Navy HPSP

[PITT52]

Been working with a recruiter for the past few months on applying for the Navy HPSP. My application is complete but I am still waiting for a medical waiver for shoulder surgeries. Just curious if any one has heard anything from recruiters about the remaining scholarships available. Starting to get nervous because my recruiter says it could take up to 6 weeks or longer. Any info about this year or even previous years trends to compare would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

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[PITT52]

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[SurgDoc95]

Been working with a recruiter for the past few months on applying for the Navy HPSP. My application is complete but I am still waiting for a medical waiver for shoulder surgeries. Just curious if any one has heard anything from recruiters about the remaining scholarships available. Starting to get nervous because my recruiter says it could take up to 6 weeks or longer. Any info about this year or even previous years trends to compare would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Have you heard back since you originally posted?? I'm somewhat in a similar position, have my MEPS coming up and have had two scope shoulder surgeries, but tried to be proactive and went to an orthopedic surgeon who did imaging and wrote a letter clearing me for service. Think I'll still need to get the waiver??

 

[PITT52]

Have you heard back since you originally posted?? I'm somewhat in a similar position, have my MEPS coming up and have had two scope shoulder surgeries, but tried to be proactive and went to an orthopedic surgeon who did imaging and wrote a letter clearing me for service. Think I'll still need to get the waiver??

I sent in all of medical records for my shoulder surgeries and the navy docs sent it back and said that I need to get a current evaluation. My next step was basically doing what you did with getting a letter clearing me for all activities. I sent in that letter and still waiting to get back my waiver (been three weeks already). I would talk to your recruiter because if you disclose you had surgery at meps without a military waiver you will get DQ and you will have to get the waiver. That can take up to 6 weeks to get. If you have noticeable surgical scars they will see it at meps. Best advice is to talk to your recruiter and see what he says. The recruiter may recommend you to deny everything and basically lie which isn't always the best idea. Had a recruiter try to get me to do that a few years back. Best of luck

 

[SurgDoc95]

I sent in all of medical records for my shoulder surgeries and the navy docs sent it back and said that I need to get a current evaluation. My next step was basically doing what you did with getting a letter clearing me for all activities. I sent in that letter and still waiting to get back my waiver (been three weeks already). I would talk to your recruiter because if you disclose you had surgery at meps without a military waiver you will get DQ and you will have to get the waiver. That can take up to 6 weeks to get. If you have noticeable surgical scars they will see it at meps. Best advice is to talk to your recruiter and see what he says. The recruiter may recommend you to deny everything and basically lie which isn't always the best idea. Had a recruiter try to get me to do that a few years back. Best of luck

You don't think an evaluation done 10 days prior to my MEPS appointment would be sufficient to bypass having to get a waiver since it is a very current evaluation by a surgeon?

 

[PITT52]

You don't think an evaluation done 10 days prior to my MEPS appointment would be sufficient to bypass having to get a waiver since it is a very current evaluation by a surgeon?

No I don't think it will... I had to send in all of the surgical notes, pre op visits, post op visits, PT Notes and they still did not approve me for a waiver. I had to get a separate release and send it back to them to review for a waiver. The reason I don't think it will work is because if it would, why would they make me send it back in instead of just taking that to MEPS? They need to review your entire file in order to eliminate the chance of any liability you would cause for them. They are going to want to see exactly what you had done to your shoulders

 

[SurgDoc95]

No I don't think it will... I had to send in all of the surgical notes, pre op visits, post op visits, PT Notes and they still did not approve me for a waiver. I had to get a separate release and send it back to them to review for a waiver. The reason I don't think it will work is because if it would, why would they make me send it back in instead of just taking that to MEPS? They need to review your entire file in order to eliminate the chance of any liability you would cause for them. They are going to want to see exactly what you had done to your shoulders

So did they have you send in for a waiver before you went to MEPS or did you go through the process only for them to DQ you and make you request a waiver?

 

[PITT52]

So did they have you send in for a waiver before you went to MEPS or did you go through the process only for them to DQ you and make you request a waiver?

