Official 2015 IM Match Results!!!

[tom10]

School: DO
Step Scores: 223 Step 1, taking Step 2 in a few weeks (HUGE mistake). Mid 500s on COMLEX
Grades: 2.1 first two years (no lie). One HP the rest pass third year. Honors is next to impossible to get at my school and 4th year is P/F including Sub-I (thanks school, reeeeeeeeeeeally cool).
Research: O
AOA: wuht?
Rank: about 235 of 240 or so.
Interview Invites: 6 uni's, 9 community. Mainly midwest, some east coast love.

Rejections: Plenty.


Matched: Community program in Ohio. #4 on list. Loved this place so I'm not mad, but kind of shocked since my top 3 I had amazing interviews at which were all uni's. Didn't send thank you notes so maybe that messed me up?


Advice: After comparing to some friends who took Step 2 with similar scores on Step 1 and Comlex, I know waiting to take Step 2 hurt me in terms of getting interviews. I was ready for step 2, but didn't take it. Thought I wanted to just do hospitalist though so I didn't think it mattered much.

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[gutonc]

kind of a sad turnout

But pretty typical. We usually get about 5-10% of people who beg for help on the various megathreads coming back to report how they did.

Yep. Although, I understand that for those who didn't get their top choices, coming here and publicizing that would be difficult. I just figured that the anonymous option would get more people contributing. Also, unfortunately, Gutonc and Jdh haven't been prodding as much as past years

I gave up on you all so long ago it's not even funny. I mean, I'm happy to post anonymously if people PM me but I'm not going to bother trying to make more work for myself.

 

[schpooner]

School: MD, East Coast, top 40
Step Scores: 231/241/P
Grades: H in IM, FM, all 4th year clerkships (incl subI and away), HP in all others except P in OB
Research: couple posters and abstracts, nothing fancy, couple institutional awards
AOA: nah, does GHHS count?
Rank: middle ish probably
Interview Invites: Yale, Hopkins Bayview, UNC, UVA, Northwestern, UTSW, USC, OHSU, UC Davis, other community ones

Rejections: Penn, Brown, BID, Brown, Duke (waitlisted), U Chicago (some type of weird pretend waitlist), UC Denver, UW, stanford, UCSD, Mayo

Matched (+ # on ROL): my first choice! Really thrilled to be going here.

Advice: 1) I did an early away rotation at UW and got honors in it and 2 awesome letters. They didn't even interview me. I had interviews at other fantastic institutions though without aways (NW, UTSW, Yale, OHSU), so I really feel like I should stress that doing an away really doesn't help you out that much. I'm also the kind of person that would most benefit from an away- I look 'meh' on paper (to top institutions) but get effusive feedback and comments on the wards.
2) I sent thank you letters and stuff when appropriate, meaning when there was a natural topic to follow up on or comment on from our interview. About 1/3 to 1/2 of people responded to me.
3) I got zero ranked to match phone calls or emails from my top 10 places, and still matched at my #1.

 

[gl0baltrader]

School: MD, top 10/15
Steps: 221/249/P (didn't finish studying for step 1)
Grades: 1 H, rest Pass (no hour restrictions for med students, 80-100 hr/wk during core rotations didnt study for shelves)
Research: 6 pubs (1 JAMA)
AOA: No
Rank: bottom half
Interviews: Johns Hopkins Hospital, Mayo, Bayview, Univ of Wisconsin, CCF, various CA programs (initially applied to 20 prgrams)
Rejections: plenty to list
Matched: #3, Mayo (impressed with their emphasis on education and research)

Advice:
Do well on Step 1 and clincal rotations.
Apply early and broadly, IM is becoming more competitive.

 

[gutonc]

Posted anonymously...because at this point you're all just embarassing yourselves. We're at 7% post volume here vs. the "Help Me Rank" thread. Typical.

Also, I love the "" around Top 20.

School: "Top 20" MD school
Step Scores: 265, 275, pass CS
Grades: All honors MS3 clerkships, medicine sub-I
Research: 1 first author paper, few other papers with lesser authorship, few posters
AOA: Yep
Rank: Top 10%
Interview Invites: MGH, BWH, BID, Yale, Penn, Johns Hopkins, Columbia, Cornell, UMD, UPMC, Northwestern, UVA, Duke, UNC, few others in the NE and upper Midwest (total 19)

Rejections: Michigan (only one!)


Matched (+ # on ROL): #3, will be staying with the home program. A bit disappointed not to have gotten #1 or #2, but I'll be academically and socially happy at #3.


