NFL folded like a wet noodle over the protests

Discussion in 'Anesthesiology' started by Precedexed Out, Oct 1, 2017.

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  1. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    I noticed the NFL has changed their tune dramatically this week compared to last. I think the NFL is financially realizing the consequences of allowing the players to insert politics into a formerly apolitical sport. Most Americans agree with Trump about the ridiculousness of these national anthem protests and now most players are standing with their hand over heart. The Ravens decided to take a knee before the national anthem and were booed, and rightly so. The Steelers took a dramatic turn, last week most cowards stayed in the locker room during the national anthem except one player who later apologized for coming out. This week they stood on the sideline. The fans clearly, including me, don't have any desire to watch the foolish preanthem protests. The damage has been done and this stupidity by the players, owners, and Goodell is going to be felt for years. I've heard many of my family and friends say, "Saturday is football day now."

    On a side note, ever notice how the NFL states things similar to needing to allow players to express themselves? Since when? The NFL has always had fines and/or penalties for expressing oneself. No touchdown dances, no writing on socks, and Dallas wasn't allowed to honor the police with a small decal on their helmet. The NFL rules clearly state the players must be on the field and stand during the anthem, but this on rule the NFL has decided to ignore. The NFL took a political stance and it has bit them in the ass. Fans have no desire to watch millionaires complain about inequality or whatever they are protesting, most of the players probably aren't really sure.
     
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  3. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

    During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

    Does the NFL Require Players to Stand for the National Anthem?
     
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  4. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    Why was the NFL silent on this rules violation?
     
  5. sleepallday

    sleepallday ASA Member 7+ Year Member

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    Ok, ill bite.

    Decreasing NFL viewership has little to do with the anthem protests. They've been decreasing for a couple years now. But as usual trump is inserting himself in issues that one would feel the president should be to busy to worry about. And now he would like to take credit for the decreasing viewers. With all the data and lawsuits on head injuries coming out, that is what will cause the collapse of the NFL. High schools across the country are already having a hard time fielding teams because kids are not playing the sport anymore.

    Its funny though. The same people that cry about freedom of speech and political correctness are the same people that cry about a protest they don't agree with.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2017
  6. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? SDN Moderator 10+ Year Member

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    10 years ago I paid for Sunday Ticket on DirecTV. I haven't watched single NFL game this year. I watched a few last year. I've just sort of lost interest in American football. Nothing at all to do with these national anthem protests.

    I remember watching the Super Bowl in 2013, sitting in the conference room of the NATO Role 3 trauma center in Kandahar, Afghanistan. Kaepernick and the 49ers lost to the Ravens. I grew up (mostly) in the SF Bay Area, have been a 49er fan since the Montana days. Even kept watching during the dark days of the 2000s when they sucked even more than they have the last few years.

    Kaepernick isn't the enemy. I used to wish he was a better quarterback.

    If there's anything non-football that turns me off about the NFL, it's their tolerance for violent criminal players. Wife beaters, girlfriend beaters, Ray ****ing Lewis, it never ends. Hell, OJ Simpson just got out on parole today and those ratings whores at the NFL would probably give him a job in the booth if he asked for it. (The guy owes $140 million but his $25,000/month NFL pension is untouchable, so I suppose he won't go looking for a job.)

    And you guys are getting all angsty because some players are silently protesting violence and racism?

    What the actual **** is wrong with you?
     
  7. acidbase1

    acidbase1 5+ Year Member

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    I for one am sick of this leftist liberal race baiting. It's ruining the country. The NFL did a piss poor job deflecting this bs. As a result, I cancelled my NFL red zone and NFL network subscription and haven't looked back. If the NBA pull the same crap I'll boycott them too
     
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  8. GravelRider

    GravelRider SDN Lifetime Donor Lifetime Donor Gold Donor 2+ Year Member

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    Who cares? Is this an important issue worthy of discussion or is this just something for Trump to twitter about to rile up his followers? There are many other issues with the NFL that are worthy of discussion (most mentioned in the posts above mine), but players deciding to kneel during the anthem in a form of peaceful protest is not one of them. Let's instead talk about the incredible amount of taxpayer money that is spent building NFL stadiums.

    What's with the sudden reverence for the flag anyway? What about the proud displays of the Confederate flag? If the Confederate flag is not the ultimate sign of disrespect to the American flag then I don't what is.
     
