Official ABIM Exam/study tools thread!

[jacksparrow82]

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let me give a simple example: i spent a fair amount of time learning to recognize dermatologic conditions. what i didn't think to do is focus on their descriptions. all the derm conditions, and even immunology questions were without photographs and based on description alone.

Just finished today. I felt the same way about a number of things like this. Dermatological conditions described in a slightly different way then the review material and no pictures. Frustrating to say the least. There were also a lot of things that had diagnosis focused questions in the review material, but the exam asked about treatment options and not just diagnosis. There were definitely some easy/give-me questions. There were definitely some out of left field questions. The vast majority of them though I were questions where I just wasn't quite sure what the answer was, but I had it narrowed down to just two choices and basically had to flip a coin.
What kills me is that I'll never know what I actually got right or wrong. I know of a few that I looked up during my breaks that I got wrong and a couple that I think I got right. But, other than that I feel like it's a big question mark at this point.

Over all I think MKSAP was a good representation of the exam, but it's important to take the MKSAP questions one step further and make sure that you know treatment, diagnosis, complications, etc even if MKSAP only asks about one. And I think it's important to test yourself on different ways that the same topic can be presented (like the description vs picture comment above).
If I were to need to retake it, I think I would have a better idea of how to prepare a little more thoroughly. There are just some things you need to memorize cold and quiz yourself on over and over again from all different angles. I'll definitely do a second qbank next time just for the exposure to different descriptions and such.

 

[CDI]

Took it yesterday. Got my @ss handed to me. UWorld as a primary study tool can definitely prepare you well for it. Key is to use it to learn and not to judge how well you’re doing. Awesome Review books a good read for it as well.

As for the test, many questions where in clinical practice multiple choices are blatantly correct. Screening questions where the sole purpose is to trip you up (when these are available at the click of a finger (or chart) to you in everyday practice). Ununusual presentations of derm & rheum and where you’re left guessing. And of course plenty of zebras which we’ll never see, except maybe some rare case report article.

Test felt heavily outpatient based. Makes you wonder if IM in-patient focused programs should just be splitting up and doing the hospitalist boards.

 

[jacksparrow82]

Test felt heavily outpatient based. Makes you wonder if IM in-patient focused programs should just be splitting up and doing the hospitalist boards.

Unfortunately you have to be ABIM certified to sit for the Hospitalist boards (I believe), which is why no one takes it. I'd gladly sit for a hospital based board exam if it were offered as an alternative. ABIM is powerful to let that happen though.

 

[JP2740]

So when should we expect to get our scores?

 

[jacksparrow82]

So when should we expect to get our scores?

All we know is "within 3 months of the last day of testing" Which was yesterday. So it might not happen until Thanksgiving. In years past it's been as early as the first or second week of October though. Last year, 2017, they were released around Oct 23 (according to this thread).

 

[JP2740]

All we know is "within 3 months of the last day of testing" Which was yesterday. So it might not happen until Thanksgiving. In years past it's been as early as the first or second week of October though. Last year, 2017, they were released around Oct 26 (according to this thread).

Isn’t that crazy how long it takes. God I can’t wait to say bye to IM forever

 

[jacksparrow82]

Isn’t that crazy how long it takes. God I can’t wait to say bye to IM forever

Yes, completely absurd. It looks like it's at least a 2 month wait so we can at least relax for the next 6 weeks or so. Then, we'll all start freaking out around mid-october wondering when they will be released. If you read back through this thread, the week of Oct 23-26 was pure torture for everyone on here. Some people get their results days before others with no reasonable explanation as to why. So, lot's of people who had to wait the longest had all kinds of extra anxiety surrounding it because they thought it was a sign they had failed.

If and when I pass, I am throwing a big party. I'd like to say I'll be done with ABIM forever as well, because I plan on being FI before I need to retake it again, but 10 years is a long time so I can't predict what I'll do at that point. But, I'm definitely not wasting my time or money with the MOC BS. I'll wait 10 years and see how I feel, how much money I have in the bank, then decide.

 

[JP2740]

Lol I threw two parties back to back the last 2 days after being done with this ****. I’m in my fellowship and coming home doing mksap questions was such a challenge. I need to get back to normal and stop partying though, wayyyy too tired during the day lol

 

[butterflystroke]

Took it yesterday. Got my @ss handed to me. UWorld as a primary study tool can definitely prepare you well for it. Key is to use it to learn and not to judge how well you’re doing. Awesome Review books a good read for it as well.

As for the test, many questions where in clinical practice multiple choices are blatantly correct. Screening questions where the sole purpose is to trip you up (when these are available at the click of a finger (or chart) to you in everyday practice). Ununusual presentations of derm & rheum and where you’re left guessing. And of course plenty of zebras which we’ll never see, except maybe some rare case report article.

Test felt heavily outpatient based. Makes you wonder if IM in-patient focused programs should just be splitting up and doing the hospitalist boards.

what i also did with the uworld qbank was every time i came across a diagram of any kind in the explanations i saved it as a flashcard. over all i wound up saving 680 flash cards on uworld which were quite helpful in the final days.

