Planning a wedding for intern year

[InFactotum]

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My fiancée and I want to get married during October of my intern year (I'll be matching EM). Do I need to wait until after match day to safely out a deposit down on a venue? Or, are most residencies pretty understanding when it comes to this kind of thing? To accommodate our families geography, we need to do the wedding in Hawaii, so I'm concerned about not being able to book something if we wait until after the match.

 

[InFactotum]

I wouldn't put any money down until you've matched and had a chance to communicate with the program.

Honestly I think that's a terrible time to get married. I know that's harsh but it is what it is. I'd recommend either pushing it up to late fourth year or back to late intern year (or early second year).

While I'm sure the program will try to be accommodating, you never know. Some programs have weird schedule quirks - like that vacations run from the 14th to the 27th or some random block of time like that. It also runs the risk of being "that guy" who is walking in on day one asking favors of people when they haven't earned any.

Well, I hope to not match somewhere that sees my wedding as being the guy that asks favors to be honest. Not like I'm asking for a week to go fishing. Anyway, early 4th year won't work, too little time to plan and my fiancée will be spending that time finding a new job if I don't match in my current area.

October is a good time to get married from a wedding perspective, but maybe not from a medicine one. Guess I'll have to tell her we may need to push things back :/

 

[InFactotum]

Like I said, I'm sure any program would try to be accommodating. But intern year is a hard time, and they also have to try and be accommodating of the other dozens of residents. And yes, making a particularly big request so early in the year (and having already put down non-refundable deposits that make it less of a request than a demand) runs the risk of being seen as entitled or demanding.

I get what you're saying... Just not sure my fiancée will enjoy hearing it. Thanks.

 

[atomi]

Unless your program is particularly terrible, they should be able to schedule your vacation during this time if you request it (a wedding is a decent excuse for having a set vacation). Most chiefs try to accommodate vacation requests. However, you will have to live with this uncertainty until July. You need to be 100% prepared to have to cancel your plans as late as August. Now, if you are expecting on going anyway no matter what if you get vacation during this time (or worse not wanting to use your vacation for this) and having a co-intern yanked off an elective block to cover for you when you don't show up while you are in Hawaii, you are completely unreasonable. Unless you are so physically ill that you cannot walk from your car to your parking lot (literally, not exaggerating here), not showing up is the cardinal sin of residency and you will be universally hated for it. When a resident calls in sick and is found out to be anything other than on the verge of death, people talk.

Also, don't be that guy who won't stop talking about it (Hawaii this, wedding that, every chance you get). Yes, most people become one dimensional with no lives during internship, but when you turn into a broken record, it gets annoying.

 

[Law2Doc]

Late in the year when people are capable of covering for each other better is potentially doable, but intern year is pretty tough. It's not the most flexible year of your training. For example, it was a clusterF during my intern year just to reschedule things to allow one intern a day or two off to be there for the birth of his child. And that was with benevolent chiefs that were moving lots of pieces to try and make it work. When you have lean staffing and on paper have to comply with ACGME duty hours, and people need certain rotations, and multiple people have vacation needs, conference presentations, etc., its not always easy to give everyone what they request. As far as weddings, during intern year your role is going to need to be limited to just showing up -- make sure your better half knows this is the year you really won't be able to be involved in any wedding planning decisions. At all. It's all on them. Or hire a planner. I would also rethink Hawaii as you are going to have a tough time getting so many travel days off -- a harder time than the rest of your family. Pick a Venue you can get to the same day.

 

[RangerBob]

Why not get married before intern year starts? Most people have around a month off at the end of fourth year (more if their internship orientation starts late--but you wouldn't know about that until March), which gives plenty of time for a nice honeymoon (and it'd be warm too).

My wife and I planned our wedding in less than three months--my grandparents did it in two weeks. If getting married soon is important then plan a simple wedding. I know way too many people that are engaged for a year or two--I never understood this.

You will never again be as relaxed as you are during your fourth year of medical school. And possibly never as stressed as you are during your intern year. Planning a wedding during 4th year is far less stressful than during internship, unless your spouse does all the work (which will cause a lot of arguments--one of the many reasons to keep a wedding simple in my mind). And if all you have is a five days off plus two golden weekends (which is a best case scenario--odds are you can only get 5-7 days off in a row depending on the rotation that month), that doesn't leave much time to arrive at the wedding venue/Hawaii (1 day), get married (1 day), have a honeymoon (2-6 days, depending on how much time you can take off) and travel back home (1 more day). And then you get to go straight to work the following day.

Seriously, if you and your fiancee can, get married before you start internship.

 

[Mass Effect]

Terrible idea. Getting married during intern year is doable, but doing in October in Hawaii, where you need to make all the arrangements before even matching is terrible. If October is important to you, then I would do it PGY 2 year (you're right that most Hawaii venues will be booked so a 4th year wedding is a no-go, most likely). The point is that you're going into EM. I don't know much about EM curriculum, but isn't intern year full of intense rotations that require long hours, like ICU? I'm sure there will be at least some rotations where you will not be allowed to take any vacation time. Yes, you could end up at a program that sends an email out on Match Day, saying tell us your vacation requests so we can make the schedule and they may be accommodating to you needing a week off in October, but you could also very well end up at a program that says "sorry, we'd like to help, but this is your schedule. You can't have a week in October off. It's just not doable" for whatever reason. As another poster said, if you're ok with canceling plans in July or August, then go ahead and book the venue, but I personally wouldn't, especially not with a destination wedding where people need to take off work and make travel plans only to possibly have you cancel two months prior.

