P1 hicp students

DayDreamer · May 30, 2005

All the issues that were lingering in the air last week, Dr. Hasan was supposed to have a state of the union address the same week on Friday, May 27,2005 ,which he did MENTIONED during the Wednesday Town Hall. At 1pm that Friday, Dr. Belloto read a note stating that he cancelled the Town Hall meeting on Friday because he was "out of town." Yet, some students saw him upstairs in his office at 3pm, the time he was supposed to address the students on Friday.

I must agree that he does have spies. It was way too obvious that we wanted Dr. Miyahara to be our Dean and then suddenly....Dr. Miyahara was needed at the college anymore the same day. The move to remove Dr. Miyahara was very suspicious.

This is the worse place to possibly be a student. You don't even know who to trust because you don't know which side the student is on. Sad Sad Sad. I have never went to a school where students feel threatened before in my life. This is a first, and I hope it will be the last.

lava2 · May 30, 2005

BMBiology said:
As for your statement, why does the policy apply to accreditated schools like USN but then not HICP? That is just absorb.

I wonder why the administration keeps on lying to its students. Could it be because the students just eat it all up? What has happened to HICP was foreseen and we desperately tried to warn others about it but yet our warnings were ignored. Still today, I wonder why any rational person would keep hoping when it is painfully obvious that HICP will fail. Yet, some HICP students still surprise me.

Yes, you did warn the students, but what you must understand that before Hicp the students didn't know of anyother pharmacy school that ever failed when opened. The students didn't have a clue of how ACPE functioned, etc.
Therefore, they went to HICP with the notion that they were going to a legit school, that they were taking all the proper procedures to gain accreditation and function smoothly as any college. Lies were fed to the student from the first day they arrived and no one knew that they were lies until recently. So yes, your warnings were heard, but who knew that HICP students had to become ACPE experts and understand how a College of Pharmacy should function and pass all their exams at the same time. Put yourself in their shoes, the only reason you have this knoweldge is because you've been through a program, but what about those who haven't? Do you actually think that students would've attended HICP if they knew they were being lied to and that the hope that they had was unattainable?

No student should ever have to go through what these students have. There should be a law against what has occured at this school.
And when students did question what was going on they WERE ALWAYS given false hope and fed lies, to keep them optomistic. That is a FACT.

BMBiology · May 30, 2005

lava2 said:
Put yourself in their shoes, the only reason you have this knoweldge is because you've been through a program, but what about those who haven't? Do you actually think that students would've attended HICP if they knew they were being lied to and that the hope that they had was unattainable?

I am in a pharmacy program but trust me when i say this: most of my classmates don't know much about ACPE and its standards. I know about ACPE because I made the effort to talk to them, as well as to do my own research. I urged incoming HICP students to do the same but I guess most of them did not. I can understand they were excited but there were ominous signs everywhere including skipping the pre-candidate status, misinforming students about financial aid, requiring students to pay the full 1 year tuition before they even start the program, just to name a few. I am not pointing fingers; I just want people to learn from this and perhaps make better decisions in the future. Again, I hope things will eventually work out for HICP students.

lava2 · May 30, 2005

BMBiology said:
I am in a pharmacy program but trust me when i say this: most of my classmates don't know much about ACPE and its standards. I know about ACPE because I made the effort to talk to them, as well as to do my own research. I urged incoming HICP students to do the same but I guess most of them did not. I can understand they were excited but there were ominous signs everywhere including skipping the pre-candidate status, misinforming students about financial aid, requiring students to pay the full 1 year tuition before they even start the program, just to name a few. I am not pointing fingers; I just want people to learn from this and perhaps make better decisions in the future. Again, I hope things will eventually work out for HICP students.

You are correct. Maybe we can join force and start an Anti-HICP campaign for any future students :laugh:

Seriously, there is something that needs to be done so no other College will ever attempt what HICP has. All the pharmacy orgainizations (AMCP, AACP, APhA, ACPE,etc.) should ban together to prevent these schemes from occuring. Yes, I do understand that ACPE can't shut the schools down, but it can state that if precanidate status is skipped and over a certain # of students start off a program, accreditation will NOT BE granted. College's need to be in the business for the sole purpose of educating, not for the purpose of money making!!!!!!

hancanada · May 30, 2005

lava2 said:
You are correct. Maybe we can join force and start an Anti-HICP campaign for any future students Seriously, there is something that needs to be done so no other College will ever attempt what HICP has. All the pharmacy orgainizations (AMCP, AACP, APhA, ACPE,etc.) should ban together to prevent these schemes from occuring. Yes, I do understand that ACPE can't shut the schools down, but it can state that if precanidate status is skipped and over a certain # of students start off a program, accreditation will NOT BE granted. College's need to be in the business for the sole purpose of educating, not for the purpose of money making!!!!!!

Agree!!!!!

DayDreamer · May 30, 2005

Lava2

As you have notice, HICP is not posted on the AACP website at all. There is a section where schools deciding on opening a pharmacy school is listed on this website. I don't think HICP is very well liked by AACP as well. Maybe that's their reason of not putting them on their website.

Caverject · May 30, 2005

DayDreamer said:
Lava2

As you have notice, HICP is not posted on the AACP website at all. There is a section where schools deciding on opening a pharmacy school is listed on this website. I don't think HICP is very well liked by AACP as well. Maybe that's their reason of not putting them on their website.

