Preempting the inevitible rankings thread

[IMrankhelp]

I can already see that the forums are filling up with the "where should I apply threads." The following are "rankings" that have been posted in various threads on SDN. They are not my own.

This will inevitably bother people as they always do. Take them for what they are, extremely subjective. The exact number listed for a program does not really mean anything. The reality is that there really is not a ton of difference between the number 7 program and the number 12. This will however help give a VERY GENERAL sense of what some of the "top" programs are. I found it helpful as I was applying to identify some programs I may not have otherwise thought of.

If youre trying to assess yourself, if you want a top 10/15 program you should probably have >230, strong clinical grades, strong letters, and some research. At the end of the day, it is like $10 and an extra few button clicks to apply, so you might as well apply if you're interested in a program.

Goodluck with ERAS and the interview season. There are many wonderful medicine programs around the country not listed below, and the key is to find the one you feel most comfortable at and you think is the best fit for you.

_________________________________________________

The "Big 8"

Hopkins, MGH, BWH, UCSF, Penn, Duke, Columbia, Michigan
_________________________________________________
1. JHU
2. MGH
3. UCSF
4. Duke
5. Penn
6. B&W
7. Washington U.
8. UCLA
9. U. Washington
10. U. Michigan
11. UT-SW
12. Columbia
13. Baylor College
14. Cornell
15. BIDMC
16. Stanford
17. Vanderbilt
18. U. Chicago
19. Northwestern
20. Yale
21. Mt. Sinai
22. UPitt

______________________________________________
1. JHU
2. BWH
3. MGH
4. UCSF
5. Columbia
6. UPenn
7. Duke
8. Stanford
9. Washington U
10. U of Washington
11. U of Michigan
12. UTSW
13. Cornell
14. UCLA
15. Northwestern
16. BIDMC
17. Mayo
18. Emory
19. U of Chicago
20. Yale
21. Mt. Sinai
22. Vanderbilt
23. UPitt
24. Baylor
25. OHSU
26. NYU
27. UAB
28. UNC
29. Boston U
30. UCSD

_________________________________________________
Top Tier (there's no point to splitting hairs here, since
no doors will be closed for fellowship):
JHU
MGH
BWH
UCSF

Tier 1b:
Penn
Columbia
Duke

Tier 2:
UCLA
UMichigan
UChicago
WashU
Stanford
UTSW
UW
Cornell
BIDMC

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[RonBurgandy]

"The Big 8" was a joke. You're supposed to omit hopkins, insert you're own program, and then name bw, mgh, ucsf, plus any others you want, and then act nonchalant like everyone knows these are "the big 8". It was meant to piss off moonglow.

 

[jdh71]

you're going to catch more hell

 

[jdh71]

I kind of think of the "top tier" as comprising the top 25-30 programs, with the big elite programs at the top of that tier. I think giving numbers to the programs sends a wrong kind of message, so if there isn't a huge difference between number 8 and 12 then why give them numbers. This is a general gestalt and coressponds more to academic reputation than anything else, because you will not learn how to manage a chest pain r/o any better at Hopkins than you will at no-academic name community program.

The Elite programs are: Hopkins, UCSF, B&W, and Mass Gen

After that the next bunch of programs in the top tier has programs like Penn, Columbia, Vandy, and Duke which no one disagrees about, but then rounding out the rest of the top 25-30 with programs like Pitt, Oregon, and Iowa for instance that some like to lump in the top tier and others are not as impressed with these programs and like to place them as "high mid tier". Blah. Blah. Blah?

So, now that, that has been said, we will all still go around and start the ranking argument anyway. Good luck to all who enter the fray. I think this year I stay out (but I make no promises).

 

[jdh71]

no one's gunna bite?!

Ok, here goes because I want drama, not the thread to die!!

The elites . . . Hopkins, UCSF, B&W, MassGen and if you were to force me to rank them in some sort of order of academic rep I like . . . Hopkins > UCSF > B&W > MGH (oh no he di'int!!)

1. Hopkins
2. UCSF
3. B&W
4. MGH

Let be honest though folks, landing a spot at any of these institutions, provided you are not a ****** you will be able to write your own academic meal ticket to fellowship and all of the research goodies. (I kind of think it's a bit of a waste to go to one of these places and then go into private practice . . . just one man's humble opinion)

The rest I'm going to throw into a list in general order of my personal opinion of academic reputation, meaning that between the top program and the bottom program on my list the bigger the difference in academic reputation IMHO, the closer any two programs are on the list the less of a difference in academic rep, and if they are right next to each other, you could probably flip them and it wouldn't gore my ox any really. With that said . . .

