Forum Members Pharmacy Job Market and Financials Subforum - Feedback Needed!

[BC_89]

A lot of comments and suggestions over the past few weeks have reached our attention concerning the mega-thread merge of the Pharmacy Job Market. Due to multiple subtopics integrated in what has been said as a non-clear lay-out thread, myself and @Saisri_PharmStdnt (with discussion with admins and other mods), have decided to set up a voting poll allowing your feedback as we try to accomadate both our student(s) and pharmacist(s) audience.

Albeit some prefer the current lay-out, your input will help expedite what’s best for the forum. Others have suggested including the “Job Market” and “Financials” to be in a subforum format.

To clarify, Financials will include topics such as student loans, wages in hospital vs retail, investments, etc. The Job Market topic needs no introduction, but merely a subforum to focus new threads in a presentable-layout format leaving further separate discussions in our current forums.

Edit: The proposal is to add only one subforum to contain Job Market, or consist of both Job Market and Financials consolidated within itself (not two sub forums for each topic). Hope this clears any confusion.

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[PharmDBro2017]

Two separate subforums (one for finances, and one for job market) would be fantastic.

To clarify, would this mean that every thread about the job market is no longer closed and "moved" (but never reposted) in the mega job market thread? It would be nice to just have a subforum that could accumulate the discussions on that topic.... rather than just closing them down.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

You could just let us post whatever the hell we want and not overmoderate.

 

[Balls on the Line]

You could just let us post whatever the hell we want and not overmoderate.

Hear! Hear! The motion is passed.

 

[Saisri_PharmStdnt]

To clarify, would this mean that every thread about the job market is no longer closed and "moved" (but never reposted) in the mega job market thread? It would be nice to just have a subforum that could accumulate the discussions on that topic.... rather than just closing them down.

That is the intent, yes.

To clarify, what we're proposing isn't meant to be viewed as over-moderating, and if anything, is meant to prevent the perception that over-moderating is what is currently happening. If the subforum that was requested by a couple users (whether for just Job Market or to include Financial discussions) is created, we're hoping that it would be viewed as a central location for users to be able to find those topics more easily and join the discussion or start their own.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

That is the intent, yes.

To clarify, what we're proposing isn't meant to be viewed as over-moderating, and if anything, is meant to prevent the perception that over-moderating is what is currently happening. If the subforum that was requested by a couple users (whether for just Job Market or to include Financial discussions) is created, we're hoping that it would be viewed as a central location for users to be able to find those topics more easily and join the discussion or start their own.

Sounds good.

SDN definitely has an over-modding type feel lately; every thread on the job market gets closed/deleted immediately. Just wanted to make sure that this same thing would not occur in the new subforums (or why bother making them if that is the case).

 

[artist2022]

Just wanted to make sure that this same thing would not occur in the new subforums (or why bother making them if that is the case).

To clarify, the current proposal is to add a single new subforum to either contain solely Job Market threads, or both Job Market AND Financial threads in the same single subforum. If the subforum is made for only the Job Market, then financial-related threads would remain in the main Pharmacy forum. If the subforum is made for both types of threads, it'll contain both.

Hopefully this makes things crystal clear for everyone so that votes can be placed appropriately!

 

[Saisri_PharmStdnt]

Sounds good.

SDN definitely has an over-modding type feel lately; every thread on the job market gets closed/deleted immediately. Just wanted to make sure that this same thing would not occur in the new subforums (or why bother making them if that is the case).

I understand it can feel that way sometimes, but it truly wasn't meant to be a bad thing - I can assure you that. If the subforum is voted for, then this would eliminate the need to close many of the threads because they would already be located in their new home.

 

[BC_89]

Sounds good.

SDN definitely has an over-modding type feel lately; every thread on the job market gets closed/deleted immediately.

Part of that feeling of over-moderating (and it’s been brought up) has happened due to different mods jumping in and out of the Pharmacy forum until permanent forum mods could be found and delegated.