You have to be a member to be put on that site.

bananaface · May 30, 2005

Just a reminder... please don't make duplicate accounts or troll. Thanks.

- Anna

Caverject · May 30, 2005

bananaface said:
Just a reminder... please don't make duplicate accounts or troll. Thanks.

- Anna

In that case, please close my bananaface account.

bananaface · May 30, 2005

Caverject said:
In that case, please close my bananaface account.

It has been decided that I will be punished by neutering my Caverject account.

bananaface · May 31, 2005

I am curious to know how many students of the 240 who started are still enrolled at this time. Perhaps you could share this information with us. We have heard that people have left the school, but we don't really have an idea if that is a handful or a majority.

phong.nguyen76 · May 31, 2005

http://www.hawaii.gov/dcca/areas/ocp/consumer_complaint/

The Office of Consumer Protection (OCP) investigates possible unfair or deceptive acts or practices in trade or commerce. There are many ways that we learn of these problems, but probably our most important source of information comes from consumer complaints. Therefore, if you have concerns about a business, let us know about it! One way that you can help us serve you better is by filling out this Complaint Form (PDF). If you are having problems filling out the form, please click here for instructions (PDF).

We need as many students to file the complaints.

JohnUNLV · May 31, 2005

bananaface said:
I am curious to know how many students of the 240 who started are still enrolled at this time. Perhaps you could share this information with us. We have heard that people have left the school, but we don't really have an idea if that is a handful or a majority.

Not very many people have left. Myself, and 4 others for certain. There may have been a couple more since i left, but the vast majority of students are still there wasting away. Most will be deferring..but oddly enough there are still some who will pay whatever because they have no choice.

DayDreamer · Jun 2, 2005

http://www.aacp.org/Docs/MainNavigation/NewsRoom/6733_A47900AACP.pdf

Posting of the New Dean Position for Hawaii College of Pharmacy....

The position is available immediately. The successful candidate must reside on, or be willing to relocate, at own expense, immediately to the island of Oahu in Hawaii.

Can you believe that? AT YOUR OWN EXPENSE???????

Minimum Qualification????? What the hell is that? Anybody basically can be the DEAN. I mean all you need is a DEGREE!!!!!!!!!!

I forgot to mention that the DEAN NEEDS TO REPORT TO THE CEO OF PACIFIC EDUCATIONAL SERVICE, INC. They have been telling student that the Corporation needs a "Hands Off" approach from the college? BULL****

Caverject · Jun 2, 2005

DayDreamer said:
http://www.aacp.org/Docs/MainNavigation/NewsRoom/6733_A47900AACP.pdf

Posting of the New Dean Position for Hawaii College of Pharmacy....

The position is available immediately. The successful candidate must reside on, or be willing to relocate, at own expense, immediately to the island of Oahu in Hawaii.

Can you believe that? AT YOUR OWN EXPENSE???????

Minimum Qualification????? What the hell is that? Anybody basically can be the DEAN. I mean all you need is a DEGREE!!!!!!!!!!

Who ever wrote it can't write worth a crap. However, it's nice to see they are taking steps thru the right channels instead of posting crap to higheredjobs.com Also, if you reference the website, how about updating the website! D'OH! And for the love of God, stop this "Hawaii College of Pharmacy TM" bullcrap! The TM is just so damn cheezy!

DayDreamer · Jun 2, 2005

Caverject said:
Who ever wrote it can't write worth a crap. However, it's nice to see they are taking steps thru the right channels instead of posting crap to higheredjobs.com Also, if you reference the website, how about updating the website! D'OH! And for the love of God, stop this "Hawaii College of Pharmacy TM" bullcrap! The TM is just so damn cheezy!

I agree! TM IS CHEEZY!!!!

Oh, and you should compare it to UH Hilo website. The Dean needs to have more qualifications than just a degree to start up a Pharmacy School.

http://www.uhh.hawaii.edu/academics/pharmacy/Dean.php

Just because they are going through right channels doesn't mean anything. You just need the $$$ to do it.

Caverject · Jun 2, 2005

DayDreamer said:
I agree! TM IS CHEEZY!!!!

Oh, and you should compare it to UH Hilo website. The Dean needs to have more qualifications than just a degree to start up a Pharmacy School.

http://www.uhh.hawaii.edu/academics/pharmacy/Dean.php

Just because they are going through right channels doesn't mean anything. You just need the $$$ to do it.

But you guys do have money. It's buying dental supplies at the moment! :laugh:

Steady-State · Jun 2, 2005

There was a "state of the college" address today. Ill share some of the information from that address. There are 3 proposed schools for Pacific Blue University, pharmacy (HICP), dental (HI College of Dental Medicine), nurse anesthesiology (in progress).

HICP is in the process of affiliating or joining with an "unnamed" school. My guess would be National University (NU) in CA or BYU in HI. It is more likely NU since its trying to start a Pharmacy Tech program here on the island and need a place to start their program. Thus this is where the proposed promised a long time ago building comes in. This same building is where the dental college is proposed to be held. At this point NU is unaware of all the problems surrounding HICP. Im not even sure if NU even knows that we dont have a dean. I suppose if this doesn't fall through then.....

