign that needs to be scrutinized and reevaluated.

Not after reinvention where the applicant has done the following:

1.) Shown high upward trends (and added academic feats such as publications, etc.), even with a horrible GPA combined with their younger selves.
2.) Worked clinically. Seriously.

 

[Insert Member Name Here]

Not after reinvention where the applicant has done the following:
1.) Shown high upward trends (and added academic feats such as publications, etc.), even with a horrible GPA combined with their younger selves.
2.) Worked clinically. Seriously.

You are coming in from the direction that capable candidates can be and should be granted admission into a medical school. I see the issue as being a zero sum condition in which there are more competent candidates than actual seats available in medical schools. I think reinvention ought to be rewarded, but not always at the expense of young mature students who are able to balance their EC medical activities with a stellar GPA/MCAT the first time around.

 

[Robin-jay]

You are coming in from the direction that capable candidates can be and should be granted admission into a medical school. I see the issue as being a zero sum condition in which there are more competent candidates than actual seats available in medical schools. I think reinvention ought to be rewarded, but not always at the expense of young mature students who are able to balance their EC medical activities with a stellar GPA/MCAT the first time around.

You can't say its a hyper competitive atmosphere and then in the same breathe say younger applicants that have a balanced medical ECs as being the most competitive. Some may argue that John Doe with 5000 clinical hours, and aced SMP, and a poor uGPA is better than the younger applicant.

Is it fair that John Doe got picked over a younger applicant that didn't need reinvention because of John Doe's new stats?

It may or may not be fair.

Point is that I don't believe reinvented students with excellent stats are actually less competitive than their undergrad. counterparts a fair amount of time. And many medical schools agree.

 

[Lawpy]

I don't know why this thread went to two pages. In any case, I highly recommend following @Goro advice regarding reinvention and reading this thread:

Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

This is the best possible advice you can get regarding transcript repair and reinvention.

 

[Goro]

You are coming in from the direction that capable candidates can be and should be granted admission into a medical school. I see the issue as being a zero sum condition in which there are more competent candidates than actual seats available in medical schools. I think reinvention ought to be rewarded, but not always at the expense of young mature students who are able to balance their EC medical activities with a stellar GPA/MCAT the first time around.

Fortunately, not all medical schools see it that way. A lot of us believe in redemption, and if anything, reinvention leads to wiser and more humble applicants. Reinventors are the minority demographic in med school applications.

 

[el_duderino]

Mgot accepted to an MD school that will only look at your most recent 32 hrs of science classes if they show a better GPA than your cumulative.

What school does such a thing?

 

[Insert Member Name Here]

@Goro I understand that people fall down and have witnessed redemption in the areas I work and volunteer in. I underwent situational homelessness after graduating from university with accruing debt which declined to episodic homelessness. I still went into my minimum wage job with a suit and tie as a pharmacy technician because I understood that this was the only thing I had. I had seriously considered suicide when my car wouldn't start and I had tapped out when I spent everything to receive a medical treatment that was needed in order to regain the function in order to eat. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for a happy marriage of circumstances. I would be disgusted to frame my current success as a "reinvention" or a "redemption" implying that I did it all on my own. I don't like sharing this narrative because the other times I have done it with associates have resulted in awkward situations of disbelief and avoidance, but it is a personal reason as to why I look at the SDN post-heroic narrative as being superficial when it is only framed as being GPA-failure or a bad MCAT. Really. If you have the financial resources and the time to take 350 more credits to balance out a bad undergrad then you were never destined to fail. Private MCAT tutors to balance out a bad MCAT? House in the Hamptons? Daddy's an investment banker? These are factors that likely bias my outlook on who I feel are genuine people who did their dues rather than a lot of graduates who can't find employment and jump into another four years of school instead of facing the music. Because boy it can be a hell of a ride.

 

[mellie0]

@Goro I understand that people fall down and have witnessed redemption in the areas I work and volunteer in. I underwent situational homelessness after graduating from university with accruing debt which declined to episodic homelessness. I still went into my minimum wage job with a suit and tie as a pharmacy technician because I understood that this was the only thing I had. I had seriously considered suicide when my car wouldn't start and I had tapped out when I spent everything to receive a medical treatment that was needed in order to regain the function in order to eat. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for a happy marriage of circumstances. I would be disgusted to frame my current success as a "reinvention" or a "redemption" implying that I did it all on my own. I don't like sharing this narrative because the other times I have done it with associates have resulted in awkward situations of disbelief and avoidance, but it is a personal reason as to why I look at the SDN post-heroic narrative as being superficial when it is only framed as being GPA-failure or a bad MCAT. Really. If you have the financial resources and the time to take 350 more credits to balance out a bad undergrad then you were never destined to fail. Private MCAT tutors to balance out a bad MCAT? House in the Hamptons? Daddy's an investment banker? These are factors that likely bias my outlook on who I feel are genuine people who did their dues rather than a lot of graduates who can't find employment and jump into another four years of school instead of facing the music. Because boy it can be a hell of a ride.

I just want to say that you are a strong person and I got really inspired by reading this. I'm sorry this all happened to you. I wish you the best of lucks in your medical education journey. It looks like you've worked really hard for everything you have, and I admire and respect that.