 

[butterflystroke]

Just finished today. I felt the same way about a number of things like this. Dermatological conditions described in a slightly different way then the review material and no pictures. Frustrating to say the least. There were also a lot of things that had diagnosis focused questions in the review material, but the exam asked about treatment options and not just diagnosis. There were definitely some easy/give-me questions. There were definitely some out of left field questions. The vast majority of them though I were questions where I just wasn't quite sure what the answer was, but I had it narrowed down to just two choices and basically had to flip a coin.
What kills me is that I'll never know what I actually got right or wrong. I know of a few that I looked up during my breaks that I got wrong and a couple that I think I got right. But, other than that I feel like it's a big question mark at this point.

Over all I think MKSAP was a good representation of the exam, but it's important to take the MKSAP questions one step further and make sure that you know treatment, diagnosis, complications, etc even if MKSAP only asks about one. And I think it's important to test yourself on different ways that the same topic can be presented (like the description vs picture comment above).
If I were to need to retake it, I think I would have a better idea of how to prepare a little more thoroughly. There are just some things you need to memorize cold and quiz yourself on over and over again from all different angles. I'll definitely do a second qbank next time just for the exposure to different descriptions and such.

i think mksap17 questions was too simplistic and an exceedingly poor source for this exam. i hope they do a better job with mksap18 that's coming out soon. otherwise mksap will lose its relevance with regards to abim board prep. i feel that if you only used the mksap questions, you'd probably fail. the board basics book however is ABSOLUTELY indispensable imho. but at 400 densely packed pages, it's not a book that can be mastered without a significant time investment. i must confess over the past couple of days, i have been waking up in the middle of the night thinking about questions. what's odd is that i did so many questions before the test, i kind of blurred the test questions with the practice questions.

 

[JP2740]

i think mksap17 questions was too simplistic and an exceedingly poor source for this exam. i hope they do a better job with mksap18 that's coming out soon. otherwise mksap will lose its relevance with regards to abim board prep. i feel that if you only used the mksap questions, you'd probably fail. the board basics book however is ABSOLUTELY indispensable imho. but at 400 densely packed pages, it's not a book that can be mastered without a significant time investment. i must confess over the past couple of days, i have been waking up in the middle of the night thinking about questions. what's odd is that i did so many questions before the test, i kind of blurred the test questions with the practice questions.

All I did was MKSAP 17 and all my co-fellows and friends except 1 who did MKSAP and uworld. All felt confident they passed although not confident they did. I’ll let you know if that changes when we get our scores but I would not spread that MKSAP 17 alone = failure.

 

[Server10]

i think mksap17 questions was too simplistic and an exceedingly poor source for this exam. i hope they do a better job with mksap18 that's coming out soon. otherwise mksap will lose its relevance with regards to abim board prep. i feel that if you only used the mksap questions, you'd probably fail. the board basics book however is ABSOLUTELY indispensable imho. but at 400 densely packed pages, it's not a book that can be mastered without a significant time investment. i must confess over the past couple of days, i have been waking up in the middle of the night thinking about questions. what's odd is that i did so many questions before the test, i kind of blurred the test questions with the practice questions.

All I did was MKSAP 17 and all my co-fellows and friends except 1 who did MKSAP and uworld. All felt confident they passed although not confident they did. I’ll let you know if that changes when we get our scores but I would not spread that MKSAP 17 alone = failure.

I actually agree that MKSAP was definitely not the ideal prep resource, as far as the questions go. I feel like as far as learning the material it is a valuable tool and gives a nice summary of major concepts. But the style of questions in my opinion were too basic/straight forward and not an accurate representation of many of the actual board questions (a decent percentage of the actual test questions were obviously easy gimme questions, not referring to those). If I end up having to retake the test, I would use board basics to study/review concepts, MKSAP questions to get a nice summary/overview of major testable concepts, but UWorld questions to simulate and get practice with actual board style questions.

The actual test questions gave a lot of clues that point towards multiple answer choices, and you have to know the diagnosis well enough to differentiate between the choices and pick the right answer. Whereas in the MKSAP question bank, I felt like all the question stem clues were pointing to one and only one answer choice (so if you knew the general concept, the question itself wouldn't trip you up).

Board basics is definitely money - pretty much mostly 90+ % of everything in the exam could be found in there. But of course, it's 400+ pages of material, so I would expect that. I think the trick is to focus in on the points highlighted in yellow, the "don't be tricked" points, and major diagnosis/treatment facts. Don't try to memorize everything in all of the tables - just skim over those and absorb what you can.

Overall, I'm praying that I pass this exam, but if I don't, I feel like I have a solid understanding of the material and how to prepare for next year. Good luck to all.

 

[JerseyBoy406]

spent 5 months studying for this exam. did 5000 questions, including mksap 17 (scored 68% first round, 88% on second round), uworld (55% first round, 70% second round), and medstudy (76% first round, didn't repeat because i didn't think it was worth repeating). just to cover my bases i read BB4 4 times. i also read medstudy cover to cover once (but couldn't read it more, because it was way too dense). i even watched the medstudy DVDs from last year twice. i honestly came out of the exam today thinking i may have studied for a different test. i honestly would be surprised if i passed today, and if i do it will be by the very skin covering my teeth.

Completely agree. What the **** text did I just take. Felt I was playing Medical Jeopardy. ABIM sucks.

 

[JerseyBoy406]

This is truly embarrassing. I just took ABIM Initial Certification exam yesterday. This is not the first time I took this test. I am frustrated because I feel that I am just not able to pass this test. I never did well on in-service either. I passed exams during med school in one shot.