I was straight up with them from the start. When I filled out that sheet with like 200 yes/no questions I checked yes for surgery and explained both of mine. From that point I started the waiver process and cant go to meps until I get that. Just talk to your recruiter and see what he has to say. Also make sure you didn't check the box saying no surgery history and then try to give them a release for surgeries. Wouldn't look too good haha

 

[SurgDoc95]

I was straight up with them from the start. When I filled out that sheet with like 200 yes/no questions I checked yes for surgery and explained both of mine. From that point I started the waiver process and cant go to meps until I get that. Just talk to your recruiter and see what he has to say. Also make sure you didn't check the box saying no surgery history and then try to give them a release for surgeries. Wouldn't look too good haha

Haha definitely was honest on my app! My recruiter sent my medical records on my shoulder along with that letter from the surgeon. We're supposed to get a response back on the med read tomorrow or Tuesday so I may be in the hurry up and wait position you're in for a waiver come end of the week

 

[PITT52]

Haha definitely was honest on my app! My recruiter sent my medical records on my shoulder along with that letter from the surgeon. We're supposed to get a response back on the med read tomorrow or Tuesday so I may be in the hurry up and wait position you're in for a waiver come end of the week

I hope everything works out for you because I've been waiting since December for my waiver. But the nice thing is you have the release the first go around so you should be better off than me. Your recruiter ever say anything about the number of scholarships they have left or when they generally run out?

 

[SurgDoc95]

I hope everything works out for you because I've been waiting since December for my waiver. But the nice thing is you have the release the first go around so you should be better off than me. Your recruiter ever say anything about the number of scholarships they have left or when they generally run out?

Yeah he said theres about 280 people projected to apply for the 250 spots (army) and they've given out a decent amount of them so far, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I am wondering if I should reach out to the Navy and apply HPSP for them as well since I already have everything together for an application. I don't really want to do Navy, but I also don't want to get left without being selected for the scholarship.

 

[PITT52]

Yeah he said theres about 280 people projected to apply for the 250 spots (army) and they've given out a decent amount of them so far, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I am wondering if I should reach out to the Navy and apply HPSP for them as well since I already have everything together for an application. I don't really want to do Navy, but I also don't want to get left without being selected for the scholarship.

Army generally has the most scholarships to give because they have the largest budget. Also have to think that there are people that did exactly what you just said about applying to all the branches. People get awarded scholarships to each branch and have to choose one, so that 280 might be a little inflated. People also turn down the scholarships for what ever reason last second or don't get accepted to a school. You should be good for the army and if not you can request to immediately be entered in for next year's cycle and apply for the 3 year scholarship.

 

[SurgDoc95]

Army generally has the most scholarships to give because they have the largest budget. Also have to think that there are people that did exactly what you just said about applying to all the branches. People get awarded scholarships to each branch and have to choose one, so that 280 might be a little inflated. People also turn down the scholarships for what ever reason last second or don't get accepted to a school. You should be good for the army and if not you can request to immediately be entered in for next year's cycle and apply for the 3 year scholarship.

Assuming I can get a waiver before the April application selection board my recruiter thinks I should be in good shape for this year so fingers crossed! How many scholarships does the navy have?

 

[PITT52]

Assuming I can get a waiver before the April application selection board my recruiter thinks I should be in good shape for this year so fingers crossed! How many scholarships does the navy have?

That's exactly what my recruiter told me with the april selection board but he never gave me an exact number or anything. I actually just got transferred to another recruiter today because my previous one is switching stations. Hoping that doesn't slow up the process even more. The more I read about the HPSP the more Im okay with the 3 year scholarship though. With the high chances of getting a year internship and GMO tour on top of your commitment of 8 years, a 3 year scholarship would allow me to decrease my commitment and still be able to do some good.

 

[SurgDoc95]

That's exactly what my recruiter told me with the april selection board but he never gave me an exact number or anything. I actually just got transferred to another recruiter today because my previous one is switching stations. Hoping that doesn't slow up the process even more. The more I read about the HPSP the more Im okay with the 3 year scholarship though. With the high chances of getting a year internship and GMO tour on top of your commitment of 8 years, a 3 year scholarship would allow me to decrease my commitment and still be able to do some good.

What are the benefits of doing a 3 instead of a 4 year scholarship? Sorry if I sound somewhat ignorant haha

 

[PITT52]

What are the benefits of doing a 3 instead of a 4 year scholarship? Sorry if I sound somewhat ignorant haha

they pay for 3 years instead of 4 years but you get no signing bonus. The required amount of time you serve decreases from 8 years to 6 years. Basically you get less money but you owe them less years

 

[SurgDoc95]

they pay for 3 years instead of 4 years but you get no signing bonus. The required amount of time you serve decreases from 8 years to 6 years. Basically you get less money but you owe them less years

Are you including residency into the 8/6 years of commitment or is that 3/4 active plus 3/4 more of reserves?

 

[PITT52]

Are you including residency into the 8/6 years of commitment or is that 3/4 active plus 3/4 more of reserves?

I was including residency. From my understanding your residency and internship takes up the reserve portion of your contract usually and then once you are certified after residency you owe the number of years your scholarship was. Im not extremely knowledgeable on this subject but there are other forums on SDN with a ton of info. Keep in mind each specialty may or may not be competitive which can require you to do a GMO tour which can be up to 2-3 years an those don't count towards your commitment time.