 

[Microbug]

@Goro I understand that people fall down and have witnessed redemption in the areas I work and volunteer in. I underwent situational homelessness after graduating from university with accruing debt which declined to episodic homelessness. I still went into my minimum wage job with a suit and tie as a pharmacy technician because I understood that this was the only thing I had. I had seriously considered suicide when my car wouldn't start and I had tapped out when I spent everything to receive a medical treatment that was needed in order to regain the function in order to eat. I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for a happy marriage of circumstances. I would be disgusted to frame my current success as a "reinvention" or a "redemption" implying that I did it all on my own. I don't like sharing this narrative because the other times I have done it with associates have resulted in awkward situations of disbelief and avoidance, but it is a personal reason as to why I look at the SDN post-heroic narrative as being superficial when it is only framed as being GPA-failure or a bad MCAT. Really. If you have the financial resources and the time to take 350 more credits to balance out a bad undergrad then you were never destined to fail. Private MCAT tutors to balance out a bad MCAT? House in the Hamptons? Daddy's an investment banker? These are factors that likely bias my outlook on who I feel are genuine people who did their dues rather than a lot of graduates who can't find employment and jump into another four years of school instead of facing the music. Because boy it can be a hell of a ride.

I'm sorry to hear about the challenges you had to face and congrats for making it to the end of the tunnel.
Granted it is true that

This is an assumption and it is not founded on the most solid of logic. What makes a student who has never failed at some point a better candidate?

The student is more mature, studious, organized... a lot of things can account for a student never failing. While I see your point about students who went through more hardship and later proved themselves may be stronger candidate in some aspects, that doesn’t mean a candidate who has great stats fresh out of undergrad hasn’t gone through hardship or is lacking bc they have never experienced “hardship.” Maybe they were more mature at an early age and knew where they want to go and realized they should be as perfect as possible.

 

[Afp0731]

What school does such a thing?

LSU New Orleans. I believe LSU shreveport may also follow the same rule. It's called the 32 hr rule and allows you to essentially start over if you can prove yourself with 32 hrs of 300 level or above bio/Chem.

 

[MDProspect]

where i did very well, and i will be graduating this may with a GPA of 3.6 and science GPA 3.3 only from current institution.

Your 3.3 science GPA tells me that you are doing about average without mastering any of the material. You also have a rocky academic history. Let's say you do manage to get into a medical school, do you think you will be able to simultaneously handle 5-8 upper-level science courses? If not, you should consider doing something else. In the long run, you will be much happier if you don't get in versus flunking out and having tens of thousands of dollars in debt.

 

[el_duderino]

LSU New Orleans. I believe LSU shreveport may also follow the same rule. It's called the 32 hr rule and allows you to essentially start over if you can prove yourself with 32 hrs of 300 level or above bio/Chem.

Interesting. LSU only recently started accepting any OOS students, and I believe it's still single digits per year. Louisiana doesn't have the strongest cohort of college students from which to fill medical school classes..

They seem to do just fine and make quite good physicians, of course. Which goes to show that there are far more qualified candidates than medical school seats, and medical schools by and large have ample opportunity to take the safer bets (those who managed to get good GPAs, ECs, and MCAT scores without needing to reinvent themselves).

 

[Afp0731]

Interesting. LSU only recently started accepting any OOS students, and I believe it's still single digits per year. Louisiana doesn't have the strongest cohort of college students from which to fill medical school classes..

They seem to do just fine and make quite good physicians, of course. Which goes to show that there are far more qualified candidates than medical school seats, and medical schools by and large have ample opportunity to take the safer bets (those who managed to get good GPAs, ECs, and MCAT scores without needing to reinvent themselves).

I believe Shreveport just started accepting OOS. Nola has been taking OOS for a while. I think. But yea, there is a strong in-state preference.

Haha yeaaa Louisiana is not exactly on the cutting edge of US education. And you are correct, the selection is not wanting anywhere.

 

[Insert Member Name Here]

This is an assumption and it is not founded on the most solid of logic. What makes a student who has never failed at some point a better candidate?

It is not an assumption to state that medical school acceptances are zero sum. Open seats for medical school are by nature limited to reflect the federal funding that is put into open residencies and to ensure that the students chosen are able to matriculate into such funded positions. Because the resource is finite, not everyone who is competent is able to be awarded a seat. If there is a flaw in this explanation then let me know, however LizzyM also had made a similar comment to this explaining the limitation behind medical seats in a thread called, "Why is Medical School so competitive?" or something along those lines.

Let's move on to the second part of the statement in which I discussed my thoughts on how acceptance ought not to exclusively center on reinvention. I don't see how this ethical conjecture is an assumption as I'm stating what I think should be considered moving forward. Note that I haven't stated my thoughts on the status quo nor did I mention that the zero sum condition was contextual to young college-medical school transition oriented students at odds with older post-bac/SMP/healthcare work based students. In fact, I elaborated that the zero sum condition was in the view that there are more competent applicants than seats available, however I never stated that either the "fail/non-fail" "younger/older" "first-timers/reinvetors" demographics were to be considered the "competent" applicant group. Hence, I don't understand where you found there to be an assumption or a lack of logic and elaborating on it would enable me to respond more effectively.

The reason for this lengthy explanation is because you seem to be confused and are asking me a hypothetical about whether I consider a student who "never failed" to be a better candidate than someone who has "failed." I've already emphasized that concepts such as success, failure, reinvention, and redemption should be scrutinized deeply on a holistic level. I understand that the predisposition of many people is to view holism in the medical application cycle as a means to hide or obfuscate areas of weakness, however very few people ascribe to the view that holistically uncovering weaknesses of an applicant is a better indicator of who they are than who they say they are. I think that if you dig deep enough there is a weakness within every applicant and that discussion with respect to weakness gives a better perspective of reading an individual than to gloss over the narrative they have formed on their past success.