HICP has hired 4 new faculties and is not releasing their names. 3 of the new faculty are PharmDs fresh out of their residencies and one from Kentucky. The school is guarding those pharmacist identities because they have no clue what they are going to be walking into.

Are students allowed to call ACPE?

"NO" according to Dr. Hasan.

Welcome to HICP or Pacific Blue University.

Steady-State · Jun 2, 2005

Don't grants have names to them? What's the name of the grant and from who?

DayDreamer · Jun 2, 2005

Steady-State said:
Don't grants have names to them? What's the name of the grant and from who?

Oops, I deleted my response. According to Dr. Hasan, the Dental School received 6.5 million dollars in GRANT.

If they have that much money, then why do they need the pharmacy schools money to build the dental school? Sounds a little suspicious or is it more lies ??????

bananaface · Jun 2, 2005

The pharmacy and dental schools go through different accreditiation processes. Who would give HICD grant money at this stage in the game I am not sure.

Caverject · Jun 2, 2005

bananaface said:
The pharmacy and dental schools go through different accreditiation processes. Who would give HICD grant money at this stage in the game I am not sure.

Easy...HICP!

As far as contacting ACPE....

http://www.acpe-accredit.org/complaints/default.asp

ACPE has an obligation to assure itself that any institution which seeks or holds a preaccreditation or accreditation status for its professional program(s) conducts its affairs with honesty and frankness. Complaints from other institutions, students, faculty, or the public against a college or school of pharmacy, including tuition and fee policies, and as related to ACPE standards, policies or procedures, shall be placed in writing in detail by the complainant and submitted to the ACPE office. The complaint shall be submitted to the institution for response. Requests for confidentiality shall be respected to the extent any such information is not necessary for the resolution of the complaint.

The Executive Director shall, based upon the complaint, the response, and information from such further investigation deemed necessary, promptly determine the facts surrounding the issue, determine the validity of the complaint, and resolve the issue; provided, however, where the Executive Director deems it necessary or appropriate, the matter shall be considered at the next regular meeting of the Council. The time frame for resolution is generally within six months. A record of complaints regarding a specific college or school of pharmacy, including student complaints received or made available, is kept for consideration on file at the Council office. Such record of complaints are considered during scheduled evaluations, or a special evaluation, as the case may require.

The procedure shall provide for treatment of complaints in a timely manner that is fair and equitable to all parties. The complainant shall be advised of the decision or action as soon as possible. When ACPE has cause to believe that any institution with which it is concerned is acting in an unethical manner or is deliberately misrepresenting itself to students or the public, it will investigate the matter and provide the institution an opportunity to respond to the allegations. If, on the basis of such investigation, after notice to the institution and opportunity for institutional response, ACPE finds an institution has engaged in unethical conduct or that its integrity has been seriously undermined, ACPE will either:

a. request that the institution show cause, within a stated time period, why adverse action should not be taken, or

b. in extreme cases, immediately discontinue its relationship with the institution by denying or withdrawing preaccreditation or accreditation status.

A complaint against a college or a school of pharmacy must be related to the standards or the policies and procedures of ACPE and must be submitted in writing to the Executive Director. Under existing practices, when a complaint is received, it is submitted to the college or school affected for response. If, thereafter, based upon the complaint and the response, the Executive Director determines that a complaint is not related to the standards or policies, the complainant is so advised in writing with a copy to the school or college, and the matter is treated as resolved.

Anonymous complaints pertaining to accreditation matters are retained and, depending on circumstances, may or may not be forwarded to the school or college involved, depending somewhat on the severity of the complaint. This decision is made by the Executive Director. Where a complainant has threatened or filed legal action against the institution involved, ACPE will hold complaints in abeyance pending resolution of the legal issues and the complainant is so advised.

If the Executive Director finds a complaint to be extremely serious in nature charging egregious conduct that may warrant adverse action by the Council, or involves an interpretation which the Executive Director believes should be made by the Council, the complaint will be submitted to the Council for determination at the next regular meeting. Extraordinary remedies available for complaints covering extreme cases are set forth in paragraphs (a) and (b) above.

ACPE has an obligation to respond to any complaints which may be lodged against it by any institution, student, faculty or third party in respect to the application of ACPE's standards, policies and procedures where the complaining party is directly affected thereby. Any such complaint shall be submitted in writing. The Executive Director shall promptly determine the facts surrounding the issues and shall attempt to resolve the matter in consultation with the Public Interest Panel established pursuant to Article V of the ACPE By-Laws. Complaints which cannot be resolved by the Executive Director shall be considered and resolved at the next regular meeting of the Council. The time frame for resolution is generally within six months.

If you wish to file a complaint, please e-mail:

[email protected] (regarding a professional degree program)
[email protected] (regarding a continuing education provider)

Steady-State · Jun 2, 2005

I figured Im going to post our last town hall meeting up for everyone to see what is going at HICP. Scott Banks is the corp CFO, HICP Human Resource, in charge of HICP Operations. He read a statement to the class in place of Dr. Hasan who was suppose to address students at regularly scheduled Wednesday Town Hall meetings that he has avoid the previous week.

