Nursing School Vs Med School, no comparison.

[Critical Mass REACHED]

Dearest Critical,

What some nurse thinks about her value to the process has absolutely no meaning to me. If she/he can manage to be polite and helpful...they can go home and tell folks they are running the hospital for all I care. To me this is akin to making fun of a handicapped kid. Which I suppose is inappropriate for me to admit.

Wow coming from someone with a former nursing background, that statement you just made "asking me to make fun of handicapped kids" is pretty darn right dismissive of the nursing profession. I will defend nurses, what I won't tolerate are nurses who feel their education, training, etc is on par with physicians and should demand the same pay. It's offensive to me that a lot of NPs think this way.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Anastomoses]

Wow coming from someone with a former nursing background, that statement you just made "asking me to make fun of handicapped kids" is pretty darn right dismissive of the nursing profession. I will defend nurses, what I won't tolerate are nurses who feel their education, training, etc is on par with physicians and should demand the same pay. It's offensive to me that a lot of NPs think this way.

Their work is required and valuable to us all. What they think about this or that or their ideas on doctors means absolutely nothing to me beyond pragmatic considerations. It's just noise. If I overheard one say "you med students know nothing compared to us" I might smile graciously and ask for more help. And you're right, it's dismissive.

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

You can call this post what ever you like, the fact of the matter is the Affordable Health Care Act is coming. Govt is looking to cut cost, and MD's have targets on their backs. With NP's pushing these "outcome studies," funded by the ANA, we could come to an era when America try's this little experiment where physicians are no longer needed as much, seeing how NP's are equal according to them and their studies. I know from my experience going through nursing school that this statement is just FALSE.

This is a open forum for anyone to express their thought and opinions. If you don't like it, then scroll button easily gets you passed this thread.

I did not know of allnurses.com up until a month ago, and I must say the things on there are darn right offensive. With statements such as, IM doctors go into internal Med because they were at the bottom of the class, Anesthesiologist are useless and not needed, NPs are now claiming they should be allowed to call themselves Doctor because they got a PhD online. Just to name a few things I stumbled across among the 1000's of threads. The day when congress starts to send their family to see NP's, that will be the day I will agree we can be classified as "equal."

 

[Psai]

The internet is a place where anyone can say anything. I think you're conflating the opinion of a small minority of misguided individuals with the views of an entire field. The things that nursing leadership say do not impress me one bit and I believe that they're really overreaching when they continually try to increase their scope of practice. But it doesn't necessarily correlate with what the rank and file in the hospitals think.

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

The internet is a place where anyone can say anything. I think you're conflating the opinion of a small minority of misguided individuals with the views of an entire field. The things that nursing leadership say do not impress me one bit and I believe that they're really overreaching when they continually try to increase their scope of practice. But it doesn't necessarily correlate with what the rank and file in the hospitals think.

I see what your saying, but hospitals are becoming cooperate chains being bought up and sold along with private practices. Now with GOVT setting reimbursement rates at the minimums, hospitals will be looking to keep their profit margins up, and a likely source is the big bad rich doctors. At least that's how we are painted in the media.

With NPs requiring all programs be PhD level, who's going to stop them from confusing patients when they introduce themselves as Dr. X. The general population does not know what it takes to reach the level of physician, not to mention the 100,000K's it cost to train us. It's already happening. I am worried that savings will be justified by the media painting that image of rich doctors, and PTs will be misguided and content with the decision. That will be until **** hits the fan, and rate limiting step is reached where we can no longer turn the experiment around. The AMA seems to be taking back seat. Replacing MDs with NPs will not be the solution. Judging from the link I posted even nurses agree, more education equals more responsibility, greater knowledge, and greater pay. At least when it comes to LPN's vs RN's.

 

[Anastomoses]

For the love of god, Critical Mass...take 10 minutes out of your day and learn the difference between your and you're. It's embarrassing to see a doctor like that. Jeeez. Where's the attention to detail?

