Naturopathic Medicine?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
J

JustLookingforAnswers

Membership Revoked
Removed
7+ Year Member
Joined
May 21, 2016
Messages
95
Reaction score
32
Is it reliable & effective? I have heard many criticisms regarding herbal medicine and it does look interesting, but I am afraid it might be BS lol. Can anyone clarify? Thanks.
Members don't see this ad.
 
It is nonsensical nonscientific garbage, not medicine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Members don't see this ad :)
JustLookingforAnswers said:
Is it reliable & effective? I have heard many criticisms regarding herbal medicine and it does look interesting, but I am afraid it might be BS lol. Can anyone clarify? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Pay me 3 easy payments of $49.95 and I'll answer your question. ACT NOW, offer expires in 15 minutes.

I pity the fool who takes herbs
 
  • Like
Reactions: 7 users
It is all a bunch of bull..
If herbal medicine was so great then why the hell did people die of all those diseases back in the day until true doctors/scientists researched and discovered cures via clinical trials?

For example:
Taking certain herbs is not going to cure your cancer or whatever...
Billions are spent annually on cancer research, and they don't do it for nothing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
People still believe in astrology; does that mean we can throw out our astronomy books?

Concerning chiropractic, please show us a subluxation.

Concerning acupuncture, we have little faith in something whose "meridians" are organized and labelled by Chinese geography.

It's not that people like the familiar, it's that we like things that can be proven.


Dr. In Formation said:
The answer is just one of those things you'll have to figure out for yourself.

There are positives and negatives from both evidence-based scientific inquiry and naturopathic medicine IMHO.

People used to believe chiropractors and acupuncture was quackery (and some still do).

Medicine is regulated and controlled, and therefore less unknown. People like the familiar.
https://publications.nigms.nih.gov/medbydesign/chapter3.html
Click to expand...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 12 users
Got into a conversation with a naturopathic student recently, under the premise of her being a "medical student," as she put it. When I asked where she went and she told me, I couldn't stop laughing for a solid 30 seconds.

Sure, there's decent natural remedies out there. But when push comes to shove, I'll take modern science. There's a reason we live longer than we did a century ago.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
redferrari said:
Got into a conversation with a naturopathic student recently, under the premise of her being a "medical student," as she put it. When I asked where she went and she told me, I couldn't stop laughing for a solid 30 seconds.

Sure, there's decent natural remedies out there. But when push comes to shove, I'll take modern science. There's a reason we live longer than we did a century ago.
Click to expand...

I've also noticed Naturopathic schools are a lot less selective than U.S. Medical Schools. For example, it's not uncommon for a naturopathic applicant to gain acceptance with only a 3.1 or 3.2 cumulative GPA, whereas in U.S M.D. schools you need like a 3.7+ to be considered competitive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
JustLookingforAnswers said:
I've also noticed Naturopathic schools are a lot less selective than U.S. Medical Schools. For example, it's not uncommon for a naturopathic applicant to gain acceptance with only a 3.1 or 3.2 cumulative GPA, whereas in U.S M.D. schools you need like a 3.7+ to be considered competitive.
Click to expand...
Do those schools use the NCAT as an entrance exam? :laugh:
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
I wouldn't throw in accupuncture, Chinese, or Indian/ayurveda medicine in with naturopathy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Goro said:
People still believe in astrology; does that mean we can throw out our astronomy books?

Concerning chiropractic, please show us a subluxation.

Concerning acupuncture, we have little faith in something whose "meridians" are organized and labelled by Chinese geography.

It's not that people like the familiar, it's that we like things that can be proven.
Click to expand...

As previously stated, in this life, the true answers to most questions lie within.

But that's just some hokey spiritual "wash on, wash off" nonsense.

3068acfa53c0c014b65b060b8b3679c3.jpg
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Dr. In Formation said:
As previously stated, in this life, the true answers to most questions lie within.

But that's just some hokey spiritual "wash on, wash off" nonsense.

3068acfa53c0c014b65b060b8b3679c3.jpg
Click to expand...
I am sure this reasoning works well on the MCAT.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 users
If something works it is incorporated into modern medicine, if it doesn't it gets left by the wayside. Naturopathic medicine for the most part is absolute non sense . Especially homeopathy. If there are herbs that are efficacious their active ingredients are extracted purified and packed in a standard form to be dispensed for patients after conducting clinical trials.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
libertyyne said:
If something works it is incorporated into modern medicine, if it doesn't it gets left by the wayside. Naturopathic medicine for the most part is absolute non sense . Especially homeopathy. If there are herbs that are efficacious their active ingredients are extracted purified and packed in a standard form to be dispensed for patients after conducting clinical trials.
Click to expand...
#pharma :)
 
OP, I hope you got the answers you seek. Asking others to decide your future is tantamount to asking them to live your life for you. I really wouldn't recommend taking life advice from a bunch of anonymous strangers on a forum called "student DOCTOR network."

If naturopathy is something that interests you, do as you would do in any career, shadow, get informational interviews, look on various websites, and form your own conclusions.
 