Advice:
1. Clearly, the top end of academic IM is highly competitive and there is really nothing you can do to guarantee matching at your #1, no matter how shiny that application looks.
2. Listen to your gut feeling about a program. I ranked a Big Important Program like #9 on that list because I found the people to be unbearable.
3. Remember how the Match algorithm works and that you should rank the programs how you want. I got the sorts of "ranked to match" correspondence from a program that I really liked and eventually ranked #4 as well as others that were lower on my rank list. It was hard not to change things based on that sort of signal.

 

[disorder]

People.

This thread is USELESS unless you tell us WHERE you matched and not where you fell on your rank list. This just tells us you're not a TOOL on interviews. People want to know what's required to get into XYZ place.

If you want to make yourself anonymous to people, then obscure your step score or something. ie 250's/260's. No one cares about your exact number +/- 10 pts.

 

[starchild87]

School: MD, top 25 (couples matched w/ SO in more competitive specialty)
Steps: 260s/280s/pass
Grades: all honors
Research: 3 publications, 3 presentations (1 oral/2 posters), 3 abstracts
AOA: yes
Rank: unknown
Interviews: BWH, MGH, BID, Stanford, UCSF, Duke, Emory, U Chicago, Northwestern, U Mich, Hopkins, Yale, Penn, Columbia, Cornell, Mt Sinai, NYU
Rejections: BU, USC
Matched: BWH!!

Advice:
For those who are couples matching, don't be afraid to reach out to programs where you have an interview and your SO doesnt to try to advocate for them. We had great success with this strategy!!

 

[gutonc]

People.

This thread is USELESS unless you tell us WHERE you matched and not where you fell on your rank list. This just tells us you're not a TOOL on interviews. People want to know what's required to get into XYZ place.

If you want to make yourself anonymous to people, then obscure your step score or something. ie 250's/260's. No one cares about your exact number +/- 10 pts.

Are people still paying attention to this thread?

I only read it to make sure you're all not posting porn.

 

[MrGrrrMonster]

13K + views and only 57 responses? bummer.

 

[gutonc]

Posting for another user:

School: Not top 50 allopathic

Step Scores:260s/270s/pass

Clinical Grades: all A's except a B in Family Medicine, our 4th year is pass/fail

Research: No publications at the time of ERAS submission, poster presentations at various conferences, nothing really exciting.

AOA: Junior + GHHS

Rank: Top 5%

Interview Invites: Utah, UCSD, CPMC, Kaiser Oakland, Stanford, MGH, UW, UTSW, Baylor, UTHSCSA, Harbor UCLA, Loma Linda, UCLA-Olive View, Cedars, USC, UCI, OHSU, UC Davis, Kaiser Santa Clara, SCVMC, others, big west coast preference due to s/o being there. Ranked 13 of these.

Rejections: the remaining top 4, WL at UCLA

Matched (+ # on ROL):UCSD #3 Loved the PD at this program and happy to be in the same state as my SO

Advice: I really have to echo everything else said already, IM is getting really competitive, especially at the top programs, I think your school pedigree matters a lot, I got a lot of "so where is XYZ School of Medicine" type of questions on my interviews because in all honestly no one really knew haha, having great step scores/AOA/grades does not guarantee interviews. The one thing that I really lacked on my application was strong research, I had been working a project for quite some time but my project was placed on hold due to lab staff restructuring, I wasn't able to work on the project as much during M3 year so did not have much to show for it. If there are any M1s reading this (I am sure there are), try to get involved in a project early on if you are research naive.

There is only so much you can control with this process, I don't think any of my interviews went badly (hopefully not lol). Put your best foot forward and be on your A game during interview season, it is easier said than done because burn out and fatigue will happen, especially toward the end, make sure to have a few interviews before going to a place you really want to go. Apply broadly and early, good luck to everyone applying in the upcoming cycle!

Do yourself a favor and get step2ck/cs out of the way early, its just nice to get it over with and you can have it in time for ranking purposes.

 

[deleted547339]

School: MD, top 25 (couples matched w/ SO in more competitive specialty)
Steps: 260s/280s/pass
Grades: all honors
Research: 3 publications, 3 presentations (1 oral/2 posters), 3 abstracts
AOA: yes
Rank: unknown
Interviews: BWH, MGH, BID, Stanford, UCSF, Duke, Emory, U Chicago, Northwestern, U Mich, Hopkins, Yale, Penn, Columbia, Cornell, Mt Sinai, NYU
Rejections: BU, USC
Matched: BWH!!

Advice:
For those who are couples matching, don't be afraid to reach out to programs where you have an interview and your SO doesnt to try to advocate for them. We had great success with this strategy!!

