OC/LA Groups (Sanitized Version)

Healthcare jobs with pay you can see.
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
sloh said:
I’d fear for my life in Bakersfield and Fresno
Click to expand...


Lived in Bakersfield for 1 year in the late 1990s, not my cup of tea but I never felt unsafe there.

Friend of mine moved to Fresno because his wife is part of a large extended Sikh family there. He is very happy and is making a killing.
 
Last edited:
nimbus said:
Lived in Bakersfield for 1 year in the late 1990s, not my cup of tea but I never felt unsafe there.

Friend of mine moved to Fresno because his wife is part of a large extended Sikh family there. He is very happy and is making a killing.
Click to expand...
The problem with the entirety of the central valley is that the weather is absolute ****. You're paying the so-called "paradise tax" to live in California, but the climate is horrendous.

It's boiling hot and dry for months in the summer, eternal drought, and consistently has several of the top 5 worst air quality cities in the nation. Might as well pick a spot in New Mexico or west Texas.

The best thing that can be said about the climate is that you're only a couple hours from the coast, and a couple hours from the mountains.
 
pgg said:
The problem with the entirety of the central valley is that the weather is absolute ****. You're paying the so-called "paradise tax" to live in California, but the climate is horrendous.

It's boiling hot and dry for months in the summer, eternal drought, and consistently has several of the top 5 worst air quality cities in the nation. Might as well pick a spot in New Mexico or west Texas.

The best thing that can be said about the climate is that you're only a couple hours from the coast, and a couple hours from the mountains.
Click to expand...

I mean with airplanes you're always only a couple of hours from the coast or mountains
 
pgg said:
The problem with the entirety of the central valley is that the weather is absolute ****. You're paying the so-called "paradise tax" to live in California, but the climate is horrendous.

It's boiling hot and dry for months in the summer, eternal drought, and consistently has several of the top 5 worst air quality cities in the nation. Might as well pick a spot in New Mexico or west Texas.

The best thing that can be said about the climate is that you're only a couple hours from the coast, and a couple hours from the mountains.
Click to expand...
People from the area like to spin the 3 hr drive to LA or SF as a benefit but that trip gets old real fast to a point that anyone rarely does it. If you’re into lakes and the national park nearby than I can start to see the appeal of living there….sort of
 
Davidfromcali said:
People from the area like to spin the 3 hr drive to LA or SF as a benefit but that trip gets old real fast to a point that anyone rarely does it. If you’re into lakes and the national park nearby than I can start to see the appeal of living there….sort of
Click to expand...

Yup, did my intern year in central cali and the drive back to SoCal was not fun.
 
Twiggidy said:
We all know you have to put in the work to get the salaries we dream about. The math has been done on here enough but assume a unit value of $50 (which most wont complain about) a 40 hr work week and 8 weeks vacation puts you a 350k (425k if the unit value is $60 which great for most pp), and that's not including call stipends if there are any. So a minimum being 500k isn't crazy. I think the moral is we could all use bigger pay to keep up with the current inflated economy where everything is expensive even to people who make good money. Most LA citizens don't make anywhere near 500k/year
Click to expand...

I was trying to figure out which year you are talking about. 2025 Average locums 350/hr. 40 hours/44 weeks gets you 616k.
 
pgg said:
The problem with the entirety of the central valley is that the weather is absolute ****. You're paying the so-called "paradise tax" to live in California, but the climate is horrendous.

It's boiling hot and dry for months in the summer, eternal drought, and consistently has several of the top 5 worst air quality cities in the nation. Might as well pick a spot in New Mexico or west Texas.

The best thing that can be said about the climate is that you're only a couple hours from the coast, and a couple hours from the mountains.
Click to expand...

I was always worried that my car engine would overheat to pass Grapevine during summer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pgg
narcotics999 said:
I was always worried that my car engine would overheat to pass Grapevine during summer.
Click to expand...
Never great when CALTRANS has to actually make a sign to warn drivers…
IMG_0130.jpeg
 
narcotics999 said:
I was always worried that my car engine would overheat to pass Grapevine during summer.
Click to expand...

lol my last day of intern year when I was driving back from Visalia to SoCal, my 10 year old scion tC broke down smack dab in the middle—with all my belongings still remaining in the hatchback.
 
Having to pay California income tax is worth about 100k in pretax income.

Effective tax rate at 600k is 10.4%. Marginal is 12.4%. So 500k Texas is same as 600k California from purely a take home standpoint.

