Pharmacy Job Market

Discussion in 'Pharmacy' started by owlegrad, Dec 16, 2018.

  1. sosoo

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    in my district of 12 stores, 7 pharmacists were fired or forced to resign.

    please stay on topic. i'm curious to know how many cvs pharmacists became an unemployment statistic in 2018.
     
  2. Pharmacy is a Scam

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    Yeah.. in addition I don’t like the idea of having a single thread to talk about the job market. If the purpose of this forum is to freely disseminate information about the profession, then a pre-pharm and/or non-pharmacist should be able to peruse the forum and say “Well gee, it seems like almost every thread here is about how terrible the job market is. Maybe I should do more research and/or not pursue this profession” as opposed to “well the job market seems pretty good, since there’s only one thread about it”.

    From an organizational standpoint too I think it’s easier to search for specific job market-related discussions in separate threads using keywords than searching through a megathread to look for something specific.
     
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  3. pencilandpen

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    the turn over rate at CVS is high, that is well known. but why where they forced to resign or fired? under performance, being paid too much??
     
  4. ancienbon

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    I know one who was fired and 1 who was forced to retire
     
  5. BC_89

    Moderator Lifetime Donor Verified Expert Verified Account 2+ Year Member

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    I see your point. This specific segment was created due to the high volume of users wishing to focus this topic in one area.

    Would everyone prefer the “Job Market” to act as a sub forum and post new threads within said forum?

     
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  6. Pharmacy is a Scam

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    That would be a good idea as well.
     
  7. Litha

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    Is this retail only? At my LTC-owned-by-CVS one RPh quit and one was let go due to decreased workload and lost facility contracts.
     
  8. OP
    OP
    owlegrad

    owlegrad Uncontrollable Sarcasm Machine
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    He merged it because I asked him to. We don’t need a new thread every time someone thinks they have an original thought about the job market. Those go here.


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
     
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  9. Ximilara

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    Good question, I am curious about Walgreens too...


    Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
     
  10. steveysmith54

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    Less than new grads
     
  11. josh6718

    josh6718 Pharmacist
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    What were the circumstances with the one who got fired?
     
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  12. ancienbon

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    Was filling and verifying his own controlled
     
  13. Momus

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    Not cvs. 1 too slow, 2 too many mistakes, 1 background check was judged "bad" after 8 yrs with the company, 1 diverting oxy, 1 gy quit rage leaving the pharmacy wide open, 1 not following safety protocol, 1 cheating on time punches, 1 tardy and unreliable.
     
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  14. Doktor_dud3

    Doktor_dud3 Pre-Med
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    Merging with the Job Market thread.
     
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  15. Dreamer716

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    Ugh wow. Can you elaborate not following safety protocol?
     
  16. Deja

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    you don't need it but the people do! what are you? a dictator?
     
  17. Modest_anteater

    Modest_anteater Is today your last day on Earth?

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    I think this will be the new normal. 30 USD an hour is still 60,000 a year well above the average for a individual living in the US. I would take that job in a heart beat.
     
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  18. gopoopants

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    I think people may stop enrolling in pharmacy school if that becomes the new normal. You have to factor in student loans especially with cost of attendance always increasing every year. People will probably deem it no worth it for that pay and go a technician route
     
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  19. PharmDBro2017

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    While some of the job market threads are beating a dead horse, that one was actually original and a bit refreshing on the topic. Plus you didn't copy/paste any of it in here, you just locked/deleted the thread and now it is gone?

    It is never a bad thing to have 3-5-10 threads talking about how terrible the job market is on the first page or two in our forum.
     
    #119 PharmDBro2017, Jan 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  20. projektreverb

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    ^Maybe we should created a sub forum: Pharmacy job market: the bad and the ugly
     
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  21. Modest_anteater

    Modest_anteater Is today your last day on Earth?

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    Oh I absoluetly agree. There are probably seasoned pharm techs in California making over 60k a year (SF). And I think that in 2025 we will start to see the first pharm schools begin to shut down. Maybe around 15% will go bankrupt and it will truly be a tough time for pharmDs. Then the market will begin to recover.
     
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  22. Sine Cura

    Sine Cura 10 seconds or less
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    Average base salary for pharmacists was ~46k (for men) in 1990. This is equivalent to 88k in 2018 dollars.

    Pharmacists' compensation and work patterns, 1990-91. - PubMed - NCBI

    If current trends continue (chains relying on a combination of inflation + minimal raises and dropping starting wages + getting rid of high earners), still have quite some time to go to hit 40/hr en masse. Inflation is gonna do work though
     
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    #122 Sine Cura, Jan 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
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  23. Pharmacy is a Scam

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    The catch being that IF pharmacy schools finally put caps on class sizes in 2025 based on market demand, you’d still have to absorb the current unemployed/underemployed pharmacist plus the oversupply of pharmacists from 2019-2028 into the job market (because the class size cap won’t be felt until 3-4 years after the policy is put in place). That means that at minimum there will be at least 9 more years of extra pharmacists being cranked out even if schools decided to do something about it. Of course, for the market to truly equilibrate then pharmacy schools have to accept LESS students than market demand, not accept the SAME amount of students as the market demand.