Step 2 goes to the 280s!?!?!??!

 

[MedcatHouse]

Step 2 goes to the 280s!?!?!??!

He/she is part of the legend that keeps the dream going

 

[katniss2015]

School: MD, top 10
Steps: 250s/270s/P
Grades: All H except 1 core (not medicine)
Research: 1 first author pub from undergrad, case study pub from med school (had lots of other non-research activities+dual degree)
AOA: Yes
Rank: top 15%
Interviews: Columbia, Penn, Duke, UCSF, Stanford, UChicago
Rejections: MGH, BWH, Hopkins
Matched: #1 - Penn!

Advice:
to go against most of the advice here i would actually say that pedigree matters less than what you would think. i got to a very well ranked program and got rejected from some top notches places while i met plenty of people on the interview trail from lower ranked schools who had interviews to these places. point is...i really think its more about what you do at your school and where you are compared to your classmates applying in your specialty. thats who you are really competing against and less so people from other programs.

Temper your expectations...IM at top programs is extremely competitive and don't let anyone tell you any different

research research research *I think this potentially might have been what kept me out of the harvard/hopkins hospitals

 

[deleted547339]

He/she is part of the legend that keeps the dream going

I think you meant nightmare...

 

[gutonc]

Posted Anonymously (for a user who just registered today and could hardly be more anonymous than that):
School: Mid-tier SE
Step Scores: 250s, 260s
Grades: Honors in most
Research: Two pubs- clinical (not too fancy)
AOA: Yes
Rank: Top 25%

Interview Invites: Vandy, UVA, Emory, UNC, Stanford, UCSD, BWH, MGH, BID, Baylor, UAB, UF... Went on 12 total.
Rejections: UTSW, Duke

Matched (+ # on ROL): Vandy, #1!
Advice: Will echo above sentiments (honors/ steps/ esearch are probably or really important, depending on institution). I think having strong and diverse LORs helped me stand out (were discussed often). As far as interviews, having a unique research/academic interest that you enjoy talking about really helped- it was often the topic of conversation and also something I genuinely liked discussing. Talk to like-minded folks on the trail to get a more broad idea of their experience as different places. I appreciated their input (taken with a grain of salt) when I made my ROL and didn't want to just let one day or particular event determine how I felt. Enjoy the dinner the night before instead of dreading it (out of laziness or apathy or social exhaustion)- or try at least. It should be a fun free meal in my opinion, and if I hadn't been myself I wouldn't have realized how well I did/didn't mesh with residents.

Endless gratitude to gutonc and jdh and those who posted sensible wisdom. I don't feel wise enough to give further advice, but I guess I did something right. These threads helped me decide which interviews to take and that was invaluable. I would have wasted money and positive energy without them.

 

[InMe]

School: Mid tier allopathic
Step Scores: Step 1: 248, Step 2 CK: 272, Step 2 CS: pass (1st attempt)
Grades: All honors
Research: One paper as 2nd author in med school. Multiple oral and poster presentations
AOA: Senior AOA
Rank: Top Q
Interviews:
-Attended: JHH, Mayo, Wash U, BID, Columbia, Duke, UTSW, Baylor, UVA, Case, Michigan, NYU, Yale, home institution
-Rejected: B&W, MGH, UCSF, Upenn, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, U of Washington, Cleveland Clinic, U of Chicago, Cornell, Mt Sinai, UPMC, Stanford
Matched (+ # on ROL): Matched at Wash U (#2 on my list!)
Advice:
-Step 2 CK matters, so take it on time for the ERAS
-Coming from a top school is more important that what advisors would tell you
- IM is becoming extremely competitive
- Research experience has become standard in top programs
- Apply broadly, and don't be afraid to apply to programs where you think you won't get interviews
- Go with your gut feeling

 

[dukescriteria]

School: top 15
Step: 258/258/pass
Grades: H in all except family med and ambulatory med
Research: 1 first author and 1 second author paper in well-known journals, 1 case report, 1 poster at national conference, few posters at local conferences
AOA: yes
Rank: high
Interviews: UCSD, UCLA, UCSF, Stanford, UW, NW, UChicago, Penn, JHH, MGH, BWH, BID, Columbia, Cornell
-Attended: all but NW, UChicago, BID
-Rejected: USC, UC Davis
Matched (+ # on ROL): UCSF, #1

Advice for upcoming cycle:
-Things that are good to know, but not controllable at this point: pedigree matters, top programs love good research, don't try to be too unique, don't be weird.
-Schedule interviews you care about toward the latter half. Sure you're burned out, but you'll be seasoned. My best interviews were the last few.
-Don't go to pre-interview dinners or other optional things if you don't want to and don't think it'll affect how you rank them.
-Go with your gut when ranking. Imagine yourself opening the envelope (or however your school does it) and see how you feel upon finding out your match.
-Enjoy 4th year.