Town Hall on May 25, 2005

Scott- Hello everybody. Ive been asked to read a message here by Dr. Hasan so I can read it to you. Can you here me in the back now? I will be reading a message to you by Dr. Hasan ok? It starts

Dear Students,

Thank you for taking time from your busy schedules to attend todays town hall meeting. As Mr. Scott Banks our chief financial officer reads this letter to you, I will be in the middle of my very first meeting with our advisory board. I regret not being able to attend todays meeting. In my place I have asked Scott Banks to read my ACPE report to you. I am planning a state of the college address to presented in the near future which is going to be on Friday. In this University wide report, I will inform you of the many developments that have occurred since our last meeting. Most of which has been very positive. Be sure to check your emails for dates and times. Also, Mr. Banks will not be answering any questions today. Please hold them for the state of the college address. Thanks You. I wish you the best in your studies.

Sincerely,
Dr. Hasan

Scott - I have meeting notes from Dr. Hasans ACPE report. The meeting participates were Peter Velasquez, Geffory Wadalen, Greg Boyer, and Dr. Hasan

The topic was Dr. Borjas email.
Dr. Wadalen, informed me that Dr. Borja, has sent him an email that morning and in it, it talked about Dr. Hasan being interim dean. He also informed me that the message informed him that the submission of our latest proposal draft had been delayed. He stated that the delay would not negatively impact our efforts and they would read it and assist us once it had been received.

Update on the dean search
ACPE was informed that 5 pharmacy publications had received our advertisements also that our CFO was working to get a headhunter in place for the dean.

Enrollment Plan
ACPE wants to fully understand the transition plan regarding our large numbers.
They see our plan in two phases. First, how do we plan to dealing with the present number of students? Second, whats our on going plan for the future and what will it entail. This would need to be clearly delineated in order to satisfy their concerns. They also wanted to know our plans for numbers over the three year period. I explained to them that we are planning on having 300 students. From my perspective this appeared satisfactory to them. (Scott- this is for year 1 and 2 by the way) In some way they want to see performers around our new number and our long range plan. This will include them observing significant student input in our proposal.
Faculty to Student Ratio
8 to 1 or 10 to 1 would be ideal faculty to student ratio for ACPE. They felt 25-30 faculty including a dean and a assist dean would suffice for our present numbers.

Clinical Faculty to Basic Ratio Faculty
They felt that the ratio 65% clinical pharmacist faculty to 35% basic sciences faculty ratio or 60% clinical pharmacist faculty to 40% basic science faculty would increase our chances of succeeding. However, this would depend on our requirements regarding scholarly activities in relationship to our research requirements. Further, the executive states that they would like to see our enrollment philosophy in relationship to our core faculty.

Curriculum outcomes
They referred us to the AACP website. This is where we could find better instruments that we could use along with reposts to AACP academic groups. Also they suggested that we use our consultants. They stated that out CAPE outcomes posted on our present documents were very good.

Dr. Velasquez Suggestion
Regarding our enrollment plan, Dr. Velasquez made 3 suggestions that he felt would assist us in our quest to find a solution to our large student numbers. Presently, I have developed a plan that appears to have merit. At this point I have chosen not to reveal it to anyone outside of a circle of consultants. I feel that this is the best decision for everyone. Once the plan has been completed, the ACPE has approved it; I will present it to entire college and university.

Corporation Involvement
Dr. Wadalen asked me if the corporation was still involved in our program. I informed him that as of late they have implemented a hands off approach. He asked me if we were operating as independent college. And I let him know that we were swiftly moving towards that direction. They stated that visual proof of this hands off policy was needed in our next submission. Pertinent evidence would include documentation indicating registry with commerce and consumer affairs agency as well as a list of board of trustees, ect. In other words they wanted it to be made very clear.

Rumor The End of Talks
My final question dealt with a rumor. I informed the gentlemen that a report was circulated stating that officials at ACPE had suggested that talks had broken down between ACPE and the Hawaii College of Pharmacy. Dr. Wadalen informed me that he felt apparent who called him during this period had started this rumor. Dr. Wadalen stated that this misinterpretation most likely occurred when he informed the person that due to our withdraw of our initial application which placed us between submissions, ACPE was in a middle point. He felt that until a reapplication was received that the counsel would be in a very uncomfortable position. However, he stated that wanted this individual to clearly understand that ACPE and the Hawaii College of Pharmacy were by no means involved in an adversarial relationship. And that the accrediting body wanted HICP to succeed. He clearly stated when HICP meets their standards then the Hawaii College of Pharmacy will be accredited. All the ACPE official present at this meeting concurred with this statement.

Questions concerning the health Dr. Bhagavan
Dr. Valasquez asked about dean Bhagavans health. I explained that Dr. Bhagavan was stable but was not doing well. Fortunately however, he has someone to assist him with his research. I informed the gentleman that our prayers were with Dr. Bhagavan and he stated that their prayers were with him as well. Everyone shook hands and gave well wishes for each to have good health, happiness, and success. This concluded the meeting with ACPE.

Scott - Im not going to be taking questions because I dont have the information to answer them but on Friday Dr. Hasan will address you all and have a state of a college address. Thank You.

Student1 - why didnt we have that (state of the college address) today. (Every other Wednesday HICP is scheduled to address students at a town hall. The previous one was canceled because Dr. Hasan, Scott Banks, and Dr. Nixon were at a Merrill Group Meeting conveniently scheduled at 1:00pm in Honolulu. Who even knows if they went?)