5. Penn
6. Duke
7. Columbia
8. Vandy
9. U of Washington
10. WashU
11. Stanford
12. BID
13. Mayo
14. UCLA
15. Michigan
16. Cornell
17. UofChicago
18. SWern
19. UAB
20. Emory
21. Baylor
22. UCSD
23. OHSU
24. Iowa
25. Wisconsin
26. Pitt
27. NWern
28. Yale
29. UNC
30. Minnesota

I will freely admit more of a west/midwest/south bias.

And there you have it kiddos. The final word.

 

[jdh71]

A few academic programs I think deserve an honorable mention . . .

Utah
UTSanAntonio
Indiana
Wake Forest
Virgina
VCU
MUSC
BostonU

A couple of "community" programs with a lot of academics

Cedars
Methodist (Houston)
Cleavland Clinic

 

[jdh71]

no one yet?

 

[RonBurgandy]

I'll play JDH.

First, all of these lists are wrong. They all have Hopkins number one, and we all know it's not even one of The Big 8 (MGH, BW, Yale, Penn, Columbia, UCSF, Duke, Wash U), and it produces people like Moonglow. It's a top 9 program, and that's been well established on this board.

Second, Yale is way overrated on this list, you've got it in the top 30, but really it's like a top 80 program, behind brown and dartmouth for other ivies. Everyone knows that it's way overrated because it's med school is a top 10 school, and USNews rates its IM program in the top 10 every year (which is just a bogus reflection of NIH dollars, and has nothing to do with the actual training, which is notoriously terrible by people in the know). You should just remove it.

Third, UPitt should be way higher in this list because their PD is hot. That definitely negates the fact that it's in one of the lamest cities in the country, and is close to nothing cool.

Fourth, let's be serious Michigan is a great program, but every ***** and their pet monkey gets an interview there, because who the hell wants to go to ann arbor? Plus, everyone I know who matched there had it like third on their list, and was only pseudo-psyched to go there. At least they can tell other people it's in "The Big 8".

Fifth, JDH, some guy posted the list below a little while ago, and it's only a little similar to the list you just posted. Oh yeah, that person was you!

"1. Hopkins
2. UCSF
3. B&W
4. MGH
5. BID
6. WashU
7. Cornell
8. Penn
9. Duke
10. UCLA
11. Mayo - Rochester
12. UAB
13. Michigan
14. Wahington Uof
15. OHSU
16. Emory
17. TexasSW
18. Baylor
19. Yale
20. Chicago Uof
21. Columbia
22. Stanford
23. Vanderbilt
24. North Carolina
25. Wisconsin
26. Iowa
27. NWern
28. Colorado"

 

[jdh71]

I'll play JDH.

First, all of these lists are wrong. They all have Hopkins number one, and we all know it's not even one of The Big 8 (MGH, BW, Yale, Penn, Columbia, UCSF, Duke, Wash U), and it produces people like Moonglow. It's a top 9 program, and that's been well established on this board.

Second, Yale is way overrated on this list, you've got it in the top 30, but really it's like a top 80 program, behind brown and dartmouth for other ivies. Everyone knows that it's way overrated because it's med school is a top 10 school, and USNews rates its IM program in the top 10 every year (which is just a bogus reflection of NIH dollars, and has nothing to do with the actual training, which is notoriously terrible by people in the know). You should just remove it.

Third, UPitt should be way higher in this list because their PD is hot. That definitely negates the fact that it's in one of the lamest cities in the country, and is close to nothing cool.

Fourth, let's be serious Michigan is a great program, but every ***** and their pet monkey gets an interview there, because who the hell wants to go to ann arbor? Plus, everyone I know who matched there had it like third on their list, and was only pseudo-psyched to go there. At least they can tell other people it's in "The Big 8".

Fifth, JDH, some guy posted the list below a little while ago, and it's only a little similar to the list you just posted. Oh yeah, that person was you!

