P1 hicp students

[lava2]

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Yes, it is true. It just happened on Friday. Pretty sad huh? You should already know who did that was the Interim Dean. 😡

I don't even know what to think. Currently, some students are twisting the stories around trying to make Dr. Batz and Dr. Miyahara the bad guys which they are really not. There is no more good, honest pharmacist at HICP anymore. They have all gone.

You got that right. The last PharmD left in this College of Pharmacy, I'm sure is counting her days. What? Have qualified Pharmacist working at Hawaii College of Pharmacy? That makes too much sense. I wouldn't give the Interimn Dean and his puppet masters that much credit.
If you have the slightest clue of what it takes to run a Pharmacy school or even teach at one you are too much of a threat and your job is in danger.

Literally.
They want no one remaining with common sense, ethics, morals, or even knowledge on how a professional orgainization is suppose to be administered. Whatttttt.....That would be the correct thing to do.. Oh yea, but that wouln't follow the pattern created by the founders, Ms. Agricultural Economist and Mr. Ed.D in Liberal Arts or something, there pattern is to lie, misinform, mislead, give false hope, and promise a degree that they knowingly new would not be attainable based on their conduct and actions towards ACPE.
Hmmmm.. I think they've breached their contract to give you a Pharmacy degree within the 3 year program that crumbled at the end of the first year. They've also breached contract on their agreement by behaving and conducting business in an unethical and immoral fashion,,, continously. They are Negligent in creating, organizing and developing a College of Pharmacy with the sole purpose to make money and not to be Educators of a Health Profession.
Just put 1 +1 together, or you can let your lawyers do it for you. I'm sure there are numerous counts that can be brought forward on them.

 

[jdpharmd?]

Well, it's the end of the academic year...you might want to re-ask that question if, come September, there are students still there. It's not that easy to leave the islands...you can't just pack everything up in a U-Haul and evacuate right after finals. 😉 You've gotta ship your car and everything else back to the mainland.

What is their class schedule like? Being a 3-year program (or perhaps a 1 year program..), I assumed that they would have classes year-round. We just finished our academic quarter last week, but we start classes again on Tuesday.

 

[Caverject]

C-Jet,

I am sad to know a person like you will be a pharmacist...a person who laughs at other people's misfortunes and misery. Would you be laughing infront of your dying patient? Do you consider yourself a compassionate person? I suggest you ask yourself that question before you become a pharmacist.

I'm sorry that you and hancanada don't find pharmgurl's post funny. I am sorry that you don't find the word salmander hilarious. I find the situation that criswell and monroe are in funny because they are going to be so screwed once you guys get your lawsuit going. I've said in the past, I feel bad for those of you that were duped into going. I still feel for those students. Currently, I am working with one of your classmates at HICP to get them in somewhere else.

As far as being a compassionate person, the people that know me on this board personally like Banana, FutureRxGal, ZpackSux, JD, LVpharm etc could vouch for how much of a compassionate person I am. Maybe for the fact I created the thread to begin with that says *Attention HICP Students* with 7 different points shows compassion to you? I didn't have to spend 2 hours of my time to do that. I did it because I care. There is much more to me than my SDN persona, just like everyone else here. I have kick started many programs in the Savannah community like Operation Diabetes, Operation Immunization, Heartburn Awareness Challenge, APhA-ASP Community Reach-Out program where we go and paint houses for no cost to people that can't afford it, and I helped kick start the Dirty Germs program. I have also done a lot of things on a national level with APhA and ASHP as well. I believe I have a lot of compassion

 

[LVPharm]

What is their class schedule like? Being a 3-year program (or perhaps a 1 year program..), I assumed that they would have classes year-round. We just finished our academic quarter last week, but we start classes again on Tuesday.

It's just an assumption on my part. I can't say what their scedule is, but since my school is also a 3 year program, the official academic school year starts at the end of August/beginning of September. We have a couple of rotations during the summer.

 

[hancanada]

You got that right. They want no one remaining with common sense, ethics, morals, or even knowledge on how a professional orgainization is suppose to be administered. Hmmmm.. I think they've breached their contract to give you a Pharmacy degree within the 3 year program that crumbled at the end of the first year. They've also breached contract on their agreement by behaving and conducting business in an unethical and immoral fashion,,, continously. They are Negligent in creating, organizing and developing a College of Pharmacy with the sole purpose to make money and not to be Educators of a Health Profession.
Just put 1 +1 together, or you can let your lawyers do it for you. I'm sure there are numerous counts that can be brought forward on them.

TOTALLY AGREE!

 

[Steady-State]

I'm sorry that you and hancanada don't find pharmgurl's post funny. I am sorry that you don't find the word salmander hilarious. I find the situation that criswell and monroe are in funny because they are going to be so screwed once you guys get your lawsuit going. I've said in the past, I feel bad for those of you that were duped into going. I still feel for those students. Currently, I am working with one of your classmates at HICP to get them in somewhere else.

As far as being a compassionate person, the people that know me on this board personally like Banana, FutureRxGal, ZpackSux, JD, LVpharm etc could vouch for how much of a compassionate person I am. Maybe for the fact I created the thread to begin with that says *Attention HICP Students* with 7 different points shows compassion to you? I didn't have to spend 2 hours of my time to do that. I did it because I care. There is much more to me than my SDN persona, just like everyone else here. I have kick started many programs in the Savannah community like Operation Diabetes, Operation Immunization, Heartburn Awareness Challenge, APhA-ASP Community Reach-Out program where we go and paint houses for no cost to people that can't afford it, and I helped kick start the Dirty Germs program. I have also done a lot of things on a national level with APhA and ASHP as well. I believe I have a lot of compassion

C-Ject,

You are a compassionate person. I'm sure you will make a good pharmacist. This is a bad situation and we can only learn from our mistakes. I hope new state laws or policies at ACPE can be made in the future to protect students. Perhaps make more information about a schools misconduct can be made more public. It was unclear if the school failed the pre-candidate process. The school lied to us and said, "because they admitted students, it does not make them eligable for pre-candidate and now they must apply for candidate."