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

For the love of god, Critical Mass...take 10 minutes out of your day and learn the difference between your and you're. It's embarrassing to see a doctor like that. Jeeez. Where's the attention to detail?

When all thus fails, pull out the grammar argument. I'm typing from a tiny phone with big fingers, I didn't know I was submitting a manuscript for approval by the IRB. I'm sure if I looked hard enough I'll spot some of your grammar errors or spelling errors. Oh, I found one "to me this is askin to making fun of handicapped." No need to comment if it's not adding anything to the discussion.

 

[Anastomoses]

When all thus fails, pull out the grammar argument. I'm typing from a tiny phone with big fingers, I didn't know I was submitting a manuscript for approval by the IRB. I'm sure if I looked hard enough I'll spot some of your grammar errors or spelling errors. Oh, I found one "to me this is askin to making fun of handicapped." No need to comment if it's not adding anything to the discussion.

When all else fails? Nothing is failing because I'm not even arguing with you.

The grammar thing is a total aside...clean that up already. It's seriously embarrassing to see you still have the grammar of a nurse. Okay, that was a joke...but seriously.

Oh damn...did you seriously just add the letter "s" to akin and misquote me because you don't know what "akin" means?

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

When all else fails? Nothing is failing because I'm not even arguing with you.

The grammar thing is a total aside...clean that up already. It's seriously embarrassing to see you still have the grammar of a nurse. Okay, that was a joke...but seriously.

Oh damn...did you seriously just add the letter "s" to akin and misquote me because you don't know what "akin" means?

I'll give you that one haha, I saw it as askin, as opposed to akin. But seriously, this a forum, and I'm on a iPhone with sausage link for fingers. If autocorrect doesn't catch it, I will keep on moving.

 

[darkjedi]

jesus christ, reading sweetpoos posts is like reading a trolling masterpiece

that said, most of the posters on allnurses sound very reasonable

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

jesus christ, reading sweetpoos posts is like reading a trolling masterpiece

that said, most of the posters on allnurses sound very reasonable

I just clicked and they have a novel going on over there, it's up to 200 pages!? Or am I seeing the wrong numbers. I can't tell with all these pop ups. Yeah, I can't read all that tonight. I might have to read volume 2
In the morning.

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

jesus christ, reading sweetpoos posts is like reading a trolling masterpiece

that said, most of the posters on allnurses sound very reasonable

What really blew me away was that Allnurses.com isn't in support for NPs being seen as equals. This is according to the RN/BSN's who can see their training doesn't compare. But I like to see what happens to those with that mind set once they go into a program for NP's.

 

[touchpause13]

I just read through that entire nursing thread.

Well done.

 

[AmeliaDJ]

I just clicked and they have a novel going on over there, it's up to 200 pages!? Or am I seeing the wrong numbers. I can't tell with all these pop ups. Yeah, I can't read all that tonight. I might have to read volume 2
In the morning.

It's 200 posts

 

[sylvanthus]

Your attachment and made up thread are falling pretty short of proving your original point. Regarding what you posted above, what was said that was wrong? Also, regarding the link you posted, for some reason I read it (see username), and everyone posting seemed reasonable and rational, completely contrary to what you are suggesting and started this thread about. I know what you're trying to say, as I'm sure all of us have heard a nurse somewhere gripe about inequality compared to her/his physician counterpart, but your posts seem exceedingly petty. I'm also a bit annoyed with you because you're making me feel dirty for agreeing with Anasto so much (I say that with love, please don't call me ugly!), but it seems like she's spot on with this one.

What was wrong with the above quoted argument from a nurse was that somehow their nursing experience counted towards being a provider. Which it just plainly does not. I don't care if you worked 400 years as a nurse, you were not the ultimate decision maker at that time, and you were not a physician or DNP with ultimate responsibility.

It is akin to me listing my EMT/ED Tech hours as clinical hours toward being a physician which I would not do and is laughable.

 

[sobored]

What was wrong with the above quoted argument from a nurse was that somehow their nursing experience counted towards being a provider. Which it just plainly does not. I don't care if you worked 400 years as a nurse, you were not the ultimate decision maker at that time, and you were not a physician or DNP with ultimate responsibility.