Compromise -- if Hawaii is an absolute must, then do it another time of year (late intern year, maybe?) or October PGY 2 year. There is nothing wrong with a long engagement.

 

[RangerBob]

Right - this is what I meant. A lot of programs have rigid vacation blocking or weird quirks/rules about it.

For my program - all vacations are Monday-Sunday - seven days. And you can't take more than one vacation per rotation. So it's a big pain for weddings since they are conventionally on a Saturday (i.e. you have to come back to work 1 day after your wedding). A couple of people in the past have managed to schedule 2 weeks off, but they did it by taking the last week of one rotation off and the first of another.

Other programs I know have weird rules like you can't be on vacation on the first or the 31st (because they don't want vacations at the same time as the rotation switches). Or like said above that there may be certain months where it's not allowed.

It's just really hard to know what will happen, as said above you would have to be prepared to lose the deposits.

And that doesn't even get into the practical difficulties - it's going to be a really stressful time as an intern and you won't be able to contribute much to the planning efforts.

True. And I would also add that some programs do not allow vacation during certain months (I wasn't allowed to take vacation on my ICU month or any of my 3 ward months). Granted, some programs may avoid scheduling you that month if you are planning to get married (mine would have).

OP--if you aren't able to reschedule your wedding to before intern year (or to 2nd year) at the very least inform your new chief residents as early as possible. Hopefully that way they can schedule you on an elective block (if you get one intern year) or something lighter where it's not such a big deal. But it will still be very, very hard to plan a wedding during intern year unless you have a pretty light year, which is a rarity.

I still really think 4th year is by far the best time to get married in pretty much your entire medical career. (Other than summer between first and second year). I'd highly recommend starting your marriage off on as happy a note as possible, and I think you being able to participate in wedding planning, not being super stressed out (if you're on ICU the last thing you want to think about is the seating arrangements, etc.)

I have a different philosophy than others, but I think the simpler a wedding, the more special it is. I don't understand the need to spend months and months or years to plan a wedding, and dropping $20-50,000 on the venue, catering, inviting 200 people you hardly know, etc. (Though if your folks are paying, I get the need for that--but I still think it's wasteful--I think it'd be better to put that money towards getting the new couple started in life with a leg up such as with a down payment for a home).

We did a really simple chapel wedding (the CA Missions are really great for that), invited just immediate family and closest friends (~25 people, so really small), and had the reception at my parent's house (small vineyard in the backyard). My sister catered. My brother handled music (iPod with speakers). Most of the cost of our wedding was from flying to CA and back, flying the priest to CA and back (we wanted our college priest), renting a car for two and a half weeks, boarding our dog for that same amount of time, and the honeymoon (Yosemite--seriously you can't beat it). It was incredibly special and intimate, and I would have done everything exactly the same. There was hardly any stress--we could've planned it less than a few weeks. Our families got together to literally make the wedding for us, so it was very personal. Yeah the decorations weren't as fancy, there was no limo (just a rental with "Just Married" written on the back) and we didn't have crystal champagne glasses (not sure we even had champagne...), but it was great.

Ultimately everyone should have the wedding that's right for them. If someone wants to spend $50,000 on their wedding and can afford it, who am I to say that's wrong for them? But I just think the simpler and easier a wedding is, the more enjoyable it is. And I think a lot of people overlook that.

Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now.

 

[NPI]

Have you considered eloping? Or having a simple local wedding until you can properly plan a wedding? Putting a deposit down this early sounds risky, as you're not guaranteed that you'll be able to get that time off. I'd hate for you to waste your deposit money if it doesn't work out (getting the time off for the wedding). Sounds risky!

 

[Follow the Cairns]

I get what you're saying... Just not sure my fiancée will enjoy hearing it. Thanks.

As someone married for 14 years to a surgeon (and who starting dating him before he began Med school), I have been on a long journey and made a lot of concessions during my partner's training.

Do you think that your fiancee is prepared to do the same? I am not suggesting he/she is not, but something about your comment above that they will not enjoy hearing they might have to change the timing of your wedding gives me pause.

You know this will be the first of many, many things that end up being compromised on, tabled, shifted etc to accommodate your medical training. Make sure your partner is absolutely on board with that. I also agree with PP's that say that you don't really want to be "that guy" who is asking for any special treatment right out the gate, although your program might be entirely willing to do it, so who knows.

 

[johndoe44]

I think everything written above is ridiculous. Get married when you want to because it is an important part of your life and that should supercede everything else. Who cares what other people think; just do what you feel it best. I think its funny how everyone says you don't want to be "that guy" asking for favors but I think more importantly you don't want to be "that guy" getting a divorce 2 years later.

You have the rest of your life to be miserable as a physician. Take care of the important stuff first.

 

[Perrotfish]

Well, I hope to not match somewhere that sees my wedding as being the guy that asks favors to be honest. Not like I'm asking for a week to go fishing. Anyway, early 4th year won't work, too little time to plan and my fiancée will be spending that time finding a new job if I don't match in my current area.

October is a good time to get married from a wedding perspective, but maybe not from a medicine one. Guess I'll have to tell her we may need to push things back :/

As others have said, programs don't accommodate much during Residency and during Intern year they don't really accommodate you at all. To give you an example my program accommodates exactly 2 1 week blocks off during Intern year, and they're assigned to you, no requests solicited or accepted. Also they're assigned during the only two outpatient blocks on which they will allow you to take leave (the other 11 are considered too essential) and you have to cross cover inpatient wards on pretty much every weekend of the month of your leave, so you cannot change the timing of your vacation within the month it is assigned and you also can't change it to any other month.