In the end of all this, students got hurt, their families, their savings, their time was lost. How can something like this happen in the profession of pharmacy? So your telling me this can happen again, tomorrow in another place?

 

[Caverject]

C-Ject,

You are a compassionate person. I'm sure you will make a good pharmacist. This is a bad situation and we can only learn from our mistakes. I hope new state laws or policies at ACPE can be made in the future to protect students. Perhaps make more information about a schools misconduct can be made more public. It was unclear if the school failed the pre-candidate process. The school lied to us and said, "because they admitted students, it does not make them eligable for pre-candidate and now they must apply for candidate."

In the end of all this, students got hurt, their families, their savings, their time was lost. How can something like this happen in the profession of pharmacy? So your telling me this can happen again, tomorrow in another place?

SS,

Thank you for the compliment. I honestly believe it is happening again in Iowa. All it takes is a really good salesman to do this. I don't even know how you guys put up with even staying there to finish out the quarter. My blood would be boiling knowing what you guys know, thus it wouldn't be a good environment for me to be there! I think HICP is the exact reason why ACPE has toughen it's standards now.

 

[lava2]

I'm sorry that you and hancanada don't find pharmgurl's post funny. I am sorry that you don't find the word salmander hilarious. I find the situation that criswell and monroe are in funny because they are going to be so screwed once you guys get your lawsuit going. I've said in the past, I feel bad for those of you that were duped into going. I still feel for those students. Currently, I am working with one of your classmates at HICP to get them in somewhere else.

As far as being a compassionate person, the people that know me on this board personally like Banana, FutureRxGal, ZpackSux, JD, LVpharm etc could vouch for how much of a compassionate person I am. Maybe for the fact I created the thread to begin with that says *Attention HICP Students* with 7 different points shows compassion to you? I didn't have to spend 2 hours of my time to do that. I did it because I care. There is much more to me than my SDN persona, just like everyone else here. I have kick started many programs in the Savannah community like Operation Diabetes, Operation Immunization, Heartburn Awareness Challenge, APhA-ASP Community Reach-Out program where we go and paint houses for no cost to people that can't afford it, and I helped kick start the Dirty Germs program. I have also done a lot of things on a national level with APhA and ASHP as well. I believe I have a lot of compassion

I'm sure you're an excellent person, but one must keep in mind that this situation has drastically altered the lives of many individuals attending HICP, therefore, making them very emotional when mocked, whether you're joking or not.
We all must just keep an open mind, when taking in criticism.

 

[lava2]

Has anyone bothered to even do the research and inquire about how the State of Hawaii's Conumer Affairs and Commerce Depart. can assist the HICP students?

I believe they haven't been conducting business manners in a very ethical way, violating perhaps some state statutes or something?
Also, perhaps the HPha organization can do something as far as spreading the word to Hawaii's pharmacist of how this school is conducting business, and not following ACPE standard in grading, class scheduling, etc.
Students, if you need someone to help you get the word out to the community about this school, I suggest contacting maybe Ron Taniguchi of HPha, and others affiliated with UHHIlo's pharmacy program, perhaps they can assist, they do have many
contacts through out the state, and have always had a bad feeling about HICP.

Also, Does anyone know if APha can do anything about spreading the word of how unethical the leadership at HICP is, to warn any and all faculty applicants?
Maybe someone should write an article on the rise and Fall of HICP.

Just to add to the fire: The CFO and Interim Dean who are doing all the hiring for faculty are so desperate that they are literally taking anyone with a PharmD, even if they have no concept on how to speak in front of students, teach, prepare for a course, basically with ZERO Academic experience. So if you managed to buy yourself a PharmD degree in some foreign country, you got a nice paying job a HICP.
It's literally that bad.
That is why they have left the Qualified PharmD's out of the hiring process, because they actually want qualified people to work there. Oh, but what Pharmacist?, there all gone now, except for 1, who still has no say on any administrative decision making evethough she is an administrator.
THE INTERIMN DEAN WAS APPOINTED BY CORPORATE, when he was not chosen by his peers. The wonder the CFO (corporate's college rep.) is the Interim's DEan bossom buddy. But, "Corporate has taken a hands off approach" H.A. Hasan. Sounds more like a hands ON approach with full authority to rule over the College at will.
Basically, the Interim Dean doesn't even fart without calling Monroe for permission to do so.

 

[DayDreamer]

Honestly, everything at HICP is going downhill. If you haven't seen it by now, then you are in denial or just don't want to see it. I thank everybody here with different opinions and ideas and perspective on this subject.

Caverject, thank you for all your insight and bringing up another point of view. You are a caring person because if you weren't you would not be writing on this SDN forum at all. You are only the few who hear the cries of HICP. Many people really just don't care about HICP, and that's just reality. It's good to hear all sides of the stories from an outside perspective since most HICP students are caught up in all the issues. Some pharmacists are cynical and could treat us worse than what we see already.

 

[ucrsandstorm]

I'm sorry that you and hancanada don't find pharmgurl's post funny. I am sorry that you don't find the word salmander hilarious. I find the situation that criswell and monroe are in funny because they are going to be so screwed once you guys get your lawsuit going. I've said in the past, I feel bad for those of you that were duped into going. I still feel for those students. Currently, I am working with one of your classmates at HICP to get them in somewhere else.