Quite frankly, I think I am a decent clinician. During my meeting with my program director during residency - she looked at my in-service and commented how there is a huge disconnect between my clinical practice (as a resident at that time) and my test score.

I am not the type that loathes ABIM exam. I do think it really does help one to become a better clinician and sets a standard.

Previously when I took this exam, honestly, I just didn't prepare well for various reasons. But this time I did. I tried my best, spent a long time studying. I made my family sacrifice for my study. I did mostly MKSAP 17 - both the board basics and MKSAP 17 Qbank.

I cannot begin to explain what my problems are. I feel like I cannot remember much of the minute details. I also think when I see the questions on actual ABIM exam, it seems so confusing, many answers choices can be potential answers. I feel that no amount of question bank or study can prepare me for the questions I see on ABIM. I don't think the board review such as Mayo Clinic videos help to prepare for the actual exam.

Fundamentally, perhaps there is a knowledge gap on my part - that's probably partially the reason for my poor ABIM performance. Topics such as PFTs, heart murmur etc - I don't think I have clear comprehension. But beyond that - there are so many nitty gritty detail they ask on the exam. I see those questions and I am like how in the world people remember/ know all these details.

If I don't pass this year, I wanna try again next year. If you hear desperation and frustration in my voice, you would be right. I don't wanna sit in that room in front of the computer for 8 hours again and feel how lost I am in reading those questions and answer choices.

Thank you for any constructive feedback.

I’m in the same boat. Took exam a few times before. Last year studied MKSAP 17 all the way through and missed passing by 2 lousy points! Felt last years test was pretty good though. This year, did repeat of mksap AND added Medstudy. Took nearly 2 months off to study. Felt pretty confident, until I got in the exam. Every question seemed to have 3 possible answers on first reading. Then could get it to 2. Felt I was playing Medical Jeopardy!! As my dad would say, ‘I’m thinking of a word, what is it?’ You say ‘blue’ and he says ‘wrong, it’s cat’... Can’t believe the crap they were asking! Things I’ve never seen, and I’ve been a doc for a long time. Very few questions on everyday medicine. Questions that were meant to trip you up and confuse you. I was first one done and went nearly to the end of every session. Honestly have to say this was the worst exam I’ve ever taken. No relevance to clinical medicine. I’m pretty sure passing is 70%, and if it is, I doubt half the people passed. Does anyone else think they could be more straightforward and test big topics???

 

[butterflystroke]

I’m in the same boat. Took exam a few times before. Last year studied MKSAP 17 all the way through and missed passing by 2 lousy points! Felt last years test was pretty good though. This year, did repeat of mksap AND added Medstudy. Took nearly 2 months off to study. Felt pretty confident, until I got in the exam. Every question seemed to have 3 possible answers on first reading. Then could get it to 2. Felt I was playing Medical Jeopardy!! As my dad would say, ‘I’m thinking of a word, what is it?’ You say ‘blue’ and he says ‘wrong, it’s cat’... Can’t believe the crap they were asking! Things I’ve never seen, and I’ve been a doc for a long time. Very few questions on everyday medicine. Questions that were meant to trip you up and confuse you. I was first one done and went nearly to the end of every session. Honestly have to say this was the worst exam I’ve ever taken. No relevance to clinical medicine. I’m pretty sure passing is 70%, and if it is, I doubt half the people passed. Does anyone else think they could be more straightforward and test big topics???

If I had to do it over again, I would read and reread, and then reread some more the board basics book. I wouldn’t touch any other source. From that book I would do my own flash cards and reread those a dozen times or more. I would get a six month subscription of uworld and keep doing blocks of 60 questions until you’ve gotten every single question correct. I would start early. Like in January. In the last 30 days I would do the flash cards over and over again. You should have no fewer than 3000 flash cards. This exam can be conquered. The question really is are you willing and able to make the required effort and investment.

 

[JerseyBoy406]

If I had to do it over again, I would read and reread, and then reread some more the board basics book. I wouldn’t touch any other source. From that book I would do my own flash cards and reread those a dozen times or more. I would get a six month subscription of uworld and keep doing blocks of 60 questions until you’ve gotten every single question correct. I would start early. Like in January. In the last 30 days I would do the flash cards over and over again. You should have no fewer than 3000 flash cards. This exam can be conquered. The question really is are you willing and able to make the required effort and investment.

Well here’s the thing: last year the exam was a lot of mksap 17, this year it didn’t seem so much. It seemed more like random trivia and minutia that had no bearing on you taking care of patients well or being a prudent practitioner of medicine. I just think the exam should reflect a typical practice-many questions on DM, HTN, dyslipiemia, CV diseases, etc, but fewer on zebras and rare things. Also, how many IMs are going to manage, for exampl, RA or Lupus alone without consultation help? That would be practically malpractice if it goes badly and you wouldn’t have a medical/legal leg to stand on. I just don’t see this exam as being reflective of you being a good doctor.