"1. Hopkins
2. UCSF
3. B&W
4. MGH
5. BID
6. WashU
7. Cornell
8. Penn
9. Duke
10. UCLA
11. Mayo - Rochester
12. UAB
13. Michigan
14. Wahington Uof
15. OHSU
16. Emory
17. TexasSW
18. Baylor
19. Yale
20. Chicago Uof
21. Columbia
22. Stanford
23. Vanderbilt
24. North Carolina
25. Wisconsin
26. Iowa
27. NWern
28. Colorado"

Exactly the kind of response I was looking for!!

EDIT: Change my mind a bit. I've been simmering in the academic world. I am a much more wise and learned list maker now, and all the nOObs on teh forumz shall bow to my wizdom.

EDIT #2: I went looking for that old thread and couldn't find it, but then I am a forum search ******.

EDIT #3: You probably couldn't pay me enough to live in Michigan, though I think their program still carries a lot of academic spooge for the time being

 

[EaglesPA]

Jdh, Ronburgandy and co - you have it all wrong. I have personally had dinner with the IM program directors at Hopkins (I call him C-Wise), UCSF(I call him holy high), MGH (I call him H-biggie), BWH (I call him J-kid), Duke(I call her D-mac), Penn (I call her L-boss) and several more and based on this vast experience, I have THE rankings.

1a. Hopkins
1b. MGH
1c. BWH
1d. UCSF
****************************
5. Penn
6. Duke
7. Columbia
8. WashU
9. Michigan
****************************
10. UWash
11. UCLA
12. Mount Sinai
13. Yale
14. Cornell
15. BIDMC
16. UTSW
17. Stanford
18. Chicago
19. Northwestern
20. Mayo
21. Vanderbilt
22. Emory
*****************************
23. OHSU
24. UAB
25. Baylor
26. Pittsburgh
27. Virginia
28. NYU
29. Colorado
30. UNC
31. Brown

 

[indiamacbean]

1. Ucsf

 

[jdh71]

1. Ucsf

I wonder where indiamacbean is doing residency? He never mentions it.

 

[indiamacbean]

don't hate just because you didn't train at the best residency program in the whole entire world.

actually I think probably any of the top thirty or so would do. I mostly think the "ranking" concept is a steaming pile of crap. I do happen to like mine and just wanted to salt the wound a bit to see who took the bait. congrats.

By the way the correct tense is "did" as in he "did" his residency at UC but now he is "doing" other things like making some money, sleeping and enjoying life.

 

[SaoTo]

In my opinioin:
BIDMC = MGH > BWH > BU
UCSF = UCLA >UCSD
Vanderbilt = Hopkins > Duke = UNC
Columbia = Cornell = MSSM = UPenn
UMich = WashU = UWash > UPitt

 

[jdh71]

don't hate just because you didn't train at the best residency program in the whole entire world.

actually I think probably any of the top thirty or so would do. I mostly think the "ranking" concept is a steaming pile of crap. I do happen to like mine and just wanted to salt the wound a bit to see who took the bait. congrats.

By the way the correct tense is "did" as in he "did" his residency at UC but now he is "doing" other things like making some money, sleeping and enjoying life.

I wonder why elitist pricks always think you're hating?

UCSF amazing place, hands down.

Glad you are done. Peace.

 

[indiamacbean]

hey JDH71, why don't you choose which you'd like to be. I am personally sort of partial to the horse/donkey thing but if you felt strongly I could be swayed.

why do I think you're hating? because you are. Me being an elitist p***k or not has nothing to do with it. Why don't you stop personally insulting and swearing at people on SDN and violating the terms of service of this website.

My original post was in jest but I guess it ruffled some feathers. sorry about that.

--------------

Back to the task at hand:
1. UCSF

 

[jdh71]

hey JDH71, why don't you choose which you'd like to be. I am personally sort of partial to the horse/donkey thing but if you felt strongly I could be swayed.

why do I think you're hating? because you are. Me being an elitist p***k or not has nothing to do with it. Why don't you stop personally insulting and swearing at people on SDN and violating the terms of service of this website.

My original post was in jest but I guess it ruffled some feathers. sorry about that.

--------------

Back to the task at hand:
1. UCSF

Hey, indiamacbean why don't you go outside and play hide and go **** yourself!

