Don’t be so sure.
Challenge accepted!
…after I pass my specialty boards.
Don’t be so sure.
Can you have a chat with my husband then? This is what I keep telling him! He has an engineering degree from a great school and has been toiling in the same place with essentially menial bonuses and menial salary increases despite making 6 figures and I keep telling him - you can make so much more! he tells me no, this is what engineers make.I am a community physician in early 30’s. I attended an engineering school similar to Caltech or Harvey Mudd before attending medical school. It’s helpful to have trusted friends with high earning power so you can have frank discussions on investing for FI & social good. Anyways, of those I keep in touch with:
1. SF, software engineer at workplace productivity B2B company, $900k/year
2. SF, software engineer at FAANG, machine learning, $400k/year
3. SF, software engineer at FAANG, machine learning, $450k/year
4. Seattle, software engineer at FAANG, $450k/year
5. Seattle, software engineer at FAANG, $500k/year
6. Etc.
This doesn’t include acquaintances who are founders of tech companies that sold for $100m plus, or early employees of publicly traded companies. Their net worth is probably somewhere between $10m and $30m, and yes, they’re also in their early 30’s.
My acquaintances that are VP’s in high finance, partners at law firms, or biopharma folks seem like they do okay but the $/effort and upside do not compare to TECH. ibanking is the worst, horrible grunt work for unimaginative people.
Tech jobs do not have a high barrier to entry and there are very good, free or affordable resources to develop your technical skills. I am reasonably confident that if cancer disappeared tomorrow, or if the healthcare system was nationalized (kidding but not kidding), I could get an entry level job in tech paying $200k+ with 6 months of prep.
These are so much harder to get though. McKinsey, Bain, and Boston took maybe 5 students each from my school whereas most banks (except boutiques) take 30 each (if you factor in IB, S&T, equity research etc.)Undergrad who goes to top consulting firm makes about $90k with $10-20k bonus. Can advance to Associate partner in 5-6 years with salary plus bonus around $450-500k. No graduate degree; no MBA...just undergrad.
Those salaries seem high with the first being higher than a chunk of partners at the investment firm I work at currently. Of course I could be underestimating how much companies are paying to retain talent in SV/SF. I know Apple was giving engineers 175k bonuses to prevent attrition. Is this sustainable? I’m not sure. I do know that most equity holders will tolerate excessive bonuses when the market is irrationally exuberant, but are less willing if margins start decreasing or growth slows. High salaries are actually why buffet used to be opposed to buying stock in investment banking companies.Can you have a chat with my husband then? This is what I keep telling him! He has an engineering degree from a great school and has been toiling in the same place with essentially menial bonuses and menial salary increases despite making 6 figures and I keep telling him - you can make so much more! he tells me no, this is what engineers make.
Median income post graduation from my school is 55k so even the people making six figures right after are relatively rare. There is likely some confirmation bias (people who are convinced the average college student makes 100k post graduation will tend to focus on the right tailed outliers) and reporting bias (people who make more are more likely to tell other people what they’re making).Well, from the sounds of things, many of you and your “peers” are extremely privileged.
People in their 20’s making 6 figures are absolutely in the 99th percentile. It is very rare. If most of your peers are making that much money then you absolutely have a heavily skewed privileged social group, which of course isn’t a bad thing, but it’s not at all normal or expected.
I was born and raised in the most educated state in the country and not a single “peer” of mine is making that much, all are heavily educated and in their mid to late 20s. They’re either living with their parents, have several roommates or are recently married and are able to purchase a modest family home. But 6 figures? No. Not yet, anyway. I expect to see most settling into 6 figure territory by early/mid 30s though.
I wish some of you would be realistic about the financial landscape out there. Yes of course there are engineers able to swing 6 figures with a specific certification at 23 but it is NOT common and not realistic. If it was so quick and simple to attain these high paying jobs straight out of high school/undergrad then everyone would do it!! Everyone is not doing it because 1. They don’t have the same major connections (parents, family etc) 2. The quality of life trade off is abysmal 3. These six figure jobs for 19 year olds who learned coding over the summer are few and very far between.
Well, from the sounds of things, many of you and your “peers” are extremely privileged.
People in their 20’s making 6 figures are absolutely in the 99th percentile. It is very rare. If most of your peers are making that much money then you absolutely have a heavily skewed privileged social group, which of course isn’t a bad thing, but it’s not at all normal or expected.
I was born and raised in the most educated state in the country and not a single “peer” of mine is making that much, all are heavily educated and in their mid to late 20s. They’re either living with their parents, have several roommates or are recently married and are able to purchase a modest family home. But 6 figures? No. Not yet, anyway. I expect to see most settling into 6 figure territory by early/mid 30s though.