 

[afanrin]

don't try to be too unique, don't be weird.

LOL all I'm getting from this is - don't be yourself, be what you think other people what you to be

Don't go to pre-interview dinners or other optional things if you don't want to and don't think it'll affect how you rank them.

I think it is very valuable to meet and drink with the people you may be spending x amount of years with, but that's just my opinion. I do agree that not going won't have any affect on how you're ranked.

 

[235009]

I think it is very valuable to meet and drink with the people you may be spending x amount of years with, but that's just my opinion. I do agree that not going won't have any affect on how you're ranked.

Though I agree with you that rank lists are basically set before the interview unless you do something absurd during your interview like curse at one of the program staff. But that wasn't the point of the advice you quoted. He's saying that if it won't change your opinion of the program then it's ok to skip it. I knew I would rank my #1 first regardless based on location/reputation so I get what he's saying but I went to the pre-interview event anyway… not sure why you would pass up on free food/drinks

 

[afanrin]

Though I agree with you that rank lists are basically set before the interview unless you do something absurd during your interview like curse at one of the program staff. But that wasn't the point of the advice you quoted. He's saying that if it won't change your opinion of the program then it's ok to skip it. I knew I would rank my #1 first regardless based on location/reputation so I get what he's saying but I went to the pre-interview event anyway… not sure why you would pass up on free food/drinks

Fair enough. Of course everyone's interview season will differ, but there was a program that I honestly thought was going to be somewhere in my top 4/5 on my ROL - during the dinner I was told by a resident that I wasn't allowed to sit at their table because his/her bag was in the only open seat, while other residents asked me (almost judgingly) what other programs I was interviewing at and then proceeded to talk about all the top places they interviewed. After that night I knew they were not the right fit, and I ranked that program last even though the interview day was great (I thought of not ranking it, but left it on only because of its reputation). These were my experiences and YMMV, but I am so happy that I went to all the interview dinners that I could. They helped me realize that at a certain point, reputation/prestige does not matter as much as fit and culture of a program. EtOH brings out the best and worst in people, so take advantage of that and mingle with your possible co-residents outside the hospital!

 

[gutonc]

Posting for another anon

School: Osteopathic
Step Scores: USMLE 220s, 240s; COMLEX 580s, 580s; PE = Passed
Grades: Preclinical mix of A's and Bs, Clinical mostly A's
Research: Some bench with no pubs following. 1 poster presentation, 1 case published in little known journal
AOA: Nope, including the DO version
Rank: Top 1/3
Interview Invites: UMass, UC Northshore, Christ Advocate, CU-Denver, St. Joes Denver, CCF, KU, OU, Arkansas, Maine Med, Univ of AZ Tucson and South, UNM, Prov-Portland, UCSF-Fresno, Banner Good Sam. A few others that I can't remember.

Rejections: Lots, applied to about 50


Matched (+ # on ROL): #1 UNM!


Advice: Apply early and broadly. I did more than one sub-I/away partly to get my name out there and partly to get a look at the programs.
- Definitely take USMLE I and II. Lots of comments about my USMLE scores and never about COMLEX.
- Go to dinners/outings, if convenient, and enjoy yourself. Talk to residents and try to get vibe of program, which is a bit harder to do during the interview day because it's much more regimented.
- Don't get hung up on any one part of your app and try and be well-rounded.
- I enjoyed the traveling to different places but burn out definitely sets in. Spread out the interviews if possible.
- Of course, this is all anecdotal and how I, personally, approached the application process and interviews.

 

[TheTao]

In many ways. this thread is like a "Johnson" contest. People with "small ones" ie step scores, just won't post.

And no mention of the field folks matched into for a Match thread? Yeah, definitely a "Big Johnson err..... Step Scores" contest, ROTF:!!!

 

[235009]

In many ways. this thread is like a "Johnson" contest. People with "small ones" ie step scores, just won't post.

And no mention of the field folks matched into for a Match thread? Yeah, definitely a "Big Johnson err..... Step Scores" contest, ROTF:!!!

Are you lost? This is the IM board. Everyone matched in IM! It's even in the title of the thread.

Despite your confusion you do have a point. People who are happy with their matches or want to show off or brag are overrepresented

 

[TheTao]

Are you lost? This is the IM board. Everyone matched in IM! It's even in the title of the thread.