It is akin to me listing my EMT/ED Tech hours as clinical hours toward being a physician which I would not do and is laughable.

Yeah sorry I still don't get what was so wrong about what he/she said. The main argument was that a NP who practiced as a nurse for 4-6 years prior to becoming an NP has more clinical experience than an entry level, newly minted MD. Seems like a reasonable argument. Not only that, but I don't think I read a single post in that thread where a nurse insisted or even came close to arguing that his/her training was equivalent to an MD, thereby defeating the whole point of this thread. Whatever, I'm over it.

 

[sylvanthus]

Clinical experience as an RN is not clinical experience as an MD/DO/DNP. Its akin to saying that the experience on a plane that flight attendants get should count as flight time.

 

[Raryn]

Yeah sorry I still don't get what was so wrong about what he/she said. The main argument was that a NP who practiced as a nurse for 4-6 years prior to becoming an NP has more clinical experience than an entry level, newly minted MD. Seems like a reasonable argument. Not only that, but I don't think I read a single post in that thread where a nurse insisted or even came close to arguing that his/her training was equivalent to an MD, thereby defeating the whole point of this thread. Whatever, I'm over it.

If we were comparing a newly minted NP who was a CCRN for 5 years prior to NP school and an intern on July 1 in the unit, I'd agree that the NP likely knows more of what to do on most of the patients because of their extensive time in that environment previous. Anyone who doubts that has never worked with some decent RNs who will save your butt if you listen to them.

The difference is this: That comparison applies in July. But come November or December, the intern is more capable of handling it more often than not. It's like that episode of scrubs halfway through season 1 where JD realizes that he no longer needs Carla's advice. That happens in real life too (Scrubs is definitely the most realistic medical show around).

 

[sobored]

If we were comparing a newly minted NP who was a CCRN for 5 years prior to NP school and an intern on July 1 in the unit, I'd agree that the NP likely knows more of what to do on most of the patients because of their extensive time in that environment previous. Anyone who doubts that has never worked with some decent RNs who will save your butt if you listen to them.

The difference is this: That comparison applies in July. But come November or December, the intern is more capable of handling it more often than not. It's like that episode of scrubs halfway through season 1 where JD realizes that he no longer needs Carla's advice. That happens in real life too (Scrubs is definitely the most realistic medical show around).

I agree with you completely, and never said anything to the contrary. The post I was referring to said entry level MD (which I took intern fresh out of med school - Julyish), so that's why I said what I said. It seems like the other resident disagrees with this, which I can't understand for the life of me.

 

[Jorts]

One of my friends girlfriend is an ICU nurse (been a nurse now for 2 years) and I was talking to her and here's a direct quote from her "all the residents are F***ing idiots. I have to keep my eyes on them to make sure they don't do anything stupid and kill my patients" I just stared at her and laughed. This really is how some nurses think and shes only been a nurse for a few years.

 

[BANGO]

.

 

[Anastomoses]

Good. I would like to have such a nurturing nurse around to baby me. I've only spent time with a few and I bring cake and cookies, make 2 minutes of small talk and they eat right out of your hands. I'm sure I'll run into some obnoxious thing, but make your life easier and stop fixating on their insecurities.

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

Clinical experience as an RN is not clinical experience as an MD/DO/DNP. Its akin to saying that the experience on a plane that flight attendants get should count as flight time.

I watch a lot of NBA games, I think I've managed over 2000 hrs of watching games. Maybe I should enter the draft this year. Just a thought with all my experience watching pros play, and taking jump shots in the backyard.

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

If we were comparing a newly minted NP who was a CCRN for 5 years prior to NP school and an intern on July 1 in the unit, I'd agree that the NP likely knows more of what to do on most of the patients because of their extensive time in that environment previous. Anyone who doubts that has never worked with some decent RNs who will save your butt if you listen to them.