 

[mellyx21]

Just took the ABIM last week. I'm not the greatest test taker, so during residency I took board prep and ITE preparation quite seriously, especially since our residency didactics were not the greatest. Like with medicine, I think if you approach board prep as a marathon rather than a sprint, the test can be doable and less formidable. I approached test prep with a healthy amount of fear of failing which motivated my studying.
I obviously don't know my score yet, and everyone's different in their methods of learning/studying, but this is what I did myself and what worked for me:

- I read the first page of the ABIM content (posted online) to understand the topic breakdown by percentage, so that way I'd know which topics would be most heavily tested (cards, GI, heme/onc, etc.).
- I slowly read through MKSAP (YES, ALL of it!) and did all the questions during my first two years of residency. Whenever I encountered a topic clinically, or if I were on a particular rotation, I would read the corresponding topic in MKSAP. That way I at least had some familiarity with the overall content of the exam. I personally found that MKSAP was easier to read and digest, and flowed better than MedStudy-- but once again, it doesn't matter which resource you use as long as you stick with it. I DO think it's worth going through MKSAP content and NOT just the question bank (some people might be able to get away with just doing that if they have a strong background) but the questions only test a small portion of the actual content!
- I used ITE reports from both years of my residency to identify my weakest areas. It also helped me identify areas that I was good at so I didn't devote as much studying to those areas.
- My residency program paid for a subscription to the NEJM Question Bank which I did find helpful. The length and style of NEJM questions is closer to the ABIM than to MKSAP questions IMO. The only thing that's kind of annoying is that their interface uses spaced repetition, so they'll keep cycling through the questions that you got wrong. The two practice blocks/tests (which I did the week prior to my exam) were pretty clutch and I saw 1-2 questions almost verbatim on my test.
- I attended the MedStudy Internal Medicine Accelerated Review course which was fantastic and on point. That definitely helped grab me a lot of additional questions that I would've missed otherwise. I think the Review Course is better than the books IMO which I found to be too dense and overly detailed.
- Lastly, I read through BB3 in the last 1-2 months prior to the test and repeated all the MKSAP questions. Since I was working and didn't have all day to devote my studying to, I created a study schedule. I split up my remaining days proportionally to the topic breakdown by percentage (for example, I spent 15% of my days on Cardiology, 9% on GI, etc.). I took written notes on things I did NOT know or "must memorize" facts for each section, then reviewed this all at the end.

This plan obviously works only if you START EARLY and don't procrastinate. I'm much better at studying 1-2 hours max a day than trying to jam in 8-10 hours at a time. It was kind of overkill, but I walked away feeling that it was a fair test and at least knowing what most questions' "objectives" were and what they were trying to trick people on. Good luck you all!

 

[Thefeeshes]

Joined just to post on this thread and see if anyone else is suffering with serious post-test anxiety or... just me? Sigh.

 

[jacksparrow82]

Joined just to post on this thread and see if anyone else is suffering with serious post-test anxiety or... just me? Sigh.

Not too bad so far. Since I took my test on Aug 28, I've had to deal with my wife getting severe preeclampsia and delivering early, still with a newborn in the hospital (but doing well). So, my mind has been on more important things. But, I think come mid-October, I'll be starting to get anxious about the results being released.

 

[butterflystroke]

since taking the exam i get up every night, in the middle of the night, in a cold sweat. the stress of failing this beast a few times, and the stress of absolutely needing to pass this time is agonizing. this time around, i put in more effort than all steps of the usmle COMBINED. so if i don't pass this time, i don't think i ever will. these next 3-4 weeks can't pass fast enough, yet i know i will feel and be tortured by every second of it. good luck every one.

 

[DrMetal]

- I attended the MedStudy Internal Medicine Accelerated Review course which was fantastic and on point. That definitely helped grab me a lot of additional questions that I would've missed otherwise. I think the Review Course is better than the books IMO which I found to be too dense and overly detailed.

At what point did you take this course? Would you advise taking it sooner than later? Thanks for the post.

 

[Thefeeshes]

since taking the exam i get up every night, in the middle of the night, in a cold sweat. the stress of failing this beast a few times, and the stress of absolutely needing to pass this time is agonizing. this time around, i put in more effort than all steps of the usmle COMBINED. so if i don't pass this time, i don't think i ever will. these next 3-4 weeks can't pass fast enough, yet i know i will feel and be tortured by every second of it. good luck every one.

I appreciate your honesty. Just know you’re not alone. Hoping for the best for you this time around!

 

[jacksparrow82]

since taking the exam i get up every night, in the middle of the night, in a cold sweat. the stress of failing this beast a few times, and the stress of absolutely needing to pass this time is agonizing. this time around, i put in more effort than all steps of the usmle COMBINED. so if i don't pass this time, i don't think i ever will. these next 3-4 weeks can't pass fast enough, yet i know i will feel and be tortured by every second of it. good luck every one.

I can understand the extreme pressure this test places on us. It's absolutely insane that our jobs are tied to this test. It's wrong really and for the reasons you're highlighting above. There's no reason we should have to fear losing our jobs and our ability to earn a living just because of a multiple choice exam. But regardless, try to stay calm. Think positive thoughts as much as possible. 98% of people end up passing eventually. If you have to change jobs for a year to attempt it again, then that's just what you have to do. Life throws us curve balls at times and we just have to roll with the punches. You will eventually pass this exam if you keep at it.
FWIW, if I don't pass this exam this year, I won't be able to practice with the company I've been with for the last 7 years. I'll have to take a new position with a different company. What's worse is I'll only have 1 more shot at taking it in 2019 if I don't pass this year. Which sucks, but at the same time, it's not the end of the world. I'll do what I have to do. It's my fault for dragging my feet on this test for the last few years, but I was really burnt out at my job and wasn't sure I even wanted to keep practicing at the time. So, I don't know if your situation is as dire as mine, but my point is you're not alone. This test is the definition of a high stakes exam. We're all sweating.