I wish some of you would be realistic about the financial landscape out there. Yes of course there are engineers able to swing 6 figures with a specific certification at 23 but it is NOT common and not realistic. If it was so quick and simple to attain these high paying jobs straight out of high school/undergrad then everyone would do it!! Everyone is not doing it because 1. They don’t have the same major connections (parents, family etc) 2. The quality of life trade off is abysmal 3. These six figure jobs for 19 year olds who learned coding over the summer are few and very far between.
I mean, the typical medical student is definitely not the typical college graduate. It's fair to compare medical students to grads going into finance, tech, etc. Not saying anyone in medical school can do the other high-paying jobs, but the talent is high enough that it's fairer to compare them with this group than the average college graduate.Median income post graduation from my school is 55k so even the people making six figures right after are relatively rare. There is likely some confirmation bias (people who are convinced the average college student makes 100k post graduation will tend to focus on the right tailed outliers) and reporting bias (people who make more are more likely to tell other people what they’re making).
The takeaway I’m getting from this thread is that there is a lot of variability in compensation in the tech and business fields, just as there is in medicine. I would bet that different types of “IT” are as different as orthopedic surgery is from psychiatry. In discussing the low-100’s jobs in other fields to the 300’s and above, are we sure we are not comparing apples to oranges?
Check out Epic Fail Systems on Twitter.Yo I just got a software dev job that pays me 110k. And this is in Wisconsin, not exactly the Bay Area!
Lol. I love how you know what company it is without even me telling you the name!Check out Epic Fail Systems on Twitter.
Critical view of a company failing everyone except shareholders — but first, bend over. Parody account.
https://twitter.com/epicfailsystems?s=20
How were you able to get a job doing SaaS sales as a bio major?2 years out of undergrad with a B.S. in Biology and I was making a 6 figure salary already working in sales at SaaS technology companies in Silicon Valley. If I stayed in sales instead of leaving to do research to get into medical school, I would of easily been making 300K per year 5 years in. Good SaaS tech sales reps (half your salary is commission-based) and software engineers make significantly more than your average physician and only ever have a bachelor's degree. If your reason for going to medical school is just to make bank as a physician then you've chosen the wrong career path. There are other professional careers that pay significantly better and require much less student loan debt and fewer years of education. I personally left a very lucrative career and a job I really excelled at to pursue medical school because I wanted to help people; financially, medical school is not the smart move for me as I will incur a lot more debt and make significantly less income as a physician (unless I specialize in neurosurgery or plastics). Hopefully most people going to medical school are not in it for the money.
I wondered that tooHow were you able to get a job doing SaaS sales as a bio major?
Please tell me you’re going to take them down from the inside?Lol. I love how you know what company it is without even me telling you the name!
Please tell me you’re going to take them down from the inside?
Yes, although there are even worse fates….Is not liking epic the norm amongst med students and doctors?
Check out Epic Fail Systems on Twitter.
Critical view of a company failing everyone except shareholders — but first, bend over. Parody account.
https://twitter.com/epicfailsystems?s=20
What you major in doesn’t matter to sales managers. They just want practical experience. To get a sales job after undergrad get a part time sales/commission based job during undergrad or over the summer (doesn’t need to be anything fancy) or do a sales internship at a tech company if that’s an option. Then network with recruiting firms!How were you able to get a job doing SaaS sales as a bio major?
Primary Care Physicians have seen increases in pay since I started paying attention (2005 or so). I'm a hospital-employed outpatient only FP in a small-ish town in the SE and for 2020 I earned over 400k. That's with working 4.5 days per week, no nights, weekends, holidays. I ended up taking around 5-6 weeks off for vacations/long weekends.1st post on SDN ever. Saw this and had to respond cos I’m in the other room looking through the glass windows.
I Currently make ~$210k/yr in Business IT. Never thought I’d make this much & I’m in early 30’s. Had two friends who got into Medschool when we all 3 of us applied 2yrs ago.
I Have Masters & Undergrad in Biomedical sci and Biology.
I Always wanted to be a MD so I’d be attempting med school applications this year 2022.
I am Low key contemplating against doing that because theres immense potential for job growth in business IT due to Companies undergoing digital transformation. I have worked in healthcare as a project manager and also worked with pharmacists and MD’s working as Project & product managers and are Making $160-$230k per year easily.
On the other hand Primary Care Physicians are paid lower and lower each time I check and we can all say it’s about fulfillment which I’m all in for but I gasta get paid at the end for all my blood sweat and tears. Specialization is even worse!!