We recently have resolved this and hope to move forward with better organization and less confusion with the constant shutting down and mis-merging of threads.

 

[owlegrad]

You could just let us post whatever the hell we want and not overmoderate.

Oh come now, you have been around long enough to know that there is no pleasing everyone. When we leave people alone all I see are complaints about how "every thread is about the job market" and "too many trolls". As soon as we start merging or banning it is "the mods are dictators!" and "you can't even tell the truth without being banned!".

Although personally I do prefer the under moderating approach, mostly because it is less work for me. But we are trying to live up to our mission of "helping students become doctors" and right now the effort is on improving the forum experience.

Personally I am not a fan of subforums (I think the forums are more lively the more active threads they have going and subforums direct traffic away from the primary forum) but I am certainly willing to give it a try since the members have spoken and say they want it.

What I can't really wrap my head around is why people WANT many multiple threads about the job market. What is there to say in 500 threads that can't be said in one? The job market sucks right now and is getting worse. How many flavors of that theme do we need?

 

[puahate]

stop overmodding

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

Oh come now, you have been around long enough to know that there is no pleasing everyone. When we leave people alone all I see are complaints about how "every thread is about the job market" and "too many trolls". As soon as we start merging or banning it is "the mods are dictators!" and "you can't even tell the truth without being banned!".

Although personally I do prefer the under moderating approach, mostly because it is less work for me. But we are trying to live up to our mission of "helping students become doctors" and right now the effort is on improving the forum experience.

Personally I am not a fan of subforums (I think the forums are more lively the more active threads they have going and subforums direct traffic away from the primary forum) but I am certainly willing to give it a try since the members have spoken and say they want it.

What I can't really wrap my head around is why people WANT many multiple threads about the job market. What is there to say in 500 threads that can't be said in one? The job market sucks right now and is getting worse. How many flavors of that theme do we need?

I think there were plenty of discussions that varied enough to justify having separate threads. Polls about recent wages really don't seem to belong in the same thread as questions about how pharmacists feel their job prospects are post residency.

Like someone else said, pretty much any discussion can come back to the job market but I don't see how that should justify closing the thread.

My personal take is that there shouldn't be either a subforum or thread dedicated to the job market. To me the whole point of this forum is to have whatever threads you want; if you don't want to read about another job market discussion, don't open that thread. Granted I'm pretty new around here so I haven't heard much about having too many job market threads.

 

[mentos]

Albeit some prefer the current lay-out

If by "some" you mean the 1 person who voted for the current layout, I'm guessing it's the mod who decided to merge everything into the dumb mega thread?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Add an option for "let us post whatever we want."

It will win.

 

[owlegrad]

If by "some" you mean the 1 person who voted for the current layout, I'm guessing it's the mod who decided to merge everything into the dumb mega thread?

I actually am not that person but I am glad you thought of me! Lol

 

[Timbo]

Personally I liked it the way it was: no subforums, no megathread. The job market is the current hot topic of discussion and I think the pharmacy forum would be pretty dead without it. Furthermore I don't believe people's non-job market related posts are getting buried and ignored because of job market discussion.

 

[Rouelle]

We (the members, not the mods) seem to swing from one extreme to another. Five or six years ago it seemed like every thread got attacked by the “Use the Search Button” police. Any time a topic was repeated even slightly the police would swoop in. Now, there can be ten new saturation threads a week all repeating the same thing and nobody bats an eye. I’m in favor of grouping them together just to unclutter the place. My $0.02

 

[puahate]

Please redo this pole and add an option for "change nothing"

 

[ornithoptor]

We are all busy individuals who wanted to better the profession and help pharmacists or students get informed.

When my thread is merged or changed, it frustrates me to see my thoughts or voices minimized or categorized. It gives me negative incentive to do more for this forum. I feel I have plenty of unique information to share being a director at huge health system. I disagree with the recent changes.