Scott - He was at a meeting with the board of directors for the college.

Student 1 Why couldnt he have that meeting any other day of week?
Student 2 Could we wait until he was done?
Student 3 We all waited for him

Scott I was told specifically not to take any questions and to provide this information to you.

Student 4 Could we wait until he is here?
Student 3 We all waited for him and we have questions?

Student 5 We could have received this information in an email is what they are all saying? We wasted a lot of time coming to this place.

Student 6 We will wait for him until he is done.
Student 7 We will wait for 2 hrs.

Scott- Ok I have passed the information to all of you. I done what I have been asked to do and that was to read this information to you and I will pass this information on to him as well.

Student 8 Why did he tell us to come here and talk to us for 5mins and then to leave?
Student 9 Tell him we are sick of the lies and we want the truth.

Scott As I said, what I was supposed to do was to provide this information to you. And thats what Ive done.

Student 3 Can you provide him with the information that we are giving you? We would like him to come down here and answer our questions.

Student 10 Is Dr. Hasan part of the corporation?

Student 7 And we are not leaving this room until we get the answers.
Student 8 I mean we are going to wait. Tell him to come down here.
Student 11 - We dont have any other classes or school today.

Scott Ill pass the information on to him thank you.

Scott then swiftly left the room and with 30-50 students behind him demanding that Dr. Hasan address students.

Friday came and went. Dr. Hasan was available after school but did not address the class as he was promised. Two reasons why not, he had to visit a pregnent student in the hospitol at 9:00am however class ended at 3:00pm. Also during the afternoon class, a statement was by the instructor from a note left under his door that Dr. Hasan could not have the address because he was out of town.

More lies !!!

Caverject · Jun 2, 2005

Steady-State said:
I figured Im going to post our last town hall meeting up for everyone to see what is going at HICP. Scott Banks is the corp CFO, HICP Human Resource, in charge of HICP Operations. He read a statement to the class in place of Dr. Hasan who was suppose to address students at regularly scheduled Wednesday Town Hall meetings that he has avoid the previous week.

Town Hall on May 25, 2005

Scott- Hello everybody. Ive been asked to read a message here by Dr. Hasan so I can read it to you. Can you here me in the back now? I will be reading a message to you by Dr. Hasan ok? It starts

Dear Students,

Thank you for taking time from your busy schedules to attend todays town hall meeting. As Mr. Scott Banks our chief financial officer reads this letter to you, I will be in the middle of my very first meeting with our advisory board. I regret not being able to attend todays meeting. In my place I have asked Scott Banks to read my ACPE report to you. I am planning a state of the college address to presented in the near future which is going to be on Friday. In this University wide report, I will inform you of the many developments that have occurred since our last meeting. Most of which has been very positive. Be sure to check your emails for dates and times. Also, Mr. Banks will not be answering any questions today. Please hold them for the state of the college address. Thanks You. I wish you the best in your studies.

Sincerely,
Dr. Hasan

Scott - I have meeting notes from Dr. Hasans ACPE report. The meeting participates were Peter Velasquez, Geffory Wadalen, Greg Boyer, and Dr. Hasan

The topic was Dr. Borjas email.
Dr. Wadalen, informed me that Dr. Borja, has sent him an email that morning and in it, it talked about Dr. Hasan being interim dean. He also informed me that the message informed him that the submission of our latest proposal draft had been delayed. He stated that the delay would not negatively impact our efforts and they would read it and assist us once it had been received.

Update on the dean search
ACPE was informed that 5 pharmacy publications had received our advertisements also that our CFO was working to get a headhunter in place for the dean.

Enrollment Plan
ACPE wants to fully understand the transition plan regarding our large numbers.
They see our plan in two phases. First, how do we plan to dealing with the present number of students? Second, whats our on going plan for the future and what will it entail. This would need to be clearly delineated in order to satisfy their concerns. They also wanted to know our plans for numbers over the three year period. I explained to them that we are planning on having 300 students. From my perspective this appeared satisfactory to them. (Scott- this is for year 1 and 2 by the way) In some way they want to see performers around our new number and our long range plan. This will include them observing significant student input in our proposal.
Faculty to Student Ratio
8 to 1 or 10 to 1 would be ideal faculty to student ratio for ACPE. They felt 25-30 faculty including a dean and a assist dean would suffice for our present numbers.

Clinical Faculty to Basic Ratio Faculty
They felt that the ratio 65% clinical pharmacist faculty to 35% basic sciences faculty ratio or 60% clinical pharmacist faculty to 40% basic science faculty would increase our chances of succeeding. However, this would depend on our requirements regarding scholarly activities in relationship to our research requirements. Further, the executive states that they would like to see our enrollment philosophy in relationship to our core faculty.

Curriculum outcomes
They referred us to the AACP website. This is where we could find better instruments that we could use along with reposts to AACP academic groups. Also they suggested that we use our consultants. They stated that out CAPE outcomes posted on our present documents were very good.

Dr. Velasquez Suggestion
Regarding our enrollment plan, Dr. Velasquez made 3 suggestions that he felt would assist us in our quest to find a solution to our large student numbers. Presently, I have developed a plan that appears to have merit. At this point I have chosen not to reveal it to anyone outside of a circle of consultants. I feel that this is the best decision for everyone. Once the plan has been completed, the ACPE has approved it; I will present it to entire college and university.