 

[Perrotfish]

I think everything written above is ridiculous. Get married when you want to because it is an important part of your life and that should supercede everything else. Who cares what other people think; just do what you feel it best. I think its funny how everyone says you don't want to be "that guy" asking for favors but I think more importantly you don't want to be "that guy" getting a divorce 2 years later.

You have the rest of your life to be miserable as a physician. Take care of the important stuff first.

There's nothing wrong with asking, but they'll probably say no. You don't have the option to 'do what you feel is best', except in the sense that you have the option to not show up to your assigned shift and to get summarily fired.

This I the kind of advice stay at home spouses usually give. 'Just tell them that you need to take care of the important things first'. Your job doesn't care about your important things, and does have the power to completely destroy your future if you don't do EXACTLY what they tell you to do. You have the rest of your life to put your foot down when your bosses are being unreasonable, but for the duration of your training you don't have any options.

 

[johndoe44]

This I the kind of advice stay at home spouses usually give. 'Just tell them that you need to take care of the important things first'. Your job doesn't care about your important things, and does have the power to completely destroy your future if you don't do EXACTLY what they tell you to do. You have the rest of your life to put your foot down when your bosses are being unreasonable, but for the duration of your training you don't have any options.

You are probably not married? Just guessing. If you are, I would keep tabs on my wife if I were you.

 

[Perrotfish]

You are probably not married? Just guessing. If you are, I would keep tabs on my wife if I were you.

There is a reason that the physician divorce rate is so high.

There is also a reason that the only exception to the high divorce rate is physician-physician marriages.

You can't convince a housewife/househusband/normal office drone that your job literally will not let you take a sick day/wedding day/day off for at least one major holiday this year. You also can't get your job to give you any time off for any of that just because your spouse insists. So you're left hoping your spouse doesn't get around to cheating on you before you finish training.

Marry a doctor, they're the only ones who get it. If you married a non-doctor then do your best, don't skimp on flowers, and marry a doctor the next time around.

 

[InFactotum]

Wow, this blew up. So many assumptions! Haha.

I don't think I need to address them all, but I will say my fiancée is the most understanding person I have been with and as stuck by me during my entire medical school career and rarely complained despite the long nights, rare weekends together, and literally moving her life across the globe for me. This is just addressing whoever implied I need be concerned because I mentioned she wouldn't enjoy hearing me say we need to postpone wedding plans. Sorry, but it's NORMAL to be a little disappointed to have to postpone something like this, but she DOES understand. She's not a robot, wow.

And I've had people suggest I shouldn't have an extravagant wedding. not to be the guy that can only talk about my "Hawaii wedding" haha. Oh, and people telling me to do it during my fourth year.

1) My fiancée and I will decide what kind of wedding we want and how much to spend and what factors make it special to US lol... We are paying for it, it's going to be close family and friends, but who cares?
2) I'm not the type to wax lyrical about my wedding lol
3) I explained why the wedding is in Hawaii due to geography. So whoever suggested I do a local wedding didn't read my post.
4) I CANNOT do it during 4th year as I explained earlier. My fiancée has to devote the full time after Match to finding a new job and we need to find a place to live and are getting married in a in demand area.

ANYWAY, after addressing the crowd that likes to assume my fiancée is not the type to understand a career in medicine, and that my wedding plans are the wrong way to get married from either a location or cost standpoint.... I do appreciate the objective advice of the others.

Luckily, I've discussed this with a few venues so far that will allow a deposit to be placed and I can change the dates at a later time so long as I keep their venue. So, I can book now and change it after match day once I speak with the person in charge of scheduling at my new residency.

I am not a demanding person, and I do not expect my future residents to cover my ass because of selfishness. I do hope to be able to use my alotted vacation time for my wedding (who thought I would not want to use vacation time for this? Lol), and if a resident ends up doing my a favor the ill return it to them twofold. I'm very much a team player and always looking out for the group.

Sorry for my rant, just really bugs me that on a forum full of docs and soon to be docs I'd receive so many assuming opinions and suggestions on how to live my life and even opinions on my relationship with my fiancée based on an innocent question of "is it safe to book ahead?".

 

[rokshana]

Wow, this blew up. So many assumptions! Haha.

I don't think I need to address them all, but I will say my fiancée is the most understanding person I have been with and as stuck by me during my entire medical school career and rarely complained despite the long nights, rare weekends together, and literally moving her life across the globe for me. This is just addressing whoever implied I need be concerned because I mentioned she wouldn't enjoy hearing me say we need to postpone wedding plans. Sorry, but it's NORMAL to be a little disappointed to have to postpone something like this, but she DOES understand. She's not a robot, wow.

And I've had people suggest I shouldn't have an extravagant wedding. not to be the guy that can only talk about my "Hawaii wedding" haha. Oh, and people telling me to do it during my fourth year.

1) My fiancée and I will decide what kind of wedding we want and how much to spend and what factors make it special to US lol... We are paying for it, it's going to be close family and friends, but who cares?
2) I'm not the type to wax lyrical about my wedding lol
3) I explained why the wedding is in Hawaii due to geography. So whoever suggested I do a local wedding didn't read my post.
4) I CANNOT do it during 4th year as I explained earlier. My fiancée has to devote the full time after Match to finding a new job and we need to find a place to live and are getting married in a in demand area.

