Navy docs - where were you stationed during your time in?

[Beneath the marquee]

And what did you like/dislike about it

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[Onefellswoop87]

Navy physician are at every navy hospital, some at army hospitals, assigned with ships and other operational units. So to answer your first question about where navy docs are, all over.

But to the second, what kind of specific information are you seeking?

What I liked and didn’t about the duty station was affected by things that will not be applicable to another person at a different time: family situation, individual job satisfaction, command climate, specifics of the area, etc.
I’ve been around the world with the Navy: Europe, tropical Caribbean island, Hawaii, east coast of USA, temporary duty to west coast, and going to pacific this autumn. I’ve tried to stay overseas because that works for me and my family. I dislike big cities, hence why I’ve never tried to be stationed in San Diego or around Bethesda.

 

[narcusprince]

The more I am away from the navy life the more I can be positive about it.
Nmcp- Loved the camaraderie, good relationship with surgeons and specialists. Great place to get **** done. Norfolk not the best place to live but I lived on the ocean so that was enjoyable.
Jax- Probably the most challenging command I was at bad leadership up and down the flagpole. Jax great place to live gyms, outside activities, weekends were like a vacation.
Gtmo- Probably the funnest navy experience adult day camp. I ate the best, slept the best, had an extreme amount of time for extracurricular activities. Met life long friends. Best “Navy” experience.

 

[libo1369]

NMCP: Internship it was a TY internship people were good, opportunities were great...but it was internship so kinda sucked.
MCAS Iwakuni Clinic: Amazing people, Fantastic Location, Living in Japan is the best. Tons of travel and still friends with most of the people from there. The base grew from 4k to 14k with no additional help at the clinic and the clinic was old (at the time new one now). The command was mmm lets go with poor leadership.
CNSS-14: Overseeing the Cruisers and Destroyers at Naval Station Mayport. So much fun! plenty of time for family, friends, great location, Learned what good leadership was and developed my own style of leadership. I was on the border of getting out when I arrived and it turned my frown upside down. Went out on various ships from a day to over a month. Would go back 100%
USS New York: Senior Medical officer on the New York LPD21! Amazing ship, Really busy was away from my family 18 months out of the two years I was onboard. We got to visit some great ports such as Miami, Abu Dhabi, and saw the piers at Jordan, and Duqm Oman. Really a tough cruise with COVID-19 happening on deployment but the operational experience is irreplaceable. Not enough Docs go out and do Operational stuff to understand the specific stressors affecting the populations they are treating. 80% wouldn't do it again but 100% wouldn't have wanted to miss it.
USU/WRNMMC: Residency training for OEM and getting my MPH. Really fantastic. I know not everyone can say this about their residency but we had 40 hour weeks, 2 days off a week, and interesting rotations to include: NSA, Hawaii Ship Yards, OSHA, FBOP, NFPA, Norfolk Ship Yards, UMD... I felt well prepared for boards and felt it prepared me well for everything I have come across since.
NAMRU-Dayton: What is a Navy guy doing in Ohio? Well it's why I picked it. We do research for Aerospace Medicine and Environmental Health Effects. Overall it's a great duty station, Small with just about 12 Officers and zero enlisted filled out by Contractors and GS. Can be as involved and am the Medical Officer on all our Human research studies. Still chugging along here and only one move to go before retirement so hope this all helps.

 

[Konigstiger]

MCAS Iwakuni Clinic: Amazing people, Fantastic Location, Living in Japan is the best. Tons of travel and still friends with most of the people from there. The base grew from 4k to 14k with no additional help at the clinic and the clinic was old (at the time new one now). The command was mmm lets go with poor leadership.

Was this a flight surgeon billet or something else? I'd actually like to be stationed there too someday.

