National Guard instead of HPSP?

[EMH]

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Please either post your responsibilities or pm me as well. I'd appreciate it.

I've been told that my only job is to bring my recruiter leads. I will have to attend a couple of conferences each year. I don't have to wear a uniform to school but can if I wish. There is some vague wording in the document explaining the program that says we will be evaluated each year. I don't know what this means and have yet to ask about it.

 

[EMH]

Keep in mind that after 2 years in the Guard, you'll get promoted to 1LT, which means nearly a 1K/month pay raise. So you are looking at earning in the neighborhood of $150K over 3 years.

To add a bit of a disclaimer, you have to have completed OBC to get promoted in your third year (according to what I've been told). This isn't a problem for someone who joins in their first year because you can go your M1-M2 summer. But for us rising M2's that are considering the program this could be a bit of a problem as we're planning to study for the Step next summer and don't have a free summer the next year. If you can work it out with your school to take an open rotation your third year during the time that OBC is scheduled, which I plan on doing, then this is the way to go.

 

[iatrosB]

Woho!

Got final approval today...will be boarded by Sept!!

 

[iatrosB]

Woho!

Got final approval today...will be boarded by Sept!!

2 months start to finish, not bad

 

[amindwalker]

As someone who is still a civilian and thinking of joining I'll just echo what is the common message of everyone on this board. Don't join just for the money. As a doc in my states guard told me, "don't expect much out of them and be prepared to give more than they ask up front." Know what it is that you're signing up for.

You're signing up to help defend your country against threats at home and abroad. What the threats will be, and your obligation are unknown. I feel blessed to be a U.S. citizen. I want to give back to help take care of our soldiers and citizens.

Well said👍.

 

[amindwalker]

To add a bit of a disclaimer, you have to have completed OBC to get promoted in your third year (according to what I've been told). This isn't a problem for someone who joins in their first year because you can go your M1-M2 summer. But for us rising M2's that are considering the program this could be a bit of a problem as we're planning to study for the Step next summer and don't have a free summer the next year. If you can work it out with your school to take an open rotation your third year during the time that OBC is scheduled, which I plan on doing, then this is the way to go.

Also true. I will not make 1LT because I couldn't go to OBLC this summer.

Congrats iatrosB!!!!

 

[notdeadyet]

2 months start to finish, not bad

Not bad at all, iatroB. Nicely done...

 

[iatrosB]

Not bad at all, iatroB. Nicely done...

now I'm just crossing my fingers that there are ASR spots left for September.

Amindwalker, did you start the program in July like expected?

 

[amindwalker]

Yep! I'm the first one. I've been doing the job since may, but now I'm officially transfered to R & R command and on the payroll.

 

[lazyanteater]

2 months start to finish, not bad

damn , the guards takin a year on my packet , finally goes out next week. Two months aint bad at all.

 

[hamminitup]

I'm concerned that if I sign up now (about to start MS-2), I won't actually get into the program until the end of my second year. That leaves me two years to earn the officer's pay. Does that mean that instead of doing three years as a recruiter (which seems like the sweet part of the deal) and three years of being their weekend warrior, I'd do two years as a recruiter and four as a weekender?

Additionally, if I'm signing up for the Alabama National Guard, how will that work if I take a residency elsewhere? Or is this program not tied to the individual states in that way?

thanks

 

[amindwalker]

Yes, you would only have the ASR billet during school. After that, you'll be a resident, perhaps in a different state. During that time, you'll be a non-deployable, MC captain on a few weekends.

I have been assured by several sources that it is not a problem to transfer from one state's Guard to another. That is a normal thing that happens.

I am thankful that my packet took so long, otherwise I would not have gotten the ASR billet, but would be in the MDSSP (STRAP stipend thingy). Congrats lazyanteater on the fortuitous delay.

 

[BKMD]

Does anybody know if there are any limitations on specialty choice? Is it subject to the needs of the service or do you get to choose anything you want?

 

[AZhopeful]

In addition to BKMD's question above, I have a question that I believe was asked earlier on this thread but not explicitly answered:

Has anyone had any experience w/ going through the match once they're in the Guard? How does this look to program directors? What I'm getting at is some PDs may not be overly enthused to hear that their prospective employee 'has' to go away for drilling every now and then, even if it's not that often.