 

[DrMetal]

FWIW, if I don't pass this exam this year, I won't be able to practice with the company I've been with for the last 7 years. I'll have to take a new position with a different company. What's worse is I'll only have 1 more shot at taking it in 2019 if I don't pass this year. Which sucks, but at the same time, it's not the end of the world. I'll do what I have to do. It's my fault for dragging my feet on this test for the last few years, but I was really burnt out at my job and wasn't sure I even wanted to keep practicing at the time. So, I don't know if your situation is as dire as mine, but my point is you're not alone. This test is the definition of a high stakes exam. We're all sweating.

Not that it would be easy or desirable....but is it difficult to find a company/job that doesn't require board certification? There's gotta be jobs out there, I would think a lot, given the physician shortage...and especially if you're just general IM

 

[jacksparrow82]

Not that it would be easy or desirable....but is it difficult to find a company/job that doesn't require board certification? There's gotta be jobs out there, I would think a lot, given the physician shortage...and especially if you're just general IM

No it's not too difficult to find jobs. The problem is you just won't have as many options available being non board certified. You'll likely be stuck with less desirable locations/hospitals. Most of the hospitals in my city want board certified only. To practice as a hospitalist you have to be willing to drive outside the city. Even some of the smaller hospitals are starting to require it. It's scary as a hospitalist because if you can't get hospital privileges, you're out of work. There's always suboxone clinics or nursing homes, etc, but who wants that to be their only option?
Unfortunately, the physician shortage doesn't bother these hospitals all that much because they can always just hire more nurse practitioners. That's a big problem moving forward. Our jobs are being replaced by nurses already.

 

[DrMetal]

I’ve been lurking on SDN since my first year of med school and never posted, but the anxiety of this exam has prompted me to post.

Amen. The Board Certification is an extra credential, that we (physicians) have created for ourselves. It wasn't enough for use to graduate medical school, obtain a license, complete a residency....we had to make one extra credential, to up our own mojo. So why don't we create another level of board certification, called 'Elite Board Certification'? (renewable every year, and you take the test at a moment's notice, every year, without any preparation). Sound silly? I just made that up. That's how BC came to be.

 

[ProblieFailed]

As you can see by my name, I'm less than optimistic. I am a member of the Failed-Before Club. First time I took it, for 50% of the exam I was like..."what the ---- am I taking, what is this test, I'm lost". The other 50% was fair/familiar. This time, I know results aren't out yet, but 100% of the exam felt like "ok, I've seen this before/this is tricky but fair/I know exactly what this is". Literally, every question felt do-able. I changed my method a bit.

For my first attempt with this exam, I studied the "obvious" way, the way that worked for the USMLEs (all of which I did well on btw). I focused on high-yield material and thought about things in a logical way (most-likely Dx, next best step, etc). I did what I thought I had to. Used the old reliable UW, MKSAP, etc. Failed by 6 points.

This time, to avoid committing the "insane" act of repeating and expecting a different outcome, I came at it from a new angle. New study material (MedStudy and...wait for it...First Aid! Yup, THAT book series. Pretty impressive new edition.). MOST importantly, instead of focusing on high-yield material, I focused on the JUNK. All of the crap that you never see, you never deal with, the things that really don't help you on the floors, in the clinic, etc. The nitty-gritty of RTA. The mind-numbing details of rare rheum cases that we never see or don't deal with unless there's a rheum consult. The odd facts listed under all of heme/onc. Basically, I avoided reviewing what I already knew, I ignored the things I deal with every day. I focused on the CRAP. I focused on the last few lines of each topic that I used to gloss over because they're more or less irrelevant.

Now, as I said, results are pending. But I have never walked out of an exam thinking "wow, literally every question felt like fair game". Every single question on this year's ABIM felt fair to me. Did I fail? Of course I could have. Point being, however, if you want a fighting chance with this test, don't assume you're studying for something useful. Assume they're going to try to trick you with vindictive, almost sarcastic questions on simple material and out-of-left field RARE CRAP, and you'll have a fighting chance of at least feeling like you studied for the same test you were taking. I could almost hear the specialists sneering "ahhhhhh I'll trick this stupid internist with this one!!!" while I was clicking away.

I wish you all the best!!!

 

[Ivefailed]

I have been following this thread for over a year now but finally decided to sign up.

I see a lot of people in the same boat here with a lot of stress and disappointment. For board preparations in the past, assessment exams have worked as a good prediction tool for how well you will do on the real exam.

I haven't done a quarter of what some of you have, in terms of amount and time spent on studying, but my UW qbank percentile was reassuring to me. I would love to hear your numbers and thoughts on that while we are all waiting for this beast to die forever.

 

[Raryn]

Since it's getting to be that time of year again where people start asking, here is the updated table of the first reported results on SDN from the last decade or so:

2017: Monday, October 23 @ 1014am (results rolled out over about 4 days with no rhyme nor reason to the order)
2016: Saturday, October 15 @951 pm (snafu on the website as results rolled in over the next 12 hours or so)
2015: Thursday, October 8 @ 817AM
2014: Monday, October 6 @ 1059AM
2013: Monday, October 7 @ 323 AM (seriously)
2012: Thursday, October 4 @ 814 AM
2011: Wednesday, November 2 @ 1033 AM
Unable to find 2010, but it was prior to November 9
2009: Tuesday, October 20 @ 540PM

Basically, there's no way to predict when it will come out, so don't ask. Calling the ABIM will be useless. My only assertion is it's probably going to be out before the end of October, but even that isn't 100% (see 2011).