As far as being a compassionate person, the people that know me on this board personally like Banana, FutureRxGal, ZpackSux, JD, LVpharm etc could vouch for how much of a compassionate person I am. Maybe for the fact I created the thread to begin with that says *Attention HICP Students* with 7 different points shows compassion to you? I didn't have to spend 2 hours of my time to do that. I did it because I care. There is much more to me than my SDN persona, just like everyone else here. I have kick started many programs in the Savannah community like Operation Diabetes, Operation Immunization, Heartburn Awareness Challenge, APhA-ASP Community Reach-Out program where we go and paint houses for no cost to people that can't afford it, and I helped kick start the Dirty Germs program. I have also done a lot of things on a national level with APhA and ASHP as well. I believe I have a lot of compassion

C-ject has been helping people out on SDN for the longest time. Whenever, someone has a question or concern he is willing to donate his time and help. C-ject and the crew at SDN is a great help to everyone and it is hard to accept the reality of the situation but its only, TRUE. C-ject also has a good sense of humor and when people can laugh at the situation then maybe we will feel confortable with ourselves and the decisions that we make.

Sometimes the truth hurts but I rather have the truth than being lied to everyday while I'm in pharmacy school.

Thanks C-ject for really caring about students and helping students through this difficult time.

Semper Fi

 

[imperial frog]

C-Jet,

I am sad to know a person like you will be a pharmacist...a person who laughs at other people's misfortunes and misery. Would you be laughing infront of your dying patient? Do you consider yourself a compassionate person? I suggest you ask yourself that question before you become a pharmacist.

Because lord knows that everyone will respond in every facet of their lives as they do here on this board.

Hint...he's not laughing at the misfortune that HICP is causing, he's making commentary about the responses that have been posted in support of HICP despite the endless stream of ineptitude that the school has so far exhibited.

But if you want to make the same comparison as you just did...do you want people like the heretofore mentioned HICP posters to be pharmacists? I mean if they respond the same way to patients as they do here, they would never attempt to alter a medication regimen that is actually harming their patient because they have blind faith that everything will work out in the end if they just stick with it and have faith in the manufacturers.

See how your condemnation of C-jet kind of misses the mark?

 

[hancanada]

Has anyone bothered to even do the research and inquire about how the State of Hawaii's Conumer Affairs and Commerce Depart. can assist the HICP students?

I believe they haven't been conducting business manners in a very ethical way, violating perhaps some state statutes or something?
Also, perhaps the HPha organization can do something as far as spreading the word to Hawaii's pharmacist of how this school is conducting business, and not following ACPE standard in grading, class scheduling, etc.
Students, if you need someone to help you get the word out to the community about this school, I suggest contacting maybe Ron Taniguchi of HPha, and others affiliated with UHHIlo's pharmacy program, perhaps they can assist, they do have many
contacts through out the state, and have always had a bad feeling about HICP.

Also, Does anyone know if APha can do anything about spreading the word of how unethical the leadership at HICP is, to warn any and all faculty applicants?
Maybe someone should write an article on the rise and Fall of HICP.

Just to add to the fire: The CFO and Interim Dean who are doing all the hiring for faculty are so desperate that they are literally taking anyone with a PharmD, even if they have no concept on how to speak in front of students, teach, prepare for a course, basically with ZERO Academic experience. So if you managed to buy yourself a PharmD degree in some foreign country, you got a nice paying job a HICP.
It's literally that bad.
That is why they have left the Qualified PharmD's out of the hiring process, because they actually want qualified people to work there. Oh, but what Pharmacist?, there all gone now, except for 1, who still has no say on any administrative decision making evethough she is an administrator.
THE INTERIMN DEAN WAS APPOINTED BY CORPORATE, when he was not chosen by his peers. The wonder the CFO (corporate's college rep.) is the Interim's DEan bossom buddy. But, "Corporate has taken a hands off approach" H.A. Hasan. Sounds more like a hands ON approach with full authority to rule over the College at will.
Basically, the Interim Dean doesn't even fart without calling Monroe for permission to do so.

Lava2, I believe they registered with Nevada state not Hawaii.

 

[lava2]

Let it be known that thus so far the students at HICP have received quality education and have been on track with a 3 year PharmD program. Though they are in a non-accredited institution, there shouldn't be any reason for the students who deserve to be in a pharmacy school not to be able to apply in June 2005 as P1 in a pharmacy school of their choice.
If you truly do have a passion for the pharmacy profession you will not allow what HICP has done to you to be an obstacle in persuing your goal.
Take what you have learned at HICP and use it to your benefit, it will make you a much stronger applicant when reapplying for 2006. As well, fight for your reimbursement and voice yourself to the HICP dictators to show them that you will not stand by passive as this is done to you and your life.

So please, allow this experience to make you a stronger, more passionate and knowledgable individual.
There is light at the end of the tunnel, but probably not at HICP. Look for it somewhere else and you WILL find it.

 

[lava2]

Lava2, I believe they registered with Nevada state not Hawaii.

Yes, they were incorporated in the state of Nevada, but they are registered and licensed in the state of Hawaii in order to operate as Pacific Educational Services. Therefore, Pacific Educational Services (business organization for higher education) is under the jurisdiction of the state of Hawaii and can be reprimanded only by Hawaii's Dept. of Consumer Affairs and Commerce. In other words they can take their business and practicing license away if found guilty.