 

[notdeadyet]

Does anybody know if there are any limitations on specialty choice? Is it subject to the needs of the service or do you get to choose anything you want?

I'm curious about this as well. I was told that it was entirely up to you. When I asked about obviously less-Army applicable specialties like Child Psychiatry, he hemmed and hawed and said he'd look into it.

that said, Child Psych may be a no-no because it's technically a fellowship, even if it gets bundled with your psych residency.

 

[iatrosB]

Does anybody know if there are any limitations on specialty choice? Is it subject to the needs of the service or do you get to choose anything you want?

there are no limitations on specialty choice. You won't get the STRAP stipend if you don't do an approved specialty, but you can still do it.

The "catch" is, if you don't do a specialty they need in the guard (say pediatrics), they will have you complete your service in the reserves instead of guard.

 

[notdeadyet]

The "catch" is, if you don't do a specialty they need in the guard (say pediatrics), they will have you complete your service in the reserves instead of guard.

Huh. And would that mean that you wouldn't be covered by agreements on deployments (90 days boots in sand, every 18 months) that pertain to the Guard but NOT the Reserves?

 

[jonb12997]

I'm not sure about the deployment thing, although I think the reserve does the 90 day thing also, but if you do something that's a little more specialist related, it seems like you'll probably end up in the reserves...

does anyone know if they have any full CSH's in the guard? or are we pretty much looking at med commands that people are joining?

 

[amindwalker]

If you choose Radiology, Psychiatry, or Anesthesia, you will not be eligible for the Guard STRAP stipend during residency. My chain of command likes to use such residents as flight surgeons, but sometimes people do get transferred to the Reserves. But don't worry, they have the same 90 day policy for physician deployment. Keep in mind that you can't do medical residencies in the Guard, they are for the HPSPers. So you can do whatever residency you want (provided you match).

 

[Gastrapathy]

Huh. And would that mean that you wouldn't be covered by agreements on deployments (90 days boots in sand, every 18 months) that pertain to the Guard but NOT the Reserves?

There it is. I've been waiting to hear the catch and this, my friends, is probably it. What, pray tell, are the approved specialties? The reserves are most assuredly deployable and you can be activated for a year or more (ask all the doctors in Landstuhl about the 90 day thing). Someone needs to flesh out this little detail please.

 

[amindwalker]

Here ya go.

http://www.1800goguard.com/explore/medical/physician.php

I was told that Psych & rads were a no go, but that appears to not be the case.

 

[RDC12304]

Can anyone confirm or deny this info about specialties and being transferred from the guard to the reserves? I have never heard this and I feel that it is a pretty important fact to consider.

Thanks,
RDC
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[notdeadyet]

Can anyone confirm or deny this info about specialties and being transferred from the guard to the reserves? I have never heard this and I feel that it is a pretty important fact to consider.

I'm fairly along in the initial process and this is the first I'd heard of it. When I asked about specialties, the only mention from the recruiter was:

1) if you don't go into one of the list of desired specialties (as amindwalker listed), you aren't eligible for the STRAP stuff. AND

2) though you can do whatever you want in way of fellowships, you are no longer considered non-deployable once you complete your initial residency.

I'm very curious about the Reserve thing as well. I'd consider this a potential dealbreaker. If you're transferred from the Guard to the Reserves, all existing deals you had would be off. And though I know lots of happy folks in the Guard, I know more than a few disgruntled Reservists.

And for us interested in the Guard, if we wanted to join the Reserves, we would have joined the Reserves. If folks know more about this Guard--> Reserves thing, particularly if they've seen anything in writing, I'd love to learn more.

 

[iatrosB]

And for us interested in the Guard, if we wanted to join the Reserves, we would have joined the Reserves. If folks know more about this Guard--> Reserves thing, particularly if they've seen anything in writing, I'd love to learn more.

Well I'm the one who originally posted this, but yes, I've seen it in writing; and no, it doesn't make any sense.

