MD & DO Pathway to Academic Oncology Specialization in Lung Cancer

[halcyon_]

big dreamer here: if you were starting out as a first year med student, what is the path you’d take to secure a dream job specializing in lung cancer and related environmental research/advocacy at an academic medical center? what about while adding on an MBA and wanting to combine academia with entrepreneurship to find better lung cancer therapies?

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[GoSpursGo]

First of all, you're describing separate careers--you probably wind up having to pick environmental research/advocacy OR entrepreneurship. And I'm not sure that an MBA really helps with your second career path. While an MBA could theoretically help you if you're in administration and running a hospital or healthcare system, from my perspective successful entrepreneurship comes down to being really good at innovative discovery research. Find something that works and that nobody else has come up with, and you'll figure out a way to market it. In fact, major academic medical centers have whole departments dedicated to figuring out how to license intellectual property to companies or spin off your own start up, so I wouldn't worry about gaining those skills on your own.

I can't speak to environmental research/advocacy, but again being successful in entrepreneurship comes down to being really good at basic science research. If that is TRULY your passion... then I'd seriously consider getting an MD/PhD. To hop on the treadmill of academic medicine you need to get grants to fund your lab, and to get grants you need publications/preliminary data, and to get THOSE you need protected time where you don't need to be in clinic seeing patients. You CAN get that time later during a heme/onc fellowship, and in some respects that makes more financial sense because you're going to get paid for those years as a fellow rather than as a grad student; the downside is that you're not going to be fully protected as a fellow, as you will undoubtedly still have some clinical responsibilities, and not every heme/onc fellowship is geared towards training physician scientists. If you come into fellowship with your pubs from your PhD already banked, you're just going to be at a leg up on all the other fellows who are starting from scratch in generating data.

If getting a PhD is not appealing to you, then I would start networking. There are a number of competitive but high-profile fellowships which can serve as a launching board for an academic career. Two which are well-regarded and have threads on the first page of this forum are the NIH MRSP and the MSKCC summer fellowship. Getting those kinds of experiences on your CV will definitely help you stand out when you're applying for the kinds of IM residencies that can then feed to the heme/onc fellowships that produce the leaders in the field.

Again... not saying that anyone NEEDS to do any of this. You can certainly just "do well" in med school and find your way to a solid residency and then a solid fellowship and then figure out the academic game at that point. But you're going to need to get that protected lab time at some point, either early in your career or later in your training. If you seriously are aiming for the endgame where you're at a major academic medical center generating novel and patentable lung cancer therapeutics... then I would consider these options.

Source: I'm an academic peds heme/onc.

 

[halcyon_]

First of all, you're describing separate careers--you probably wind up having to pick environmental research/advocacy OR entrepreneurship. And I'm not sure that an MBA really helps with your second career path. While an MBA could theoretically help you if you're in administration and running a hospital or healthcare system, from my perspective successful entrepreneurship comes down to being really good at innovative discovery research. Find something that works and that nobody else has come up with, and you'll figure out a way to market it. In fact, major academic medical centers have whole departments dedicated to figuring out how to license intellectual property to companies or spin off your own start up, so I wouldn't worry about gaining those skills on your own.

I can't speak to environmental research/advocacy, but again being successful in entrepreneurship comes down to being really good at basic science research. If that is TRULY your passion... then I'd seriously consider getting an MD/PhD. To hop on the treadmill of academic medicine you need to get grants to fund your lab, and to get grants you need publications/preliminary data, and to get THOSE you need protected time where you don't need to be in clinic seeing patients. You CAN get that time later during a heme/onc fellowship, and in some respects that makes more financial sense because you're going to get paid for those years as a fellow rather than as a grad student; the downside is that you're not going to be fully protected as a fellow, as you will undoubtedly still have some clinical responsibilities, and not every heme/onc fellowship is geared towards training physician scientists. If you come into fellowship with your pubs from your PhD already banked, you're just going to be at a leg up on all the other fellows who are starting from scratch in generating data.

If getting a PhD is not appealing to you, then I would start networking. There are a number of competitive but high-profile fellowships which can serve as a launching board for an academic career. Two which are well-regarded and have threads on the first page of this forum are the NIH MRSP and the MSKCC summer fellowship. Getting those kinds of experiences on your CV will definitely help you stand out when you're applying for the kinds of IM residencies that can then feed to the heme/onc fellowships that produce the leaders in the field.

Again... not saying that anyone NEEDS to do any of this. You can certainly just "do well" in med school and find your way to a solid residency and then a solid fellowship and then figure out the academic game at that point. But you're going to need to get that protected lab time at some point, either early in your career or later in your training. If you seriously are aiming for the endgame where you're at a major academic medical center generating novel and patentable lung cancer therapeutics... then I would consider these options.

Source: I'm an academic peds heme/onc.

thank you so much! this is really helpful. I've heard others suggesting MD/PhD but I am already in a regular MD program and at our school, it would take about 10 yrs total to finish an MD/PhD. Are there significant limitations in lab grant funding with just an MD? Would significant basic science research be a prerequisite?

I've also been advised to instead partner with PhDs who are excellent at basic sciences and focus on translation to clinical trials. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[GoSpursGo]

thank you so much! this is really helpful. I've heard others suggesting MD/PhD but I am already in a regular MD program and at our school, it would take about 10 yrs total to finish an MD/PhD. Are there significant limitations in lab grant funding with just an MD? Would significant basic science research be a prerequisite?

I've also been advised to instead partner with PhDs who are excellent at basic sciences and focus on translation to clinical trials. What are your thoughts on this?

Yeah significant basic science research is going to be a prerequisite to getting grant funding. It doesn’t have to be with a PhD, and as I said there is some advantage to pursuing it later when you’re being paid as a fellow rather than as a grad student. But you can either get the protected time early, or you can do it late.

Your latter suggestion is sort of what I’m trying to do now. But I feel time in a lab is still highly valuable to interface with other labs even as a translational person

 

[Goro]

big dreamer here: if you were starting out as a first year med student, what is the path you’d take to secure a dream job specializing in lung cancer and related environmental research/advocacy at an academic medical center? what about while adding on an MBA and wanting to combine academia with entrepreneurship to find better lung cancer therapies?

Wise @gutonc , any thougts?

 

[halcyon_]

Wise @gutonc , any thougts?

thank you for bumping @Goro !

 

[Med Ed]

big dreamer here: if you were starting out as a first year med student, what is the path you’d take to secure a dream job specializing in lung cancer and related environmental research/advocacy at an academic medical center? what about while adding on an MBA and wanting to combine academia with entrepreneurship to find better lung cancer therapies?

Start simple.

The first major step will be securing a residency position at a solid university-based IM program. Broadly speaking, three things you can do between now and match day 2025 are:

1. Study hard and learn as much of this medicine stuff as you can
2. Work on developing your clinical skills as much as possible
3. Find a cancer-related research project to get involved with, basic science or translational (it doesn't matter at this stage)

If you haven't already, look around the heme/onc fellowship pages of different programs, like NIH, MSK, Vanderbilt, etc.

As time moves along your goals and circumstances will evolve in ways you cannot anticipate. The point is to just move in a positive direction and take opportunities as they arise.

 

[gutonc]

Wise @gutonc , any thougts?

It goes without saying that you need to work hard and develop good relationships with mentors.

Some other thoughts:
Don't waste time on an M.X.X or PhD.
Start early in clinical/translational research.
Let your interests take you where they go. By the time residency application season comes around, you may wind up wanting to be a thoracic surgeon, or a radiation oncologist, or a pathologist.