Historically I would say there’s no reason to ever live in central California/inland empire, but with house prices near the coast being what they are a lot of anesthesiologists won’t ever be able to buy near the coast anyway. For a lot of people being able to own a home is important.
 
Having to pay California income tax is worth about 100k in pretax income.

Effective tax rate at 600k is 10.4%. Marginal is 12.4%. So 500k Texas is same as 600k California from purely a take home standpoint.

Historically I would say there’s no reason to ever live in central California/inland empire, but with house prices near the coast being what they are a lot of anesthesiologists won’t ever be able to buy near the coast anyway. For a lot of people being able to own a home is important.
Click to expand...

“Ever” is a strong statement there but I would agree
 
sloh said:
“Ever” is a strong statement there but I would agree
Click to expand...
True. I guess I meant historically if you didn’t have family in the area it was a weird choice. Now I 100% get it. And despite the hate the weather is still much better than Midwest, and a bit better than Nevada/Arizona too, if you want a temperate climate.

I really like this site for weather breakdowns: Riverside Climate, Weather By Month, Average Temperature (California, United States) - Weather Spark

weatherspark.com

Phoenix Climate, Weather By Month, Average Temperature (Arizona, United States) - Weather Spark

In Phoenix, the summers are sweltering and dry, the winters are cool, and it is mostly clear year round. Over the course of the year, the temperature typically varies from 45°F to 107°F and is rarely below 37°F or above 112°F.
weatherspark.com weatherspark.com
 
<(^_^)> said:
True. I guess I meant historically if you didn’t have family in the area it was a weird choice. Now I 100% get it. And despite the hate the weather is still much better than Midwest, and a bit better than Nevada/Arizona too, if you want a temperate climate.

I really like this site for weather breakdowns: Riverside Climate, Weather By Month, Average Temperature (California, United States) - Weather Spark

weatherspark.com

Phoenix Climate, Weather By Month, Average Temperature (Arizona, United States) - Weather Spark

In Phoenix, the summers are sweltering and dry, the winters are cool, and it is mostly clear year round. Over the course of the year, the temperature typically varies from 45°F to 107°F and is rarely below 37°F or above 112°F.
weatherspark.com weatherspark.com
Click to expand...


Inland Empire is better than Central Valley.
 
nimbus said:
Inland Empire is better than Central Valley.
Click to expand...
Inland empire is vast as well and can encompass anything east of Pomona to almost Barstow and the desert down to Yucaipa (which has beautiful mountain spots/apple orchards and pumpkin patches). It also consists of Big Bear, Joshua Tree and Palm Springs and will run down to Temecula at it's southern border. The weather is almost perfect (to me) during all the months except July and August where the highs can be up to 110F; the winter low can reach as low as 30-40F. San Diego, Los Angeles and the OC can be day trips so accessibility to different metro areas is way better than the Central Valley. For non-Californians you just hear about how crime-ridden the "IE" is. But there are beautiful places with very minimal crime if you know where to look.
 
markneil said:
Inland empire is vast as well and can encompass anything east of Pomona to almost Barstow and the desert down to Yucaipa (which has beautiful mountain spots/apple orchards and pumpkin patches). It also consists of Big Bear, Joshua Tree and Palm Springs and will run down to Temecula at it's southern border. The weather is almost perfect (to me) during all the months except July and August where the highs can be up to 110F; the winter low can reach as low as 30-40F. San Diego, Los Angeles and the OC can be day trips so accessibility to different metro areas is way better than the Central Valley. For non-Californians you just hear about how crime-ridden the "IE" is. But there are beautiful places with very minimal crime if you know where to look.
Click to expand...

Chino hills, Diamond Bar, Walnut, Claremont, La Verne are either Inland Empire or Inland Empire adjacent and are great places to live (safe, good schools, low crime).

Too much hate on inland southern California.
 