You can’t take care of people when you as a doctor suffers mental and financial stress.
Bottom line is MD is still a dream of mine. Perhaps if I can pay for school I won’t be bitching by the time I’m paid s**T as a resident. Yes!! People are making bank outside medicine and it’s not ($20 is the new $50) that’s trash talk. People get close to $20k/month outside medicine and are still under 30yrs old.
It is bad, but still might be the best available EMR. None of them are particularly good.Tbh Epic is not bad except they are vulnerable to ransomware attacks.
This is cynical and incorrect. Please don’t buy into populist garbage or woke nonsense regarding “privilege.”
My tech friends and myself all came from modest backgrounds, small non-coastal towns, or immigrants whose parents came to the US with nothing. “Privileged” kids go to Ivy League schools and do high finance, law, medicine, or other fields with high barriers to entry, and the truly privileged either marry rich or go on to manage the family business. If they do tech, they go into product management, not software engineering.
The baseline software engineer job in a tech hub is: 1) not obtained with “family connections” LOL, 2) not a bad QOL if you consider 30-40 hour work weeks with remote option desirable; 3) not rare or even uncommon. FAANG is collectively worth trillions of dollars and their assets are their software engineers, obviously they employ armies of these folks who skew young, and pay them handsomely.
People buy into cynical garbage if they’re in areas with little opportunity, like smaller cities or towns. If I wasn’t a physician, I would absolutely move to SF or Boston, maybe NYC or Austin or Seattle as a backup. You have to be in areas with high socioeconomic mobility, which involves going to the absolute best college/university you can, taking jobs that challenge you, moving to areas with a high density of talent & opportunity, and surrounding yourself with like minded peers.
Being in the right field helps of course, all the fancy degrees in the world from Princeton’s art history department isn’t equal to a 4 year CS degree from a solid state school, in terms of economic opportunity in 2022.
Their whole business model is monopolistic.I once read an epic pitch book/slide deck at work and it seemed borderline monopolistic in terms of the %of hospital systems they were in.
Being in the right field is the most important thing. But let's not act like a Princeton degree is nothing. It depends what the Princeton grad decides to do after graduating. Even with an art degree... if you went to princeton there are plenty of avenues you could take to get paid great money... such as strategy consulting or pivoting to a non-technical role in tech. There's plenty of roles that don't care about your major that pay great (assuming you went to a target school). Your school matters much more in the business world than in medicine. I know a girl with a communications degree for example who got a 6 figure job at Google just bc she went to BerkleyBeing in the right field helps of course, all the fancy degrees in the world from Princeton’s art history department isn’t equal to a 4 year CS degree from a solid state school, in terms of economic opportunity in 2022.
Strategy consultants, investment bankers, software engineers, software sales, other non technical roles in techBruh, who are these people everyone knows that are making 6 figures at a young age? I don't know anyone that is relatively young (below 40) and making bank. I see med students/residents complain about their peers making money easily and it always confuses me. You guys have some very successful friends because most of the people I know outside of medicine are making 50K-80K in their careers, which is the range for residents.
Bruh, who are these people everyone knows that are making 6 figures at a young age? I don't know anyone that is relatively young (below 40) and making bank. I see med students/residents complain about their peers making money easily and it always confuses me. You guys have some very successful friends because most of the people I know outside of medicine are making 50K-80K in their careers, which is the range for residents.
Can we get a tldr for this thread
Good. Because I truly love medicine. Money is important, but it’s not everything.There are many careers that allow you to make good money. Only choose medicine if you're passionate about the job because the others are easier to attain and take less training.
I dated a guy a few years ago. He is an engineer. Not only is he making 6 figures, but the company he works for also gives him a stipend for housing. My friend is a traveling nurse. She just signed a contract and will make 6 figures in 3 months. I have another friend that is a consultant. She worked 3 years in her position and is now making 6 figures.Bruh, who are these people everyone knows that are making 6 figures at a young age? I don't know anyone that is relatively young (below 40) and making bank. I see med students/residents complain about their peers making money easily and it always confuses me. You guys have some very successful friends because most of the people I know outside of medicine are making 50K-80K in their careers, which is the range for residents.
what nurses are making now is ridiculous - I don't think its sustainable. It also makes you wonder why some physicians are so lowly paid - i see sometimes job ads for PCPs in the 100's/low 200's. But it's ok to pay nurses 8-10/week.I dated a guy a few years ago. He is an engineer. Not only is he making 6 figures, but the company he works for also gives him a stipend for housing. My friend is a traveling nurse. She just signed a contract and will make 6 figures in 3 months. I have another friend that is a consultant. She worked 3 years in her position and is now making 6 figures.