Anyone have any connections in the state Department?????? hmmmmm use them now... 🙄 🙄

 

[SomeGuy]

Ouch, they incorporated in a tax-haven...

 

[lava2]

This is for the PharmD's out there that are knoweldgable regarding ACPE standards and guidelines.
Does the fact that HICP has zero Full time faculty members ( that actually teach) at this time affect them with ACPE when resubmitting for canidate status (October 05 or Jan 06--might be even later at their rate)? Also the fact that they currently have 1 Interimn Dean and 1 Administrator(with a PharmD) that make up the whole Administration? They do have part time professors that remain, but these are contracted only for P1. Take in mind that full time teaching faculty is ZERO!, since Dr. Batz was the ONLY FULL TIME FACULTY professor from jan-may05 m(and a good one regardless of what the non-qualified pharmacy students say.

 

[lava2]

Okay, so here's the count. one month 15 days left for the end of P1 at HICP and there is No DEan, No Assistant of Student Affairs and Academics, Zero full time faculty(that actually teach), The executive assistant to the Dean position has now been deleted and the person fired, and all the other positions that were needed since last year have not been filled.
The only people(that actually are on campus M-F) left in the Academic section of the Pharmacy school made up with 235 or so students are the Interimn Dean (not a PharmD), the Assistant Dean of Clinical Practice (pharmD), there two assistants(staff support), the librarian(staff), the t.a's(staff), the assistant in student services(staff), and the two tech guys(staff).

So does this school really look like it's running smoothly and is organized appropriately for a College of Pharmacy?????Specially for the "unprecidented"class size?

Don't think so. Please all applicants for the 2006 class withdraw your application if you have any common sense.
Oh and the Assistant Dean of Clinical Practice, who knows how long she'll last.

 

[hancanada]

Okay, so here's the count. one month 15 days left for the end of P1 at HICP and there is No DEan, No Assistant of Student Affairs and Academics, Zero full time faculty(that actually teach), The executive assistant to the Dean position has now been deleted and the person fired, and all the other positions that were needed since last year have not been filled.
The only people(that actually are on campus M-F) left in the Academic section of the Pharmacy school made up with 235 or so students are the Interimn Dean (not a PharmD), the Assistant Dean of Clinical Practice (pharmD), there two assistants(staff support), the librarian(staff), the t.a's(staff), the assistant in student services(staff), and the two tech guys(staff).

So does this school really look like it's running smoothly and is organized appropriately for a College of Pharmacy?????Specially for the "unprecidented"class size?

Don't think so. Please all applicants for the 2006 class withdraw your application if you have any common sense.
Oh and the Assistant Dean of Clinical Practice, who knows how long she'll last.

Do you think if the class size reduces to 50 to 70 students for next year, will they get accreditation? How the school is going to apply for regional acceditation?

 

[Jeddevil]

Do you think if the class size reduces to 50 to 70 students for next year, will they get accreditation? How the school is going to apply for regional acceditation?

NO!!! HICP has screwed up the application process so bad and have now screwed over so many students, they will never get accredidation. The amount of students in the class doesn't matter at all now that they have made so many other errors and shown the world that they were only in it to suck 30,000 a year off of 240 students or so.

HICP is the type of school that makes the pharmacy profession look bad, and is an embarassment to all of us. Good luck in your lawsuit students, you should have a decent case if you don't stall forever in getting it going.

 

[jdpharmd?]

Do you think if the class size reduces to 50 to 70 students for next year, will they get accreditation? How the school is going to apply for regional acceditation?

No. In my opinion HICP will be gone within the next few years. Even if they still exist, I doubt that they will have gotten candidate status, or even pre-candidate status, even after you "graduate" (2009?). That would be a COMPLETE waste of money, and you couldnt' even take the boards or do your intern hours. Save your money, improve your grades, and apply elsewhere for next year. A lot of people at HICP are in this situation because it was an easy answer last year... the school was cake to get into, and located in paradise. They gave up on any other schools. Now look what they're facing...

 

[GetLost_Hawaii]

Some HICP students still have some hope because the school told us the reason that can not get candidate status is class size. Therefore, some HICP students believe that reducing class size next year will make the school get candidate status...

 

[lisi]

Just a couple of opinions for what they're worth......

I really think the Hawaii Consumer Protection Agency should be able to help students. Also, the idea about contacting the Hawaii Pharmacist's Association is a good one as well. You may be able to find someone there who is connected and can get you some help from within the state.

I'll say it again...ACPE is not the venue to explore retribution against HICP. ACPE either grants accreditation or not, based on its published standards. They've already recommended that HICP withdraw their application for candidate status. They don't have legal authority to stop HICP from continuing their program or from continuing to admit students. I think you have seen ACPE take action in that the revised standards now require regional accreditation (and at the risk of being redundant, I'll reiterate that HICP students should be asking about that). Regional accreditation is a much bigger deal and requires alot of work and preparation on the part of the applicant College or Universities. I've also heard that WASC is one of the tougher regional accrediting agencies (but take that for what it is....I haven't compared regional accreditation standards across the country, so I couldn't really say). However, in general, regional accreditation, because it is accreditation of an entire institution, rather than just one program will look at the organization of an institution, how it is run, how it is governed, how decisions are made, financial policies, etc. in a much more all-encompassing manner than ACPE would. In other words, HICP will not be able to simply take the stuff they've submitted to ACPE--even if it were pristene and followed ACPE standards to the letter--and submit it to WASC.

