NYU considering letting students graduate early for COVID-19

[Mass Effect]

And I wasn’t advocating helping out without adequate protection last week so don’t lump me in that group.

The hospitals currently don’t have adequate PPE for their staff. They definitely won’t have it for us. Even before we were kicked off rotations nationwide, my hospital wasn’t allowing students to use PPE because of “the shortage”. Can’t imagine it’s gotten better.

Anyway, it looks like this thread is turning political and you’re unwilling to see my point anyway so I’ll bounce. Feel free to quote and respond so you can get the last word if that helps your ego. All the best.

Prior to your last sentence, I was going to agree with you. I have never said med students or recent med graduates or anyone for that matter should work without PPE. They should walk off the job if there's no PPE. I have said that all along.

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[Mass Effect]

Ah, the old “anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot” world view. Very mature.

I make no apologies. I'm in the hospital. I see what's happened. I see my colleagues sick. Yes, anyone who thinks Trump is doing a good job is an idiot.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I make no apologies. I'm in the hospital. I see what's happened. I see my colleagues sick. Yes, anyone who thinks Trump is doing a good job is an idiot.

Ah yes, the appeal to authority/emotional appeal/ad hominem logical fallacy combo. Solid argument. Feel free to get the last word if you must, cause I won’t be responding.

 

[Mass Effect]

1 week ago, we also didn't know that young people could be at a higher likelihood to die than stated. 1 week ago, we also had no idea how bad the situation was in terms of PPE and that we are literally one of the only countries where health officials on tv seem to not be donning a full hazmat suit when approaching COVID patients. Again, if I saw a fire and someone was there I would probably run without protection to help them out but at the same time, if this is your profession as a firefighter..how many times can you risk going into the fire without safeguards? Point is, we're not addressing just one patient. We need to address a poor pattern that has been spiraling out of control. With so many educated individuals in this mix, the real tragedy is how infrastructures are not coming together, companies and individual sellers charging up the waazoo, and people still not maintaining social distancing with crowds gathering at stores and other locales.

Actually, we did know at least some of that last week. That was part of the argument for sending med students home - that we were running short of PPEs. Someone also brought up that some young people are very sick, so we knew that too.

The point is med students should never be forced to help and frankly, I'm a fan of keeping them home. But they've been offered the opportunity and the schools are being villianized, just as they were villianized last week for sending them home.

 

[Lawpy]

I make no apologies. I'm in the hospital. I see what's happened. I see my colleagues sick. Yes, anyone who thinks Trump is doing a good job is an idiot.

Do we really have to politicize this thread? SPF is a way better place for these discussions.

 

[Mass Effect]

Ah yes, the appeal to authority/emotional appeal/ad hominem logical fallacy combo. Solid argument. Feel free to get the last word if you must, cause I won’t be responding.

Has this become the new catch phrase on SDN? Because I think we need a smartphrase.

 

[Mass Effect]

Do we really have to politicize this thread? SPF is a way better place for these discussions.

The discussion came up and I replied. Not sure how this discussion wouldn't be political even without the mention of he who shall not be named.

 

[Lawpy]

Actually, we did know at least some of that last week. That was part of the argument for sending med students home - that we were running short of PPEs. Someone also brought up that some young people are very sick, so we knew that too.

The point is med students should never be forced to help and frankly, I'm a fan of keeping them home. But they've been offered the opportunity and the schools are being villianized, just as they were villianized last week for sending them home.

I think post-match MS4s should be allowed to graduate early and help out the hospitals where they'll be doing their residencies. I think these opportunities are better for MS3s heading to 4th year but they can also stay home.

 

[Mass Effect]

I think post-match MS4s should be allowed to graduate early and help out the hospitals where they'll be doing their residencies. I think these opportunities are better for MS3s heading to 4th year but they can also stay home.

MS3s (rising 4s) are less helpful and in their case, I'd err on the side of safety of themselves and everyone else by keeping them home. MS4s about to graduate at the very least have done sub-Is and are about to start intern year. In a perfect world, I would agree about helping out the hospitals they will be doing residencies in, but I think the help is needed now and by the time these students move, get apartments, get ready to work, the surge will likely have passed. Rather, I think they should help out where they are now unless they're in a community not yet hard hit.

