People have given up on the quarantine.

[TheBlaah]

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I wonder what the flu death rate would be sans vaccine?

I should go on record and I say I don't oppose what we're done so far in response (other than wishing we'd had testing/PPE up to speed earlier), so this really is just musing not saying "OMG COVID is just the flu we're overreacting!"

It would probably be similar, maybe slightly less since people still have at least a partial antibody response.

I'd imagine the infection rate would be much lower than COVID though since there's no asymptomatic transmission.

 

[Old Timer]

So I just went and got my hair cut. So weird...

The rule was to wear a mask and to “keep talking to a minimum” as to avoid transmission of COVID.

I threw on my mask and kept silent the whole time. The shop was quite busy. Do I think I contracted covid? Nope - not at all.. But who knows right?

I guess that is the best part of the opposite side of this argument is the fact that they get to claim the possibility of invisible “happenings” and apply blame based on speculation that certainly “could happen”..

But damn I look good.. like a boss...

It's like putting on a blindfold and crossing the expressway at rush hour. So you make it through a few times. Sooner or later you are going to get creamed. All it takes is for one of the barbers to get sick. Let's say the shop has 5 barbers. These barbers see 14-15 people per day. Each person they infect will infect about 30 people. Let the 14 day incubation period factor in and your little shop can infect 1000's of people before anyone notices they are sick. Your little shop can have a nice little epidemic. It's fine now as no barber is infected. But can you gauarantee that none of the barbers will get the virus in 4-6 weeks when you get your next hair cut?

Just like this little outbreak in Arkansas:

Two people caused at least 61 infections and 4 deaths. It's genius.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

It's like putting on a blindfold and crossing the expressway at rush hour. So you make it through a few times. Sooner or later you are going to get creamed. All it takes is for one of the barbers to get sick. Let's say the shop has 5 barbers. These barbers see 14-15 people per day. Each person they infect will infect about 30 people. Let the 14 day incubation period factor in and your little shop can infect 1000's of people before anyone notices they are sick. Your little shop can have a nice little epidemic. It's fine now as no barber is infected. But can you gauarantee that none of the barbers will get the virus in 4-6 weeks when you get your next hair cut?

Just like this little outbreak in Arkansas:

View attachment 307130
Two people caused at least 61 infections and 4 deaths. It's genius.

Of the 4 dead, what were their age, sex, and co-morbidities?

Let's put this into perspective.

Arkansas had 5500 cases so far, 110 dead, 36 dead per 1 million population.

Of the 455 new cases, 3 died.

As a medical professional, it would be important to make a sound judgement which should be based on what other factors were involved in their death.

 

[owlegrad]

Lol not the a/s/l/comorbidities again 🤣

Seriously the answers to those questions are totally irrelevant.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Of the 4 dead, what were their age, sex, and co-morbidities?

Let's put this into perspective.

Arkansas had 5500 cases so far, 110 dead, 36 dead per 1 million population.

Of the 455 new cases, 3 died.

As a medical professional, it would be important to make a sound judgement which should be based on what other factors were involved in their death.

It's well known at this point that the younger healthy population has nothing to worry about.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Lol not the a/s/l/comorbidities again 🤣

Seriously the answers to those questions are totally irrelevant.

You're talking about someone dying from a disease, how are those information irrelevant? If we were to look at car accidents, should we treat all accidents the same and make policies and regulations based on that?

 

[Old Timer]

It's well known at this point that the younger healthy population has nothing to worry about.

Yep, strokes in otherwise healthy people in their 30's and 40's is nothing to worry about.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2009787?query=RP

The data at the NYU study showed:

For instance, while advanced age was by far the most
important predictor of hospitalization and an important predictor of severe outcomes (as it is for
most illnesses), 54% of hospitalized patients were younger than 65 years. This is typical of the
hospitalization pattern in viral respiratory disease. Studies of influenza hospitalizations in the
United States have found that people younger than 65 years account for 53-57% of influenzarelated
hospitalizations

In the Northwell Study:

for both patients discharged alive and those who died, the percentage of patients who were treated in the ICU or received invasive mechanical ventilation was increased for the 18-to-65 age group compared with the older-than-65 years age group

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Yep, strokes in otherwise healthy people in their 30's and 40's is nothing to worry about.

What's the rate?

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

What's the rate?