I promise I have zero hate for anyone at, or who went to UCSF, simply because they went to UCSF. That would be ****ing asinine. Your post was in jest, and so was mine asshat. You name drop UCSF as your first post in just about any thread on this board. I think it's cute. There's no hate.

But as long as we are going to start the "assuming motivations game" . . . let me bust out some wicked pop-psych and assume you've got problems with an obvious inferiority complex. An inferiority complex so big and disturbing you feel the need to name drop UCSF any chance you get in the hope that people will feed your severely damaged, burnt, and dirty ego (perhaps your father didn't love you, or maybe your mommy sat you on the potty backwards). There, now wasn't that fun!

 

[VJWDO]

Just had to jump in on this hilarious D!(k measuring contest!!!

The whole rankings thing is just outright lame. Do you really think someone is going to be like "OOOOH you went to hopkins and not UCSF, OOOOOH."

No they will see where you went and if in general it is a good program they may rank you higher.

Remember there are people like me who went to a crap college, a DO school, a totally unranked university IM residency program that no one even knows the location of, and still gets into Duke for fellowship.

That's right I said DUKE B*****S

(always wanted to do that, sorry)

HAHA.

I love the replies above though, very fun!

jdh71 just loves stirring up ****, but this place would be crap without him!

Keep up the mental masturbation guys. (is masturbation a bad word??)

Guess I will see!!!

 

[jdh71]

Just had to jump in on this hilarious D!(k measuring contest!!!

The whole rankings thing is just outright lame. Do you really think someone is going to be like "OOOOH you went to hopkins and not UCSF, OOOOOH."

No they will see where you went and if in general it is a good program they may rank you higher.

Remember there are people like me who went to a crap college, a DO school, a totally unranked university IM residency program that no one even knows the location of, and still gets into Duke for fellowship.

That's right I said DUKE B*****S

(always wanted to do that, sorry)

HAHA.

I love the replies above though, very fun!

jdh71 just loves stirring up ****, but this place would be crap without him!

Keep up the mental masturbation guys. (is masturbation a bad word??)

Guess I will see!!!

Meh. We all know you're right. It's all about academic reputation generally, and if we were going to do it, we might as well because it was going to happen by October anyway. I seriously doubt someone at no-name IM program knows less about how to manage chest r/o than someone at Hopkins. General medicine, clinically, will not be better at a program simply because it has an "academic reputation". It's really more of a numbers game since medicine really seems to admit like 10 diagnosises (sp?) on any regular basis.

 

[SaoTo]

Just had to jump in on this hilarious D!(k measuring contest!!!

The whole rankings thing is just outright lame. Do you really think someone is going to be like "OOOOH you went to hopkins and not UCSF, OOOOOH."

No they will see where you went and if in general it is a good program they may rank you higher.

Remember there are people like me who went to a crap college, a DO school, a totally unranked university IM residency program that no one even knows the location of, and still gets into Duke for fellowship.

That's right I said DUKE B*****S

(always wanted to do that, sorry)

HAHA.

I love the replies above though, very fun!

jdh71 just loves stirring up ****, but this place would be crap without him!

Keep up the mental masturbation guys. (is masturbation a bad word??)

Guess I will see!!!

Congrats on matching to Duke Cards from an unranked IM program! Remember though, Duke is the **** but it is no JHU, MGH, BWH, UCSF or USC.

 

[jdh71]

Congrats on matching to Duke Cards from an unranked IM program! Remember though, Duke is the **** but it is no JHU, MGH, BWH, UCSF or USC.

Duke also had more than one fellowship program

 

[adam6]

EDIT #3: You probably couldn't pay me enough to live in Michigan, though I think their program still carries a lot of academic spooge for the time being

awww...Michigan is kinda like that Seinfeld episode: if you take it to the right restaurant and the lighting is just perfect...

and, no, they are not paying me enough but I guess they convinced me to stay ha ha ha

 

[Art Vandelay]

Sorry, to be clear, did you get a cardiology fellowship at Duke or an advanced fellowship?

 

[VJWDO]

Sorry, to be clear, did you get a cardiology fellowship at Duke or an advanced fellowship?

Not sure how you got cardiology out of my post. I matched into pulmonary/critical care.

 

[VJWDO]

Deleted due to feelings of pettiness.

 

[confuse]

Could someone also kindly post the 30th-50th rank for the more average student? Thanks.

 

[gutonc]

A brief reminder to please keep things civil.