 

[Lawpy]

MS3s (rising 4s) are less helpful and in their case, I'd err on the side of safety of themselves and everyone else by keeping them home. MS4s about to graduate at the very least have done sub-Is and are about to start intern year. In a perfect world, I would agree about helping out the hospitals they will be doing residencies in, but I think the help is needed now and by the time these students move, get apartments, get ready to work, the surge will likely have passed. Rather, I think they should help out where they are now unless they're in a community not yet hard hit.

I'm ok with that as long as they get resident benefits.

 

[bananafish94]

As a soon-to-be-graduating M4, I would take that deal. I would like to help. That said, it should be COMPLETELY voluntary. I don't personally have children, immunocompromised, or elderly at home. I personally don't have health issues that put me at particular risk. So that's a risk I would be willing to take given my own situation. It should absolutely not be mandated in any fashion like the previously mentioned schools are doing. Also, if you're going to make something mandatory, have the guts to just say it. Don't try and disguise it in a bunch of legalese like this Reddit post suggests they're doing.

 

[A Ryan Seacrest Type]

This is precisely what people were bitching about last week. They wanted to go in and "help out" as part of the curriculum. No one asked for salary or early graduation in those threads. And in fact any time the rest of us told them they should stay home, they bitched and complained.

Straight facts. I vividly recall some fool comparing our current reality dealing with Covid patients to that of seeing HIV patients, and that we signed up for this when we entered med school. People up in arms that they canceled clerkships and all that nonsense.

 

[Mass Effect]

As a soon-to-be-graduating M4, I would take that deal. I would like to help. That said, it should be COMPLETELY voluntary. I don't personally have children, immunocompromised, or elderly at home. I personally don't have health issues that put me at particular risk. So that's a risk I would be willing to take given my own situation. It should absolutely not be mandated in any fashion like the previously mentioned schools are doing. Also, if you're going to make something mandatory, have the guts to just say it. Don't try and disguise it in a bunch of legalese like this Reddit post suggests they're doing.

I don't believe any school has made it mandatory.

 

[kb1900]

First of all, I was never in favor of ANY med student being in the middle of this. Check my post history if you have any doubts about that. But you want to talk about hypocrite, let's talk about the med students who just last week ranted and raved about being sidelined as if they're useless and now rants and raves about being asked to work. The hypocrisy sure is thick, but it isn't on my end.

No no, people had mixed opinions last week and have mixed opinions now. Not all medical students wanted to help a week ago, and not all want to help now. And there is a degree of nuance to every task available for med students to help out with - indirect vs direct patient contact, time in the hospital, remote work etc. I’m not sure if you’re fixated on the supposed hypocrisy of a single or few posters or your conflating the opinions of multiple people but it’s completely unneeded

I was one of the people who wanted to help last week and guess where I spent most of my time? In the ICUs and covid units - as a “useless m3”. Felt like I was pretty essential when there were 10 codes in one shift and only 1 person other than me to deliver stat meds from the pharmacies while things started becoming short supply. But as demands change so will my role. I’m now spending more time sourcing PPE for frontline staff, doing telehealth (triage, follow up, results), and working with infection prevention to improve policies for covid and critical care units. Still also spending some as ancillary help on the floor. Almost my entire class and school is helping out and contributing in some way. And the same is true across most NYC schools from what I can tell.

Let’s step back with the generalizations about attitudes of “all med students”. You were convinced that students are all useless a week ago. Yet there’s thousands of students working 40+ hours a week in the city to help out. But we’re just getting in the way right

 

[bananafish94]

I don't believe any school has made it mandatory.

Well I'm assuming that the Reddit post linked here was made in good faith, which may be wrong, but it looks like there are others in the thread that corroborated receiving that email. If I'm reading it correctly, it says that students who have already taken the radiology elective must participate in the COVID work or else they're placed on a leave of absence, no? At least at my school, the radiology elective is the most popular elective in M4 year so I'd have to imagine that would be a non-insignificant portion of the class. And I saw an actual screenshot of the email from Einstein that quite literally did say it would be a "formal part of the curriculum" after April 6, although they may have walked that back? So at least two schools have made it mandatory even if one of them backed down in response to feedback.

 

[deleted731525]

I put out a blanket statement on my FB that any posters posting in support of Trump would be unfriended. It got over 200 likes. I held true to my promise. Weeding out idiots on FB is never a problem.