 

[armytrainingsir]

NMCP: Internship it was a TY internship people were good, opportunities were great...but it was internship so kinda sucked.
MCAS Iwakuni Clinic: Amazing people, Fantastic Location, Living in Japan is the best. Tons of travel and still friends with most of the people from there. The base grew from 4k to 14k with no additional help at the clinic and the clinic was old (at the time new one now). The command was mmm lets go with poor leadership.
CNSS-14: Overseeing the Cruisers and Destroyers at Naval Station Mayport. So much fun! plenty of time for family, friends, great location, Learned what good leadership was and developed my own style of leadership. I was on the border of getting out when I arrived and it turned my frown upside down. Went out on various ships from a day to over a month. Would go back 100%
USS New York: Senior Medical officer on the New York LPD21! Amazing ship, Really busy was away from my family 18 months out of the two years I was onboard. We got to visit some great ports such as Miami, Abu Dhabi, and saw the piers at Jordan, and Duqm Oman. Really a tough cruise with COVID-19 happening on deployment but the operational experience is irreplaceable. Not enough Docs go out and do Operational stuff to understand the specific stressors affecting the populations they are treating. 80% wouldn't do it again but 100% wouldn't have wanted to miss it.
USU/WRNMMC: Residency training for OEM and getting my MPH. Really fantastic. I know not everyone can say this about their residency but we had 40 hour weeks, 2 days off a week, and interesting rotations to include: NSA, Hawaii Ship Yards, OSHA, FBOP, NFPA, Norfolk Ship Yards, UMD... I felt well prepared for boards and felt it prepared me well for everything I have come across since.
NAMRU-Dayton: What is a Navy guy doing in Ohio? Well it's why I picked it. We do research for Aerospace Medicine and Environmental Health Effects. Overall it's a great duty station, Small with just about 12 Officers and zero enlisted filled out by Contractors and GS. Can be as involved and am the Medical Officer on all our Human research studies. Still chugging along here and only one move to go before retirement so hope this all helps.

Sounds like a fun career.

The key take away is you had a Forrest Gump career where everything just ‘worked out’. I had one in the army as well, split between AD and reserves.

Which is the #1 reason why folks stay til retirement; it all just worked out.

 

[militaryPHYS]

My takeaway was that someone who didn’t go straight through in to residency training and had to make the most of it found opportunities to enjoy the things that operational time has to offer.

Satisfied people in MilMed didn’t all just get lucky. Unhappy people in MilMed didn’t all get screwed. There are things to do and mindsets to adopt that will increase your chances of satisfaction if you choose to stay or just need to make it through 4 years of payback.

Thanks for sharing @libo1369. Hope the last few years are smooth sailing for you.

 

[pgg]

My takeaway was that someone who didn’t go straight through in to residency training and had to make the most of it found opportunities to enjoy the things that operational time has to offer.

Satisfied people in MilMed didn’t all just get lucky. Unhappy people in MilMed didn’t all get screwed. There are things to do and mindsets to adopt that will increase your chances of satisfaction if you choose to stay or just need to make it through 4 years of payback.

Thanks for sharing @libo1369. Hope the last few years are smooth sailing for you.

I spent 3 years as a green side GMO at Lejeune after I didn't get selected for residency right out of internship.

Those were 3 of the best years I had in the Navy.

At the time I wasn't super happy about not going directly to residency. But as you said, mindset matters. I embraced the idea of some operational time, asked for a Marine infantry battalion, and gave it my best. Unique and rewarding life experience. It worked out well enough for me and my family that I extended the two year tour for a third year - didn't even apply to GME at the 2-year mark.

The happiest people I've known in the military were above all flexible and willing to make the most of temporary opportunities/setbacks as they came.

80% wouldn't do it again but 100% wouldn't have wanted to miss it.

Applies to my GMO time too. It was (mostly) an interesting, fun, rewarding detour. Not without hazards (of various sorts) but those 3 years hold a disproportionately large fraction of the good life memories from my Navy time. I was basically content with most of the remaining years I was in.

There's definitely more to life and a career than checking the right boxes in the right sequence to make progress on time.

(In hindsight there were hazards I didn't fully appreciate at the time ... hence my agreement with the "80% wouldn't do it again" bit. But I've discussed those thoughts at length elsewhere. No need to derail this thread with a rehash.)

 

[Onefellswoop87]

Satisfied people in MilMed didn’t all just get lucky. Unhappy people in MilMed didn’t all get screwed.

Quoting for truth there

I’ve been largely happy in MilMed but in 12 years I’ve been at 7 different duty stations (only one local move between duty stations #3 and 4). The prior 2 tours were 18 months and 24 months but they were accompanied, unique places, and my family was happy. Wife and I have really tried to raise our kids (middle schooler and elementary age now) with a “bloom where your planted” mindset and apply that to each PCS as a new adventure.