That being said. I respect moderator positions, and will not speak ill of them. It is difficult being moderators trying to provide reasoning and logic amid chaos. They meant well, merging and closing thread as one moderator has said. However, perception is everything. It feels like top managers made unilateral decision that has impacts to all employees without any input or transitional period. The perception is that Changes were made without notice and heavy-handed.

Suggestions:
Perhaps a head up before closing? Or wait a bit longer or monitor view counts. Let each thread run, only close or merge after no view or comments increase after a few days.

One mega job thread : Wage vs hours, hospital vs retail, east coast vs west coast...... everything will become “job” related somehow. No one will be able to comment or respond properly.

I appreciate self awareness of the moderators and willingness to entertain the possibilities of change. I still view the forum, but I have not posted anything since my thread was closed. This will be my last feedback if no changes occur.

Peace.

 

[owlegrad]

Alright, I have added a "Merge threads on a case by case basis" option. I admit to being and witnessing some heavy-handedness when it comes to merging or closing threads. I can see the benefit of deciding on a case by case basis if a thread needs to be sent to the mega thread vs being allowed to run it's own course. To be honest I hadn't really appreciated how strongly people felt about this. I suspect that a big part of it is that pharmacy has been under moderated for so long that we have forgotten what it is like to try to have a little law and order about the place.

With that said, let's keep in mind SDN's mission is "Helping students become doctors". If you don't like that mission SDN probably isn't your forum. So I can't get behind a policy of "Screw the new comers, they are ruining the profession! Let's keep drilling every thread into the job market graveyard". Warning them of the job market is valid but doesn't and shouldn't need to be the topic of so many threads. So if we don't want a subforum, and we don't want ONE mega-thread, I purpose we try simply scaling back on the merging and closing but with the understanding that "the mods" are going to promote an organized forum experience where if multiple new threads are being opened about the job market they will get merged into the mega thread. (I also like this plan because it is less work than a new subfourm)

How do we feel about threads that are about other topics being derailed into job market discussions? Admittedly that is harder to pin down but I don't think we should have users who only contribution to every thread is "do something else, pharmacy sucks". Do y'all think we should leave that be or try to crack down on it?

 

[puahate]

You need to redo the poll make a new thread.

 

[owlegrad]

You need to redo the poll make a new thread.

Why? People change change their votes if they want to. I suspect that the people who didn't like the options didn't vote anyway.

 

[mentos]

Pharmacy is the most micromanaged profession I know of, you can't do anything without big brother watching over your shoulder and scrutinizing every little thing you do or don't do. They always try to make "improvements" to things that have been done the same way for years, but end up making them far worse. The mega thread and all of these proposals in this thread are a perfect example.

It doesn't surprise me that a pharmacy forum treats its members the same way. The forum used to let people post whatever they wanted for years and now the mods are micromanaging it like a corporate DM is trying to micromanage metrics. This is like CVS IT and all of their worthless RxConnect updates that cause nothing but problems. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

Pharmacy is the most micromanaged profession I know of, you can't do anything without big brother watching over your shoulder and scrutinizing every little thing you do or don't do. They always try to make "improvements" to things that have been done the same way for years, but end up making them far worse. The mega thread and all of these proposals in this thread are a perfect example.

It doesn't surprise me that a pharmacy forum treats its members the same way. The forum used to let people post whatever they wanted for years and now the mods are micromanaging it like a corporate DM is trying to micromanage metrics. This is like CVS IT and all of their worthless RxConnect updates that cause nothing but problems. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

It doesn’t surprise me either because pharmacists are supposed to be “detail-oriented”, right?

 

[PharmDBro2017]

Pharmacy is the most micromanaged profession I know of, you can't do anything without big brother watching over your shoulder and scrutinizing every little thing you do or don't do. They always try to make "improvements" to things that have been done the same way for years, but end up making them far worse. The mega thread and all of these proposals in this thread are a perfect example.