 

[SurgDoc95]

I was including residency. From my understanding your residency and internship takes up the reserve portion of your contract usually and then once you are certified after residency you owe the number of years your scholarship was. Im not extremely knowledgeable on this subject but there are other forums on SDN with a ton of info. Keep in mind each specialty may or may not be competitive which can require you to do a GMO tour which can be up to 2-3 years an those don't count towards your commitment time.

I know that you don't owe an extra year for your first year (internship) if you do a residency longer than 4 years. So general surgery being 5 years total would still only require you to do a 4 year stint on active duty which is nice. I do think you're on ready reserves for a period of time post active duty since residency is considered active duty time.

 

[colbgw02]

What are the benefits of doing a 3 instead of a 4 year scholarship? Sorry if I sound somewhat ignorant haha

If you end up in a specialty that requires either 3 or 4 years of post-graduate training (total), then you will owe three years after residency. If you choose a specialty that is 5 or 6 years, then your GME obligation will be longer than your HPSP commitment. This essentially negates the benefit of the three-year scholarship, as you'll end up serving as long as a 4-year scholarship recipient and you get to have the student loan payments from your non-scholarship year.

The 8-year clock will start when you recommission into the medical corps. If you fulfill your active duty obligation before the 8 years is finished, then you are required to enter a reserve component. Most people will choose the individual ready reserve, unless they are planning going for a reserve retirement. Keep in mind that completely resigning your commission once the 8-year commitment is complete is an assertive act, meaning that an officer in the IRR isn't going to automatically get discharged at the 8 year + 1 day mark. I am reminded of a former colleague of mine, a USMA graduate, who had a classmate who unwittingly neglected to resign from IRR. He was recalled and sent to Iraq, where he was killed.

 

[SurgDoc95]

If you end up in a specialty that requires either 3 or 4 years of post-graduate training (total), then you will owe three years after residency. If you choose a specialty that is 5 or 6 years, then your GME obligation will be longer than your HPSP commitment. This essentially negates the benefit of the three-year scholarship, as you'll end up serving as long as a 4-year scholarship recipient and you get to have the student loan payments from your non-scholarship year.

The 8-year clock will start when you recommission into the medical corps. If you fulfill your active duty obligation before the 8 years is finished, then you are required to enter a reserve component. Most people will choose the individual ready reserve, unless they are planning going for a reserve retirement. Keep in mind that completely resigning your commission once the 8-year commitment is complete is an assertive act, meaning that an officer in the IRR isn't going to automatically get discharged at the 8 year + 1 day mark. I am reminded of a former colleague of mine, a USMA graduate, who had a classmate who unwittingly neglected to resign from IRR. He was recalled and sent to Iraq, where he was killed.

Definitely something to make me stay on top of things when I get to that point. Thanks for the reply. Are you by chance a current or former HPSP student?

 

[colbgw02]

Definitely something to make me stay on top of things when I get to that point. Thanks for the reply. Are you by chance a current or former HPSP student?

I'm a former Army physician, whose obligation and commission came from ROTC. I declined HPSP when 21-year old me realized that accepting it would have committed me to the Army until at least the age of 37. As things turned out, 18-year old me made a commitment that wasn't fulfilled until I was 35, but c'est la vie.

 

[WernickeDO]

I know that you don't owe an extra year for your first year (internship) if you do a residency longer than 4 years. So general surgery being 5 years total would still only require you to do a 4 year stint on active duty which is nice. I do think you're on ready reserves for a period of time post active duty since residency is considered active duty time.

General surgery in the military is 6 years due to a mandatory research year. That will earn you 5 years AD repay time.

 

[SurgDoc95]

General surgery in the military is 6 years due to a mandatory research year. That will earn you 5 years AD repay time.

I didn't know about the mandatory research year. What kind of research requirement is it?

 

[WernickeDO]

I didn't know about the mandatory research year. What kind of research requirement is it?

There's not really a requirement per se; I think the goal is at least a poster. People usually either pick up projects from senior residents or staff, some do some original work. If you can get a publication all the better.

 

[Armyhealth]

General surgery in the military is 6 years due to a mandatory research year. That will earn you 5 years AD repay time.

Never heard of that, my last job I worked a lot with the general surgery program at Madigan and no one every mentioned anything like that. Is that a Navy thing?

 

[WernickeDO]

Never heard of that, my last job I worked a lot with the general surgery program at Madigan and no one every mentioned anything like that. Is that a Navy thing?