ANYWAY, after addressing the crowd that likes to assume my fiancée is not the type to understand a career in medicine, and that my wedding plans are the wrong way to get married from either a location or cost standpoint.... I do appreciate the objective advice of the others.

Luckily, I've discussed this with a few venues so far that will allow a deposit to be placed and I can change the dates at a later time so long as I keep their venue. So, I can book now and change it after match day once I speak with the person in charge of scheduling at my new residency.

I am not a demanding person, and I do not expect my future residents to cover my ass because of selfishness. I do hope to be able to use my alotted vacation time for my wedding (who thought I would not want to use vacation time for this? Lol), and if a resident ends up doing my a favor the ill return it to them twofold. I'm very much a team player and always looking out for the group.

Sorry for my rant, just really bugs me that on a forum full of docs and soon to be docs I'd receive so many assuming opinions and suggestions on how to live my life and even opinions on my relationship with my fiancée based on an innocent question of "is it safe to book ahead?".

one, you asked the question here, so you have to be prepared to get opinions, judgements, advice, and direction from the posters here…if are surprised, then you haven't been on sdn very much or very long.

two, people make these statements because the HAVE encounter ALL of the situations described above…

 

[InFactotum]

one, you asked the question here, so you have to be prepared to get opinions, judgements, advice, and direction from the posters here…if are surprised, then you haven't been on sdn very much or very long.

two, people make these statements because the HAVE encounter ALL of the situations described above…

Did you look at my join date right under my name? 🙂

I only RARELY post for these reasons, but primarily thought this type of stuff occurred on the premed forums.

I totally get that they've seen this stuff, and if they want to give warning to the general audience, that's fine. But, address it as a general warning, not in direct response to me.

And, giving me advice on how much to spend, location, number of guests to invite, is simply completely irrelevant and inappropriate to the question posed. That's all very personal, and only the couple involved should decide what works for them.

My question was simple: is it risky to book before I match? The answer has been a pretty resounding "yes". So, that's cool, and I'll work with it to accommodate both my future residency, residents, and fiancée.

 

[Perrotfish]

4) I CANNOT do it during 4th year as I explained earlier. My fiancée has to devote the full time after Match to finding a new job and we need to find a place to live and are getting married in a in demand area.".

Are you planning to have your fiancée do 100% of the wedding planning when finally do this? Even if residency accommodates your wedding dates, I hope you're clear that they are not going to give you enough time in or outside of work to take care of any of this. Its a depressingly common for Chiefs to have to counsel Residents about things like personal hygiene and laundry, because the allotted 'free time' does not accommodate showers and laundry, let alone time to argue over seating arrangements.

 

[InFactotum]

Just to be clear, are you planning to have your fiancée do 100% of the wedding planning when finally do this? Even if residency accommodates your wedding dates, I hope you're clear that they are not going to give you any time in or outside of work to take care of any of this. Its a depressingly common for Chiefs to have to counsel Residents about things like personal hygiene and laundry, because the allotted 'free time' does not accommodate showers and laundry.

I'm doing EM not gen surg lol...but given that the wedding is a year away, I plan to have next to everything planned before July. Now that the venues have told me I can change the date after my deposit, I can get everything set with plenty of time to spare. Some details I'm sure will remain, but I'm the type to get this done early. My fiancée is helping a lot (I'm the fiancé, the dude), and we likely will hire a wedding planner to hash out details. And I guess I haven't made it exceedingly clear, but I do NOT expect to be given time off or special treatment for planning my wedding. I would love it if I can get my vacation scheduled for my wedding, if not, I'll move the date.

 

[atomi]

I actually think it is very very likely that the program will say yes. Like I said most people will try to be reasonable and accommodating.

Agreed. Perrotfish's program sounds unusually malignant in terms of both vacation scheduling and work hours. Most programs have at least one 2-week block of vacation (2 one week blocks total for the year, really?) and let you at least request approximately when you want to do this. Also, the bit about not being able to do laundry and personal hygiene? Unless you are 110+ hr/week, that's on you, come on. Even when I'm doing 70-80 hr/week I am still able to handle these things, work out, and spend an hour or two each night on a hobby.

Pretty sure @Perrotfish is a pediatrician...

I wouldn't "lol" at intern year in any specialty. It is a hard year, and you have a lot of people from different disciplines trying to warn you of that

...look you're getting extremely defensive because you didn't get the answers you came in wanting to hear. Intern year is hard, and requires a lot of upfront flexibility and compromise.

Also agreed. In my internship, I had a number of run-ins with off service EM interns who were, for lack of words, lazy as hell. They were always late, called in sick, continuously attempted to re-shift the patient list when it wasn't in their favor, and tried to bully on-service interns in respect to scheduling days off so they had minimal long days. I'm not saying all EM interns are like this, but again, don't be that guy. Even though you are EM, you will be doing off service rotations that will be grueling.

The answer is that you should wait to schedule your wedding until July when you have a set schedule in writing. Or better yet, push the wedding up a measly 4 months and get married in May or June like most people do.

 

[Law2Doc]

I think everything written above is ridiculous. Get married when you want to because it is an important part of your life and that should supercede everything else. Who cares what other people think; just do what you feel it best. I think its funny how everyone says you don't want to be "that guy" asking for favors but I think more importantly you don't want to be "that guy" getting a divorce 2 years later.

You have the rest of your life to be miserable as a physician. Take care of the important stuff first.