 

[jacksparrow82]

Basically, there's no way to predict when it will come out, so don't ask. Calling the ABIM will be useless..

Lol, you're totally right about that. I was looking back at one point and saw a post where someone said they called the abim and asked when they would be released and was told something like "scores are no where near release yet" and then a day later they were released.

 

[butterflystroke]

T minus 10 days to the results...

 

[Raryn]

T minus 10 days to the results...

Where did you get your crystal ball? Mine broke recently.

 

[butterflystroke]

Where did you get your crystal ball? Mine broke recently.

costco

 

[SVO2]

It definitely is a marathon of a test. Best wishes to everyone!

 

[JerseyBoy406]

I’ve been lurking on SDN since my first year of med school and never posted, but the anxiety of this exam has prompted me to post.

I took my initial cert ABIM a few weeks ago and have even obsessing over it since then. Unfortunately this is my second attempt. Last year I haven’t excuse for not passing, I completely blew off studying and tried to cram in a week. I figured a year as a hospitalist (I decided to wait a year after finishing residency to take it) and my base knowledge would be sufficient. NOPE!. I failed, miserably. Like comically bad. So this time around I used my tried and true methods of studying, which have served me well though all USMLE exams with excellent scores and first times passes on steps 1-3. 5 months of intensive review with med study and MKSAP. 6 hours per night on average (even after working all day in an uncomfortably busy hospitalist group). Thousands of practice questions, piles and piles of flash cards, walls covered in post it notes (even in the shower!!), and all of the medstudy lectures watched. Finally my test day came and I felt ready and prepared, albeit nervous. 8 hours later..... what exam did I even just take? Where were at the questions on screening guidelines, and colonoscopy stuff, all the infectious disease nuances I obsessed over?

Since then I have been struggling to remember questions to look up to see what I missed. I can’t remember much, it was all a blur. I just cannot believe I wasted so much time and cause myself so much stress for what may be a poor outcome. I am now just over 2 years out of residency, and my hospital requires us to be board certified within 5 years. I was looking forward to quitting my job and joining a better practice with board certification in hand, but I can’t help but to feel like that may not happen now. Very disappointing considering the amount of effort I put into preparation... along with lots of sleep deprivation and weight loss from stress.

This exam is an absolute disgrace. I will not give it the credit of “hard but fair”. No. It is an assortment of minutia and irrelevant fact recall. We torture ourselves to obtain this “coveted” Board Certification... but honestly, what does it really do for us? It is merely another expensive and time consuming hoop to jump through. We are licensed, trained, and experienced physicians. We should be lobbying much harder against the ABIM for a higher quality test that is more specific to what we do as internists.

Whether I passed or failed this exam this time around (a 50/50 chance by my calculations), I will stand by these statements.... and if I failed, I will most certainly not put myself through this again. It just isn’t worth it. I have read that some hospitals are accepting the alternative board certications, which I would certainly look into. I wish everyone the best of luck as we anxiously wait for our scores, so that we can be told if whether or not we are “good enough” to have this ridiculous distinction bestowed upon us.

God I couldn’t have put it any better than you did. I walked out and asked myself ‘What the **** was that?’ I can honestly say that there was no way I could have found any resource material that could have covered what they asked; AND more importantly, there was nothing on that exam that was truly representative of anything an Internist or Hospitalist sees every day.. Just an atrocious, poorly written, randomly stupid exam. Anyone else get lost in those stupid long stem questions?

 

[DrMetal]

God I couldn’t have put it any better than you did. I walked out and asked myself ‘What the **** was that?’ I can honestly say that there was no way I could have found any resource material that could have covered what they asked; AND more importantly, there was nothing on that exam that was truly representative of anything an Internist or Hospitalist sees every day.. Just an atrocious, poorly written, randomly stupid exam. Anyone else get lost in those stupid long stem questions?

I find this difficult to believe [don't get me wrong: I'm no fan of this test]. This seems to be the common reaction (post) of people who did not study in some organized manner, using some resourse (MKSAP, medstudy, whatever). What did you use and how much time did you put into it?

If you try to take this test cold, you're likely going to feel this way. [And it's a travesty that you can't take the test cold. Any practicing internist should be able to sit down, take this test and pass it with no preparation. If that's not possible, then there's something wrong with the test, not the internist....but it is what it is!]

 

[Ivefailed]

I find this difficult to believe [don't get me wrong: I'm no fan of this test]. This seems to be the common reaction (post) of people who did not study in some organized manner, using some resourse (MKSAP, medstudy, whatever). What did you use and how much time did you put into it?

If you try to take this test cold, you're likely going to feel this way. [And it's a travesty that you can't take the test cold. Any practicing internist should be able to sit down, take this test and pass it with no preparation. If that's not possible, then there's something wrong with the test, not the internist....but it is what it is!]

This exam is not to test your ability to be an internist. In what world the internists interprets the echo reports to determine if an aortic valve needs to be replaced based on the pressure gradient or decides what antiplatelet agent to use after PCI vs without PCI? I have never seen an internist in my life looking at the pathology slides to see if the findings are consistent with celiac disease vs microscopic colitis.