I’ll readily admit those moves and transitions wouldn’t work for other families. But my wife is a stay at home mom and though we have three-year orders now our wanderlust and itch for a new home will probably kick in at the 18 to 24 month mark and will be ready to move at 36 months.

I promise you I’m not Joe-Navy but maybe in hindsight and reflecting on this post, we have largely gotten lucky because we’ve asked the Navy for new experiences and they’ve been able to move us around the world as we’ve asked. If I’d wanted to homestead, I’d feel pretty unlucky because my desires would not align with the needs of the Navy.

 

[usnavdoc]

NMCP surgery internship 01-02. All MTF are basically community level hospitals ultimately. And imo the training is on par with a community hosp.
Prior to 9/11 I had orders to a command ship out of Gaeta Italy. Thought I was going to be living large in Europe for a while. Detailer called a few weeks after 9/11 and my orders changed to a ship out of Norfolk. I said F that and went greenside.

02-06 Camp Lejeune 2nd Marine Division. 4 years as a Battalion Surgeon/GMO at Camp Lejeune running all over the world with the infantry. Loved every day of that life and still keep in touch with the sailors and Marines I served with.

I agree mentality has a lot to do with situational happiness, but in early GWOT we are all motivated. World is different now though.

I got to travel with good friends and see the world, both good and bad. I don't regret one minute of my time.

 

[Beneath the marquee]

NMCP surgery internship 01-02. All MTF are basically community level hospitals ultimately. And imo the training is on par with a community hosp.
Prior to 9/11 I had orders to a command ship out of Gaeta Italy. Thought I was going to be living large in Europe for a while. Detailer called a few weeks after 9/11 and my orders changed to a ship out of Norfolk. I said F that and went greenside.

02-06 Camp Lejeune 2nd Marine Division. 4 years as a Battalion Surgeon/GMO at Camp Lejeune running all over the world with the infantry. Loved every day of that life and still keep in touch with the sailors and Marines I served with.

I agree mentality has a lot to do with situational happiness, but in early GWOT we are all motivated. World is different now though.

I got to travel with good friends and see the world, both good and bad. I don't regret one minute of my time.

I'm currently an EM PGY-1. Considering spending a few years in the Navy after residency but never actually been in the military. How difficult was it to get a greenside/FMF billet?

 

[pgg]

I'm currently an EM PGY-1. Considering spending a few years in the Navy after residency but never actually been in the military. How difficult was it to get a greenside/FMF billet?

As a GMO - easy. Ask the detailer and they'll fall over themselves getting you to Division.

As a new attending - less easy. It used to be that new joins and new residency grads generally had to do a utilization tour in their specialty before the Navy would really consider sending them to operational billets. It may be different now.

However - before you embark on this plan, consider that it might not be the best idea for you professionally. New grads in any specialty ought to take jobs in which they are practicing the full spectrum of their specialty. You'll graduate as a safe EM physician but not necessarily great/efficient at it. The learning curve out of residency is still fairly steep, and that hard-earned knowledge and skill needs to be reinforced and solidified.

You certainly wouldn't be practicing anything close to the full spectrum of EM in a FMF billet. It's hard enough to do that at the military hospitals, which generally don't see many civilians and are mostly glorified urgent care clinics.

There have been efforts in the last couple years to get some civilian trauma and emergency volume into military hospitals. For many years the barriers were just too high - ambulances just couldn't drive through the gates onto military bases, and most civilians aren't eligible for care at military hospitals. When I left in 2022 Portsmouth was starting to make some progress in that direction, building the framework to let the ambulances on base and figure out how to bill insurance companies for care. Wasn't much juice for the squeeze at that time and I'm skeptical it'll ever be high volume / high acuity.

It's sort of surprising, but there's very, very little "EM" getting done at military hospitals. They can be busy, sort of, but it tends to be high volume / low acuity stuff.

 

[Beneath the marquee]

The learning curve out of residency is still fairly steep, and that hard-earned knowledge and skill needs to be reinforced and solidified.

You certainly wouldn't be practicing anything close to the full spectrum of EM in a FMF billet. It's hard enough to do that at the military hospitals, which generally don't see many civilians and are mostly glorified urgent care clinics.

This has definitely crossed my mind. Was moonlighting possible while you were greenside? Or just...you know, at all?