  9. acidbase1

    acidbase1 5+ Year Member

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    If you condone kneeling for the national anthem then you aren't worth a damn. Sorry, just how I feel. This is coming from someone who has had many family members fight and die for this country
     
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  10. Psych_hopeful

    Psych_hopeful

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    And that's fine to feel that way. It's just as much the player's right to kneel during the national anthem as it is for people to tune off the NFL. Free speech is free speech and as long as there is no intent of violence voiced or communicated, people should be able to do what they want.

    This country was built on the 1st amendment after all.
     
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  11. algosdoc

    algosdoc algosdoc 10+ Year Member

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    No more NFL, ever. An entire league that de facto sanctioned a political protest during a time I tuned in for entertainment is not worth my support in any way, nor my support of their sponsors. Regardless of Trump's antics, the league in my opinion, for me alone, was completely wrong, and has lost control of its sensibilities, allowing their players to ram their views down my throat. Never again.
     
  12. acidbase1

    acidbase1 5+ Year Member

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    See... this is complete BS. You have your first amendment right to do whatever it is you want OFF THE JOB. If I go tell my CEO to eat shhhht, then I can, and I won't get arrested. However, I may not have a job the following week. These overpaid millionaire babies need to protest on their own time off the job.

    Just bc you exercise your first amendment right doesn't mean there aren't consequences. There is a time and place for everything
     
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  13. Psych_hopeful

    Psych_hopeful

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    Okay, but their bosses haven't made any rules or regulations about kneeling with the rulebook stating that their MIGHT be consequences. But that is at the bosses discretion. You are NOT the CEO of these players. If they wish to protest by kneeling because they feel they need to voice their opposition to tyrannical rule, then that's fine. It is YOUR right to not watch the NFL if you don't agree with them. I'm sorry, but to say players have to protest a "certain way" or "off the job" is pretty tyrannical in my book.
     
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  14. nimbus

    nimbus Member 10+ Year Member

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    I agree. But because of CTE. The players have the stage. They can use it how they want. They are exercising their right to peaceful protest. As you say you can stop watching. I grew bored and tired of football past age 15-16 anyway.
     
  15. Psych_hopeful

    Psych_hopeful

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    I don't watch the NFL because I would rather watch anime or minutephysics videos. But thats just me. Lel.
     
  16. GA8314

    GA8314 Regaining my sanity 2+ Year Member

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    Americans have the right to the First Amendment. As Precedex has pointed out, apparently, there were "workplace" rules being broken and perhaps this was a poor decision of the NFL to support it in the first place. Can't really do much to the players (I guess) when they decide not to stand.

    But, when you make the choice to politicize a football game (or make political a not insignificant portion of it such as the national anthem), then you are gambling. They gambled, it seems, and now, it also seems, they will pay a financial price for it. Trump saw this as a chance to stoke the flames which have clearly already existed as pertains to a perception of this issue. You can say a lot about the guy, but he can read the public for sure.

    Personally, I defend free speech and freedom of expression, but there's no guarantee when it comes to a commercial venture that public opinion/your customer base won't punish you should you choose the wrong venue for expressing your views/passions.....

    I don't even watch the Superbowl, and haven't since the last time I went to a Superbowl party which was quite a while back. My personal feeling is that we focus too much on this nonsense at the expense of more important things. But, if it relaxes you and you get something out of it, the more power to you.
     
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  17. nimbus

    nimbus Member 10+ Year Member

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    I just watch TEE, regional and Paul Marik videos;)
     
  18. sidefx

    sidefx 5+ Year Member

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    It's funny that the people who cry that freedom of speech does not mean freedom from social consequences when any conservative says something non-PC and demand they be fired from their job immediately, are the same people who claim it would be a violation of the players' rights to reprimand them in any way for engaging in political protests during the anthem and that we have no business trying to censor their free speech.
     
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  19. sidefx

    sidefx 5+ Year Member

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    Free speech does not extend into the private workplace and never has.
     
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  20. Psych_hopeful

    Psych_hopeful

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    It does to the point of the CEO's discretion. It's not your call to make as to what that discretion is.
     
  21. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    Yes, other factors are big contributors. Anthem protests having "little" to do with viewership is simply not true. Trump's comments took a few minutes to make. It is not like he's spending days over only this problem, despite the media portraying him as being preoccupied with this. The real impact of the NFL standing behind the anthem protests will take some time to accurately assess and still has to be determined based on the continued actions. As I type this, Seattle has players sitting on the bench, shameful. I suspect these protests will gradually disappear because money talks. I also suspect the NFL has severely damaged its product and former NFL fans aren't likely to return anytime soon.
     