I don't know what intern year you did but to be honest if you just told (not asked) the chiefs you were going to go to Hawaii on X week to get married regardless of any scheduling issues, and if they didn't like it that's just too bad, you'd start out the year on very thin ice and I wouldn't be at all surprised if your next screw up (and everybody makes a few as an intern) wouldn't be the reason you wouldn't get a contract for a second year. You have your whole life to be with your spouse, who as mentioned will be making tons of compromises on this road, and this is going to be the first one. Intern year is the temporary "one shot" hurdle in this scenario. Do a local small local minimal effort wedding, or wait until you have more control in the schedule.

 

[RangerBob]

I don't understand why looking for a job/housing prohibits getting married in 4th year. We managed to find housing and my wife found full-time work in an area with hardly any jobs and we took 5 weeks off at the end of fourth year (we lined both up before we took our trip). Worst case scenario was she finds a job once we moved if she couldn't line one up in advance--she felt very strongly the trip was more than worth the risk of not getting a job that started day 1 when we moved. As for housing--well there's always housing to be found. It may not always be ideal, but you can move later. True, it's annoying to not have a job lined up or not have the perfect place to live, but to me the joy of your wedding far outweighs that.

It was the best trip of our lives. Seriously. And all we did was drive and camp around the country. But we got to see places we really wanted to see, and there was no stress about what I had to return to (graduation), so we couldn't have been more relaxed. I really think it's the ideal time to get married for any future physician (other than summer if you get summers off in M1/M2). Weddings and honeymoons are so much more enjoyable when you can really relax and take your time during the experience.

We're not trying to patronize you--we've been through all of this and are just trying to help. You're totally welcome to ignore our advice if it doesn't work for you--we don't know you personally and I expect a lot of our advice just won't work for you. But I do think it's worth considering the advice of those who have been in your shoes.

 

[gutonc]

I don't know what intern year you did but to be honest if you just told (not asked) the chiefs you were going to go to Hawaii on X week to get married regardless of any scheduling issues, and if they didn't like it that's just too bad, you'd start out the year on very thin ice and I wouldn't be at all surprised if your next screw up (and everybody makes a few as an intern) wouldn't be the reason you wouldn't get a contract for a second year. You have your whole life to be with your spouse, who as mentioned will be making tons of compromises on this road, and this is going to be the first one. Intern year is the temporary "one shot" hurdle in this scenario. Do a local small local minimal effort wedding, or wait until you have more control in the schedule.

He didn't do one yet. Which is why his advice is terrible.

 

[Mass Effect]

I think everything written above is ridiculous. Get married when you want to because it is an important part of your life and that should supercede everything else. Who cares what other people think; just do what you feel it best. I think its funny how everyone says you don't want to be "that guy" asking for favors but I think more importantly you don't want to be "that guy" getting a divorce 2 years later.

You have the rest of your life to be miserable as a physician. Take care of the important stuff first.

Um, what specialty are you in where you have the luxury of doing what you want when you want? Also, what other people think matters because it's these other people who will be caring for your patients when you call in sick, who will cover for you when you need your anniversary off and you've been scheduled in the ICU, the ones who will take your call when it's scheduled over that all-important weekend trip you can't miss. To dismiss them so callously will not make residency go any smoother and will potentially make an already stressful few years even worse.

Pretty sure @Perrotfish is a pediatrician...

I wouldn't "lol" at intern year in any specialty. It is a hard year, and you have a lot of people from different disciplines trying to warn you of that

Psych here (you can't find a more family/lifestyle friendly specialty and my program is probably one of the most chill) and intern year on the off-service rotations is pretty bad. No matter your specialty, intern year will kick your ass, some much worse than others.

 

[johndoe44]

Funny that in another thread you mentioned this little tidbit:



But fail to see the possible relevance of something like that in this situation.

But anyways OP...the one guy on the thread supporting you is the one who got fired from a residency. Make of that what you will.

Wow, you like to find little "tid bits" from my previous posts in a different context and use it against me and THEN you tell the OP that "your one supporter is the one who got fired." Wow, I know your screen name says southern IM but i'll bet you've never had an alabama ass whoopin'? Rest assured you pretentious ****, I am not impressed with your smartass comments. I actually resigned from my residency after my intern year and am in the process of sliding right into another one; a better one actually.

I think what you should be more concerned about is failing to see the possible relevance of quoting me and having all this time to sit around with your thumb up your ass instead of working. Since I am "unemployed" I have all the time in the world. What is your excuse? You just like to sit around on a Saturday on this forum and type? Well I do not envy you at all. Sounds like you fail to see the relevance of your own existence; but again what would I know?

 

[Perrotfish]

Wow, you like to find little "tid bits" from my previous posts in a different context and use it against me and THEN you tell the OP that "your one supporter is the one who got fired." Wow, I know your screen name says southern IM but i'll bet you've never had an alabama ass whoopin'? Rest assured you pretentious ****, I am not impressed with your smartass comments. I actually resigned from my residency after my intern year and am in the process of sliding right into another one; a better one actually.

I think what you should be more concerned about is failing to see the possible relevance of quoting me and having all this time to sit around with your thumb up your ass instead of working. Since I am "unemployed" I have all the time in the world. What is your excuse? You just like to sit around on a Saturday on this forum and type? Well I do not envy you at all. Sounds like you fail to see the relevance of your own existence; but again what would I know?