Ha, I would have to unfriend more or less my entire family.

 

[jurisburger]

Straight facts. I vividly recall some fool comparing our current reality dealing with Covid patients to that of seeing HIV patients, and that we signed up for this when we entered med school. People up in arms that they canceled clerkships and all that nonsense.

"Some fool" doesn't represent all or perhaps even most students' perspectives. From what I've seen lots of students are helping out but also want reasonable compensation (i.e. resident benefits at the very least) just like any other paid health care worker if they're going into the hospital. True, some people are not in a situation where they can safely pitch in but a lot of people that can are doing so. That debate has been ongoing ever since the start.

However, the current outcry is directed toward the school(s) who are volunteering their students into a high risk situation and passing it off as if they're throwing those students an educational bone...whilst continuing to collect tuition money. That's not ethical and students are right to speak out about it. It's not like they're signing up for a run of the mill ward rotation with teaching and other structured activities tailored for learning. If there's truly such a dire need for extra hands on deck then people should be compensated accordingly. How the **** are we not all on the same page about this. Are there hospital admin dogs in disguise here?

 

[deleted731525]

Never underestimate the idiocy of the American public. Wait until it's their communities in the hot seat and then we'll see how many think he's doing a good job.

Many still will, they'll deflect and blame it on others even themselves before they criticize him. I know many true believers(not people who didn't like HRC and went with what they saw as the lesser evil, Im talking about people who were with him from day 1), it's a cult.

 

[deleted731525]

I make no apologies. I'm in the hospital. I see what's happened. I see my colleagues sick. Yes, anyone who thinks Trump is doing a good job is an idiot.

I wouldn't say idiots, but misinformed. There are definitely popular media stations not covering anything you are seeing and presenting a much different picture. That's the root cause imo. I can definitely see somebody not in healthcare having a hard time differentiating between different narratives.

 

[Mass Effect]

No no, people had mixed opinions last week and have mixed opinions now. Not all medical students wanted to help a week ago, and not all want to help now. And there is a degree of nuance to every task available for med students to help out with - indirect vs direct patient contact, time in the hospital, remote work etc. I’m not sure if you’re fixated on the supposed hypocrisy of a single or few posters or your conflating the opinions of multiple people but it’s completely unneeded

I was one of the people who wanted to help last week and guess where I spent most of my time? In the ICUs and covid units - as a “useless m3”. Felt like I was pretty essential when there were 10 codes in one shift and only 1 person other than me to deliver stat meds from the pharmacies while things started becoming short supply. But as demands change so will my role. I’m now spending more time sourcing PPE for frontline staff, doing telehealth (triage, follow up, results), and working with infection prevention to improve policies for covid and critical care units. Still also spending some as ancillary help on the floor. Almost my entire class and school is helping out and contributing in some way. And the same is true across most NYC schools from what I can tell.

Let’s step back with the generalizations about attitudes of “all med students”. You were convinced that students are all useless a week ago. Yet there’s thousands of students working 40+ hours a week in the city to help out. But we’re just getting in the way right

Which schools are helping out? I have yet to see/hear of an an MS 3 providing patient care, so enlighten me please.

 

[Mass Effect]

Let’s step back with the generalizations about attitudes of “all med students”. You were convinced that students are all useless a week ago. Yet there’s thousands of students working 40+ hours a week in the city to help out. But we’re just getting in the way right

Also, nowhere did I say "all med students" so putting that in quotes is not only inaccurate but a huge assumption.

 

[Mass Effect]

Well I'm assuming that the Reddit post linked here was made in good faith, which may be wrong, but it looks like there are others in the thread that corroborated receiving that email. If I'm reading it correctly, it says that students who have already taken the radiology elective must participate in the COVID work or else they're placed on a leave of absence, no? At least at my school, the radiology elective is the most popular elective in M4 year so I'd have to imagine that would be a non-insignificant portion of the class. And I saw an actual screenshot of the email from Einstein that quite literally did say it would be a "formal part of the curriculum" after April 6, although they may have walked that back? So at least two schools have made it mandatory even if one of them backed down in response to feedback.

Nowhere in either school has it said mandatory. Einstein specifically answered that it is not mandatory and it does not say it's mandatory in the Reddit post. If you have an updated email from the school, please share, but I haven't seen anything that says that "students who have already taken the radiology elective must participate in the COVID work or else they're placed on a leave of absence."