Would anyone love to live in Mill Valley or Marin County?
 
sloh said:
Marin County is beautiful and quite HCOL. That said, it gives me more retirement vibes. Maybe later
Click to expand...
Then live in SF and commute to the Marin job. Pretty easy commute. A lot of younger/single docs (or folks who prefer city life) do the reverse commutes. And nowadays the bay area good school district suburbs are likely more expensive than SF lol
 
Ezekiel2517 said:
Then live in SF and commute to the Marin job. Pretty easy commute. A lot of younger/single docs (or folks who prefer city life) do the reverse commutes. And nowadays the bay area good school district suburbs are likely more expensive than SF lol
Click to expand...
Wait, you think Marin jobs would be better paying? I would expect the jobs there to be more scarce and pay less.
 
sloh said:
Wait, you think Marin jobs would be better paying? I would expect the jobs there to be more scarce and pay less.
Click to expand...
What I was referring to are the folks who don't like the sleepy suburban life can always live in the city and reverse commute to sites outside the city. In SF, there are different jobs like UCSF, Kaiser, private practice groups, etc so it depends on what you're comparing them to. But, yes, there are jobs outside the city that have higher compensation than those in the city. Some of them a lot more. Obviously there's locums as well. In the bay area (and I'm assuming other regions in CA as well), everyone is competing for anesthesiologists. If you aren't, you're probably gonna run into trouble sooner or later. Hospitals need to keep these OR's running. If the compensation isn't sufficient, it is hard to attract anesthesiologists bc of the cost of housing. Hospitals and groups know this.
 
Ezekiel2517 said:
What I was referring to are the folks who don't like the sleepy suburban life can always live in the city and reverse commute to sites outside the city. In SF, there are different jobs like UCSF, Kaiser, private practice groups, etc so it depends on what you're comparing them to. But, yes, there are jobs outside the city that have higher compensation than those in the city. Some of them a lot more. Obviously there's locums as well. In the bay area (and I'm assuming other regions in CA as well), everyone is competing for anesthesiologists. If you aren't, you're probably gonna run into trouble sooner or later. Hospitals need to keep these OR's running. If the compensation isn't sufficient, it is hard to attract anesthesiologists bc of the cost of housing. Hospitals and groups know this.
Click to expand...
Commuting in and around SF is brutal…. But I do love the city. It’s unfortunate that the tech bros reign supreme there.
 
kidthor said:
Commuting in and around SF is brutal…. But I do love the city. It’s unfortunate that the tech bros reign supreme there.
Click to expand...
I did the SF-to-Marin commute for a couple years and it was no big deal. Depends on where you live in the city, tho. For me, it was maybe 25 min in the am, 40-50 in the afternoon home.
 
GaseousClay said:
kaiser locums paying $400-500/hr across so cal probably the best gig anywhere right now if you land one in San Diego or west LA
Click to expand...


I’m seeing ads for Kaiser locums by AMN Healthcare. Range given is $315-341 for general (filled) and $328-355 for peds. Per diem is still $250.

Kaiser also recruiting peds directly for 660-720k/yr. They do 1 week/mo of home peds call. Used to come in for age<2 or complex case. That recently changed to age<1 or complex case.
 
nimbus said:
I’m seeing ads for Kaiser locums by AMN Healthcare. Range given is $315-341 for general (filled) and $328-355 for peds. Per diem is still $250.

Kaiser also recruiting peds directly for 660-720k/yr. They do 1 week/mo of home peds call. Used to come in for age<2 or complex case. That recently changed to age<1 or complex case.
Click to expand...
I wonder how they're coming up with 720K, like, if that is total comp that includes all the benefits.
 
Includes benefits for sure. Just compare to FM offers from Kaiser. 300-400k. There’s no way that doesn’t include benefits. If it didn’t, they are inflating salaries across the board.
 
sloh said:
Includes benefits for sure. Just compare to FM offers from Kaiser. 300-400k. There’s no way that doesn’t include benefits. If it didn’t, they are inflating salaries across the board.
Click to expand...


Could be. Range listed for anesthesia is similar to what they list for cardiology and ortho, but lower than neurosurgery.
 
Last edited:
ambiturner said:
After a decade in the wilderness peds is (again) having its day in the sun. The low end of that is competitive nationally and the high end I would expect requires picking up some extra work.
Click to expand...


Yeah the range for peds is about 100k higher than for generalists. Part of it must reflect obligatory peds call but it likely also reflects the market for peds specialists nowadays.

Southern California Permanente Medical Group | SCPMG

One the nation’s premier medical groups, with over 8,000 multispecialty physicians delivering excellent health care to 4.9 million Kaiser Permanente members.
southerncalifornia.permanente.org southerncalifornia.permanente.org
 
You will get crushed with w2 taxes at kaiser Southern California division. A 700k w2 Kaiser job is equivalent to a 600k 1099 job in California. As weird as that sounds. Especially if you have a spouse with healthcare benefits already.
 
nimbus said:
Yeah the range for peds is about 100k higher than for generalists. Part of it must reflect obligatory peds call but it likely also reflects the market for peds specialists nowadays.