  22. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    I hope the bolded wasn't direct at me or any SDN user.

    Nobody is getting angsty. Last time I checked, most teams are protesting anthem for "justice and inequality." I heard this from the Seattle game. Justice and inequality for what or whom, seems most likely to be race baiting and an extension of the democratic party.
     
  23. Psych_hopeful

    Psych_hopeful

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    Whatever the case is: it is their right to protest. And it is the right of everyone watching to turn off the NFL. It seems relatively simple to me.
     
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  24. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    I have family members in the military and I know several police offers. Anthem and perianthem protests are disgusting. I feel exactly like you do. There are also many police officers that have fought and died in this country to maintain peace. The proportion of legitimate police brutality is minuscule and get the media magnifies and distorts the reality. The good police do greatly greatly greatly exceeds the negative.
     
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  25. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    Actually, it is not their right to do it while playing football. See the NFL rule I posted above.

    Good luck catching any of these players protesting outside of the anthem. Really shows how sincere they are about this issue, most of them aren't even knowledgeable about the facts. They're just kneeling because it is the cool thing to do.
     
  26. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    I was going to state this, but you did it first.
     
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  27. Psych_hopeful

    Psych_hopeful

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    That rulebook implies that it's at the owner's discretion. You are not the owner and therefore you cannot impose whatever rules you want upon them.

    ...And this over here:

    My problem with this is then "what is the right way to protest?" If people are marching on the street, they are considered thugs. If someone is kneeling, it's considered unpatriotic. Although I'm against SJWs, sometimes if someone speaks out, they might unfairly treated as an SJW. What is the right way to protest? Right now, if they kneel and do NOTHING else, they are considered "insincere".
     
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  28. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    How could the NFL not see the backlash coming? It is entirely predictable. The decline of the NFL will be attached to Doofus Goodell.

    The current situation seems unimaginable 5 years ago. The NFL can thank Kaepernick for this, he has cost the league dearly.
     
  29. Fluffhead87

    Fluffhead87 5+ Year Member

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    Where was your selective outrage in 2008 and earlier? Or even the day before Trump went on a tweet-storm?

    Pre-2009, prime time games had players stay in the locker rooms for the National Anthem. Sounds more disrespectful to me than kneeling. Also, the confederate flag (very fine people), oh you know a treasonous flag created during secession and civil war, sounds even more disrespectful than kneeling, but oh well.

    A short history of the national anthem, protests and the NFL
     
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  30. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    Teams don't enforce the NFL rules, the NFL does. It is not up to the teams to determine if the anthem protest rules are enforced.

    You don't have the right to protest on the street and block me from coming home to work or disrupt the traffic flow of an entire city. In St. Louis, the protesters where blocking roads that led to hospitals. Entirely unacceptable. Protest on your time and dime. And without destroying property.
     
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  31. rabbott1971

    rabbott1971

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    This thread belongs in the SPF forum in the Lounge, not in the anesthesiology page.
     
  32. Psych_hopeful

    Psych_hopeful

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    The guys are kneeling and that doesnt even take up that much time. And you aren't paying these athletes. You aren't the boss. In most cases, the protesters aren't blocking traffic. Why should all protesters then be considered "disruptive"?

    I'm sorry, but this perspective just seems like tyranny. You are just telling people to shut up and deal with it. When you aren't the boss of these guys. It's simple to me. If you don't like the NFL, turn it off.


    Ya some mod move this over.
     
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  33. nimbus

    nimbus Member 10+ Year Member

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    Obviously the players are the product and they have power. And many fans and members of the organization actually support the protesting players. What should the NFL do if the players kneel? Fire the team and cancel the game? Make empty threats to the players? They're exercising their constitutional rights and the NFL can't do anything about it. If they could they would.
     
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  34. GA8314

    GA8314 Regaining my sanity 2+ Year Member

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    These days the people losing their jobs for being doxed WITHOUT evidence of violence are on the right. For leftist thugs like Antifa, even when they actively participate and promote violence they have the unofficial support of their professors and the media (until only recently perhaps).

    Can we agree that we should make political affiliation/beliefs a protected class???
     
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  35. SaltyDog

    SaltyDog Keeping the Forces of Entropy at Bay 10+ Year Member

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    Wait, I've just been watching videos of Marik doing regional while drinking tea - no wonder I haven't been getting much out of them.
     