 

[Mass Effect]

"Some fool" doesn't represent all or perhaps even most students' perspectives. From what I've seen lots of students are helping out but also want reasonable compensation (i.e. resident benefits at the very least) just like any other paid health care worker if they're going into the hospital. True, some people are not in a situation where they can safely pitch in but a lot of people that can are doing so. That debate has been ongoing ever since the start

No one even mentioned paid compensation until NYU offered to graduate their class. The fact of the matter is that students would be going into the hospital without pay if this wasn't going on. Now that it is, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask they graduate early and be an intern with pay and benefits, but to ask an intern salary while still working as a student is going to prove to be a non-starter at most hospitals, so in that case, I'd opt out of helping if that's the expectation.

However, the current outcry is directed toward the school(s) who are volunteering their students into a high risk situation and passing it off as if they're throwing those students an educational bone...whilst continuing to collect tuition money. That's not ethical and students are right to speak out about it

If these are mandatory, then I'd agree it's unethical and absolutely wrong. I still don't believe any school has made it mandatory. The AAMC, rightfully, asked that this be completely voluntary which as far as I've seen/heard has been respected.

 

[Mass Effect]

I wouldn't say idiots, but misinformed. There are definitely popular media stations not covering anything you are seeing and presenting a much different picture. That's the root cause imo. I can definitely see somebody not in healthcare having a hard time differentiating between different narratives.

And people are, thankfully, losing their jobs over it. I don't think they're misinformed, honestly. I think they choose what to believe and they've made a conscious decision not to believe science and instead, want to believe there are political motives behind allowing apocalyptic-type scenarios to occur. In my book, that makes them idiots. YMMV.

 

[kb1900]

Which schools are helping out? I have yet to see/hear of an an MS 3 providing patient care, so enlighten me please.

All the schools involved in the early graduation stuff. Basically the nyc schools. Nyu Sinai Cornell Einstein probably more

Most of the clinical stuff like telehealth is reserved for m3 and 4s.

Also, nowhere did I say "all med students" so putting that in quotes is not only inaccurate but a huge assumption.

fair enough maybe I’m just reading into that but it was my impression that a lot of your posts generalize across all students

 

[Mass Effect]

All the schools involved in the early graduation stuff. Basically the nyc schools. Nyu Sinai Cornell Einstein probably more

Most of the clinical stuff like telehealth is reserved for m3 and 4s

Yes telehealth certainly and I believe that was mentioned last week. I meant which schools have MS3s on campus, in the ICU, as you mentioned? I haven't seen an MS3 in at least a week

 

[A Ryan Seacrest Type]

"Some fool" doesn't represent all or perhaps even most students' perspectives. From what I've seen lots of students are helping out but also want reasonable compensation (i.e. resident benefits at the very least) just like any other paid health care worker if they're going into the hospital. True, some people are not in a situation where they can safely pitch in but a lot of people that can are doing so. That debate has been ongoing ever since the start.

However, the current outcry is directed toward the school(s) who are volunteering their students into a high risk situation and passing it off as if they're throwing those students an educational bone...whilst continuing to collect tuition money. That's not ethical and students are right to speak out about it. It's not like they're signing up for a run of the mill ward rotation with teaching and other structured activities tailored for learning. If there's truly such a dire need for extra hands on deck then people should be compensated accordingly. How the **** are we not all on the same page about this. Are there hospital admin dogs in disguise here?

I mean, I agree with everything you said. I was just referring to comparing seeing Corona patients the same as seeing HIV patients. And that for some reason we “signed up for this” when we entered med school. Like you stated, there is nothing wrong with voluntarily wanting to help in some capacity, and like you said proper precautions and compensations should be in place when students risk their lives and pay tuition. I think most people are on the same page... I hope.

 

[cbrons]

Never underestimate the idiocy of the American public. Wait until it's their communities in the hot seat and then we'll see how many think he's doing a good job.

The federal government isnt going to solve any major problems. They are mostly in the business of creating them, regardless of who is president.

 

[cbrons]

Of course it does. What do you think is going to happen in Podunkville population 10,000 and its 100-bed hospital and 7 attendings of all specialties when 50 Covid patients show up at once? How many ICU beds do you think they have, let alone ventilators? How much PPEs do you think they have?