It doesn't surprise me that a pharmacy forum treats its members the same way. The forum used to let people post whatever they wanted for years and now the mods are micromanaging it like a corporate DM is trying to micromanage metrics. This is like CVS IT and all of their worthless RxConnect updates that cause nothing but problems. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Mentos is right. Best option here is "do nothing and let people post wth they want" without moving, merging, deleting, etc. Are people that bothered by the amount of financial topics or job market threads? Don't open them then.

If we can't have that, then sure create two sub forums for it then.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Still no option for "do nothing"

 

[Modest_anteater]

Still no option for "do nothing"

I disagree I found the mods to be extremely helpful I found the moderators to be extremely Fair they only come in to distribute Justice when it's completely necessary a try to steer the conversation away from hate and away from this order and away from off topic discussions.

I feel like they are very helpful they are very friendly and this is a sentiment coming from someone who has been punished by mods multiple times. I'm talking about serious punishments guys such as multiple-day suspensions suspensions warnings so I don't think I'm biased here and saying that the moderators we have here are some of the best moderators that can be found on the internet.

These are good moderators these are good men and women that are serving the student doctor Network and I think instead of criticizing them maybe can congratulate them on their service not only to us but to the community and to the pharmacy community at Large

 

[deleted556323]

I don't even see the poll. But I think subforum or no changes and let ppl post what they want.

 

[Modest_anteater]

I don't even see the poll. But I think subforum or no changes and let ppl post what they want.

its still there i just voted. it's at the top of the page

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

I don't even see the poll. But I think subforum or no changes and let ppl post what they want.

I think you're using the Tapatalk app, yeah? I can't see it on here either, just when I use SDN on an actual browser.

 

[wucool33]

Just let us post whatever we want... I only view SDN on my phone and I don’t want to make my life unnecessarily harder by opening different sub forums.

 

[King2440]

Do nothing.

These pre pharm folks need to see how it really is and we don’t need to censor anything.

 

[puahate]

Just know that this poll does not reflect the true wants of the people. Just like pharm schools and pharmacies do not reflect the wants of pharmacist.

 

[wagrxm2000]

This thread is ridiculous. A subforum is exactly what this place needs. No one wants to see the same threads started over and over again with the same complaining. No one also wants their thread merged. Both groups get what they want.

 

[Rouelle]

Just know that this poll does not reflect the true wants of the people. Just like pharm schools and pharmacies do not reflect the wants of pharmacist.

With all due respect to someone who I’m not particularly familiar with:

Your post history identifies you as pre-med, yet you’ve posted quite a bit on this particular pharmacy thread. I’m curious why you care what’s going on over here. Again, not trying to discourage your presence, just wondering.

 

[puahate]

With all due respect to someone who I’m not particularly familiar with:

Your post history identifies you as pre-med, yet you’ve posted quite a bit on this particular pharmacy thread. I’m curious why you care what’s going on over here. Again, not trying to discourage your presence, just wondering.

I admired this profession for a while. Back in high school i had three careers in mind, dentistry, medicine and pharamacy. All of them in my eyes and others were equally viable and fulfilling. I eventually cut it down to dentistry and medicine because i valued direct patient care more but was still intrested in things like pharmacology and pharmacokinetics.

Around late high school years i started reading about how pharm schools were growing like weeds and the oversupply of grads. I noticed some schools lowering PCAT requirements. Eventually i noticed a shift in the kind of people entering pharm school and it was kinda frightening. A lot of people i saw recently going into pharm school were not the brightest at all and did not even care about pharmacology related topics, they just wanted easy money and a doctor degree.

I had friends that were prepharm that changed to premed because "they wanted something better for themselves". It's sad but these schools and pharmacies ruined such a cool field. It's disgusting how much greed and ruin something.

 

[BC_89]

Do nothing.

These pre pharm folks need to see how it really is and we don’t need to censor anything.