 

[jdh71]

A brief reminder to please keep things civil.

Don't start getting lame on us since you're all moddy, moddy, mod now

 

[gutonc]

Don't start getting lame on us since you're all moddy, moddy, mod now

Well...I was enjoying the thread up until about halfway back. Just sayin'.

 

[RonBurgandy]

Could someone also kindly post the 30th-50th rank for the more average student? Thanks.

I don't see much point in ranking programs between 30-50, because really, any university program is good, and it becomes such a matter of taste that you should just go by where you want to live. My advice is to pick a location first, find which programs appeal to you on interview day, and rank accordingly.

Also, you probably don't need to hear this, but the rankings posted here are hugely subjective. JDH is kind of like the godfather of studentdoc so he has a lot of sway, but for all we know he's just some guy sitting in a clown suit somewhere in the mid-west, posting on student doc in-between sessions of chat roulette. My med school program director, who's advised people for years, had a different opinion than student doc. Who's to say who is right?

I'll also point out that sometimes what seems to be the consensus from studentdoc can disguise a program's actual competitiveness. For instance, Northwestern seemed really hard to match to from my school, but some of the supposed 'top 10' seemed much much easier. Same with BID. Also Columbia was tough to get an interview at last year, while a lot Columbia rejects got interviews and matched at Duke. It probably varies a lot by the relationship a program has with your school, but it may also be that there are a lot of good researchers at these higher thought of programs, but in reality not as many people actually want to train there.

That said, making lists is fun and to some extent they're helpful.

Anyway, so now that you're done rolling your eyes, here are a handful programs that may not get as much attention, but impressed either me or a some of my friends on interview day:

Tufts, Brown, Dartmouth, Vermont, Rochester, Case, Jefferson, Minnesota, UVa.

I'm sure other people can name more.

 

[jdh71]

Also, you probably don't need to hear this, but the rankings posted here are hugely subjective. JDH is kind of like the godfather of studentdoc so he has a lot of sway, but for all we know he's just some guy sitting in a clown suit somewhere in the mid-west, posting on student doc in-between sessions of chat roulette.

(eating cheetos, drinking Monster energy two at a time)

Take the rankings with as much salt as you need. Its really difficult to put together any sort of objective rankings. Mostly because it doesn't really exist in any sort of strict sense . . . not really.

Anyway, so now that you're done rolling your eyes, here are a handful programs that may not get as much attention, but impressed either me or a some of my friends on interview day:

Tufts, Brown, Dartmouth, Vermont, Rochester, Case, Jefferson, Minnesota, UVa.

I'm sure other people can name more.

Here's mine from earlier . . .

A few academic programs I think deserve an honorable mention . . .

Utah
UTSanAntonio
Indiana
Wake Forest
Virgina
VCU
MUSC
BostonU

A couple of "community" programs with a lot of academics

Cedars
Methodist (Houston)
Cleavland Clinic

 

[confuse]

Hey thanks alot. These kinds of list help me put things into perspective. I'm applying to strictly east coast programs from Philly down to Miami. Are GW, Georgetown, VCU, MUSC, Jefferson, UF Gainesville pretty much equivalent to each other or does any of them stand out? I also have no clue about what community programs are good so please share.

 

[jdh71]

Hey thanks alot. These kinds of list help me put things into perspective. I'm applying to strictly east coast programs from Philly down to Miami. Are GW, Georgetown, VCU, MUSC, Jefferson, UF Gainesville pretty much equivalent to each other or does any of them stand out? I also have no clue about what community programs are good so please share.

I know nothing about D.C. programs. Mostly because I'm strange quirky personality, I would want to live there last of any of the big metropolitan centers, including houston and I think houston is a crap hole.

With that said, I know a few people that interviewed at both VCU and MUSC and really liked it. Gainesville is kind of like a diamond in the rough. I don't think many people know about it outside of FL, and it's solid all the way around (I may show a bit of bias since I'm very impressed by their pulmonary division on top of everything else [their Chair is a pulm guy too])

 

[himanshu82]

Georgetown and Jefferson are solid programs in nice areas. The residents are pretty well trained.
I would agree that UF is a very good program that is not as well recognized. Decent fellowship matches and overall good reputation.

I think MUSC and VCU would probably be a step under those programs.