I'm all for it as long as it can get past the same burden of proof as evidence based medicine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
kavorca said:
I wouldn't throw in accupuncture, Chinese, or Indian/ayurveda medicine in with naturopathy.
Click to expand...
Acupuncture is categorized as a pseudoscience, just as naturopathy and homeopathic medicine are. By definition, they are "thrown in" together, there's no evidence of effectiveness.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Healer@1994 said:
At first I thought you were kidding! Hahaha
Do they have ANCAS??
Click to expand...
I just looked it up too! I love how all but one of their schools are on the west coast
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I would rather work as a trash collector than a quack.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
Dr. In Formation said:
The new hierarchy of snark on SDN is MD > DO > Dentist > Caribbean MD > Other IMG MD > PA > NP > CNRA > AA > ND and everyone else.

No one really cares about healing. Just the eternal arguing of who's better than who and why.

http://www.medpagetoday.com/publichealthpolicy/workforce/51917
Click to expand...

Oh come on. Show me a case of naturopathic medicine prevailing over evidence-based medicine and I'll show you 10 cases of patients harmed by herbal concoctions or lack of actual medical intervention. Now who is it who really cares about healing?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 12 users
If patients find value in alternative medicine, I don't understand what purpose ridiculing them or their practitioner(s) serves. There's a reason Auryvedic, Chinese medicine, and natural remedies have been around thousands of years, while modern medicine is still developing.

Medical anthropology is fascinating. People are healed by many means, quite often through the power of suggestion, or even blind faith.

I don't think anyone should discount that. As a professional who's supposed to be a lifelong learner, I'd rather keep an open mind.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Dr. In Formation said:
If patients find value in alternative medicine, I don't understand what purpose ridiculing them or their practitioner(s) serves. There's a reason Auryvedic, Chinese medicine, and natural remedies have been around thousands of years, while modern medicine is still developing.

Medical anthropology is fascinating. People are healed by many means, quite often through the power of suggestion, or even blind faith.

I don't think anyone should discount that. As a professional who's supposed to be a lifelong learner, I'd rather keep an open mind.
Click to expand...

Because naturopathic remedies can harm patients. And not appropriately treating medical conditions harms patients.

You can keep an open mind all you want. If I have a cancer patient who believes acupuncture helps them, then sure, go for it. As a complement to, not in place of, medical therapy. A bunch of herbs and water isn't going to cure your cancer.

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Victims/craven.html
https://www.naturopathicdiaries.com/restrict-licensed-naturopaths/
https://www.naturopathicdiaries.com/the-morality-of-practicing-medicine/
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
Dr. In Formation said:
If patients find value in alternative medicine, I don't understand what purpose ridiculing them or their practitioner(s) serves. There's a reason Auryvedic, Chinese medicine, and natural remedies have been around thousands of years, while modern medicine is still developing.

Medical anthropology is fascinating. People are healed by many means, quite often through the power of suggestion, or even blind faith.

I don't think anyone should discount that. As a professional who's supposed to be a lifelong learner, I'd rather keep an open mind.
Click to expand...

There is also a reason people used to die from basic stuff thousands of years ago and up until evidenced based medicine took over.
Also I am keeping an open mind, this herbal quack crap actually harms people and does a disservice to society.
Then the parents who believe often keep their kids from getting life saving treatment..
 
The comparison to astrology vs astronomy gave me a good laugh.

Astrology sure as hell didn't put man on the moon

And "alternative "medicine"" sure as hell didn't extend the lifespan of man by 30+ years
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
kb1900 said:
The comparison to astrology vs astronomy gave me a good laugh.

Astrology sure as hell didn't put man on the moon

And "alternative "medicine"" sure as hell didn't extend the lifespan of man by 30+ years
Click to expand...
Well, i mean lets be honest here modern medicine didn't necessarily extend lifespans by 30+ years by itself, sanitation and public health are big contributors to that number. Still, all of that is science based reproducible, unlike anything in nut-o-pathy.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
libertyyne said:
Well, i mean lets be honest here modern medicine didn't necessarily extend lifespans by 30+ years by itself sanitation and public health are big contributors to that number. Still, all of that is science based reproducible unlike anything in nut-o-pathy.
Click to expand...
Yeah in my mind whether someone is talking about their support of Naturopathic/alternative, what they're really protesting is science and evidence based science
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Dr. In Formation said:
There's a reason Auryvedic, Chinese medicine, and natural remedies have been around thousands of years
Click to expand...

And people have been dying of basic things for thousands of years.... should we go back to mercury treatments and blood letting too?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
JustLookingforAnswers said:
I've also noticed Naturopathic schools are a lot less selective than U.S. Medical Schools. For example, it's not uncommon for a naturopathic applicant to gain acceptance with only a 3.1 or 3.2 cumulative GPA, whereas in U.S M.D. schools you need like a 3.7+ to be considered competitive.
Click to expand...