    I’m not an economist, but basic math should dictate why. Let’s say your goal in a class is to finish with a 90% as the final grade. Your first five test scores are as follows:

    100%
    100%
    100%
    100%
    100%

    How then do you average a 90%? If you start scoring 90% on all your remaining tests, your average will begin to approach 90% but it will always be greater than 90%. If you started scoring below the average, let’s say 88%, then you would need to score 88% 25 TIMES in order for the average to drop to 90%.

    This simple analogy means that if there is a 10% oversupply of pharmacists being trained each year, then it’s going to take 25 years of “demand exceeding supply by 2%” for the market to stabilize. In the meantime, for those unemployed pharmacists, they’ve just got to suck it up and doing something else for the next 25 years while they wait for jobs to become realistically attainable.

    Of course, there have been some calculations done on this forum that projects a 50% oversupply of fresh new grads who are graduating each year so my numbers are very conservative...
     
  24. samven582

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    4 pharmacist quit at the hospital I work at. However, we have a hiring freeze at the moment.
     
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  25. Modest_anteater

    Modest_anteater Is today your last day on Earth?

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    What is the starting pay for staff pharmacists at your hospital? and is it true they are union?
     
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  26. samven582

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    Yes, it's union. Starting pay with no experience is $54. As for scheduling, it will be flex but mostly midnights (5 on 2 off). No NYC hospital that comes to my mind does 7/7 off or 4/3 schedule.
     
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  27. Modest_anteater

    Modest_anteater Is today your last day on Earth?

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    thanks
     
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  28. awval999

    awval999 New Member
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    $54 in NYC is like $45 in Real America (ex-California).
     
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  29. Seriously Serious

    Seriously Serious SDN Gold Donor
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    Schools are having issues staffing a full cohort each year. It's not a sustainable business. Sure it will be awhile before the declining admissions catch up with the programs, but it will happen eventually. The only way this holds is if demand goes up, which it won't, it will remain the same or decrease as the number of programs continues to increase. Pharmacy will experience a septic shock phenomenon.
     
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  30. Sine Cura

    Sine Cura 10 seconds or less
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    Look at what pharmacists make in the UK, Hong Kong and Australia. We may see pharmacist compensation from 2000-2020 be considered a historical anomaly once inflation and stagnant wages take their toll.
     
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  31. Momus

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    Benefit 5 on 2 off is -10 yrs of your life. Not a bad perk.
     
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  32. Secret_Informant

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    As opposed to the atrial fibrillation pharmacy already experienced from 2014 and forward?

    To continue the "septic shock" metaphor, I am using the Surviving Sepsis Campaign Pocket Guide (2012) as a humorous reference for the following quote:

    "I am surprised that crystalloid fluids (grant money), vasopressors (appropriate preceptors), inotropic therapy (rotation sites for training said students), and corticosteroids (depression and mental health support) were not considered in treating this "septic shock" phenomenon. I am even more surprised that students continue to neglect the warning signs we post here in favor of an "all-positivity, no-negativity" mentality to drive their thinking (reference to USFCOP)."

    Extending the metaphor even further: The sustainability of any organization (school or not) rests in the ability to achieve buy-in from leadership (stakeholders and such), like the Board of Education members for instance and those funding grants. The funny (and sad) thing is that the students are buying into such garbage. Because if the students buy into such an approach, despite all reason and logic, the students will defend the school and its ideals no matter how buy-in was achieved. Once that buy-in is achieved it will be very difficult to fight such a system. The students may not know their very system is in septic shock, because septic shock, in general, has early signs. Students have bought into this mentality so much that they do not notice the symptoms and are unable to effectively treat it.

    The very sad part: this buy-in is working.

    The Surviving Septic Shock (ahem, Pharmacy) Campaign, 2019 and forward. Metaphorically speaking, what guidelines do we have on correcting this "septic shock" phenomenon for the pharmacy profession?

    I wonder...
     
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    #132 Secret_Informant, Jan 15, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
  33. PharmDBro2017

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    Word, that's crap.
     
  34. Sine Cura

    Sine Cura 10 seconds or less
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  35. Actinomycin

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    We have kept talking on the forum about saturation for 7-8 years but the last year seems to have reaslly been brutal where we have started seeing the effects in the market very clearly

    We have a few different threads about decrease in starting pay/hours. Can you please list yours below as follows so we can get a better sense of market for new grads if you graduated in 2017, 2018 or expect to graduate in 2019-

    Offer date - (eg.e. Mar 18)
    Company - (eg.e. cvs, walgreens, kroger)
    Area - (e.g.. city name or broad area such as large city in midwest)
    Hours guaranteed - (eg.e. 32)
    Starting salary - (eg.e. 54/hour)
     
  36. nafcillin

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    can anyone help but wonder what the future holds for the current pharnacy students? Tons of debt and no jobs. I would be so depressed under the weight of student loans. I wish I could tell them to wake the **** up and get out
     
  37. Pharmacy is a Scam

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    Negative recruiting for the profession really should start at the pre-pharm level. I propose that the folks who go out to pre-pharmacy clubs to give talks about the profession should pull a 180 and instead start presenting about not becoming a pharmacist. Want to give a presentation on the future of pharmacy? Sure! Let’s review the data on saturation!
     