 

[RonBurgandy]

IMPassion's rankings, whoever the hell he or she is:

"There's no definitive ranking. Fit is most important (geography, research opportunities, mentorship, feel, culture of program). Medicine is a very long road and bad fit only leads to burnout.

Strictly by academic reputation: There's no way to rank these individually. Any of these programs have the resources to offer comparable training to a serious resident.

Tier 1: UCSF, Hopkins, MGH, Brigham and Women's

Tier 1A: Penn, Duke, Stanford, UCLA, University of Washington, Michigan, WashU St. Louis, Columbia

Tier 1B: Cornell, Mayo Clinic, University of Chicago, BID, Yale

Other great programs (not exhaustive): Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Emory, UCSD, Mr. Sinai, NYU, UT Southwestern, Pittsburgh

But reputation is far from everything. From my experience, fit at the end of the day is what will make one most successful. Go for fit, not just ranking. Fit will more than tip the scale and make you more successful than a subjective ranking once you're at this level of programs.

As for clinical training, any one of dozens of programs in the U.S. from academic to community programs could offer excellent clinical training."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

ScaredShizzles Full Post for his rankings, which have already been posted.

"Well as you all know by now, I've been spending waay too much time analyzing prestige and fellowship placement potential of various im programs. Truly the unfortunate workings of an idle mind with nothing better to do at the moment. I present a final top 30 list, which I think is the result of a fair amount of scientific/objective measures, although I'm sure most will disagree with the measures that I looked at. Keep in mind that I didn't apply to a few of these and did not interview at even more. I didn't want to post this earlier, lest my dumb attempt at an objective list should sway one's last minute ROL decisions, which really should be more about subjective comfort at the programs you interviewed at.

I basically looked at three factors: 1. competitiveness (which I judged by the percentage of residents in the program who hailed from the USNWR top 12 med schools (the research ranking.) I know this is a really bad way to measure it, but I was limited in terms of other objective measures that I could have used. 2. percentage of residents (over the last 3 years) who go on to what I consider the three most competitive IM subspecialties (Cards, GI, and H/O--> I know allergy-immuno is competitive by some measures, but not too many people are really interested in that-->it is an easy way to increase earning potential considerably though without decrease quality of life.) and 3. Of those residents who do go on to those subspecialties, what percentage are at placed at top 10 fellowship programs. (I did not strictly define the top 10, but I loosely based it on USNWR reputation rank of the hospitals, as well as what I saw people on SDN applying for fellowships thought. )

1. JHU
2. BWH
3. MGH
4. UCSF
5. Columbia
6. UPenn
7. Duke
8. Stanford
9. Washington U
10. U of Washington
11. U of Michigan
12. UTSW
13. Cornell
14. UCLA
15. Northwestern
16. BIDMC
17. Mayo
18. Emory
19. U of Chicago
20. Yale
21. Mt. Sinai
22. Vanderbilt
23. UPitt
24. Baylor
25. OHSU
26. NYU
27. UAB
28. UNC
29. Boston U
30. UCSD

Others considered: Maryland, CCF, UVa, U of Colorado, Ohio State, Case, U of Iowa, U of Minnesota, UW-Madison.


If this exercise taught me anything, there are really a lot of good programs out there. Even if you're not so fortunate to match to one of these 30 or so programs, if you really stand out at another residency program, you can still do quite well in terms of fellowship. And obviously some of the other programs are really fantastic at education. Geography is a huge factor in terms of fellowship placement though.

And finally, I know a ton of people will disagree with my ranking strongly. But I did try to do it objectively, but just keep in mind what factors I was looking at. If you disagree strongly with the list, it is probably because you disagree with what I took into account."

 

[jdh71]

Well...I was enjoying the thread up until about halfway back. Just sayin'.

 

[gutonc]

Dinocorn...sweet!

 

[Mr.Bip]

Just wanted to bump this thread because it made me laugh, cry, and in the end, taught me something about myself.

 

[DrVanNostran]

Double bump. This thread is just to much fun.

 

[jdh71]

Double bump. This thread is just to much fun.

 

[DrVanNostran]

 

[jdh71]

well played sir!