I don't think those numbers matter to him lol as long as he could come up with something to relate to covid19... if someone with covid19 dies while having sex due to the ceiling fan falling on him, this dude is gonna start telling people to stop having sex lol

 

[ValeRx]

Yep, strokes in otherwise healthy people in their 30's and 40's is nothing to worry about.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2009787?query=RP

We get it man. You're utterly terrified of COVID. Stop with the angry old man on the lawn routine. You want to hide in your basement, go ahead. The rest of us will continue on, not getting COVID, and even if we did would most likely have little to no symptoms.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Old Timer]

We get it man. You're utterly terrified of COVID. Stop with the angry old man on the lawn routine. You want to hide in your basement, go ahead. The rest of us will continue on, not getting COVID, and even if we did would most likely have little to no symptoms.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

I'm not terrified at all. I'm over 60. I just present facts. Something you chose to ignore

 

[Old Timer]

What's the rate?

It's low. But it isn't zero and the idea this is a disease of old, fat diabetics with CHF and HTN is malarkey

 

[Old Timer]

It's low. But it isn't zero and the idea this is a disease of old, fat diabetics with CHF and HTN is malarkey

I updated the post with daya from the NYU and Northwell studies. Does it kill more old people than young people, sure. But it's not 95-5

Here is a decent article that goes over that statistical effect of Covid-19 on all age groups

Does this age distribution make Covid-19 less harmful than a disease of similar infectiousness and deadliness that targeted children and young adults would be? Definitely! (I’m 56, so I think I’m allowed to say that.) But it remains a highly infectious disease that for everybody over about 40 is significantly deadlier than anything else they’re likely to encounter during the course of a normal year.

 

[JustFillIt]

It's like putting on a blindfold and crossing the expressway at rush hour. So you make it through a few times. Sooner or later you are going to get creamed. All it takes is for one of the barbers to get sick. Let's say the shop has 5 barbers. These barbers see 14-15 people per day. Each person they infect will infect about 30 people. Let the 14 day incubation period factor in and your little shop can infect 1000's of people before anyone notices they are sick. Your little shop can have a nice little epidemic. It's fine now as no barber is infected. But can you gauarantee that none of the barbers will get the virus in 4-6 weeks when you get your next hair cut?

Just like this little outbreak in Arkansas:

View attachment 307130
Two people caused at least 61 infections and 4 deaths. It's genius.

I, actually we, just can not go on living like that. Where does it end? I will be as safe as possible. We live in a social and interactive world. This is not the first time a virus has spread among humans. We have been roaming this planet for a very long time.

I will accept certain sacrifices to my quality of life (going to a concert, etc) however you can not make a good argument to convince me that the right thing to do is put 30% of our workforce out of work due to this thing.

You can play connect the dots all you want with all of the complexities involved here - but in the end it is futile.

I also went to a warehouse this morning and bought some new carpet for my new house - what if someone sneezed on this carpet? Should we shut the carpet warehouse down too?


Hell no - I have to carpet my house before I move my family into it. Life is going on wether we like it or not.

 

[Old Timer]

I, actually we, just can not go on living like that. Where does it end? I will be as safe as possible. We live in a social and interactive world. This is not the first time a virus has spread among humans. We have been roaming this planet for a very long time.

I will accept certain sacrifices to my quality of life (going to a concert, etc) however you can not make a good argument to convince me that the right thing to do is put 30% of our workforce out of work due to this thing.

You can play connect the dots all you want with all of the complexities involved here - but in the end it is futile.

I also went to a warehouse this morning and bought some new carpet for my new house - what if someone sneezed on this carpet? Should we shut the carpet warehouse down too?


Hell no - I have to carpet my house before I move my family into it. Life is going on wether we like it or not.

No you can't get Covid from carpeting even if someone coughed on it. Do be silly. Just answer a simple question. How many Americans have to die for it to be worth it? What is the number? Can you tolerate 187,954, 225,954, 1,867,320? Which number is too many, which number is too few and which number is just right.

The true lethality for this virus is 0.5-1% There are 300,000,000 million people. Do the math.

And as I have said. We don't have to shut down the economy if we do test, trace and isolate.

Also, if you open up fully and people get sick, do you think people will go to these businesses? We stop all mitigation and eveything goes back to normal? It's fools gold.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

I'm not terrified at all. I'm over 60. I just present facts. Something you chose to ignore

This explains alot. I'm done with this lol.