    #137 Pharmacy is a Scam, Jan 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
  38. msweph

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    Honestly, I'm not planning on leaving my job unless we move ... It's a good gig and pays well, plus, at least as of now, they aren't going to lower the pay scale so I'm semi- protected from saturation

    Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
     
  39. Gombrich12

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    I suspect during the next downturn there will be a fair amount of layoffs of pharmacists based on annual review scores. They cannot target workers by age, but if 75% of the workforce is on a higher wage scale than they would like then the layoff will do the job of getting wages more in line with what the company wants.
     
  40. MrBonita

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    Jeff Bezos will save us all. When Amazon pharmacy opens up and is completely automated and mailed we can sit back and earn checks.
     
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  41. Havequestion

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    .
     
    #141 Havequestion, Jan 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
  42. monkieturtle

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    So you didn’t go to the interview for pharmacy school and decided to pursue a different field?
     
  43. Havequestion

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    I didn’t. But I know that one of the schools I applied to accepts people with PCAT in ~30 range percentile. The interview is just there as a part of the procedure. Yes, it was to weed out bad candidates, but that’s few years a go. Now, if you were invited for an interview, 90% you will be accepted.

    You can check by Google any pharmacy school and put statistics at the end then analyze the stats yourself.

    By the way, I have 3.7 prereq GPA. I came in unprepared for one section and got **** score on that section but still end up with ~90 percentile PCAT.
     
  44. Havequestion

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    Your stats and circumstances might be different. I just want to share what I found. I am not trying to talk anyone out of pharmacy.
    I just, personally, don’t want to spend hundred thousands of dollar and hard work for a chance to work especially with a doctor degree.
    Keep going if you feel pharmacy is what fulfill your true inner self.
     
  45. WorthlessOxygen

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    Offer date - received January '19, I'm class of 2019
    Company - Rite Aid
    Area - smallish city in the Northeast
    Hours guaranteed - 30 (really 60 biweekly)
    Starting salary - $51/hr

    Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
     
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  46. stoichiometrist

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    1) They are fearful that they will have "wasted" a few years of prerequisites. They do not want to look at other professions because it takes additional mental energy and/or they have developed an emotional attachment to pharmacy. (sorry, the law of economics do not care about emotions)

    2) They will deny that saturation is really that big of a deal or claim that it is an outright myth. Might cite "retiring pharmacists," "provider status," that "industry is growing," or that they might claim that we're just trying to discourage them from becoming future competition for jobs.

    3) They will deny that they themselves will be affected by saturation. They promise to make themselves stand out through their own hard work and talent, that they will move anywhere in the country, etc.
     
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  47. stoichiometrist

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    Even if you do manage to land a job, a lot of the floaters I know are getting well under 30 hours of work each week yet graduated recently from expensive private universities. This is not to include that most of the chains cut starting pay by $5-10 an hour. I wonder how they will be able to pay their loans off.

    Many students who I knew to be very smart, hardworking and competitive were not even able to land an interview for residencies and fellowships. These are generally a requirement if you want to get into hospital, industry, or other non-retail areas in general.

    It doesn't matter how great you think you are or how well your circumstances favor you. No one is safe from saturation. You're taking a huge gamble of $200k+ in student loans for a low return.
     
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    #147 stoichiometrist, Jan 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
  48. Mr. Corporate Pharmacist

    Mr. Corporate Pharmacist Zero To Hero In Retail Pharmacy

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    Students who pursue pharmacy for the right reasons won't have trouble getting jobs.

    Jobs go to those with the highest caliber talent.

    People who get into this profession for the pay will become jaded the quickest.

    There are so many other ways to make a buck.



    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using SDN mobile
     
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  49. stoichiometrist

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    The "right reasons" typically being that you're willing to sacrifice your health, license and patient safety for lower pay so that you can make CVS and WBA, possibly soon AMZN shareholders richer. You also need to be willing to pack your bags and move just about anywhere in the country where you are needed.

    Any other reasons and you'll probably be jaded.

    Definitely agree with you there.
     
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  50. bacillus1

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    Well, it's hard to do something for that many years that you don't truly "love" without getting bored or burned out and wanting to try something different, so the "burn" is that nothing different is out there due to saturation, and very difficult to relocate if one wants to. In addition, switching jobs nowadays often results in a pay cut, as the pay for new hires often does not consider experience. However, I have heard that in retail, everyone including senior pharmacists are getting their hours cut in some chains.
     
    #150 bacillus1, Jan 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019

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