Southern California Permanente Medical Group | SCPMG

One the nation’s premier medical groups, with over 8,000 multispecialty physicians delivering excellent health care to 4.9 million Kaiser Permanente members.
southerncalifornia.permanente.org southerncalifornia.permanente.org
Click to expand...
For most of my career I got paid less to do peds anesthesia than my generalist colleagues. I’m glad the tide is turning.
 
Last edited:
kidthor said:
For most of my career I got got paid less to do peds anesthesia than my generalist colleagues. I’m glad the tide is turning.
Click to expand...
Correct me if I’m wrong, but historically I think peds was lower pay due to your income being tied to the insurance of the patients you treated. Most kids needing complex work were non private insured with much lower reimbursement rates (medical and whatnot).

My guess would be now that all insurance reimbursement across the board is crap and hospitals/ASCs have to give stipends, all of a suddenly peds training becomes more valuable and thus higher paid compared to their generalist colleagues.
 
In NorCal at least, Kaiser salaries for fellowship trained anesthesiologists have always been higher than generalists, even for CCM trained anesthesiologists. As far as the ad above, I don’t think that includes all benefits. Kaiser typically separates “salary” from “total compensation” when it comes to verbiage. I mean, 6-7 years ago their total comp for anesthesiologists with all benefits included was in the 750 range, here in NorCal. They think highly of their benefits/pension, to say the least lol. There’s no way their total comp isn’t higher today.
 
Radar26 said:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but historically I think peds was lower pay due to your income being tied to the insurance of the patients you treated. Most kids needing complex work were non private insured with much lower reimbursement rates (medical and whatnot).

My guess would be now that all insurance reimbursement across the board is crap and hospitals/ASCs have to give stipends, all of a suddenly peds training becomes more valuable and thus higher paid compared to their generalist colleagues.
Click to expand...
Correct - high Medicaid meant you were always costing the group money and if you made the same it was from blended units. There were a few high paid peds practices (Boston chop etc) that had endowments and good insurance contracts.

Now, like peds surg, peds anesthesia is paid a premium to maintain a high level NICU, which is one of the most lucrative services in the hospital. Even Medicaid pays the NICU at like 85%
 
ambiturner said:
Correct - high Medicaid meant you were always costing the group money and if you made the same it was from blended units. There were a few high paid peds practices (Boston chop etc) that had endowments and good insurance contracts.

Now, like peds surg, peds anesthesia is paid a premium to maintain a high level NICU, which is one of the most lucrative services in the hospital. Even Medicaid pays the NICU at like 85%
Click to expand...
Good explanation! Especially about Medicaid paying the hospitals tons of money for reimbursement which means they need to kick back anesthesia $$$ for anesthesia Medicaid which pays Jack.
 
Ezekiel2517 said:
In NorCal at least, Kaiser salaries for fellowship trained anesthesiologists have always been higher than generalists, even for CCM trained anesthesiologists. As far as the ad above, I don’t think that includes all benefits. Kaiser typically separates “salary” from “total compensation” when it comes to verbiage. I mean, 6-7 years ago their total comp for anesthesiologists with all benefits included was in the 750 range, here in NorCal. They think highly of their benefits/pension, to say the least lol. There’s no way their total comp isn’t higher today.
Click to expand...

TPMG has historically paid better than SCPMG but nowadays their listed ranges are lower (400s). This doesn’t seem right. One of our experienced pediatric cardiac guys moved to Oakland Kaiser because they made him an “offer he couldn’t refuse”. Maybe the site is not up to date.

The Permanente Medical Group of Northern California

A multispecialty medical group of 9,500 physicians who deliver world-class medical care to 4.6 million Kaiser Permanente members in Northern and Central California.
northerncalifornia.permanente.org northerncalifornia.permanente.org


SCPMG currently advertises these ranges for subspecialists.

General 544-627
Cardiac 568-601
Pain 399–567
Peds 660-721
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

D
San Francisco/San Jose PP Groups?
Replies
10
Views
3K
ToKingdomCome
T
C
Group Health Policies
Replies
9
Views
1K
chessknt
chessknt
A
Des moines group change?
2
Replies
75
Views
5K
MTGas2B
MTGas2B
C
LA Market
Replies
45
Views
6K
sloh
S
T
Is being a hospital employee worse than working for the big groups?
Replies
18
Views
3K
lotsapain
L
Top