A couple of earlier posts asked about accreditation issues regarding faculty and class size. Not having adequate numbers of full-time faculty will be an issue for ACPE accreditation. Although the standards are not specific regarding actual numbers, most programs go by a "rule of thumb" of needing about 1 full-time faculty member for every 10 students. There is more to the role of being a faculty member than just showing up to class. The design and delivery of the curriculum as well as the curricular content should represent a joint effort by all faculty and should be approved by the faculty as a whole. Admissions and admission policies typically are also the purview of the faculty and not dictated by the administration. Particularly in a new school, there are alot of policies and procedures that need to be put in place, evaluated, and changed if necessary. There's alot of effort put forth by faculty outside of the classroom in order to keep a program running smoothly and in compliance with accreditation standards. So not having enough core faculty will be an issue for accreditation.

Not having a chief administrator for the program will also be an issue (e.g., not an "interim"), and as I've stated in earlier posts, the dean needs to be qualified.

Decreasing the class size next year won't solve the accreditation issues either. Regardless of the total number of students, a program still needs to demonstrate to ACPE that it has enough full-time, qualified faculty to allow all aspects of the program to run smoothly. The program will also need to have some clear definition as to how it will accomplish the experiential component of the curriculum (enough sites, enough qualified preceptors, etc.) Just like you all, I've read what ACPE has reported with regard to HICP and it seems evident that this goes beyond accepting 240 students into its initial class (however ill-advised that move was).

Like LVPharm, I'm truly saddened by this. Ultimately, it is the students who have paid the price (figuratively and literally) and I hope all HICP students find a resolution to their situation.

I also agree that on the surface, at least, the proposed school in Iowa looks to be heading down the HICP path.

 

[hancanada]

Just a couple of opinions for what they're worth......

I really think the Hawaii Consumer Protection Agency should be able to help students. Also, the idea about contacting the Hawaii Pharmacist's Association is a good one as well. You may be able to find someone there who is connected and can get you some help from within the state.

I'll say it again...ACPE is not the venue to explore retribution against HICP. ACPE either grants accreditation or not, based on its published standards. They've already recommended that HICP withdraw their application for candidate status. They don't have legal authority to stop HICP from continuing their program or from continuing to admit students. I think you have seen ACPE take action in that the revised standards now require regional accreditation (and at the risk of being redundant, I'll reiterate that HICP students should be asking about that). Regional accreditation is a much bigger deal and requires alot of work and preparation on the part of the applicant College or Universities. I've also heard that WASC is one of the tougher regional accrediting agencies (but take that for what it is....I haven't compared regional accreditation standards across the country, so I couldn't really say). However, in general, regional accreditation, because it is accreditation of an entire institution, rather than just one program will look at the organization of an institution, how it is run, how it is governed, how decisions are made, financial policies, etc. in a much more all-encompassing manner than ACPE would. In other words, HICP will not be able to simply take the stuff they've submitted to ACPE--even if it were pristene and followed ACPE standards to the letter--and submit it to WASC.

A couple of earlier posts asked about accreditation issues regarding faculty and class size. Not having adequate numbers of full-time faculty will be an issue for ACPE accreditation. Although the standards are not specific regarding actual numbers, most programs go by a "rule of thumb" of needing about 1 full-time faculty member for every 10 students. There is more to the role of being a faculty member than just showing up to class. The design and delivery of the curriculum as well as the curricular content should represent a joint effort by all faculty and should be approved by the faculty as a whole. Admissions and admission policies typically are also the purview of the faculty and not dictated by the administration. Particularly in a new school, there are alot of policies and procedures that need to be put in place, evaluated, and changed if necessary. There's alot of effort put forth by faculty outside of the classroom in order to keep a program running smoothly and in compliance with accreditation standards. So not having enough core faculty will be an issue for accreditation.

Not having a chief administrator for the program will also be an issue (e.g., not an "interim"), and as I've stated in earlier posts, the dean needs to be qualified.

Decreasing the class size next year won't solve the accreditation issues either. Regardless of the total number of students, a program still needs to demonstrate to ACPE that it has enough full-time, qualified faculty to allow all aspects of the program to run smoothly. The program will also need to have some clear definition as to how it will accomplish the experiential component of the curriculum (enough sites, enough qualified preceptors, etc.) Just like you all, I've read what ACPE has reported with regard to HICP and it seems evident that this goes beyond accepting 240 students into its initial class (however ill-advised that move was).

Like LVPharm, I'm truly saddened by this. Ultimately, it is the students who have paid the price (figuratively and literally) and I hope all HICP students find a resolution to their situation.

I also agree that on the surface, at least, the proposed school in Iowa looks to be heading down the HICP path.

Thanks for sharing your thought and advise, Lisi and other members!
What I heard was that they told the students that they only need to "show" ACPE the process of getting regional accreditation. They said as long as they in the process, ACPE would give the candidate status even BEFORE they get the regional accreditation.

 

[BMBiology]

“In order to be eligible for initial or continuing accreditation, the Doctor of Pharmacy program must be part of an independent College or School of Pharmacy or a College or School of Pharmacy within a University, which is regularly incorporated and is a legally empowered postsecondary educational institution. The institution housing the College or School, or the independent College or School, must be accredited by a regional/institutional accreditation agency recognized by the U.S. Department of Education or another agency acceptable to the Accreditation Council for Pharmacy Education (ACPE). Accreditation standards call for a College or School of Pharmacy as an organizational unit and the administrative structure of the College or School of Pharmacy must provide for a Dean, who serves as the chief administrative and academic officer. Evaluation for purposes of initial or continued accreditation requires an invitation by the chief executive officer, or designate, of the institution.”

HICP MUST be accredited by WASC in order to be eligible for initial accreditation. It really sounds like instead of trying to meet ACPE's standards, HICP is trying to take the shortcut. This will not work with the ACPE. I don't even think ACPE accepts the 1st year education at HICP as meeting their standards.