No, it's an Army thing, assume it's the same across all branches. The "research residents" are largely removed from the day to day operations of running the service so they just didn't appear on your radar. The research year pushes your obligation to 5 years AD, and after 6 in the reserves brings you to 11 total before you can get out. Many opt to go to fellowship and extend, so they end up retiring after 20. Although, some hate being in the military so much that they get out after 16+ years in. To each their own.

 

[Armyhealth]

No, it's an Army thing, assume it's the same across all branches. The "research residents" are largely removed from the day to day operations of running the service so they just didn't appear on your radar. The research year pushes your obligation to 5 years AD, and after 6 in the reserves brings you to 11 total before you can get out. Many opt to go to fellowship and extend, so they end up retiring after 20. Although, some hate being in the military so much that they get out after 16+ years in. To each their own.

Very interesting, these are the things that make recruiters look like they are lying.....we never get told about these kind of programs.....So when the option comes up the resident has to have someone to blame and the first thing that comes to mind is "the recruiter never told me that". Thanks for the insight Wernicke! Going to do some more hunting on this.

 

[WernickeDO]

Very interesting, these are the things that make recruiters look like they are lying.....we never get told about these kind of programs.....So when the option comes up the resident has to have someone to blame and the first thing that comes to mind is "the recruiter never told me that". Thanks for the insight Wernicke! Going to do some more hunting on this.

Something like this goes beyond the expected insight of a recruiter and it falls upon the due diligence of the student to uncover this sort of information.

FWIW, most military docs (myself included) don't feel like recruiters are liars, but rather they receive incomplete information and are told to push certain data that the GME office tells them to. This harkens back to the earlier discussion about match numbers and how they are incomplete and partially misleading. We acknowledge that any misinformation or inaccuracy relayed by a recruiter is out of ignorance (sorry to use that word) rather than deceit. But all in all, it leads to anger and mistrust because the very command teams that are responsible for living the Army values of LDRSHIP are not, and our careers are caught in the crossfire. How can you claim loyalty or integrity when you withhold data or are not transparent about GMO selection?

 

[PITT52]

Haha definitely was honest on my app! My recruiter sent my medical records on my shoulder along with that letter from the surgeon. We're supposed to get a response back on the med read tomorrow or Tuesday so I may be in the hurry up and wait position you're in for a waiver come end of the week

Just letting you know I got my waiver approved today for both surgeries.

 

[SurgDoc95]

Just letting you know I got my waiver approved today for both surgeries.

Awesome congrats! My shoulder did get me DQd, but am going to do the MEPS physical this week and submit up for the waiver hopefully by Friday. Let me know when you get selected for the program!

 

[pgg]

Very interesting, these are the things that make recruiters look like they are lying.....we never get told about these kind of programs.....

It's a hard spot to be put in.

Medical education is very complicated and there are issues and subtleties with training and practice that don't seem important to outsiders. It's the classic "don't know what you don't know" problem.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Never heard of that, my last job I worked a lot with the general surgery program at Madigan and no one every mentioned anything like that. Is that a Navy thing?

Ref A for Madigan. http://www.mamc.amedd.army.mil/education/graduate-medical-education/residencies/general-surgery.aspx

 

[Armyhealth]

Something like this goes beyond the expected insight of a recruiter and it falls upon the due diligence of the student to uncover this sort of information.

FWIW, most military docs (myself included) don't feel like recruiters are liars, but rather they receive incomplete information and are told to push certain data that the GME office tells them to. This harkens back to the earlier discussion about match numbers and how they are incomplete and partially misleading. We acknowledge that any misinformation or inaccuracy relayed by a recruiter is out of ignorance (sorry to use that word) rather than deceit. But all in all, it leads to anger and mistrust because the very command teams that are responsible for living the Army values of LDRSHIP are not, and our careers are caught in the crossfire. How can you claim loyalty or integrity when you withhold data or are not transparent about GMO selection?

Ha, ignorance is the right word. At least I know this and try to do my own research and get as much real info as I can from those in the profession.

 

[Armyhealth]

Ref A for Madigan. http://www.mamc.amedd.army.mil/education/graduate-medical-education/residencies/general-surgery.aspx

There it is in black and white. Thanks!

 

[SurgDoc95]

Just letting you know I got my waiver approved today for both surgeries.

Got my waiver approved today! Idk how but mine only took a week

 

[Armyhealth]

Got my waiver approved today! Idk how but mine only took a week

Congrats! That was a fast waiver!

 

[SurgDoc95]

Congrats! That was a fast waiver!

Sure was! Recruiter called and told me and I was pretty surprised it had come that quickly, but not going to complain lol