 

[iatrosB]

Well I'm the one who originally posted this, but yes, I've seen it in writing; and no, it doesn't make any sense.

Here's the wording...take it for whatever you will:

"(2) Medical students who match into a non-STRAP approved residency which is also listed as non-compatible as a fill for a 62B will be given the option to fulfill their contractual service obligation in the USAR. The following specialties will be the only exceptions to fulfillment of the contractual service obligation in the ARNG:

(a) 60B – Nuclear Medicine

(b) 60N – Anesthesiologists

(c) 60U – Child Psychiatrist

(d) 61Q – Therapeutic Radiologist

(e) 61R – Diagnostic Radiologist

(f) 61U – Pathologist
"

 

[RDC12304]

Here's the wording...take it for whatever you will:

"(2) Medical students who match into a non-STRAP approved residency which is also listed as non-compatible as a fill for a 62B will be given the option to fulfill their contractual service obligation in the USAR. The following specialties will be the only exceptions to fulfillment of the contractual service obligation in the ARNG:

(a) 60B – Nuclear Medicine

(b) 60N – Anesthesiologists

(c) 60U – Child Psychiatrist

(d) 61Q – Therapeutic Radiologist

(e) 61R – Diagnostic Radiologist

(f) 61U – Pathologist
"

Given the option? I wonder 'how strongly' the option is presented. I am, though, a bit confused about the wording of the 2nd sentence - these are the specialties that will be given that option or these are the specialties that will be allowed to serve their MSO in the Guard even though they are not on the STRAP list?

 

[notdeadyet]

"(2) Medical students who match into a non-STRAP approved residency which is also listed as non-compatible as a fill for a 62B will be given the option to fulfill their contractual service obligation in the USAR. The following specialties will be the only exceptions to fulfillment of the contractual service obligation in the ARNG:

(a) 60B – Nuclear Medicine

(b) 60N – Anesthesiologists

(c) 60U – Child Psychiatrist

(d) 61Q – Therapeutic Radiologist

(e) 61R – Diagnostic Radiologist

(f) 61U – Pathologist
"

Thanks for the info, iatrosB. Very helpful.

So by their wording, any specialty not on the list of six above can fulfill their duty in the ARNG and not be forced into the Reserves. Can you correct me if I'm reading that incorrectly?

To further confuse things, the six specialties include Radiology, which the NG is actively recruiting for according to their website. (same one amindwalker linked to above).

 

[iatrosB]

or these are the specialties that will be allowed to serve their MSO in the Guard even though they are not on the STRAP list?

I read it as this.

All specialties considered eligible for STRAP AND these six can be served in the Guard...all the OTHERS can't. But that's just my interpretation.

 

[iatrosB]

To further confuse things, the six specialties include Radiology, which the NG is actively recruiting for according to their website. (same one amindwalker linked to above).

That list is essentially the "STRAP" list.

And to help clarify how I interpret the wording...if you did child psyc, you could serve in the guard even though it wasn't STRAP. Clear as mud?

 

[RDC12304]

That list is essentially the "STRAP" list.

And to help clarify how I interpret the wording...if you did child psyc, you could serve in the guard even though it wasn't STRAP. Clear as mud?

Well, I am not entirely sure what specialty I want to enter just yet, but I am in love with pathology and I am also applying for ASR program - so, assuming your interpretation is correct I would guess that a pathologist would be safe in the guard. Correct?


Also, can you give me the name of the document that this information came from?

 

[iatrosB]

Well, I am not entirely sure what specialty I want to enter just yet, but I am in love with pathology and I am also applying for ASR program - so, assuming your interpretation is correct I would guess that a pathologist would be safe in the guard. Correct?


Also, can you give me the name of the document that this information came from?

The document was e-mailed to me...it's named "ASR LOI 15 APR 08"

 

[iatrosB]

- so, assuming your interpretation is correct I would guess that a pathologist would be safe in the guard. Correct?

Yes.

 

[hamminitup]

Are reservists non-deployable during internship/residency? If so, I'm not sure how much difference it would make if I matched in something the guard didn't need and got sent to the reserves. Or am I missing something?