 

[JustFillIt]

No you can't get Covid from carpeting even if someone coughed on it. Do be silly. Just answer a simple question. How many Americans have to die for it to be worth it? What is the number? Can you tolerate 187,954, 225,954, 1,867,320? Which number is too many, which number is too few and which number is just right.

The true lethality for this virus is 0.5-1% There are 300,000,000 million people. Do the math.

And as I have said. We don't have to shut down the economy if we do test, trace and isolate.

Also, if you open up fully and people get sick, do you think people will go to these businesses? We stop all mitigation and eveything goes back to normal? It's fools gold.

The number is what it is. Speculation is not going to save us from reality that we face. Again - the simpleton approach to this will be to focus on the virus and the resulting number of dead. The real problem at hand is a complex system of economy, health, standard of living which all need to be considered.

The question is much bigger than how many people I find acceptable to die. Asking a question like that is a diversion tactic flared with sensationalism and is entirely grounded in ignorance.

I am not a monster because I got my haircut. And no cleverly crafted argument will change that.

 

[Old Timer]

The number is what it is. Speculation is not going to save us from reality that we face. Again - the simpleton approach to this will be to focus on the virus and the resulting number of dead. The real problem at hand is a complex system of economy, health, standard of living which all need to be considered.

The question is much bigger than how many people I find acceptable to die. Asking a question like that is a diversion tactic flared with sensationalism and is entirely grounded in ignorance.

I am not a monster because I got my haircut. And no cleverly crafted argument will change that.

You are not a monster because you got a haircut, You are foolish and in my opinion selfish. You risked your health and others and if we all do the same the country will suffer. The number of dead is not a diversion. It is everything. It's what we should be trying to prevent. We should do what it takes to save as many lives as possible. If it means you have look like a refugee from the 60's so be it. You will survive quite. Nicely.

I'm going to come throw some steaks on the grille and open a nice Cremant. After that, I'll tell you what we can do save the country economically and medically. If I were king....

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

It's low. But it isn't zero and the idea this is a disease of old, fat diabetics with CHF and HTN is malarkey

Of course it's not zero, no one is saying it is. But if you're a healthy person under 50 your chance of dying is very low

 

[JustFillIt]

You are not a monster because you got a haircut, You are foolish and in my opinion selfish. You risked your health and others and if we all do the same the country will suffer. The number of dead is not a diversion. It is everything. It's what we should be trying to prevent. We should do what it takes to save as many lives as possible. If it means you have look like a refugee from the 60's so be it. You will survive quite. Nicely.

I'm going to come throw some steaks on the grille and open a nice Cremant. After that, I'll tell you what we can do save the country economically and medically. If I were king....

Well fortunately for me your opinion about me will not effect my life in any way whatsoever.

So you go enjoy your expensive meat and boos and think about how a luxury as fine as that would simply not survive the test of time if you want the lower and middle class to “hide until the storm has passed”

I’m going to go grill myself a massive tomahawk stake and eat it right off the bone (no utensils) while I die laughing at my favorite TV show “impractical jokers”... 2 can play that game.. I don’t drink though.

Again - I will be as safe as possible and respect everyone around me. But, I will not sacrifice the comfort and well being of 30% of our population.

 

[wagrxm2000]

The true lethality is not 0.5 to 1% for everyone

It's much lower for healthy younger people.

No one one in this group should be afraid of this any more then getting the flu.

Remember the flu causes deaths too. Oh that's right it's not enough to matter.

 

[Sine Cura]

God let this mother rip

 

[wagrxm2000]

You are not a monster because you got a haircut, You are foolish and in my opinion selfish. You risked your health and others and if we all do the same the country will suffer. The number of dead is not a diversion. It is everything. It's what we should be trying to prevent. We should do what it takes to save as many lives as possible. If it means you have look like a refugee from the 60's so be it. You will survive quite. Nicely.

I'm going to come throw some steaks on the grille and open a nice Cremant. After that, I'll tell you what we can do save the country economically and medically. If I were king....

How in the world is he risking other people's lives?

They made the same decision. Get over this already.

Why are you even working if you don't want anyone to risk YOUR life by coming in to your place of work? This is very easy to understand, if you don't want to risk YOUR life, protect YOURSELF. Let everyone else take the risk they have the to right to take.

Like I've been saying, everyone is going out now.