 

[pgg]

This has definitely crossed my mind. Was moonlighting possible while you were greenside? Or just...you know, at all?

I was greenside as a GMO - finished internship, licensed, but not residency trained. I wasn't really employable anywhere worth working. There were a few people who did some work at urgent care doc-in-box kind of places. I suspect those kinds of jobs, which were rare 20 years ago when I was a GMO, don't really exist anywhere anymore. Not a lot of people are hiring doctors without residency training, and many states won't even license someone without at least 2 years of GME training.

Post-residency, I was a moonlighting machine. Most years I did more cases and earned more money moonlighting than I did in the Navy.


EM is a field well suited for moonlighting. It's shift work without any kind of continuity requirement, and there's a need for evening and weekend shift coverage.

Most commands permit moonlighting. There are typically limits to number of hours per week, and mandatory rest periods before starting a Navy shift. Some geographic areas have a greater need than others. You might get lucky and find yourself somewhere with a lot of need, or you might get unlucky and find yourself somewhere that doesn't need much.


Give some thought to whether or not you want to take a job for which you feel the need to spend your time off working at another job because that job doesn't have enough worthwhile work to do. That's military EM, in a nutshell.

 

[revaew]

There have been efforts in the last couple years to get some civilian trauma and emergency volume into military hospitals. For many years the barriers were just too high - ambulances just couldn't drive through the gates onto military bases, and most civilians aren't eligible for care at military hospitals. When I left in 2022 Portsmouth was starting to make some progress in that direction, building the framework to let the ambulances on base and figure out how to bill insurance companies for care. Wasn't much juice for the squeeze at that time and I'm skeptical it'll ever be high volume / high acuity.

I just rotated at NMCP a couple months ago and a surprising amount of civilian traumas came in. It was like every day was one or two more GSW from out in town. The month I was there saw like 4 civ GSW to head, and overall I saw more alpha's at NMCP than at the level 1 trauma center of my medical school. NMCP also got their 5(?) year, level 2 trauma center certification while I was there so it seems they may have made significant strides since you left.

 

[pgg]

That's really excellent news.

I know they'd been working on it for a long time, and a lot of people put a lot of effort into it. Glad to hear it's been successful.

 

[narcusprince]

That's really excellent news.

I know they'd been working on it for a long time, and a lot of people put a lot of effort into it. Glad to hear it's been successful.

I wonder what the call schedule looks like! Lol.

 

[pgg]

I wonder what the call schedule looks like! Lol.

I would guess no different for our dept - honestly the great majority of overnight cases we did weren't emergencies, so there was plenty of spare capacity in the system. I hope better cases are just displacing lousy cases at night.

We did an awful lot of 1 AM lap choles just so the night float surgery resident wouldn't go an entire block without operating. How many times did bored attendings drag the call residents up to OB to give the night float CRNA some nap time? 😉 I don't think you or I ever tortured them that way, but some did.

If they've got good stuff coming from a busier ER - so much the better for everyone! I remember ca 2009 as a resident, having to count elderly hip fractures as multisystem trauma to hit my graduation numbers.

 

[narcusprince]

In private practice we aren’t doing choles at night. Im happy they are growing and getting more volume. Plus their was a huge knife and gun club in Portsmouth. Very good move for nmcp.

 

[militaryPHYS]

I just rotated at NMCP a couple months ago and a surprising amount of civilian traumas came in. It was like every day was one or two more GSW from out in town. The month I was there saw like 4 civ GSW to head, and overall I saw more alpha's at NMCP than at the level 1 trauma center of my medical school. NMCP also got their 5(?) year, level 2 trauma center certification while I was there so it seems they may have made significant strides since you left.

This is awesome! Glad to hear this is happening at NMCP. How can I get this moving on the west coast? 😀

 

[pgg]

In private practice we aren’t doing choles at night. Im happy they are growing and getting more volume. Plus their was a huge knife and gun club in Portsmouth. Very good move for nmcp.

If I have a gripe about my PP job now it's that there are so many cases, that sometimes semi-urgent add-ons for one day slip to the next day, and then it's hard to put them off for another day. And so we find ourselves doing toe amputations at 10 PM.

Not a lot of general surgery garbage at night, because they have a trauma/acute care surgery OR set aside for them every day to take the non-emergent things that came in overnight.

But the podiatry and cysto/stent stuff frequently goes late.