Instead of taking a few steps forward, the school has taken a few steps back. HICP will start this academic year with less money, no dean, no assistant dean, only a couple of full time faculty members, and a forever tanished reputation. Not only will there be a pending class action lawsuit against HICP, but money from the tuition of pharmacy students will go into the dental school. This money should only be used to gain accreditation for the pharmacy school. Furthermore, no qualify dean, or pharmacists for that matter, will accept a faculty position at HICP.

It is over. Don't make the same mistake again. Do you really want to go through this again?

 

[GetLost_Hawaii]

The school told us that new language for ACPE policy No.3 doesn't apply to HICP school because the school opened before the policy issued.
Mr. Monroe told us that HICP will be part of BYU. It is an excellent lie, huh?

 

[Jeddevil]

Mr. Monroe told us that HICP will be part of BYU. It is an excellent lie, huh?

You are joking about the BYU comment, right? How did he say you were going to pull that off?

 

[Caverject]

The school told us that new language for ACPE policy No.3 doesn't apply to HICP school because the school opened before the policy issued.
Mr. Monroe told us that HICP will be part of BYU. It is an excellent lie, huh?

I don't believe there is a grandfather policy.

 

[BMBiology]

The school told us that new language for ACPE policy No.3 doesn't apply to HICP school because the school opened before the policy issued.

As for your statement, why does the policy apply to accreditated schools like USN but then not HICP? That is just absorb.

I wonder why the administration keeps on lying to its students. Could it be because the students just eat it all up? What has happened to HICP was foreseen and we desperately tried to warn others about it but yet our warnings were ignored. Still today, I wonder why any rational person would keep hoping when it is painfully obvious that HICP will fail. Yet, some HICP students still surprise me.

 

[GetLost_Hawaii]

He told us something like this when he taught Pharmacy Law. There is no joke, Jeddevil.
BMBiology,
To me, I have no hope, but I want to stay at the end of this academic year to see what going on is. It is really hard to me to come back home and face with my family, my friends...However, I must do this. I wasted my money, my time,....and next coming year because I did not apply another school while attending HICP...I accepted my mistake. My mistake was made by unheart people 😡 😡 😡 Hope nobody do this mistake like me.
Do you know why some students still hope? They think they have a little chance, even no chance to get into another pharmacy school, and there are some reasons based on their records in the past, so...sorry I tell the truth...

 

[LVPharm]

Still today, I wonder why any rational person would keep hoping when it is painfully obvious that HICP will fail. Yet, some HICP students still surprise me.

Because when faced with having to go back home and tell folks that you may have been scammed to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars, you'll try to grasp at straws...for any alternative to having to do that. You, I, or anyone in this situation may not be entirely rational. It's easy for us because we are on the OUTSIDE of this issue.

 

[BMBiology]

Because when faced with having to go back home and tell folks that you may have been scammed to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars, you'll try to grasp at straws...for any alternative to having to do that. You, I, or anyone in this situation may not be entirely rational. It's easy for us because we are on the OUTSIDE of this issue.

or take a 50,000$ loan to stay another year and be the same position a year later. It is a tough decision but it will be a tougher decision a year later.

Why prolong it and make it worse?

 

[DayDreamer]

I also want to add more to the Hidden Story of what has happened at HICP. The entire faculty that was here: Dr. Bhagavan, Dr. Miyahara, Dr. Batz, and the rest of the faculty....didn't just got up and left. They have moved from a good job or from outside of the state to work at HICP. They left for a reason. Do you remember the day that Dr. Bhagavan was DISRESPECTED in front of the classroom? Monroe yelled out, "Hey you! Where are you going?" Dr. Bhagavan kind of motioned his hand or something. After that, Dr. Bhagavan kept walking out and just kept on walking as any professional would have.

To all the students who thought our DEAN just got up and left. He did not just leave. He cared about students. But you just don't disrespect anybody especially if they are the DEAN. There is only so much that the DEAN or any professional can take. The entire professional pharmacists have all gone because they have been DISRESPECTED somehow.

 

[LVPharm]

Do you remember the day that Dr. Bhagavan was DISRESPECTED in front of the classroom? Monroe yelled out, "Hey you! Where are you going?" Dr. Bhagavan kind of motioned his hand or something. After that, Dr. Bhagavan kept walking out and just kept on walking as any professional would have.

Just curious...what happened in this instance? What led up to it? Did the dean leave shortly thereafter?

 

[john@hicp]

I am a current student at Hawaii and wanted to address some issues about our school to at least be consider. I know HICP does not look good to alot of people right now because they are having problems with getting accreditation. I appreciate and understand your concerns and wanted to remind you that most schools struggle with accreditation, albeit HICP has more than usual. As for some of the faculty who have recently been "fired", as most us think, do you actually know for sure what was the cause for them leaving. Has there been any consideration to what these faculty members may have done? Instead of being "fired" some of the faculty members have "resigned" on their own. There seems to be too many rumors and speculation about what is truly going on at HICP. Being new to SDN and reading through the posts, I am surprised to see that current HICP students are making some of the comments. I know you guys are frustrated right now and have doubt about our program, but please I ask you to think about the consequences when you talk about our school. All we are doing is making HICP look bad to others. How else do the other students know about what is going on with our school? I understand, respect, and appreciate all the comments made by non-HICP students and staff so far. One poster I wanted to bring up was “Lisi”. It seems like she is a Professor at USN and has made a few comments on HICP and the accreditation process. I appreciate her taking the time out and providing us with invaluable information, but one thing that stuck out were the notions of filing a “civil” lawsuit and looking into the state of Hawaii’s “consumer protection agency”. I respect her comment but I question why she had to bring this up. I think it is very premature to even consider these actions. The school is still functioning normally.