I don’t believe your numbers are accurate at all. I like more realistic models like this one from WashU which very clearly shows that the trainwreck of NYC/NJ/New Orleans will not come close to being replicated in every rural area in the country. In fact, the places where it is worst at right now are only going to get far worse (but will peak in the next two weeks) and the places where it isn’t bad will mostly be fine, with some exceptions (eg Missouri).

IHME | COVID-19 Projections

Explore forecasts of COVID-19 cases, deaths, and hospital resource use.

covid19.healthdata.org

 

[T687]

"The estimated excess demand on hospital systems is predicated on the enactment of social distancing measures in all states that have not done so already within the next week and maintenance of these measures throughout the epidemic, emphasizing the importance of implementing, enforcing, and maintaining these measures to mitigate hospital system overload and prevent deaths."

 

[KnuxNole]

I’m in a rural place and the surge is coming. Thankfully we don’t have too many idiots so they are trying to listen and flatten the curve. The teenagers are the problem but the cops are on them which is awesome.

 

[libertyyne]

But I’m not in NYC. And most of the country isnt either. Shelter in place makes sense on the east coast right now. But do we need every rural county with a shelter in place order? That’s my point.

Because you could be in a rural community with uncontrolled spread and then have a complete nightmare on your hands without vents. Thats the point of shelter in place.

 

[KnuxNole]

Because you could be in a rural community with uncontrolled spread and then have a complete nightmare on your hands without vents. Thats the point of shelter in place.

That’s our worry right now, we had to open up another wing just for COVID/suspected covid, and we are worried about not having space for the ICU + this floor. And more importantly, if multiple physicians get quarantined certain services will be dropping like flies.

 

[sunshinefl]

As one of the M3s that @Mass Effect is probably referring to from other threads, my response to being accused of hypocrisy:

1. Since we were pulled from rotations 12 days ago, much has changed and more is known about the situation.

2. Some of us were just shocked at our fellow students who had the thought process that we literally know nothing and a random church volunteer could be more useful. That was a philosophical debate.

3. At the time of being pulled from rotations my core hospital had zero COVID19 cases. Now they have several.

4. I am in fact still a licensed RN. That hasn’t changed. Although I can’t just run in to start doing shifts because I am not employed by anyone and I still have online coursework to do for my school which takes more than the amount of time my rotations took.

5. It feels like hypocrisy from the naysayers that we weren’t allowed to continue our rotations in an ordinary fashion, but are suddenly called upon as hospitals get overrun and PPE is gone.

6. M4s May have already completed their curriculum or only still had specific lighter post-match rotations or rotations useful to their future residency. They may be living far away from their school because of where they were doing their rotations. To suddenly require* them to come do an inpatient COVID19 Sub-I when they’ve been out of the game, finished their requirements, or are not interested seems wrong.

*I use “require” because that is what is being discussed currently.

 

[Mass Effect]

I don’t believe your numbers are accurate at all. I like more realistic models like this one from WashU which very clearly shows that the trainwreck of NYC/NJ/New Orleans will not come close to being replicated in every rural area in the country. In fact, the places where it is worst at right now are only going to get far worse (but will peak in the next two weeks) and the places where it isn’t bad will mostly be fine, with some exceptions (eg Missouri).

IHME | COVID-19 Projections

Explore forecasts of COVID-19 cases, deaths, and hospital resource use.

covid19.healthdata.org

No one is going to be "fine." At all. Where in that projection did you get that?

 

[Mass Effect]

As one of the M3s that @Mass Effect is probably referring to from other threads, my response to being accused of hypocrisy:

1. Since we were pulled from rotations 12 days ago, much has changed and more is known about the situation.

Nothing's really changed. It's just that some are finally taking notice. Part of the argument at that time was that there was a shortage of PPE and that young people are also at risk of complications. None of that has changed.

3. At the time of being pulled from rotations my core hospital had zero COVID19 cases. Now they have several

Again, this was said over and over. Even if you had no cases, everyone knew it wouldn't remain that way.

5. It feels like hypocrisy from the naysayers that we weren’t allowed to continue our rotations in an ordinary fashion, but are suddenly called upon as hospitals get overrun and PPE is gone

You're an MS3, right? Which school is calling on MS3s? We said in that thread that if it becomes an "all hands on deck" situation, all med students should be prepared. This was discussed. But as of last week, we weren't there yet. That was said too. So I don't think it's hypocrisy.