The difference is this: That comparison applies in July. But come November or December, the intern is more capable of handling it more often than not. It's like that episode of scrubs halfway through season 1 where JD realizes that he no longer needs Carla's advice. That happens in real life too (Scrubs is definitely the most realistic medical show around).

With out a doubt, please give me the CCRN over the intern in July. Great episode !

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

I agree with you completely, and never said anything to the contrary. The post I was referring to said entry level MD (which I took intern fresh out of med school - Julyish), so that's why I said what I said. It seems like the other resident disagrees with this, which I can't understand for the life of me.

I'm not sure if by "other resident" you are referring to me, because I stated that I would take a well seasoned nurse over a intern fresh in July, probably back on the 2nd page of this thread. Not sure if there is confusion here. It's a long thread.

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

Yup..nurse friend (1.5 years out of nursing school) told me how she liked working at a teaching hospital because the interns are like little babies when they are there and she gets to take care of them and guide them on their learning process.

Anytime I go off site, or start on another rotation, first thing I do is try to make sure I introduce myself, and basically try to make sure they know I am not some a.hole. They can make life harder or easier as a resident. I rather have a nurse work with me as a team collaborative role, with them handling their end of their job, and physicians taking care of their end. Trust me, I always look confused like a lost puppy the first couple of days, and I'm glad to have them their to guide me through until I get into a rhythm.

I never denied their crucial role, especially in guiding freshly minted July interns. Because god only knows the attending is not going to hold my hand and show me where to find certain supplies, how their EMR works, etc. I like nurses, I don't like the ANA stance on NPs, especially the militant ones. I get along with almost all nurses. I've even gone as far as putting my pt (and theirs) on a bed pan "because I used to do it as a nurse", and know how hectic their day can be. I know some of my comments are harsh, but they are not directed at them, they are directed to the ones that view up us as equals (NP vs MD "not a freshly minted intern") invade their is some confusion.

 

[PreemieNrsTiffy]

Hey y'all,

Just visiting over here from the nursing forums. No fake profile here, no trolling, RN of 21 years, most of it in NICU (in case the preemieNrs is too subtle for some). Had a visit from your membership recently so I thought I'd visit over here too. Seems one of y'all thought you'd wander over there and try to fish out some "militant nurses association" types. Sadly the most this rabble-rouser could catch was some fact-checking, disagreement, and mild irritation. Kinda suspect your OP here may have been that individual; or someone closely genetically linked by their inability to format, use standard English grammar, and their montrously fattened fingers.

Dear Sweetpoo got pretty solidly reprimanded, respectfully for the most part I would add. Yes, the handicapped children managed to speak in complete sentences and responded with far more grace and style than he/she expected. I guess the main problem is that he/she was fishing for someone to debate the superiority of NPs versus MDs and no one showed up for that fight. I'm sure there are nurses out there that feel that way. Probably the ANA too, but as we know, we nurses have an appallingly low level of loyalty to our professional organizations. As for whether I think I'm "smarter" than doctors; well, I think I might score higher on an IQ test than some, but I would never say more educated or knowledgeable about human disease. Do I know more about environment of healing, family dynamics, patient education? Probably; and that's where 21+ years of experience does actually count.

And hey, I appreciate all y'all who questioned the judgement of trying to stir "feces" about one topic when you were fuming about another in someone else's playpen. As it was, we simpletons managed to stay pretty civilized. Not that we don't know how to be uncivilized. Just start another debate on Associate degree versus BSN discussion and the hair and nails will start flying.

Nice to meet some of you. I'm glad I finally got around to setting up this account.
Tiffy

 

[Jibby321]

Hey y'all,

Just visiting over here from the nursing forums. No fake profile here, no trolling, RN of 21 years, most of it in NICU (in case the preemieNrs is too subtle for some). Had a visit from your membership recently so I thought I'd visit over here too. Seems one of y'all thought you'd wander over there and try to fish out some "militant nurses association" types. Sadly the most this rabble-rouser could catch was some fact-checking, disagreement, and mild irritation. Kinda suspect your OP here may have been that individual; or someone closely genetically linked by their inability to format, use standard English grammar, and their montrously fattened fingers.