Corporation Involvement
Dr. Wadalen asked me if the corporation was still involved in our program. I informed him that as of late they have implemented a hands off approach. He asked me if we were operating as independent college. And I let him know that we were swiftly moving towards that direction. They stated that visual proof of this hands off policy was needed in our next submission. Pertinent evidence would include documentation indicating registry with commerce and consumer affairs agency as well as a list of board of trustees, ect. In other words they wanted it to be made very clear.

Rumor The End of Talks
My final question dealt with a rumor. I informed the gentlemen that a report was circulated stating that officials at ACPE had suggested that talks had broken down between ACPE and the Hawaii College of Pharmacy. Dr. Wadalen informed me that he felt apparent who called him during this period had started this rumor. Dr. Wadalen stated that this misinterpretation most likely occurred when he informed the person that due to our withdraw of our initial application which placed us between submissions, ACPE was in a middle point. He felt that until a reapplication was received that the counsel would be in a very uncomfortable position. However, he stated that wanted this individual to clearly understand that ACPE and the Hawaii College of Pharmacy were by no means involved in an adversarial relationship. And that the accrediting body wanted HICP to succeed. He clearly stated when HICP meets their standards then the Hawaii College of Pharmacy will be accredited. All the ACPE official present at this meeting concurred with this statement.

Questions concerning the health Dr. Bhagavan
Dr. Valasquez asked about dean Bhagavans health. I explained that Dr. Bhagavan was stable but was not doing well. Fortunately however, he has someone to assist him with his research. I informed the gentleman that our prayers were with Dr. Bhagavan and he stated that their prayers were with him as well. Everyone shook hands and gave well wishes for each to have good health, happiness, and success. This concluded the meeting with ACPE.

Scott - Im not going to be taking questions because I dont have the information to answer them but on Friday Dr. Hasan will address you all and have a state of a college address. Thank You.

Student1 - why didnt we have that (state of the college address) today. (Every other Wednesday HICP is scheduled to address students at a town hall. The previous one was canceled because Dr. Hasan, Scott Banks, and Dr. Nixon were at a Merrill Group Meeting conveniently scheduled at 1:00pm in Honolulu. Who even knows if they went?)

Scott - He was at a meeting with the board of directors for the college.

Student 1 Why couldnt he have that meeting any other day of week?
Student 2 Could we wait until he was done?
Student 3 We all waited for him

Scott I was told specifically not to take any questions and to provide this information to you.

Student 4 Could we wait until he is here?
Student 3 We all waited for him and we have questions?

Student 5 We could have received this information in an email is what they are all saying? We wasted a lot of time coming to this place.

Student 6 We will wait for him until he is done.
Student 7 We will wait for 2 hrs.

Scott- Ok I have passed the information to all of you. I done what I have been asked to do and that was to read this information to you and I will pass this information on to him as well.

Student 8 Why did he tell us to come here and talk to us for 5mins and then to leave?
Student 9 Tell him we are sick of the lies and we want the truth.

Scott As I said, what I was supposed to do was to provide this information to you. And thats what Ive done.

Student 3 Can you provide him with the information that we are giving you? We would like him to come down here and answer our questions.

Student 10 Is Dr. Hasan part of the corporation?

Student 7 And we are not leaving this room until we get the answers.
Student 8 I mean we are going to wait. Tell him to come down here.
Student 11 - We dont have any other classes or school today.

Scott Ill pass the information on to him thank you.

Scott then swiftly left the room and with 30-50 students behind him demanding that Dr. Hasan address students.

Friday came and went. Dr. Hasan was available after school but did not address the class as he was promised. Two reasons why not, he had to visit a pregnent student in the hospitol at 9:00am however class ended at 3:00pm. Also during the afternoon class, a statement was by the instructor from a note left under his door that Dr. Hasan could not have the address because he was out of town.

More lies !!!

interesting

GetLost_Hawaii · Jun 2, 2005

Steady- State,
Did you attend this morning meeting? It is more interesting and exciting about this school. Our college is on track to break ground October, 2005 after students pay their 2nd year tution. It is exactly the same they promised us last year before starting school, huh?
More and more lies....

Jeddevil · Jun 2, 2005

Steady-State said:
HICP is in the process of affiliating or joining with an "unnamed" school. My guess would be National University (NU) in CA or BYU in HI.

You can put these rumors to rest right now. There is no way that BYU will associate itself with such an unethical group as your school. Also, BYU Hawaii's plan does not include associating itself with some private screwup for graduate education. If BYU wanted programs like this, they would do it themselves and at their main provo campus.

GetLost_Hawaii · Jun 2, 2005

Jeddevil said:
There is no way that BYU will associate itself with such an unethical group as your school. Also, BYU Hawaii's plan does not include associating itself with some private screwup for graduate education.

Jeddevil,
That's what Dr. Monroe said to us...At that time, we did not know anything and had alot hope...on BYU...I really hate hate this lie 😡 😡 😡

BMBiology · Jun 2, 2005

Steady-State said:
Are students allowed to call ACPE?

"NO" according to Dr. Hasan.