 

[Deferoxamine]

Unfortunately, I'm probably only stirring the pot by posting these, but I figure they belong in here. This season, they played NO role in which programs I decided to apply to, or how I decided on my Rank Order List. However, I imagine a few people would be curious:

U.S. News 2010 Internal Medicine Department Rankings

1.) Hopkins
2.) "Harvard" - alol (Brigham, MGH, & BIDMC as a monstrous aggregate?)
3.) UCSF
4.) UPenn
5.) Duke
6.) U of Washington
7.) Michigan
8.) Wash U. St. Louis
9.) Columbia
10.) Yale
11.) Stanford
12.) Vanderbilt
13.) UCLA
14.) Pittsburgh
15.) UT Southwestern
16.) U Alabama - Birmingham
17.) Mayo
tie.) Northwestern
19.) Emory
20.) Iowa

Gripe all you want about how "bogus" these are, but I don't think this is THAT far off. Just throw in Cornell and UChicago somewhere in the middle for completeness.

 

[HarryGary]

Yeah, US News really isn't that crazy. Per their methodology, it's how medical school deans view a school's internal medicine program, whether it is for a school's students or residents it doesn't say, but given that it's the same faculty, resources, and facilities, they should roughly correlate.

Not going to try and number programs, but I think you can group them like this below:

The Elite programs: BW, MGH, JH, UCSF, with Penn, Columbia, and Duke somewhere close behind (with the latter three's residents pointing out that some would actually prefer them to the other four)

Elite non-east coast programs (regional powerhouses that have a national reputation among MDs, but not necessarily among the lay population): michigan, UW, wash U, maybe a UTSW

IVY-league type programs that aren't quite super elite: Cornell, Stanford, Yale, BID, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, U. Chicago. (The current stanford thread notwithstanding, it's still very well-respected)

+/- any academic program that is currently in or out of fashion on SDN.

---
If you train at any of these programs you will be able to have an academic career and have easy access to a fellowship provided you are not a dirty SOB.

The one caveat being that if you don't train at any of these programs, you will still be able to have an academic career and have easy access to a fellowship provided you are not a dirty SOB.

 

[jdh71]

Yeah, US News really isn't that crazy. Per their methodology, it's how medical school deans view a school's internal medicine program, whether it is for a school's students or residents it doesn't say, but given that it's the same faculty, resources, and facilities, they should roughly correlate.

Not going to try and number programs, but I think you can group them like this below:

The Elite programs: BW, MGH, JH, UCSF, with Penn, Columbia, and Duke somewhere close behind (with the latter three's residents pointing out that some would actually prefer them to the other four)

Elite non-east coast programs (regional powerhouses that have a national reputation among MDs, but not necessarily among the lay population): michigan, UW, wash U, maybe a UTSW

IVY-league type programs that aren't quite super elite: Cornell, Stanford, Yale, BID, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, U. Chicago. (The current stanford thread notwithstanding, it's still very well-respected)

+/- any academic program that is currently in or out of fashion on SDN.

---
If you train at any of these programs you will be able to have an academic career and have easy access to a fellowship provided you are not a dirty SOB.

The one caveat being that if you don't train at any of these programs, you will still be able to have an academic career and have easy access to a fellowship provided you are not a dirty SOB.

 

[DrVanNostran]

Which of these 3 programs would you give the nod to in terms of national rep among fellowship PDs: Loyola vs Rush vs UIC?

From looking at the match lists, I feel that: Rush>UIC>Loyola. I am sure training would be great at all 3, but just want your opinion. Thanks

 

[jdh71]

Which of these 3 programs would you give the nod to in terms of national rep among fellowship PDs: Loyola vs Rush vs UIC?

From looking at the match lists, I feel that: Rush>UIC>Loyola. I am sure training would be great at all 3, but just want your opinion. Thanks

I'd probably say they all carry pretty even weight more like

Rush = UIC = Loyola

But if you're a chicago kid, and if you're scores and CV are good enough for one, they are good enough for all three. Check them out, and rank them how you like them.

 

[indiamacbean]

may this thread never die...

 

[chitown82]

Which of these 3 programs would you give the nod to in terms of national rep among fellowship PDs: Loyola vs Rush vs UIC?

From looking at the match lists, I feel that: Rush>UIC>Loyola. I am sure training would be great at all 3, but just want your opinion. Thanks

I agree that they are all very similar but I'd give an edge to UIC over Rush/Loyola simply because they have more research opportunities than the other two.

 

[Deferoxamine]

may this thread never die...