Right now I may be one of the only few who still has faith and is still loyal in our school. We have invested a great amount of money, time, and effort so far into the program and I do not want any more bad publicity to affect HICP. I truly believe that HICP will make it. I can’t stop HICP and non-HICP students to express their opinions on SDN but I want them to consider what they say before they talk about HICP. I do not want them to say anything that they will regret later.

 

[BMBiology]

I truly believe that HICP will make it

What had HICP done in the past that would give you full confidence in them?

I know you are asking fellow HICP students to keep HICP secrets in the closet but how about students that are considering HICP? As a HICP student that went through hell this year, don't you feel a bit of sympathy for incoming HICP students? Shouldn't they know the facts before they make life changing decisions?

Don't you wish you had known?

 

[GetLost_Hawaii]

john@hicp,
"The school is still functioning normally."?????? Are you crazy or are you blind?
Who will regret later, huh?
Why don't you want us tell the truth at HICP? I did not make up any story about HICP. Why do you want hide the truth, huh?
Can you show me the school is still functioning normally without Dean and lack of faculty....?
"We have invested a great amount of money, time, and effort so far into the program....", but not me

 

[Caverject]

I understand, respect, and appreciate all the comments made by non-HICP students and staff so far. One poster I wanted to bring up was “Lisi”. It seems like she is a Professor at USN and has made a few comments on HICP and the accreditation process. I appreciate her taking the time out and providing us with invaluable information, but one thing that stuck out were the notions of filing a “civil” lawsuit and looking into the state of Hawaii’s “consumer protection agency”. I respect her comment but I question why she had to bring this up. I think it is very premature to even consider these actions. The school is still functioning normally.

What is your definition of normal?

Why is it premature to explore options available? As it stands, the people that own the school have committed fraud. If I was out 30k, I sure as heck would be exploring my options!

 

[lisi]

I am a current student at Hawaii and wanted to address some issues about our school to at least be consider. I know HICP does not look good to alot of people right now because they are having problems with getting accreditation. I appreciate and understand your concerns and wanted to remind you that most schools struggle with accreditation, albeit HICP has more than usual. As for some of the faculty who have recently been "fired", as most us think, do you actually know for sure what was the cause for them leaving. Has there been any consideration to what these faculty members may have done? Instead of being "fired" some of the faculty members have "resigned" on their own. There seems to be too many rumors and speculation about what is truly going on at HICP. Being new to SDN and reading through the posts, I am surprised to see that current HICP students are making some of the comments. I know you guys are frustrated right now and have doubt about our program, but please I ask you to think about the consequences when you talk about our school. All we are doing is making HICP look bad to others. How else do the other students know about what is going on with our school? I understand, respect, and appreciate all the comments made by non-HICP students and staff so far. One poster I wanted to bring up was “Lisi”. It seems like she is a Professor at USN and has made a few comments on HICP and the accreditation process. I appreciate her taking the time out and providing us with invaluable information, but one thing that stuck out were the notions of filing a “civil” lawsuit and looking into the state of Hawaii’s “consumer protection agency”. I respect her comment but I question why she had to bring this up. I think it is very premature to even consider these actions. The school is still functioning normally.

Right now I may be one of the only few who still has faith and is still loyal in our school. We have invested a great amount of money, time, and effort so far into the program and I do not want any more bad publicity to affect HICP. I truly believe that HICP will make it. I can’t stop HICP and non-HICP students to express their opinions on SDN but I want them to consider what they say before they talk about HICP. I do not want them to say anything that they will regret later.

Please review my previous posts...I've never suggested that students pursue a class action lawsuit. The consumer protection agency comment was only brought up in light of the desperation expressed by current HICP students on this forum and elsewhere. What you refer to as "bad publicity" presumably from the discussions on this forum, is not what is adversely affecting HICP. ACPE does not make decisions on rumors or innuendos, and certainly not from discussions on a student forum. You'd have a hard time convincing me that the apparent departures of several administrators or faculty have been as a result of discussions or commentary on this forum. Whatever happens, I don't think that the student doctor network is going to bring down HICP.

 

[BMBiology]

I've never suggested that students pursue a class action lawsuit.

I was the one that suggested a class action lawsuit. It is the best option for HICP students if the stories about HICP are true.

 

[hancanada]

All we are doing is making HICP look bad to others. How else do the other students know about what is going on with our school? I understand, respect, and appreciate all the comments made by non-HICP students and staff so far. One poster I wanted to bring up was “Lisi”. It seems like she is a Professor at USN and has made a few comments on HICP and the accreditation process. I appreciate her taking the time out and providing us with invaluable information, but one thing that stuck out were the notions of filing a “civil” lawsuit and looking into the state of Hawaii’s “consumer protection agency”. I respect her comment but I question why she had to bring this up. I think it is very premature to even consider these actions. The school is still functioning normally.

Right now I may be one of the only few who still has faith and is still loyal in our school. We have invested a great amount of money, time, and effort so far into the program and I do not want any more bad publicity to affect HICP. I truly believe that HICP will make it. I can’t stop HICP and non-HICP students to express their opinions on SDN but I want them to consider what they say before they talk about HICP. I do not want them to say anything that they will regret later.

The information is very valuable to all. If you want to believe in this school, go ahead and do so. There are some students who are "spy" and report to Hasan all student activities because they failed some of the classes. Who secure the grading system now for more than 235 students? I think you should figure it out what I mean by that.