How many memorial day grill outs do you think there will be Monday? None?

 

[M0df]

The new normal is acceptable casualties.

Some didn't care from the start. Now we move on.

 

[BMBiology]

Apparently the University of California is getting rid of the SAT/ACT for 4 years. I can understand if they suspend it until the pandemic is all over but all 4 years?

This hurts outperforming students from a poor family. This is their opportunity to shine.

 

[Sine Cura]

Submission of scores is optional for the next 2 cycles but the plan is to roll out a UC-specific exam. Scores to be ignored for 2023 and 2024

University of California Board of Regents unanimously approved changes to standardized testing requirement for undergraduates

The University of California Board of Regents today (May 21) unanimously approved the suspension of the standardized test requirement (ACT/SAT) for all California freshman applicants until fall 2024. The suspension will allow the University to create a new test that better aligns with the...

www.universityofcalifornia.edu

 

[BMBiology]

Some people are just opportunities. They are using this pandemic to push their agenda. Student loan forgiveness? Sure!

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

The new normal is acceptable casualties.

Some didn't care from the start. Now we move on.

No, i think some were wondering why you would only care about covid19 casualties?

 

[owlegrad]

Such a straw man. No one is saying only COVID deaths matter.

The inverse is even stranger to me. It's like as long as there are other types of death should we not care about COVID deaths? That is crazy, right?

 

[M0df]

I did not say we should only care about Covid19 casualties. Other causes of death (flu, smoking, car accidents) are under same acceptable casualties principle. What I mean is that after two plus months people got desensitized to death counts and infection rates. I am just making an observation and kind of numb to the whole thing. We might keep death rate at 1k a day. In Feb, Italy was losing 500-1000 a day and it felt like a big deal. We have been losing 1k plus for weeks now, thus it is the new norm. Unless that number goes up exponentially, we are on a set course.

Notice that I am not advocating for anything in particular to be done. I am... Indifferent

 

[lord999]

How in the world is he risking other people's lives?

They made the same decision. Get over this already.

Why are you even working if you don't want anyone to risk YOUR life by coming in to your place of work? This is very easy to understand, if you don't want to risk YOUR life, protect YOURSELF. Let everyone else take the risk they have the to right to take.

I agree completely, but I would say that we have always had to take care of the sick and risk our lives every day. Hell if I lived in Philadelphia, driving there would be more likely to kill me than any random patient (one of the reasons why I don't live there or any particularly packed urban). The sick don't have a choice BUT to risk our lives when we care for them, that is the reason they are coming to us in the first place. Most of our encounters with URI's were from patients, and we was being careful, but the contact numbers end up somewhere.

@Old Timer, we get thanked for taking a risk every two weeks, payable to your checking account. Unlike many other types of work, there are actually environments where you can be quite sterile: the clean room at a hospital or a nursing home practice, nuclear, consulting, etc. Maybe consider a non-patient care facing line of work? Dealing with stupid people directly is not something you have to do, and you do not have to leave the profession to change your relationship to work. But if you work a job that deals with the general public, then that is what you are paid to do.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Such a straw man. No one is saying only COVID deaths matter.

The inverse is even stranger to me. It's like as long as there are other types of death should we not care about COVID deaths? That is crazy, right?

No one said that huh? Interesting yet thats all some people on here care about since thats the ONLY reason, according to some, why the economy needed to shut down and we cant go outside because thats the only thing killing us. Right? No? Im confused.
If other casualties are just as important, why do you not care for them as much as covid19? Or advocate for the same precaution as covid19?

 

[Sine Cura]

Bringing up influenza is a typical sign of a COVID-19 concern troll

 

[Old Timer]

The true lethality is not 0.5 to 1% for everyone

It's much lower for healthy younger people.

No one one in this group should be afraid of this any more then getting the flu.

Remember the flu causes deaths too. Oh that's right it's not enough to matter.

The lethality for seasonal flu is 0.1%. It is not the same for all age groups either. This argument is *****ic at best and troll like at worst. No matter how you slice it seasonal flu has never stressed our healthcare system like this.

I agree completely, but I would say that we have always had to take care of the sick and risk our lives every day. Hell if I lived in Philadelphia, driving there would be more likely to kill me than any random patient (one of the reasons why I don't live there or any particularly packed urban). .