Dear Sweetpoo got pretty solidly reprimanded, respectfully for the most part I would add. Yes, the handicapped children managed to speak in complete sentences and responded with far more grace and style than he/she expected. I guess the main problem is that he/she was fishing for someone to debate the superiority of NPs versus MDs and no one showed up for that fight. I'm sure there are nurses out there that feel that way. Probably the ANA too, but as we know, we nurses have an appallingly low level of loyalty to our professional organizations. As for whether I think I'm "smarter" than doctors; well, I think I might score higher on an IQ test than some, but I would never say more educated or knowledgeable about human disease. Do I know more about environment of healing, family dynamics, patient education? Probably; and that's where 21+ years of experience does actually count.

And hey, I appreciate all y'all who questioned the judgement of trying to stir "feces" about one topic when you were fuming about another in someone else's playpen. As it was, we simpletons managed to stay pretty civilized. Not that we don't know how to be uncivilized. Just start another debate on Associate degree versus BSN discussion and the hair and nails will start flying.

Nice to meet some of you. I'm glad I finally got around to setting up this account.
Tiffy

What's your opinion on that? I go to school with someone who has been a RN for 10 years and she says BSN is a waste of money and time.

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

Here you go, perfect example. This is how a lot of you guys think.

 

[touchpause13]

Dat attitude

 

[fancymylotus]

whomever posted on nurses-r-us somehow managed to link their posts or themselves back to this forum?! Whyy

 

[touchpause13]

whomever posted on nurses-r-us somehow managed to link their posts or themselves back to this forum?! Whyy

Right? Poor mods...

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

A quote from his little allnurses thread:

"You guys realize you are being playd by an RN turned MD from another online forum, right? This individual started a thread ******* all over nursing and nursing education on that other forum and then made this thread to demonstrate how incompetent, stupid nurses are, etc. Big discussion about it happening on a certain website for 'doctor students' in a certain section for 'current students of medicine'... I'd link directly to the thread, but I don't believe that is allowed."

Yeah they figured out what you were doing (who knows how, somebody must have an account here already). Not cool bro. I'll expect this thread to be shut down rather quickly.

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

What's your opinion on that? I go to school with someone who has been a RN for 10 years and she says BSN is a waste of money and time.

There is no difference. Other than some research courses and some fluff, and 40,000 dollars more in debt. But, here is another great thread on allnurses.com http://allnurses.com/registered-nurses-diploma/difference-between-associates-854820.html <------even your peers agree.

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

A quote from his little allnurses thread:

"You guys realize you are being playd by an RN turned MD from another online forum, right? This individual started a thread ******* all over nursing and nursing education on that other forum and then made this thread to demonstrate how incompetent, stupid nurses are, etc. Big discussion about it happening on a certain website for 'doctor students' in a certain section for 'current students of medicine'... I'd link directly to the thread, but I don't believe that is allowed."

Yeah they figured out what you were doing (who knows how, somebody must have an account here already). Not cool bro. I'll expect this thread to be shut down rather quickly.

http://allnurses.com/nurse-colleague-patient/nursing-na-lpn-564049.html

Well here is another thread on how RN's take offense on being insulted by being compared to LPNs, you can't make it up. The message is clear, RNs don't appreciate having their qualifications degraded.

As stated on the OP, we as physicians also despise having our qualifications degraded. I hope some nurses realize this when they are called "equals" to LPNs.

 

[PreemieNrsTiffy]

What's your opinion on that? I go to school with someone who has been a RN for 10 years and she says BSN is a waste of money and time.

I went back for my BSN after nearly 20 years of RN practice. I thought it would be a complete and utter waste of time and money (thankfully had some decent tuition reimbursement). By and large I was very impressed with the things I learned, and I learned so much. There were some parts I didn't so much enjoy but mostly good stuff. Wound up liking it so much I decided to go back for MSN. Before that was all said and done I found myself applying for a BSN to PhD program. We'll see how that goes.