I wont quote everyone, but I have been reading all of the comments. I appreciate the feedback and opinions.

A majority of you are licensed professionals. This is not about any of you, it is about the students with the goal in mind of being licensed (it is a privilege that SDN "changed" its mission to include professional healthcare individuals to have their own forum to discuss other topics of pharmacy). I agree, tough skin needs to be applied to pre-pharms when it comes to the market.

We need to balance the other forums to be dedicated on helping others with their questions while not drowning out all other topics and still not answering simple questions.

Your options are listed. We cannot please everyone, but this poll is from your fellow users in hopes of targeting our student audience and pharmacist forums.

Edit** readers digest version

 

[mentos]

I cannot quote everyone thoroughly, but I have been reading all of the comments. I appreciate the feedback and opinions related to the thought of "censoring" the "truth" or stopping people from posting "whatever-they-want" mentality, but now I wish to relay facts.

A majority of you are licensed professionals that entered the field at different and prominent stages of pharmacy. This is not about any of you, it is about the students with the goal in mind of being licensed (it is a privilege that SDN "changed" its mission to include professional healthcare individuals to have their own forum to discuss other topics of pharmacy that I absolutely love participating and reading about. No doubt with all of your experiences listed for others to read, we as future healthcare professionals will try and learn at what life has thrown to each and every one of you). I agree, tough skin needs to be applied when picking this field with the ongoing saturation of the profession and potential future disasters.

Not one of your moderators or administrators wish to hide the current state of the job market, what we want is for people who wish to be educated specifically about the current market to have easy access in a subforum dedicated to all of your experiences in the current threshold of the career. That being said, we need to balance the other forums to be dedicated on helping with basic questions of applying and working in this field (saturated or not, SDN is to provide the best answer for FREE on a site with the help of our current licensed professionals).

Although SDN is not geared specifically for a majority of you, without your help and experience, this site would have lost its purpose without all of your current knowledge. It was the help of a few of you 5-10 years ago (staff, faculty, residents, etc) that guided me to best prepare for my financial preparations while entering this field. I want to pass that forward to others even if it means they get a reality check about the job market that all of them need to know about in an organized format. That being said, this poll will not include doing "nothing." Your options are listed and if you still do not like how its going, then either pick your poison or let it be. We cannot please everyone, but these voting options are from your fellow users (a majority I might add) that have referenced the changes of what has happened to our student audience ( who we are trying to make our top priority as SDN members).

TLDR:
-Title of the thread says "feedback needed!"
-Majority of feedback is to do nothing
-Mod responds, "we will not offer the option that the majority of you want. If you don't like it leave"

 

[owlegrad]

TLDR:
-Title of the thread says "feedback needed!"
-Majority of feedback is to do nothing
-Mod responds, "we will not offer the option that the majority of you want. If you don't like it leave"

Is the majority of the feedback to do nothing? Because I only see three members advocating for that option (although y'all do it vocally, which I respect).

 

[mentos]

Is the majority of the feedback to do nothing? Because I only see three members advocating for that option (although y'all do it vocally, which I respect).

How will we know if it's not on the poll?

There's no job market mega thread in medical or dental forums.

 

[BMBiology]

Not a good idea. Just let people post. If it is not an interesting topic, then it will die out.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I disagree I found the mods to be extremely helpful I found the moderators to be extremely Fair they only come in to distribute Justice when it's completely necessary a try to steer the conversation away from hate and away from this order and away from off topic discussions.

I feel like they are very helpful they are very friendly and this is a sentiment coming from someone who has been punished by mods multiple times. I'm talking about serious punishments guys such as multiple-day suspensions suspensions warnings so I don't think I'm biased here and saying that the moderators we have here are some of the best moderators that can be found on the internet.