 

[dpmd]

I would just like to point out to the OP that you can make the request to be off right after you match, but a few different things may happen. You may be told that month will definitely not work (some programs have very strict rules on when you can take vacation especially during intern year). You may be told that month will work, but stuff happens that results in you not being able to go with last minute notification (I'm thinking of a smaller program that has a sick/injured cointern and you are the only one left to cover, or some similar thing. Programs don't want to be dinguses, but patients have to be covered and if you not going on vacation is the only way for that to happen don't think the fact you requested the dates and have everything planned will prevent them from telling you not to go. Not a huge risk, but something you need to know about). You may be told they can't give you an answer yet (this is the scenario I consider most likely, I know we didn't have the master schedule done by match time-the one that indicates what rotations everyone is going to be on, but it is created in a way that requires a lot of flexibility because it involves multiple specialties. The EM interns were traded around various specialties quite a bit when I was involved, and if there are rules for which rotations you are allowed to have vacation on they wouldn't be able to give you an answer until that is set at least). I imagine they might be able to give an answer before you start but you have to consider the possibility that you will find out when you actually start. If all your family and friends you plan to invite are all local to the venue then that might not matter as much as if people are going to be purchasing plane tickets and stuff in order to come to your wedding.

 

[reno911]

This is an interesting read for me. I got married during intern year (September actually) over a decade ago. Everything was planned before the match. Once I matched I called the program and requested that one of my weeks of vacation be when my wedding was scheduled. They scheduled me for an elective that month and scheduled one of my vacation weeks for then. That was it. This was before all of the new 80 hour stuff, which I guess has reduced flexibility in a lot of ways.

As I was planning the whole thing it never even occurred to me that this would be an issue. And my intern year was a very tough medicine year at a well-respected institution. I definitely worked way more than 80 hrs/week during most months.

 

[InFactotum]

The reasons behind why I want the time period of end of March until late June to find housing and allow my fiancée to find a job instead of have a wedding are valid, and it's silly to continue to push me to have it during this time period because it's simply not an option. No point in me detailing why, I think I have excellent reasons for it, but others may not agree with, and that's fine.

I totally get off service rotations in EM can be grueling, just saying EM in general is around a 60 hour work week. However, (atomi), no need for advice about not being lazy on off service rotations, as I haven't given an iota of evidence I'm a lazy individual and will be working at least as hard as anyone else on my team regardless of rotation.

To RangerBob, we have lots of travel plans in mind for end of fourth year, thank you for the suggestion. They just won't coincide with our wedding 🙂 our priorities are likely different than you and your spouse, which I think is okay.

To SouthernIM. It's clear I made my mind up about what exactly? I came asking for advice if it was safe to schedule now for October. I received advice that it wasn't. If you must know, I took that advice and told my fiancée we would likely have to postpone our plans. At that point I called multiple venues and asked about their policies, and discovered after the deposit there is flexibility in the date. So, now I can place a deposit, and sometime after match I will inquire about my vacation time and once I have a schedule I will either keep the date or find a new one that fits my schedule. So, actually, I took the advice of the thread... just turns out it's not a big deal if I don't get approved to have my vacation when I want it because I can change the date without losing my deposit.

And you're right, a lot of people probably say they will plan early and end up not doing it. I won't go into a diatribe on why I think I can safely say I will plan ahead, but no one will believe me anyways 😛 either way, has very little to do with this thread, and if I fail, don't worry! I won't ask my co-interns to carry weight for me because I didn't plan properly.

And to reno911, awesome to hear about your experience. I can only hope my program is as flexible as yours, but if not, I have a backup plan.

 

[rokshana]

I totally get off service rotations in EM can be grueling, just saying EM in general is around a 60 hour work week. However, (atomi), no need for advice about not being lazy on off service rotations, as I haven't given an iota of evidence I'm a lazy individual and will be working at least as hard as anyone else on my team regardless of rotation.

i think this perception about off service and particularly EM off service rotators is because we (at least in IM) see this fairly frequently…and it may be inherently part of why a person goes into EM…the shift work concept is seem as desirable…you work your 8, 10, or 12 hour shift (with the last hour with no new pts so you can get all your paperwork done) and you are out…which is totally the opposite of what you see in IM…you stay and do your work until your work is done…or if your patient is not doing well at the time that you are suppose to go home, you stay…guaranteed that you will not have a 60 hour work on a medicine floor month much less on an MICU month…and may EM programs have the EM interns do many of their off services months during intern year…you may very well do little in the terms of shift work months that would make scheduling time off a little easier.

 

[Law2Doc]

This is an interesting read for me. I got married during intern year (September actually) over a decade ago... This was before all of the new 80 hour stuff, which I guess has reduced flexibility in a lot of ways...

The duty hour changes change everything. Not so much the 80 hour limit, but the fact that you can't even work interns 24 hour in a row. This has thus necessitated night float and basically almost doubled the number of shifts that now need to be filled. This combined with the fact that some places require a certain number of months of ICU for everyone during intern year, and the fact that the OP likely won't be the only intern needing time off for something means nothing is "easy" anymore. It's just very hard to give an intern an extended vacation early in the year. A long weekend to do something local? Sure, that probably would be a pretty reasonable request. But a lengthy vacation to go to Hawaii? You might be asking for the moon here.

 

[RangerBob]

I'm still of the opinion 4th year is the time to aim for, and I'd say if you have travel plans already, just change them and get married! But it sounds like you guys made up your mind and there's no sense in me pushing it further--you heard my opinion and I hear you saying it won't work for you. If you say it won't work then that's that.

I will say it would've been very doable for me to get married during intern year. It wouldn't have been anywhere near as ideal as 4th year (mostly because I personally would've wanted more than a week off, and I wouldn't want to do any planning during intern year), but it would've been possible.