Despite your confusion you do have a point. People who are happy with their matches or want to show off or brag are overrepresented

I'm deep in the crevices of Advanced Stats/R programming HELL so f**k yes, I'm LOST and surfing different Match threads left me TOTALLY confused, ROTFL!!!!

 

[gutonc]

Are you lost? This is the IM board. Everyone matched in IM! It's even in the title of the thread.

Despite your confusion you do have a point. People who are happy with their matches or want to show off or brag are overrepresented

Which is why these threads (WAMC, Help Me Rank, Match, Etc) are all kind of a bulls*** waste. Nevermind the fact that the ratio of posts in this thread to the WAMC and other threads is like 50:1.

 

[Aequanimitatis]

Which is why these threads (WAMC, Help Me Rank, Match, Etc) are all kind of a bulls*** waste. Nevermind the fact that the ratio of posts in this thread to the WAMC and other threads is like 50:1.

I know you've been doing this for a long, long time but this is not true for a lot of people. To very many these are useful. I know I read through years worth of them to get an idea of what to expect.

 

[YankeeCandle1141]

There is a lot about this thread that could be better, but its still incredibly useful for me as a student about to apply IM.

 

[rd31]

bump!

 

[kuuj3307]

Few people who asked a lot of questions during application and interview season not posting on here. weak. I can say this thread from last year was really helpful for me. Pay it forward homies.

 

[gutonc]

Few people who asked a lot of questions during application and interview season not posting on here. weak. I can say this thread from last year was really helpful for me. Pay it forward homies.

If by "few" you mean "nearly every" then yes, I agree with you.

 

[235009]

If by "few" you mean "nearly every" then yes, I agree with you.

i feel like you positively reinforce that kind of behavior every year

 

[OslerDoc]

School: Top 10
Step Scores: 220 step 1, 230 step 2
Candidate: MD
Grades: Honors on everything
Research: Publications from college, several abstracts + symposium speaker + pending publication during med school
Rank: N/A
Interview Invites: JHH, BIDMC, Yale, Mayo, Mt Sinai, Northwestern, U Chicago, Cleveland Clinic, Temple, Jefferson, OHSU, Montefiore
Others: Non-US Citizen AMG requiring H1B visa + couples match with another non-US citizen AMG applying to a different field and requiring a H1B visa as well. Thus, only applied to programs that would offer a H1B visa to both of us (~25-30)

Rejections: MGH, BWH, UCSF, UW, etc

Matched (+ # on ROL): #1, JHH (Osler)

Advice:
- Admittedly, my step scores aren't great. I could have done better, but I was pretty sick of standardized tests at this point. My scores however prove that average step scores don't bar you from getting stellar invites
- I felt that my school's name + extremely strong letters definitely counted a lot towards obtaining an interview invite. My interviewers almost always mentioned specific phrases in my letters that grabbed their attention. I also worked really hard on interview preparation to make sure I made the best impression I could
- I did not feel that my non-US citizen status was a factor - all programs I interviewed at assured me that there would be no barrier to obtaining a H1B. I did however do a lot of legwork pre-application to find out which programs would offer a H1B
- I did not feel that couples matching was a factor since my wife is a much smarter person than I would ever be
- Because we were couples matching, after deciding which program to rank #1, we both sent #1 match emails to our respective PDs (on advice of our dean)
- Med school advice - work hard + more importantly, be a team player on your clerkships + research. Your preceptors will reward you with great letters, since they want to see you excel. Step back a bit from the rat race and enjoy your free time in med school before you start your life in the working world - I spent a lot of time in my first two years eating my way through the region, hiking, snowboarding, and appreciating life in general

 

[Aequanimitatis]

Few people who asked a lot of questions during application and interview season not posting on here. weak. I can say this thread from last year was really helpful for me. Pay it forward homies.

School: Top 10
Step Scores: 220 step 1, 230 step 2
Candidate: MD
Grades: Honors on everything
Research: Publications from college, several abstracts + symposium speaker + pending publication during med school
Rank: N/A
Interview Invites: JHH, BIDMC, Yale, Mayo, Mt Sinai, Northwestern, U Chicago, Cleveland Clinic, Temple, Jefferson, OHSU, Montefiore
Others: US-IMG requiring H1B visa + couples match with another US-IMG applying to a different field and requiring a H1B visa as well. Thus, only applied to programs that would offer a H1B visa to both of us (~25-30)

Rejections: MGH, BWH, UCSF, UW, etc

Matched (+ # on ROL): #1, JHH (Osler)