  36. RadOncDoc21

    RadOncDoc21 5+ Year Member

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  37. nimbus

    nimbus Member 10+ Year Member

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    That one is amazing. You need to tune in to the subplot where he squeezes lemon into his tea. It's subtle but it's there. Oscar contender for sure.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2017
  38. sleepallday

    sleepallday ASA Member 7+ Year Member

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    Well, clearly, it hasn't impacted you watching the games.
     
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  39. nolagas

    nolagas Member 10+ Year Member

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    I'm fine with the protesting. I watched very little NFL football before and won't increase or decrease as a result of the kneeling. I wondered about the end-game though. Police are likely to be harder on black people for many years to come, so when do you decide to just stand up? Next season? 2040? Never? And when do reporters just stop talking about it?
     
  40. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    My perspective of police behavior patterns are the opposite. I believe police are going to be less likely to engage in confrontation and this could have devastating effects on innocent people in some of the high crime areas. Most police officers are like the rest of us, have a family and just want to do their job, and want to go home largely unnoticed. Now, anytime there is a confrontation, they have the stress of knowing even if they do the right thing, it may be scrutinized to the highest degree and they may no longer be able to continue working as a police officer. The police officer that shot Michael Brown was guilty until proven otherwise, that isn't how it is supposed to be. The attack on law enforcement is the real tragedy. Finding good officers is only going to get more difficult as this profession is on the defensive almost always.
     
  41. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    Yea, lets move it somewhere that many users won't be able to view or contribute. Talk about suppressing speech.
     
  42. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    Again, you don't have the constitutional right to protest at work, so you are completely wrong there.

    The right answer is to not doing anything that involves taking away from respecting the military....aka national anthem. As far as what the NFL should do, not an easy answer and not my problem. They should have punished Kaepernick when this disrespect started, set the tone from the beginning. If they had done that, the NFL wouldn't be in the midst of this mess.
     
  43. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    Different standards for different political parties. Could you imagine if republicans smashed in the windows of planned parenthood during a protest? The media reaction would not be passive.
     
  44. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    Fair point, and I have actually had that thought myself today as well. To be completely honest, I have had football on my TV all day, but only paid attention to the pre-game events. I have no idea who won either of the first two games that were playing on my TV. I have no idea what the current score of the SNF game is, but I can hear Cris Collinsworth talking.

    Contrast this to a few years ago, I watched football almost all day on Sunday (actually watched, it wasn't just on my TV). I didn't miss games. Now, I don't really care if I need to run to the store or do something else on Sunday. Attitudes have changed towards the NFL, it just makes on wonder where the bottom is at. So yes, it has impacted me "watching" the games.

    Gone are the apolitical days of the NFL and the Manning vs Brady games. I miss those.
     
  45. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    Intentional division to distract from real issues while the country is being ran by those at the top on both sides of the political aisle.
     
  46. Psych_hopeful

    Psych_hopeful

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    Plenty of hot blooded people in the Sociopolitical Forum that are passionate from all sides of the political spectrum. And this thread is more relevant there than in Anesthesia -_-

    Is everything a conspiracy to suppress your speech? Dear God.
     
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  47. acidbase1

    acidbase1 5+ Year Member

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    Tyrannical rule??? Give me a fing break

    How about you're payed to play football, so play football and take in your millions
     
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  48. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    Why is the SPF have restricted access? I never said anything about conspiracy, but moving it there does suppress my ability to contribute.
     
  49. Psych_hopeful

    Psych_hopeful

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    I rest my case. "Shut up and play football for meh". This is tyrannical.

    You arent paying them anything. Their bosses are. So they dont have to listen to you.
     
  50. BeatriZZ

    BeatriZZ

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    The reason Kaepernick and others took a knee was to protest the well documented and research proven racial bias that is prevalent in local police departments toward black boys and men. Is it a coincidence that so few of the critics of those chosing to protest not black boys or men? They are not the victims of this racism so of course they do not condone this type of protest.
    These black men and boys are dying by the bullets of police officers. There is genuine fear of being killed unfairly because of the color of their skin and research has proven this is a valid fear. How can you expect them to not to exercise their right to protest when the stakes are so high?
    I bet half of the critics of these protesters couldn't even recite the national anthem if you asked them to
     
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  51. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    Are you delusional? Not paying them anything? Including the money stolen by the taxpayers to fund their stadiums, where do you think NFL revenue comes from? I know. I know. The fans.

    Yes, shut and play football in the government funded stadium. Protest elsewhere. They do not have the right to make political statements when they are being paid to work. Players usually get Monday off, spend that time protesting and/or doing something constructive towards the cause you pretend to care about.
     
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