Regardless if I did well or not on my exam, to study for this test and nail it you have to be like Dr. House. You do the MRI, the biopsies, surgeries if needed and you also decide what chemotherapy to use after you resect what needs to be resected.

At the end of the day, we have internists who fail to manage diabetes and HTN.

Good luck to you all.

 

[DrMetal]

In what world the internists interprets the echo reports to determine if an aortic valve needs to be replaced based on the pressure gradient

Uhhh....we look at echo reports all the time, and decide to consult an invasive cardiologist if needed (the TTE alone does not trigger a cardiology consult, at least not in my home institution). That's fair game.

or decides what antiplatelet agent to use after PCI vs without PCI?

Uhhh....also fair game. You need to know these guidelines, not b/c you're the invasive cardiologist who will be starting the DAPT immediately after PCI, but you'll be the internist who sees the patient 1 year out and who'll have to decide whether or not to continue the DAPT.

never seen an internist in my life looking at the pathology slides to see if the findings are consistent with celiac disease vs microscopic colitis.

I do, but I'm a closet pathologist.

Anyway, you missed the point of my post. If you do absolutely nothing to prepare for this test, I think you're going to be in for a real shock....hence the common posts here about getting completely blind-sided by the test.

 

[butterflystroke]

Uhhh....we look at echo reports all the time, and decide to consult an invasive cardiologist if needed (the TTE alone does not trigger a cardiology consult, at least not in my home institution). That's fair game.


Uhhh....also fair game. You need to know these guidelines, not b/c you're the invasive cardiologist who will be starting the DAPT immediately after PCI, but you'll be the internist who sees the patient 1 year out and who'll have to decide whether or not to continue the DAPT.


I do, but I'm a closet pathologist.

Anyway, you missed the point of my post. If you do absolutely nothing to prepare for this test, I think you're going to be in for a real shock....hence the common posts here about getting completely blind-sided by the test.

i think it's important to consider that not every part of the united states has the same availability of subspecialty services. additionally the vast majority of things we as internists source out, really need not be. i personally prefer calling a subspecialist ONLY when i need a procedure done. we're supposed to be the smartest people in the room, not glorified referologists.

 

[Ivefailed]

No one said refer everything. The interventional cardiologist decides what antiplatelets to start and your job is to know when it's fine to stop it. You order a lymph node biopsy, the radiologist will do it, the pathologist will read it, and your job as an internist is to decide if you should call oncology based on the report. You can apply this to a lot of stuff the test on the exam.

You are missing the point of the stuff you will be doing vs others. I don't blame the people who are shocked because half of the exam is not about what you see and do everyday.

 

[jacksparrow82]

No one said refer everything. The interventional cardiologist decides what antiplatelets to start and your job is to know when it's fine to stop it. You order a lymph node biopsy, the radiologist will do it, the pathologist will read it, and your job as an internist is to decide if you should call oncology based on the report. You can apply this to a lot of stuff the test on the exam.

You are missing the point of the stuff you will be doing vs others. I don't blame the people who are shocked because half of the exam is not about what you see and do everyday.

I think the problem is the exam completely ignores the bread and butter subjects. For a test that is required to practice, it needs to be a fair representation of everyday internal medicine. The subjects we should be experts on arent even tested. I got nothing about oral diabetic medications, or timing of flu vaccines, or initiation of anti hypertensives, etc, etc. you know, the stuff we actually face every day. They should make sure we all know how to do the most important parts of our jobs first and foremost. Determining if someone has a tumor, we refer and the specialists decide what to do about it. Even when practicing in a rural location (which I do) we have specialists to refer to for these problems. No internist is going to decide chemo vs radiation after resection. We are going to have to know what to do with their anticoagulants prior to surgery or how to best manage their insulin after surgery, yet these important, basic concepts don’t show up on the test. It makes zero sense except when you consider the original purpose of this exam. It was designed to be something extra that someone could take if they wanted to impress their colleagues or market their private practice as better than the next. That’s why it traditionally tests only the zebra stuff and some subspecialty knowledge. Now that everyone is required to take it it should be changed to reflect the minimum standard knowledge base of an average internist. What’s happening now is people dont know the basics. They just know a few zebras.

 

[Raryn]

I think the problem is the exam completely ignores the bread and butter subjects. For a test that is required to practice, it needs to be a fair representation of everyday internal medicine. The subjects we should be experts on arent even tested. I got nothing about oral diabetic medications, or timing of flu vaccines, or initiation of anti hypertensives, etc, etc. you know, the stuff we actually face every day. They should make sure we all know how to do the most important parts of our jobs first and foremost. Determining if someone has a tumor, we refer and the specialists decide what to do about it. Even when practicing in a rural location (which I do) we have specialists to refer to for these problems. No internist is going to decide chemo vs radiation after resection. We are going to have to know what to do with their anticoagulants prior to surgery or how to best manage their insulin after surgery, yet these important, basic concepts don’t show up on the test. It makes zero sense except when you consider the original purpose of this exam. It was designed to be something extra that someone could take if they wanted to impress their colleagues or market their private practice as better than the next. That’s why it traditionally tests only the zebra stuff and some subspecialty knowledge. Now that everyone is required to take it it should be changed to reflect the minimum standard knowledge base of an average internist. What’s happening now is people dont know the basics. They just know a few zebras.