These are good moderators these are good men and women that are serving the student doctor Network and I think instead of criticizing them maybe can congratulate them on their service not only to us but to the community and to the pharmacy community at Large

You are a frustratingly effective and skilled troll. I mean that. I tip my hat to you.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I cannot quote everyone thoroughly, but I have been reading all of the comments. I appreciate the feedback and opinions related to the thought of "censoring" the "truth" or stopping people from posting "whatever-they-want" mentality, but now I wish to relay facts.

A majority of you are licensed professionals that entered the field at different and prominent stages of pharmacy. This is not about any of you, it is about the students with the goal in mind of being licensed (it is a privilege that SDN "changed" its mission to include professional healthcare individuals to have their own forum to discuss other topics of pharmacy that I absolutely love participating and reading about. No doubt with all of your experiences listed for others to read, we as future healthcare professionals will try and learn at what life has thrown to each and every one of you). I agree, tough skin needs to be applied when picking this field with the ongoing saturation of the profession and potential future disasters.

Not one of your moderators or administrators wish to hide the current state of the job market, what we want is for people who wish to be educated specifically about the current market to have easy access in a subforum dedicated to all of your experiences in the current threshold of the career. That being said, we need to balance the other forums to be dedicated on helping with basic questions of applying and working in this field (saturated or not, SDN is to provide the best answer for FREE on a site with the help of our current licensed professionals).

Although SDN is not geared specifically for a majority of you, without your help and experience, this site would have lost its purpose without all of your current knowledge. It was the help of a few of you 5-10 years ago (staff, faculty, residents, etc) that guided me to best prepare for my financial preparations while entering this field. I want to pass that forward to others even if it means they get a reality check about the job market that all of them need to know about in an organized format. That being said, this poll will not include doing "nothing." Your options are listed and if you still do not like how its going, then either pick your poison or let it be. We cannot please everyone, but these voting options are from your fellow users (a majority I might add) that have referenced the changes of what has happened to our student audience ( who we are trying to make our top priority as SDN members).

Tldr

 

[GrandTheftAutumn]

I'd prefer the way it used to be- let there be however many job market related threads there need to be on the general forum.
I feel like each job market thread has its story and don't belong in a single thread.
And like someone mentioned, job market threads aren't necessarily limited to the discussion of job market.
If someone posts a same old uninteresting "no job" thread, people won't comment and just get buried to the bottom, no?
Laissez-faire.

Is the majority of the feedback to do nothing? Because I only see three members advocating for that option (although y'all do it vocally, which I respect).

Why not add an option for "back to what it used to be" (pre-mega thread) and see if more than three members vote for this?

 

[BC_89]

Tldr

Yea, I wrote so much on that space I didn’t even wanna read it a second time lol. I cleared it up a bit

 

[BC_89]

TLDR:
-Title of the thread says "feedback needed!"
-Majority of feedback is to do nothing
-Mod responds, "we will not offer the option that the majority of you want. If you don't like it leave"

I understand reverting to how things used to be. Trust us when I say that’d make our monitoring much easier! Yet it doesn’t solve the arising issue of students being pushed out the door when their question is:

“How many schools did you apply too as a student and what did you like about your program?”

and the answer given is

“Who cares pre-pharm! Why are you so naive and desperate applying for pharmacy when you’ll end up living in a van down by the river?!”

With that in mind.....If we stop on closed threads and only merged specific comments (such as my example only more cosure but just as redundant) into a monitored mega-thread on a case by case basis, would that suffice? This would allow more constructive feedback of the market without mods constantly shutting down or merging threads (option #4 on the poll).

 

[PharmDBro2017]

Good thing we have that medical toxicology subforum here that hasn't had a single post or thread in 6+months.


Just make the subforums for finances and job market and move on already. Mega thread takes away from all conducive discussion... it sucks.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Still no option for "do nothing."

 

[Modest_anteater]

Still no option for "do nothing."

dude i don't think you can add options after the poll is made. you might have to make a whole new thread.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

dude i don't think you can add options after the poll is made. you might have to make a whole new thread.

...which will get merged into this thread as a megathread.