Again that is false.
Here is a decent article that goes over that statistical effect of Covid-19 on all age groups

Does this age distribution make Covid-19 less harmful than a disease of similar infectiousness and deadliness that targeted children and young adults would be? Definitely! (I’m 56, so I think I’m allowed to say that.) But it remains a highly infectious disease that for everybody over about 40 is significantly deadlier than anything else they’re likely to encounter during the course of a normal year.

You people who act like this is a choice repulses me. Lets build giant camps for old so we can remove them from society It's only about 22 million people (75 & older & 40 million if you do 65 & older) that are affected. They are going to die soon anyway. Everybody else can get infected as it has no effect on them. A few will die of strokes, but since the numbers aren't enough, f-them. Let everyone get a cold and after we have herd immunity they can come back to society,

How in the world is he risking other people's lives?

They made the same decision. Get over this already.

Why are you even working if you don't want anyone to risk YOUR life by coming in to your place of work? This is very easy to understand, if you don't want to risk YOUR life, protect YOURSELF. Let everyone else take the risk they have the to right to take.

First, whether I risk my life is really not something I don't obsess over. If I did, I wouldn't go to work. The fact that I am well compensated now and therefore I have no understanding of poor people who need their jobs is total BS. You have no idea who I am or what my life was like or that I grew up poor. The idea that I have no idea what it's like to be poor and need a job is clueless on your part.

Second when people get up in the morning and go to Bible Study, death should be in their consideration, neither should hospitalization and mechanical ventilation nor should they factor in the possibility they will die alone and the last time they will see their family is on face time with the nurses phone.

Let's force those people back to working in the meat packing industry and deny them unemployment if they don't go back. It's a choice. If they want the kob, they take the risk. Just like Ford who had to close down their recently opened assembly line because some workers tested positive. Why would they do that? They don't close their plants when people get the flu. I mean they could die of a car accident on the way to the plant. Nothing to see here.

Number of deaths from car accidents: 8,769 in a 12 week period. Covid-19 deaths in a 12 week period 100,000. Maybe we should make seat belts and air bags optional. Let people have choices. After all car accidents are random. They could save a fortune. Why should we care. It's a risk to drive a car,

And for Coronary Artery Disease, it predominantly effects the old. The average age of first heart attack is 65 for men and 72 for women. Who gives a crap about them anyway, it doesn't effect young people....

How far do you take this BS argument.

There is risk in everything you do in life. Until there is a vaccine, we should do whatever we can to protect as many people as we can. The economic choice is a false choice, Interest rates are zero, we can borrow enough money to pay people's salary for a few months. It's not total shutdown versus total reopen.

You shouldn't have to risk getting an infectious disease for which we have no cure when get a hair cut.

The idea people can be so callous about the fact when this is all said and done maybe 250,000-500,000 Americans will be dead by the time a vaccine is widely available means I am out of this thread. Call me whatever name you want. It's a sad commentary on our society.

 

[DagS132]

No one said that huh? Interesting yet thats all some people on here care about since thats the ONLY reason, according to some, why the economy needed to shut down and we cant go outside because thats the only thing killing us. Right? No? Im confused.
If other casualties are just as important, why do you not care for them as much as covid19? Or advocate for the same precaution as covid19?

lmao, to be fair everyone could have gotten infected. Then we would have seen a better number figure for deaths. If you think giving everyone an increased chance of death isn't enough reason to try to stop the spread, then I dunno what you in healthcare for.

 

[wagrxm2000]

The lethality for seasonal flu is 0.1%. It is not the same for all age groups either. This argument is *****ic at best and troll like at worst. No matter how you slice it seasonal flu has never stressed our healthcare system like this.

Nothing I said was troll like. People like myself in the healthy group have very little to worry about. You shouldn't be telling them they have a 1% chance if dying. That is far from true.

You just have extreme fears of Covid

Basically what I'm hearing is you want everyone to stay home so everyone else gets laid off and can collect unemployment

I also hope as a pharmacist you aren't telling the elderly they have a 0.1% chance of dying from the flu.

Let's look at the top preventable deaths: smoking, obesity, and alcohol. Why are you ok with these things?

Oh and don't forget about abortions

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

There is risk in everything you do in life. Until there is a vaccine, we should do whatever we can to protect as many people as we can. The economic choice is a false choice, Interest rates are zero, we can borrow enough money to pay people's salary for a few months. It's not total shutdown versus total reopen.