I took the test 2 years ago. There were a fair share of zebras on it, some of which I thought were reasonable to know (you need to know enough to pick up on condition X and figure out the initial labs and who to send the patient to) and others of which were a little off the wall. But in addition to those, I certainly had questions on diabetes management (according to my report I somehow got one of them wrong - still have no idea how), hypertension, fatty liver disease, COPD/asthma, etc. It was tough but fair. I think that's reflected in the fact that it had a 90% pass rate that year. And last year. And probably this year.

 

[DoubleBogey]

I took the test 2 years ago. There were a fair share of zebras on it, some of which I thought were reasonable to know (you need to know enough to pick up on condition X and figure out the initial labs and who to send the patient to) and others of which were a little off the wall. But in addition to those, I certainly had questions on diabetes management (according to my report I somehow got one of them wrong - still have no idea how), hypertension, fatty liver disease, COPD/asthma, etc. It was tough but fair. I think that's reflected in the fact that it had a 90% pass rate that year. And last year. And probably this year.

I agree, while my exam was difficult, I think to fail it required a either poor test-taking skills vs lack of some fundamental knowledge vs a combination of the two. There were not enough true zebras on the exam that if you missed them all to fail it. I do IM outpt and inpt Medicine and felt the exam was fair - I feel if the test were only to test the routine/day-to-day stuff there would need to be a higher % of correct answers needed in order to pass leaving less rm for error/more stress.
The exam isn’t fun, will continue to be a pain causing stress and loss of sleep.

 

[SoundBlock]

First time poster, long time lurker. I had to make a new handle because my previous one could identify me.

I took the boards this past August and I am also waiting for my results also.

There are a lot of discussions about zebras on the exam. I would be curious to know what people are considering zebras though, as I guess it can be a bit subjective. Are we talking about conditions such as TTP, DRESS, Transverse myelitis, or babesia infections? Or conditions such as Heydes syndrome, amyloid angiopathy, IPMN, or hyperfibrinolysis?

 

[SVO2]

Not sure I would put TTP, DRESS, Heydes or babesia in the zebra category.
But we all likely have different definition/examples of zebras.

 

[Ivefailed]

First time poster, long time lurker. I had to make a new handle because my previous one could identify me.

I took the boards this past August and I am also waiting for my results also.

There are a lot of discussions about zebras on the exam. I would be curious to know what people are considering zebras though, as I guess it can be a bit subjective. Are we talking about conditions such as TTP, DRESS, Transverse myelitis, or babesia infections? Or conditions such as Heydes syndrome, amyloid angiopathy, IPMN, or hyperfibrinolysis?

I would say the latter and I don't think there is many of those.

 

[rebbeca55]

Fingers crossed. Last year first batch was out end of sept/ oct 1st.

 

[Raryn]

Fingers crossed. Last year first batch was out end of sept/ oct 1st.

No. No it wasn't. It hasn't been Oct 8 or earlier for the last 2 years.

Again, to quote my table above, this is the first reported results for every given year (all data from SDN):

2017: Monday, October 23 @ 1014am (results rolled out over about 4 days with no rhyme nor reason to the order)
2016: Saturday, October 15 @951 pm (snafu on the website as results rolled in over the next 12 hours or so)
2015: Thursday, October 8 @ 817AM
2014: Monday, October 6 @ 1059AM
2013: Monday, October 7 @ 323 AM (seriously)
2012: Thursday, October 4 @ 814 AM
2011: Wednesday, November 2 @ 1033 AM
Unable to find 2010, but it was prior to November 9
2009: Tuesday, October 20 @ 540PM

 

[rebbeca55]

Ive seen my friend’s report email sent on Oct 5th, and i heard other colleague got results before that.


QUOTE="Raryn, post: 20365137, member: 201009"]No. No it wasn't. It hasn't been Oct 8 or earlier for the last 2 years.

Again, to quote my table above, this is the first reported results for every given year (all data from SDN):

2017: Monday, October 23 @ 1014am (results rolled out over about 4 days with no rhyme nor reason to the order)
2016: Saturday, October 15 @951 pm (snafu on the website as results rolled in over the next 12 hours or so)
2015: Thursday, October 8 @ 817AM
2014: Monday, October 6 @ 1059AM
2013: Monday, October 7 @ 323 AM (seriously)
2012: Thursday, October 4 @ 814 AM
2011: Wednesday, November 2 @ 1033 AM
Unable to find 2010, but it was prior to November 9
2009: Tuesday, October 20 @ 540PM[/QUOTE]

 

[Ivefailed]

Ive seen my friend’s report email sent on Oct 5th, and i heard other colleague got results before that.


QUOTE="Raryn, post: 20365137, member: 201009"]No. No it wasn't. It hasn't been Oct 8 or earlier for the last 2 years.

Again, to quote my table above, this is the first reported results for every given year (all data from SDN):

2017: Monday, October 23 @ 1014am (results rolled out over about 4 days with no rhyme nor reason to the order)
2016: Saturday, October 15 @951 pm (snafu on the website as results rolled in over the next 12 hours or so)
2015: Thursday, October 8 @ 817AM
2014: Monday, October 6 @ 1059AM
2013: Monday, October 7 @ 323 AM (seriously)
2012: Thursday, October 4 @ 814 AM
2011: Wednesday, November 2 @ 1033 AM
Unable to find 2010, but it was prior to November 9
2009: Tuesday, October 20 @ 540PM

[/QUOTE]

Sorry Rebecca but you are mistaken. Raryn numbers are accurate.