I was at a very flexible internship (TY, 6 months of electives, hours not too bad for internship). We weren't allowed vacation on any ward month or on ICU (~5 months of the year). We did cross-cover on elective months on the weekends, which we could swap, though usually duty hours prevented that (can't work two weekends in a row). We could only request a max of seven days off a rotation (we got 10 weekday vacation days and 5 weekend), so usually the safe bet was to assume we'd have a weekend and the weekdays off (7 days), possibly two weekends if we were really lucky with how the schedule worked out.

At my program taking vacation usually didn't shift work to the other interns/residents--most of the rotations where that would happen we couldn't take vacation, and on many of the others we were usually one-on-one with our attendings (radiology, cardiology, etc.) and the attendings knew how to carry a service on their own--they didn't rely on residents because they didn't always have one each month, so they were actually usually more efficient without an intern to teach/watch over.

My internship was a bit of an exception. I'm in my advanced program now--one of my co-residents got married back in August. He notified the program way in advance (early in internship is when he got engaged) and they scheduled him for the one and only rotation we do all of PGY2 that doesn't require the other residents to cover you (instead the attendings do). But my last month we were short a resident for two and a half weeks for one reason or another--that meant myself and the other resident had to cover the missing resident's service (ie, do 50% more work). We made do pretty well until my service was actually overflowing, at which point our fellow pitched in to help cover rounds. It sucks but we all pitch in.

The same thing also happens anytime any of us want to take a vacation. It's inevitable--we all want to use our vacation, and so will all of your interns. I don't think people are all going to hate you for taking vacation because they're going to do the exact same thing. We'll all be slightly upset at having to do more work during that week, but then we remember that's the sacrifice we have to make to get time off ourselves.

You program probably won't be as flexible as mine (but you never know), but I'm sure at some point they'll let you take a full week off. Maybe it gets assigned, maybe it doesn't, maybe there's only three months the entire year you can take vacation, maybe there's 6, maybe you only get 5 days or maybe you get 5 days bookended by golden weekends on both sides (or absolute best case scenario, you take the last week off one rotation and the first week off the next). You just won't know until you match and the schedule is out. Right now the main point we've been trying to convey and that you definitely do seem to get is there's a lot of uncertainty.

But if you're dead set on getting married during intern year you want to make sure your chief residents/program coordinator are aware of it before they make the schedule. Honestly, they are probably all going to wonder why you're getting married intern year instead of before/after, but hopefully they won't give you a hard time about it (time off is time off to them--what's it matter if it's a vacation or wedding if it's the same amount of time?). Just be polite about it--say that your fiancé (I don't know if it's one e or two e's here) and you are getting married and would like to get married x month--ideally x week (the week you've put your deposit down), but that you can be flexible if need be, etc.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Ok snowflake, you don't want to hear that it's a bad idea. So why ask? Your program may take care of you or they may not. Things like inservice exams or conferences can pull all of the other housestaff back or your PD could forget to forward the request. This may cost you a decent first impression. But hey, it will probably work out and then you can come back and say I told you so to a bunch of people who were only trying to help. Get married in May.

 

[InFactotum]

Ok snowflake, you don't want to hear that it's a bad idea. So why ask? Your program may take care of you or they may not. Things like inservice exams or conferences can pull all of the other housestaff back or your PD could forget to forward the request. This may cost you a decent first impression. But hey, it will probably work out and then you can come back and say I told you so to a bunch of people who were only trying to help. Get married in May.

"Snowflake"? Really? I think you must have not read the part where I found out I can CHANGE THE DATE after I've placed my deposit. Thus, even if **** comes up or I don't get approved for the dates I want, I can change the date and not screw anyone over. And, you really think I wouldn't follow up to make sure my request was received and confirmed? I've said from the start I'm not going to do anything that would screw anyone on my team over, and I CANNOT get married in May. Officially regret making this thread with all the demeaning remarks and assumptions about a person you have never met. For the last time, I do not expect special treatment, I'm out.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I am somewhat amazed by the negativity in this thread. In EM (or IM for that matter) this is very unlikely to be a problem. There is plenty of flexibility in the schedule. If your program knows where you need your vacation early in the schedule making process, then it usually will not be a problem. Especially for your own wedding.

So, 95% of the time, this will not be a problem. What about the other 5%:

1. Let's say 2-3 interns are all getting married the same week and request it off, that could be a problem
2. If your specilaty has an inservice exam and it's only given over 2 weeks, the exact ones you want off.

Even in these cases, we can usually find a solution.

And the OP has stated that their deposit just locks in the venue, so they can always change the dates.

 

[Doctor Bob]

My fiancée and I want to get married during October of my intern year (I'll be matching EM). Do I need to wait until after match day to safely out a deposit down on a venue? Or, are most residencies pretty understanding when it comes to this kind of thing?

There will not be an issue. Just notify your program within a week or two of matching.

I am somewhat amazed by the negativity in this thread. In EM (or IM for that matter) this is very unlikely to be a problem. ... Even in these cases, we can usually find a solution.

Yea. It seemed like a no-brainer to me. When we've had a complex scheduling issue with multiple residents out at the same time... we just ran the department with only attendings.

OP, just don't expect to have an extended vacation. Figure 2 days on either side of the wedding day with a travel day on each end. More than that and you might be asking for a little much. But a 7 day block is reasonable. People tend to be understanding about things like your own personal wedding, or birth of a child.