I always thought ADN made no sense because of this; almost no one gets through in 2 years. The pre-reqs alone usually take 1-2 semesters, add 2 years to that, you've got 3 years, for an Associates. I had 3 solid (full-time, every summer semester included) years & 90 credits into an Associates. How does that make sense? But I didn't have the resources or confidence to move 100 miles away to the closest BSN program. Also, I never "got it" regarding what nursing is. . . Professors may have tried to teach this (theory) but so much got thrown at us if it was presented I didn't get it and I'm no dummy. I now really understand the difference between the nursing model of care and the medical model of care. I'm not disrespecting the medical model! It's just a different approach and prioritization system.

Also, I don't believe nursing can gain respect in the interdisciplinary team in planning patient care if everyone else there are minimally bachelor to graduate-level trained professions. I believe nursing deserves a place at that table and we need to earn respect by demanding BSN as minimum entry level.

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

I went back for my BSN after nearly 20 years of RN practice. I thought it would be a complete and utter waste of time and money (thankfully had some decent tuition reimbursement). By and large I was very impressed with the things I learned, and I learned so much. There were some parts I didn't so much enjoy but mostly good stuff. Wound up liking it so much I decided to go back for MSN. Before that was all said and done I found myself applying for a BSN to PhD program. We'll see how that goes.

I always thought ADN made no sense because of this; almost no one gets through in 2 years. The pre-reqs alone usually take 1-2 semesters, add 2 years to that, you've got 3 years, for an Associates. I had 3 solid (full-time, every summer semester included) years & 90 credits into an Associates. How does that make sense? But I didn't have the resources or confidence to move 100 miles away to the closest BSN program. Also, I never "got it" regarding what nursing is. . . Professors may have tried to teach this (theory) but so much got thrown at us if it was presented I didn't get it and I'm no dummy. I now really understand the difference between the nursing model of care and the medical model of care. I'm not disrespecting the medical model! It's just a different approach and prioritization system.

Also, I don't believe nursing can gain respect in the interdisciplinary team in planning patient care if everyone else there are minimally bachelor to graduate-level trained professions. I believe nursing deserves a place at that table and we need to earn respect by demanding BSN as minimum entry level.

See, I like you! Why can't some of your friends be like this. But I agree, make Nursing complete BSN only. I'm not against higher education, I'm just offended how some disregard it as not making a difference. Which it does.

 

[PreemieNrsTiffy]

View attachment 178777 Here you go, perfect example. This is how a lot of you guys think.

Yes, there are some annoyed and venting people out there. Guess what, happy people don't usually post on public boards about how happy they are, not usually. In my current experience, our physician group is an incredibly skilled group. All are neonatologists which tell you they went beyond the usual internship/residency. A couple are MD/PhDs. Are they jerks off and on? You bet. As we all are. Way better than any other clinical environment I've been involved in.

Around here we are just starting to get DNPs and we've had PhamDs for a while. The hospitals around have agreed that only MDs/DOs will be called "Dr." to decrease patient confusion. I'm good with that. I know you don't debate the value of adding a few more hours of education to the improvement of care right? Just don't want to share the term Dr, and that's a good thing in a clinical environment. I do plan to further my education to PhD. If I stay in the hospital I plan to go by Ms. Last Name. If I'm in an academic environment, I wouldn't mind Dr.

Hey, I'm giving you the respect that your low opinion of nurses is not universally shared by everyone here okay?

 

[PreemieNrsTiffy]

Other than some research courses and some fluff, and 40,000 dollars more in debt.

My ADN course cost about $3,000 (okay it was probably before most of you were potty-trained) and my RN to BSN cost around $11,000 (and that was from a private not-for-profit school).

Research. . . That was what inspired me! I fell in love with my professor, the material, the concept. I started researching things at random.
I think I applied to graduate school just so I could gain entry back into a decent research library. Sigh. . .