No one is saying that it is. Its why most places that are reopening are doing it in phases.

 

[wagrxm2000]

No one is saying that it is. Its why most places that are reopening are doing it in phases.

Exactly people should do their part and social distance.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

Nothing I said was troll like. People like myself in the healthy group have very little to worry about. You shouldn't be telling them they have a 1% chance if dying. That is far from true.

You just have extreme fears of Covid

Basically what I'm hearing is you want everyone to stay home so everyone else gets laid off and can collect unemployment

I also hope as a pharmacist you aren't telling the elderly they have a 0.1% chance of dying from the flu.

Let's look at the top preventable deaths: smoking, obesity, and alcohol. Why are you ok with these things?

@oldtimer doesnt seem to care what anyone else says unless they agree that covid19 is going to be the most apocalyptic event of our life time.

He will call anyone who disagrees with him a ***** and keeps on claiming that only what he states is the truth and facts. Doesnt seem to understand analyzing raw data and numbers is important in medicine or making any kind of judgment. He will not care about others economic well being and cry bloody murder when someone wants to open up their business to feed their family.

Basically hes a Karen.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

@oldtimer doesnt seem to care what anyone else says unless they agree that covid19 is going to be the most apocalyptic event of our life time.

I mean, there's a fair chance that this is true. We're on track to break 100k deaths in basically 3 months. We haven't had anything that deadly since 1918, so for both the Greatest Generation and the Boomers (which it sounds like OT is) this is almost certainly the most apocalyptic event of a lifetime.

I'm young enough that I might yet have something worse in my next 40-50 years of life, but I certainly hope not.

 

[owlegrad]

No one said that huh? Interesting yet thats all some people on here care about since thats the ONLY reason, according to some, why the economy needed to shut down and we cant go outside because thats the only thing killing us. Right? No? Im confused.
If other casualties are just as important, why do you not care for them as much as covid19? Or why dont you advocate to take the same precautions as covid19?

COVID is deadlier than the flu. That’s why we are treating it different from the flu.

Again I ask you, is the inverse of your argument true? As long as there are any flu deaths should we not care about COVID deaths?

You see how crazy that sounds, right?

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

COVID is deadlier than the flu. That’s why we are treating it different from the flu.

Again I ask you, is the inverse of your argument true? As long as there are any flu deaths should we not care about COVID deaths?

You see how crazy that sounds, right?

No. You seem to have a very weird view in asking an inverse question. Just because you ask me the statement I made in a question form, does not make your point any more valid. And youre not answering my question.

Here is my answer to your question. No, life in general is very important and precious. Whether covid19 or flu, we should honor life. Which brings back to my question, why dont we take the same type of precaution for other diseases that can easily spread and kill?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

No. You seem to have a very weird view in asking an inverse question. Just because you ask me the statement I made in a question form, does not make your point any more valid. And youre not answering my question.

Here is my answer to your question. No, life in general is very important and precious. Whether covid19 or flu, we should honor life. Which brings back to my question, why dont we take the same type of precaution for other diseases that can easily spread and kill?

COVID is fairly unique in that its a) fairly easily spread with a long, infectious incubation period and b) has no effective treatment or prevention.

I don't personally (or societally in truth) worry about the flu because if you get a flu shot, even if you get the flu, you are way WAY less likely to die. Flu death rate for all comers is around 0.1% we we know. The vaccine reduces ICU admissions by 80-ish%, so death rate reduction should be similar.

I don't worry that much about Ebola because there isn't a long incubation period where you're still infectious. Its also not nearly as infectious. SARS also didn't have, to my understanding, the long incubation period.

We try to vaccinate the elderly against pneumonia, and we give at-risk kids RSV antibodies during cold and flu season.

Not aware of much else that's actually easily spread in this country that's all that deadly.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

I mean, there's a fair chance that this is true. We're on track to break 100k deaths in basically 3 months. We haven't had anything that deadly since 1918, so for both the Greatest Generation and the Boomers (which it sounds like OT is) this is almost certainly the most apocalyptic event of a lifetime.

I'm young enough that I might yet have something worse in my next 40-50 years of life, but I certainly hope not.

Data and number discussion could go on for awhile but my point is, @oldtomer is a Karan.

 

[owlegrad]

No. You seem to have a very weird view in asking an inverse question. Just because you ask me the statement I made in a question form, does not make your point any more valid. And youre not answering my question.