Trust me, our counterparts are out there but why is this significant when we are pursuing something that we love? Many doctors have reiterated that if it's the money you are after, then it's not worth it. You can make 6 figures in another field spending less time in training.
Comparing your salary as a junior resident to people in their actual careers is disingenuous. When you graduate residency you will be making at least triple what most of those people are making. Some even more than that.I'm a PGY-2 in Urology. Of the friends I keep in contact with from college:
1) Financial advisor, makes ~300k now. Started at 150k out of Business school. Wife is climbing the ladder at a marketing company, makes 150k+ depending on bonuses. Both work ~50 hours per week.
2) Software analyst - first job out of college 80k at age 22. Now at 140k + stock options (don't know what thats worth). Works 32 hours per week on average. Sometimes more sometimes less depending on projects.
3) Dentist - 220k, one year residency finished at age 27. Works 4 days per week.
4) Started a wood finishing company, pays himself 100k but company value is growing. Works ~60 hours per week.
5) Regional manager for Tesla - makes 200k, works ~55 hours per week.
6) Working at a medical translation company - 70k, 40 hours per week.
7) Architect - 65k, 40 hours per week
8) Marketing - 125k, 40 hours per week
9) Hydrologist - 130k, 40 hours per week
10) Pathology resident - 70k (in HCOL). Wife makes 130k as a medical science liaison after her PhD.
11) CPA - makes ~150k. Works more than I do in tax season, minimal hours outside of that.
Me: 60k at 60-80 hours per week depending on call. Wife makes a little less at similar hours getting her PhD. She has external funding though, I think her stipend from the University is like 21k. Overall I tend to think I have very successful friends outside of medicine... May be selection bias. My job is way more interesting IMO, very happy with my decision but currently very tired as a junior resident.
No physician should ever take a job for that little money. There are plenty of jobs for PCPs.what nurses are making now is ridiculous - I don't think its sustainable. It also makes you wonder why some physicians are so lowly paid - i see sometimes job ads for PCPs in the 100's/low 200's. But it's ok to pay nurses 8-10/week.
No physician should ever take a job for that little money. There are plenty of jobs for PCPs.
100s is not a salary any physician should ever take. That’s just insulting. There’s no reason a PCP should have to take a job for that salary.That's the salary of a lot of physicians. 200's is very frequent for many non-specialties, including my own (PM&R). While I make numerous times what the typical doc in my field makes, for example, most people in my former group were making in the mid 200's with no room to go up.
How do employed doctors make more money aside from seeing more patients - do they get salary increases? I left my former practice before making it to a new salary negotiation but it seems like there wasn't a early increase. It's amazing how medical practices screw physicians.
100s is not a salary any physician should ever take. That’s just insulting. There’s no reason a PCP should have to take a job for that salary.
Yeah I’m not denying those jobs are out there. Just that no one should take them.Before I took my current job, I was offered a job as a medical director for healogics - for $170k. Then they wanted me to do no base and just collections. I said no thank you. Lots of jobs even on indeed and stuff list salaries in the mid to high 100's. I agree it's insulting.
We're all on a ladder somewhere, and the goal for most (not all) is to climb. Residency is just another wrung on that ladder, though certainly the next step up is a large one. My footing on my ladder is more solid than most, as progression is nearly guaranteed, which can't be said about nearly every other field. Most junior analysts are not in their position because they dreamed of being a junior analyst. The software engineers I know are looking forward to the day they are a senior engineer or operative director. In fact, not one of my friends is in their "actual" career per se, even the dentist is applying for orthodontics residencies this year.Comparing your salary as a junior resident to people in their actual careers is disingenuous. When you graduate residency you will be making at least triple what most of those people are making. Some even more than that.
Nursing pay right now is literally insane. One of my buddies is making bank. He is working a lot of hours, but the overtime incentives are crazy right now. It's even better for travel nurses like you said. I really wonder how long it's going to lastI dated a guy a few years ago. He is an engineer. Not only is he making 6 figures, but the company he works for also gives him a stipend for housing. My friend is a traveling nurse. She just signed a contract and will make 6 figures in 3 months. I have another friend that is a consultant. She worked 3 years in her position and is now making 6 figures.
Trust me, our counterparts are out there but why is this significant when we are pursuing something that we love? Many doctors have reiterated that if it's the money you are after, then it's not worth it. You can make 6 figures in another field spending less time in training.
rural areas generally make more than huge metros as physicians. Obviously it can depend though. Medicine is the most reliable highest paying career if you want to live ruralas somebody who doesn’t really like cities, how much should doctors expect to make if they practice in “rural” areas as opposed to metropolitan areas?