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

Yes, there are some annoyed and venting people out there. Guess what, happy people don't usually post on public boards about how happy they are, not usually. In my current experience, our physician group is an incredibly skilled group. All are neonatologists which tell you they went beyond the usual internship/residency. A couple are MD/PhDs. Are they jerks off and on? You bet. As we all are. Way better than any other clinical environment I've been involved in.

Around here we are just starting to get DNPs and we've had PhamDs for a while. The hospitals around have agreed that only MDs/DOs will be called "Dr." to decrease patient confusion. I'm good with that. I know you don't debate the value of adding a few more hours of education to the improvement of care right? Just don't want to share the term Dr, and that's a good thing in a clinical environment. I do plan to further my education to PhD. If I stay in the hospital I plan to go by Ms. Last Name. If I'm in an academic environment, I wouldn't mind Dr.

Hey, I'm giving you the respect that your low opinion of nurses is not universally shared by everyone here okay?

I was a nurse (BSN), so I don't have a low opinion of them. Did I say some snarky comments? Yes. But, they were targeted at the same folks you despise that seem to devalue higher education. Not nurses in general. And if I offended you, I apologize. you are not the intended individuals I have issues with. I have no problem calling you Doctor X, as long as it's not in the patient setting.

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

My ADN course cost about $3,000 (okay it was probably before most of you were potty-trained) and my RN to BSN cost around $11,000 (and that was from a private not-for-profit school).

Research. . . That was what inspired me! I fell in love with my professor, the material, the concept. I started researching things at random.
I think I applied to graduate school just so I could gain entry back into a decent research library. Sigh. . .

I still have 35K from my BSN. It was well worth it. But, at the same time if I would of known I was going to do medicine, I would of gone the ADN route, and made some money earlier in my career before switching fields. If you like research, then BSN is the route to go. I wish the 2 degrees where separated by other things along with research. I felt I could of done without some of those courses, and thought it was just fluff to fill the credits for a BSN. Now the LPN to RN is a huge leap, the BSN vs ADN needs to figure how to create that same level of separation.

 

[KnuxNole]

You forgot to mention that a lot of the NP courses can be completed ONLINE View attachment 178728 really? Really? You compare a degree you can get online, to someone with a actual medical degree is laughable. I agree with your political rhetoric. UNIVERSITY of PHOENIX!

Soon there will be people rallying for all 4 years of med school to be all online :O

 

[KnuxNole]

That's because you're not in the NURSES lounge where they just blast physicians for mistakes that interns make while they learn. They will bash physicians all day, saying things like "why do we need doctors when we do all the work, while they just see the patient for a quick second in the AM." A lot of nurses don't understand the complicated orchestration that occurs behind the scenes while the physician is out of site. Doctors have to fight with insurance companies, make healthcare decisions based on what the pt can afford and what the insurance will cover, organizing follow up care with other specialist, communicating with all the other people caring for the pt (social worker, nurses, family etc) to formulate a health care plan that is feasible to the patient. Not to mention the mountain of paper work that is needed. Why do nurses complain about pay? Nurses work 36-40 hrs a week, and make 50k-100K with a minimum of a 2 year associates degree. A primary care doc makes about 160,000, and works on average 60Hrs a week, and the math adds up to be $51/hr. A fresh nurses makes 50,000K at $26/hr, with some I KNOW making $40/hr flat rate!

Cause for the layperson, number of hours worked and degrees don't matter, they want mo money right now! And screw the greedy doc making 160,000!

 

[Doudline]

Soon there will be people rallying for all 4 years of med school to be all online :O

You guys sure do get your panties in a bunch regarding 'dem online class, which is kind of ironic considering the overwhelming advocacy here by medical students for never attending class and just watching lecture at 2x speed and studying from different manuals. Because somehow those two things are very different uh.

 

[DH410]

You guys sure do get your panties in a bunch regarding 'dem online class, which is kind of ironic considering the overwhelming advocacy here by medical students for never attending class and just watching lecture at 2x speed and studying from different manuals. Because somehow those two things are very different uh.