Here is my answer to your question. No, life in general is very important and precious. Whether covid19 or flu, we should honor life. Which brings back to my question, why dont we take the same type of precaution for other diseases that can easily spread and kill?

I think I did answer your question, but I will try again. My answer is that we treat COVID differently than other diseases because it is newer than other diseases and deadlier than other diseases. Or is there a different question I didn't answer? Sorry if I missed it.

Not true. 17 million die from cardiovascular diseases, 9 million diedL of hunger, 1 million die of hiv/aids globally each year.

Maybe as a respiratory disease but again if you take out NY and NJ, numbers arent all that alarming. To a point where we need to shut the entire country and kill its economy.

Data and number discussion could go on for awhile but my point is, @oldtomer is a Karan.

But we DO take measures to try to limit other deaths. For infectious diseases we have vaccines and effective treatments. For non-infectious diseases I am not totally sure that is comparing apples to apples. I don't think you are suggesting that quarantine would be effective for cardiovascular disease so I am not sure why you bring that up. But even for non-infectious diseases we have treatments and strategies to mitigate damage.

If your argument is that we are overreacting to COVID, fair enough. I don't know how many deaths it would take for this to be the correct level of reaction but I can at least see where you are coming from with that argument. If your argument is that we shouldn't care about 95k COVID deaths because the flu kills 60k annually (often less than that) then I can't see where you are coming from and I totally do not get your point. The fact that there are other types of deaths doesn't make COVID less deadly.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

I think I did answer your question, but I will try again. My answer is that we treat COVID differently than other diseases because it is newer than other diseases and deadlier than other diseases. Or is there a different question I didn't answer? Sorry if I missed it.



But we DO take measures to try to limit other deaths. For infectious diseases we have vaccines and effective treatments. For non-infectious diseases I am not totally sure that is comparing apples to apples. I don't think you are suggesting that quarantine would be effective for cardiovascular disease so I am not sure why you bring that up. But even for non-infectious diseases we have treatments and strategies to mitigate damage.

If your argument is that we are overreacting to COVID, fair enough. I don't know how many deaths it would take for this to be the correct level of reaction but I can at least see where you are coming from with that argument. If your argument is that we shouldn't care about 95k COVID deaths because the flu kills 60k annually (often less than that) then I can't see where you are coming from and I totally do not get your point. The fact that there are other types of deaths doesn't make COVID less deadly.

Yes, again, my question always has been the following.

-Why are we shutting down the entire country?
-Why do we not take the same precaution for other infectious disease? I.e. the flu.

my point was that isnt life equally important for all? Why only freak out and panic about covid19? Because numbers are higher? Even with treatments and preventions, other respiratory infectious diseases still kill.

Basically, i am trying to point out that @oldtimer is a Karen.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Data and number discussion could go on for awhile but my point is, @oldtomer is a Karan.

I think that's a bit harsh. People place greater or lesser value on the possible lives lost directly due to COVID compared to economic problems (some of which also will lead to deaths). We can argue about the value of the varying degrees of this, but I haven't seen anyone here get actively hysterical about it.

 

[owlegrad]

Yes, again, my question always has been the following.

-Why are we shutting down the entire country?
-Why do we not take the same precaution for other infectious disease? I.e. the flu.

-We shut down the country to save lives.
-We don't shut down the economy for other infectious diseases i.e., the flu because we have other effective strategies to mitigate them and probably because we are used to them. COVID is newer and scarier. But it's not totally irrational - we are approaching 100k COVID deaths, way more than any flu season any of us have ever lived through.

I hope that answers your questions. 🙂

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

I think that's a bit harsh. People place greater or lesser value on the possible lives lost directly due to COVID compared to economic problems (some of which also will lead to deaths). We can argue about the value of the varying degrees of this, but I haven't seen anyone here get actively hysterical about it.

He has been calling pretty much everyone who disagrees with him *****s and idiots. I dont think calling him a Karen isnt all that bad.

 

[VictorOfHungerGames]

-We shut down the country to save lives.
-We don't shut down the economy for other infectious diseases i.e., the flu because we have other effective strategies to mitigate them and probably because we are used to them. COVID is newer and scarier. But it's not totally irrational - we are approaching 100k COVID deaths, way more than any flu season any of us have ever lived through.

I hope that answers your questions. 🙂

Yeah... i dont know man... you sure that number?