On a tangent, what I don't understand are people who get all angry about not being given time off to go to a wedding of a friend or third cousin or something. I knew someone who wanted to go to 5 weddings in one month during residency (all for non-family people) and got upset when the department said they couldn't have that much time off.

 

[Raryn]

I am somewhat amazed by the negativity in this thread. In EM (or IM for that matter) this is very unlikely to be a problem. There is plenty of flexibility in the schedule. If your program knows where you need your vacation early in the schedule making process, then it usually will not be a problem. Especially for your own wedding.

So, 95% of the time, this will not be a problem. What about the other 5%:

1. Let's say 2-3 interns are all getting married the same week and request it off, that could be a problem
2. If your specilaty has an inservice exam and it's only given over 2 weeks, the exact ones you want off.

Even in these cases, we can usually find a solution.

And the OP has stated that their deposit just locks in the venue, so they can always change the dates.

It really is program dependent more than anything else.

At my program (IM), it would be absolutely no big deal. As long as the request wasn't for a wedding on Christmas or something, the program would just schedule the OP on an elective that block and probably give them two weeks off with the surrounding weekends (16 days total), though that would be half of their vacation for the year.

On the other hand, if the OP went to the FM program at the same institution, they'd probably be SOL. The FM program simply assigns vacation time. No requests involved.

 

[drcrispmd]

Since you will be able to change the date, you should be fine. Just let your PD know as soon as possible that you are planning a wedding in Oct but you can change the date if needed. My intern year we were asked if there were any big events that we needed off shortly after the match. Let him know how many days you would like to take. We could not take more that 5 days in a month rotation Monday-Friday (don't know if you are planning extra days for honeymoon or not). On the interview trail you could ask about vacation days and how they are scheduled. It could give you a heads up how easy or difficult it may be. Some will say this is a terrible idea that programs will see this as you only concerned about vacation. I don't agree, unless this is the only question you ask. I was asked this many times interviewing because all programs do it differently. I knew one residency that scheduled all 3 weeks together and it was assigned (which to me would be horrible). Also ask about any possible calls the weekend before and after (want to cover all the basis). Good Luck!

 

[shopsteward]

Just to say to OP, I'd be less worried about the ability to change the date on the venue and more worried about the cost of plane tickets: the cheapest tickets are usually the ones with no flexibility on changing dates. It might be worth mentioning early to your guests that the date may change, so that they (and you) can plan ticket purchasing appropriately.

The other thing is that if you do have to change the date, it could be very inconvenient for your guests, and some of them might end up not being able to attend. (Of course, if changing the date ends up being inconvenient for your fiancée's new job, that could be even more problematical for you than annoying your family and friends, or causing them extra expense, because you have changed the date.)

 

[Apollyon]

I am somewhat amazed by the negativity in this thread.

I have no data about anyone on this thread (apart from what some may have posted at some time or another), but I wonder, abstractly, how many of these folks being so negative are divorced or unhappily married, or want to get married and can't find a co-conspirator. This is like crying at weddings: that is something on which psychiatrists - who disagree with each other on EVERYTHING - agree - people cry at weddings due to thinking about their own failings in love and marriage.

 

[cognitus]

Not a terrible idea. I got married a few weeks into my intern year. I put down the deposit before I submitted my residency application. As soon as I matched, I notified the program that I would be getting married and the dates I needed off. I reminded them again seconds after they sent out vacation requests. I was fully accomodated. As long as you notify the program as soon as you match, you'll be ok.

 

[Gastrapathy]

That's some amazing internet psychology. Maybe some of us have just witnessed or experienced capricious leadership and are trying to save him pain.

My internship was before the work hour rules. They didn't let someone go for a death in the family. Others clearly come at this from a similar set of experiences. I'm not negative about marriage.

 

[j4pac]

PGY-2 is the new internship. With the new hour restrictions PGY-1 isn't what it use to be...albeit still difficult. Bro there is no good time to get married except for MS4 and maybe later in residency. I would never suggest delaying 2yrs...so if you can't do it MS4...stick with your current plan and do it as an intern.

 

[Follow the Cairns]

I have no data about anyone on this thread (apart from what some may have posted at some time or another), but I wonder, abstractly, how many of these folks being so negative are divorced or unhappily married, or want to get married and can't find a co-conspirator. This is like crying at weddings: that is something on which psychiatrists - who disagree with each other on EVERYTHING - agree - people cry at weddings due to thinking about their own failings in love and marriage.

I made an earlier statement that I did not consider to be overtly negative, but rather, cautionary based on my almost 20 years of experience being a partner/spouse of a physician. Perhaps in that initial post, the OP interpreted it as too negative, or that I was making assumptions about his soon to be wife. If so, I apologize. In fact, OP came back and defended both himself and her, which I totally respect.

In any event, I have always had a fantastic relationship and now marriage, and most of the people I know who are married to physicians have as well. When my husband did his residency in a competitive surgical specialty 10+ years ago, well over half of the residents were married, and with only one exception, all still are. None of the spouses are M.D.'s (though many of us have worked in health care) and contrary to what some PPs have opined, you don't have to be another physician to "get" the stressors and challenges that you all face on a daily basis. Lots of people have incredibly stressful careers. What it does take to be a good spouse is a strong sense of self, intelligence, ability to handle things on your own and a personality that doesn't quickly devolve into being a nagging shrew about your physician partner and his/her work demands.

But, I do agree that there are some posts on here that express a pretty dismal view of marriage and options for finding a good partner out there, and I suspect those beliefs would be present regardless of what career we were talking about. Something along the lines of "misery loves company", I suppose.