 

[amindwalker]

If you end up being transferred into the reserves, you would just have to swap out the patch on your left sleeve, you would lose drill pay, and promotion would slow down drastically. BUT, you would then be eligible for the STRAP stipend. Not the end of the world, if you ask me. You would not be deployable during residency, and when deployed, it would be for 90 days boots on the ground. IMHO, if you want to avoid being deployed ever, stay out of the military (a comment NOT directed at any individual).

 

[notdeadyet]

I read it as this.

All specialties considered eligible for STRAP AND these six can be served in the Guard...all the OTHERS can't. But that's just my interpretation.

Ah, my bad. I gave it the exact OPPOSITE reading. I thought that the six listed were considered Reserve-only.

And to help clarify how I interpret the wording...if you did child psyc, you could serve in the guard even though it wasn't STRAP. Clear as mud?

What in the world does the NG want with Child Psychiatrists. My admittedly extremely civilian understanding was that the National Guard tended to be more focused on combat arms and combat support whereas the Reserves was more broad in their focus. Interesting.

Disappointed to see that Neurology is not on the list. With all the TBI's, I would think that it would be on the go-list. At least before Nephrology...

I think I'd better ask my recruiter for a full document of the STRAP specialties rather than go by the recruiting website.

Thanks for the clarification...

 

[EMH]

In addition to BKMD's question above, I have a question that I believe was asked earlier on this thread but not explicitly answered:

Has anyone had any experience w/ going through the match once they're in the Guard? How does this look to program directors? What I'm getting at is some PDs may not be overly enthused to hear that their prospective employee 'has' to go away for drilling every now and then, even if it's not that often.

I had the same question and didn't know who to ask. I asked our dean of students who has more involvement with the match process at our school than anyone I know of. He thought that as long as you're not trying to match into something super competitive it wouldn't be a problem at all. He thought if you're trying to get into derm or something that there might be a program that would look at it negatively but that if you've got the numbers to get derm you would be able to get it somewhere. I've got a memo from my surgeon general stating that they won't interrupt my internship or residency. You might ask your recruiter for a similar memo.

 

[notdeadyet]

IMHO, if you want to avoid being deployed ever, stay out of the military (a comment NOT directed at any individual).

Truest words said on this thread.

 

[amindwalker]

Here's what I understand; if you match into one of the 6 specialties listed by iatrosB, you might get bumped into the reserves. The wording is funny but what I think it means is that you have a contractual obligation to the Guard, but if you match into one of those specialties, the Guard will let you fulfill that obligation in the reserves (meaning bye bye Guard, hello reserves). My C.O. (AMEDD recruitment & retention officer) read this list to me over the phone a month ago. He did that so that I could know what specialties are not needed in the Guard.

 

[hamminitup]

amindwalker, it seems with the ASR program that there is virtually no chance of being deployed. I'll be done with my commitment before I finish residency, and residents, according to this thread, are non-deployable. There is I suppose the chance that a major increase in military activity could cause them to change residents' non-deployable status. In actuality, all American men have a military service obligation of 8 years whether you sign up or not. If something so drastic happened to cause residents to lose their non-deployable status, it's likely that other physicians who didn't even sign up for the military would be called upon (drafted) to fulfill their 8-year MSO as happened with lots of physicians during Vietnam. My point being that while there is a small chance that I could be deployed if I I sign up for ASR, there is a comparably small chance that I could get deployed if I avoid the military altogether. So the way I see it, being an ASR doesn't really change your chances of deployment all that much as long as you don't take any of the extra stipends that incur commitment time beyond residency. Thoughts?

 

[RDC12304]

amindwalker, it seems with the ASR program that there is virtually no chance of being deployed. I'll be done with my commitment before I finish residency, and residents, according to this thread, are non-deployable. There is I suppose the chance that a major increase in military activity could cause them to change residents' non-deployable status. In actuality, all American men have a military service obligation of 8 years whether you sign up or not. If something so drastic happened to cause residents to lose their non-deployable status, it's likely that other physicians who didn't even sign up for the military would be called upon (drafted) to fulfill their 8-year MSO as happened with lots of physicians during Vietnam. My point being that while there is a small chance that I could be deployed if I I sign up for ASR, there is a comparably small chance that I could get deployed if I avoid the military altogether. So the way I see it, being an ASR doesn't really change your chances of deployment all that much as long as you don't take any of the extra stipends that incur commitment time beyond residency. Thoughts?