Fairly certain this wasn't meant to be a serious argument, but just in case......

Most students watching lectures online at 2x speed are still doing many things "in real life." For example, not many of us advise skipping anatomy lab. And even though small group stuff tends to get a bad rep., there are a lot of useful small group sessions at my school. It's how they teach us the history and the physical.

I dislike PBL, but this also requires a person to be present, and is heavily used at many schools.

And that's just the first two years...I think the clinical years speak for themselves; they obviously cannot be replicated online.

 

[radkat101]

Browsed a few more threads over at all-nurses to understand why we are picking on them.

http://allnurses.com/general-nursing-discussion/becoming-doctor-like-423939-page4.html

http://allnurses.com/general-nursing-discussion/nurse-to-doctor-290207.html

From what I immediately gathered, there seems to be overwhelming acknowledgement of all that we endure to become physicians. Really makes us look bad over here...

 

[PreemieNrsTiffy]

I was a nurse (BSN), so I don't have a low opinion of them. And if I offended you, I apologize. you are not the intended individuals I have issues with.

First of all, just because you were/are a BSN does not negate the possibility of self-loathing. I've met a few nurses who went that route out of obligation and hated what they were and what they did.

Secondly, you did offend me, by presuming you could pigeon-hole me. I'm gonna let it go cause you're trying to be nice now. Try not to pre-judge an entire occupation 'kay? I even talk congenially with surgeons nowadays in spite of their history of throwing things (like charts and instruments) cause I've learned that each person brings their own history hidden under their skin.

As for me for now; Peace out baby docs! I'll leave y'all alone to figure out the changing landscape of healthcare. Best of luck!

As for me, I plan to study my way away from the bedside and into professor's hours. One too many Christmases spent at work for this tired nurse.

 

[Jibby321]

I went back for my BSN after nearly 20 years of RN practice. I thought it would be a complete and utter waste of time and money (thankfully had some decent tuition reimbursement). By and large I was very impressed with the things I learned, and I learned so much. There were some parts I didn't so much enjoy but mostly good stuff. Wound up liking it so much I decided to go back for MSN. Before that was all said and done I found myself applying for a BSN to PhD program. We'll see how that goes.

I always thought ADN made no sense because of this; almost no one gets through in 2 years. The pre-reqs alone usually take 1-2 semesters, add 2 years to that, you've got 3 years, for an Associates. I had 3 solid (full-time, every summer semester included) years & 90 credits into an Associates. How does that make sense? But I didn't have the resources or confidence to move 100 miles away to the closest BSN program. Also, I never "got it" regarding what nursing is. . . Professors may have tried to teach this (theory) but so much got thrown at us if it was presented I didn't get it and I'm no dummy. I now really understand the difference between the nursing model of care and the medical model of care. I'm not disrespecting the medical model! It's just a different approach and prioritization system.

Also, I don't believe nursing can gain respect in the interdisciplinary team in planning patient care if everyone else there are minimally bachelor to graduate-level trained professions. I believe nursing deserves a place at that table and we need to earn respect by demanding BSN as minimum entry level.

Thanks for the input I was just curious. She is now in pharmacy school because didn't want to go further in nursing for various reasons.

 

[Critical Mass REACHED]

Hey at least she holds true to one nursing stereotype....somehow, some way nurses will always let you know how much they work, even if it is totally tangential or not at all related to the conversation.

God how I miss those 3 day week,12Hr shifts. I thought 36-40hrs felt long to. Now, I'm grateful when I get a week where I don't go past 60hrs.

 

[Psai]

Browsed a few more threads over at all-nurses to understand why we are picking on them.

http://allnurses.com/general-nursing-discussion/becoming-doctor-like-423939-page4.html

http://allnurses.com/general-nursing-discussion/nurse-to-doctor-290207.html

From what I immediately gathered, there seems to be overwhelming acknowledgement of all that we endure to become physicians. Really makes us look bad over here...

Well those are just two out of many threads and from several years ago. But I was pretty impressed by the insight that they showed and it changed my mind a little.