I would directly call the ACPE and get answers from them.

drhemi70 · Jun 2, 2005

Hey jed devil,
Maybe byu could transplant a couple of the basketball/football players from last years scandal teams down there to straighten this whole thing out.
DR

Jeddevil · Jun 3, 2005

Hemi, you will have to fill me in on what scandals you are talking about. I don't follow BYU sports close, so I must have missed out on the news.

lava2 · Jun 3, 2005

GetLost_Hawaii said:
Jeddevil,
That's what Dr. Monroe said to us...At that time, we did not know anything and had alot hope...on BYU...I really hate hate this lie 😡 😡 😡

Wow, you students sure do believe anything they say to you over at that school.
Oh, but it's suppose to a pharmacy school where moral,ethics, and honesty are a necessity for that profession. :laugh:

Guess you don't expect dishonesty, and unethical behavior from the College's leaders?
Makes you wonder what kind of situation you're really in. If the founders/owners/corporate/ Interimn Dean/Asst.Dean of Curriculum fill your head with false truths and announce these false truths so openly to the college, do you actually think that they are conducting business honestly?? :idea:

drhemi70 · Jun 3, 2005

Jed Devil,
Couple of BYU players got caught providing alcohol to a girl and then all the press said here is that they violated the conduct code of the school. Rumor has it that they sexually assualted the girl.
DR

GetLost_Hawaii · Jun 4, 2005

BMBiology said:
I would directly call the ACPE and get answers from them.

Hi BMBiology,
Did you call the ACPE and what was the answer?
Thank you...

BMBiology · Jun 4, 2005

I called the ACPE and complained that HICP has not updated their website about its accreditation, no dean and delayed construction. HICP claimed that they will once they debute their new website but yet they have just updated their website about dean position:

http://www.hicp.org/careers/dean_of_pharm.pdf

I especially like this: PLEASE NOTE: There was a misprint published in the ad for this position stating The successful candidate must reside on, or be willing to relocate (at own expense) immediately to, the island of
Oahu in Hawaii. There is a relocation package available. Please contact us for more information.

ACPE said they will again remind HICP and they take my complain very seriously.

bananaface · Jun 4, 2005

"misprint"

Wow. Is that the first time they have admitted an inaccuracy?

GetLost_Hawaii · Jun 4, 2005

Hi BMBiology,
Did you ask ACPE what Steady-State posted?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady-State
Are students allowed to call ACPE?

"NO" according to Dr. Hasan.

I would directly call the ACPE and get answers from them.

BMBiology · Jun 4, 2005

Of course you can ask the ACPE. It is your school, you should take the step and talk to the ACPE yourself. That is the only way you will know.

GetLost_Hawaii · Jun 4, 2005

BMBiology said:
Of course you can ask the ACPE. It is your school, you should take the step and talk to the ACPE yourself. That is the only way you will know.

Why don't they want us call ACPE?

Abilene · Jun 4, 2005

I used to have faith and hopes for the hawaii school (I was a defered student last year)...but the situation that you guys at the school are in now...and what the school has been putting you through...really took my hopes away...
I don't see any reason why hicp students can't contact ACPE...or do anything they could do to find out the truth...It is, after all, YOUR school...
I truly wish that the first year hicp students find a resolution for themselves...for those that are leaving the school and still want to become pharmacists, I know that you will find much better, and accredited, pharmacy programs that will open their arms and accept you.....Best of luck....
:luck:

Caverject · Jun 6, 2005

BlueSkyCA said:
Here is the link: http://www.lemarssentinel.com/story/1095968.html
Another new pharmacy school will be opened next year. This school belongs to one of HICP students who did drop out this school about a month ago. I ask by myself what the hell...? A lot of innocent students are in danger...We hope that ACPE will know and prevent it....

You know what is interesting is that Iowa was not their first choice. They first tried to have this mess of a train wreck in Oregon.

http://www.osac.state.or.us/pdf/meeting326.pdf

Page 4 & 5

Mr. Contreras introduced Paul Smith and Robert Shire of the American School of Pharmacy (ASP), and
Glenn Leier, attorney at law representing ASP. Mr. Contreras explained that ASP is a newly incorporated
business that plans to establish a postsecondary school in Oregon to award doctoral degrees in
pharmacy. In reviewing the eligibility requirements for offering doctoral degrees in Oregon, ASP
discovered that the requirements as currently written might preclude ASP from applying as a doctoral
degree program with ODA. ASP requested that Commissioners consider amending OAR 583-030-0025.
Mr. Contreras said that ODA has never before reviewed a start-up school that offers only a doctoral
degree. Normally ODA would have a problem with that; however, ASP wishes to establish a pharmacy
school and the Accreditation Council for Pharmacy Education (ACPE) has a three-step accreditation
process instead of the two-step process of most accreditors. Mr. Contreras noted that ASP graduates
would have to go through the same licensing procedure as graduates of all other such schools before
being licensed as pharmacists.
Mr. Leier explained that the steps for accreditation from (ACPE) differ from those of ODA. ODA rule does
not currently allow for the step of a school being Candidate status. Mr. Smith and Mr. Shire again noted
that, once a school is in Candidate status with ACPE, students are licensed as pharmacists if they pass
the exam.
Mr. Edvalson asked whether the ACPE process, when complete, would satisfy ODA requirements. The
answer was yes, that ACPE accreditation is an in-depth process.