6. M4s May have already completed their curriculum or only still had specific lighter post-match rotations or rotations useful to their future residency. They may be living far away from their school because of where they were doing their rotations. To suddenly require* them to come do an inpatient COVID19 Sub-I when they’ve been out of the game, finished their requirements, or are not interested seems wrong

I don't believe any school is requiring them to do anything and in fact, one school specifically said their option to help out only applied to those still in the area. It was in black and white. So not sure what you're talking about.

 

[allantois]

Mount Sinai hospital leaders holed up in Florida vacation homes during coronavirus crisis

While heroic staffers beg for protective equipment and don garbage bags to treat coronavirus patients at a Mount Sinai hospital, two of the system’s top executives are waiting out the public …

www.google.com

 

[cloth_alert00]

for med schools graduating their students early, is there some sort of catch or contingency?

 

[Oedipa Maas]

for med schools graduating their students early, is there some sort of catch or contingency?

For us it's optional, we have to submit a letter explaining why we want to do it and what we think we can do to help. We also have to get permission from our matched institution and get them to pay for our malpractice insurance.

 

[radsisrad]

I don't he's racist for issuing a travel ban. I think he's racist for insisting on calling it the China virus like a petulant, ignorant child.

edited by moderator

 

[ooh a bean]

edited by moderator

chill dude

Naming a virus after an entire ethnicity or a country isn't good. There's a reason why H1N1 was never called American Virus even though the US botched its handling of it.

Asian Americans report over 650 racist acts over last week, new data says

“The deliberate use of terms like ‘Chinese virus’ has definitely fanned the flames of racism toward Asian Americans in this country,” one nonprofit leader said.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[samac]

It's nice to see some people are able to help. Our state asked for medical student volunteers, to jump on the front lines and test patients in testing centers, without any compensation, any guarantee of PPE, or guarantee of medical coverage if we were to fall seriously ill on the front lines.
Some people might want to put their lives on the line just to volunteer. I thought about it momentarily and spoke with my brother whos national guard and he told me, "I'm willing to put my life on the line to do what needs to be done. I'll happily stand between someone else and danger. But I am paid to do that. And my family is taken care of if I die in the line of fire. It's BS they're asking you to risk your life for no promises".
At a damn minimum, they're going to have to pay me a resident salary to do it.

 

[ciestar]

It's nice to see some people are able to help. Our state asked for medical student volunteers, to jump on the front lines and test patients in testing centers, without any compensation, any guarantee of PPE, or guarantee of medical coverage if we were to fall seriously ill on the front lines.
Some people might want to put their lives on the line just to volunteer. I thought about it momentarily and spoke with my brother whos national guard and he told me, "I'm willing to put my life on the line to do what needs to be done. I'll happily stand between someone else and danger. But I am paid to do that. And my family is taken care of if I die in the line of fire. It's BS they're asking you to risk your life for no promises".
At a damn minimum, they're going to have to pay me a resident salary to do it.

It’s almost insulting.

 

[radsisrad]

chill dude

Naming a virus after an entire ethnicity or a country isn't good. There's a reason why H1N1 was never called American Virus even though the US botched its handling of it.

Asian Americans report over 650 racist acts over last week, new data says

“The deliberate use of terms like ‘Chinese virus’ has definitely fanned the flames of racism toward Asian Americans in this country,” one nonprofit leader said.

www.nbcnews.com

edited by moderator

 

[ooh a bean]

edited by moderator

your failure in logic blows my mind

I await the day for when, by your own logic, you campaign for H1N1 and HIV to be called the American viruses

 

[radsisrad]

your failure in logic blows my mind

I await the day for when, by your own logic, you campaign for H1N1 and HIV to be called the American viruses

edited by moderator

 

[samac]

edited by moderator

This is a really nonproductive argument. Can we just stop?

 

[ooh a bean]

edited by moderator

Your ignorance about what you're arguing is remarkable.

Your argument is about who is to blame for the spread. You never once actually stated that the place of origin was to be blamed.

 

[TheDataKing]

Please keep it professional, everyone

 

[Mass Effect]

At a damn minimum, they're going to have to pay me a resident salary to do it.

And a million dollar life insurance policy. That should put the brakes on this "go out there and do this for your community with no promises of PPE" nonsense.