If there is one thing that I have learned from months of reading posts on this forum - don't do anything military for the money. Far too many people have shared their experiences, many of whom regretted signing the bottom line for the $ because they ended up unhappy with the military, milmed, deployments, etc.

 

[iatrosB]

So the way I see it, being an ASR doesn't really change your chances of deployment all that much as long as you don't take any of the extra stipends that incur commitment time beyond residency. Thoughts?

I can see your logic...but the military doesn't always work logically. Meaning, I am going to assume there is some clause in the contract that prohibits this sort of thing from happening. Remember, there is no such thing as a free lunch...don't sign up without being able to accept the possibility of extended commitments and possible deployments.

Hope for the best, plan for the worst is my take on it.

 

[superiordoc]

From my reading of what paperwork I have been given, this program will receive funding on a yearly basis from the NG Bureau because students will be paid as 'recruiters' rather than receiving an upfront scholarship. Can anyone with military experience speculate on the chances that the program loses funding or gets cancelled, especially with a change in office coming?

 

[amindwalker]

My C.O. (AMEDD recruitment & retention command for Pennsylvania Guard) has it written on our powerpoint presentation that if the funding falls through, the ASR will be released from their MSO (military service obligation).

 

[hamminitup]

Does anybody know what kind of bonus the guard offers for recruiting someone to this program? The GRAP bonus for enlisting someone is $2000 I think, and it goes higher than that for officers. Just wondering where ASR falls in that spectrum. I have a friend in the guard who qualifies for GRAP, so he's going to "recruit" me to the program and split the bonus with me. It's really easy to do, and I'd recommend everybody signing up for anything in the military get a member of your branch to recruit you.

 

[iatrosB]

Does anybody know what kind of bonus the guard offers for recruiting someone to this program? The GRAP bonus for enlisting someone is $2000 I think, and it goes higher than that for officers. Just wondering where ASR falls in that spectrum. I have a friend in the guard who qualifies for GRAP, so he's going to "recruit" me to the program and split the bonus with me. It's really easy to do, and I'd recommend everybody signing up for anything in the military get a member of your branch to recruit you.

When you are in the ASR, you don't get any bonuses for recruitment (because you are considered recruitment personnel already).

 

[amindwalker]

If your buddy splits the bonus with you, he's committing fraud and could be prosecuted. If he's qualified for G-RAP, he has already signed a document (online) that stipulates that he will not split the bonus with you or anyone else. I know you might be able to put 1K to good use, but if you take it from him, you could get in trouble as well, because by then, you will be a member of the armed forces on active duty within the recruitment and retention command. Of course, "they" would have to find out about it. Sorry to pee on your flowers. Obviously, you can do whatever you want.

iatrosB is correct, no bonus for you.

 

[amindwalker]

But wait, there's more! I just found out that ASRs (in Pennsylvania, at least) will only be required to drill on campus quarterly (once every 3 months). 👍👍👍 I hope it goes that way for the rest of you.

 

[iatrosB]

But wait, there's more! I just found out that ASRs (in Pennsylvania, at least) will only be required to drill on campus quarterly (once every 3 months). 👍👍👍 I hope it goes that way for the rest of you.

Cool 👍

How'd you find that out?

 

[amindwalker]

I was talking to my C.O. over the phone today and I asked him about drills. I had been drilling with the med-det, and since I am now assigned to the r & r command, I figured I should inquire about the specifics of drill weekends. I am pleased.

 

[JONA1976]

Does anyone have a contact email address for someone involved in the program from the National Guard - and let me specify not from a state or local recruiter? I would like to talk to someone directly involved in the program - to see what my chances are of securing a spot within a specific unit. It's complicated and I'd rather not waste my time with a local recruiter who probably knows next to nothing about the program.

PM preferred. Thank you ahead of time.