Advice:
- Admittedly, my step scores aren't great. I could have done better, but I was pretty sick of standardized tests at this point. My scores however prove that average step scores don't bar you from getting stellar invites
- I felt that my school's name + extremely strong letters definitely counted a lot towards obtaining an interview invite. My interviewers almost always mentioned specific phrases in my letters that grabbed their attention. I also worked really hard on interview preparation to make sure I made the best impression I could
- I did not feel that my US-IMG status was a factor - all programs I interviewed at assured me that there would be no barrier to obtaining a H1B. I did however do a lot of legwork pre-application to find out which programs would offer a H1B
- I did not feel that couples matching was a factor since my wife is a much smarter person than I would ever be
- Because we were couples matching, after deciding which program to rank #1, we both sent #1 match emails to our respective PDs (on advice of our dean)
- Med school advice - work hard + more importantly, be a team player on your clerkships + research. Your preceptors will reward you with great letters, since they want to see you excel. Step back a bit from the rat race and enjoy your free time in med school before you start your life in the working world - I spent a lot of time in my first two years eating my way through the region, hiking, snowboarding, and appreciating life in general

Fantastic, congrats!! The only confusion from above is your med school. I am assuming you came from a top 10 US medical school but were a non US citizen? If so you are not a US IMG but rather an AMG (who required an H1B). US IMGs are US citizens who opt to study in medical school outside of the US.

 

[OslerDoc]

Fantastic, congrats!! The only confusion from above is your med school. I am assuming you came from a top 10 US medical school but were a non US citizen? If so you are not a US IMG but rather an AMG (who required an H1B). US IMGs are US citizens who opt to study in medical school outside of the US.

You're correct - I've edited it to remove any confusion

 

[Aequanimitatis]

You're correct - I've edited it to remove any confusion

No worries, and a huge congrats to you and your wife!

 

[gutonc]

i feel like you positively reinforce that kind of behavior every year

Always happy to be of service.

 

[disorder]

some points for the future.

some programs (USC, UCDavis) actually screen out the top applicants knowing they won't rank them highly. kudos to them.
medicine is becoming more and more about that well-rounded applicant and not necessarily about the numbers (although still important). thus, advice on this board will grow increasing nebulous and broad stroked.

 

[235009]

some points for the future.

some programs (USC, UCDavis) actually screen out the top applicants knowing they won't rank them highly. kudos to them.
medicine is becoming more and more about that well-rounded applicant and not necessarily about the numbers (although still important). thus, advice on this board will grow increasing nebulous and broad stroked.

ALL programs try, for the most part to interview applicants who will rank them. A PDs worst nightmare is having to scramble and the quickest way to make that nightmare come true is by interviewing too many over qualified applicants.

The numbers still matter a lot. Less so if you're coming from a top school.

 

[Eleftheria terrae]

Long-time lurker, rare poster. Many thanks to all the posts and tips the last few years. Hopefully I'll be better about sharing advice/answering questions as I go forward.

School: East coast allopathic, top 25
Step Scores: 220 step 1, 231 step 2
Candidate: MD, PhD

Grades: Honors except for neuro & psych
Research: Good research from PhD. 2nd author Nature paper, 3rd author on 2 others, 1st author paper was "submitted" on ERAS (finally got accepted after match day). Several posters, conferences, and presentations.
Rank: Top quarter
AOA: nope

Interview Invites: Yale, NYU, Tufts, OHSU (off waitlist), UCLA, UCSD, UCSF (off waitlist)

Rejections (in writing): MGH, BWH, BID, UW, Stanford, Cornell, Cedars-Sinai, UPenn,
Rejections (never heard from): GWU, Georgetown, Mt. Sinai, Columbia, Brown

Matched (+ # on ROL): #2, UCSD

Advice:
- A lot of people told me it would be hard to get into West coast schools being a lifelong the East coaster. My only ties to the West were some cousins living out there and I just really wanted to give the West a try. Every interviewer I spoke with totally understood me. It really didn't seem like much of a road block
- It does seem like students are applying to more and more IM programs per cycle. Part of me thinks this is unnecessary and just makes it harder for people to interview where they would fit well even if they don't have the pedigree/grades/letters that suggest it. Perhaps this is the wrong forum to express this, but we should probably limit the number of programs MS4s can apply to. It would just make things easier for all involved.
- That being said, apply where you actually want to go (or at least some place you would go provided you liked them on the interview). I just knew I didn't want to be in certain areas of the country and I didn't apply there. Sure I was sweating on Dec. 1 when I only had 5 interviews scheduled, but it honestly worked out for the best and I submitted my rank list knowing I would be delighted to attend any of the places I listed. To each his own.
- The best advice I got probably applies most to clerkship years, but I hope I can remember it throughout my medical career: Be Honest, Be Humble, Be Helpful (make everyone on your team look good), Be Inquisitive (specialists and teachers may be in a field that you don't find interesting, but they love it and they've agreed to teach you something about it--return the favor by trying to be interested), Roll with the punches (everyone has bad days and sometimes they don't act on their best behavior--understand it and forgive them, it's much better to release than to allow things to fester).