Mr. Weil and Mr. Lohrke asked if rule revisions could be narrowly tailored to help only a situation such as
that of ASP. Mr. Contreras replied that Commissioners had two choices:
1. Leave OAR 583-030-0025 as is, in which case ASP would locate in a state other than Oregon; or
2. Revise OAR 583-030-0025 to allow start-up of an unaccredited school only when leading to
professional licensure.
Mr. Contreras recommended option 2 above, and added that ASP would still need to meet all other ODA
standards.
Commissioners directed Mr. Contreras to proceed with proposed amendment of 583-030-0025 at
the January 2005 meeting

Caverject · Jun 6, 2005

But upon further research.....

http://www.osac.state.or.us/pdf/meeting330.pdf

Page 3

RULE HEARING 583-030-0025
Commission Chair Brian Clem opened the administrative rule hearing for Oregon Administrative
Rule (OAR) 583-030-0025, eligibility to apply for approval. Commission Vice-Chair Dean Wendle
served as timer. Alan Contreras explained that this proposed rule change is the formal version of
the subject discussed at the November 2004 Commission meeting. The rules are written so that
schools could not apply to be degree-granting programs without approval from an accrediting
agency.
Paul Smith and his attorney Glen Leier testified to the shortage of pharmacy schools in the United
States versus the growing demand. Mr. Leier provided statistics regarding current pharmacy
school class sizes and pharmacy school shortages. Mr. Smith added statistics regarding the
number of unfilled pharmacy positions within Oregon. Mr. Leier provided his testimony, in writing,
prior to the rules hearing to Alan Contreras.
Bob Weil moved for approval of the Administrative Rule Change. Dean Wendle seconded. The
Administrative Rule change passed unanimously

lord_helmet · Jun 6, 2005

I have found that most of the admin of a school will blow sunshine up your rear. QUESTION EVERYTHING!!! for example, before school got out, we were informed that one of the key lenders for our school loans was no longer going to finance us. (private school, no title IV = private loans only) since this was my lender, i made an appointment with the financial aid office. I was told that they would not tell me why, and that they were "gagged-ordered" not to tell the students anything. which made me 😡 😡 😡 !! so, i got on the phone with my lender and asked them what was up. the gentleman kindly informed me that the reason was that they made a new policy saying that they would no longer give their loans to schools that didnt have title IV status.
Moral of the story is, its your money, education and time. if you want to know, then use different means to find out. dont be a sheep.

Caverject · Jun 6, 2005

lord_helmet said:
I have found that most of the admin of a school will blow sunshine up your rear. QUESTION EVERYTHING!!! for example, before school got out, we were informed that one of the key lenders for our school loans was no longer going to finance us. (private school, no title IV = private loans only) since this was my lender, i made an appointment with the financial aid office. I was told that they would not tell me why, and that they were "gagged-ordered" not to tell the students anything. which made me 😡 😡 😡 !! so, i got on the phone with my lender and asked them what was up. the gentleman kindly informed me that the reason was that they made a new policy saying that they would no longer give their loans to schools that didnt have title IV status.
Moral of the story is, its your money, education and time. if you want to know, then use different means to find out. dont be a sheep.

Private school does not = private loans only. Title IV is a matter of accreditation. What school do you go to?

lava2 · Jun 8, 2005

I've seen that you've done your homework on Westmar. Don't you think something should be done about these start up schools that are in it for the money and not to be educators in a health profession? It is true that pharmacy programs are becoming a lucrative business b/c of supply and demand, but how ethical is it to meet the demand for purposes of greed, as what is possibly occuring in Hawaii and now might occur in Iowa?

Shouldn't this be a question that all pharmacy organizations should be reviewing and discussing, along with the DOE and state departments?

GetLost_Hawaii · Jun 8, 2005

Yesterday, our president quitted this school... 😕

LVPharm · Jun 8, 2005

GetLost_Hawaii said:
Yesterday, our president quitted this school... 😕

Is this your class president?

GetLost_Hawaii · Jun 8, 2005

LVPharm said:
Is this your class president?

Yes

lord_helmet · Jun 9, 2005

sorry about the delay getting back to you. I go to the Nevada school. Yes, we are accredited. however, no federal money. also, some private lenders will no longer give loans out to students whose schools are not title IV. if you have any information on how i can get more money besides my key bank loan, please do tell (i'll buy ya dinner too)
oh, and just so ya know, school tuition is now $31800 (6% increase from last year)

JTD1972 · Jun 9, 2005

lord_helmet said:
if you have any information on how i can get more money besides my key bank loan, please do tell (i'll buy ya dinner too)

Why not go with Nelnet? You can take out 45K.

lord_helmet said:
oh, and just so ya know, school tuition is now $31800 (6% increase from last year)

Where'd you get this figure? Is that figure including the new health insurance policy?

Caverject · Jun 9, 2005

lord_helmet said:
sorry about the delay getting back to you. I go to the Nevada school. Yes, we are accredited. however, no federal money. also, some private lenders will no longer give loans out to students whose schools are not title IV. if you have any information on how i can get more money besides my key bank loan, please do tell (i'll buy ya dinner too)
oh, and just so ya know, school tuition is now $31800 (6% increase from last year)

What do you think Title IV stands for?

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