The stats of the matriculants aren't relevant - Naturopathy isn't nonsense just because the average naturopathic student got mostly Bs in undergrad rather than mostly As. It's nonsense because naturopathy itself isn't based on science.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
libertyyne said:
If something works it is incorporated into modern medicine, if it doesn't it gets left by the wayside. Naturopathic medicine for the most part is absolute non sense . Especially homeopathy. If there are herbs that are efficacious their active ingredients are extracted purified and packed in a standard form to be dispensed for patients after conducting clinical trials.
Click to expand...
It's good to realize that there are actually some important limitations to this philosophy though. A lot of what we know about "herbal" or alternative compounds is from empiric data often from low quality studies, not mechanistic/molecular studies or good RCTs. Then there are many things with almost no research, or maybe just some case studies etc. So while the idea that if something "works" it will be accepted is true, there is often a huge barrier to making that determination.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
CaliforniaDreamer said:
It's good to realize that there are actually some important limitations to this philosophy though. Most of what we know about the few "herbal" or alternative compounds is from empiric data often from low quality studies, not mechanistic/molecular studies or good RCTs. Then there are many things with almost no research, or maybe just some case studies etc. So while the idea that if something "works" it will be accepted is true, there is often a huge barrier to making that determination.
Click to expand...
No, there's not. Research into natural/herbal nonsense is usually one of the most accessible topics for junior researchers trying to get published. If its a food or sold at GNC its very easy to get past an IRB. The last major metastudy on whether honey is effective for cough had to sort through nearly 1,200 possibly studies. We do not lack data on this crap, there is just no amount of data that is going to convince anyone that that their particular brand of magic doesn't work.

What is difficult is convincing someone to let you give an actual medicine to a patient. That's when they start demanding animal model studies before consideration by a full IRBs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Perrotfish said:
No, there's not. Research into natural/herbal nonsense is usually one of the most accessible topics for junior researchers trying to get published. If its a food or sold at GNC its very easy to get past an IRB. The last major metastudy on whether honey is effective for cough had to sort through nearly 1,200 possibly studies. We do not lack data on this crap, there is just no amount of data that is going to convince anyone that that their particular brand of magic doesn't work.

What is difficult is convincing someone to let you give an actual medicine to a patient. That's when they start demanding animal model studies before consideration by a full IRBs.
Click to expand...
Maybe for answering some simple, time limited questions, but asking whether xyz vitamin supplement decreases mortality or affects some specific cancer risk, along with which dosage range confers that benefit, requires a huge amount of time, maybe decades, and a large number of participants, and there really have not been many of these, and some that have been done tend to be difficult to interpret.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
This is scary, these quack "doctors" are actually allowed to practice as a primary care physician in many states... They are pushing for unrestricted primary care like a D.O or M.D...
You have to be from a school with accreditation from the "ANCAS" but still.... This is scary
AANMC_LicensureMap_Nov2016withnames.png
 
Dr.Sticks said:
This is scary, these quack "doctors" are actually allowed to practice as a primary care physician in many states... They are pushing for unrestricted primary care like a D.O or M.D...
You have to be from a school with accreditation from the "ANCAS" but still.... This is scary
AANMC_LicensureMap_Nov2016withnames.png
Click to expand...
Some husband of the real housewives of somewhere faked having cancer via a diagnosis from his ND provider.

Now I know that somewhere = california!
 
CaliforniaDreamer said:
It's good to realize that there are actually some important limitations to this philosophy though. Most of what we know about the few "herbal" or alternative compounds is from empiric data often from low quality studies, not mechanistic/molecular studies or good RCTs. Then there are many things with almost no research, or maybe just some case studies etc. So while the idea that if something "works" it will be accepted is true, there is often a huge barrier to making that determination.
Click to expand...
The burden of proof is still on natruopaths to prove that it is efficacious if they want to be taken seriously.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/science/herbal-supplements-are-often-not-what-they-seem.html
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
kb1900 said:
Some husband of the real housewives of somewhere faked having cancer via a diagnosis from his ND provider.

Now I know that somewhere = california!
Click to expand...
Brooks from Real Housewives Orange County!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Also, NUNM's website states: "NUNM‘s Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine is an intensive four–year doctoral program that trains holistic primary care physicians"

This is probably why DO ADCOM's get sick of people describing osteopathic medicine as holistic in their essays :rolleyes:
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

C
  • Question
MA job at a naturopathic clinic ok?
2
Replies
50
Views
6K
THEBACKANDFORTH
THEBACKANDFORTH
G
  • Locked
What is the consensus on Naturopathic (ND) schools?
2
Replies
95
Views
7K
Ferrismonk
Ferrismonk
C
Help w/ future path to medicine
Replies
1
Views
153
Mr.Smile12
Mr.Smile12
D
Naturopathic "Medicine"
Replies
25
Views
4K
Matthew9Thirtyfive
Matthew9Thirtyfive
A
  • Locked
Insight on the Renaissance School of Medicine
Replies
1
Views
444
GoSpursGo
GoSpursGo
Top