 

[MedcatHouse]

- It does seem like students are applying to more and more IM programs per cycle. Part of me thinks this is unnecessary and just makes it harder for people to interview where they would fit well even if they don't have the pedigree/grades/letters that suggest it. Perhaps this is the wrong forum to express this, but we should probably limit the number of programs MS4s can apply to. It would just make things easier for all involved.
- That being said, apply where you actually want to go (or at least some place you would go provided you liked them on the interview). I just knew I didn't want to be in certain areas of the country and I didn't apply there. Sure I was sweating on Dec. 1 when I only had 5 interviews scheduled, but it honestly worked out for the best and I submitted my rank list knowing I would be delighted to attend any of the places I listed. To each his own.
- The best advice I got probably applies most to clerkship years, but I hope I can remember it throughout my medical career: Be Honest, Be Humble, Be Helpful (make everyone on your team look good), Be Inquisitive (specialists and teachers may be in a field that you don't find interesting, but they love it and they've agreed to teach you something about it--return the favor by trying to be interested), Roll with the punches (everyone has bad days and sometimes they don't act on their best behavior--understand it and forgive them, it's much better to release than to allow things to fester).

Hey, thanks for posting and congrats!

Regarding the first stuff in bold: What? How would you go about doing this? Only limit the students that have the pedigree or everyone?

Regarding the second: This is exactly why "we" shouldn't limit the number of programs students can apply to AND why, for the most part, we shouldn't limit ourselves (geographically or otherwise). Yeah, you were delighted with all those programs, they are great, but you also matched. You had the 3rd year grades, PhD, pubs, the name of your school behind you, personality, etc . How delighted would someone be if they had 7 programs in the ROL and dipped down all the way to SOAP?

 

[Eleftheria terrae]

Regarding the first stuff in bold: What? How would you go about doing this? Only limit the students that have the pedigree or everyone?

You had the 3rd year grades, PhD, pubs, the name of your school behind you, personality, etc . How delighted would someone be if they had 7 programs in the ROL and dipped down all the way to SOAP?

So I think all students should be subject to the same limit. I don't know what that number is, but there's got to be a sweet spot where programs feel significantly less pressured/overwhelmed and therefore have the time to review the applications they do receive and interview students that have selected them to some extent and who are invested in them.

It would decrease the cost of applying and maybe instead of going to 17 interviews that someone later realizes she shouldn't have gone on people will just go where they are actually good matches and then maybe rank lists and The Match will be orders of magnitude less stressful.

I just see this cycle where students applying to college/med school/residency hear increasingly dire stories of the "tough application environment" so they apply to more schools to be "safer" but then the schools just have more uncertainty and the numbers look more selective so the next generation thinks things are even harder and the cycle repeats itself. Don't amplify the cycle, break the cycle.

 

[Aequanimitatis]

So I think all students should be subject to the same limit. I don't know what that number is, but there's got to be a sweet spot where programs feel significantly less pressured/overwhelmed and therefore have the time to review the applications they do receive and interview students that have selected them to some extent and who are invested in them.

It would decrease the cost of applying and maybe instead of going to 17 interviews that someone later realizes she shouldn't have gone on people will just go where they are actually good matches and then maybe rank lists and The Match will be orders of magnitude less stressful.

I just see this cycle where students applying to college/med school/residency hear increasingly dire stories of the "tough application environment" so they apply to more schools to be "safer" but then the schools just have more uncertainty and the numbers look more selective so the next generation thinks things are even harder and the cycle repeats itself. Don't amplify the cycle, break the cycle.

I understand what you are saying and across the board have heard that the log jam is happening at the top tier med schools where more and more applicants into IM are way overapplying.

The problem with the bolded is that there is an inherent unfairness to this proposal. It comes from the fact that some are applying out of the HMS, Penn, Stanford type schools and others from relatively unknown commodities. This in a field that is unfortunately particularly elitist.

There should be another resolution to this positive feedback cycle you mention but that's not the answer.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I understand what you are saying and across the board have heard that the log jam is happening at the top tier med schools where more and more applicants into IM are way overapplying.