 

[DayDreamer]

As you can see, there is a lot of brainwashing at the school. First of all, you are entirely in DENIAL. There are two types of students at school. Since I am a type of person to go out and do my research. Students do not want to accept reality of the situation at hand. Pretty sad huh? When they realize what has happened, it would be too late. The good students who see what is going on, it will be too late. I am not here to save anybody and everybody does need to make their own decisions on whether they want to continue or not. Did you not see what has happened in less than a year? I will tell you that students will NOT let out the stories of what has happened at HICP because of how embarassing it is.

Some students believe that it doesn't matter how you become a pharmacist as long as you become one. Doesn't matter what has happened from here on out, no matter how unethical it is... as long as you become a pharmacist. Is this twisted situation or what?

With Dr. Bhagavan leaving, he has been disrespected ever since he got there. Monroe has no respect for pharmacist and that's period. That incident is just one of many that has occur at HICP.

Professionalism has gone out the door.

 

[john@hicp]

You'd have a hard time convincing me that the apparent departures of several administrators or faculty have been as a result of discussions or commentary on this forum.

I never said that it could be the result. What I said was we are not sure what the real reasons were for them not being at HICP anymore. No one on this forum knows for sure.

 

[BMBiology]

With Dr. Bhagavan leaving, he has been disrespected ever since he got there. Monroe has no respect for pharmacist and that's period. That incident is just one of many that has occur at HICP. Professionalism has gone out the door.

It would be informative if you can tell us about what else has happened. I am sure students considering HICP would be greatly appreciated.

 

[DayDreamer]

It would be informative if you can tell us about what else has happened. I am sure students considering HICP would be greatly appreciated.

So much has happened here at HICP. What do you want to know specifically?

 

[BMBiology]

So much has happened here at HICP. What do you want to know specifically?

The lies; what have they told you guys that turned out to be false?

 

[lava2]

I am a current student at Hawaii and wanted to address some issues about our school to at least be consider. I know HICP does not look good to alot of people right now because they are having problems with getting accreditation. I appreciate and understand your concerns and wanted to remind you that most schools struggle with accreditation, albeit HICP has more than usual. As for some of the faculty who have recently been "fired", as most us think, do you actually know for sure what was the cause for them leaving. Has there been any consideration to what these faculty members may have done? Instead of being "fired" some of the faculty members have "resigned" on their own. There seems to be too many rumors and speculation about what is truly going on at HICP. Being new to SDN and reading through the posts, I am surprised to see that current HICP students are making some of the comments. I know you guys are frustrated right now and have doubt about our program, but please I ask you to think about the consequences when you talk about our school. All we are doing is making HICP look bad to others. How else do the other students know about what is going on with our school? I understand, respect, and appreciate all the comments made by non-HICP students and staff so far. One poster I wanted to bring up was “Lisi”. It seems like she is a Professor at USN and has made a few comments on HICP and the accreditation process. I appreciate her taking the time out and providing us with invaluable information, but one thing that stuck out were the notions of filing a “civil” lawsuit and looking into the state of Hawaii’s “consumer protection agency”. I respect her comment but I question why she had to bring this up. I think it is very premature to even consider these actions. The school is still functioning normally.

Right now I may be one of the only few who still has faith and is still loyal in our school. We have invested a great amount of money, time, and effort so far into the program and I do not want any more bad publicity to affect HICP. I truly believe that HICP will make it. I can’t stop HICP and non-HICP students to express their opinions on SDN but I want them to consider what they say before they talk about HICP. I do not want them to say anything that they will regret later.

WOW, I really am shocked that you being a student at HICP, seeing what occured at the last Town Hall--where the students had to go up and bring down Hasan b/c he was to chicken to face them, and you heard what he said, still believe in this school. Do you even comprehend English??? The school is NOT functioning Normally, and you only got a taste of what has been occuring in last two months last week.
It is obvious that the ones that still believe in HICP and have witnessed with their own eyes that still want to return are those students that have NO CHance anywhere else.
Go ahead stay in the house that's on fire with hope that it might be saved, any other person with common sense would run out saying "Fire, Fire."

But, I must give you credit for being optomistic and loyal towards the College regardless of what you've read and seen.

Regarding lisi, I'm extremely appreaciative that she as well as others have given students the proper advice on what to do and have alway spoken with the truth regarding HICP. It is unfortunate that Hicp students didn't quite understand at the moment what they were trying to save us from.

 

[DayDreamer]

Oh, the lies....

Starting off .....Before students had showed up to orientation week, the students were told that only 130 students were accepted. The number 130 was lingering around the students head. Until the day of orientation week, 250 students had showed up. None of the students knew or heard that 250 students were admitted. Dr. Criswell, the CEO, had spoke with us and said that ACPE KNEW that 240 students were there and that is was OKAY. Everything would be fine and ACPE told Dr. Criswell that they just needed to accommodate all of the 250 students. I’m sure if students knew that 250 students at HICP were not okay with ACPE, the students would have left the program.

The building that was supposed to be built was promised to the students from the beginning. Dr. Criswell said that the building was supposed to “break ground” by Oct or Nov 2004. It has NEVER even broke ground to this day.

 

[lava2]

The information is very valuable to all. If you want to believe in this school, go ahead and do so. There are some students who are "spy" and report to Hasan all student activities because they failed some of the classes. Who secure the grading system now for more than 235 students? I think you should figure it out what I mean by that.

That is a stated fact, about Hasan having spies in the classroom.

 

[BMBiology]

and you heard what he said, still believe in this school. Do you even comprehend English???

What did he say to you guys?