The problem with the bolded is that there is an inherent unfairness to this proposal. It comes from the fact that some are applying out of the HMS, Penn, Stanford type schools and others from relatively unknown commodities. This in a field that is unfortunately particularly elitist.

There should be another resolution to this positive feedback cycle you mention but that's not the answer.

I have three major problems (two practical, one philosophical) with the idea of limiting # of applications or interviews.

1. In general, limiting applicants' choice and power in this already legislated process is not a good thing. Many people end up surprised by a program on the interview day and rank it highly, whereas under some arbitrary cap they may not have even ended up interviewing there.

2. There will not be a sweet spot or magic number. Any limit low enough to meaningfully impact the interview process (i.e. to reduce over-interviewing and redistribute interviews) will hurt a subset of applicants. This would make couples matching near impossible. People who are on the border for competitive specialties would have some really difficult choices to make about reaching for the stars and not matching or bailing out and using their precious interview spots on some backup specialties.

3. (Philosophical) At the heart of it you're talking about an approach that hurts the best candidates. If I've earned an interview at all of the programs I've applied to based on the programs' review of my application, who are you to say that I can't go on 15 interviews if I want to? Yeah I'm probably not going to match at number 14 on my rank list (but maybe I will - it's happened to people on this site many times), but it's my choice of how to spend my time and money.***

***This is an arbitrary use of first person perspective; not meaning to say I'm the best literally.

 

[YankeeCandle1141]

If programs were forced to publish an honest range of Step scores etc that they rank/match, then this would be practical.

Right now the only way i can gauge where I stand on the competitive scale is through THIS THREAD. Thats why people apply to 20+ programs. There is literally zero information other than freida (lol) and SDN

 

[gutonc]

Publishing some arbitrary hard range isn't in the programs' interests.

Nor the applicants'.

 

[YankeeCandle1141]

Publishing some arbitrary hard range isn't in the programs' interests.

Of course not. Limiting the number of applications I can send out isnt in my best interest. Thats why I dont think you could limit applications. I cant apply to a limited number of places that I may not even get interviews at. The only way it could work is if I knew where to apply

 

[MrGrrrMonster]

This may be horribly wrong, but it seems from my view that the burden should (and is for the most part) on the programs ability to screen an enormous number of candidates. I can think of 2 programs (notably WashU and Mayo) that seem to interview a larger amount of candidates than other programs without too much of a problem. I don't think the burden should be on the student to decide where they are a potential successful match. If a student wants to apply to a program that they know they are a stretch for, then the more power to them.

It would seem to be best that the top programs expand their capabilities at screening applicants/ offering interviews/ actually interviewing. I don't know if this is possible, but I would presume this would be a good problem to have for these programs.

 

[gutonc]

Screening applicants is easy, interviewing them is a hassle and costs money. Not that much, let's just throw out $100/applicant as a reasonable estimate for the sake of argument. Lots of programs can do it for $20/applicant, plenty more will spend $200. So $100 is a good starting point. The average estimate is that you need to interview 10x the number of spots you have. So if you've got a 30 person intern class, you need to interview 300 people and spend $30K to do so. Doesn't seem like that much money (especially compared to what it costs for applicants to interview) but it is when you consider that this is money that has to come from nowhere. So limiting interviews (within reason) makes sense for individual programs.

 

[MrGrrrMonster]

Screening applicants is easy, interviewing them is a hassle and costs money. Not that much, let's just throw out $100/applicant as a reasonable estimate for the sake of argument. Lots of programs can do it for $20/applicant, plenty more will spend $200. So $100 is a good starting point. The average estimate is that you need to interview 10x the number of spots you have. So if you've got a 30 person intern class, you need to interview 300 people and spend $30K to do so. Doesn't seem like that much money (especially compared to what it costs for applicants to interview) but it is when you consider that this is money that has to come from nowhere. So limiting interviews (within reason) makes sense for individual programs.

Great point. I didn't think of it from a cost perspective. It would seem then that simply screening is simple enough and "fix" the problems noted above. This would avoid limiting the number of programs a person could apply to, and also handing out precious interview spots ( which I realize is what is currently happening ha ha!). In my opinion, not everything can be perfect for everyone (myself included. I didn't get interviews at some competitive programs that I thought I had a decent chance at), but the system appears to work fairly well as is...

 

[YankeeCandle1141]

You wouldnt have to screen applicants if you published a firm minimum requirement. I would be much more targeted with applications if there was a way to know where I stand.

Currently, I have to blanket my region with applications and see where I get interviewed. I dont know what is a reach, and I dont know what is a safety. SDN is ridiculous with these made up "tiers", and programs keep all their data to themselves.